Greensboro on to unc were laura and i spent some time for year before i moved on to West Virginia university. Andcompleted her masters has had a very her first job was at stratford and hall, the birthplace of robert e lee. Recently, she is the deputy education director at the Hampton Roads naval museum. She works as an educator and does special event. She also worked at fort munro museum. Today, she will be speaking to shipwreck. Vil war in my seven years here, i dont think we have done any naval operations. She will be talking about shipwrecks of the uss cumberland before she comes on page. Note that laura and her husband have recently published a book. You can see a copy of it just in front of the podium. The title of the book is never. All me a hero me introduce laura lawfer. [applause] afternoon. How is everybody . Good. They went after lunch. I have to start out with a matter of disclosure. At the United States naval museum, everything here is my opinion. It is not endorsed by the u. S. Navy. I think you see why as we go to this talk through this talk today. Things we will focus on his Civil War Battlefields in a different way than you usually do. We are losing the fight to preserve some Civil War Battlefields. You might not know it where here in gettysburg over 6000 acres have been safe. On a front, Civil War Preservation is failing. Maybe next have been plundered, abused to see underwater wreckage as salvage. U. S. Problem shadows all naval wrecks around the world. , then ships and planes final resting place for many u. S. Sailors. Direct said unprotected sit unprotected the wrecks sit unprotected. They are victims of diverse and plunderers who seek to take pieces of the wrecks for themselves. Many said on the bottom of vast oceans. Need specialized diving equipment to get to them, but Civil War Navy wrecks are whereularly vulnerable they said in shallow waters. The story i would like to tell , the ussabout toots cumberland and florida. Ope by the end of us individual appreciate these two. The years, these ships were victim of an intentional plunder. Since the end of the civil war, the u. S. Navy has claimed and held ownership of both. Over the passage of time, we have lacked the resources to protect these aquatic graveyards. In the 20th century, virginia waterman looted and pillaged these shifts under the guise of claiming and fishing. Today, we are on the verge of losing the wrecks, i think on the face of the earth exists this naval action in the atlantic. Plunder of the wrecks was allowed by the organizations entrusted to their care, the u. S. Navy. Sad story,ll this let me introduce you to these ships. It is logical to begin with the uss cumberland. The fable ship sunk during the battle of Hampton Roads. Prior to destruction, cumberland was one of the finest vessels in the federal fleet. It served in the navy for about two decades. In the 1840s, cumberland took part in three mediterranean cruises. Sent56, the navy cumberland to the new York Navy Yard were workers converted it to a fluke of war. After the ships fitting, a cruise off the coast of africa, african slave trade. By the time the civil war began in 1861, cumberland boasted monster guns. They wait 12,000 pounds each. At the time, there are some of the largest pieces of naval artillery in the world. War,eginning of the civil the ship was towed to safety when the confederates took over the shipyard. It engage forces and captured a small number of ships in the harbor. Ononally, cumberland 1862 it met its match. Some of the css regimen. For many months, m f cumberland it n aware of they drilled in preparation for this inevitable encounter. All the training did nothing to help them. That fateful morning as cumberland opened fire with her forward guns come the confederate ironclad responded with a shot that first through the starboard side, killing or wounding nine marines run of the bat. The second shell took out in a shyer entire gun crew. They kept up firing at cumberland is the ship lay helplessly at anchor, unable to bring its virginia moved away from the bow. For several moments, the ironclad cannot execute it self. Sink, itland began to appeared they might think together. The union ship was doomed. All aboard new it. Uninjured gunners left their station. They realized they had an opportunity to retaliate. Despite their losses, the Union Sailors intensify their efforts. The dead were thrown to the port side and the wounded trade below. Remaining guns cruise fire three brightside, but none of them pierced the ironclads honor armor. Morris replied we will sink with our colors flying. The bowels submerge and give the order to abandon ship. Plunged about first into the bottom of the river carries 121 men with her. In the aftermath, cumberland famous. There, two months later, the virginian was intentionally destroyed by confederate forces. Throughout the war, u. S. Solars soldiers and sailors visited the carlin. U. S. Troops recognize the sacrifice of the cumberland crew and they paid homage to the dead, recognizing that section of the james river as hollowed ground. Two years and eight months later, another important worship joined at the bottom of the james river. First of the foreign built raters, css florida. Check it in the current in a liverpool shipyard. Using a british gun bill for the model of the whole time of vessel was designed for speed and maneuverability. 1862, sent to the hes where john mack christened the css florida. Rater, florida was incredibly successful. During one of its first cruise, it captured 25 merchant ships. The carter values on these ships 1. 5 million in this was civil war money so think of how huge it would be today. They counted for an additional 22 ship seizures. After an accident layover in france, they captured 13 more merchant ships in 1864. That year, the New York Times printed an editorial, accusing diligencend lack of in catching this radar. Without calling them out my name, he blamed the and wells. He believed that wells had not sent enough ships out catch raters like the florida. Inridas career ended october 1864 when it was rammed and hijacked by uss watches since they were in the Brazilian Court port. And of the cover of darkness he rammed and ship sunk. The union crew towed it back to the United States. They anchored it off of newport news, virginia for it there, the ship sank under mysterious circumstances on the morning of november 28, 1864. Although an investigation concluded that the loss of the vessel was mechanical failures, specifically blaming leakage, most likely the crew has had deliberately scuttled the ship. Floridas reduction from a news report had created a bit of a national the suit in the navy had been required to apologize publicly for the incident. Years later, the captain porterd he said admitted giving the order to sink the ship. In short, Hampton Roads became the final resting place for two. Amous warships one union, and once confederate. It is not take for questions to arise for their preservation. After the battle of Hampton Roads, federal Government Research ownership of the wreck was never in dispute during the war. The territorial clause of the u. S. Constitution made sure that all u. S. Naval wrecks around the thed remain property of navy. It did not matter if that was on the bottom of that mary alice trench or had run aground in cape may. If it once along to the navy, it the navy. Onged to immediately after the battle of Hampton Roads, and the navy expressed interest in bringing up cumberland and seeing if it could be reused. The secretary of the navy hired massachusetts solid diver Maureen Bates to conduct a preliminary survey of these racks and his report, which was the earliest account of conditions on the sunken warship was not optimistic at all. He wrote the cumberland lies and 56 need of water, deeply embedded in the mud, healed to an angle of 45 degrees. The water is very thick and with some difficulty, we could get it out. Everything appears in confusion down there. Damagencluded the sustained by the vessel was too extensive to justify the cost of raising it. However, the u. S. Navy continued to find ways to recover property like an imperiled that they reused. For the next decade, the government sold the rights of recovery to a succession of firms. This created issues in later years because in the 19th century, they sell salvage rights and in the 20th century, it comes up as a question from some divers im going to talk about in a little while. Although the u. S. Government dollars,thousands of nothing less than a congressional act can remove the ship from the ownership of the u. S. Government. Inquireriladelphia article from 1864 noted that the navy would retain all rights to the ship, including everything of military and historic value. The article reminded potential divers that nothing they found on the ship was theirs, stating that bidders will take into consideration that the government requires the frigate cumberland and whatever may be on board her, either public or private property, will be delivered to the navy yard in virginia. Aboutestrictions artifacts did not retreat did not deter daring divers. More than anything, they wanted to retrieve the paymasters safe which reportedly contained 40,000 in gold bc on it. It turned out to be something of a hoax. In 1875, a Detroit Company claimed to have found the paymasters safe and found no gold in it. Wrote memoirs talking about the salvage activities. He said no one ever knew what was done with the safe. It was never reported that any gold was taken from it. Nevertheless, divers continue to believe a mysterious yankee trevor treasure lay on the bottom of the river. Diving on the cumberland became something of a get rich quick scheme. 19thcentury diving was not easy. A host of dangers surrounded anyone who attempted the 60 foot dive. A german salvage diver had a plan to reach the suppose it putting dynamite under the stern of the rack and blowing a hole into the paymasters cabin. Today, we could only marvel at the daring the stupidity. He handled explosives and murky water without even a portable underwater lamp. He groped in utter darkness, risking the mechanical favor mechanical failures associated with his breathing apparatus. They reported the german diver was brought up unconscious several times. He observed that though he was a splendid looking fellow, the deep water dive injured his health and he reduced rapidly and did not live long. Meanwhile, as divers went to work, the u. S. Navy expressed the ccsterest in florida. As with cumberland, there was never any doubt as to who owned it. At the conclusion of the civil war, all confederate war materiel reverted to the u. S. Government, specifically the department of treasury. When the administration was freed, the organization took hold of the confederate artifacts, including shipwrecks. In modern times, the navy wishes to study any confederate vessel, the navy has to officially request that they turn over the ships to the navy one at a time. The navy began diving after the civil war ended to transfer control from the treasury to the navy. Event, although ownership inthe wreck was questionable 1864, by 1865, it was not. Reportsbly, official concerning the postwar salvage operations on florida both government and private are pretty much nonexistent. Showseorge wests account that it was stripped by hired divers after the war. Unfortunately, west, who witnessed much of the operation declined to elaborate on the nature of the activities except to say that florida must have been magnificently built for the drivers because the state rooms were handsomely decorated. They, if they could see decorations through the floating silt and aquatic life, the florida must have sunken excellent condition. Documentary evidence shows all major salvage evidence concluded after the war. From there, the memory failed except for brief times that revived interest in the 1920s and 30s, both the Union Worship and confederate raider remained out of sight and for the most part, out of mind. The only major recovery occurred in the 1920s when the government recovered the anchor chain, sending it to the museum of the confederacy in richmond. For the next 60 years, no documented activity to lice. That is not to say no one dove on the shipwrecks or pondered them for artifacts. In fact, many watermen did just that. The 20th century became something of a heyday for the plunderers. Many owned the technology that they needed to dive in these waters. It is important to remember that historic reservation in the United States really did not take hold until the 1960s and shipwrecks were not at the top of the list for preservationists. Time, many important artifacts may have been lost during the decades because of ignorance and outright vandalism. Theinstance, the ram from css virginia which was lost in 1862 has never been found. Currently, it does not show up on any sonar ratings or any of the areas around the ship. The question remains did and enterprising watermen find that significant artifact and bring the ram up . The answer may never be known. Official interest in the wreck did not occur again until the 1980s. So many years had passed that the had to be relocated. Still, the navy expressed no interest in underwriting a campaign assuming that the would only in book only embolden plunderers. Popular novelists Clive Cussler at theas the Chairman NationalMarine Agency devoted to the preservation of maritime heritage. He decided to pursue his longstanding interest in the two ships. He believed both ships told an important story about the Civil War Navy and he believed both ships had a number of artifacts on them that should be brought up and preserved. He hired a washingtonbased researcher and local historian who calculated the probable locations of the sunken vessel. He entered into a cooperative agreement with the statebased Archaeological Agency which offered to supply divers to search for the two local wreck sites. The one thing custer failed to do was make any contact with the owners of the two the u. S. Navy. Setdecision that ultimately up a bitter rivalry between his group and the navy. The network he worked with established survey area in the lower james river which according to the research offered the greatest potential for retaining the remains of the sunken ships. Using the technology to detect different anomalies in the water, they initially could not find the wreck. Another year went by. He went back and contacted with the archaeological underwater joint ventures at this time. The joint Ventures Firm reached out to local watermen and they contacted local watermen who to obtain theried location of the ship or any location about the recovery of artifacts in that area. Eventually, they found a man named wilbur riley, a veteran clamor to knew the location of a rack right off of newport news. He admitted he had retrieved a number of objects already. Similar reports regarding similar shipwrecks and even sunken treasure in virginia waters in the past had usually proved to be without foundation. But this time, he described how he first discovered the wreck after four or five years of lost pair ofthen clam pumps in the james river and tried to retrieve them. He discovered a sword hill and handle decorated with a design emblematic of the navy during the civil war. He also pulled from the site a large copper cylinder that bore a striking resemblance to a section of bilge pump types depicted in the plans from the uss cumberland. Furthermore, he thought the wreck was about 65 feet below the surface, which is about what was expected of the uss cumberland. Locationacts and warranted a firsthand investigation. He offered to help find the ship. Several days later, he shortened his workday and transported a dive team to the site. Without the benefit of foresight, he put the boat right over the spot where his visual calculation indicated the wreck was lying. Given how difficult the how difficult it was, it suggested he had probably taken it from the said heres able to find it so quickly. In any event, the diver appreciated the watermens accuracy. As they extended their search line to begin a systematic sweep of the riverbed, they encountered an area of wreckage dominated by massive wooden eerily out ofding the mud in the murky blue. They collected artifacts to help identify the ship. One was a white iron stone plate , fabric a fragment with a manufacturers name and mark on it. A productlished it as of the staffordshire pottery of england. They also found a well preserved hair of brass gunners calibers to measure projectiles. Finally, divers found a solid cylinder composed of a single block of wood. A ball was to ensure needed in the bottom of the canon war in order to prevent an explosion when the tube was fired. It was a most intriguing figure to these divers, the nine inch figure corresponded to the smoothbore cannon from the uss cumberland. Though by no means definitive, this wasnce suggested the final resting place of cumberland. With cumberlands location known, the dive team went looking for css florida. While off shore, the divers found an underwater anomaly and dropped the buoy. A pair of divers descended and found concentrated debris showing there was a ship there and they got a few artifacts a liquor bottle dating to the correct time, a leather bayonet a copper alloy hoop of unknown function but which was probably one of the brass ornaments in the stateroom. As the salvage divers noted in 1865, reaching the wreck of cumberland in florida was not an easy task. Conditions post obstacle. Swift current and Poor Visibility hindered all aspects to the operation. Water depths over 60 feet at each site restricted ailey bottom times without the compression stops to barely over one hour for each member of the dive team. The propeller blades and tankers and barges that made their way up and down the river represented a constant source of during theirvers ascent and descent. By far, the greatest cause of consternation was a freak went disappearance of site marking buoys which were inadvertently dragged away every night as vessels passed by the two wreck sites. The two ships sat in very different states of reservation. Florida was in a did in an essentially undisturbed condition consistent with the ships more peaceful demise while the cumberland was there was barely held together. Subsequently compounded with all the destruction efforts of the salvage divers and passing ships over the decades, it accounted for the vessels shattered state. Enormousre, and quantity of dredge spoil, basically piles of dirt dredged out of the river for the shipyard nearby was dumped over top of the wreck, prompting george west, the early memoirist to conclude that no doubt now, the boat is entirely covered over. Possessedumberland unique artifacts that invoked a sense of drama. They recovered a small wooden frame, custom fitted with a small piece of glass. They also recovered a magnificent ships bell, one and a half eat high, cast in bronze. This was the hell that rang on the morning of march 18 1862 to send the crew to general quarters as css virginia came up the river. Ammunitions prompted apes for legal battle. After all, the team have brought a artifacts without turning them directly over to the navy. Admirals in the u. S. Navy were not happy about it. Dives onfirst cumberland and florida ended, customers people first turned over the artifacts to the college of william and mary. Under the expectation they would go to some Agency Associated with the college of virginia but high the United States navy. At the time, the navy did not have a permanent process which meant they had no way to educate historians about their ownership. That thus, cussler expressed surprise at finding out the navy wanting the artifacts back. It became a bitter battle. For months, he refused to turn over the artifacts. Much like a plunderer, he argued that because he was the one to get the artifacts, they were his and he could give them to do whatever they wanted to. Only through the intervention of the navys judge advocate core and the navy museum did those artifacts eventually go back to the navy. Cussler never began never forgave the navy for its intervention. He wrote a dyspeptic account of the seizure of the artifacts. Tension with vitriol, he blamed the navy for all of his misfortune. He wrote it seems the judge advocate of the navy had a dream. He envisioned my two years of research and a small fortune i spent and the indefatigable efforts of the dive team were for the navy possible benefit. He sanctimoniously claimed the department of the navy owned both ships and all pieces are of. Onstrating a definite definite lack of style and sophistication, and maybe threatened to go to court to claim the antiquities news recovery they contributed zilch. They filled the tidewater area with 30,000 jobs, the commonwealth rolled over and threw in the towel. The artifacts are now on display. Cussler had a point in some ways. The u. S. Navy was not terribly negative and failed to give him any specifics or provide any security for those ships. It had created a situation where a wellmeaning diver went down to work on behalf of preservation but failed because the navy kept him ignorant of the rules. End, cussler and his team did the work and the navy reaps the benefits. Even in the end, even in defeat, cussler believed he was in the hadt, lamenting the navy not a paid leg, as he put it, to stand on. With the the law cited navy. The property clause followed by the abandoned shipwreck act lays the ownership of the vessel firmly in the navys grip. However self was their intent, legally, he and his team of underwater archaeologists were no different than the looters who had them lettering had been plundering the wreck. Cussler believed the navy no longer own the wreck and in his navy hadargued the sold the rights to cumberland in 1862 when the navy first hired them. He believed no confederate ship could be owned by the government. His argument held no legal standing but underscored a larger problem. Most virginia waterman believed the navy did not own the and they were free to be looted. Once the cap was out of the bag and location became public, a frantic feeding frenzy occurred as they tried to seize as many artifacts as they could. The next 10 years, the cumberland and florida possessed no protection from looters who went after the ship with a vengeance. Fishermenbbers and began looting the artifact from the wreck. Word was many had their own private collections in materials from the two wreck sent probably from others in the area that were not civil war shipwrecks. They had adopted a higher at. If they had the means to halt something off the bottom, it was there. Currently this forms the greatest threat to naval battlefields of the civil war. Locals continue to see the ships as salvage, not as hallowed ground. Few Hampton Roads residents remember that 121 men went down with the ship when cumberland sank in 1862. Those men are still buried with the ship. Ton looters go through it take artifacts, they disturb military grade at the same time. Lastly, the civil war is with an active committee of private preservationists. It was a member of the confederate Naval Historical Society brought the issue of looting to the governments attention. This private citizen found an advertisement boasting of artifacts from cumberland and florida and they formed the government of this important fine. He sent a copy of the north south traders civil war magazine with breast buckles made from the css florida. Clearly, they had been hooking brass and gave it to a collector who melted it down and made it into reenactor belt buckles. Responded byt deploying two important organizations the Naval Criminal Investigative Services and the fbi. In 1990, the fbi won a big victory when it rated the williamsburg artery factory outside of fredericksburg, virginia. A search warrant filed in u. S. District court noted u. S. Property stole from cumberlands wreckage and brass and copper spikes taken from the florida and melt down into belt buckles. The fci recovered the artifacts, but it left some unanswered legal questions. The defendants included for people Larry Stevens and Gary Williams who owns the artifacts that had been given them. Men challenged the fbi, saying that the looting was accidental. They tongs the artifacts from their oyster boats but said they did not know the oven on to of the artifacts and did not know trading and selling them was wrong. One of the accused said we are just out there trying to catch clams. Stuffd have thrown the act overboard if i would have known they were government property. Historians doubted the sincerity of the looters works. The newport news believed the oyster men deliberately disturb the ship for the sole purpose of taking artifacts. Historians agreed, from the newly created underwater Archaeology Branch, david cooper argued these waterman were not rescued for casual and unintentional recovery of artifacts in the course of normal shell fishing activities. They were prosecuted for deliberate and unauthorized trafficking in antiquities that were property of the federal government and are in violation of federal and state law. They claim they did not know they were not allowed to take artifacts from the wreck and sell them, arguing there should have been security on the shipwreck to prevent them from flying their trade. They say they needed a sign to tell them that looting was illegal. From theed in ridicule historical community. As one noted, someone wanted to dig up the gettysburg battlefield because no one was doing anything about it, would that make it right . The u. S. Special assistant attorney in charge of prosecuting the men did his best to caution against the argument. Saying ignorance of the laws no excuse for taking items from the ship which are listed among the virginia historic landmarks. You could blow up the World Trade Center and say you did not know what was wrong. Same yearn 1993, the the World Trade Center was attacked for the first time. Ultimately, they pleaded guilty to the charge of pillaging 40,000 in relics. They faced up to two years in fines. And 250,000 in they ended up doing a felony conviction but the Court Allowed them to go free while paying minimal fines under the understanding they would return all artifacts to the u. S. Navy and never do this again. The two men to whom the westermann gave the artifacts pleaded guilty to misdemeanor crimes and also paid fines for their transgressions. The 1993 prosecutions of hastings, stevens and williams caused navy to take naval preservation more seriously. The underwater Archaeology Branch lobbied congress for additional Protection Measures for the shipwrecks. The archaeologist argued that the property clause of the constitution was not enough to protect the ship indefinitely 1987either was done abandon ship wreck. It did not specify the artifacts from military went to the u. S. Navy and focused mostly on civilian. After 14 years, lawmakers corrected this problem. , president george bush signed into law the sunken military craft at. While no single action made it happen, several court cases, many involving sunken foreign craft off the coast of the u. S. Eventually led to passage of the act. Act ken military craft it would not be a federal Government Act if it was not an acronym, protected ships and planes belonging to the Armed Services from unauthorized disturbances, including all vessels in american waters and all Foreign Military craft. The navys sunken military craft remained property regardless of location or the passage of time. They cannot be disturbed without permission from the navy. It also allowed the heads of each military service to begin a permitting program that allowed people to dive for archaeological, educational, or historical purposes provided they do nothing to disturb the rack. Fines for violating the act are incredibly high. The government can charge by leaders 100,000 per day for violating by diving without a permit. They can find them for any damages to leave to be incurred on the at this time. Finally, the divers Research Vessel can be confiscated by the government. With this act, the navy has a stronger mechanism to protect still relies on Educational Outreach to teach potential divers about the consequences of looting. It is doubtful the cumberland and florida will benefit in the longterm. Looters have little knowledge of that existence. If they did, some would probably not care. Has diedy, plundering down for a reason. After the war on terrorism began, newport news ship rolling impose higher security measures preventing unauthorized voters from getting near the shipyard. Theships lie just off shipyard, just off shore. This is tremendous benefits to the because there are ships in the security zone. I know it doesnt take more than a few minutes for a police boat to a cost any craft anchored above these shipwrecks. In 2001, i accompanied and horized exhibition expedition to accompany the survey of these. Please boats came by to make sure we were of no threat to the yard. We found the to be in poor condition. Both are covered over with large files of silt, which is to be expected in this high traffic area of the river. Its difficult to identify the exact shape of the uss cumberland. Little more than an insignificant lump on the bottom of the river. Probably there are no artifacts left to be found, but one wonders how many are still out . Here in the museums of looters at some point, the war on terror will come to an end and measures of shipbuilding could cease. On that day, the ships will no longer be protected as they are now. Divers will be able to plunder them with impunity once again. Saying that one day, the passage of time will completely obliterate these racks. We cannot preserve them in the water forever. However, it seems abstractly wrong to hasten their destruction through these means. For the past 150 years, humankind has allowed the corrosion to occur. The uss cumberland and florida are on the verge of extinction. The u. S. Navy needs a plan to preserve these ships. The methodology to collect artifacts for recovery and material and Human Resources to carry it out. It would be incorrect to say the navy does not care about these vessels. On the contrary. The navy cares about them a great deal. After all, these are the final resting place for those who gave their lives that our nation might live. As rear admiral sam cox said last year, if we expect sailors to fight and die for our asntry, the least we can do the navy and the nation israel member them. We make the promise to those lost at sea that we will never forget their loved ones sacrifice. The u. S. Navy has a moral obligation to keep its word. Those sailors lives happen to have been given out on the water. Naval need to have the same legion of defenders as land battles do. If some consider metal detecting at gettysburg and active heresy would also stand against those who wonder bells, plates and salvos from civil war. It got the failure of one institution, but, unfortunately, the failure of a community to protect our nations naval heritage. If we do not act, will lose the. Ight to preserve naval battles and if we lose this fight, we will lose that history forever. Thank you. [applause] i have a few artifacts i brought along to show you. Im holding a piece of uss cumberland. Lootwas part of the plundered in the early 1990s by the man i talked about. I can standeasons here and hold it without gloves on is because they shellacked it. All over it,lacked so it is not a museum artifact. At the same time, that helps us out because it means it part of our educational collection. We can take it to schools and kids can hold a piece of the uss cumberland when they are doing their battle of Hampton Roads program. This is something you dont get to do most places. Up, i would like to come have a couple of pieces of the cumberland which you are welcome to touch. I have some of the copper spikes and even some of the evidence glass thathere is a was found and some of the wrasse reenactor built buckles as well, so you are welcome to come and look at this and i can talk to you oneonone. In the meantime, let me take a couple of questions. Thank you so much for your fascinating talk. You have talked about what can be done by the navy and the government to punish those who do this. Is there much that can be done to really protect . I suppose some elements of the monitor have been brought up and as safely as they can be, and they are very special. Is that a solution or are there some elements if you bring them up on their own, would they just deteriorate or is there more that can be done the on the war on terrorism levels . I think that is probably the best way to preserve bringing up what you can. Most of the artifacts have been brought up from these. Taking it to a museum, the problem is the cost. What came to bring up the monitor turn, even though they own the shipwreck, they said we cannot do that because we dont have the money for it. The marinersnd museum stepped in. That is absolutely what needs to be done to preserve these shipwrecks when we find them. We need to do what we can to preserve them. It depends on whether it is a grave. If it is a grave, thats one of those Big Questions do you regret . You probably do not. I know when they brought the turn it up, they did not expect to find skeletons inside, but they did. To preservebest way these shipwrecks is completely leave them alone or bring up what you can and bring them to museums. It is difficult to teach naval history because you dont have the place like you have with the land battlefields. You come to gettysburg and use and on the field and you can envision what happened. But when you are teaching the battle of Hampton Roads, you are just looking at water. Its hard for people to envision that in the best ways for people to have those artifacts. Being in the archaeological community, i understand all the issues, but do you think the out will ever put the money to do the preservation . If no is the answer to that question, what about out publicprivate partnerships that have reserved have preserve land site and maritime sites all over the world . Are they sitting there saying we dont want you to do that . That we are not going to put the money up to help you . What is going on there . I will say the navy will probably never have the money for this. In the past 20 years, they have gotten better. They have funded the underwater Archaeology Branch and they go out and do sonar readings, they do protection of wrecks around the world, not just the u. S. But they are never going to have the money. I think publicprivate partnerships with being great plan. The difficulty is the federal government is creating that publicprivate partnership, getting through the red tape to get all of that done. Thats the way we have to go to be able to preserve these. To a lot of people, cussler was a visionary. Act did these laws and current rags scare people away from entering into agreements with the navy . I dont think so. From what i understand talking to the archaeologists who do this, they basically created the regulations in partnership with who dive oncussler wrecks. He doesnt do it anymore, but is organization, they worked with them. Now, they can get a permit and die for dive for Historical Information and it makes it a lot easier. Its harder for people who get caught without a permit and get thrown in jail for it, but for people like cussler who really did try to do the right thing, now, they know at the right thing is. They know we have to go to the navy and get a permit and it makes it little easier. If i was paying attention first coupleh, the of attempts to find out what wasened to the cumberland 1870s . My question is this i dont think scuba gear was invented. Stay downould they and what apparatus did they use to stay down . Ofi dont know the specifics what kind of apparatus they could use, but i know they could not stay down for more than 30 minutes at a time. Its definitely not my expertise, but they did have some sort of cumbersome breathing apparatus that im sure we could do some research on and find out what it was, but it did allow them to dive for about 30 minutes at a time. Thank you very much. [applause] thank you so much. We have until 2 45. Tj stiles will be returning to the stage to speak about jesse james. About 30 minutes. A little more than 30 minutes. We have tj stiles. He will be returning to speak about jesse james. You are watching live coverage of the gettysburg conference here on cspan3. For 48 hours every weekend, we feature the people and events that help document the american story. After this break, we will be back with blitzer prize being other tj stiles who will talk about jesse james. So,the next 80 minutes or we will travel to Silver Spring, maryland, to take a look at civil war medicine. Each week, american artifacts takes viewers into archives, museums, and Historic Sites around country. Next, we visit the National Museum of health and medicine just outside washington d c to look at items in their civil war collection. Please note that some viewers may find images in this program disturbing. Welcome to the National Museum of health and medicine. Im the Museum Deputy director and we are here today to spend a little time on a visit to the museums civil war exhibit and a special couple of other things to show you. The National Museum of health and medicine was founded in 1862, but we were known as the Army Medical Museum. A mission at the time was to specimens of anatomy and send them to washington for care, preservation and study to improve the care of the soldier. At the time of the civil war, the museum staff were doing the business of Lessons Learned. They were trying to understand the nature of battlefield those lessonsare with their colleagues and counterparts on the battlefield. This museum and its collection started during the war and in the early days, the museum was housed at the Surgeon Generals office. The Museum Artifacts are on a shelf behind the Surgeon Generals desk. In a building that we know today is the Riggs Bank Building at the white house. It wasnt until the tragic events of the assassination of president Abraham Lincoln in 1865 that the museum moved into its first longterm residents. Theatreed into fords where they stayed for about 20 years before moving to what became the National Mall and a building built in the 1880s in a building we call the old red brick. Its a building that is no longer there but was in the location where the hirschhorn gallery is today. Museum moved in 1968 from its now former location on the National Mall to Walter Reed ArmyMedical Center in washington d c where it was housed about 30 years before moving to its new home in Silver Spring where we are today. Today is a museum of 25 million objects. Most of those are in five major collections. But the genesis of that collection, the core of the 25 million objects is civil war medicine. That is the twhirl we are about to start today. So come along. We are inside our civil war exhibit here inside the museum of health and medicine. We are starting our visit in front of this skull here of an individual from a particularly renowned africanamerican regiment stood up in 1863. We dont need to know the name of this person, but he was a soldier with the 54th massachusetts called up in boston and took various different actions before arriving at the role of battery wagner in july of 1863. This soldier would have been with the 54th when they made their initial assault on the evening of july 18, 1863. You can see that this soldier died instantly from a cannon canister a 12 pound file fired from inside that or a wagner and was killed on the battlefield. There ands were stayed there, were not buried properly, and he was recovered 10 or 12 years after the war, which is indicated by the stained brown color of the specimen itself. Is the of important here skull of an africanamerican Union Soldier who died in. Ervice to his country but for viewers and visitors to the museum, they may recall the movie glory with Matthew Broderick and Denzel Washington which told this story of this regiment. This skull would have been one of the characters portrayed in that movie and is of particular interest when visitors come to the museum. The skull was near the exhibit about fragments a la bullets and shrapnel where we are able to thatabout those objects cause the injury, which was of much concern and interest to the curators of the museum at the time as much as the remains and photographs and documentary records. Collected things that are interesting artifacts like like this here. This belong to a confederate officer who were this to the battle of gettysburg and probably hoped this breastplate might do him some good. But, as evidenced by the clear bullet holes in the center of the breast plate, this officer was eventually killed. Contractn effort to the iron best iron breastplate with the small, personal notebook here. The story behind the notebook is such you can see it torn at the bottom, it stopped the bullet. We have several artifacts like this and regularly get calls from persons interested in this type of interesting story. We found that of interest and we thought visitors would like to see it, so, here it is. Part of our civil war medicine exhibit includes numerous examples of the modern surgical kits of the time. So you would see amputation saws and scalpels and scissors of all matters and types, but you would also see requisition orders because while the museum was collectingin anatomical specimens and medical documentary images, they were interested in collecting the business of military medicine at the time. Some of those are included in this part of the exhibit. We also include a fairly unique innovation. It is sometimes not well understood how prevalent anesthesia and Pain Medicine was during the time of the civil war. Sometimes people would just bite down on a bullet before having a limb amputated before a tremendous industry that was never really the case. There was Pain Medicine that ether and anesthesia was available. But one concern was that was hard to deliver this somewhat expensive medication into this system. We have a display from a confederate surgeon who developed this tool to help deliver more anesthesia further into the nostrils of the patient so it limited how much anesthesia was needed and got it weaker into the nervous system. This is a particularly unique tool and you can see it on display at the museum. The army medical exam, founded by the union army, there are several artifacts from confederate surgeons from the war itself. The other object of note is this small pocket surgical kit that belonged to a woman named mary walker who was a contract surgeon with the union army. She volunteered and was discharged and volunteered again and was discharged. Remarkably, she persisted and was recognized for her commitment and service and was named the first woman to receive of congressional medal honor. That award was stripped of her some years later. There are differing accounts of her service in the union army and i would suspect there are some concerns about her gender and some resentment about the role she played. It took as long as until the Carter Administration at the honor was restored back to marry. She never returned the metal. She resist the plea to return the metal and retained that until her death. We were member her commitment and service by displaying tools she carried when in service to the union army back in 1864 right here on display. Another element of our civil war medicine exhibit is a whole wall of a display case that has been featuring artifact and images and specimens from each year of the conflict 150 years later. We feature artifacts from the 2013e of gettysburg during. In 2015, our exhibit will feature artifacts and specimens in those last few months of the civil war, so visitors should look to see that on display. As we continue through the exhibit, we come across the story of captain henry wirtz. Infamous role his as the commander of the andersonville prison, a pow camp run by the Confederate Army and known for its terrible conditions and interred thousands of Union Soldiers. Upon their release, stories came out about the treatment that they underwent while prisoners of war. He himself was accused of a number of these crimes and claimed he could not have committed those crimes because of an injury to his right arm. He was tried and convicted. His claims failed to convict the for and he was convicted his crimes. After his execution, an examination of his arm, which we have in that jar right there showed no loss of use of any part of his arm, disproving the claim he made during his trial. Also on display are the first cervical vertebra of his neck. It shows the effect of his execution. With just prior to the hanging, so we offer that here for the public to see. Two artifacts are right here a larger examination of the study of injuries and wounds during the civil war. The Army Medical Museum sent out radical officers to all the major battlefields and units in all theaters of the war with the instruction to send specimens from their battlefield hospital in washington. Keepwere instructed to careful, detailed notes and keep with the specimen the object that caused the injury. Object and at the specimens on display, you will into thegment packed prepared specimens on display. Sometimes, they would come to washington packed in whiskey casks. There are huge vessels full of alcohol with the specimens, prior to having been cleaned and prepared, packed into the barrels for their arrival at the Army Medical Museums arrival where the staff would have taken them out of the barrels, cleaned them, prepared them and mounted them. A particularly good example. Not only did they show the structure of the bone, but they included the shell fragment that caused the injury. Another good example of the work that the museum did to follow individual cases is that of Major General barnum. Surgeon healed the skin injuries but put through a cord, passed it from the front of his torso through the hip and out the back. You can see that in a photograph that we have on display. Barnum everyones once in a while reduced the size of the cord and the injury drained the cord and over a number of years, it went from a sick cord to a small threat and you can see that in this great photograph. All of the work of the Army Medical Museum was eventually coalesced into the signature publication of the late 19th century. Became known as the medical and surgical history of the rebellion. This is the iconic effort to understand Battlefield Medicine at the time of the war and the lessons that were learned. It tabulated the types of injuries and efforts made to repair trauma, disease, and documented work on the battlefield and track cases years later after the war. Of that onart display for the public to see and the effort made to understand military medicine at the time of the civil war, that effort was never capably duplicated in the wars that followed the spanishamerican war and the wars of the 20th century. An honor to present the actual publication itself the carvings, photographs and illustrations that comprise all that remain in the museums care today. What did we asked learn . What do we understand about military medicine and medicine in general because of the Lessons Learned during the civil war . After the civil war had a grander understanding about how to deal with huge volumes of patients. There was an understanding of surgical treatment and the rapid need for amputation and infection. That end of the civil war was still prior to a better understanding of sanitary conditions that would eliminate most infections, but the military and medical officers at the time came out of the war prepared and primed for those lessons that came some years later at the end of the 19th century. Civil war medicine taught the military, the army and navy about evacuations. It became pretty clear to those involved that removing patients from the battlefield and returning them to a properly outfitted facility increase their chances for recovery and returning back to some qualityoflife. Alone had a great impact as the country found conflictsolved in the of the spanishamerican war and the lessons applied in world war i just 50 years later. We come to the story of an sickles. He will be a familiar name to many viewers and this specimen on display is one of the most frequently requested objects by our visitors here at the museum. He was infamous before the war. His activities during the war and he went stature on to live a long life, amazingly, despite the events at the battle of gettysburg. War, dane civil sickles as a congressman was involved in a duel of sorts which the son of Francis Scott key. Had beencott keys son engaged in a relationship with his wife, teresa. And he took issue with the called key out on Lafayette Square and challenged him to a duel. Sickles killed key and was put on trial. But he made an interesting claim, the first of its kind in the country. He had claimed he had become so enraged by learning of this if air that he had become temporarily insane. The jury was convinced by his argument and he is now known as the first person found not guilty by reason of temporary insanity. This is some years before the alreadyr, but sickles had quite a name in washington circles. After the start of the war, he talked his way into a commission elevated totually commander of the third core and found himself assigned to play a role at the battle of gettysburg. It is a story that is well recounted by folks who know the gettysburg story well. Inclined tonot follow orders and led his men ahead of the union line and suffered for it. His men were almost thats prepared by the staff. Noun to the fashion that you see here. The story goes on. He would even visit the museum on the anniversary of his leg amputation. Theres record of a visit where he asked what was left of his foot. The curator responded, general sickle we didnt preserve that part of the specimen. Just this part shows the unique trauma that we wanted to showcase. According to legend, sickle didnt ticket to wealth. We also have this specimen on display here during the bone belonged to a private dutch cunningham, but it is notable because this bone was something that was recounted upon by walt whitman. Was awhen whitman nurse and served in Washington Area hospital, washington working at during and after the civil war. At some point the staff was able to associate what whitmans writing dutch and pull stories from that time, with specimens that were held in the collection here at the museum. Heres a case where we are able of it as story with walt whitman with the actual goal of he cared for in a hospital during the civil war itself. Is annal stop today exhibit on the assassination of Abraham Lincoln and features artifacts collected during hours of surgeons were or treating im after he was shot remember to bring with it i remember that Abraham Lincoln was shot at this theater at about 10 30 on friday the 14th of april, 1865. That this is if it is of jerusalem to dutch effectively ending the civil war. Is is at the place shot in the back of the head by john wilkes booth. Depending up for the probe would go you could determine how far the book went in. They found later the bullet was watched behind lincolns right eye. This eventually made its way into the museum holding, and it is part of the Museum Exhibit we have here on display. Surgeon general barnes and or and medical museum staff john woodward, and another surgeon thed Edward Curtis or at president s bedside in the hours before he died. It was decided them in a postmortem would be performed very quickly. The up to see itself was performed in a room that today is in the president s dining room on the second floor of the residence. Surgeon held up the brain and a bullet fell out into a china bowl. There was a moment of silence, and with sound of the bullet, it was the only sound making any noise at that exact moment. On it by saying, something to the effect of, this is a lead all for which we cannot yet measure the calamitous effect. Some fragments of lincolns school who are retained. Some were stuck in dr. Curtiss tools. As he was cleaning his surgical kit to that day come cut he found a bit of lincolns skull fragments. We also have some of lincolns hair. These are just a few of those fragments. Andrew curtis the 15th of april after the all caps income he discovered that the wasirt had shortcuts stained with the president s blood. This is curtis he cuts those shortcuts off, and the put them into an envelope, which they signed and endorsed. This is one of those. The fragments of bone and here were in the care and equipment of others for many years. Most were collected in the early 1950s by an army medical messiah or are named home helen pirtle. It had for the most part been on display at the Army Medical Museum for many decades. We hope you wonder this is a torn ligament civil war medicine in the art of x related to the assassination of gramlich in your theme nationalism of health and medicine. Its important for us to share these artifacts that convey lessons and history of military medicine from 150 years ago. Thats the inspiration for much of the museum does today to carry on that mission and legacy of military medicine today and in the future. We hope you will consider visiting the museum if you are in the washington dc area sometime soon. You can watch this or other american artifacts programs at any time by visiting our website, cspan. Org history. In case you missed it on cspan retired brigadier aneral gerald calloway on possible threat of Climate Change on national security. If you go back and told her field manuals, this one from the 1980s face, their terrariums most significant aspect of battlefield combat. Whether its runways that have to be opened sleek and labeled them, whether it still can see is what the hill you will climb they are in change right now the military is concerned about that. The military has long had an interest in dealing with things like this and forecasting what might have them. Or punishment of and brother at townhall meeting. I want to know why we didnt have to [applause] in the beginning of the are not interruptions going to be taller rated. Pleased to down, sir . This whiskey has the floor, you do not. What you please sit down . Would you please sit down . Go out in the hallway. [applause] thank you for leaving. King thatenator angus a hearing on the foreign Intelligence Surveillance act. 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In 1979, cspan was created as a Public Service by americas Cable Television companies, and is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. What you are American History tv, 48 hours of running on American History of early and cspan3. All us on twitter. We are live from gettysburg, pennsylvania today for the annual Civil War Institute conference posted by denver college. We continue now with our live coverage. Im a member of the History Department here at the college. Im also the director of it cwi. Pleasure back to to on George Armstrong book heed upon a is 00 know the winner to put surprises. He will speak on another mistake the study of him by tj stiles. Its really at the point of a new wave of civil war scholarship focusing on guerrilla warfare. Will ft. Myers yesterday theyve all been doing work on what many have considered to be the periphery of the civil war. Wenks to these scholars now have a more expansive view of civil war military history. Isse james unfortunately sometimes perceived as a robin f