Transcripts For CSPAN3 New FCC Chair Ajit Pai Testifies On Capitol Hill 20170313

Nomination judge neil gorsuch. Well hear from the former law partner and some former law clerks live at noon eastern here on cspan3. Federal chair joined clyburn and Michael Oreilly at a Senate Oversight hearing. Net neutrality and wireless Broadband Access. This was first appearance on capitol hill since becoming head of the fcc. This is just under 3 hours. Good morning. Welcome to todays hearing on oversight on the federal communications commission. I should point out since this committee has jurisdiction over sports that last night, the South Dakota State University jack rabbits punched their ticket to the ncaa 2a tournament by winning the summit tournament. I know im getting gavelled down here by someone, but okay, good. That was applause. Thats what youre soeupposed t do. Listen, the last time we met, i think 6 years ago and a lot has changed since then. Weve got a new fcc chairman and new majority in charge of the agency and many, the first fcc oversight hearing but last hearing, i said i hope to see changes to how commission operates and treat each other fairly, respect the law and be willing to ask guidance and seek consensus whenever and wherever possible and still in the early days, im heartened because the new fcc leadership heeded this advice. First actions under chairman pie were to make much immediatneedes to improve process and transparency. Counter to the recent predecessors saw to amass much power in the Chairpersons Office as they could and instead, empower the public and others and under his leadership and a rural state and still without broadband and services. Long delayed second phases with the Mobility Fund and the connect america fund. The commission could move forward so quickly with the universal service fund items with Agency Transition begs the question why they were not completed much, much sooner. Nevertheless, it is retreshifre to bring broadband to every corner of the country and see the fcc move with a. M. Radio and broadcast television to better serve the American Public. I recognize not everything the commission will do will be as nonpartisan or positively received as chairman pies agenda. I was a vocal critic and recognize it will not be an easy task to rectify some of the agencys missteps. The 2015 title 2 order and the subsequent broadband privacy order. While im sure theres other actions that need to be revisited, i think we need to hit reset on both of these items and im glad to see the fcc ha stated parts of the rules. As i suspect everyone knows, i feel pretty strongly the best way to provide longterm protections for the internet is to pass bipartisan legislation. But since we dont yet have an agreement on that front, despite goodwill on both sides, no reason to hold off whats doing to rebalance the regulatory posture under current statutes. Should not distract from other areas as well. For instance, the fcc is in the final stages of the broadcast tv incentive auction which has been a real success. 84 mega herz have been reallocated to billions of dollars dedicated to deficit reduction. The fccs work is far from complete. The clock will soon start on the broadcaster repacking process and this is no small undertaking for the agency or tv stations. I urge the commission to do everything to ensure this transition is successful and occurs as quickly and responsibly as possible. Robocalls address another problem that need to be addressed. A positive step in the right direction. The government must do everything that we can to protect consumers from those truly the bad actors, one reason why this committee is also worked on antispoofing legislation. I would note, well be busy with fcc nominations. Chairman pie in his holdover and renominated him to another full term. Theres obviously two vacant seats on the commission and clyburns current term expires at the end of june. The most important thing is that we not allow the fcc to fall below a functioning quorum. I know no responsible person would willingly deprive the agency of its ability to protect the marketplace in ensuring the agency is sufficiently instituted a priority of mind this year. So thank you and recognize the Ranking Member nelson for his opening statement. Thank you, commissioner chairman. I welcome three members of the fcc including the new chairman in his first appearance as chairman. The president has renominated him and given him primary responsibility over what this senator believes and one Consumer Protection agencies of the federal government. The last eight years, the fcc has had the consumers back. Ultimately, for this senator, the success is or failure of the commission rests not on the fulfillment of wish lists, but on how those who are least able to protect themselves have been treated and whether First Amendment rights including those of journalists are vigorously protected. So since sassuming the chairmanship in the last few weeks, fcc chairman pie under your leadership has acted to prevent millions of broadband subscribers from receiving Key Information about rates, terms, and conditions of their service. Acted to guarantee that broadband subscribers will have less protections with respect to the security of their own line data while promising to further weaken the duties broadband providers owed to protect the web browsing history and other personal information of paying subscribers. And by the way, that will arouse people pretty quick when you start stealing their personal data. Lett threaten the expansion of broadband from low income americans by limiting the effectiveness of new Lifeline Program reforms and the thing in the last few weeks, formally rescinded an fcc staff report detailing the implementation of the agencys comprehensive erate modernization effort that sent shock waves through schools and libraries across the country which are worried that you all are going to try to up end this highly functioning and bipartisan program. These are actions that directly impact the lives of millions of americans. I hope theyre not signs of things to come. Because at the end of the day, the fcc has the responsibility to put the Public Interest ahead of special interests and just as it has with its past chairman, congress expects the commission to uphold the laws it has passed and enforce the regulations properly adopted by the agency. And thats what the Public Interest and this senator has and will continue to demand. Now, theres something left undone that hasnt been done. And that is the three of us right here were just talking about it. Discussing my frustration with the fact that jessica ros rosenwursal is not seated here today in front of us. The failure to confirm her in the last congress that was made a commitment as an exchange of the appointment of commissioner oreilly, that commitment was never fulfilled and thats a black mark on the senate. And the president s decision to pull her nomination last week i think was in fortune. I hope that the white house is going to correct that and nominate this impressive Public Servant for another tfcc term once again. If so, its imperative to the Senate Leadership for the promise and confirm her without dispatch. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, senator nelson. And i would share your high level of interest in getting a full compliment of commissioners and i hope that we receive those nominations soon and we will process them very quickly through this committee when that time comes. I do want to recognize the commissioners we have in front of us today and thank you for being here. Well start that i would not congratulate and the agency has work ahead of it and getting it soon will start on the right direction and if lucky, perhaps, if you perform well today, this could be your double nomination hearing allowing us to move quickly toward that confirmation and commissioner, neil clyburn, welcome, its good to have you here and commissioner Michael Reily and well start with you, if you make your remarks and then turn to commissioner riley. Did you get that . If you perform well. No pressure. Ranking members of the committee, thank you for holding this hearing today and i would like to thank the confidence hes shown in me to serve a second term at the fcc. Before discussing the matters ruling to the agency, i would like to offer a personal monote. I grew up in the great state of kansas and i am an Indian American. A few months ago, i made a professional in kansas and thus, quite painful to me to learn of the coldblooded murder and the shootings. I cannot fathom how those involved must feel. They cannot capture how this would hurt particularly those of indian descent who call kansas home and i want to say my thoughts and prayers are with the families. To thank for the courage he showed in risking his life and to stand alongside the millions of kansasians is saying the perpetrator is the despicable exception with the spirit of openness and respect in the sunflower state. Returning to the focus of todays hearing, id like to discuss four fcc priorities. Promoting innovation, protecting consumers and Public Safety, and reforming the processes. First, high Speed Internet access or broadband is critical to opportunity. Its unavailable or affordable in too many places. The fcc can more efficiently target funds under usf programs and revising relations by reprograms and deployment friendly practices. The first six weeks of the chairmanship, weve already taken bold action along these lines. We adopted on a bipartisan basis a 4. 5 billion plan to advance 4g lte across our country. We finalized rules on a bipartisan basis to provide 2 billion to deliver fixed broadband to unserved americans. Weve eliminated outdated rules so that providers can spend on broadband deployment and established for the first time, the Advisory Committee that will, among other things, develop a model code for localties interested broadband friendly policies. Second, promoting innovation. Creating innovation friendly regulatory viertory environment. Too often, theyre unable to bring them to market for consumers because outdated rules or regulatory inertia stand in the way. I want the fcc to facilitate rather than frustrate innovation. Last month, for example, we proposed to allow broadcasters to adopt the next Generation Television standard on a voluntary marketdriven basis and also authorized first ever lte devices in the 5 giga hertz band and allowed to benefit from free data offerings. Third, the fccs core mission is to serve the broader opinion interest and that means protecting consumers. For instance, all americans seem united in their disgust of robocalls. They are the number one Consumer Complaint the fcc year in and year out and no wonder. Evening ye every year, receive approximately 4. 6 billion robocalls. This month, for instance, the commission will vote on my proposal to allow carriers to block many spoofed robocallrobo. There is no reason why any legitimate caller should be spoofing numbers so they appear to becoming from an an invalid or unassigned tophone number. We helped enable those who are responsible for the recent wave of bomb threats. I hope this measure among others helps brings the perpetrators to justice. Tou fourth and finally, justice reform. I hope to make the fcc more transparent. I found it strange that the public wasnt allowed to Seek Commission items until after voted. Lobbyists still in the know but Everyday Americans in the dark. At long last, that is changing. Last month, i made public the full text of two draft items on the agenda as part of a pilot project. Things went so well, last week, i made public the draft text and fact sheets for all six items for the march meeting. Thats just one of the many ways i intend to make the fcc more accountable to the American People. I look forward to implement more. Chairman, members of the committee, thank you, and i look bard to continue working with you in the time to come. Chairman thune, Ranking Member nelson, members of the committee, good morning. It is an honor to once again appear to share my priorities for putting consumers first. During my more than 7 years as an fcc commissioner, i have been an advocate for those whose voices far too often go unheard. This means looking out for nations most vulnerable populations including families who should not have to give up food or Health Care Just to keep in touch with an incarcerated loved one and means enabling br wr broadband for those at or below the poverty line so they can apply for help services. My vision for competition affordable connectivity, reliable service, no surprise billing, and an open internet for all informs what i would like to share with the committee today including several of the issues at the top of my priority list. When we talk about the principles underpinning an open internet, larger question must be asked. Will there be a cop on the beat many a broadband world . When we rightly talk about finite universal service dollars and supporting just one provider in a remote area, we cannot rely on the disciplining forces of the competition. As a protector of consumers and enabler of choice in the broadband ecosystem. If not the fcc, who will consumers turn to when their broadband provider tl er thrott their favorite web site and what if there were a billing dispute, poor service, privacy concerns . These underlie the many reasons i strongly supported the commissions 2015 open Internet Order and continue to believe it provides the best Legal Framework to protect consumers, innovators, and entrepreneurs. Consistent with the ftcs privacy framework, i am proud of the steps taken by the fcc last october to empower consumers to make informed choices about their personal information and give broadband providers the flexibility to comply with the rules in a manner that works for their company. I am committed to do everything i can to ensure consumers have the tools to recollect their proo privacy in a broadband world. Much attention is on open internet and privacy, the inmate calling regime continues to be the greatest and most distressing form of injustice i have witnessed in my 18 years as an industry regulator. We cannot continue to turn our backs while a wife pays as much as 24 for a 15 minute call with her husband. I applaud the leadership of booker and duckworth on these issues and look forward to working with all interested offices to ensure that an inmates debt to society is not paid again and again by sons, daughters, mothers, fathers and grandparents. I applaud focus on broadband infrastructure and access. The fccs universal serviceman date can be described as a fourlegged tool with four different programs, working in concert to close the Digital Divide. Collectively, these programs are enabling rule broadband deployment, improving Rule Health Care, theyre bringing about connectivity to schools and libraries and its tackling the affordability gap. We cannot leave out any leg of the stool and expect it to continue to stand. This means we need action on reforming our Rule Health Care program. It also means being courageous about reforming the contributions system which is increasingly becoming a heavy burden on Senior Citizens who can ill afford to shoulder the burden of nationwide broadband deployment. Turning now to our media own ownership rules, i believe the conversation must start by asking how we move the inclusion and opportunity needle. For those seeking to fulfill the dream of owning and operating broadcast properties. To this end, i support reinstating an fcc tax certificate program, working with the broadcast injury to start a Pilot Incubator Program to aid new entrance or disadvantaged businesses and increasing diversity both in front and behind the camera. Finally, we must focus on enhancing Consumer Protection. In a consumers report survey last year, over 172,000 subscribers of only those who were surveyed, only onethird of those say that they were very or completely satisfied with their home internet, pay tv or Telephone Service. As a commissioner at the Agency Responsible for overseeing the communications sector, this is highly alarming. We can and must do more. There are many more issues i hope the commission will tackle including streamlining of the broadband infrastructure deployment, tele health. My written testimony addresses these issues in greater detail but once again, thank you for the opportunity to present before you today and look forward to answering any questions you may have. Thank you, commissioner clyburn. Commissioner riley . Thank you, thune and riley to appear to address and discuss the important work occurring at the communications commission. I would like to raise a handful of issues and get ready to stand any issues you may have. Led to a change of leadership. Theres a breath of fresh air and a new spirit of cooperation not rent in tpresent in the las commission. Let me applaud on the internal workings and procedures that had been a long cause of hien. In approximately five short weeks, the new chairman has improved the accountability of the commission from fixing not existent postadoption privileges to releasing text of documents at the same time theyre shared with commissioners to ending the practice of providing outside parties with information before commissioners were in the loop. Processing for them has been necessary for the chairman and hopefully, more to come as i s have a number of ideas with scope of information and Data Collections. On another topic, it is discouraging to admit that a core function of the commission, protecting the integrity of Commission Granted spectrum rights is not sufficiently achieved as it pertains to radio stations. They are infecting the radio band as the Consumer Services including communications and the function and Financial Stability of licensed radio stations. Thankfully, i believe the situation is fixable and preventable. It will take enforcement commitment and diligence as well as new limited and targeted statue authority for pirated radio. It is a high priority to ensure Broadband Access is reasonably available to all americans. To facilitate this, ive been intensely involved with the remaining pieces of the High Cost Program or connect america fund. At the same time, standing in the way of greater Internet Access nationwide are barriers imposed by state and tribal sbi entities and attempts to extract access to rights away and accompanied by favorable land, tax, and approval procedures. Many see the benefits of broadband deployment and there are bad actors that likely require preemptive measures by the commission and lastly, having returned from representatives suggest increased concern that via different forups continue to see great and i believe the possible expansion of government interference and activities remain longterm threats to growth of the internet. Thank you again for the opportunity to testify and i look forward to your question. Ill ask if we can adhere to get everybody in and well try and enforce that more closely with the gavel and mr. Chairman, former fcc chairman who served during president clintons term said that youre off to a very good start by all accounts, set a constructive tone with the agency and met with them all individually and reacting very positively and the office of Personnel Management calls global spatisfaction based on te jobs and organizations and willingness to recommend the good place to work and 2013 to 2015, global satisfaction found more than at any time, any department or large agency in the entire federal government, a lot more. And this was during a time when government wide actually increased. This is a Disturbing Development and i know this is something youve inherited but will you do your best to address this serious problem . Yes, mr. Chairman. Both because im a chairman and because i spent years as a former career staffer at the agency and take this issue extremely seriously and committed to doing whatever we can to provide an atmosphere with the professional staff. Commission rules require the quorum for the agency to fully function without limitations. It has been suggested that you may have the ability to deny by leaving before your term expires at the end of june or refusing to attend open meetings. Will you commit to serving out your full term and doing your part as a confirmed member of the commission to ensure it maintains a quorum . Mr. Chairman, what you read has never been suggested or hin hinted by me. I have no plans to do anything that would yep dies the functionality of the institution that i love so much. Thank you. Chairman pie, as part of the universal Service Reform in 2011, the fcc established a minimum price with the Television Companies mischarge for local Television Service or risk using universal support or known as the raid floor. Although the Commission Grant and increased every year and appears to have been little effort to assess the impact these are having on consumers and Service Providers in Rural America. Do you have any concerns about the ever increase floor and is this something you expect the commission will examine . Thank you for the chairman. I have substantial concerns about the rate floor and i was outspoken about it several years ago because it struck me as odd that under commission compulsion, forced to raise rates that ruled consumers with relatively less Median Income that would have to pay to get Telephone Service and working about and happy to work with you and your staff as well. What were to happen if it suddenly went away . Is it true that consumers would be left unprotected and would the the fcc be obligated under act . Thats correct. The carriers would still have their on obligations and Data Security and the notification requirements. And commissioner riley, youve said youre comfortable with the you said youre comfortable with timely institution of 5g equipment, what tools are available to the commission that could be used to help speed deployment of 5g and other next generation gig bit Wireless Networks . Working with the chairman, we talked about the good actors, the steps they have taken, and there is model code we have talked about, number of different positive things but i do believe that at some point we splay to get into use authority provided by the congress to preempt some bad actor communities that are preventing broadband from being disbanded throughout our nation. I think thats good for me for now. Ill hand it off to you, senator nelson, and well keep this moving along. Mr. Chairman, im going to let our guys go first and ill do cleanup so ill flip it to senator shotts. But i just want to make sure that you all understand that erate, which was set up and it was supposed to be looked at in 2018, it is so essential broadband to our schools and our libraries. And i would expect the fcc not to make any major changes on this Vital Program for students until after you evaluate it pursuant to the way it was set up in 2018. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And thank you, commissioner pai. Congratulations on your renomination, but many of us were disappointed that the president pulled the renomination of Jessica Rosenworcel last week. The senate should have confirmed her to a term last year and im counting on everyone to honor their original commitment. I certainly hope we can get back to the long tradition of pairing these nominees so both jessica and chairman pai can move through the senate floor quickly. This is a question for all of the commissioners. Congratulations to all of you for overseeing a successful incentive auction, the first one of its kind. We all want the Faster Internet Service and better coverage that will result from the auction, but i have concerns that consumers could lose access to their local broadcast stations if channels are forced off the air and the repacking process. The three of you previously said that if the stations cannot repack in the 39month time frame, they would not be forced off the air. Yes or no question for each of you, starting with commissioner clyburn. Would all of you support legislative efforts it make sure that does not happen . I would support any effort that would complement our goal of ensuring that no consumer is negatively harmed. Thank you. Senator, i agree with commissioner clyburn. Without being insult, depending how it read, i would agree. Thank you. Chairman pai, is the fcc going to review the at t time warner merger . How i understand how the parties structured the transaction, there is no license transferred from one party to the other, which as you know is the jurisdictional hook under the Communications Act for us to apply what is known as the Public Interest standard. And so far as that remains the case, my belief is that the fcc would not have the Legal Authority to review that transaction. And have you asked the fcc staff to conduct an independent legal analysis to confirm the fcc has no role . I have not at the current time. Would you be willing to do so and share it with the committee . I would happy to do that, senator. Net neutrality in the context of the merger, if you move forward with the repeal of the open Internet Order, and we failed to pass legislation, and yet the comcast merger had Net Neutrality requirements conditions in it, how do we ensure a level Playing Field with the at t merger, and one of the major competitors will still be bound by that original requirement . Senator, there are a number of hypotheticals in there i need to sort out, but i think the basic answer is that we want to act within our authority, of course, to protect the Public Interest. And in the context of a transaction, that simply depends on whether or not the transfer of a license is in the Public Interest, with respect to transactions past, it involves the question of the enforcement of conditions that were agreed upon by prior commissions. And in the general rulemaking process, of course, there are other factors that go into the analysis. I cant give you a simple answer. The Practical Impact will be there are two giants, one has to abide by Net Neutrality and one doesnt. Right. Chairman pai, i wanted to follow up on a private conversation that we had, regarding the commission itself. And something ive talked to actually all three of you about. In one of your previous oversight hearings you criticized the previous chairman for the large number of party line votes under his tenure and said it wasnt always this way, it was once understood that no Political Party had a monopoly on wisdom, and we recognize the Communications Issues arent necessarily partisan issues. And yet for first two issues you tackled, it has been two to one. I understand that you have a different perspective and youre in the business of implementing your point of view. But what assurances can you give the committee, the telecommunications community, the commission itself, its staff, your democratic commissioner of your commitment to try to get to 50 votes whenever possible . Thank you for the question, senator. I very much appreciate your perspective. The top priority that i listed in my testimony today and my comments to the career staff and my second day in office was that i wanted to close the Digital Divide. And two of the topics that were sitting on the shelf for a while involve the Mobility Fund, Wireless Service to parts of the country that didnt have it and the connect america fund, giving fixed broadband options to underserved americans. To my staff and the bureau were to work with commissioner clyburn, hear her out and try accommodate her concerns and ill let her speak for herself, i would like to think the end product which we validated was a bipartisan one that will deliver Digital Opportunity to millions of americans. In terms of process reform as well, she suggested, well, i understand that you want to push out these items once we make them once we see the consideration at a meeting. What about doing one page fact sheet to make it easier for people to understand. I said thats right. Lets do it. I implemented it immediately. Thats the spirit i want to carry with me throughout the chairmanship to the best ability that i have. Thank you very much. Thank you, senator shotts. Senator wicker. Thank you very much. And thank you all for your testimony. Chairman pai, lets talk about bringing broadband to economically challenged areas. This is something that commissioner clyburn emphasized in her prepared testimony. You were successful in moving forward two major universal service fund items including phase two of the Mobility Fund. These will undoubtedly help bring Broadband Services to rural and hard to reach areas. You have four major initiatives in this regard, i understand. So tell us about your plan to emphasize areas where average Household Income falls below 75 of the national median, making requiring states and localities to have deployment friendly policies and i think you used that term in your testimony also. And then tell about tax incentives and zones that you might designate for the use of tax credits. Thank you, senator, for the question. This is something im passionate about. I outlined in september a what i hoped would be a bipartisan blueprint for action regardless of who assumed leadership of the commission precisely because i thought these ideas knew no partisan angle or affiliation. I had a proposal for congress to give us the authority to set up gig bit opportunity zones. The idea here is you would create a Geographic Area as small as a city block in an urban environment, or as large as a rural county. And in which the Median Income of citizens in that area was 75 or less of the National Average income. And the idea would be that to provide tax incentives to providers to build out in those areas and part of that also would be a requirement that states and localities adopt broadband friendly policies, so that deployment was eased in terms of access to rights of way and pull attachments and the like. Additionally to make sure entrepreneurs can take advantage of those networks, my idea was to provide a some relief for the employer side of the payroll taxes for new companies that want to set up businesses in those areas. That way people who live in those areas who want to create jobs in those areas would have a greater incentive to do so. It was drawn from the spirit of former secretary john kemp at the housing and urban development and my thinking was, why dont we update for the 21st century his idea of about enterprise zones and this could give people who are in poverty, dont have Economic Opportunity greater chance to achieve prosperity in the digital era. Aim hopeful that we can do that. This will require legislation. That is correct, sir. And commissioner clyburn, what do you think about such legislation . If such legislation allows us to do what we do best, if such legislation also recognizes that affordability is a factor when it comes to adoption of services, so we look at all of the universal principles and tools in our arsenal, i think it would be a good series of steps forward in terms of bridging those gaps that currently exist. But affordability has to be a part of the conversation. Chairman pai, commissioner clyburn says there is an affordability gap. Do you agree with this and what would you do about it . I do agree, which is part of the reason and the response that chairman thune compreexpressed h concern about the rate floor. Here too we need to do more to ensure consumers have competition choice and Affordable Access to the internet. Thats something im committed to working with her and you about. The distinguished Ranking Member wants to the commission to be proconsumer. I think we all agree with that. It seems to me that reversing the Net Neutrality rule with regard to free data and zero rating has turned out to be pro consumer in that not long after you terminated the investigation into these practices we saw a series of new pro consumer unlimited data offerings coming to the market. Do you think they that that new flood of opportunities came as a direct result of your action in this regard . Senator, i dont know if it was a direct result, but i do think it simply confirmed the wisdom of our approach, which is to recognize it is a highly competitive marketplace and wireless carriers have a strong incentive to compete for the consumers attention and as a result now, all four National Wireless carriers are offering new or expanded unlimited data plans. Thats a great thing for consumers. The public really liked that . Correct, sir. Thank you very much. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, senator wicker. Senator booker. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman. On the point made and before i get into my questioning, i want to reaffirm that i may have a firm commitment, unwavering commitment to the ideals of Net Neutrality and the 2015 fcc Net Neutrality rules that were put into place which are now the law of the land. They were upheld now in court. And a lot of doom and gloom was predicted that this was to happen, but clearly the sky has not fallen, businesses frankly are have continued to innovate in this space, were seeing a lot of very positive results. And im really hoping that there is a commitment to this to Net Neutrality here not just in the committee, but also among the commissioners. But obviously well have time to talk about that. I just want to jump into really another area of bipartisan encouragement, just this idea to Broadband Access. Which is i think so important for when it comes to creating a robust access to education, to telehealth, this, to me, is something of great urgency. As most people know, i have a big concern about the way the criminal Justice System is operating that is profoundly become a tool to create disparities in our country. And these disparities are stunning, just, for example, there is no difference between blacks and whites in america for using drugs, or even selling drugs, but africanamericans are about 3. 7 times more likely to be arrested for those nonviolent drug times. As a result of that, you have situations like my state where africanamericans are 14 of the states population with over 60 of the prison population. Our prisons are full of people, people of color, disproportionately poor people in general, disproportionately people with Mental Health challenges, victims of sexual abuse, and im just fiercely committed to this idea of trying to make our society fairer for all americans, equal justice under the law and to empower people who are affected by the prison population by mass incarceration problem in america so when theyre paying their debt to society, they can come out and be successful. All the data is showing that when people are in prison and the federal wardens, i sat and met with, talk about the urgency to keep a robust connection to family ties. And thats why ive been very committed to trying to do everything to make that robust. We have 2. 7 million children who right now are separated from an incarcerated parent. Theyre facing challenges on growing up as well and those links and those connections are vital for the children, for the families, and for the rehabilitation of a person who is incarcerated. And so this issue of Affordable Access it calls is not just about, hey, a guy in prison making a call, this goes fundamentally to a core priority that all of us have right and left to making sure we drive down recidivism rates and support families. Video visitation is on the rise, which is, again, something that ive talked to numerous wardens who think and people in the bureau of prisons who think this is strong. Commissioner clyburn, can you just let me know that if the fcc loses this case that right now is in court, what are the potential consequences for the issues that im passionate with and i know people on both sides of the aisle are passionate with. I have one word for that, it would be devastating. It would set us back in terms of the efforts that we have attempted to do in terms of closing that gap to keeping families together, to ensure that more than 39 of the population impacted, that they can keep in touch. The number hovers around 38 or 39 of people keeping in touch because they cant afford to. And so where it is affordable, we have seen the conversations spike, and we have seen families when there are 700,000 inmates that are released back into the society every year. And if the majority of them go home, as strangers, because they didnt have the opportunity to speak, then by the time five years rolls around, 75 of them are back in. This is a family issue, this is a criminal justice issue, it cannot be decoupled and providing just reasonable and fair rates to families pays dividends to all of us. And ill ask some other questions i had about the lifeline broadband provider issues that ive written to you about and hope we can talk about. I would love for you in the last seconds i have to respond to commissioner clyburns sense of urgency as well as mine. Thank you for the questions. I said when the fcc teed up this proceeding that it took too long, the petitioner should not have had to wait almost a decade for the fcc to finally heed their call. I also suggested early on that i thought this marketplace was broken. This is not a normally functioning marketplace with the wireless marketplace we just discussed and the exchange with senator wicker and so i agree that the commission has authority to adopt a certain rate cap for interest state rates, authority to regulate ancillary fees and some other subsidiary issues. There is a question that the d. C. Circuit is highlighted in terms of the stays of the various orders of the fcc had and were working through those. My commitment to you regardless of how the case goes is that we want to make sure that the fcc does everything within its Legal Authority to fix this problem and we would be happy to work with you on that. Senator fisher . Thank you, mr. Chairman, and thank you to all of the members of the panel for the work that you did last year on the rate of return reform orders. I have heard from a number of nebraska companies who opted into the cost model and they were pleased with the results and i appreciate your efforts on that. I continue, though, to hear concerns from nebraska carriers that they are not permitted to get universal Service Support if they provide stand alone Broadband Service or that they must charge their customers hundreds of dollars a month to recover their cost for stand alone broadband. So, mr. Chairman, do you have any thoughts on ways we can solve this problem so that rural customers have the option to buy affordable stand alone Broadband Service . Thank you for the question, senator. Ive seen the promise of stand alone service for myself in places like diller, nebraska. I very much appreciate it. Also it feeds into the affordability question we were just talking about a little bit earlier. This is precisely the reason why two years ago i put on the table a very simple public one page plan to allow rule carriers to offer stand alone Broadband Service. And my concern with the rate of return reform last year is that for carriers to be able to calculate how much support they would get, they have to jump through 11 different hoops, very quite technical and complicated and at end of the day, they dont necessarily yield enough funding to make stand alone Broadband Service either viable for them to offer or for consumers to accept. So my commitment to you is to working with you and others who are interested in this topic to make sure that we make the regulatory system more streamlined, more efficient, to allow consumers to offer stand alone service. Thank you. Im a little defensive. I spent a great deal of time on rate of return issues. And you have been to nebraska. I have. Many of states. To the point, i appreciate the desire to be simplified, when we talk to and worked with closely the carriers, they preferred a model that wasnt as simplified. We had a choice to go on direction and they would have been much easier and preferred another model we were able to come to agreement about. Your point is well taken in terms of is it available, todays stand alone broadband. Thats in the hands of the carriers themselves. I know in meeting not with your state but in other states, the carriers said it doesnt matter if you pass this, im never going to split off the offering of voice product from stand alone broadband. Im making too much money off that. But i have carriers who want to be able to offer that stand alone Broadband Service. And really not be penalized for it. Right, they are provided the subsidies that under the mechanisms that we design so they are not penalized for offering that product compared to a bundled product today. As long as we can make sure that customers, the consumers out there in rural areas, have that available to them without it costing hundreds of dollars a month. Right, we had to find the right price point of how much we could afford to subsidize in terms of our overall budget. That was an agreement we came with all the carriers and found what we found was a rather heavy happy place. Okay. Commissioner pai, also you mentioned streamlining. And i appreciate your willingness to streamline regulations and processes so that we can encourage that innovation. Last week we had a full Committee Hearing on infrastructure deployment and i asked shirley bloom field about the broadband funds maintained by the fcc and if it is necessary to maintain the number of programs that are out there. Not just under you foblks, but the department of commerce, department of ag, there is a lot of funding that is available. What im hoping to do is look at encouraging broadband deployment, but also we shouldnt have to duplicate efforts. And so do you think that we can streamline programs that are out there, whether it is with the fcc or other agencies, so that we can avoid the duplication of that funding and make sure we can have existing networks that are needed but also not overbilled . Thanks for the question, senator. I dont presuppose to Tell Congress how it should structure all the programs, but i do think it would be helpful to unify them or streamline them to some extent. I recall early on in my tenure, doing a town hall meeting in kansas, with senator moran, a number of carriers told us, on one hand, we have a line of credit that is outstanding from the department of agriculture. Were not taking it because the fcc is telling us, if we do, there will be very significant regulatory restriction on how we spend it and the like. It occurred to me that if we had a unified system that gave greater clarity to the recipients, it could be better for everybody at the end of the day. I hope thats something that congress will take up. Thank you very much. Thank you, mr. Chair. Thank you, senator fisher. Senator udall. Thank you very much, chairman thune. And congratulations, chairman pai, on becoming chairman. While we may disagree on some issues such as Net Neutrality, i think we have a shared goal of extending modern Communications Access to all americans. That must include native americans who face a terrible Digital Divide on tribal lands and i know commissioner clyburn has seen that first hand in my state. Today i want to ask you about the president s open hostility toward Media Outlets that many of those Media Outlets have business before the fcc and how you intend to lead the fcc in this climate. This would this could directly affect matters before your agency, and the First Amendment issues that you have been outspoken on. Your official fcc biography states youve been an outspoken defender of First Amendment freedoms, it described your advocacy in 2014 that helps scrap a proposed study of barriers, to entry into the media market place. And in an oped you wrote and i quote, the government has no place pressuring media organizations and covering certain stories, end quote. And in response to an interview question last year, about whether there is a, quote, a role for the fcc to play in keeping the political elite from trying to suppress trump supporters, you replied, certainly, i think one aspect of it is the fcc using the bully pulpit that it has to continue advocating for free speech. And you added, and i quote, i would hope whoever the president is, americans would return to the tradition that we had of respectful and robust public debate, thats something becoming increasingly rare. And end quote there. Today President Trump is using bully tactics to try to intimidate the media. Hes even declared certain Media Outlets and i quote, he called Media Outlets the enemy of the American People. His press secretary, sean spicer, took the unusual step of barring some journalists from attending his daily press briefings, chairman pai, many news organizations or Parent Companies have business dealings with the fcc from regulatory matters to potential merger reviews. So i would like to ask you a couple of questions that i think can be answered with a simple yes or no. Do you agree with President Trump that the media is the enemy of the American People . Senator, i dont want to wade into the larger political business. You refuse to answer that . No, senator, i media being the enemy of the American People . When you met with President Trump, and the oval office, and at trump tower, did you discuss any issues related to the media . Senator, i will leave the details of those conversations to the white house to determine. Im not at liberty to say. And did you discuss any specific company that interacts with the fcc . Again, senator, i cant comment on the conversations ive had with the president. I would leave that with the white house to disclose. Will the fcc operate independently of the white house . Absolutely, sir. And will you resist any attempt by the white house to use the fcc to intimidate news organizations . Well, senator, i have said consistently including just last week in an International Forum to the regulators and companies of the world that we are an independent agency, and for any matter that is placed before me, i will take a sober look at the facts based on the papers submitted by interested parties, render a decision based on the law and precedence and apply it to the facts and make a determination based on what i and my colleagues think is in the Public Interest. White house chief strategist steve bannon told an interviewer in january, and i quote, the media should be embarrassed and humiliated and keep its mouth shut and just listen for a while, end quote. Do you agree with him that the media should keep its mouth shut . Senator, again, im not going to wade into the larger political debates beyond the fccs would you as an fcc commissioner make a comment like that to the media about them keeping their mouth shut . Senator, i certainly have not made comments like that. I heard it at home every now and then when i dont discharge my personal responsibilities, but ive not said things like that. The white house the wall street journal recently reported that the president s soninlaw, jared kushner, raised concerns with the time warner executive about cnns coverage of President Trump. The article quotes and notes that time warner owns cnn and has a merger pending potential antitrust review. So have you had any discussions with or contacts with anyone in the Trump Administration about cnn or any other news organizations . Senator, no, ive not had any conversations with him or anyone else in the white house about that transaction. And will you immediately report to this committee if anyone from the white house contacts you or your staff about taking any favorable or negative action regarding any media or Communications Business . Senator, i will commit to following all the appropriate protocols and ethical requirements that apply to that sort of conversation. Thank you very much. Senator udall. Senator moran . Chairman, thank you. Chairman pai and commissioner orielly, commissioner clyburn, thank you for joining us. I use this as a moment to compliment all three of you. I appreciate the relationship we had with you and your staff. The open and receptive way in which we work together. I thank you for your Public Service, commissioners. And commissioner pai, id like to thank you for your comments in your opening moments of your presentation today. I appreciate the heart felt nature, shocking occurrence in our state, and something that we highly, highly deploy. My first visit to as i returned to washington, d. C. After that was to the embassy of india, to express the concerns that we wanted to have with the families, those who came here from india and to express the belief that kansasens are warm and welcoming people. I thank you for your comments today and express my pride and your and other Indian American success and particularly Indian Americans from kansas success. Thank you so much. Thank you, senator. Couple of quick questions that i would like to raise, i know my colleague senator schatz raised the topic of repack. I guess he solicited from you and received your commitment to work with him and i assume that includes the rest of us on the committee should a repack alteration be necessary. Let me ask a couple of more specific questions about that. Did you believe that the commission adequately assessed the size and scope of the repack when it first was formulated when the Commission First formulated its transition plan . Thank you for the question. I did have some concerns about the agencys course, but a lot of decisions have already been made and so at this point, our goal is to work to ensure a smooth and Successful Transition and it involves in the leadup to the end of the auction, coming up soon, putting out a scheduling Public Notice, working with broadcasters to get cost estimates back and other steps like that. So stay tuned as the best answer i can give you, we want to make sure we work with everybody involved. When will you know if money set aside for the repack is sufficient . We anticipate that three months after the close of the incentive auction, well get cost estimates from the broadcasters. At that point, our task force, tremendous job, will be able to take stock, figure out how much money they estimate it is going to be. If that number is within the 1. 75 billion that congress allocated for us for the repack, then we will take the appropriate action. And when will you know if the 39 month time period is established by your predecessor as sufficient . That will depend in part upon when the auction closes, and there is some petitions for reconsideration that are pending, that raise some questions about that as well. Were going to take us were going to go where the facts take us and were not sure what the time frame will be for that auction to close. To switch topics, the Mobility Fund phase two, congratulations on getting an order adopted for that fund. Im pleased to see were moving forward. I understand that the order recognizes there is a need for a robust challenge process. I agree, we had this conversation several times before about coverage maps, and the challenges, fallacy. Can you explain how that auction im sorry, a challenge would process would actually operate . Thanks for the question, senator. First and foremost, the congratulations and the credit are due to my colleagues sitting along side me working in good faith to put a product on the table that i think will benefit the American People. In terms of the challenge process, this was inspired by a drive i took last summer or last fall from wichita to des moines, struck by the fact that in a lot of places the fcc might suggest we had coverage and we didnt in fact. We want to make sure this challenge process is robust, it gives the American People and the fcc Accurate Information about where consumers are covered and where theyre not. Thats one of the issues we teed up in the Mobility Fund document we put out was to figure out the best way to ensure the data is accurate. If the map is accurate, great. If not, we want to make sure we act on the basis of affirm and accurate data. Let me ask commissioner clyburn and commissioner orielly if they have any comments they would like to make in regard to either of the questions that ive that have been answered by chairman pai. As you know, i have been pushing for next phase of Mobility Fund for some time. And i am happy to see its conclusion. When it comes to the challenge process, that is something that i am very passionate about also. I want to make sure that those who are challenging are not disadvantaged, that they have a means of affordably and open and transparent manner, being able to say, no, this is not the case. So i am very proud of this, very open and interactive process and look forward to continuing to work with the parties to make sure that we have accuracy and a process that will enable us to meet our goals. Thank you. I agree with my colleagues. I pushed for inclusion of an improved challenge process knowing what it needed to improve our mapping, and back to your questions on the repack and pieces to those, i said i would be the first one to come to congress if additional funding was necessary, and in terms of the timing as well. I am i think it is a little premature to get to that point. Your question is when will we get to that, were still months away from there. Thank you, all three. Im pleased to see were having a conversation by three commissioners, not the normal dialogue between two. So it is good to have this set of witnesses here. And ive also been in a room with senator thune and recognize sometimes i never get asked a question either. I want to make sure you have the opportunity to make your record known. I think the senators time has expired. Thank you, senator moran. Senator peters. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And thank you to each of the commissioners for your Public Service and we appreciate having you here today and appreciate your openness to discuss these important issues. Chairman pai, you have said that the Commission Must commit itself to being a truly independent agency, that makes decisions based on facts and law, which is certainly appreciated you making that comment. And i know that you are aware that in september of 2015, chairman thune, Ranking Member nelson, senators booker, rubio, mccaskill and i sent letters to the fcc, the dot, and ntia endorsing a plan for the joint testing of two proposals for spectrum sharing in the 5. 9 gigahertz band and i understand that or i know that testing is currently under way now. This band is vitally important to the automotive safety systems, which will dramatically decrease highway deaths and will be a major advance when it is fully deployed. So in keeping with your commitment to transparency, and lettinging t inthe data drive t policy, can you commit to making public all of the data that is collected by the fcc during the bench and field testing phase . Senator, i would be happy to do so with the caveat that to the extent there is confidential or trade secret or other law enforcement, for example, information that might otherwise be revealed. We would be happy to make public whatever we can. Im not sure there is. But i want to make sure that we abide by whatever rules and regulations apply to Sensitive Information. I understand that. Everything else will be made public . Well ill be happy to take a look at that. Im new to this issue as well. We would be happy to do whatever we can to make it public. Great. So i would ask that you commit today that the commissions final determination on spectrum sharing in the 5. 9 gigahertz band will be based on sound Engineering Data which will undergo rigorous and open review. Others will be able to fully review the decision that was made. Any action that we take in this area, any area, has to be based on a firm, factual foundation. Great. What is your target date for making a final determination on spectrum sharing . Do you have a date now . We dont yet. Im scheduled to sit down with our office of engineering and technology, the other experts at the agency and try to discuss some issues and id be happy to get back to you if thats okay with more specific time frame. Im unable to give a date at this point. Fair enough. I appreciate if you can contact my office as something were obviously following very closely and would love to have that dialogue with you. Absolutely. What has been the commissions experience in coordinating with dot and ntia during the transition to the new administration, that coordination will be essential for this process. Thats a good question. We are already in the process of doing outreach to both the department of transportation and to ntia and my commitment and my instruction to our staff was to make sure that we are plugged in as we can be to make sure that the one agency is not acting to the exclusion of any other and so we want this to be an open and cooperative dialogue moving forward. I appreciate that. Also, chairman pai, i want to pick up on senator morans discussion and questions related to 477 data which will be critical for us to make sure that our rural areas actually get service. We have a big issue in michigan if you look at who may qualify even though we have rural areas that quite frankly simply dont have service, but it appears as if they do, which is not reality. It really goes to the heart of the issue which is beyond the challenge process, which we want to make sure will be vigorous and fully open. But we really is to change the maps. They are simply not accurate as far as what i am hearing and have been told. How are we going to go in and fundamentally make sure we have good data because it is going to be on just the Mobility Fund phase two, which is important, but other issues as well that will arise. We need to have good data or we cant make good decisions. I couldnt agree more with the last sentence you expressed. I think it is critical not just for Mobility Fund, but for any program the fcc administers to make sure that our data is accurate. If you see a map, it suggests the up is green when it is not it is clearly not. Having just come back from there. We want to make sure we capture accurately the realities on the ground and thats part of what were hoping to iron out in this challenge process, but even more generally, with respect to 477, make sure the information were getting is correct. And thats one of the ive got to this committee and to our own professional staff by going forward. I would like to work closely with you on that as well, it is of critical importance to many parts of my state and look forward to your commitment to it. Thank you. Thank you. Senator senator peters, senator young. Thank you, chairman. I want to thank the commissioners for all this time were spending with us today. Im a new member of this committee. I thought i would very quickly lay out some operating principles that i intend to follow as i interact with the fcc. Before i do that, just know that i reviewed the fcc strategic goals promoting Economic Growth, protecting Public Interest goals, making Networks Work for everyone and plo everyone, i think implied in those goals is is just a general effort to make sure that you serve the broader Public Interest. With that spirit in mind, im looking to partner with all of you, to promote the following. Private sector innovation, transparency at the fcc, bottom up solutions as opposed to d. C. Driven policies and sustainable and wherever possible bipartisan policies that give our job creators the certainty that they need to innovate. Commissioner orielly, in your testimony, you spoke at some length about process reforms that you believe are important to create an efficient, transparent and effective fcc. I couldnt agree more. Process is policy so frequently. I would like for you to give more specificity to what you laid out in your testimony. Ive long been a champion of congress reasserting its role with respect to reviewing major regulations, and making sure what we have in place is still relevant, serves the broader Public Interest. Why do you believe it is important to create a new bureau of economics within the fcc. And are there other bureaus within the fcc that you believe should be consolidated perhaps to better reflect regulated industries . So i appreciate the question and put forward a number of different process reform ideas, most dealing with the internal workings of the three of us remaining. But your point gets to the question of cost benefit analysis. Something that the commission has not done. Even though previous chairman have promised to do so. I believe in cost benefit analysis. If you read items as i read every item that i vote on, if you read them, youll see the cost benefit analysis is sorely lacking. They do some on the cost, but very little benefit is quantified. Even though it can be difficult, it should be done. And so i had difficulty with our current structure in that the economists are scattered throughout the different bureaus today. There is no continuality between the different items you get. One may be better than the other. Another will be completely lacking. There may be a sentence or two about cost benefit analysis. And it always comes with the same form. The benefits are large, and the costs are whatever they are, but theyre always exceeded by the benefits so we have to go forward on this item. That is not quantifiable. You also discussed in your testimony, the need to reform internal processes. What additional authorities do you require, if any, to make this sort of reforms that you think are necessary. Thanks for the question. I think we have a lot of tools in the toolbox under sections 4 and 5 of the Communications Act. We do have the authority to organize ourselves to promote efficiency and administration. There are some things that lie within congress purview and considering for example a process reform of its own. Reforms of the sunshine act to allow the three of us to collaborate, which we cannot currently do without running afoul of restrictions. And consolidated reporting so that instead of sending up a bunch of reports that consume a lot of staff resources, very few people read, we provide you a unified product that would better enable you to discharge your legislative responsibilities. Thank you. I want to commend you on your efforts to close the Digital Divide and that of other commissioners and look forward to working together on that effort as a matter of followup here. I would like to ask you, seeing as a president , has proposed, we pass a major infrastructure package at some point, in the fairlier y er inear term. What lessons have you learned about broadband buildout and if congress were to appropriate additional funds, do you have thoughts where you can get the most bang for the buck . I think the biggest lesson ive learned is that america is a very challenging place in some cases to deploy broadband. The Business Case for the private sector wont necessarily be there, and so we need to think creatively in terms of the stewardship of federal funds under our administration, modernizing our regulations to ease that Business Case, and to encourage others as states and localities to adopt broadband friendly policies. Those three tools i think are things that we can and should be implementing. With respect to the infrastructure plan, i hope that with due respect to the white house and this body, that Digital Infrastructure is it is one of the first things that people mention is that they might leave their small town or not have the opportunities that others have because they dont have Internet Access. Thats something im committed to solving and to the extent that congress can help us solve it, that would be terrific. Thank you. I yield back. Thank you, senator young. Next up is senator cortez matso. It is a pleasure to meet all three of you. I look forward to working with you. Chairman pai, congratulations on your renomination. I look forward to an opportunity to sitting down with you and talking a little bit more about the issues were discussing today and some others as well. Thank you, senator. Let me start off, im really interested in a couple of things, rural broadband, we have many areas that rural. One thing that concerns me is the hiring freeze that the Current Administration instituted. From your perspective, chairman pai, what impacts have you seen or felt from the white houses hiring freeze to your agency . First, senator, to be honest, we have been so busy producing work product for the American People that i havent had a chance to talk it our Human Resources and other administrative experts to figure out what we havent been able to do. What i can say is were making were making progress on some of our core priorities using the terrific staff that we have got thus far. And how many years have you been serving as commissioner already . Ive been a commissioner from 2012 to january of this year and it was a staffer for almost four years before that. Can you assure me the merger reviews or legal challenges arent being impacted by the need to hire staff . Can you repeat the question . Can you assure me your merger reviews by your agency or legal challenges are not being impacted by the need to hire legal staff . Yes. Staff in general . Yes, senator. Are there positions that to your knowledge that are vacant currently in the office of Inspector General . I cant recall if i believe there are a few in the office of Inspector General. I know also with the field offices there are four agent positions. Can you provide to me in writing answers to the questions with respect to the hiring freeze, the impact and where theyre located throughout your agency, that would be helpful. I would be more than happy to do that. Thank you very much. Commissioner orielly, i know that the fcc cybersecurity and Communications Reliability division works with the Communications Industry to develop and implement improvements that help ensure the reliability, redundancy and security of the Nations Communications infrastructure. What else specifically can the fcc be doing to aid in the concern and challenge of cybersecurity and Identity Theft . So, i want to be careful here, our district does a good job in providing recommendations and improving the relationships they have with the providers that we oversee. Our Statutory Authority is relatively limited in the Data Security space, something that would be open to if congress were to change those lines of jurisdiction. There are other agencies that providers do interact with and operate in terms of this Data Security, pieces of that nature. So limited to no authority right now to i think it is extremely limited in terms of the Data Security. If congress were to change that, i would implement whatever changes they sought. Thank you. In getting back to expanding broadband, we had discussions on this, im interested particularly in the access and siding on public and tribal lands and im aware of these concerns, particularly in the state of nevada, where over 80 of the lands are owned by the federal government. And chairman pai, your bio page on the fcc website references your regulatory philosophy is we need to streamline the process for deploying Wireless Infrastructure. And your empowerment agenda includes that the federal government should speed the deployment of broadband on federal lands which often impacts our most Rural Communities by adopting shot clocks for action, minimizing fees and mapping federal assets among other steps. Can you please explain to me what we can do to dress these challenges and also what commitment you can make to help me get access to more nevadaens impacted by some of the hurdles . Ill start with the last part of your question first, which is that youve got my hearty commitment to work with you to make sure that all nevadaens, but especially rural nevadaens have access to Digital Infrastructure. I saw that for myself on the outskirts of roono, fixed wireless provider providing high speed connectivity to the nascent tesla factory out there. It was incredible what they were able to do in challenging environments with respect to Wireless Connectivity and wireless and the like. With how we can encourage deployment, i do think we need to speed the ability of providers to deploy on federal lands. Currently it takes twice as long if you want to get a permit on federal land taas it does on private land. We want to make sure to the extent were talking about Wireless Infrastructure, that the Wireless Infrastructure of the future, the small cells, distributed, arent subject is to the same onerous requirements that would save a couple hundred foot cell tower. Those networks will require smaller infrastructure. We want to make sure we work with all stake holders to ensure wireline infrastructure is more easily deployed. For example, carson city, one of the topics we talked about was you dig once. Makes it a lot more sense. If youre going to dig up a road as part of a federal transportation project, why not also install at the same time the conduit that allows any provider, small, big, whoever, to be able to lay the fiber and provide a competitive alternative to consumers. Im glad you said that. I dont mean to interrupt. I think what youre saying is so important. One of the areas id like to see, i hope this is something that you could take on, would be establishing or dedicating efforts to an Interagency Working Group of partners to tackle these challenges. I heard a lot of discussion about, yes, it is happening and we have challenges, but no action to try to actually get something done. Is that something you would be dedicated to helping us with in nevada and any other state that has similar challenges . Absolutely. It is almost frankly, in are way with the direction with what i called my broadband deploym t deploymentedeployment Advisory Committee. Thank you. Thank you very much. I look forward to working with all of you. Senator cortez matso, you were having a conversation about the mobile now bill. Senator caputo is up next. Welcome to our witnesses who ive had the opportunity to special l personally speak with all of you and i appreciate your service. Chairman pai, i appreciate you coming to West Virginia and walking the catwalk at the new river gorge bridge. I look forward to seeing you scale that, rather than walk it. Thats a good laugh. No more bejesus left to be scared out of. Thanks. I appreciate the conversations that we had. I know you had a lot of conversations with folks about Rural America and i really appreciate your digital empowerment agenda. I appreciate the explanation you gave earlier, i will not take the opportunity to ask you for that. I with like to know in terms of best practices for states youve mentioned this, in terms of citing and power pole siting and dig once and all those kinds of things, do you as a fcc chair plan to come out with some sort of recommended state initiatives that would help us, because you saw when we were in Fayette County how difficult it is even in a small state like ours. Absolutely. That experience really informs a lot of the decisions that were making now. I do think that we need to have a set of best practices that would enable states and localities to move forward if they want to allow citizens to have Digital Access and one of the things that we are going to charge the broadband deployment Advisory Committee with is creating a model code so that any jurisdiction can take these policies off the shelf without having it hire people to study the issues and et cetera and be able to say we want to deploy broadband. We know theyre going to be in the consumer interest. And let moos mos move forward those. States dont have the expertise and a lot of times perceive to have many more barriers than what really exist. I appreciate that. Commissioner clyburn, thank you for coming to morgantown, and visiting the press and memorial hospital. You were on your connecting communities tour. What were your two topline takeaways from that tour that you included West Virginia in . What would you say . Broadband and more broadband. I like that. So when we got a chance to come off the mountain after i got my sanity back, if you have been up with her staffer, you will need medical attention, one of the things that i saw on this 11 state tour, that included your beautiful state is that every single challenge that we had in america can be improved and enhanced by broadband connectivity. As we know, every Single Community is different, every Single Community has, you know, they have has its challenges, and part of the challenge is that the Business Case cannot always be made. So you need entities like ours. You need ntia, you need rus, you need all of us to come together and say what can we do in a very targeted manner to bring connectivity to these regions. So thats what thats the takeaway, thats what i hear when i go everywhere, we need connectivity to make sure as you mentioned, mr. Chairman, you really do not have to move. You should not have to relocate in order to thrive and survive and to and to be productive in communities. Thats what were all about. Thank you. Thank you. I would be remiss if i didnt mention as a force of reinforcement we dont terrorize people when they come to West Virginia. It is rather hilley there. I do have a new role, mr. Chairman, as chair of the Financial Services general government appropriations subcommittee which appropriates for the fcc. So in case you didnt know, i thought i would bring that up. So i wont bring up my Mental Health issues. Okay, thank you. Mr. Orielly, one thing we talked about in my office was this white space issue that i think could hold some great promise in Rural America. And i think there has been some discussions on the regulatory space around white space and simplifying and making it easier, more clarified for some of the providers. Could you talk about that briefly . Absolutely. As we talked about in your office, the opportunity of the space between Television Channels within a market that can be used for unlicensed purposes, wifi and this Committee Looked at this issue for a long time. Were further down the road, which is very good. The software, some of the technology, has been a little lacking than i would have liked and we should be further along. But i think it has improved and the commission made a number of changes in the last two years to improve the detectivability to make sure there arent false positive positives. What you can do with that, and part them together with a number of Different Companies that operate in unlicensed band is remarkable, theyre able to do small slivers and able to bring connectivity to bring the internet of things available and wearable and all things that come from that. I would note that West Virginia university is in partnership with air dot u using this white space for to connect their two campuses and make sure that other students are always connected as theyre moving back and forth between the campuses. Thank you, all, very much. Thank you, senator caputo. Maybe the senator from West Virginia will have to share with the other members of the committee what it is that shes done to the fcc commissioners to make them so agreeable. Next up is senator klobuchar. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman. Thank you to the three commissioners and all the work you do. Congratulations, chairman pai. And i know this was raised earlier, but we really need as you all know to have a full slate of commissioners and i hope the president will renominate Jessica Rosenworcel as i always note not only is she really smart, but i like she has a name harder to pronounce than my own. We like to get that done. Broadband deployment as senator caputo and you just noted, commissioner clyburn, is the infrastructure challenge of our generation. Senator caputo and i are two of the five or six cochairs of the broadband caucus and i recently wrote a letter to the president with the cochairs that was signed by 48 senators urging the president to include broadband as part of any Infrastructure Initiative as we know the mobile now act that passed the committee in january included my provisions to advance dig once policies and expand wireless coverage. Senator thune and i have pushed for the stand alone broadband reforms. Chairman, why is direct federal support like the fcc provides through the universal service fund critical to deploying broadband in the rural parts of our country . Thank you for the question, senator. I think the core reason is because in too many parts of the country, you simply cannot build a Business Case for deployment. And so, for example, in places like where im from in kansas or in iron range in your state, it is going to be difficult to in the absence of federal subsidies through the universal service fund to figure out a way to lie fiber or deploy Wireless Infrastructure. Thats something that, again, were working on a bipartisan basis and im hopeful we can solve zwli sta solve. I started working on issue and im glad the administration and the proposal we recently put out for 12 million in infrastructure on the democratic side include infrastructure. Were hopeful when something comes out, it will include broadband in the infrastructure. Im cochair of the 911 caucus, commissioner clyburn and i know you worked on some of these issues and senator nelson and i have announced were putting a draft together on next gen 911 act of 2017. Locality issues, things like that. Could you talk about the importance of the transition to next gen 911 . It provides us provides us w continuity, it provides us the ability particularly the american citizen when it comes to the most stressful part time of their lives, it provides them with more certainty and more robust options when it comes to connecting with their Public Safety access point. There are 6,800 of those in this nation and honestly they are not all created equal. So we really have to do what we can to bridge that particular gap when it comes to providing services and catch everyone up so that next generation 911 is truly a reality. Thank you. Chairman pai, the senator lee is here and he and i work on antitrust, thats our subcommittee over in judiciary and weve heard from small independent programmers that most favored nation clauses create a hurdle that prevents consumers from being able to access their content, others maintain that mfns are pro competitive. Last year the commission issued a notice of proposed rulemaking on this issue. I understand you dissented at least in part because of process concerns. What are your plans on moving forward with that notice of proposed rulemaking . Thanks for your question, senator. The comments period just closed a couple weeks ago so our professional staff is taking stock of whats in the record and at some point i will be able to sit down with them and try to figure out the appropriate way forward, along with my colleagues. Okay. Do you want to add anything to that, commissioner clyburn . Yes, this was something that was of great interest to me. I heard from dozens of independent programmers who say that most favored nation clauses that are unfavorable and unfair, you know, other practices, very limiting in terms of their online experience, very limited in terms of the access that they had and very limited by way of the viability of the business. So im hopeful that chairman after careful review will move forward with this item because i believe that this needs our attention. Okay. I agree with the chairmans review process. Thank you to all of you. Thanks. Thank you, senator. Thank you, senator klobuchar, next up we have senator markey. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Regard blee the congress and fcc have already fired their opening salvo on the war on Net Neutrality and the open Internet Order and broadband privacy protections are the first victim. Yesterday senator flake introduced a resolution that would undo the f ccs broadband privacy rules by utilizing the Congressional Review Act or the cra, and last week the fcc stopped the implementation of the Data Security protections of the rules which could make subscribers Sensitive Information more vulnerable to breaches and unauthorized use. I fear that this is just a preview of coming attractions and congress or the fcc may take further actions to roll back these critical privacy protections because Big Broadband companies dont want to give Consumer Privacy protections the attention which they deserve. The privacy rules that are on the books arent cumbersome, theyre not complex or complicated, theyre common sense. They simply, one, require the Internet Service provider to get consumer consent before using or sharing subscribers personal information. Two, promote transparency by mandating that the isps tell the consumer what theyre collecting about them, and three, ensure that the isps adopt data, security protections and notify consumers if a breach occurs. Thats it. Thats what the whole fight is about. The Big Broadband companies dont like it. They dont want to spend the money to give the consumers that information. They would not as a result have to abide by those robust privacy protections. Commissioner clyburn, isnt it true that Many Americans across the country dont even really have a choice as to their broad panned provider so if they dont like the privacy protections that the Internet Service company is providing they dont have another provider to really go to affordably . Absolutely. There are very few places that have two or more options for individuals. And isnt it true that consumers pay incredible amounts of money each month in order to have access to the broadband . Absolutely. So killing these fcc privacy rules through a cra would create an unregulated wild west where captive consumers would have no defense against abusive invasions of their privacy by their isp. The rules are on the books, the broadband providers dont like it, theyve always fought it. They are definitely in a situation where they think they can finally escape having to have robust privacy protections in place. The headlines every day warn us of what can happen with smart tvs, with smart devices, with the broadband revolution makes possible in terms of the compromise of the information of innocent americans. This is just another example. Now, moving over to Net Neutrality, the open Internet Order, the Census Bureau reported that the u. S. Broadband and teleCommunications Industry spent over 87 billion in Capital Expenditures in 2015. Meanwhile, last year, almost half of all Venture Capital funds invested in this country went towards internet specific and software companies. And yesterday over 170 organizations sent a letter calling on the fcc to promote Economic Growth and preserve competition by maintaining the open Internet Order. And i ask unanimous consent that this letter be entered into the record. Weve hit the sweet spot. We have 87 billion invested by the Big Broadband companies, we have half of all internet half of all Venture Capital going into internet and software companies. Thats what you want. You want that kind of a dynamic. You want the innovation over here and you also want the deployment of broadband. It is happening. There is no problem that needs fixing. Commissioner clyburn, has the open Internet Order really made broadband providers unprofitable . Is it really discouraging these companies from investing billions of dollars in their networks . All of the reputable figures that ive seen say no, that an investment is occurring. As you mentioned, Venture Capital money is flowing. And according to sec filings where you are to identify if there are any issues or barriers when it comes to a particular process or an action, there was no identification of the open internet being a negative when it comes to investment opportunities. So im going to fight very hard to protect those privacy rules that are now on the books and im going to fight very hard to protect Net Neutrality. Believe me, the 4 million americans who communicated the last round on these open internet issues are just going to be dwarfed by the number of people out there who are going to be concerned if privacy and competition rules open internet rules are taken off the books. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, senator markey and senator nelson wants to mr. Chairman, ive got another commitment that im going to go. Since i was going to do cleanup i will defer that by submitting my questions, particularly to you, chairman pai, for the record and i would appreciate written answers to the questions. Yes, sir. Thank you. Thank you, senator nelson. Senator lee. Thank you very much mr. Chairman and thanks to each of you commissioners to be here. Its an honor to be with you, this is my first fcc oversight hearing as a member of the commerce committee. Im glad to have you here. I wanted to begin my questions and remarks today by sharing the words of a previous fcc chairman. William kinard who served under president clinton. He wrote the following in 1998, he said, quote, our vision for the future of communications must be a bold one. We must expect that in five years there can be fully competitive Domestic Communications markets with minimal or no regulation. In such a vibrant, competitive Communications Marketplace the fcc would focus only on those Core Functions that cannot be accomplished by normal Market Forces. As a result, the traditional boundaries separating the f ccs current operating brewer rows should no longer be relevant. In five years the fcc should be dramatically changed, closed quote. Chairman pai, i will start with you. Tell me what you think about the comments made by then chairman kinard, whether you agree with them and whether we have arrived at a place like the one he described. Thank you for the question, senator. I think chairman kinard deserves tremendous credit where for an early age of the internet that he foresaw that there would be convergence and that the f ccs mission would have to adjust accordingly. I think that he has impressions in a lot of ways about how the marketplace would adjust and how the commission would have to adjust along with it. Obviously the fcc has long labored under what are known as silos where we regulate a Certain Companies depending on how they are classified and what technology they use, for example, and those traditional distinctions are increasingly becoming obsolete in the modern anyone. Its one of the things incumbent upon the agencies to make sure that we keep abreast of the times with respect to our regulations and also making sure that our staff are tasked with defending the Public Interest in the most efficient appropriate way. There is a Natural Inclination in any Government Entity to look to the preservation of the entity. Theres also an obligation as these comments reveal to serve the people and as he said we need pre markets, we need Market Forces and that doesnt always cut in the same direction as expanding the power of the agency in question. Thats exactly right, senator, and thats why one of the things that ive been focused on from the getgo has been process reform, how to adjust the agencys administration and operation to make sure that we give every one of the commissioners and we ever one of our coworkers the professional staff, the chance to do what they do best which is to defend the Public Interest. On that note i was glad that my colleague, senator young, brought up that issue earlier today and i look forward to working with him and with other members of this committee and other members of the senate to help move that forward. But as you pointed out earlier, chairman pai, there are some things that the commission itself can do to initiate this process. In fact, as i understand it the administration has agreed on such a plan or has identified such a plan as kind of a priority. Do you intend to initiate this process . Thats one of the issues that has been raised. I know in the press and so thats one of the things that we are going to be looking at and we are obviously open to any suggestions for ways to improve our operations. In the meantime were going to keep focused on the Public Interest and defending it as best we can. Thank you. I appreciate that. In its 2015 open Internet Order the fcc claimed its unprecedented in sweeping title 2 reclassification was necessary because broadband providers to quote the order, quote, have the incentive and ability to limit, closed quote, the openness of the internet, to extent to which its open, yet in the course of its nearly 400 pages within this order the fcc failed to effectively prove that it was offering anything thats anything more in my opinion than a solution in search of a problem. Commissioner orielly, in the 2015 open Internet Order, how many times did the fcc refer to an what an Internet Service provider may, could, might or potentially do to block or degrade Application Services or content . Could you offer a guess . I cant give you an estimate of the number of times they did that but its been clear these are prophylactic remedies. I didnt support them obviously and the court has said they were prophylactic. They are all forward looking, they are all may, could, might, along those lines but i couldnt give you an estimate of the actual number. By our count there were several hundred instances in which this happened. This looks worse considering the fact that the fccs chief economist at the time called the order and economics free zone. Ive got more questions, i see im out of time so i suppose i can submit those for the record. Thank you very much. Thank you, commissioners. Thank you, senator lee. I would be happy to get your questions in the record. Next up, senator blumenthal. Thanks, mr. Chairman. Thank you for having this hearing. Thank you for being here. Were in an oversight hearing so you will have to forgive us for not being completely congratulatory and noncritical and i want to put in the record a number of materials, including an editorial from the New York Times dated february 10th, an editorial from the Washington Post dated february 11th and a letter from the Consumers Union written to our chairman dated march 7th. And i want to ask you first with respect to the time warner at t merger, your standard is a different one for reviewing mergers, in fact, taking account the Public Interest, and the parties have structured this deal so as to escape your rev w review. The term of the day sometimes is rigged to escape your review, but i dont want to use that pejorative. Could you commit to the committee that you will prepare an analysis based on the Public Interest standard of this merger . Senator, the fcc would only apply the Public Interest standard to the merger if it were i understand that but im asking you to do the analysis, you can say yes or no, either you will do it or you wont. Senator, do you mean prepare the Public Interest analysis to submit to congress or to submit to the committee. My only hesitation is to the extent there is no license transfer there would be no facts before us to review so we wouldnt be able to opine with any expertise on what the transaction well, if the parties were willing to submit facts to you. Senator, if its okay i would be happy to take it back and speak to our general counsels office to see what the requirements are with respect to that. Okay. And get back to you. In the time so far that the Trump Administration has been in office youve unfortunately unwound many of the rules and regulations that in my view were designed to protect consumers. Youve undone the enhanced transparency rules that ensure broadband isp consumers know what type of service they are getting, youve withdrawn proposed reforms of the Business Data Services market and pay tv set top box market that would have saved consumers money, youve moved to common sense broadband privacy rules, undermined critical programs like life line and e rate and youve backed away from rules that lower the exorbitant rates for prison phone calls as a number of my colleagues have remarked. Im not really interested in whether youve communicated with the trump white house, but it does seem that you have adopted the playbook of diminishing rules that protect consumers and furthering the interests of big businesses. Id like to know from you what possible rationale there can be for enabling Cable Companies to continue profiting by renting cable boxes 20 billion a year in revenue to them rather than permitting them to own those boxes when they could save money, 231 every year per family, especially after in my view the congress that is directed you to enable them to own those boxes. Thank you for the question, senator. I believe as i think many millions of americans agree that the right solution to this problem is not to double down on the 1990s technology of the set top box but is to eliminate the box. In my view the fcc would have been better off looking forward, trying to figure out how to eliminate this hardware that adds costs and increases inconvenience for consumers and embrace the more app spaced approach that consumers use. Part of the concern i had with the set top box proposal of my predecessor was one that was shared by commissioner rosen whistle and others on the commission and thats part of the reason why we preferred to look forward in terms of our regulatory approach as opposed to getting mired in some of the more intricate legal and policy kwag meyers of the previous approach. So you are unwilling to review your position . Senator, we obviously are always happy to review our position based on new facts and evidence that are placed before us, but we would like to move forward for consumers rather than backward. On Net Neutrality, i assume that you are aware and will follow the obligations under the apa that you would have to begin a new rulemaking procedure if you were to modify the Net Neutrality rule. Senator, for any action the fcc makes as long as i am chairman we will come port with the Communications Act and any other legal requirements that might be pertinent. My time has expired. If i can engage in another round i will but i want to yield to my colleagues. Thank you, senator blument l blumenthal. Next up senator hiller. I want to thank the commissioners for being here today. I want to begin by thanking the chairman for some of the changes that you have made on how the commission operates so that frankly theres more transparency and openness in your process. Things like releasing the text of an order before its voted on, i think thats pretty fundamental but i was always amazed that your predecessor didnt think that that was necessary. But i do think its also important that congress codify some of these changes in legislation so that the fcc maintains an openness from one administration to the next. I guess my question, mr. Chairman, are there any other processor forms right now at the fcc that youre contemplating implementing it. I think there are a number, senator. Thank you for the question. First off, commissioner i keep giving you promotions, commissioner orielly has outlined several of them and we are certainly looking at some of those. I proposed a number of them going back to 2013. For example, a simple one, creating an online dashboard so that anyone, a member of congress, a member of the American Public could see how many Consumer Complaints are pending at the commission, whats the meantime to disposition, those basic facts i think would be helpful for people to know. There are a lot of things we can do and were committed to doing them as soon as we can if we can spare the band width. I know that this has been an important issue for you. Very much so. Thank you for the question commissioner chairman pai has been wonderful in leading a number of efforts on reforming our internal processes. There are more ideas i put together 25, we probably have a good 17 to go and ive been creating new ones on a weekly basis. Delegate authority is an important issue to my colleagues, were trying to figure out how to undelegate issues that have been sent down to the staff to make decisions. I couldnted last year that nine times as many items were done by staff than were voted by commissioners and we would like the right and ability to vote on some of those without delaying or disrupting the process. Another idea that ive put forward that i think is important is to include sun sets in our rules, automatic sun sets so we would be forced to review the item. Not to necessarily get rid of the rules but an opportunity to fresh look at them every couple years rather than they stay on the books. The rules a number of rules have outlived their longevity. We have a couple procedures to deal with them but they arent getting a full review in my opinion. Thank you, commissioner. Chairman, you were in carson city a couple years ago and i certainly do appreciate you spending some time in nevada. Weve had a discussion on this particular issue and i want to share some statistics with you. And these statistics come from a range of sources. The fcc, the Wireless Industry groups, department of commerce, pugh research, we can go down that list. 99. 9 of in evidence dance have access to mobile Broadband Service. It also says 98 of nevada has access to wire line service. I really question these kind of numbers and these kind of statistics and just briefly nevada is 110,000 square miles and i know that probably, oh, 85 of them live within 10,000 square miles. Right. So we have 100,000 square miles out there that are quite rural. I will give you an example. We have a county commissioner in a county called eureka, hes also the state veterinarian and he also is a rancher. So in a conversation with him hes constantly carrying two phones along with him hoping that one or the other has service. And obviously when he has problems or issues, as the state veterinarian, if he doesnt have access clearly that can become a problem. Not only that, hes had opportunities where he could have called in a public or a fire. Several times where a public lands fire broke out on the range lands and he just didnt have access to let the emergency crews so i think that does pose a Public Safety risk. In my view i think we need to cut red tape at bureaucracy that delays the deployment of this, lift the regulatory burdens that prevent investment and find ways to access to have access to unserved and underserved areas. You and i agree on this. This isnt anything that is anything new but ive been championing these policies since ive been on the committee and even written legislation and will continue to do so as we go forward. Do you have any ideas on what we can do to speed up deployment in these areas . Absolutely, senator. In response to senator master things that would be critical in nevada would be speeding up deployment in federal lands because nevada is disproportionately with federal land. Wire land deployment the Business Case is yes, sir aer nd that involves in some cases dig once or other policies like that that would enable in evidence dance to get access to it. Fixed wireless providers doing a terrific job where fiber simply is not economical to deploy. I mentioned that i saw some of that outside of reno and i think theres Great Potential there, too. To me to be honest i dont care what technology is used to connect folks in nevada, we want to bring all of them to bear in the most fiscally responsible way possible to make sure that they like every other american has access to the network. Chairman, if an infrastructure bill includes broadband, which i certainly hope it does, how could you deploy that or how could you make sure that the funding mechanism gets to the right place where its needed the most. If congress saw fit to include it in the infrastructure plan my suggestion would be to allow some of that money to be channeled into the fccs existing programs, universal service fund distribution, we have a pretty good program that we administer to allow rural carriers and others to deploy some of these networks. Instead of having to reinvent a wheel or create a new agency you could use the existing mechanisms administered by our professional staff who are terrific to get the biggest bang for the buck. Thank you very much. Mr. Chairman, thank you and to the commish thank you for being here today. Thank you, senator heller. Senator cantwell. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you to the commissioners for being here. Chairman pai i wanted to ask you about media consolidation. This is obviously weve just been through this time period that if we needed an advertisement for why we needed to have diverse sources of media this is it. And so i wanted to get your thoughts on the crossownership issue of tv stations, radio stations owning newspapers in the same markets and what direction we should be going in. Thank you for the question, senator. In some cases our media ownership rules have been on the books for several decades so the fcc has to determine do they remain in the Public Interest in the current year. One of my concerns especially in smaller markets is as newspapers and broadcast tv and radio stations are struggling and a lot of them are going out of business are there ways we can help them stay in business and cover local news. If this is more efficient for them to be able to collect news together and distribute it on different platforms that could help them stay in business and provide a vital source of information for localities. Obviously there are other considerations as well in terms of consolidation that we have to take into account. So thats going to be part of what were discussing in the media ownership context. So in the context of media consolidation, would you say that you are aggressive or neutral or, you know, negative on, you know, making sure that further consolidation happens . Not to be glib, senator, but i cant really ascribe an adjective. What i can tell you is that i firmly believe our rules should match the realities of the marketplace were in, that includes making sure that we take account of the state of the industry, Market Structure and the like to ensure that there is a competitive vibrant marketplace that serves consumers. Im looking at your record and this is why im concerned because in march of 2013 you voiced support for pursuing a resolution of disapproval against the fccs media ownership rule and urged further consolidation and you called for a public vote on the fcc media ownership rules that would have actually increased media consolidati consolidation. Now that youre the chair we really want to understand this and understand where youre going and one of the things i think would help in this is because we have had a lot of dialogue as a committee and obviously the committee has changed over a long period of time as we have watched this issue. The fcc does have a Data Collection of information so that 2015 data about this issue has not been released so will you commit to making sure that you wont do anything ahead of publishing this data and publishing it in 2017 before any changes are proposed in media and consolidation . Senator, to be honest im obviously six weeks on the job and i havent yet had occasion to look at the status of that 2015 or 2016 Data Collection but i would be happy to work with you on that. What i can say, however, is that based on the evidence thats already in the record we know, for example, there is literally no evidence to support the newspaper radio cross ownership and everybody has conceded that is correct the Third Circuit a court of appeals has told us some of these regulations are no longer necessary. We want to make sure based on whatever the facts in the record are we take the appropriate action thats consistent with the courts instructions. Great. So there is whats called form 323 so its an fcc tool. Right. And thats about data on ownership and we want to make sure that people are complying with t youre getting the information, that were getting the information and that were reviewing it. We definitely want to have many voices in the market and obviously we have a different thing thats going on here which is the entire transitioning of, you know, the sector and the industry and how it moves. Im always telling my staff there is a reason ma bell doesnt exist anymore. Everybody says who is ma bell. So what we want to make sure were getting right is while were talking about the trons formation of whats happening in the newspaper industry that we dont confuse it with, oh, we must allow consolidation because if you allow consolidation then they will have resources. We want them to flourish as you were saying on many flat forms and not have a very hierarchical structure where one entity owns all the media and owns all the discussion. We want many, you know, many resources and information. So if you will help us take the steps to ensure that these broadcasters are accounting for the ownership and then share that data with us before you guys make a decision thats what were after. Absolutely. Just as in the wire line context with respect to form 477 when it comes to form 323 we want to make sure we have accurate data as well. Thats the predicate for the fcc making an informed decision. We would be happy to work with you going forward. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, senator cantwell. Next up is senator hassen. Thank you, mr. Chair and thank you to all the witnesses for being here. I have appreciated this ugs ask. Im also new to the committee and new to some of these issues so i appreciate it very much. Mr. Pai, thank you for meeting with me prior to todays hearing and i really look forward to working with you. Im pleased that on the National Level we have submitted to ensuring our First Responders reap the benefits of new technologies by providing them with Public Safety network known as first net. And if done correctly, this will ensure seamless communication for Public Safety all over the country enabled with the latest data, video, radio and wireless capabilities possible. As you know and as weve discussed, New Hampshire is a state with unique connectivity challenges given our rural areas and mountainous terrain. I will take my mountains over West Virginias, no offense to my West Virginiaen colleagues, but companies in the Granite State have been exploring alternatives to the National Plan so that they can keep all options on the table and make the best decisions for our state when the time comes and its something you and i just discussed. Procedurally once the state decides to opt out of the National Network their proposal will have to be reviewed and approved by the fcc. As i understand it you have an open proceeding on this at the commission right now. Folks in my state have raised concerns that they will only have one opportunity to get their proposal right. If the fcc declines it, their reading of the statute is they have no opportunity to revise and resubmit which seems not a particularly way of moving forward from my perspective. As a former governor i feel a state deserves to learn where they fell short and be given a Second Opportunity to comply within reason. So what are your thoughts on this and what specifically will you do as head of the fcc to ensure that states are given a fair shake when it comes to making decisions about opting out . Thank you for the question, senator, and for the generous who is at this pallet you extended to me during our visit. With respect to first net, the fccs role, as you know, is a somewhat narrow one which is to facilitate interoperability between the National Network and state network for any states that choose to opt out or seek to opt out. The fcc as you know as you mentioned proposed rules to try to flesh out what our rules should be. The legislation as i read it does state once the fcc makes a determination that it will not approve an application that that decision is final, but i believe personally that president out states should have a full and fair opportunity, like any applicants to the fcc to make sure that they have a fair chance to present their case, that their network will inter operate with the National Network. My hope that they will have the opportunity to amend or modify in consultation with us their application should their apparent plans seem to conflict with the inter operating mandate that weve got. Okay. Thank you. Again, a question to chairman pai and, mr. Chair, if theres no objection id like to enter a recent opinion piece by former fcc commissioner michael cops into the record, its titled its urgent that pai voices her support for a free press and was published in the hill on monday. Thank you. Chairman pai, in this piece former commissioner cobbs quote you as saying, in my view anyone who has the privilege of serving at the fcc, any preacher with a pulpit, if you will, has the duty to speak out whenever americans First Amendment rights are at stake, end quote, and you agree thats a quote of yours . Thats correct. And i note that your official biography says that you are an outspoken defender of First Amendment freedoms. So theres obviously been over the course of recent months clear tension between members of our Nations Press and the Current Administration and senator udall asked you a question a little while ago just asking you whether you agreed or not with the statement that the media is the enemy of the American People. And it seemed to me that you kind of declined to answer that and id just like to give you another chance because it seems to me if you are an outspoken defender of the free press that should be a pretty easy question to you. To the contrary as i said to your predecessor i agree that every american has a full and fair opportunity to exercise and enjoy the rights protections by the First Amendment to the constitution and ive consistently spoken out about that in the context of the 2013 critical information needs study that the fcc was presenting. So yes or no do you agree with the statement that the president made that the media is the enemy of the American People . Senator, there is a larger plit cat debate that i dont want to wade into. All i can tell you is that i personally believe every american enjoys the First Amendment that they are given under the constitution. Thank you. I wish your answer had been a little different. Im out of time. Dr. Gardner. I appreciate your service. Particularly the work that you do with this committee and very long hearing that you are patiently answering questions for. Chairman pai, great to see you in your new position, congratulations again on your election as chairman, your appointment as chairman, elevation i guess it is, and your renomination as commissioner as well. As you, commissioner orielly and commissioner clyburn have heard me discuss before, we have had two orphan counties in colorado, two in southwestern colorado, that were receiving satellite broadcasts of new Mexico Television instead of colorado television. Id like to thank all of you at the commission as well as the media bureau for your decision to plant market modification petition. Thank you. Thats a Huge Development for colorado that puts employed constituents in the southwest one step closing to accessing in state television broadcasts. The other county in the Southwest Corner intends to file a similar petition for market modification. I would like your commitment that the commission will work to consider that request as well when filed. Senator, with the caveat that obviously any consumers who are forced to watch Denver Broncos football are burdened, nevertheless we have give i will remind you where kansass water comes from. If i can revise my marks that would be appreciated. Thank you. Chairman pai, i have seen the initial comments today by the way, in that last question i think every commissioner was agreeing affirmatively so thank you. Ive seen initial comments are due today for the Public Notice regarding streamlining deployment for small cell Wireless Infrastructure, deployment of such infrastructure are critical to ongoing wireless buildouts and to the future growth of 5 g Wireless Service. Can you submit the commission will pursue a thorough review and timing analysis of siting issues. We will do that. There are many regions of my state that do not have access to Broadband Service and remote areas without any access to broadband at all. I appreciate the time you have sent in colorado traveling up and down the front range and other areas of colorado. One of the most important goals of our Telecommunications Policy should be to close the urban rural broad ban divide, there are many technologies that could help in this effort but id like to know if you believe satellite could also help close that divide. I do. I think a lot of Satellite Companies have been innovative in boosting the speeds and reducing the latency which allows them to be much more competitive with their terest real brethren. We wanted to make sure we didnt put a thumb on the scale of one Technology Like fiber to the exclusion of others. As i said in response earlier to a question we want all these technologies to be brought to bear and let the consumer decide for himself or herself which one best suits their needs. Do you believe satellites can play a role in closing the urban rural divide. Absolutely. I want to make sure satellite has a fair chance to compete for all the programs we have at the commission. I dissented on a recent item i thought was tilted towards fiber instead of satellite. We want to give everyone every different technology. I think it should be in our decisions. Chairman pai, i want to echo something that senator wicker it said earlier today. I appreciate the work that you and the commission did on the Mobility Fund phase two to ensure rural areas are not left behind when it comes to mobile Wireless Service. I also support the decision to include a challenge process for form 477 data and we will be watching the comments on that proceeding as well. Thank you for the work that you did during your conversation. Senator heller was here talking about carrying two cell phones, i think the state veterinarian in nevada had to contrary two cell phones. I look at the maps and see the maps where i live in eastern colorado and im only supposed to be able to i would only need to carry one phone, but a lot of those eastern areas we need two phones as well. Eastern colorado areas. Thanks very much. Thank you, senator. Thank you, senator gardner. Next up, senator cruz. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Commissioners, thank you for being here. And this is an important and exciting time at the commission and i congratulate the chairman on your new appointment and look forward to working closely with you as you continue to implement innovative policies at the commission to expand competition, to create an environment where jobs and Economic Growth can flourish and to empower consumers. Thank you, senator. My top priority in the senate is Economic Growth. Jobs and Economic Growth are consistently the number one concern i hear from texans. In my view the biggest regulatory threat to Economic Growth on the internet is posed by the fccs open Internet Order and as commissioners are well aware i have been outspoken as an opponent of that order. I believe that regulating the internet is a title 2 public utility is contrary to the text of the law and was an illegal power grab and i also believe it is dangerous. That the internet has flourished because it has been an environment free of meddle some and burdensome regulation, enabling entrepreneurs to experiment, to innovate without seeking prior approval of government regulators. Indeed, i have called the socalled Net Neutrality rule obamacare for the internet. And i will note that the results have not been encouraging. In a 2015 oped entitled this is how we will ensure Net Neutrality former chairman wheeler wrote, when referring to title 2, that, quote, all of this is be accomplished by encouraging investment in broadband net works, to preserve incentives for Broadband Networks to invest in their operators to invest in their networks my proposal will modernize title 2, tailoring it for the 21st century in order to provide returns necessary to construct competitive networks. Now, im always concerned when a Government Official is trying to determine how to regulate the profits and inn ven tiffs of private companies, but a recent 2016 domestic broadband Capital Expenditures survey directed by house singer shows that of the 12 firms in the survey 8 experienced a decline in domestic broadband cap x relative to 2014, the last year in which the isps were not subject to the common carrier regulations, across all 12 firms domestic broadband cap x declined by 3. 6 billion, a 5. 6 decline relative to 2014 levels. A Regulatory Regime reducing the investment in broadband is not a Regulatory Regime looking out for the interests of consumers. Chairman pai, what is your view on the open Internet Order and how the commission should deal with that order . Thank you for the question, senator. I favor a free and open internet. I think that the internet as it is developed has been one of the greatest free Market Innovations in history and it has developed thanks in part to light touch regulation that started in the Clinton Administration on a bipartisan basis and continued thereafter for about two decades and it has produced tremendous benefits for the American People both as consumers and as entrepreneurs. My concern is with a particular Legal Framework that the fcc adopted to regulate the internet and to the extent that as you pointed out it is harming investment by broadband providers, not just the big ones which you mentioned but also the small ones. We have a number of declarations under penalty of perjury that have been submitted by wireless isps, for example, that they are he a holding back on investment precisely because of these rules. Thats my concern. We all want to preserve the core value of the free and open internet and we want to maximize the incentive to keep building these networks of the future. That is something is that were going to strive to do in the time to come. Chairman pai, i would encourage you and the commission to revisit that order and to rescind you in its entirety. I believe that you would have the support of a majority of this committee and substantial support in congress and i believe if the internet is going to be regulated and regulated as a public utility that is a decision that should be made by the United States Congress Rather than taking legislation designed for a very, very different context and applying it to the internet. Let me shift to a second topic because my time is expiring. Commissioner orielly, you stated in a 2015 blog post that, quote, by some accounts the federal government currently occupies either exclusively or on a primary bases between 60 and 70 of all spectrum in the commercially most valuable range between 225 mega hertz and 3. 7 jig ga hertz which comes to approximately 2,417 mega hertz. What steps can this committee take to incentivize federal users, especially the department of defense, to make more spectrum available for commercial use should congress consider allowing federal agencies to keep more of the proceeds from fcc incentive auctions should congress consider spectrum fees, which is another solution thats been suggested . How can we get more of that spectrum in commercial hands to provide thousands more high paying jobs . Yes, so incentives have been proposed by a number of my colleagues in the past. I have argued that the carrots are wonderful but you would require a significant amount of portion from the spectrum proceeds to convince them to give back spectrum. Ive advocated agency spectrum fees as an opportunity to put opportunity cost on holding particular licenses for particular bands. By doing so you make them look at what do they really need to complete their mission as an agency. I dont want to discourage all the good work that the agencies do, but i do want them to efficiently only hold the spectrum that they need to. I think the mechanism to go about it is to put a cost on the spectrum. It would be hard to price, but there are ways to go about doing so and that would be a mechanism that i would favor. Thank you very much. Thai, senator cruz. Senator sullivan, johnson sullivan. Senator sullivan. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, congratulations, commissioner pai, it was good to see all of you. You know, i just wanted to comment very quickly on a number of my colleagues here both sides of the aisle are talking about the independence of the agency, the imds of you in your chairman position. I couldnt agree more and i think thats important so im glad the topic has come up. I also think you shouldnt use as the example of independence the last chairman who a number of us viewed, you know, more of a lieutenant of the white house than an independent agency. So when both when my colleagues on the other side of the aisle are talking about your independence from the Trump Administration, we want you independent but dont use the last chairman as a model because i dont think a lot of us dont think he was very independent at all. I want to first of all thank all of you, i know you took a lot of time working hard on the alaska plan, i know you mentioned chairman pai in your opening remarks. It was very apparent that you all dug into that and worked hard with your staffs. Is there any Lessons Learned you can mention, you know, to me or my constituents on challenges or opportunities in alaska that, you know, you learned from kind of working on that issue . I know it wasnt a unanimous order but still you guys were all very well intentioned, you saw some of the extreme challenges we had up there, id welcome any comments on that for just kind of future reference because there was so much good work done on it. First i want to thank my colleagues for working collaboratively even if we didnt agree on every jot and tiddle i think we got a product across the finish line that hopefully will benefit alaskaness. Alaskas vastness and complexity is so different from anything you see in the lower 48. Ive been in a fiber trench seeing the per ma frost in ft. Yukon and sinking in quick sand and ive seen the mountains of cordova and how you try to deploy a next Generation Network in a place that is so topographic clee challenging is mind numbing the complexity of it. We need to make ur rules as simple as possible but also reflect the difficulties of deploying in alaska. Thats not going to be an easy square to circle but we have to do our best to do it because alaskaness deserve Digital Opportunity. Any other commissioners on just Lessons Learned from that . My visit to cordova which is beautiful and some of the other remote villages, it just underscored the fact that telemedicine and other types of opportunities the infrastructure needed to support that is so critical. You should not have to get up on that plane and sitting in the cockpit next to the pilot which, again, i need therapy still from that and to get help. There are opportunities that are unique to alaska that we need to enable. So that visit a few years ago really drove home the need for targeted tailored approach to delivery of services. Right. Thank you. Commissioner orielly. I would agree with my two colleagues, they hit the nail on the head. Alaska is so different, so unique that i was willing to work on projects that were just tailored to alaska when other states have said, oh, we are unique, its not even a comparison to what happens in alaska and what theyre forced to face with in such a short building cycle. I would agree also with commissioner clyburn in terms of telehealth. What theyre able to do with very small dollars in remote parts of the state are very impressive. Its aed moel i called for when i returned from my visit that we should look elsewhere, other places using telehealth and telemedicine are really eating up some significant dollars, whereas alaska has been very efficient and very addressed the issue very thoughtfully. Let me ask a related to that. There was discussion earlier about interagency cooperation and im just interested whether its e rate or rural Healthcare Programs or as you mentioned department of transportation road building with cable, do you need additional authorities from the congress as an independent agency to make sure that youre working closely, say, with the department of education . I talked to secretary devos about this on, you know, teleeducation or telehealth with the hhs secretary or how much are you doing that and do you need additional authorities from the congress to be able to do that in a much more robust manner because i think as you saw in the hearing today everybody agrees that thats a good idea, you agree that its a good idea, but what do we need to help you do that better with more Legal Authority . Thats a good question, senator. Could be candid im still getting my feet wet in my new role and part of that involving liaising with my counterparts at other agencies. I havent seen any legal impediment to being able to reach out to my counterparts. If and when we do encounter some barrier like that i will let you know. The last thing we want is for agencies not to be steering in the same direction. When you get your feet settled if you can get back to us on that, i think you would see broad bipartisan support for enhancing your ability to do that. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator, i just wanted to let you know that we are attempting to heal ourselves, too. A couple years ago we established a connect to Health Task Force that are attempting to work with other agencies like hhs and other departments to ensure that there are no barriers when it comes to provision thing services that are so vital to our community. I want to let you know where we can we are doing so. Thank you. Thank you, senator sullivan. Senator johnson. Mr. Chairman, again, i want to thank all the witnesses, congratulations, commissioner pai. We all grey that we want greater innovation, we want expansion and greater access to high speed broadband. One of the things that inhibits that is all the rhetoric, the slogans, the buzzwords. I want to try to cut through a little bit. I know Net Neutrality sounds great and in trying to convey why that harms investment and innovation ive come up with an analogy, i want to run this by you. Lets say a group of neighbors want to build a bridge over a creek so they can cross over and talk to each other a lot but then they find out so its really for a neighborhood, maybe a dozen people. Then they find out that the government, the local government, is going to require that that bridge is open to the entire community of a Million People. No prioritization whatsoever, they dont get to cross first to go see their neighbor, a Million People can come on to their property, ruin their lawns and walk over that bridge. Isnt that kind of a similar analogy, is that a pretty good analogy in terms of what Net Neutrality is all about, not allowing, for example, a company that is going to invest billions of dollars in the pipeline not allow them to sell a prioritized lane, for example, i dont know, people who want to doctors who want to prioritize distant diagnostics, they will have to share that same pipeline, for example, no prioritization with people streaming pornography. Tell me where that analogy is not accurate. I think you put your finger on one of the core concerns. All of us favor and free and open internet. We also want to incentivize the construction of these networks which requires massive Capital Expenditures, especially as were going into the future can 5 g networks and the like. How to balance those concerns is something i think people of good will can disagree on, but our goal is to make sure to use your analogy that those bridges continue to be built, that they continue to be maintained and upgraded as traffic modernizes over time. In my example i dont think too many neighbors would chip in the money to build that bridge when they realize we are not going to be able to use it tr or not get priority on this. A lot of buzzwords, opt in, opt out. Lets get down lets cut to the chase. What is fair about having different providers with different rules in terms of opting in versus opting out of the Data Collection and use . What im really talking about is the fact that its that Data Collection, the data use thats allowed the internet to flourish and basically be free to consumers. Thanks again for the question, senator. I think the principles that we need to embrace are twofold, number one, as a general matter but especially in this context we need to make sure there is a level Playing Field in terms of anyone who is competing in the online space. Number two, the consumers have a uniform expectation of privacy. When they go on line they shouldnt have to be lawyers or engineers or technologists to figure out the regulatory classification of the entity thats holding their Sensitive Information. So our goal is obviously to vindicate that Consumer Preferences preference by applying an even regulatory set of requirements to everybody who is competing in this space. Again, the point i want to make is if we put everybody on a laying Playing Field and had opt in, i think most people wouldnt allow their information to be shared. What would that be in terms of cost of internet, for example . I think the ftc has done a lot of work in this area and theyve struck that calibration i think appropriate which is to say consumers expect their Sensitive Information to be opt in and their not so Sensitive Information to require opt out. So i think thats one of the things that has allowed the internet economy according to the ftc, the experts over there to thrive. Commissioner orielly i enjoyed our meeting yesterday. I was also interested in the column you wrote and this is eye popping that the cost of active Information Collection in the fcc is its approaching a billion dollars a year, 798. Just talk a little bit about that in my remaining 45 seconds. Sure. We just did a snapshot to alert people what is actually happening. We have an extensive collection mechanisms at the commission, they arent reviewed often enough and now theres 73 million hours a year and 800 million annually for that was just the collection. Weve talked to small rate of return carriers, we have 100 filings a year. Thats not just one person in an Office Filing something to the commission, that requires a consistent portion of their resources to try to answer Different Things to the commission. That keeps them from serving their customers, providing new services. So i think thats extensive and we should look at these more often and extensively. I suggest there is a proposal to create new task forces that the administration has put forward, i think that would be something that would be very valuable for the agency to look at and deploy for this particular purpose. Again, excellent column, it is not in the record i would ask unanimous consent to enter it into the record of the hearing. Without objection. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator, senator johnson. Senator schatz i think has some questions he wants to submit for the record. Just request to submit in the record on behalf of senator nelson a letter to the committee from the Leadership Conference on civil rights civil and human rights raising concerns regarding the fccs recent actions on lifeline, media ownership and a few other issues. Okay. I appreciate that. We will include it in the record without objection. Thank you, senator schatz. All right. We will keep the i want to submit, too, i have for the record a letter signed by 18 organizations including representatives from the tech and Telecom Industries supporting the use of the Congressional Review Act to repeal the fccs broadband privacy rule. We will submit that and i would say well keep the hearing record open for two weeks and if there are questions that senators want to submit, feel free to do that and we will encourage upon receipt witnesses submitting their written answers to the committee as soon as possible. And particularly qfrs for this hearing that any questions of chairman any questions of chairman pai that might be relevant to his nomination, as well. With that, adjourned. Thank you. Their involvement would be informal or do they have a formal role . I dont know if they have legally, is there authority for that . Nothing explicit about it in the statute. Yeah, im guessing, again, if they wanted to, probably their prerogative for the way in, but i dont know that it has any legal steam, so to speak. I suspect largely our Justice Department and ftc anything to do with it . Doj most likely. Recommendations . Well, i mean, i think that my understanding is if the democrats are going to continue to submit as their nominee, but i have not theres been no official, i guess, movement in terms of the administration submitting nominations to us, so i dont know, we hear names batted around, as you probably do, on who the republican might be, but at this point its still, i think, largely conjecture. I mean, i hope we get them soon, because were in the process of, i think, guiding some people, but the sooner we can get the process rolling, the more quickly were able to get a full fcc commission, which i think is important, and like i said, i hope it happens soon. Well, i mean, no. Its mostly just kind of its a lot of speculation and the ecochamber out there and some of your all reporting about who some of those folks are, but, we hear some we dont have anything official yet. [ inaudible question ] i deally it would be nice, yeah. Ideally, if we could get them kind of all moved at the same time, to me, that would be the best way to kind of fill out and do the full complement of initiatives. Sir, should the fcc move quickly on Net Neutrality . We didnt hear them say that today. What should we do about Net Neutrality . I would expect them to move quickly. I guess it depends how you define that, but im guessing they will in a deliberative, thoughtful, and probably somewhat systemic way start to roll that back, move back from that position, but again, youre right, you didnt hear a definitive statement about that today. I suspect thats chairman pai disagrees strongly, as many of us did, with what the fcc did the last couple of years, and i think now that they are in a position to do something about that, i wouldnt suspect that they will. Sooner better than later . Legislation could be the solution . You know, i think, again, the timing of it remains to be seen, and i think they are going about things in a very thoughtful way, but to the question of how that impacts what we do, i dont think it hurts for the fcc to move, because i think it puts additional pressure on congress and helps make the argument weve made all along, and that is when youre subject to the vagaries of political whims of this city, youre going to get this kind of changing policy, and thats not a good thing. The need, what we want to see is certainty, and the best way to achieve that is action by congress, and i do think action by the fcc could spur action up here and get democrats more interested. Were open for business, they know that. We were close to something a couple years ago before well, after the order came out and before the court case was heard, we were in pretty serious negotiations with the democrats, and id like to commence those again. You didnt initially indicate you would love to start before the fcc you would love to just get to the table and start negotiating. That position seemed to shift a bit today. What changed your thinking on that . Title two . On the order of how this should go about. Well, yeah, i would love it if we theoretically, ideally, i would love to see congress decide that legislation is the best solution and the best course of action to get the certainty, but i dont see that today at the moment. But like i said, were we continue to were available, and as soon as the democrats are interested, any democrats are interested in talking to us about codifying, you know, some rules that would provide clarity for the future, were very interested in getting that under way. Even if the fcc doesnt refer . Its going to get hard to get democrats on this committee and democrats genuinely interested unless the fcc probably starts moving. Senator, would it be fair for the at t time warner deal be approved without a Net Neutrality condition . Comcast was saddled with Net Neutrality. How do you feel about that . Thats a good question, and i guess thats a question for the doj. Yeah, previous deals have had some of those restrictions attached. This case i just dont know, you know, obviously, theres a precedent for doing that, but i think every one of these, i think, probably gets considered differently and based on its own merits. Would you be open to condition a Net Neutrality condition on that deal, even if the rules are repealed . If Net Neutrality goes away . Title two goes away . Just out of fairness that comcast was saddled with it, should at t . Well, i guess that i would say that again, this is these are legal issues, not something that we probably but i think what you want to have at the end of the day are settled rules that everybody plays by, and in a level Playing Field. Thank you all. Thats kind of what we hope to achieve in that negotiation. Im sure they are probably going to look at whats been done previously. Tonight on the communicators, michael powell, president and ceo of ncta, the