Transcripts For CSPAN3 Justice Department Officials Testify On Foreign Agent Registration... 20170727

Senator Chuck Grassley is the committee chair. This part of the hearing is about 90 minutes. Today, the committee will examine the Justice Departments enforcement of the Foreign Agents registration act. I want to thank the witnesses here today for working with the committee to schedule this hearing. I know that some of you even had to change your travel plans, and i want you to know that the committee appreciates your cooperation. We had to postpone this hearing while trying to schedule two new witnesses and obtain the cooperation of a third who was first invited on july 5th. It is unfortunate when uncooperative witnesses cause unnecessary inconvenience for those of you who are easy to work with. After a failure to negotiate with the committee in good faith, i issued a subpoena with cooperation with senator feinstein to simpson for his appearance today. I withdrew the subpoena after mr. Simpson agreed to a tr transcribed staff interview about, number one, his involvement in creating the trump dossier and interactions with the fbi. And number two, his alleged work with the unregistered Foreign Agents who met with the trump family and campaign officials. Regarding mr. Manafort, negotiations for a similar agreement that Ranking Member feinstein and i were working on with him broke down monday night, and i issued a subpoena for his appearance. On tuesday night, following consultation with the Ranking Member and a document production from mr. Manafort, i withdrew the subpoena and we continued negotiations for a future transcribed interview. With the respect to mr. Trump, he agreed early on to cooperate, produce documents, and do a voluntary transcribed interview, so no subpoena was necessary in that case. So these three, then, will not appear on panel two today. Now, todays topic is as important now as it was in 1938 when congress enacted the law. There are two qualifications to be considered a Foreign Agent under the Foreign Agents registration act. The first is working directly or indirectly for a foreign principle. A foreign principle can be a Foreign Government, Political Party, corporation or a single individual. The second requirement is involvement in a political activity to influence u. S. Policy, either as a publicity agent or a lobbyist among others. The basic idea is that a foreign propaganda should not lurk in the shadows but should be fully transparent. The Foreign Agents registration act does that by requiring agents to register with the Justice Department. People should know if Foreign Governments, political parties, or other foreign interests are trying to influence u. S. Policy or Public Opinion. Given efforts to influence our elections, this law has never been more important. Unfortunately, it appears that the Justice Department and the fbi have been seriously lax in enforcing the Foreign Agents registration act and for a long time. In the past 12 years, the department has only sent 178 letters to people it believes should register as a Foreign Agent. Thats only 15 letters a year. Now, compare those 15 letters with what the Justice Department thinks that i send more. They think i send more oversight letters than that in one week. Only nine people in the entire Justice Department work full time to enforce this law and monitor potential unregistered Foreign Agents. Its no surprise, then, that only 400 Foreign Agents are currently registered. Does anyone here seriously think that only 400 people in the whole United States take foreign money for pr and lobbying work . Inspector general said the fbi investigators and the Justice Department officials cant even agree on what makes a good case for enforcement of this law. It is then no surprise that the Inspector General found that there is no, quote, comprehensive Department Enforcement strategy on fara, the acronym for the law. End of quote. Between 1966 and 2017, the Justice Department brought only seven criminal fara cases. So listen to this. It has been 26 years since the Justice Department used civil injunction relief to enforce this law. Now, then why comply when the Justice Department clearly doesnt treat this law as a priority . In april 2015 letter to then attorney general holder, i wrote about sydney blumenthals efforts to influence u. S. Policy by leveraging his close relationship with secretary clinton. News articles reported that mr. Blumenthal transmitted documents to secretary clinton on behalf of a Political Party in the country of georgia. The Justice Department never explained why it did not require mr. Blumenthal to register under fara. If the Justice Department thought mr. Blumenthals activities on behalf of foreign interests did not require registration, it should simply say so. Particularly, when the Trump Administration has required Lieutenant General Michael Flynn to retroactively register under the law and in large part because he wrote an oped for the hill newspaper. The administration also required Paul Manafort, the podesta rule, mercury llc, to register for their work on behalf of ukrainian government. Recently, theres been a lot of reporting about other unregistered Foreign Agents attempting to influence u. S. Policy. For example, a group of unregistered russian agents allegedly worked to undermine the magnitsky act. That 2012 act was passed in honor of sergei magnitsky, who uncovered massive financial fraud in russia involving corrupt russian government officials and organized crime. He was then arrested by the same corrupt officials and later died in russian prison under suspicious circumstances. The magnitsky act allows the president to sanction individual russian human rights abusers and freeze their assets in the u. S. The law was passed through a tireless effort of william crowder, who will testify here today. Mr. Magnitsky was mr. Brouders lawyer and friend. In 2016, he filed a complaint with the Justice Departments fara enforcement unit. He alleged that a group of unregistered agents were working on behalf of the russian government to get rid of the law named after his late friend. He said these unregistered agents lobbied congress. He said they organized a screening of a propaganda video. With hill staffers and state department officials, the propaganda video smeared mr mr. Magnitsky and mr. Browder. What this video represents is a pretty cute operation. The Foreign Agents also published propaganda to news outlets, trying to get bogus stories published by respectable organizations. As we learned as we learned after this hearing was scheduled, they apparently even lobbied the Trump Campaign and the trump family. Yet, the Justice Department didnt require any of them to register as Foreign Agents. One individual identified as mr. Browders complaint is glen simpson, founder of fusion gps. Since march 2017, i have been asking about the russians, who were working with fusion gps to smear mr. Browder and undermine the magnitsky act. Mr. Simpsons company, fusion gps, is the same firm that oversaw the creation of the unverified trump dossier. Around the same time, fusion also helped orchestrate a campaign to repeal the magnitsky act for the benefit of russian governments. There are public reports that the fbi used the dossier to kick start its russian investigation. Did the fbi know that fusion pitched propaganda for the russians even as it pushed the dossier . What would they say about its reliability if the dossier was represented to any court should this fact have been disclosed . Two other individuals identified in mr. Browders complaint have been in the news a lot lately. The first is the russian lawyer who represents holdings. Her name, natalia vesnit skia, as you know. Well just refer to her as russian agent xyz or something. Pr er prevazon is a Russian Company connected to millions of dollars. The other person is a russian american lobbyist with reported ties to russian intelligence. The New York Times recently decried him as, quote, a master of the dark arts, end of quote. These two were reportedly at the meeting with the Trump Campaign and family members last summer. They reportedly offered dirt on the opponent to get a meeting and then made their pitch against the magnitsky act. Was it just a clumsy bait and switch effort in their unregistered Propaganda Campaign . Hopefully well get some answers from mr. Trump and mr. Manafort on that point. We will also pursue details about mr. Simpsons role in this event and the creation and circulation of the dossier that started this whole controversy. Knowing exactly who was acting on behalf of the russian government is vital to get to the bottom of russian influence in our democratic system. That is why fara must be enforce consistently and even handedly. Otherwise, it wont be taken serious. I look forward to discussing with the witnesses additional steps to better enforce fara. Now its my pleasure to turn the table over to my Ranking Member. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman. Let me just begin with a comment. Thank you for bringing everybody up to date on our discussion on the witnesses that were on the schedule here but are not at the present time. I think thats very helpful, so thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, the Foreign Agents registration act or what our chairman correctly said is called fara, is really an important issue. Particularly at a time when we face unprecedented interference in our democratic processes by a certain country, namely russia. Fara was enacted in 1938. Thats a long time ago. It was enacted to insure that the public was aware of efforts by the German Government and the nazi party to use a network of United States citizens and firms to sway Public Opinion and United States policy in germanys favor. The law requires any individual working on behalf of a Foreign Government or foreign interests to register with the department of justice. It doesnt prohibit lobbying or other political activities. But instead, it requires disclosure when those activities are directed by foreign interests. Long overlooked, fara has received renewed attention in the past several months because of the highprofile cases involving former National Security adviser Michael Flynn, who registered retroactively for work that he had done for the turkish government at the same time he was advising the Trump Campaign. Former Campaign Manager Paul Manafort also registered in 2017 for nearly 17 million for lobbying work on behalf of the prorussian party of regents in ukraine between 2012 and 2014. Unfortunately, late registrations under fara are not a new problem, nor are they limited to these two examples. In september of 2016, the Justice Department ig reported that 62 of the registrations that it had reviewed had been filed late. 50 were incomplete. Ill let you draw your conclusions from that. My conclusion is that our authorities dont take the law seriously. And we need to change that. There appears to be no meaningful penalty for late or incomplete filings, and over the past 50 years, the Justice Department has prosecuted only seven fara cases. Instead, where violations are discovered, the department encourages compliance, creating a system where there are no consequences for failing to follow the law. So i look forward to hearing from our Witnesses Today about whether and if what changes should be made and whether the current law is adequate. So once again, i thank you for solving our problems with the other witnesses. And i look forward to the testimony. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Well, besides your thanking me, you have been very cooperative and i appreciate it very much. Thank you. Im going to introduce the witnesses, and then im going to ask you to stand and be sworn. Adam hickey is Deputy Attorney general for National Security division, doj. He manages the National Security divisions efforts to combat National Security threats from 2013 to 15, mr. Hickey was the acting deputy chief of cyber for the counterintelligence and export control section of the National Security division. Mr. Hickey was also a federal prosecutor. Thank you for being here. Mr. Priestap is an assistant director for the Counterintelligence Division at the fbi. He previously served as Deputy Assistant director of Intelligence Operations Branch in the directorate of intelligence at fbi headquarters. He has worked at the fbi since 1998. Thank you for being here. Michael horowitz has been a frequent witness before our committee, is an Inspector General for the Justice Department. He was confirmed april, 2012, and oversees a nationwide work force of more than 400 employees. Immediately preceding this post he was in private practice and also previously worked for the Justice Departments criminal division. The Inspector Generals mission is to detect and deter waste, fraud, and abuse and misconduct. Its also to promote economy and efficiency in the department of justice. We thank you for being here and would you stand now at this point so i can ask you to do do you affirm that the testimony that youre about to give before the committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you god . They all affirm. Mr. Hickey, would you start out and then well go to mr. Priestap and then to mr. Horowitz. Then well have fiveminute rounds for questioning. Good morning, chairman grassley. Ranking member feinstein and distinguished members of the committee. Thank you for providing me the opportunity to testify on behalf of the department of justice concerning the Foreign Agents registration act. The department appreciates the committees interest in fara. I know the committee already has my written testimony so i wont repeat it here. Instead, ill cover a few key points about the law and its background, how we enforce and administer it, and how the department has responded to last years report by the Justice Departments Inspector General. Fara is a disclosure statute that requires persons in the United States who engage in specified activities as agents of foreign principals to register with the department. The acts purpose is to ensure the American Public and our lawmakers know the source of information that is provided at the behest of a foreign principal where that information may be intended to influence u. S. Public opinion, policy or laws. The statute finds you must register with a Foreign Agent. And what they must disclose. It exempts certain types of Foreign Agents from the Registration Requirements and among other things it requires registered agents to preserve their books and records and to make them available for inspection. Because fara is designed to encourage transparency in public speech and political activities, not to discourage that speech and activities, it differs somewhat from other provisions of the criminal code such as those that punish espionage and other clandestine conduct. Instead of prosecution, the primary means of achieving that transparency is by encouraging voluntary disclosure in compliance with the act. The department will, of course, approve criminal prosecutions under fara if theres sufficient admissible evidence of a willful violation of the statute. But the high burden in proving willfulness, difficulties in proving direction or control by a foreign principal, and exemptions available under the statute make criminal violation for fara violations challenging. Despite the challenges its brought four cases since 200200 all of which resulted in criminal convictions. Its handled by dojs National Security divisions fara unit. A regular part of the fara units work involved attempting to identify people who may have been subject to fara who have not registered. They rely on publicly available information and referrals or information provided by other government offices. If credible information suggests that the individual should register under fara, the fara unit will send the individual a letter advising them of the obligation and requesting a response. If the individual does not respond or the response seems incomplete or untruthful, we will follow up. In some cases we may decide a criminal investigation is appropriate and involve the fbi. Often the recipients of those letters of inquiry will register. Fara unit staff carefully review registration filings for deficiencies, seek amendments and conduct inspections to ensure continued compliance. Fara unit staff also provide advisory opinions regarding the application and requirements of the act and perform other tasks i described in more detail in my written testimony. I will now address how we have responded to the 2016 report of the Inspector General. The oig report made 14 recommendations, nsd agreed with all of them, has implemented a few of them, and is working to implement the few that remain. As a result, in february, 2017, the oig informed nsd that six of the recommendations were closed. Nsd plans to file its next Progress Report in august at which time we anticipate the oig will be in a position to close nearly all of their remaining recommendations. I want to thank the committee again forpoiding me this opportunity to discuss these pornts issues and im happy to answer any questions you may have. Mr. Priestap . Chairman grassley, Ranking Member feinstein and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you. My statement for the record has been submitted so rather than restating it, id like to explain why the issue before us is so important. The Foreign Agents registration act, or fara, is critical because we need all available tools to combat todays counterintelligence threat. Unbeknownst to many americans, the threat posed by our foreign adversaries is growing, both in volume and complexity our country is under Relentless Assault by hostile state actors and their proxies and adversarial nations arent just using their Intelligence Services to conduct these assaults, they are using a wholeofgovernment approach, by pursuing their goals on economic, technological, military, diplomatic, and intelligence fronts. They use people from across their governments and from all walks of life in pursuit of their desire to gain strategic advantage over the United States in whatever ways they can. The lack of understanding of the scope and scale of the counterintelligence threat combined with the fact the threat is the a gradual one leads too many people to underestimate it. But make no mistake, our economy, our National Security, and our way of life are being actively threatened by state actors and their proxies today and every day. Its just one example of this, a number of our adversaries engage in activities designed to influence u. S. Public opinion, policy, and laws by requiring these activities to be conducting in an overt manner, by requiring Foreign Agents to publicly disclose their relationship with foreign principals, the American Public and the u. S. Government can better evaluate the information these agents provide. However, when Foreign Agents dont disclose their relationship with their foreign principals, we are more susceptible to being unduly influenced. This is why Foreign Agents who willfully fail to disclose their relationship with foreign principals may be criminally charged pursuant to fara. We live in an age in which we are bombarded with information so its more important than ever that we understand its source, otherwise we cant fully understand and evaluate it. Fara matters because it requires Foreign Agents to publicly disclose for whom they speak. Fara also matters because in the counterintelligence realm the United States needs every weapon in its arsenal. While the fbi is the lead domestic counterintelligence agency, the only way to effectively combat wholeofgovernment threats is through wholeofgovernment responses. The fbi is committed to working with the department of justice to enforce fara and any other statute that could be used against our adversaries. The fbi is equally committed to working with other u. S. Government components, the private sector and foreign partners to do the same. In closing, thank you very much for holding this hearing. As doing so raises awareness of the counterintelligence threat and one of the tools that can be used to fight it. Thank you, now mr. Horowitz. Thank you mr. Chairman, Ranking Member feinstein, members of the committee. Thank you for inviting me to testify at todays hearing. The Foreign Agents registration act is an important statute that Congress Passed to ensure that the people of the United States are informed of attempts by foreign principals to influence u. S. Public opinion, policy, and laws. In september 2016, my Office Issued an audit report on the departments efforts to enforce fara and its administration and monitoring of fara registrations. We found that the number of fara registrations has declined significantly over the last two decades and that criminal prosecutions and Civil Enforcement actions are rare. Additionally, we determined that over half of the initial fara registrations we reviewed were untimely and 50 of registrants filed at least one recurring sixmonth supplemental registration late. In light of the information we reviewed and evaluated, we identified four general areas of concern. First, the department lacked a comprehensive enforcement strategy for fara and we heard about significant disagreements between the National Security division, the fbi, and assistant u. S. Attorneys about how such investigations were being handled and reviewed. Second, the National Security division was having difficulty gathering the necessary information so that it could identify when Foreign Agents had failed to register as required under fara. Third, the National Security division needed to improve its monitoring and oversight of registrants, including ensuring registrants were complying with applicable Filing Requirements and doing so in a timely manner. And fourth, the department had not made an assessment of the reason for the sharp decline in fara registrations over the past two decades, including the impact of the lobbying disclosure act exemption and whether any legislative changes should be sought. As a result of our findings, we made 14 recommendations to the department and they agreed with all of them. Five of our recommendations related to enforcement efforts. Since our report was released, nsd has taken significant actions for the oig to close, the three recommendations related to updating, training for investigators and prosecutors, providing more timely communication with fbi agents and federal prosecutors on the nsd decisionmaking process, and working with the fbi regarding classification codes for fara and section 951 cases. Our recommendation that they form a comprehensive enforcement strategy and better track fara cases remain open, although were told by nsd its working to address those two recommendations. Seven of our 14 recommendations related to improving nsds oversight of its Foreign Agent registrations. Two recommendations have since been closed because the nsd has begun posting anonymized advisory opinions on its fara website and because its expanded its sources of information that it collects so that it can better gather information on possible foreign registrants. The other five recommendations remain open and address delink wnsy noticed to registrants who have not filed documents timely, the tracking of file closures, resolution of inspection reports, filing fees, and the use of its email system, efile system, to address timeliness. Weve been told by nsd it is working on each of those items as well. Finally, we made two recommendations related to possible legislation changes we heard about. The first, which is now closed, related to the statutory 48hour time limit for agent filing materials with the department, which our report found was not being met. To address this recommendation, nsd told us that it is seeking to amend the statute to lengthen the time period for agents to file information with the department. Our other recommendation that remains open was for the department to conduct a formal assessment of the impact of the foreign disclosure lobbying act on fara enforcement and whether changes should be sought legislatively. Weve been told by nsd that it is continuing its assessment of that issue. As to each of these eight remaining open recommendations, my office will continue to monitor the departments progress to ensure that they are fully implemented because we believe they will further one of the primary goals congress had in passing fara, namely, Greater Transparency for the public about efforts by foreign principals to influence Public Opinion and public policy. This concludes my prepared statement. I would be happy to answer any questions the committee may have. I think all the members know that the twohour rule has been imposed so that means weve got to get through this panel and the next panel in an hour and a half. So anything that anybody can do to shorten their questioning period would be helpful, because one of our witnesses came from out the country to testify. Mr. Chairman, may i ask, do we know whos invoked the twohour rule . I find it hard to believe any United States senator would block our ability to inquire into this important subject. Do we happen to know . I do not know. I hope some members of the press find out and ask why they would want to block this important hearing. Im well have fiveminute rounds. Ill try to cut mine short if i can to get the question in. According to the Inspector General, so im going to mr. Hickey, main justice and the fbi are not adequately communicating with each other and have struggled to understand what qualifies as a proper fara charge. Since 1966, the Justice Department has only brought seven criminal fara cases in which only one resulted in conviction and two pled guilty. So why would doj expect people to register and be transparent when they arent really punished for failing to register . Thank you, mr. Chairman. Let me begin by saying how appreciative i am both of this hearing and the members for holding it and also to the Inspector General for his report. I took my current position about a year ago, and that is the first time i became responsible for the fara unit. And its very helpful when you take on a new position to have a road map of someone that someone has put together that issues spots where you need to focus problems that need to be addressed. And so let me express my gratitude publicly for the Inspector General for that report. As the igs report lays out, i think there may be an element of terminology misunderstanding in some parts of the bureau in the Justice Department which were trying to rectify, which is i think many agents and prosecutors refer to a different provision of the criminal code, namely section 951 of title 18, which also has the words agent and Foreign Government in the title, as fara. Instead of referring to the act were discussing today. I dont think at least sitting here today based on the work we have done over the last year there is a misunderstanding. Weve worked hard to train prosecutors and agents in the field what fara looks like, what a fara violation looks like and to bring cases to us and in recent memory im aware of only a single case in which a u. S. Attorneys office has proposed a criminal charge that nsd has not approved but that case was prosecutored under a different statute and a conviction obtained. So i think we have made great progress towards educating our field on the importance of these cases and the need to bring them. Thank you. Now to mr. Horowitz. Have the Justice Department and the fbi adequately addressed how fara fits into the departments overall National Security efforts . If so, explain and if not, please explain what else must be done. Well, we have not closed our recommendation regarding the need for comprehensive strategy. Were looking forward to the august update that we are due from nsd about that and it our review highlighted this disconnect and the lack of a comprehensive strategy, both based on our discussions with assistant u. S. Attorneys, fbi agents handling these cases as well as the National Security division folks because not only were there disagreements about the number of cases and what classification they fell in and what which were fara cases and which were not, but the absence of prosecutions and the absence of records to see what had happened with reviews that we heard complaints about. Mr. Hickey, leading into your next two questions, im going to ask you, the department recently required the Podesta Group and mercury llc to register for engaging in Public Relations campaigns to the benefit of Foreign Governments. Public reports show a foreigncontrolled company hired fusion gps and glen simpson to do propaganda work in an effort to repeal the magnitsky act. Fusion gps reportedly dug up dirt on mr. Browders property and finances and helped generate negative news about him and his company. This covert negative Publicity Campaign would principally benefit the russian government. So without reference to that particular case, if a Company Engages in a Publicity Campaign on behalf of a Foreign Government to influence u. S. Law, does that generally create an obligation to register under fara . Ill get the hang of it. Thank you, senator, for the question and thank you for acknowledging my inability to comment on particular investigations or potential investigations today. Let me describe our practice. Where we see credible information to believe that someone is acting as an agent of a foreign prince pal, we face a choice at that moment. In most cases we dont have indications of willfulness, meaning we dont have indications that the individual is deliberately choosing not to register but aware of their own obligation and in that case we would send a letter of inquiry and solicit more information. However, if we had indications that the agent was acting willfully, it may be more appropriate to go directly to a criminal investigation. I think in your question, sir, you used the terms on behalf of. I want to be precise, the statute applies to agents, so those working at the direction or control of a foreign principal, one of the challenges we sometimes face is that independent groups may have interests that overlap with or c coincide Foreign Governments and that can be a challenge to other determination that theyre acting at the direction or control of the foreign prince pal. Senator feinstein . Thanks very much, mr. Chairman. Mr. Horowitz, youve always been a straight shooter and thats very much appreciated. Ive been reading your remarks bottom of page three and top of page four where you have a number of recommendations. Yes. And you begin by saying nsd officials have difficulty compelling the production of information from persons who may be agents and therefore nsd was pursuing civil investigative demand authority from congress. Excuse me, to help enhance the nsds ability to assess the need for potential agents to register. And you go on and talk about including controls and oversight, and you also speak about insuring the statutory 48hour time limit for agent filing of informational materials. I think its pretty clear that we need some legislation in this area. Would you be prepared to work with us on a bipartisan basis to strengthen this . Absolutely and i think my folks who did the audit have a fair amount of understanding about where some of the fault lines are here. Could you just sort of prioritize if you were us where you would go first, second and third . I think first and foremost is what you and the chairman have identified which is putting teeth into the statute and making sure that the fbi, the National Security divisions believe they have the tools to ensure that people voluntarily comply. It shouldnt be the case that youre found out through google searches or otherwise, told to register and then you register. There are no consequences to registering, why not wait for the knock on the door rather than come up voluntarily and do it . So i think thats first and foremost. Second, obviously, to do that prosecutors and agents need to get the information to see who isnt voluntarily complying and thats where the civil investigative demand comes in and i think then third its the question that has been raised and we talked about in our audit about the impact of the lobbying disclosure act. What we heard over and over again was the exemption in fara for folks who are complying with the lobbying disclosure act has impacted and is a major reason why theres been a substantial drop over the last two decades in the number of filings. The problem we had when we went in to see if that was true is that the department wasnt tracking information and didnt know, in fact, if that was true, it was a supposition but there werent records to show it so i would suggest those are the three areas where we should first and foremost focus. Just to comment, i dont know a time when the United States feels more invaded. And by this i mean, 21 States Election systems were pierced in this last election we believe by russia and thats a pretty sovereign interference and interference with our sovereignty. So there are two of us here that serve on the Intelligence Committee so we know some of these things and it seems to me that the time has really come to tighten this act up to know who is in the country, to see that they formally apply, to see if they violate its prosecuted and that it has become a priority for us. Would you agree with that . Absolutely. Gentlemen, do you have a comment to make on what i just said . Senator, thank you for asking what other tools we might require. Im aware of at least two proposals, one that may have been introduced for legislative changes and we are working hard to coordinate views across the administration on those proposals and i, too, in the Department Look forward to working with congress on this important question. Can you give us the name of the legislation so we can find it . I know senator shaheen has introduced one bill. There is another bill in the house. To be candid, im not sure if it has been introduced publicly, so i dont want to exceed my writ today, and ive heard talk of other potential bills but i know of two were working on right now. Thank you. And well talk with mr. Horowitz and you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator hatch . Welcome to the committee, were happy to have all of you here. I come with one simple message, lets be fair. Lets judge both sides of the political divide, both parties by the same standards. And there are few things i take more seriously than the allegations of foreign interference in the 2016 election. Actually, for foreign influence actually, foreign influence would be an egregious violation of our sovereignty, even the plausible allegation of it can, if left unaddressed, seriously undermine Public Confidence in our institutions. Weve heard pretty serious accusations of foreign influence over the Trump Campaign, whether here in the senate or in the media. And frankly, many of these allegations have been truly outlandish. Most have been politically motivated and all have been taking their toll. Even the most outrageous accusation repeated often enough will slowly acquire a false ring of truth, especially in todays media environment. And so to the extent that there is anything to these allegations, republicans are stepping up. There are investigations under way by both the house and the senate Intelligence Committees before the appointment of special counsel by the department of justice, the House Oversight committee was investigating, and now the Senate Judiciary committee is investigating. All are controlled by republicans, so i dont want to hear anyone complain we arent standing up and doing what is necessary here to get to the bottom of these things. As to todays hearing, a critical part of the investigation in this committee will be the application of the Foreign Agents registration act. Its a critical part of the equation. I want to commend chairman grassley and the Ranking Member as well for holding this hearing and leading the way on this, but i also want everyone in the media, the democrats, our constituents and the republicans to hear me and to hear me clearly. While these allegations may be too serious to ignore, they are also too serious to be left incomplete and too serious to be used for partisan ends. If were going to get to the bottom of this, we need to investigate the whole story. That means looking at more than just foreign influence over the Trump Campaign. It includes looking at serious allegations of foreign influence over the Clinton Campaign and the Democratic National committee as well. After all, if this National Controversy is going to be brought to a legitimate conclusion, we have to treat it as more than just fodder for partisan gamesmanship and more than a headlinegrabbing attack on the president. We need to explore both sides of the story. According to the Committee Staff report and as numerous reports in the media have revealed, there are serious questions about whether foreign actors wanted to hurt, not help, the Trump Campaign. And there are serious questions about whether foreign actors wanted to help, not hurt the Clinton Campaign. Many suspect that foreign actors wanted to help Neither Campaign but they wanted to hurt our electoral process as a whole by sowing chaos and confusion. And so there are questions that this committee needs answered. Im pleased that the Trump Campaign individuals have agreed to be interviewed, but it doesnt end with them. Fusion gps, for example, the Opposition Research firm, has a lot of questions to answer. The Democratic National committee has questions to answer and the Clinton Campaign has questions to answer. So in conclusion, we have heard democrats level grave, often outlandish accusations at the Trump Administration and family. Weve seen the media pursue it relentlessly. But weve heard far less about the rest of the story. Mr. Chairman, i applaud you and the Ranking Member for scheduling this hearing and i implore my democratic colleagues in the media to join the Judiciary Committee to getting to the bottom of this. We must ensure that these investigations serve as an opportunity to protect our institutions, not merely as an excuse to attack our political opponents. Our constituents deserve better than theyve gotten and we can start by fixing this today and doing what ought to be done in this particular area. So i want to thank you three gentlemen for appearing with us as well and just say i hope we can be fair in these matters and treat the Trump Administration as fairly as we want our personal interests to be treated. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, senator hatch, i appreciate your remarks. Senate whitehouse . Gentlemen, welcome, i will try to move through my material quickly to obey the chairmans injunction that we move along. First, do any of you have any doubt whatsoever that russia interfered in our 2016 president ial election . None . Okay. Just to be clear. Well, let me just say, i only know what ive read in the newspaper. We are not involved i understand that. Because youre the ig. Yes. So the Foreign Agent registration act, you will all agree, i hope, has as its purpose to identify Foreign Agents seeking to influence u. S. Government policies, correct . Correct. Is that an important purpose . How important a purpose, in very brief words. Very important, senator. Agreed. Agreed. Can Foreign Agents seeking to influence u. S. Government policy use Shell Corporations to obscure their identities . I can certainly conceive of situations where agents acting here for a foreign principal could use corporate forums or other measures to hide their connection to the principal. And the use of nontransparent corporate forms, does that help or hinder your ability to investigate foreign influence in u. S. Government policies . It would be part of the challenge i referred to earlier, senator, of the difficulty in proving direction or control to the ultimate principal. So Greater Transparency as to who is behind a Shell Corporation would be an advantage to Law Enforcement . I think so, senator. Yes. Similarly, could Foreign Agents use anonymous political contributions, say, through 501 c 4 or through identity laundering devices like donors trust to obscure who is actually making the political contribution . Senator, im not so much an expert in Campaign Finance or contributions. What youve said sounds right to me but i dont want to mislead you that i have any particular expertise. If your purpose is to identify a foreign influence being brought to bear on our government and election money is pouring in and you dont know who is actually behind it, that creates an avenue for foreign influence to influence our government, correct . That sounds right to me, senator. Can business relationships be used and, indeed, is it not well established that russia tries to use business relationships to facilitate or as cover for foreign influence operations . Ill defer to the fbi to speak to russia specifically. I know that one of the challenges, senator, that we face is that theres often an economic or commercial cast to the activity here. But, in fact, the Foreign Government may be the principal beneficiary or the activity may not be private or nonpolitical in nature, and thus require registration. And its established through both the kremlin handbook report by csis and the Kremlin Trojan horses report by Atlantic Council that russia actually uses business relationships to corrupt and to influence people in other countries where theyre seeking influence, correct . Mr. Priestapriestap, youre fam with that . Im familiar with both reports and in my experience that is true. So in an investigation into a Foreign Agents effort to influence u. S. Policy, being able to understand business relationships could be vital to understanding the influence scheme, correct . Absolutely. And in that effort, are an individuals tax returns potentially very significant, indeed often obvious investigative material . A variety of financial records pertaining to any of the individuals or entities involved could be of importance including tax returns. Included tax returns. Which are so widely pursued in criminal investigations that theres actually a whole section in the u. S. Attorneys manual devoted to the simple process for investigators getting access to tax returns, correct . Yes. Im not an expert on tax returns, but they can be of investigative value. Thank you very much. My time has expired. Senator cornyn and then senator clobuchar. Thank you for holding this very important hearing. And i hope some of our democratic colleagues have objected to the continuation of this hearing beyond two hours will reconsider and withdraw that objection because what were doing here is simply too important to the security of our country. Mr. Priestap, thank you for making what i think is a really important point. We tend to focus on the trees instead of the forest, and here, of course, the concern, immediate concern is about russian involvement in our elections. But you have made the point, i believe, that our international adversaries will use a range of activities both overtand covert to undermine us in a variety of ways, and of course, for now, were just talking about the Foreign Agents registration act, which would be more of an overt means of doing so. But i fear that fara violations are happening around this town all the time, meaning Foreign Governments are attempting to exert undisclosed influence over u. S. Policy, and we simply dont know about it. I experienced this recently in my work on the justice against sponsors of terrorism act, which is a law that gave americans tools to fight terrorism and bring justice to victims that had the overwhelming support of congress, not withstanding the veto of president obama. Opponents of the bill warned that any number of consequences would occur with our relationship to saudi arabia, which was not named in the bill, but of course, none of those have results. But even though they were wrong, the debate was a real one, and the kind that ought to accompany any bill. Along with healthy debate, the kingdom of saudi arabia reportedly undertook a cloaked campaign to gut the legislation and involved ghost written letters and ghost written legislation, involved threats to american companies, involved as of october 2016 saudi arabia paying american lobbyists and Public Relations firms to undermine or overturn the legislation. They paid them 1. 3 million each month to fight against the right of american victims of terrorism to sue Terror Financing nations, but the worst part of this campaign was the use of veterans to persuade members of congress, according to press reports, agents of the saudi government recruited American Veterans, flew them to washington, wined them and dined them, then put them up in fancy hotels and provided them with false information to provide to members of congress. They didnt tell these american heroes who was sponsoring them and who they were serving. And not only did these agents apparently violate fara, they put our American Veterans at legal risk. Veterans indicated the organizers concealed the sponsorship of their trip and a number of the firms did not file under fara until outraged veterans in press reports revealed those activities. This kind of conduct should gall every member of the senate. And it demonstrators that foreign nations will pay large sums of money and go to great extent to influence our laws and policies of the United States government. Unfortunately, they can do so nearly unchecked and with little threat of punishment. And that must change. Gentleman, i would like to ask you when the lobbying disclosure act was implemented in 1995, there was a corresponding drop in Foreign Agents registration act. Current law allows an individual to represents a foreign individual or commercial entity but not a Foreign Government or Political Party to register under this lobbying disclosure act instead of the Foreign Agent registration act. And of course, there are instances where companies are either formally or informally controlled by Foreign Governments. We can think of a number of them. And theres an open question of the level of government control of any company in china, for example, which is all subservient to the communist party and the government of china. So i would ask each of you to comment, should the lobbying disclosure act be amended so that all foreign commercial entities would likewise file under the Foreign Agent registration act, and how do we handle the fact that many foreign nations use stateowned or stateaffiliated enterprises to conduct their Foreign Policy . Should we think about fara in that light as well . So in your opinion, how large is the community of u. S. Companies or enablers, as theyre sometimes called, searching to find clients interested in avoiding fara . There are a number of questions but i would be interested in your brief comments given the considerations of time. Senator, ill be as succinct as possible. Repealing what we call the lda exemption is, i think in one of the proposed pieces of legislation i spoke to earlier. I cant take a position today, but i hope to have coordinated administration views on that later. I know two things from managing the fara units work. One, as you pointed out, the number of fara registrations dropped precipitously after lda was passed and the exemption was passed. At the time, the department expressed the view that might happen. The exemptions should work a different way, that you maybe would be exempt from the lda but not fara in a circumstance. And one of the challenges the last point ill make quickly is one of the challenges we face is that the Companies May not even be controlled or at least not on paper by the government. They may in fact be just a well connected corporate enterprise, not under the direction or control of Foreign Government, but whose interests overlap and who under our regs are doing work the principal beneficiary for whom is the Foreign Government. Those folks are still obligated to register. We searched the lda registry and tried to ferret out whether the principal registrant is the party but its a challenge for us. Senator klobuchar. Thank you to you and senator feinstein for this hearing, and while its disappointing that some of our witnesses arent here today, it is important to move forward in a bipartisan way. And im going to focus on the issues at hand here. Mr. Hickey, i am a cosponsor of bipartisan legislation, the Foreign Agents registration modernization and enforcement act, to give federal prosecutors a civil investigative demand authority they need to investigate foreign entities and help insure they comply with the law under the bill the Justice Department could make suspected fara violators turn over relevant documents before initiating a similar criminal proceeding. And i understand that obtaining this authority has been a priority for the Justice Departments National Security division. Can you explain why this type of authority would be so helpful to prosecutors . Thank you, senator. As i mentioned ulier, im not in a position to call for any particular legislative not in a position to call for any legislative change today, i simply dont have authorization to do that. But twice in the past, in 1991 and 1998, the federal government has proposed authority for cnisd for exactly that purpose. While i wont advocate for that one way or the other today, i will point out that that authority would create a Fertile Ground for the bottom level of inquiry that we rely level on now. And a more detailed question on russian tv. We know our intelligence agencies have found that russia tried to interfere in our election, in january, the director of National Intelligence released a report documenting some of the ways they tried to do this, including through news outlets and they say that russia rt america were set up to avoid the foreign aid registration act because its registered as a nonprofit instead of a government affiliate. Can one of you elaborate on why rt isnt currently registered under fera . I cannot comment on any particular individuals or entities, but it strikes me that when Congress Passed it recently, this might be in the 60s, it carved out u. S. Owned media. Im familiar with the reporting that you have referred to and im familiar with that the statute says that that i have carved that out from a u. S. Owned and foreign owned and it could be another government owned do you think that the fera requirements in current law adequately reflect recent tech technological advancements. Updating the 48hour rule for facebook and twitter helped the unit do it more effectively. I know you have commented on legislation, but are there tools out there that could be helpful to you . Thank you, senator, i think the statute does represent a i know as early as 1940, the attorney general, then attorney general, issued an opinion that if you mail materials into the United States, even if youre not here, youre acting within the United States. So i see the challenge with the internet as both a technical one, but also a question of jurisdiction. Even if youre, quote, unquote subject to fera because youre acting here, how will we reach an agent thats in another country. I think the internet presents a new challenge that thinking has to occur on the 48hour rule and other requirements. It just seems that we need to update this law given that our election is around the corner and Everyone Wants to have their vote count and that means not having influence from other entities. Thank you very much. Thank you senator klobuchar, now senator graham. I would like to add my comments to the rank members for determining the way forward in dealing the threats we face as a nation and changing our laws consistent with we cant agree on health care, but we could be able to agree on this. Heres the deal. Apac, are you familiar with apac, americanarab Political Action committee . I know they have a lot of contacts in israel, should somebody like that be a Foreign Agent . Sir, its probably not appropriate for me to comment on a particular entity, but i think youve hit on something very important to us, which is right now, we rely principally on public reports for the basis to send voluntary letters of inquiry. I would love to receive more information in whatever form anyone can give it to me about whats occurring behind closed doors so we can take steps to investigate if appropriate. Im not suggesting that aapac is doing anything wrong, but theyre a group of americans who have banded together to maximize their influence, to speak about something important to them, that involves a foreign ally so i think the aapac model is a good thing. And thats not my concern because theyre very transparent. They have conventions and we all know how the game is played there, i just want to make sure that lobbying on behalf of a Foreign Government or a u. S. Relationship with a Foreign Government is not a bad thing as long as you do things right. And i have some friends who are members of Foreign Governments that come to my office all the time that talk about what theyre doing, nothing wrong with that as long as youre up front. General flynn who i admire his service to our country, but he wrote an oped piece saying that we should extradite the guy that erdogan hates so much. I didnt know at the time that he was getting hundreds of how and of dollars from turkey. Thats the guy we want to get a hold of, is that correct . We did advise general flynn that we believed he had a registration obligation, sir. But that kind of conduct is what were all worried about. May have. Lets get back to what senator klobuchar was talking about. You have russian bots that are actively pushing news, fake news thats harmful to one candidate and helpful to other candidates, so youve got all these people making up crap and sending bad articles to key districts to influence the outcome of an election, this time it may be against the republican party, next week it could be against the democratic party. And it goes on and on. What power do we have if somebody in the United States coordinates with them, some platform or website begins to coordinate with content that originates outside the country, being disseminated in a political fashion within the country, if somebody coordinates with them or becomes an ally, what status would they have . Senator, i would have to look at all the facts and circumstances of a particular case. Fera reaches conduct when a person acting within the United States is doing so under the direction or control or the agent of the principal. What kind of content thats being sent from outside the country being delivered to any organization within the country that co colludes with them. Youll have to know whos under the direction or control of those foreign individuals. If they are . If youre an agent acting under the direction or control do our laws give a good enough answer to my question . Senator, i dont feel prepared to answer that question today, im sorry. Senator franken and then senator kennedy. Thank you mr. Chairman, thank you gentlemen for testifying. In january, the director of National Intelligence released a classified report, detailing interference in last years election. The report states unequivocally, quote, russian president Vladimir Putin influenced the campaign in 2016 aimed at the u. S. President ial election, mr. Hickey, youre here today representing the Justice Departments National Security division and the fbis Counter Intelligence division, have you read the declassified intelligence assessment of the russian operation . I have, senator. Thank you. I have as well. Good. Have either of you read the classified version of the report . I have. Okay, thank you. Im not sure, sir. Okay. Do you have any reason to doubt the intelligence communitys assessment that the russians interfered in last years president ial election . No, sir. No, sir. For some reason President Trump remains unwilling to accept the fact that russia interfered in our election. We saw this during the campaign when he dismissed reports of russian meddling because the hacking could have been carried out by someone sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds, but now six months into his presidency, we continue to see that reluctance to acknowledge the truth. Just last week, the newly minted White House Communications director Anthony Scaramucci appeared on cnn and he said this, quote, you know, somebody said to me yesterday, i wont tell you who, if the russians actually hacked this situation and spilled out those emails, you would never have seen it, you would never have had evidence of them, meaning that theyre superconfident in their deception skills and hacking. The host of the show asked just who that somebody was. And mr. Scaramucci admitted that it was President Trump. Who had explained that if the russians had, quote, hacked this situation, that the United States would not have evidence of that hacking because of the russians superior intelligence capabilities. Do either of you know where President Trump got that idea . No, sir. No, sir. Ill tell you, President Trump believes that to be true becau because Vladimir Putin told him so, the times reported that President Trump emerged from his meeting with putin to tell him to tell his aides that the russian president had offered that moscows cyber operatives were so good at intelligence operations that if they had dipped into the dncs system, they would not have evidence of that. The president is taking the word of Vladimir Putin over the word of the United States Intelligence Services, and the president of the United States then goes on to repeat that russian lie to the American Press and to mr. Scaramucci, effectively spreading false news to them. When then fbi director comey appeared before the house Intelligence Committee in march, he described the russian operation as, quote, unusually loud. He said, quote, its almost as if they didnt care that we knew, their loudness in a way would be counting on us to amplify it by telling the American People what we saw and freaking people out about how the russians might be undermining our elections successfully, end quote. Do you agree with former director comeys assessment, was the russian operation unusually loud . Yes. Mr. Hickey, you managed the National Security administrations efforts to fight security attacks, do you agree with former director comeys assessment . In my position as a lawyer, i would defer to director comey on this and the fbi. So it seems fair to say that not only did russia interfere in last years election, but that russia wasnt trying to fly under the radar, contrary to what mr. Putin told mr. Donald trump, that russia wanted to and the unease it continues to cause us was in fact central to undermining americans faith in democracy, thank you for your indulgen indulgence. Are we going to get to mr. Browder today . Well stop here at 11 30 as the rule requires, and then mr. Browder will be here at 9 00 tomorrow. And thats because of the twohour rule . Yes. I would like to join senator brown and senator cornyn, i think its certainly their right, but i think they owe it to people who traveled a long distance. He came from overseas to be here. And hes willing to stay . If it was invoked so we couldnt talk to mr. Browder, it can happen tomorrow at 9 00. So we can overcome, if thats the rationale. If mr. Browder is here, i apologize for that. I think he will be in the anteroom if you want to apologize. I will do that. Mr. Hickey, according to media reports, mr. Sidney bloomumentb lobbied secretary clinton to show support for our Prime Minister candidate and the country of georgia. According to media reports, mr. Blumenthal reportedly passed along to the leader of the Opposition Party and transmitted a memo, to an acquaint tense by the name of mr. John cornbloom. I would like to know why the doj has not required them to register. Consistent with long standing democrat of justice policy, i cannot comment or deny on investigations or potential investigations. Okay. Have you ever heard of a group called fusion gps . I have, sir. I think its cofounder is mr. Glen simpson. I have seen that in media reports, sir. Has he registered under fera . Im not sure its public. Has anybody at the department of justice searched for his name . I dont know that, sir. Is somebody looking into that . I cant comment on that, sir. General horowitz, i think you testified that two decades ago, enforcement of fera became less of a priority, why is that . We saw a decade ago a significant drop in filings. Two years before that, was the imposition of fifa filing. If you look at the filing that we have done and the graphic thats included in the report, it actually starts occurring in 1993 after fees were imposed. And one of the challenges we had after we went in and did our audit, we tried to determine what was the lobbying discloess your act. And to determine if that was fact the cause. You have studied this issue, general, what do you think the cause was . It looks to be a combination of both potentially, as well as, we talked about earlier, the need to have a strong enforcement policy, and a mechanism to ensure that folks understand that there are real consequences for failing to register. I think one of the concerns our team had and i had in looking at this, is in 50 years, do seven criminal cases, five of which result in convictions and three of which involved fera challenges over a 50year period doesnt really sent the message out there that theres real teeth behind this. I would like you to think about this, to let it sink in, what you allow is whats going to continue. I understand the Justice Department cant talk about investigations, and i respect that, and i think its a good rule, but, general, i hope that you will continue to monitor this. Because its clear, that there es been a failing in what metric we have and its my understanding that it hasnt been fixed. Senator, if you use your five minutes, then i got to inform senator cruz that you might only have two or three minutes for you, then we have to return. Mr. Hickey, despite conducting trumps former National Security advisor advisor Michael Flynn and former Campaign Manager Paul Manafort only filed after their activities were disclosed. Doesnt that undermine the purpose of fera . Good morning, senator, i cant comment on particular cases, what i will say is that we do our level best to identify conduct through whatever source we can and act on it by sending either a voluntary letter of inquiry or opening a criminal case. So regardless of whether you can comment on particulars, im getting to the delay in registering under fera and im wondering whether a delay in registering at some point can amount to a willful violation of fera. I think thats a good question, senator. The statute makes it clear that if you register late, that does not preclude a prosecution and there may be a number of facts that raise an inference of willfulness. Certainly the goal of the statute is to make sure that agents register immediately upon becoming agents of principle. So perhaps we need to strengthen that part of the law because you mentioned that there needs to be a showing of willfulness to be a violation of fera and i think that a delay in registering amounts to a willful violation. During the 2016 republican convention, the Trump Campaign insisted on a change to the platform. At that time, Paul Manafort was the Trump Campaign chair, and at the time there was unreported payments from the pro russia party and ukraine. He also had business dealings in ukraine and russian oligarchs and never disclosed this work, wasnt this the kind of activity on behalf of a Foreign Government that fera registration is meant to disclose. Im sorry, senator, i dont think i can answer that question. We had previously advised mr. Manafort that he needed to register and he registered. I think that answers my question. Does this raise any questions for you . Im sorry, i cant comment on that. I dont want to interfere with any potential or current investigations. Would it be fair to say that in this fact pattern that this is not necessarily unusual . And this happens, we have a concern in this committee that there be the enforcement of fera and whatever may arise out of a violation of fera, so regardless of whether you can answer or not, we would hope that this is the kind of circumstance that would look into what is going on. Theres been some discussion about the what happens with the lda and the fact that theres been such a decrease in registrations under fera, undaf lda, im wondering, mr. Hickey, you said that the doj searches the lda databases for people who may not have appropriately registered. So my question is did the fbi search the fera databases for potential violations of law . Not that i know of, maam. Why wouldnt you . We depend on the department of justice to in effect oversee this area. Its, as mr. Hickey i believe mentioned previously, this is a regulatory or disclosure statute. It is not a criminal statute. And department of justice is responsible mainly responsible for the administration of it. Its just that we understand that fera is merely a disclosure law and since fera requires a lot more disclosure than the lda, one would think and hope that the fbi would proceed in looking at the fera databases. So its an editorial comment, thank you mr. Chairman. Thank you mr. Chairman. Let me oak coe the concerns that a number of folks have raised that i think its unfortunate that the democratic angry res t resistance has extended to the level of obstructing nominees across the board and now shutting down the Committee Hearings as this one will be shut down in two minutes, i think thats unfortunate that that you have senators unwilling to do the jobs they were elected to do. Your Office Conducted an extensive review of the National Security division. This included the review of fera, or as more accurately described as the nonenforcement of it. In your opinion, is the nonenforcement the result of a conscious decision or merelily a lack of coordination in the department of justice . What we saw was a lack of coordination and the fact that there were a handful of cases over a 16year period, raised concerns to the community that should be registered voluntarily. If its a lack of coordination, where is the process breaking down . We saw very different opinions among agents and the usd over what it meant to handle these cases, and i think as was just mentioned, the National Security division, the attorneys responsible for the regulatory scheme really has to take the lead on coming up with an enforcement strategy, coming one the fbi to move forward to make sure that folks are registering voluntarily, and if not registering voluntarily, there are cases and investigations that result from that. The fera registration unit requires voluntary registration. The u. S. Attorneys offices are seeing the failure to file and looking at these cases and believe there are willful failures to file, they need to at the nsd secure those cases and we heard concerns about how that was going on, reviews of evidence, concerns about jury appeal that prosecutors thought they were in the best position to determine, based on their districts and what they knew about their districts and that was an area of concern for us that there would be that kind of a dispute between prosecutors in the field and the folks at main justice. Thank you and i think the committees time has now expired. The twohour rule goes into effect right now, i thank all of you for participating and the hearing will be recessed tomorrow and well hear from mr. Well start out with mr. Browder. It will be 9 00 tomorrow, if i didnt make it clear. This morning outside of the Senate Judiciary Committee Hearing on Foreign Agent Registration Requirements, senator Lindsay Graham spoke about u. S. Attorney general Jeff Sessions. The chairman of the Judiciary Committee sent a very chilling tweet yesterday, there will be no confirmation hearing for a new attorney general in 2017, if Jeff Sessions is fired, there will be holy hell to pay. If sessions did go after mueller it would be the end of the trump presidency. Right now i have no reason to believe that mueller is compromised. If you have reason to believe that mueller is compromised and shouldnt be serving as special counsel, let me know. This afternoon army chief of staff general mark milley will speak as the National Press Club Official of the army. On monday, President Donald Trump spoke to thousands of boy scouts at the National Scout jamboree in west virginia. President trump talked to the children about the election and health care debate. Thank you, everybody, thank you very much. I am thrilled to be here. Thrilled. And if you think that was an easy trip, youre wrong. But i am thrilled