Transcripts For CSPAN3 Public Affairs Events 20220927

Of ways that it can have an impact, both on the hiring and employee side, as well as on the owner side. On the hiring side, setting standards for hiring contracts with vendors can set a high bar for companies that are receiving the Public Airways to live up to those sorts of standards on the structure that can impact the ownership side. Perverting competition. He surely set off structures that allow for small women and minor minor owned businesses to create compete in the auctions. You may not have all the ideas but we are interested in finding out what other ideas can be brought forward and celebrate the chamber recently reinstating the Advisory Committee on diversity and digital empowerment. Those are the sorts of things we love to see at the fcc where stakeholders can come together and come up with other tactics to promote diversity. Thank you chairman, my time is up. , we hear from senator blackburn. Thank you mr. Chairman. I want to thank our witnesses for being here to talk about this issue today. Mrs. Baker, i want to start with the first. Any issue you have heard me talk about is having an inventory of all the spectrum that is held by federal agencies. And, i was i would like for you to speak to the importance of why we ought to do this and we look at reupping the Spectrum Authority. Why it would be useful to have this if we look at the five team build out . Thank you for the question. It is important. I will go back saying the next spectrum we allocate needs to be banned. It is government spectrum. Two thirds of the midband is government spectrum. Any inventory would be helpful so we can know who is using the spectrum efficiently and who is not. That will help us as we use the relocation thumb that this committee so brilliantly passed it is so brilliant in relocating agencies. At think us to move forward, it is important to know what is there and what the value is and how it is being utilized so we know what is needed to reallocate it. Absolutely. I want to come to you now because she meant and the different federal agencies that kind of compete. Recently, we have seen what i would call a lot of sharp elbows between the dod and the fcc and the ntia and, lets see, the and other agencies. Why is it important for your recommendations to minimize this and how would an inventory help us to minimize to see differences between agencies in the turf battles that seem to be coming about over this spectrum. Thank you senator blackburn for that question. I would first mention that there is an inventory of federal spectrum uses. Ntia holds the government master file. We have ongoing work that we have mandated through the last ndaa for us to look exactly at that house. Various systems like that are holding that information and making changes and updates to those systems. I would just mention that there are a couple things that the file may not have. Things like where this might be used or the time at which the trim is used the spectrum is used. That would be information that is useful for reallocating spectrum and certain circumstances in finding out places where spectrum can be shared. I would go back to the recommendations we have in our report with respect to how we can avoid some of these between agencies in the future. It really goes to ordination among the agencies and and tia engaging with the agency and ntia engaging with the other agencies. I think the mou goes a long way as a great first step in terms of making the early coordination opportunities happen. One of the things you mentioned, strength spectrum, because we do have some agencies leaving spectrum unused for long periods of time. That is spectrum that could be shared. Dr. Basal, i am interested in your understanding of the ceos warning that she mentioned in your testimony. It seems like with your prior career experience that she would have helpful insight into how scoring may factor into a potential reauthorization. And what the spectrum Authorization Authority would look like. The subcommittee of energy and Congress Helped work on the raybons act. It was a big point of conversation, how this was going to end up being scored. In your view, what are the pros and cons of the 18 month reauthorization that is as opposed to going ahead into being a one year or four year we authorization . Thank you for the question. If the reauthorization for 18 months allows for the work to be done to have more direct scoring in a longer bill, that could be useful. We all appreciate that at the end of the day, we want Spectrum Authority to be there for a long time. Even if you extend authority for four years or 10 years, or is still any opportunity for congress to come have direct reallocation. Those reallocations will score positively. It will not score as highest they would, if they also include the authorization aspect. It would still have a positive score. It is a tradeoff and judgment as to whether or not a longerterm is necessary. Thank you mr. Chairman. Thank you senator blackburn. Next, we will hear from senator klobuchar. Thank you so much mr. Chairman and thank you for doing this really important hearing. I will start with you mr. Ruiz. I cochair the 911 caucus with senator byrd. An estimated 244 million million calls are made 201 centers annually. This Critical Public Service that we all rely on, relies on outdated technology. Some places take text messages. You can imagine someone in an emergency, why would they think to use text message . I am lead legislations to modernize americas 911 systems to hander text, pictures and video and other information sent by smartphone. Option revenue should be invested into Public Interest of subjectives. Dear green 911 infrastructure is in dire need of modernization . Yes and i would include the on the list of public objectives. I will go on and thank you for your support for the American Innovation choice online act. I appreciate the support of you and many others. This mrs. Baker, in your testimony, headed to the 5g benefit to the u. S. , putting improvements of Public Safety. How can 5g and other technology be leveraged to advance public communication yet thank you for your question and your leadership on 911. We are grateful that you have raised these issues for the next generation of 911 preand as far as the funds go, it is up to congress to spend them but that is certainly a word because it is ripped in places. The important thing in my job is to continue to bring people to the option auction so you can spend as you wish to improve Public Safety. In aws3, we created a bill for congress to spend these funds which are a great opportunity to enact your priorities. Thank you. Back to mr. Lewis, chairman wicker and i joined in introducing the precision act precision connectivity act. Then i dropped coverage. Chairman lohan has that incredible work on broadband. A lot of us care a lot about it. Especially when it comes to prison history. We also water levels so we do not you overuse water and we are seeing droughts. How can we make sure our farmers have access to modern internet capabilities and take full advantage of these new technologies and what role does spectrum play here . Spectrum policy can play an Important Role in promoting a variety of uses. Like precision in row areas, we have already seen precision, agriculture, and can make use of the cprs spectrum band. Under the third tier of a general access authority. This means they are hopefully working in concert with each other, under the standards of working in concert with the incumbent prioritization. This still makes great use for Rural Farmers and precision agriculture. The are also seeing wifi used in some areas through tv white spaces in order to promote precision agriculture. Setting up auctions into the future but making sure that sharing unlicensed and i sent officers are possible and licensed officers are possible. Last question. As we develop new technologies to deploy and maintain 5g, it is important to find Innovative Solutions that make the most of available spectrum. Especially the constraint on spectrum growth. In your testimony, you say this is important to meeting future spectrum needs. How can sharing techniques deliver more Consistent Service to consumers . The new technology, such as more creative boost and incentive auctions, but the database to manage sharing systems are newly innovated to create more value from spectrum and a way to find the uses of spectrum. Those will be a key feature Going Forward in making thrilled that we liked her as possible. Use spectrum as efficiently as possible. Thank you senator and thank you for the work you do every day. Next we will hear from senator moran. Thank you very much for your presence and your words and the wisdom you are imparting. I first want to to my colleagues on this and the full committee that i am supportive of an 18 month Auction Authority extension to the fcc. As probably the best path forward but i also would indicate, you said this and i think it is important, that i Want Congress to have a role in the determining of spectrum auctions and where the proceeds go. As you indicated, we have been left out. We also noticed on the bipartisan infrastructure bill that we were unable to get any credit for offsets as a result of the fact that congress had no where in that regard to how the proceeds were spent. I question my questions have generally been asked by my colleagues but i would turn to ask the department of reallocated spectrum does not always go smoothly . You seen that recently with the 5g deployment delay. One of the prime issues that was found in setting the ntia and fcc spectrum policies is there is an adequate coordination. He suggests a number of ways to improve coordination. Through those recommendations, any of them, account for the recently encountered cspan by deployment. If not, how would you recommend providing similar occurrences in the future in terms of Agency Coordination . It is hard to say exactly. With that issue in abc bands but the recommendations can go to some of these issues that came up. There was certainly opportunities early on for the faa to express concerns. Those are concerns that were not expressed so more and earlier coordination between the fcc and ntia. Heads up to the fcc to ntia that these proceedings would allow the faa and fcc to explore the issues and make sort of desperately issues to light. I think those recommendations will come up. It sounds like the usual communications that we hear regularly that fails to occur. I sponsored an amendment in you sica that would work to ensure the u. S. Is leading in interNational Standards. This is probably for you mr. Van hollen, including the National Intelligence commission. These had a lack of space for enjoyment to be reduced to their underpaid their underpaid. My amendment was negotiated in the final chips and science act agreements. You mentioned in your written terror written testimony that the lack of faith has hurt participation in federal bodies. Can you elaborate on how a lack of coordination hurts this and what congress can do to ensure u. S. Leadership . Thank you for that question. Our work looks specifically at negotiations around the 24 gigahertz band. What occurred there was that there was no technical basis for the u. S. Position that was brought to the international proceeding. That was what undermined the u. S. Position, at least for some. So, our recommendations were not only for the fcc and ntia, to improve their processes, but also other federal agencies involved to ensure they are working with fcc the end ntia the fcc and ntia to get into the kind of work that goes into those proceedings. Also made recommendations to update the general guidance document which governs the proceedings which is a state Department Document that gives various players what roles they should be playing. We thought both of both of those things should be given. Do you have a sense of whether the recommendations are being followed . We have not seen this. But the mou have. Would you remind me why it is important for us to plead to these International Agencies that may be that is a policy issue. Perhaps something that is beyond to apply on. Anyone . Think the issue we are talking about was the 24 gigahertz and the world radio conference. U. S. Took a position and then later, looking forward, the way this can be helped is if an tia ntia is on board for decisions. If the experts make a decision, maybe we need to allow them to have more expertise. When they make a decision, it needs a final and that is what congress intended we have certainly mentioned that this will help but once a decision has been made, whether it is reality or not, the fcc for the commercial five site there whether it is federal spectrum and ntia need to have the final say. They need to be the final arbiter. We cannot have agencies going behind them. All the discussions need to have above need to happen before these have taken place. I am an appropriate for ntia and if there is ways we can try to get their attention, i would be interested in doing so. Thank you. Next will hear from senator markey. Your questions. Thank you mr. Chairman. We are in a period of enormously rapid change. Psychologically, artificial intelligence, 5g. Zoom and all of this moving very rapidly. But, thank goodness because also, any developments. In how to more efficiently use the spectrum which we have. And to improve upon our competitors. Will you take this question and explain how the recent technological changes are making more spectrum available for our use . It is not just more but more efficient use of spectrum. Have a market now that was very different. The spectra market looks very different than a couple decades ago or even a decade ago. We have updated and finer tuned our instruments. Many of the fights we have seen between agencies could be solved with early planning and early engagements. But also, making sure that we are looking at certain standard for the equipment that is used. This needs to be done early. I think this is why looking to a longerterm option authority can send the signal from congress that it is needed and we want to avoid those types of problems in the future. And unlicensed users are also important. Using disruptors. They are change agents and experiment that and experiments. We have to make sure we carve a space for them in this world. I would like to talk as well about spectrum options which do raise significant amount of money. Less than in the past but still a ton of revenue. They are made available. Just looked over at a real me. During the pandemic, we saw that there was 1217 million children that did not have internet at home. We were able, and i led the effort, to put in 7 million for an emergency cost activity fund. So that kids who work from home can have it. That funding is starting to run out. So, could you look at this issue for us mr. Lewis, and talk about whether or not these revenues should be dedicated to ensuring that we have a permanent emergency Connectivity Fund. So that no child, especially black, brown, or immigrant children in the country are left behind. Thank you for tiffany the emergency connectivity on. I served on my local school board for two terms and we lived that experience, with students who were not connected in the home and the homework help is real with the disadvantages they have put their peers. I think there is a number of sources of funding that can be used to continue. We talked about the airways that are absolutely ideal where auction revenue can be used in setaside for directly in the front that can include some Educational Needs from the ecf. Of course, congress can always, because options do not come in a regular schedule, congress can always appropriate more money. But certainly, it is a critical of making sure everyone is connected for a high speed and quality connectivity. Are going to have kids 20 years from now looking back at their childhoods and saying they left me behind, i was not connected. And it will harm them. I just think, with the revenues in the race, we have to ensure we focus on answering everyone gets access. That is what the virtual Connectivity Fund is and i think that should get a part of any revenues. Net utility, Everyone Wants competition and wants to make sure this darwinian paranoia, inducing competition environment , and that is what the trailer to is all about as well. I introduced legislation that couple days ago which widened. We have a couple dozen of our colleagues who signed on to talk about how important that hlt is to ensuring we have a marketplace important Net Neutrality is to ensuring that we have a marketplace. Net neutrality is important to prevent harmful discrimination by providers and services being gatekeepers of the internet. For years now, we have had providers committing to adhere to those principles. But we still have a number of examples over the years we have not had clear Net Neutrality rules Expert Agency like the fcc. They dont have the authority to discover now. Restoring those rules and that authority i think is essential. I agree with you. Net neutrality means nondiscrimination. We cant allow determination on the net. I will continue with senator like many west virginians, i am concerned this tax increase will increase closing the Digital Divide as these companies will have fewer dollars to 2. 5 g and other spectral capabilities. Is it your understanding that enacting the 50 minimum tax on the tax and spend bill will raise taxes, thereby raising prices on already financially strapped consumers . It is. I am hoping for a technical correction so we can consider spectrum option holdings the same as other infrastructure holdings. It will raise taxes. It is retroactive on the over 200 million carriers have spent on spectrum as well as proactively i think they will have to come up with a tax to pay for what they actually already hold. We can harm the Digital Divide and slow things down. Going forward, it will have to be built into spectrum policy. Thank you. The infrastructure bill set forth, more americans are connecting. Happily is sure inlet of the conversations you have has today that there is sufficient spectrum to utilize these broadband networks. Particularly in my estate. It is fibrillating. We are fiber leaning. We are working to make them realize the power of 5g Home Broadband so they can serve other areas in a more efficient way. Getting broadbent to all americans is a big challenge. It will require in all of the above process. I just want to be included in peoples decisions. Is there a question of whether there is enough spectrum to handle this . Will it be robust enough for the hard areas to reach . Thank you for the question. In rural areas, the spectrum is not as constrained. Affordability types of issues . Not enough customers . In this affordability. Making sure that the structure gets out of the rural areas. We know that Wireless Network is a wired network with a little bit of wireless at the end of it. They need the certainty that customers will be able to afford what is there. It is not just getting it there, it is keeping their and wellmaintained. I would agree in terms of the economics of it but i would also mention artwork has shown there is great demand respect from all over the board. It is sound management. I would agree with what has been said. There is a matter they are maintaining those networks. This is very important and it will be great for rural areas. This is the end of the spectrum pipeline. I would add that it is also important to use spectrum efficiently and in a timely manner. Yes, they can be prioritized. That spectrum can be shared or partitioned and given to others. The broadband, whether it is wired or wireless needs to be rolled out in a quick manner. Thank you all very much. You are often very generous and that recognition. Thank you for your generous seating of time and place. Ms. Baker, lets start with you. Demand for access to spectrum is increasing day by day as we discussed the shared asset among federal and nonfederal users. How would modernizing the use of funds from the Spectrum Relocation Fund support the researcher mr. Mission . Thank you for the question. It is a really good one. The Spectrum Relocation Fund is done a lot and really changes the way we manage spectrum. There is a school of thought that says they cant use the funds for future Spectrum Management to see when they might want to relocate. They know they will get the money back. That is when they can use the Spectrum Relocation Fund. Agencies can actually look for future relocation. Interestingly, i also understand that while any agency can use Spectrum Relocation Fund , management of the spectrum cannot. They are a great neutral arbiter. In your testimony, you discuss the value of unlicensed spectrum. We need to consider those cases when creating spectrum policy. What are some of the examples of how it is used to benefit society and how should the value of unlicensed spectrum be factored into the reallocation decisions . Thank you for the question. The wireless users create value but not in a way that creates demand to pay for spectrum at auction but the social value, it is worth saying that even for the commercial uses, it is really 10 or 20 times the value of that spectrum. When you think about the value of the spectrum of consumers, significant amounts from the unlicensed. Measuring those, it is the value of the connectivity in your home. This is what policymakers should be waiting when they consider whether or not more spectrum needs to go for these users. They need to go to both. When you earlier mentioned that you dont think the gao would opine on that, i think that is the first time i have ever heard them planning on anything. The gao reviews clearly identified a lack of collaboration process as you described and we discussed already. The disagreement over the technical assumptions, the interpretations of the data behind those assumptions. This is natural. It is at the root of these disputes. Does the gao have recommendations to help resolve the interagency disputes such as using independent thirdparty analysis . We dont have recommendations specific to using a thirdparty but when we make recommendations to the agencies around trying to come together to try and have a common understanding, we need to understand the best way to do that. In terms of an arbiter, i think we would be supportive of that. They do talk about of a new focus on sharing technical information. I think that also comes along way to figuring out what you are talking about. Thank you for the interagency collaboration. I think that is the point we will all take away from this. I yield back to the chair. Today, they released a new memorandum of understanding on interagency spectrum ordination. Ms. Baker, your enhancing the interAgency Coordination spectrum. I know we come at this from slightly different directions. The importance of the collaboration is to ensure that we avoid conflicts that cant be resolved or you have agencies who are so we are not jeopardizing International Security nor Public Safety in terms of the federal government use of that spectrum. Understanding the way in which we are locating uses might affect users is extremely important. Ensuring those views are expressed and considered which makes rules around power levels, i think that is also important. We are very encouraged by the new mou. I think it goes directly to the heart of the recommendations we made. I think it will have a great impact on the level of collaboration. We have two great leaders. It is a good step, a good first step. I think there needs to be other steps taken. I think raising the levels shows the power that office needs to have as being the final arbiter in federal communication and federal spectrum argument. We need to empower those leaders to do their jobs. Thank you. When Congress Gave the Auction Authority in 1983, it created what many of us see as one of the most valuable tools in the fcc toolkit. Establishing a straightforward method of licensing and making sure that the spectrum is held. They are allowed to do their jobs and it holds the rest of the stakeholders to the fire to make sure that we get a second pipeline. We need to have a set i spectrum pipeline because the rest of the world is moving forward. I support them to have a longer option authority but i think it really needs to be tied to specific brands. This would be her own go over our policymakers. The length of time creates the courage. Those will exist whether or not there is a longterm exemption. There will be a stronger budgetary incentive if you plan afterwards. Click the fcc is currently conducting an auction. What happened here . It is an important auction. It shows the answers we dont know because congress has never let Auction Authority last before. It creates a lot of uncertainties. Thank you, senator. Thank you for sharing this important hearing. Important policy areas. Senator young just worked on a major innovation act. We said we needed to modernize the u. S. Advances in chip fabrication. We are not going to keep killing capacity. We have to look at new substrates, new materials, new ways. We need more chips when we are going to have Driverless Cars and there are 30 different types of ships in the car. It is nearly impossible to think about all of the applications. I am intrigued by your testimony because you are saying we are looking at this from a budget perspective. What would you say are the buckets for areas of how to take a better look at spectrum need and then you can get to these questions that we are down in the weeds on. It is these uses. I am not even sure we have a picture of what the need is or the possible need out there for us and where we might hit demand limitations. We dont use spectrum for the fund. Commercially, we it because it creates value. Capacity can be increased in different ways. You can add spectrum to the network. That is what we have been talking about here but more efficient technologies, 5g creates the throughput on the spectrum much more efficiently and it uses the bands and or sensible way. This allows for higher bends for cities with the larger capacities. All of that capacity, that is the way we treat capacity for all those different needs. There are the ones that we know about like the commercial wireless operators. The new internet of things will have a completely different demand profile on spectrum. This is not slowing down. No. This demand for communications is increasing. If you look at any of the forecasts and the usage of wireless data, it is explosive. It is explosive in a way that will not just be met with more spectrum loan. It is many times the amount of usage that will require more some of those people should get whatever points and consideration based on that or we as a government should promote that as we would approach adding more efficiency. We want to look at the budgetary incentives. The point is to get the spectrum reallocated into new users as efficiently as possible to the extent that auctions create the will to do that, that is a good thing but that is not the reason for a spectrum policy in the first place. What about applications . We just heard some debate here, 911 and other things. The next generation 911, the idea that we have iphones but also a network that is not universally used them is amazing. Having that money come from there value from spectrum gets spent in different ways. They get spent in other ways like when there is a buildout requirement. That is the value created. All of these issues like how to figure out interference and how to have more clear oval. We have to have a better picture here of how much demand is coming out of it because i think it is phenomenal and i think we will be pushed to figure out what those uses are. If we feel like we are seeing competition and competitiveness and challenges and people throwing this over the rail at you, i guarantee it will mean more in five or 10 years. What are policies that the nation needs to help think through this . I am sure that the chairman without you. Click the Bigger Picture is the wireless sector will continue to grow. We will have a robust wireless sector in this country in the future. We do have a choice of whether or not it will be one or based on high usage. More usage, more fulfillment of the wireless capacity or one that is a little bit more constrained. I am sure people are going to say they want lower cost. Next, we will hear from senator lee. Thank you for being here. Ms. Baker, i would like to start here if that is ok. You described the fcc coordinating process. Specifically, you have seen after ample review, measures have been taken to make sure that all parties have been heard and all considerations have been evaluated. Either claiming some pressing need for Public Safety or in many cases, National Security interests often go unarticulated. Thus undoing many years of cooperation. How did these lastminute objections from federal agencies who are presumably operated outside affect the deployment of Wireless Networks . In the most recent case with the faa, i think we have seen it delayed the spectrum from coming to fruition. I think it does delay. We really need to figure out how to empower mci to be the final arbiter of these decisions. I think that is right. We desperately need to fix this broken problem process. They have updated their memorandum of understanding. This is a Long Time Coming but i am glad that we made the progress. I remain concerned that these very large, powerful agencies are abusing the process. Perhaps even withholding relevant, necessary information from public view or from the fcc and the and tia or this very important task. Would you agree that all these agencies including the really big and powerful ones really need to cooperate and be transparent both with the fca fcc and mtia . There maybe a place where that works. There might be some to conclude that now that the mou has been updated, there is no need for congress to act here. What would be the risk of us not doing anything as a congress and resting on the fact that there is an updated mou . Clearly, your opinion is important. If you express your opinion, i think it will go a long way. The stakes are huge. You note it in your testimony. You noted that the United States is trailing. Our competitors in the clearing process. Our spectrum pipeline is nearly depleted. There is a current coordination process, what does that do to us in terms of our ability to complete compete globally . The rest of the world is moving forward. We need a pipeline. I was at the last dispute it was necessary to get those Government Agencies coordinated to agree on the bands. We really felt at that pipeline and we are getting closer to auction tax. We can still fix it. We can still move forward. I am hopeful we have made a lot of progress in identifying which bands we think are most viable for the pipeline. That is the lower 3 ghz. It is 4 ghz and then 7 ghz. It will not be easy but we have made a lot of progress. With the administrations help and the white houses help, i think we can get there. I want to make clear that congress does not let the fcc option authority lapse. That is something i hope will come before the senate. I hope and expect this committee will have some involvement in that. I know you do too. If Congress Fails to address a lot of the spectrum policy issues that i have highlighted, i am worried that would weaken the u. S. In the long run. Would you agree with me that in addition to needing this reauthorization, we also need some spectrum policies to be adopted moving forward in favor of growth . Are not going to be easy to do. We are going to need help from congress to make sure they get done. The rest of the world moves forward, the innovation goes elsewhere, our Global Leaders should act. Welcome to each of the witnesses. I appreciate you taking time to be here today to talk about these important issues. As you all know, in the communications act, congress charged the fcc with regulating radio operations in the United States. For years, the fcc managed radio operations. In a rather clunky and inefficient way, the comparative hearing process or as he became more commonly known through beauty contests. Almost 30 years ago, all of that changed when congress ran the authority to use auctions to award licenses for the rights to use the radio spectrum. Spectrum Auction Authority. This market based approach transformed how they are distributed and aggregated which has revolutionized telecommunications. At as the sec put it, spectrum Auction Authority has ushered the tillich medications history into a new era. They have become the watchword for both the public and private telecommunications sectors. The programs have been a success for the american people. The new auction design has been studied, licensed or copied worldwide. Experience is have shown that the auctions have increased this and benefited customers. In other words, a pretty big success. In recent years, it has felt like it is beginning to take steps backwards in this area. The number and value of fights has grown. Whether it is the 24 gig of fun gigabytes fight, the 6 ghz fight between the department of energy, utility providers and the wifi lobby work most recently, the fight between the faa, d. O. T. Airlines and mobile broadband providers. These food fights all are having the same impact. This helps revolutionized just not just american but Global Telecommunications over the last 30 years. My question to each of the witnesses is pretty simple. Is the Spectrum Management process in the United States today, broken . It is hopefully on the mend. We are seeing signs with the announcement of the new mou. I think we can ask policymakers to take other steps to ensure that the discipline needed to address the technical issues that need to be examined and determined on how spectrum works and whether there is interference is followed. We need leadership to make sure there is no longterm commitment for the final authority on the technical specs. To follow that science and figure out what the need is and how to make sure that all of those needs are met. We have the Technical Capability to do that through sharing licensed and unlicensed spectrum but we need to cooperate. It is a good question. I am always optimistic. I would not say it is broken but i would say he needs help. I cant believe it is 30 years ago already. I think a lot of these are technological questions and we need to empower more. These are known answers. We need to have these problems raised earlier. That is why i support more funding for rts. It is a Government Agency that is testing them. It seems like we could do it a little bit more neutrally. I think we need to empower the fcc and ntia. Maybe we look at the Spectrum Relocation Fund to see what future relocations we need to do. I would not say it is broken but it certainly failed in these sentences. Largely, these processes do work. When there are technical questions that are not resolved and it cant come to an agreement, that is where this process breaks down. We certainly try to make recommendations to ensure that up and i think this is a good first step toward that. Our Current System is pretty clunky and inefficient but we have to recognize it has gotten us to our Current System which is really incredible Wireless Broadband Network and ecosystem. Going forward, the cockiness will become an increased impediment. Quick thank you. Next we will hear from senator sullivan. I appreciate the witness testimony today. It is important but sometimes complex issues. I want to follow up on what senator cruz is talking about. The fcc has had a spectrum Auction Authority since 1993 without lapsing. What would be the consequences if the fcc authority does lapse for the first time in 30 or 40 years in october and on the currently ongoing 2. 5 ghz option and more broadly, what would a sense of confidence in the industry be if there was a lapse . Thank you for the question. The uncertainty that that brings is i think none of us know the answers to those questions and i dont think any of us want to find out. This is a really important auction and we have a lot of people building and bidding on that spectrum. It will be very meaningful across the country but what is next is also important. This is an ever evolving dynamic and industry. We will need to continue to build out 5g faster, further and to do that, we will need more spectrum. The fcc will have to have their authority. Let me ask for you and then for mr. Lewis and mr. Babylon, assuming we pass a shortterm extension, what you think this committee pass priorities should be for a longerterm bill . I think we need a shortterm extension so we dont go into the situation, prioritization, a few key issues, try to keep it somewhat short on the longerterm bill. We need them to go with the spectrum Auction Authority. Two thirds of mid band is owned by government. It is very helpful for congress to specify that it is bands. We think we just have to focus on the three. One and d three. 45 that are in the act. A longerterm authority would send a great signal from congress to the agencies across the government. You have a real commitment to doing the work, the trusted science were to determine what the spectrum pipeline should look like and how it will work across government and private commercial and unlicensed use. It is really about certainty. Bidders certainty is not the only certainty that is important. Certainty for innovators, certainty for the users of government and military. Certainty for multiple sectors when we have a longerterm authority committed by the congress. The spectrum pipeline does need to be filled. As a practical matter, it is only once the fcc and the Government Agencies through the hard work to examine what it would take to relocate a band of spectrum. Assuring the agencies have resources to plan accordingly. Quick thank you. A big issue that i think we need in terms of spectrum but also in terms of allocating federal funds from the infrastructure act is better. And just beyond that federal Agency Coordination. Over the past year, the gao has released a number of reports on the federal spectrum. All to improve their collaboration on spectrum planning. Can you talk on that . I am not sure if you saw the page that was signed monday by mr. Davidson and the chair. Can you comment on that as well if you have seen it . And any other coronation issues beyond just spectrum policy, i think there is a whole host of areas where federal agencies, particularly those two agencies need better coordination for efficiency in our spectrum. We will host a summit next week with the sec, and tia all up in alaska, other federal agencies on this issue of ordination and the deployment of federal funds. Absolutely so. We were really looking for the agencies to shore up their collaboration processes. I think it is a great first step. They read our report, they gave a lot of comments on. One of the reclamations we did make that is not really reflected is related to and tia and how it coordinate with other federal agencies. One of the things we thought was important was they document so they can understand the types of study they might need to conduct so they can understand whether their views have been adequately represented or how they are being represented or what sort of tradeoffs were made in producing a final submission to the fcc. We have seen agencies submit their own comments. That is not disallowed by any means but it reflects the idea that those agencies are not necessarily comfortable with where the ncaa is to go. Thank you for the work that you guys at gao have done. I do think it is an important issue beyond the spectrum issue. We can do that in terms of our oversight but on further coordination between these federal agencies, the broadband appointment funding is another one that i think it is very important. That i think is very important. I appreciate that, senator. Many of the solutions that mr. Sullivan will discover, create, demand during the conversation will help. I want to thank him for that. We want them in new mexico next. We will conclude the hearing. There are a few things i wanted to ask based on the conversation we already had. I want to follow up where senator sullivan concluded his question of mr. Brown with the report. Two of the reports were produced on the urgent need of improvement with coordination and the process for federal Spectrum Management. I would agree with the testimony here today that the updated memorandum of spectrum coordination is real progress. I think that needs to be emphasized. I think there was complete bipartisan agreement on every aspect of that. I want to ensure both agencies are empowered to prioritize the Public Interest in spectrum discussion and how we get there. That is building off of the chair specific to the needs and allocations. All on how they should be prioritized. I am not going to get in trouble with families and communities across the country that did not have connectivity during the most recent health scare the country experienced with covid but we should anticipate other needs down the road and with the promise of the bipartisan infrastructure bill that says 100 of the country will be connected. I hope that will be proven true and 100 of the country will be connected. Answer the questions during the implementation. This mission is critical and i appreciate your ongoing work to provide factbased nonpartisan information. It will go back to you quit a bit. In your testimony, ms. Baker, you advocate for promoting the minister of mti to the mission of undersecretary. Can you explain why that is important for everyone to consider . Thank you for the question. As undersecretary, you are at a higher level. If youre dealing with a cabinet level, the balance is over there. Elevating this would help show the authority that Congress Needs in adjudicating spectrum disputes. There is some recommendations that came out of the jail. I think this is an area for everyone to pay attention. It could be as simple as insuring that someone at the table is truly respected by those doing work with them so i very much appreciate that awareness as well. Mr. Lewis, from your testimony, i think you can put this to work for all americans. It is congresss job to determine which solution will ultimately serve the Public Interest. In this discussion, i want to stress that Public Safety must remain a priority. The importance of looking at safe and Reliable Communication Networks ensure Public Safety officials like Law Enforcement and medical professionals can do their job. We have a terrible problem with missing and murdered indigenous people. Some of that may have a mobile device on them but cannot make the 911 call to be found. The last text that may save your life. Solutions to triangulate where that person was the last time they may have pinged off the tower which could save your life. This issue is finally getting the attention of the federal government in a way that should have been there from day one. When i say Public Safety, especially with the fires we are seeing now and in new mexico which was started by the federal government, a burn that got out of control, i am told it is a very low percentage but nonetheless, that low percentage started to fires in our state recently cost people their homes and now we are seeing flooding in those communities that are costing people their lives. With that being said, how can congress best ensure Public Safety . There are a number of ways senator. Certainly the investment of dollars as a Public Interest value is one that we are highlighting today. Thank you for your leadership on the resiliency of the communications networks. We need to continue to emphasize that during natural disasters and other emergency situations. But also, when we are talking about spectrum policy, the importance of setting the rules for prioritization on the network. We talked about the success of the cprs band that has access prioritization but also making sure that emergency medications and Public Safety is prioritized. I think that is an important priority. Your testimony caught my attention. That is your incentive program. The chair has highlighted what this program into advanced Wireless Services and rural and tribal communities. How can Congress Expand to better promote competition . It is a simple mandate to extend the same concepts and values we saw. This is the idea of petitioning off spectrum and incentivizing licensed services to partition off that spectrum so communities that dont have access can use it when theyre not using it. Well talk about that requirement and that can lead to these duties. While there is a more robust conversation taking place, and injection of money like we have never seen in the United States to connect in the country, this will be critical if in fact assumptions that have been made that it will connect 100 of the country in states that hard to connect with some of those challenges exist with topography and geography, this is an area that could provide some solutions. One area that has received a lot of attention, i am very proud to represent the state with a lot of problems and tribal communities. One of the questions i have based on conversations with different leaders and those that have been hired responsible for this work is sometimes given the short timeline, there are challenges this is where we looked at tribal broadband issues. Let me start by saying that it was a great idea. If you have hundreds of tribes that dont have access to spectrum access. For many of them and the work that we have done, the frustration was they got the licenses but they did not get any funding along with it. So they had to figure out what to do with it. The federal programs that could support that broadband infrastructure, theyll have their timelines for tribes to apply for. Then there are the ones that dont have a telco that serves the tribal lands were their own Wireless Network at this point. They have a reliance, whether it help them be a consultant for local telco. We are to leverage federal programs to address the kind of programs you see on tribal land. We made a recommendation to include a travel focus and we made recommendations to the department of congress to bring tribal issues to bear in their ongoing coronation efforts across all these different broadband programs. Hopefully this makes some headway into this very important issue. Those lands do fall behind in terms of connectivity. It is my hope that several committees also will show interest in this particular area. With infrastructure challenges still in front, things of that nature, this is another area we are getting that connectivity and being able to provide that support the more families will help us connect more people. I do have a question on the timeline with the house bill. I am hoping to get a perspective from every one of the panelists that are able to answer this. 18 months was the time that was included in the authorization bill. I heard from some of my colleagues that that is a position they support. They dont want to see this authorization go away. As we Work Together, we have to wonder if you are open to a longer time than 18 months. As this is moved forward, i hope to pass before september 30. Definitely open. You heard my preference for a Permanent Authority but the longer the authority, the better. It sends the right signal that we are looking for a multi sector when win here. 18 months has been agreed to by the house. I like it. I think it makes some sense to keep the stakeholders at the table so we can have a longterm spectrum pipeline. That will be really important as you add a shortterm extension to a longterm extension. They have to have specific things attached to it. I think 18 months is about right boat i am not married to it. But i am not married to it. We want to make sure that people dont move on to another problem and focus on the fact that we have to get a spectrum pipeline and it will take a lot of work. Open to a longer period as long as partners are at the table and having a conversation about what would be included as part of that. Collect. Correct. The rest of the globe is moving forward on 5g and we need to get our path. Longer . Lets see what we can do. I will stop pushing. I appreciate that. We certainly think that this is very important. We would only say that we believe whatever spectrum has decided on in terms of relocation. You are no longer at cbo. I hope we wont get a similar answer but what are your thoughts here . I will try, thank you. We also need spectrum pipeline. If 18 months is the only way youre going to get the focus and attention to do it to get the spectrum pipeline, then thats a tradeoff it is worth considering. It does come with some tradeoff. An 18 month Authority Comes with some problem in that they dont have the authority to plan past that. They cannot contract past 18 months. It throws some sand in the gears, but if it ultimately serves the purpose of getting the bigger work of pipeline together, then thats a tradeoff worth considering. I appreciate that. This is tough. This is not easy policy, it can be messy at times. What i have heard from everyone, all stakeholders that i have had a chance to speak to is that what certainty provides and what longterm build may be in place and in planning given the bipartisan infrastructure bill, where we are with the work that is still happening on existing authorizations, the questions i still have as well as what does it mean come september 30 . Is the authority allowed to continue based on the work theyre doing and what happens then . I hope we get an answer to that soon. Because of the challenges on that timeline, thats where my head is. Also understanding the work that was done in years past when i was a member of the house energy and Commerce Committee and on the subcommittee and the work that has continued with the callings that i serve on here, there was an opinion which always means how do you Work Together . If there is a willingness to try to find that given the right conclusion to what this may mean to prevent september 30 expiration, i know that im speaking in this perfect world, but nonetheless thats how i operate. Im an optimist. The same way we had a very respectful hearing today, you have a lot of people who are interested here. How can everyone Work Together to include these ideas so we can get something adopted . I dont want to see a world where september 30 comes and goes then october comes and goes then november then december and everyone is saying dont worry, it will be done in the new year. Thats the worst thing we could do. Lets get a fifth fcc commissioner while were at it. Im hopeful we can get there. That we can have a full operating commission, we can get spectrum reauthorization, we can move down the road in a way that optimizes how people will get connected in the country. One last cleanup, i wasnt anticipating bringing this up but it was an area of emphasis by my colleagues, there was a question about changes in the tax law. The question was asked such that will your members not all of the members would fill that change would they . The 15 . I can ask it a different way. It is my understanding that companies that have 1 billion in profit not revenue but profit are those that would be included in the provisions that were discussed several of our colleagues and being looked at with impact. Is your question are the smaller carriers not impacted by this . Is it a larger Spectrum Holding issue . Parks carriers that do not make 1 billion in profit. I find that any retroactive tax on this Critical Infrastructure input doesnt seem like the right policy for building out broadband to all of america. I appreciate that. Since the question was pointed by my colleagues, it is my understanding and i can pull the language here is that it would impact forprofit companies with 1 billion in profit. Thats where the 15 would be levied there and up. With that being said, your 230 members if i have my math right or if i look at the website correctly, based on my look the website, six or seven major Telecommunication Companies that have exceeded 1 billion in profit, nonetheless that is my understanding of how this would get hit. Im looking for that clarification because one of the questions was asked such that when i heard the response, it felt like everyone would get hit by the 15 and im looking to clarify the record that way. Expert says you are correct. My assumption is that were looking at those that are building broadband nationwide so that would be us drunk a smaller subset. I would have to get back to you on more information on that. I look forward to hearing more and hopefully we can submit something to the record so you get a chance to respond to that. The five or six that i have identified and many others there may be others that they have exceeded coverage all over the country that i will make sure we submit that so you get a chance to be able to answer that thoroughly as well. With that being said, i want to thank everyone for their time today. I want to thank the staff that were responsible for putting this together as they always are. Everyone who showed an interest in covering this important issue. The record will remain open for two weeks to allow everyone to be able to submit comments and testimony and our colleagues as well who wish to supplement that. With that, this hearing is adjourned. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]. Its. American Insurance Companies regulation it is historic and it ensures local markets and needs are taken into consideration. The naic coordinates state commissioners to identify risks. Congress created the federal sherbet two promote national coordination. I am pleased to have the mariner maryland commissioner on behalf of on the naic and darrell sykes if we are going to keep hard earned money safe, blockade specializing in Life Insurance and owned by the private equity firm. Overnight, Lockheed Martin employed retirees and notified their pensions would be managed by a fee. Many employees are very nervous about that. One example of private equity giants expansion into peoples pension. We note workers and up worse off when wall street private equity firms get involved. We have seen it over and over. I asked naic and f ill look into private equities and expansion into similar pension risk. We need to understand the risks to workers. Naic and f i provided letters. Fio has done similar work. Those connections have added it risk concerns. Taken together, insurance authorities are focused on emerging risks to safeguard the economy. Argument needs rely on insurance to protect level 1s loved ones. We cant ignore when risks are built up. We know who pays the price and it is rarely insurance and executives. It is workers and families. Taxpayers who are forced to bail out companies. We have to make sure industries and agencies are prepared for risks as more americans based climate catastrophes every year. We need to ensure that insurance watchdogs are prepared. In the aftermath of disasters, we have leaving families and businesses struggling to find affordable coverage as they work to rebuild their lives. We know the industry is along has a long history of Racial Discrimination and many other industries. Black and brown families make have more difficulty in getting insurance. The New York Times reported that the customer insurance agencies and employees sued state farm and eight discrimination in the workplace in discrimination in the workplace. They requested information about large life in pnc insurance involvement. I am glad they are working on this and the naic is investigating. I look forward to reviewing fios report. I hope it will shed more light on racial equity. Later this year, the International Association of insurance supervisors will need to conserve whether the u. S. Insurance Systems Review up sanders meets International Criteria because we regulate up to meets International Criteria of standards meets International Criteria now the fed vice chair has been confirmed. Michael barr is testifying today. We will get to work with international counterparts. These issues show how critical the work you to do is to be economy. I expect fio and naic to pry our best prioritize the risks to prioritize the risks. It has been a while since our committee has held a hearing on the Insurance Industry. There are topics i would like to touch on. One is the importance of the statebased insurance regulation problem we have. Avarice to develop international and insurance efforts to develop International Insurance standards. The importance of riskbased pricing. It is important to remind everyone as the chairman alluded to that Insurance Firms are likely a at the state level are regulated at the state level. The federal government has a limited regulatory role. The system works for consumers and the industry. That is why we need to pay close attention for efforts to develop interNational Standards. I worry that the insurance capital standards developed by the International Association of insurance supervisors is incompatible with the u. S. Insurance market. There is why said widespread concern that the this not take into account certain aspects that insurance holds. The result is the implementation of it would harm the availability of longterm Insurance Products that americans rely on. Our u. S. Representatives at i ais needs to make sure that it works for the u. S. Market. I would like to touch on troubling efforts to use the Financial System to address Climate Change. There are liberal activist who want to pressure Insurance Companies to deny services to Traditional Energy companies. Those efforts are misguided. Addressing the difficult challenges posed by Global Warming soaring Energy Prices european nations have made plans to open coal plants. We have seen the Biden Administration hostility to oil production. In a democratic society, those choices and the tradeoffs must be made by elected representatives who are accountable to the american people. Not insurance executives. Ensure space financial risk in the form of financial disasters. It is the core of the business. Insurers they are going need to adjust their prices accordingly. Higher premiums are a important signal. They create a financial incentive to mitigate risks which lead to safer and more resilient communities in society. A wellfunctioning Insurance Industry is capable of addressing the National Disaster risk that it faces today and in the future. I would like to address plants plans this program would be akin to the terrorism risk program. It mandates that insurance offered terrorism insurance and in the event of a tap attack, the federal government has an increasing share. Similar programs will be problematic. It in a matter of months, the paycheck by banks and other Financial Institutions participated on a voluntary basis. Compare that to the disaster claims process after hurricane sandy. The Insurance Program but encouraged states and local governments to impose economic devastating shutdowns in the future. With the assurance of the federal government risk Insurance Program would bail them out instead of considering policy that would facilitate. Lockdowns. We should be thinking of future and dont harm the children education. A wellfunctioning Insurance Industry is a critical of pop component of economic prosperity. Everyone will be better off if we resist efforts to use insurance as a tool to have private system insurance goals. Lets happen insurers stick to the business of insurance and i look forward to discussing these issues today. I would like to introduce todays witnesses. The honorable Kathleen Birrane is testifying on the behalf of naic. Mr. Steven seitz joined fios Director Office previously. Welcome to both of you. Members of the committee, thank you for the information invitation to testify. I will touch briefly on several issues. We have been actively monitoring the growth and private Equity Growth insurance. We have checks and balances to protect policyholders. As insurers of all types are searching for an vesting yield to avoid racing raising prices considering new requirements to ensure our facility ability to to address policyholders. We are working with 13 regulatory considerations and other insurance with similar features. We have extensive data reporting and analytical capability to review and assess alternative investments or unique structures and are continuing to apply those tools. We are confident in the system to oversee and insurers. We will keep the committee apprised of our work. Next, insurance regulators recognize the importance of cybersecurity Risk Management and continue to operate data security. That naic Insurance Data Security Model law updates regulatory requirements related to security, the investment of cyber event and the notification of cyber events. States adopt the model, which covers 83 of the market. The naic created a new innovation Cybersecurity Committee to address the insurance implications of emerging technologies in cybersecurity and to ensure consistency among insurance regulators. Feet see facilitates exercises with insurers to explore Cyber Incidents response. Another priority is climate risk. The naic facilitated which is now aligned to be these disclosures cover 80 of the market by premium help insurance assess risk and actions to mitigate crime climates risk. We recommended that wildfires be explicitly added to the framework for catastrophe risk exposure. We are creating a Catastrophe Model Center of excellence to provide insurance regulators to access of information and training. Another area of activity is the intersection of race and insurance. The nics work focuses on evaluating issues of race and diversity. The nic formed a new avenue to help foster instruments in the insurance careers swept a focus on students from underserved communities. State insurance regulators continue to engage on a variety of issues including the development of an insurance capital standards. The naic along with partners are clear that the best outwork for the u. S. Market and they have developed an aggregation method to that iac f. Finally, we will like to highlight a few of our federal priorities. We urge congress to pass a reauthorization that encourages investment in flood mitigation efforts and we support government scots pat act. We are working on legislation to helpers protect policy owners during an insurance receivership. I am pleased to take questions. Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today about current issues. I am the director of the federal Insurance Office. I would like to begin by outlining files role fios role and responsibilities. We provide a range of projects to help needs of businesses. Iao fio advises the treasury secretary on major domestic policy issues have access to affordable Insurance Products, assists in negotiating agreements with performance foreign jurisdictions. As fios director, i also served with a nonvoting member with the National Security building council. I would like to highlight five current fio priorities. Climate financial risk is a top priority. We are focus our with three areas. First, we plan to publish a report assessing climate related issues and gaps in the superman supervision and regulation of insurance. We are evaluating the potential of major disruptions of private insurance. Third, we are increasing engagement domestically and internationally on climate financial risk issues. As we move forward with efforts, we will see data to increase understanding on the wrist to Climate Change to policy owners. The second focus area is the growing role of alternative asset managers. This evolution is one that our office has highlighted for several years. It warrants increased intention to ensure mechanisms are designed to address activities that we outlined in our recent letter. We encourage continued focus. Fio continued to prioritize four areas of research and action. Liquidity risk, credit risk and capital addicts advocacy, offshore potential conflicts of interest. We are focused on fiber related risks, which is a top priority of the federal government. We have been examining our own cyber resistance. We have increased Data Collection and have supported the development of treasuries counter ransom strategy. We have worked with agencies in connection with the recommendation that we assess the need for federal backstop for Cyber Insurance. We are coordinating closely with the white house cyber director on issues. Our fourth priority is the representation of the United States with closed carnation with the naic coordination with the naic. We are considering topics and the related comparability work and evolving involving the application method. These topics are important initiatives that will affect the u. S. Insurance sector and is critical for fio in the u. S. To engage with these issues. We are prioritizing our work on diversity, equity and inclusion. Fio looks at these issues through the lens of affordability with Insurance Products. We are working to update our study on personal Auto Insurance portability. These issues are key components of our climate work. On all of these topics, fio values are close relationship and ordination with state regulators, are federal partners and international counterparts. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. Thank you. Thank you for files fios response. You mentioned that once a Company Transfers its pension obligations in eight pension risk in a pension Risk Transfer what problems arise when pensions are transferred to life insurers and how do they pose risks to workers i do have that concerns about the broader Financial System and the impact. Thank you for that question. We share your interest. The u. S. Insurance sector and the life and retirement sector is critical for working americans that rely on these products. We highlighted the four key areas. Enhancing files monitoring of the Liquidity Risk of the financial sector. We are looking at regulatory measures and whether they are designed to accommodate and regulate this business model. We are looking at the officer reinsurance implications, particularly the increase entered interconnectedness with the u. S. And europe markets. We are looking at potential conflicts of interest. We will look with the naic and the states Going Forward. My interests in this issue has increased because Congress Worked a year ago and was able to fix in the congress pension system. We know that human cost of failing pensions close to workers who have the expectations. It is imperative that insurers and become a full we count on both of you commissioner, thank you for being here. I have heard from nonprofit associations greasing to state insurance about difficulties of finding finding affordable properties. What are tools available for state Insurance Commissioners to solve this market fairly earlier failure . The in ic has long opposed the expansion of the act to allow our r. G. s to buy commercial property insurance. We have serious concerns that nonprofits that are vulnerable to be could be put at greater risk by if they are allowed to purchase their property insurance from a into see that is not subject to the same rigorous standards and multistate enforcement as other carriers and that creates an uneven playing field. Most states have a residual market for property insurance. In my state, i have queried our nonprofits and this is not an issue that we see in the state of maryland. Other commissioners are making efforts to look at their markets to see where issues exist and we would be happy to know about specific circumstances and make ourselves available to work with nonprofits that are having difficulty getting commercial property insurance. Your assess students assessment differs from ours. It is a serious problem that has not been solved in the past with faced with similar issues. I am working to amend things to address the issue affecting communitybased nonprofits. Director sykes, are you concerned . Thank you for that question. We have also been tracking this issue. We have been engaging with various stakeholders on the topic. We will look forward to working with the naic and your team as we look into this issue. We have a working with naic to find a solution with retention groups under nrc regulations and commissioner, i wanted to ask, can we Work Together to find a solution that responsibly increases insurance capacity for rrgs to address the problem . We want to Work Together to construct an solution and we are happy to work with you. Thank you. I wanted to ask if their questions a third question about climate catastrophe risk and we will submit something in mind writing. Thank you. That chairman brought up the circumstances that occur occasionally where pension Risk Transfer occurs and by understanding is the nature of this is when a company has a defined benefit obligation to insert retirees, it can purchase an annuity from an Insurance Company that transfers the management of this to an Insurance Company. In that scenario, it is my understanding that the pp d. C. Guarantee no longer of class. There are insurance funds. What i be correct in assuring the assuming that the insurance guarantee would be there as a backstop for companies to honor their obligations . That is correct. After the transfer concerns, something no longer applies but the no longer applies to be risk because what is happening is that the pension fund is find an insurance product buying a insurance product. Your experience and you will probably agree with me that Insurance Companies have extensive experience in managing longterm liabilities. That is what they do. The idea of whether they are in a good position to manage the longterm liabilities of a defined benefit pension plan suggests to me that they were likely while still best suited to manage the task they are likely well suited to manage the task. Insurance regulators hold life Insurance Companies to must much bricks much stricter standards. Those regulars rigorous standards dont go away. If anything, private equity funds are subject to stricter election. Regulation. Director sites, seitz, it has come to my attention that there is work being done done involving private equity insurance and i am not sure that you are involved with that for the international i lose track of my acronyms here. It is not iais. V iais. Is that true . With regard to that, they have discussed the topic of private equity. I cant disclose the private conversation but it is one of the themes we are seeing in the micro production. Are you involved in the efforts to make recommendations regarding private equity involvement in insurance . We are coordinating with the Federal Reserve and others on issues including work related to the capital standards and regarding the holistic framework which steve and i ic is adopting which the naic is adopting. You didnt answer my question. Are you involved in Research Update analysis that includes policy recommendations involving analysis that includes policy recommendations . We are working closely with the and aic in the states and there are topics we are discussing and one of the topics is private equity. You are updating my question. Evading my question. If there is a memo or a piece of Research Work that is done and you are involved and it is submits to submitted to the iais, the you intend to share that with the committee . We value the importance of transparency and we will work with partners to make sure that there is appropriate transparency and this is a topic that will be included in the report to this Committee Regarding our activities. I am out of time mr. Chairman. The senator from rhode island is recognized. Thank you. In may 2021, a study was released about challenges that ensures that policy holder space based holders face. Ensuring that policies provide appropriate coverage . Thank you for your question. We have closely reviewed the study and contributed to it and we agreed agree with the conclusions. Looking at the pricing challenges that have been happening, additionally, you are seeing carriers withdraw coverage. In particular, an area of focus is the extent to which cyber coverage is available to small and medium enterprises. We have collected information for the first time last year regarding the extent to which smes affect coverage. Have that coverage. At this point, terrorism insurance, with that includes chuck include Cyber Attacks . A dust cover Cyber Insurance rates and in the lines of insurance and regard to our work, it is an addition an issue we have discussed extensively, physically how the particularly how are you working with the insured sing Insurance Industry to address the cyber issues . There seems to be a new challenge prevented presented by cyber something. I would say with respect to the nrc, what we have got to develop as a cybersecurity supplement for ensure insurers statements. We utilize data that we have captured within this cyber supplement to monitor risks. What we can confirm is that between 2020 and 2021, there was an increase of 75 indirect written premium that was clear that was growth due to primary plea to price increases primarily due to price increases. Premiers premiums are going up and limits are going down. It is a much harder environment. With respect to the environment, we are engaged with efforts to look at what is the appropriate backstop, how do we make sure there is a robust Financial Financial backup available, even if the Insurance Market doesnt have the appetite to cover all of it. Any comments . I think the commissioner said it well. You point out the increasing prices of Cyber Insurance, which affects every business and Small Businesses. What steps can state regulators take to try to reduce coverage . Insurance is fundamentally based on risk. Pricing is based on risks. That is what we expect them to do so as risks increase, so do premiums. We have switches we can toggle in terms of opening up markets like the surplus lines markets or the passive arrangements will for certain companies. At some point, there are risks that are high are either too large or volatility there are or they are to certain to be affordable as we would like them to be. When we see the tightening of the market, the increasing costs and underwriting standards creates discipline and helps with good cyber hygiene. Ed asks businesses it asks businesses to be more responsible and take cyber risks seriously. That allows their programs to be more affordable. Thank you very much. Thank you to both of you for being with us today. As you are both aware, in response to the development proposed at the team usa propose the aggregation method at an alternative framework. Comments in response to a consultation of the proposed criteria to it and dictates it indicates that the current process may be biased towards the ics. It precludes which we want. Could each of you take a minute and explain why a eurocentric capital model would have a negative impact to consumer access to insurer products. I would begin with the commissioner. And you for the question thank you for the question. The u. S. Market includes a number of foreign owned insurance. Comparability would allow the foreign jurisdiction to divert to u. S. Capitol requirements. As u. S. Based insurers seek to operate abroad, it is important that those countries recognize relevant aspects of the system. The agreements between the u. S. And eu and u. K. Along with all of five george edition qualified jurisdiction processes already require capital. Director seitz . I am assuming you are in agreement with my statement that you want to maintain the current proposal we use. Thank you for your question. It is critically important for the u. S. Sector and we have been working on this for several years in coordination. We we made engaged in the conversation. In particular, the International Community is moving ahead with the interNational Standard. We need to improve the methodology so it is more compatible to the u. S. System. Vi the ics doesnt reflect we look forward to working with the partners as we take this step forward. I believe that the u. S. System is the Gold Standard when it comes to protecting Insurance Markets. Commissioner, do you believe our statebased regulatory system has been effective and successful . What is interesting, asked senator brown referred to aig, and i know many have lived through that time, one sent ce nt of companies that did well were Insurance Companies, the pic carriers that were regulated by the state. As aig stock to recover, it was those assets they were able to sell to find the find fund the economy garrett recovery. Their recovery. The notion that policyholders in those rare instances where there have been an insolvency are not getting paid, is unheard of. What the statebased rep. Torres system has proved, having just come through a pandemic and an difficult environment the state insurance system is protecting policyholders and claims are being paid and it is infinitely clear that the mechanisms that exist at the statebased level are able to protect policyholders and respond quickly to changes in in circumstances in circumstances. I couldnt agree with you more and i believe that congress should allow you and the naic to do your job and i think it is imperative that congress recognizes that it has worked successfully and we will talk about the other items. One of them is private equity. There are good messages about what private equity has done for the interest markets. My time has expired. I think you for your answers today i thank you for your answers today. Senator menendez is recognized. Thank you. Last year, i introduced the clarifying law around insurance of marijuana act. [indiscernible] provided a shape safe harbor for insurers to involved provide products without the risk of federal prosecution. It was included as a provision of a state banking act. And you describe why we need the safe banking act enacted as soon as possible . The naic does support the safe banking act. The safe banking act would help remove federal barriers for insurers to and short states legalized cannabis businesses. It is critical that businesses are able to buy insurance and what claims occur, they can use the Banking System to pay claims. Making ask what allow that to happen banking acts would allow that to happen. [indiscernible] imagine a scenario where a jersey lightbulb manufacturer provides some products to a manager marijuana business and it causes a fire. That sounds the challenge that Insurance Companies have is using the Banking System to transfer on to a cannabis business. The answer is that is a circumstance that could be challenging for that lightbulb companys and sure and trying to use the Banking System to pay money to the campus cannabis business. Let me turn to pandemic risk insurance. When covid19 hit our country, Small Business owners discovered the most business disease are pandemic, leaving many businesses without relief. Congress provided a bipartisan basis trillions of dollars in aid to help keep Small Businesses afloat. I voted for the American Rescue plan, which was critical to the response but we should be planning ahead to better protect our economy from the rest of a do pandemic a new pandemic that could overwhelm the health system. The question of the next pandemic is not if but when. Commissioner, is there Still Limited pandemic interrupting coverage in the market . The scope of coverage in the market has not changed. It has not expanded. Wouldnt Business Owners and employees of the federal government be better prepared for the next pandemic after congress established a publicprivate solution to provide coverage for pandemic related losses . I think business is an area where the risk is potentially so large and so uncertain that it is not going to be covered by the private Insurance Market and in those circumstances, it is appropriate to discuss what Publicprivate Partnership you could do in order to make sure that financing is available in those circumstances. I appreciate that. It is critical we plan ahead for the next pandemic rather than wait to the next outbreak. What we need is to a way to incentivize businesses to preserve the lessons of covid and except a level of personal responsibility. I dont know those who would simply wait until eight crisis point and have the federal government distributes billions of dollars instead of a targeted response. Finally, mr. Chairman, fema reported that over for 25,000 420 500,000 to 20 20 of the policyholders with drop coverage over 10 years. The agency predicted it would take years for 425,000 aussie overs to drop coverage but it took eight short months. I think fema has misled us and i want to work with you to advance the Bipartisan Legislation we had before the problem gets worse. Thank you. The senator from antenna is recognized montana is recognized. I want to thank the folks here. I want to touch back on cyber. Commissioner, is there anything that washington, d. C. Needs to do to deal with cyber from your industry perspective or are we are or are we ok . Are you speaking in terms of the protection cap . I am speaking in terms of the threats and i will get into the increase do due to cyber. Is there anything we can do in terms of relief . From the perspective of our industry is that we are looking at assuring that there are adequate controls in the Insurance Industry so they can withstand potential cyber threats. What the and act naic has been developed engaged in is a law which improves and increase the security of data and the rapid next of notice to any rapid next rapid this rapidness. But between these agencies, the issue is being handled adequately . We have an adequate model in place. When senator reid was asking a question, you said there was a 75 increase in premiums due to cyber . When we talk about Insurance Companies as risk financers, policies have become more expensive for the businesses that buy policies. That is what timeframe . One year. The Ranking Member talked about you dealing with risks. Have you done that with issues around climate . Where i live in montana, it is dry as hell. You probably heard about the flood in yellowstone park. It seems like we are having 500 year event every decade. You take that into account did you take that into account . We track the severity of perils in the claims. In the world of climates, c limate, weather patterns are changing and they are causing increased claim activity. Can you give me an idea from property damages standpoint, what the increase in premiums would be . I dont have the numbers and i am happy to followup at the increases are exponential. We are seeing larger numbers of claims. Weather events are frequent and severe. I would love to get those numbers because there are a number of folks in the body of congress that think ignoring climate is something that will make you go away, when in fact, my experience is it aint going away. It is getting far worse. Last year was the worst we crop we have ever had. We have been on the farm for 45 years. I want to talk quickly about an arab. We have passed a bill years ago and we still dont have a board through obama or trump. Can you get me the benefits of that board . That is an issue that we would probably do better briefing you on. The position we have is the board should be created and established. Can you give me an update on the status of that board being fully functional . Thank you for that question. We shared recognizing be importance of it and we have been meeting with stakeholders on. To sort of thing through the process and it is an issue that we have focused on through the last two years. I am way out of time but i would say, please be aggressive. Bounce some people around and get this damn thing done. It will be a win for the consumer and industry and nation. Senator hagerty is recognized. Thank you both and to our guests. I will like to turn to you, commissioner. There have been concerns raised about the lack of regulation and transparency. I would like to talk to you from a state regulatory standpoint. Our insurers treated any differently than other insurers and are they able to avoid oversight at the state level . No. Private equity owned insurers are not treated any differently than other insurance except to the extent that it has been the comments since 2013 that states have imposed greater in requirements they have been required to accept additional conditions. That is the condition of the approval of their investment and their assessment of the Insurance Company. They are now part of the financial handbook that states use when they assess a request by any entity to purchase a Insurance Company. In christ light investments not just made five the macro potential working group has constructed a list of considerations that are focused on investment disclosures, ownership collateral, these and pension risks transfer guidance. You said that there are additional regulations in place for private equity owned insurances at the state level. That is business standard. Back to patient Risk Transfers, that is the process by which a corporation may transfer pension risk to an Insurance Company, what tools do state regulators have to ensure policyholders. . Be insurance regulators have a robust the insurance regulators have a robust set of tools. Our system is designed to avoid failure. Are system is designed to have object into the financial standing of the companies who use a variety of tools to assure that Companies Maintain the reserve date need, but tickly with Life Insurance that have longterm risks. To assure that they are adequately reserved. The fact that in may, the National Association of Insurance Commissioners sent a letter to chairman brown on the topic of alternative assets quantities. The state regulators possessed the tools and resources necessary to address chairman browns concerns. Like any other industry, Life Insurance will continue to evolve. I am certain they will provide new and better products and it is clear that state regulators have the tools they need to continue in the role. Do you agree with that . I do. Thank you. Senator warren of massachusetts is recognized. Not content with buying newspapers and Single Family homes, retail chains and pretty much everything else, private equity has set its sights on a new moneymaker, American Retirement savings. Private equity has hoovered equity products. Zero presents just over a decade ago. These private owned equity insurers have developed a taste for worker pension. Under this model private equity giants like apollo are buying up pension obligations from big employers like jcpenney and Lockheed Martin. Almost 300,000 americans today have pensions that are managed by private equity firms. Mr. Seitz, you run the office that oversees Insurance Products. I want to ask you about the safety of these americans pensions. When someone report retires from a company like jcpenney and alcoa and their pension was transferred over to apollos insurance arm, you say that the retirees pension is just as financially secure now that it is managed by a private equity ownerensure, as it was before . Mr. Seitz thank you, senator, for that question. We share your view on the importance of this issue and recognize the importance of pensions to millions of americans relying on those for their retirement, and a dignified retirement. We are working closely with regulatory considerations as they look at their framework and how to best address not only changes in the pe sector, more broadly in the Life Insurance sector with regard to their investment and liquidity. Sen. Warren i appreciate you care about these issues, but that is not the question i asked. Once there has been a transfer to apollos insurance arm, are the people covered just as secure as they were before the transfer . That is easy. Yes or no . Mr. Seitz the individuals, when their policies are transferred they are covered by the state guarantee funds, and it is an area of focus for our office to make sure the make sure regulatory mechanisms are being designed to reflect these new transactions. Sen. Warren im still not hearing a yes or no. Just make clear, in a september 2021 report the federal Insurance Office, which you run, stated that pe owners may use Investment Strategies for their own insurance entities that have heightened credit and Liquidity Risk profiles as compared to other market participants. And tended to hold a more significant proportion of investments in alternative or nontraditional insurance assets that are associated with a liquidity and complexity premiums. Do you still agree with what you said . Mr. Seitz thank you, senator. We have articulated those same points in our letter to chairman brown a few months ago, and it is an issue we are focused on, and we appreciate the changing investment portfolio of those companies, as well as across the broader Life Insurance sen. Warren in other words there is more risk . Mr. Seitz it is an area of increased focus for our office. Sen. Warren exposing American Retirement savings to more risk is exactly how private equity makes its money. Riskier and more complex investments means that private equitybacked insurers can jack up their returns and shortterm profits. But the pensions are more vulnerable to being wiped out by a market downturn, which endangers the Insurance Companies insolvency. This is not hard. This is just how the pieces work. For example, 1 5 of the portfolio is invested in risky assetbacked securities and leveraged loans made to companies that are already highly indebted. And even worse, many of the scenes risky investments are created or managed by the parent company, apollo, itself. This means that apollo collects fees on the investments that it directed its insurance arm to make. So, look, this is a problem of more risk, and the risk is borne by people who have invested for all of their working lives in their Retirement Security. I want to underline the word security. My stop wall street looting act would strengthen private equity disclosures to empower investors and help regulators crackdown on selfdealing, that we also need federal and state insurance regulators to step up and address the risk that private equity poses to pensioners and workers. I appreciate that treasury and naic are looking at this closely, but enough studying. It is time to act. Im looking forward to working with your offices to ensure that happens. Thank you. Sen. Brown the senator from kansas. Thank you. We start with you, director sites director seitz. Concern has been expressed about private equity firms, however that term is defined, having a short time horizon for their investments and insurers, and thus may be willing to engage in riskier activities. Can you tell me if there are insurers that have been purchased by private equity that have been sold or are up for sale, indicating a quick turnaround . Mr. Seitz thank you, senator. It is an issue we are monitoring, particularly over the last we have seen an increase in activity over the last several years, and particularly for certain blocks of business, and it is an area we are continuing to monitor. Sen. Moran the question was, whether examples of Insurance Companies are there and in short fashion sold . Are then in short fashion sold . Mr. Seitz they are not making those types of movements that you described. Sen. Moran thank you. I do want to indicate that my experience in kansas is a pe firms purchase of Insurance Companies has turned out to be very valuable to that company, to those companies, and it benefited the company and its employees with an influx of capital that fueled growth and additional jobs, and helped those Insurance Companies continue to be in existence and grow their book of business and Economic Activity in our state. Then i was listening on the television about a question that the Ranking Member asked. It does seem to me this administration is determined to import financial regulations and capital standards from europe as quickly or as pervasive as they can. My view is that we need that we do not need the importation of european policy to hating American Business and markets. And that the fs top priority should be defending american interests and preserving a system that has worked so well as i heard you indicate, of state regulation over a century. You want to be promoting that in the international forms. I was night i was not quite certain you answered senator toomeys question, but i will have my thoughts to that topic. Thank you. Sen. Brown thank you. Senator sinema is recognized, i believe from her office. Sen. Sinema thank you, chairman. Want to start by talking to our witnesses about our working group that i convened last year. A Bipartisan Working Group with other members of this committee to identify advanced solutions around risksharing. Our goal is to improve the resiliency of the economy to future pandemicrelated economic shocks. We do this by creating insurance frameworks that bring forward the power of the private sector and provide Business Owners with choices to buy coverage that aligns with their needs and risk tolerance. That will reduce the price tag of any future Pandemic Response and address some of the waste we are seeing with respect to pandemic a. Our response to future pandemics need to be leaner, faster, and smarter, and it is important to me that future responses are fiscally responsible. It is clear that the risks of overspending, coupled with supply chain disruption, can trigger an inflationary response. As you know, for insurance policies that cover cancellation and interruptions, virtually all of them include exclusions that exempt pandemics from coverage, despite this i have heard from businesses and Insurance Brokers that cancellation and Business Interruption coverage is increasingly difficult to find and is expensive if you can find at what do you see in the market for these lines . Ms. Biranne i think your characterization of the current market condition is correct, and i do not see that changing in the near future. I think there are certain types of risks that are come as i have said before, too large, too volatile for the market to be able to absorb them. Thank you. Our working group is concerned about this because we want businesses to afford the policies they need and responsibly plan for the future. My question is for you, commissioner. I would like to also see and insurance for Small Businesses so they can take a level responsibility that aligns with the risk tolerance. In 2020 some businesses had to wait months to get their ppp loans, and they had to go from two to access relief. I would rather have a framework where businesses could purchase subsidized coverage where it is affordable and the Business Owner knows how much coverage they are getting. Would you agree that a preestablished private insurance policy would generally provide faster and more predictable relief for businesses to plan around . Ms. Biranne what i would suggest is that the in eic has supported the idea of a federal backstop with respect to the eye coverage. Certainly it is important that Business Owners have a sense of certainty about what the Coverage Options are, but there are a variety of models that work well when the government and private industry coupled together and draw on the strength of each. The strength of government to fund broadly and the strength of Insurance Companies to be able to appropriately underwrite and price and adjudicate claims and assist businesses in risk mitigation. I would say overall there is a case to be made for such a partnership and the particular model of that partnership is something the in eic does not have a position on. Sen. Sinema thank you. Would you agree the auditing capacities that private insurance brings would be helpful in reducing waste, fraud, and abuse in a future pandemic . Ms. Biranne i would say Insurance Companies, part of what they bring to the table is expertise in underwriting and risk mitigation, as well as Risk Financing and fraud detection. Sen. Sinema thank you. I have a question for you about insurance generally. In your experience regulating Insurance Companies would you say an insurance carrier bearing some level of risk incentive incentivizes them to conduct more robust Risk Management, since their own capital is on the line . Ms. Biranne i would say that Insurance Companies generally very effective at reviewing risks, and in helping their insured to mitigate those risks. When you have an insurance policy, particularly in the property and casualty area, the Insurance Company plays an integral role in the underwriting process and the pricing process in helping companies to mitigate the risks they are trying to finance. Sen. Sinema thank you. Finally i will say we are working to identify thought a thoughtful and bipartisan solution to this issue and create a smarter response for future pandemic. Our working group appreciates the commissioners strong leadership in endorsing a federal solution and im looking forward to working with you and other key stakeholders. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Sen. Brown senator van hollen of maryland is recognized. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Commissioner biranne, it is great to have a fellow maryland are here. Thank you for your work protecting the interests of marylanders in your work. I want to thank you and naic for helping me and my colleagues prepare legislation to protect seniors from financial fraud. The legislation is titled empowering states to protect seniors from bad actors act. And it would provide an authorization Grant Program to the sec to provide both state securities and insurance regulators with additional resources, to crack down on fraud, which we know is a huge problem, 3 billion a year at least in financial scams. Can you speak briefly to the importance of passing this legislation to protect seniors from financial fraud . Ms. Biranne absolutely. We have been very happy to work with you on this initiative. Consumer protection is what insurance regulation is all about. And there is probably no more important area of Consumer Protection than ensuring that our seniors are not subject to aggressive Marketing Tactics and to other fraudulent practices. It is critically important that we have all of the Resources Available to ensure that we are on the ground with seniors directly to be able to prevent them from being caught up in fraud. Sen. Van hollen thank you. Im going to ask the chairman and Ranking Member to join us in getting that out. Sen. Brown we were just speaking about that quietly. Sen. Van hollen i appreciate that. Thank you. Let me ask you a couple of questions regarding capital standards in the context of climate risk. As you well know, an porton an important part of it is to ensure their ability to play their claims following catastrophic events. One of the concerns is that with increasing severity and frequency of extreme weather events that the riskbased capital models they overemphasize the trends of older Historical Data and not adequately assess your risks. So twopart question. What is the naacp doing to ensure its models incorporate the most recent and relevant climate data . In order to reflect the true risks. Secondly, from a Risk Management and capital adequacy perspective how important is it for insurance regulators to have to have standardized data on climate risk . Ms. Biranne with respect to the first issue, i would say what our solvency work work frame is doing is working closely and making sure our models are accurate and or uptodate, and we are adding additional perils to the rbc capital framework. To ensure we capture more broadly the various events that can occur. That is the first thing. Secondly, with respect to Data Collection, the in eic naic has Data Collection that captures what needs to be captured. That is something subject to constant update and improvement. We have both on the individual state level and in the aggregate through the in eic naic, capture data through the Way Insurance regulators use that data to understand what our claims patterns and where claims are occurring and why and how claims are being paid and what the impact of that is on insolvency and the financial status of entities. Sen. Van hollen is there an effort to create some kind of National Standard so that states are not using, you know, 50 different standards for this purpose . Ms. Biranne there is conversation through our center of excellence on the development of a single standard and being able to work with Insurance Companies, what would be appropriate in that regard. That is a conversation that is occurring as to whether a centralized and standardized approach is the one that makes the best sense. In the interim these Data Collections that occurs around natural disasters is very robust. They sen. Van hollen thank you. Mr. Seitz, i dont know if you want to comment on the two parts of the question . Mr. Seitz i would say we share your view on the importance of granular data. On our office we are looking at it through the lens of affordability, particularly in the homeowners business line. It is an area we have seen sums some need for National Standards and approaches. Sen. Van hollen we have obviously seen a huge increase in property losses due to extreme weather events over the last couple of decades. If you could maybe try to quantify for me in the committee what the increase in premiums have been as a result of increased climate risk . I realize that as an imperfect science, but i would like a ballpark estimate if you could get back to us on that. Mr. Seitz sen. Brown senator cortez masto is recognized from her office. Sen. Cortez masto thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you to the two speakers today. Let me at the very beginning show support for senator menendezs question around the safe banking act. This is about supporting Small Businesses, which is the backbone of our economy. It has bipartisan support. I think it should be passed. I hope my colleagues feel the same way. Director seitz, let me talk to about the federal review happening. The fha recently announced a review of our Home Loan Bank system. Are you aware of the proposed review, and i have a question about whether the Insurance Office plans to monitor or participate in the review of the bank review happening as well . Let me put this out there. It was surprising for me to realize that 548 Insurance Companies are members of the federal Home Loan Banks and they received one quarter of the advances. Im curious if the organization is going to be reviewing and following with the what the fha is doing . Mr. Seitz thank you, senator, for that question. The federal Home Loan Banks play an Important Role in our housing markets. We are well aware that Insurance Companies, particularly life insurers, are increasing participants and taking advances. It is an area we have been discussing with our colleagues at the fha and we look forward to continuing to engage with them as they begin the review process that was just recently started. Sen. Van hollen thank you. I hope you do continue to monitor it. Left jump to an issue my colleagues have been talking about, which is private equity. Before we get there i want to follow up on Business Interruption insurance. In march 2020 when the covid pandemic began my office received calls from Business Owners who had insurance. They chose policies that included Business Interruption insurance and they paid the premiums. Then when the pandemic hit they had to close down due to a risk of contamination, obviously. But they were not covered. So, i guess my question to both of you is, talk a little bit about it. Is it feasible for Insurance Companies to provide pandemic insurance . Then, when it comes to private equity, ms. Birrane, let me talk to you about this. In particular the transfer of ownership or risk from private equity to some Insurance Companies. One of the things you identified is that there are certain types of risks that are too large and volatile for the market to absorb them. And you dont feel that way about private equity as they come in and purchase so many of unfortunately, Insurance Companies and so many assets. I know i am asking and conflating two questions, they are similarly related, and this is the concern. Insurance companies are not covering the risk when there is a pandemic even though companies are paying for it, if there is some risk related with private equity and there is, god for bid, some disaster, economically, how can we guarantee that that coverage will exist by Insurance Companies as well . Is there a correlation between the two . Or do you feel that protections have been put in place by the naic adopting these regulations when it comes to private equity . Lets start with you. Ms. Biranne when what i would say is let us think about this as a matter of contract. When you think about the Business Interruption insurance dental policies baked into policies, those contract terms exempted Business Interruptions caused by things like contaminations that would fall within a pandemic, or that did not result from a physical covered peril. Those gaps in coverage were baked into the policies, and unfortunately many Business Owners were not as were not really aware that those limitations existed. If we look at private equity as a general matter, i would come back to the notion that the private equity firm as an owner of the Insurance Company does not run the Insurance Company in the same way. Insurance companies are subject to a set of clear rules and guidelines of air around what Insurance Companies can do, from the kinds of investments they can make, to the credit they get for those investments, to the riskbased capital standards in place. None of those are different because the owner is a private equity company. Continue to monitor and regulate the performance of the company regardless of the ownership. Hopefully that helps contrast those two circumstances. Sen. Smith i note sen. Cortez masto i know my time is running out. That is very helpful. Director seitz, do you feel the same way with respect to private Equity Companies . That they can be covered by these regulations that naic has adopted . Mr. Seitz we appreciate the importance of Retirement Security products for millions of americans, and we are working closely with the naic and states as they develop the regulatory considerations. As our letter noted, there are areas of focus for our office, and also to the Life Insurance sector more generally irrespective of sometimes the Business Models as well. Sen. Cortez masto thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Sen. Brown thank you, senator. Thanks, commissioner, and thanks, director, both of you, for answering questions forthrightly and being here today. And especially for your public service. Would like to submit the testimony of a retiree of the northwestern Bell Telephone company, whose pension is now administered by athene. For senators who wish to register questions, those are due september 15. Please submit your responses to questions for the record 45 days no more than 45 days from the day you received them. With that, the hearing is adjourned. That workon farms around americ. Today we are meeting to examine workplace detections for child farmworkers. Todays hearing represents the third in the series for spotlight workers that are all too often overlooked, neglected and exploited. The hearings have been invented to lift workers up and champion their causes. Each day hundreds of thousands many of whom come from low income migrant families risk their health and wellbeing while working on farms across the country. Child farmworkers should be able to rely on the basic workplace protections that are standard. Unfortunately, the nations labor law has left the child workers behind. While the fair standard laborers fact provides protections in the workforce, children working in the Agricultural Industry are either excluded from many of these protections were provided Legal Protections for example unlike other industries, child farmworkers can be assigned hazardous jobs from the age of 16. This allows them to generally work longer hours compared to other child workers. Additionally, supervisors often provide little to no leaving the children to manage heavy machinery, pesticides and even. [inaudible] as one of 14yearold child said be careful do not hurt yourself, but thats basically it. Another child farmworkers said none of our bosses have told us how we can protect ourselves. Our nation has turned its back on child farmworkers as a result its devastating. A recent study showed those in North Carolina found 70 of the children were exposed to harmful pesticides in the field. Another study of the child farmworkers found nearly 50 of children suffered from heat related illnesses and between 2003 to 2017, child farmworkers are counted for over 50 of all workrelated child fatalities despite making up only about 5 of all child workers in the country. Child farmworkers are frequently underpaid for the dangerous work they perform and while they are entitled to the minimum wage, employers with low wages are under reporting hours. The children are also ready to purchase their own equipment, undercutting their meager income. This demands work that also results in High School Dropout rates at four times the National Average and as we all know it can be in the cycle of poverty. As lawmakers we have the responsibility to protect all workers no matter where and to make sure each of them have the opportunity to achieve their dream. The congresswoman of california for her longstanding leadership to sponsor 7345 the act responsible for the safety of 2022 where the care act of 2022 without also a cosponsor. A bill that would prohibit any industry from workers under the age of 14. It would protect children from harmful pesticides and repeal the waiver that allows children under the age of ten to handpick crops and require employers to report injuries. Legislation goes a long way to make sure children working in agriculture are protected for children working in other industries so i look forward to hearing from the witnesses and working with my colleagues to protect an opening statement. Agriculture provides valuable opportunities for young people in rural areas across the country. As a nation, we should be encouraging americans to pursue a career in not discouraging them. The average age is nearly 60yearsold. The title of todays hearing, children examining workplace protections for child farmworkers. Children at risk in america are because of policies like an open order where fentanyl comes across. Where we have massive inflation in a 40 year high so parents cant afford. Children are at risk from the thispending in washington, d. C. T weve seen happening over the past few years under oneparty rule from the democrats and the Biden Administration. They have to pay back the money and what we want to do here is villain eyes americas farmers. As a young child, i was 14, 15yearsold and i helped bale hay and do chores on the farm. As far as saying they run dangerous equipment, they dont do that. Farmers dont want people hurt. And a lot of things farming. I learn things are important to me as a youngster. I learned how to drive up to learn how to do a lot of things. I learn things that benefited meet later in life. Like a work ethic. How to problem solve, how do do a lot of things. That is what i learned. I am reminded of a thing said by paul harvey. Hes a radio personality hosts, he has a show. He would talk about things. One thing he said in 1978 and going to read it for the committee. On the eighth day, god looked down on his paradise and said i need a caretaker, so god made a farmer. God said i need somebody willing to get up before dawn, milk cows, oracle there in the field, felt cozy and come eat supper and then go down to town and stay past midnight at the meeting of the school board so god made a farmer. I need somebodys arms Strong Enough to wrestle a calf yet gentle enough to rock a child. Someone should call hogs, tame cantankerous machinery, come home hungry, and have to wait lunch tills wife is done visiting and tell the legs is sure to become back real soon and mean it. And so god made a farmer. God said i need somebody willing to sit up all night with a newborn colt and watch it dive, then draw his eyes and say maybe next year. I need somebody who can shoot a horse with a chunk of carter who can make harness out of payware, she scraps, and in planting time and harvest season will finish a 40 hour week by tuesday noon and then put in another 72 hours. And so god made a farmer. Godhead of someone willing to ride the roads at double speed to get the hay in the head of the rain clouds. And yet stop in midvale and raced to help when he sees the first smoke from a neighbors place so god made a farmer. God said i need someone Strong Enough to clear trees and he felt it gentle enough to take lambs, wean pigs in tend who will stop his mower for an hour choose glint the broken leg of a meadowlark. It had to be somebody who plowed deep and straight and not cut corners. Somebody to feed, weed, breed rate, disk, plow, plant and tie the fleecing, strain the milk, replenish the feeder and finish her heart works week with a 5mile drive to church. So i did bail a family together with the soft strong bonds who would laugh and then sigh and then reply was smiling eyes on his son says he wants to spend his life doing what dad does. So god made a farmer. I worked on a farm. And i know how much the person that later became my stepdad after i got married, cared about me coming to help on his farm. As a kid from town. And i tell you what i just want to say thank you to my stepdad for caring, for loving me. In teaching me so many valuable lessons about how special it is to be here in United States of america. We should be focusing on the issues i mentioned first that are putting our children at risk which is an open order were fentanyls coming across killing young americans. Where parents cannot afford to buy things for their parents because were dealing with record high inflation. High gas prices. For the crab to pay back the subject. If we want our kids have it better off than we did, those are the things we should be focused on. I yield back. Thank you to the Ranking Member. Thank you very much for you without objection all the members of written statements sent to the record may do so. I submitted them to the committee electronically at microsoft word format by 5 00 p. M. September 21. I will now introduce the witnesses. Is it senior childrens rights does went rights watch Human Rights Watch excuse me. As an expert on child Agricultural Labor policy and advocate stronger protections for child agricultural workers. Doctor lee is a director of the National Childrens center for Rural Agricultural Health and safety. And it Senior Research scientist at the marshfield clinic. Doctor lee is an expert of the failed health and safety issues will show the reality of the dangers and hazards facing children in agricultural settings. Boswell is the council at the law firm of austin and byrd. Ms. Boswell has extensive experience in Agricultural Labor policy be previously served in the United States department of agriculture during the trump administration. Was also the director of congressional relations for the American Farm bureau federation. Ms. Norma florez lopez is a Committee Chair of the Child Labor Coalition a former child work her herself. Ms. Florez lopez knows firsthand the dangers of Agricultural Labor and is a leading advocate for stronger protections for farmworkers. To the witnesses, thank you very much for participating today. We look forward to your testimony. But let me remind the witnesses we have read your written statement. They will appear full in the hearing records. The Community Practice each of you is asked to limit your oral presentation to a five minute summary of your wit written statement. But before you begin your testimony please remember to unmute your microphone during your testimony. Staff will be keeping track of time. The timer is visible to you at the witness table. Beat please be in attendance to the time put wrap up when your time is over and re mute your microphone. We will let all of the witnesses make their presentations before we move to member questions. When answering a question, please remember to unmute your microphone. The witnesses are aware of the responsibility to provide Accurate Information to the subcommittee and therefore we will proceed with their testimony. Our first recognize you are now recognized for five minutes. Thank you chair adams. Chair scott, Ranking Member keller distinguished members of the committee the opportunity to testify today about the urgent need for congress and president Bidens Administration to strengthen u. S. Labor law and regulations. To protect children from hazardous work in agriculture. Im a Senior Researchers at Human Rights Watch International Human Rights Organization pit since 2000 human righteous report on the dangerous conditions children face a working. My colleagues and i interviewed hundreds of child farmworkers and publish their accounts and detailed reports but many of them were 1214 hour days on the farm and the punishing heat without sufficient breaks or hydration. Most have received no Safety Training or protective equipment. Even though they are sharp tools and heavy machinery inclined to dangerous heights on ladders and in barns with nothing to protect them from falling. Many were exposed to toxic pesticides and nontobacco barns children face the added risk of being exposed to nicotine a neurotoxin. More than two thirds of the wondered 30 child farmer interviewed described experiencing nausea, vomiting, headaches and dizziness while working with tobacco plants. All symptoms of acute nicotine poisoning. Policy governing child labor in agriculture are far too weak. There also very out of touch with the National Human rights standards. Agricultures most dangerous industry for child workers forget longstanding loopholes and long regulations allow children to work from younger ages and for longer hours on farms than any other sector. Under the fair labor standard act, children as young as 12 can work unlimited hours on farms of any side with parental permission as long the is no minimum wage for children to work on farms or family farms buried all the sector 16 is a basic minimum wage for employment. Employing children younger than 14 is granted. The chairman also children working agriculture u. S. Department of labor has determined for tickly hazardous at younger ages than any other working children. Hazardous occupations at age 16 all other sectors workers must be 18 to do hazardous work. For example workers at a deli counter cannot use a meat slicer until theyre 18 but in agriculture children at 16 can use a power driven circular saws. Despite these dangers the department of labor has not updated the list of hazardous agricultural occupation since 1970 for example children under 16 can work at heights up to 20 feet without any protection. Contacting us sector employers must enter protections for any work over 6 feet. Twenty years ago, the National Institute for Occupational Safety and recommended updating the hazardous occupation orders for both agricultural and nonagricultural jobs. In 2011, proposed updating the list for hazardous agricultural occupation is in 2012 in response to misguided opposition. Illicit hazardous occupations for nonagricultural work was completed in 2010. Strongly urge the committee to press the administration to make this an urgent priority exercise several members during the july congressional letter to secretary walsh urgent to update this list. Throughout history the myspace has exploited the labor of black indigenous latin exit of the people of color and their children in agriculture. The child labor exemptions we mean nus regulations in agriculture are part of this racist legacy and disproportionally harm children of hispanic origin in the u. S. The vast majority of child farmworkers. This congress has an opportunity to make longoverdue changes to u. S. Labor law. Perform safety sponsored by representatives and cosponsored by many members of this committee. The same basic workplace protection as other working children enjoy. It would eliminate work by 12 yearolds and raise the basic minimum wage for our culture work to 14. Another important building children do not belong on tobacco barn farms act children under 18 with work with tobacco product urged this committee to work these important bills and also use its authority to urged to update the list of hazardous occupations. Farmworkers have a right to equal protection to the law. Child labor laws are woefully out of date and put child farmworkers that unacceptable risk Word Congress should act swiftly to make sure all working children are protected equally. Thank you. Thank you very much. Doctor lee you are now recognized for five minutes. Thank you chairwoman adams and Ranking Member keller for addressing this important issue. My comments are based on 35 year career dedicated to improving the health and safety of children younger than 18 years who live and or work on a nations 2 million farms and ranches. Agriculture remains were the most Dangerous Industries in our country and despite considerable risk in the past 30 years far too many young people suffered Health Conditions and injuries associated with farm work. At the same time, we know appropriate supervised work for young people offers her valuable experience and perspective has delayed later become productive contributors to our society. Our team in wisconsin spearheaded the 1996 National Action plan for protecting children and agriculture. Endorsed by congress wanting a Major Initiative led by the occupational and health. And the 2007 upgrade the to increase collaboration between agricultural safety researchers, educators and Farm Organization leaders. Although this committee is addressing working please keep in mind or than two thirds of farm injuries and dust occurred to nonworking children. Agricultural hazards by their parents, work supervisors Public Policy playing a key role. Regarding Occupational Injuries agriculture is a leading number of deaths across all industries for workers younger than 16. The numbers are even restarting for workers younger than 14 with about a dozen dying on the job each year. And for nonfatal workrelated injuries about 2907 or 50 are seriously injured each year. Most common sources of injuries and deaths are tractors and a work vehicle such as atv and skid steers. Other causes are machinery and livestock. In addition to injury, youth workers also face health risks. Most notably respiratory exposures from organic dust, pesticide, cleaning and gases for theres no question Climate Change have negative impacts on farm work will likely intensify in the future. With conditions such as high heat in extreme weather storms. Additional concerns sections relate to animals, insects and skeletal disorders and Mental Health. As all of these diseases the injuries can have lifelong implications for young developing bodies and minds. Some changes in Public Policy need to account for agricultural landscape i was an expectation differ from urban settings but Rural Communities comprise 14 of our population and the rates of poverty, Food Insecurity lack of healthcare insurance is about 20 higher than urban areas. Public policy can improve protections for youth working agriculture by one raising minimum wage for hired workers from 12 14 years, to come updating the hazards, occupation orders and agriculture consistent with the practices technology and science. In district attorneys their untapped exciting space opportunities for young people to have positive Work Experiences the political will to make these opportunities a reality. Thank you. Thank you very much. Ms. Boswell, you are now recognized for five minutes. Cooks chairwoman adams, Ranking Member keller and members of the subcommittee. I appreciate the invitation testified today ive worked in Agriculture Policy and law im currently counseled also Senior Advisor to secretary of agriculture sunny perdue. And member of the farm bureau federation. Of all these positions is included Agricultural Labor and firm safety issues. Let me begin by noting i am testifying today in my personal capacity and not on behalf of any clients. I was one of the young people we are here to talk about today. I grew up in a multigenerational family farm in rural, nebraska. I worked sidebyside with my dad, my mom, and my two older sisters. Im the first to admit farm work as hard. It is dirty. It is hot, and it is sometimes dangerous. I drove tractors drawing hay bales in the grain cart during harvest railroad horses, i fed a bucket calves and i fixed down the fence. I cut and they sprayed weeds. To some these may seem unfamiliar or scary. Or even unsafe. But to me, they are completely second nature. We can all agree this critically important to ensure anyone working in agriculture is safe. Farmers are committed to offering jobs that are skill level appropriate will still give it young people invaluable handson experience. Farmers dont anyone to get hurt and they work very closely with their local ffa chapter, Extension Officers and Safety Experts to provide practical educational experience in a controlled environment like farm safety days. Also farmers to safely perform their job in a work environment. I hope we can also agree giving young people Job Opportunities to build responsibility and develop life skills is incredibly important. In many farming communities the only job available is working for that local farmer. That handson experience gives young people excited about agriculture. Not for the faint of heart it takes Financial Investment acceptance of risk and grit. It is dedication that can only be cultivated by being engaged in a young age. With the average age of a farmer being nearly 60 years old and the need to feed an evergrowing population, it is critical now more than ever that our policies develop our next generation of farmers and ranchers rather than discouraging them. Unfortunately hr 7345 fails to balance the mutual goal of safety with the need to provide Youth Experience in agriculture. It completely removes parental discretion and restricts the type of jobs you can perform on the farm. It dictates an arbitrary age threshold for when youth are ready for a type of work completely ignoring their own individual experience and maturity level. Break into a proposal such as the one we saw from the department of labor during the Obama Administration, work misguided overreaching. Severely narrowing the parental exemption and opportunities for student learning. Plus a desiccant everything from milking a cow to standing on a. I understand the sponsors hr 7345 do not intend to limit exemptions for family farms and student learner program. Unfortunately, despite these rotations the Farming Community is very little confidence that any regulatory proposal would not dramatically impact the ability to work on family farms or through programs like ffa and 4h. Working on a farm gave me deep work ethic, appreciation and respect for agriculture that brought me here today. I was fortunate to have been born on family farm. However, many are not precluded my nieces and nephews. Hr 7345, might nieces and nephews would not have been able to dhs accorded ages 12 and 13 despite their parents knowing they were auteur enough to handle the job. The 2011 laboratory proposal not been defeated my 18yearold nephew who plans to farm would not have been able to work on my dads a farm like he has for the past six years but they are the next generation of farming. We must not curb their enthusiasm by saying you cant do this. Instead, lets find a way to say let me help teach you to do this safely but i hope todays hearing can be the start of an informed policy discussion that bounced safety and recognizes the value of handson experience and the need to encourage participation in agriculture for our future of global Food Production. I appreciate the opportunity to testify and look for to answering your questions. Thank you very much. Thank you ms. Boswell. We will hear now for ms. Florez you have five minutes. Members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today on the issue of u. S. Child labor in agriculture and the lack of basic protection for child farm workers from joining at today the Rio Grande Valley in south texas home to thousands of farmers all across the country to harvest fruits and vegetables American Families joy every day. Each year, my family packed all of our belongings into a pickup truck and headed up north to indiana, michigan, colorado and iowa to work in corn and asparagus fields, apple orchards and packinghouses. To date journey including tire blots, bad weather and tragic car accidents. Our long road trip and it dilapidated and crowded housing and isolated Rural Communities with the promise of backbreaking work ahead. This way of life was my parents inheritance from their parents and in turn, they pass it on to me and my four sisters. A life of surviving hard work, low wages lack of protections and unfulfilled promise. My father and mother both usborn children were pulled out of school at very young age and tasked with helping the desperately poor families working on American Farms. Together them over what have years of experience with no Economic Security official for the decades of in the fields. I was destined to be trapped in the same generational cycle of poverty as my parents my grandparents but at the age of nine i worked in apple orchards alongside my parents under the system that encourages any hands as possible to harvest while hiding child labor violations. At age 12 i was legally permitted to work unlimited hours outside of school. This meant ten 12 hour days, seven days a week at times working for a week straight with no days off during peak harvest. I was expected to keep up with adults and often push myself beyond my limits while performing dangerous and backbreaking work with sharp tools in 100degree weather. Necessity such as bathroom and clean Drinking Water were not always guaranteed. And neither was training. These were the everyday dangers inherent to the industry but my parents tried to keep me safe. But i learned very quickly this is not within their control. For our family to stay employed and house, we needed everyone to perform the type of work, the number of hours, and the locations are set by the labor contractors at all times. We were subjected to sexual harassment, verbal abuse and made to work under dangerous conditions with no recourse. We were reminded daily that we were disposable and how our dismissal will be of no consequence to the farm operation. To believe we needed them more than they needed us. Our desperate poverty their total control over us bolstered by the lack of oversight that are still commonplace it is a mix exploitation and agricultural problem. It is why you have the same people empower fighting to keep the system in place today. Even though ive not worked in the field in 20 years, i still live with the fear of the longterm Health Consequences such as cancer, alzheimers and parkinsons disease linked to the billions of pounds of chemicals they use on farms every year. The work i did under those conditions was not good for me or Vocational Training. And said teach me valuable life lessons to help me succeed, it attacked my helping create barriers to my education. As a migrant i tended too or even three schools in different states each school year. The destruction have a constant playing catch up and kept me from participating in extracurricular activities. I struggled to keep my grades up at times getting failed in a course on my first live class. My parents who only had an Elementary School education spoke no english did not have the ability to help me and the resources were not always available. Tremendous sacrifice for my family i graduate high school and eventually earned my masters degree. However the majority of farmers do not even graduate high school they drop out four times the National Average. I am not alone for these are the same harrowing experiences i heard my parents and grandparents and also heard from other farmers throughout my career. Its experience approximate 3000 farm working children today each of them a life, person, part of our community. But would be even more heartbreaking as congress chooses to do nothing will be the same experience youre going to hear from children 20 years from now. Data clearly shows agriculture to the u. S. Child labor laws to the detriment of child farm workers which the majority are u. S. Citizens. The care act sponsored by representative cosponsored by many members of this committee will give children working agriculture the same workplace protection that every other working child is provided. The protect 12 yearolds from exploitation and recent basic minimum what wage of agricultural work to 14. It is sure 1415yearold children do the work that will not require with their education, health, life at risk. Thank you. Thank you very much. Brexit our Committee Rule 9a a question witnesses under the five minute rule. SubCommittee Members in seniority order. Again to ensure five minute rule staff will be keeping track of time. Please wrap up when your time is over. And re mute your microphone. I recognized myself for five minutes. Doctor lee what a short knowledge of legal consequences for having adults which is working inside grain bins for hauling hay wagons behind an old tractor on a public road . Its a good question. Our team is currently conducting research on this topic. We have searched for legal cases over the last five years. Interestingly enough there is only been 12 completed cases in which some charges were filed. And of these, only one was a hired teenager for her. What we are finding is Public Officials such as Child Protective Services say this is just farming. Were going to leave them alone. To me it is a double standard. Guess on farms get fewer legal oversight protection than their city friends. But when most commonly see as Young Children or children put in a situation where theyre expected to conduct work on these are some of the bad apples out there that are misusing their kids and having them work in inappropriate situations. We doubt believe charges like jail time or penalties like that are needed. But we would really like to see happen more often is that parents or supervisors are held accountable. They are expected to improve safety conditions on the permit minute to take Parenting Classes or safety classes. But, what we want to see his behaviors and practices change that are right now putting some of these kids into very dangerous situations. Thank you. So how can we ensure smaller family farms will be exempt from regulatory changes or standards was still receive the proper training and education to protect Young Workers . That is hard. We really cannot ensure any type of voluntary training. There are many challenges to implementing a National Program unless theres some kind of incentive or penalties for not doing it. We know usda has funded several initiatives to put on National Programs. But they are not always available partly because of funding or personnel. Art center here has been fortunate we received federal funding to develop worker guidelines, voluntary work guidelines. They are available online. They are available on mobile apps. They help parents or adults match the work with the skills and the abilities of their children. But not everyone has access to these for they do not all know about them. We really need to have behavior changes behind educating the youth brickwork thank you maam. Can you expand on how the current agriculture for child labor in the fair labor standards act disproportionately impacts children of color . Absolutely. The majority of children that are working have zero two no control over their work conditions, their parents are children that look like and be part of hearing about the experiences that were detrimental that were dangerous, they were terrible to my wellbeing and our futures children who look like me. The fair labor standards act was set it was children that were black theyre being exploited out in the fields and made for work for very, very low wages. Today is very much the same conditions the difference is we are exploiting the latinos, the migrant communities that are coming into the u. S. That are desperately poor do not have any recourse for they do not understand the language they are and do not have any real way of being able to reach out and ask for help. Those are the same conditions i saw for myself and people who look just like me. I would work alongside it times next to kids that were from the community that were white that spoke english. The treatment was night and day. The fact is the law permits for them to treat me terribly while allowing children that are white of the commute sit next to mom and dad and church to be treated very differently than people like me. We need to make sure we are protecting all children. Not just being okay with the fact its those kids of the community theyre being protected by the migrant ones are being left to be exploited. Thank you very much afraid thank you both your testimony. Im going to yield back now going to recognize Ranking Member for the purpose of questioning. Ms. Boswell, in july 46 House Democrats sent a letter to secretary of labor walsh asking him to revise a 2011 rule issued by the Obama Labor Department that restricted employment on family farms. In 2012 dol it a reverse roll after farmers across the country democrat and republican members of congress and other government officials raise substantial concerns. What were some of the concerns with 2011 proposed rule . Thank you for the question. The proposal under the Obama Administration was completely misguided made broad sweeping changes that completely blindsided the agriculture industry. I was at american farnborough federation at the time. There was no discussion before that proposal came out with the egg industry engaging anyone there would have firsthand experience with farming practices. While singapore checked the family farm exemption it is completely false. The proposed language it limited the structure so that if i worked on my dads farm in the farm was an llc i could no longer work. The legal structure in todays farming makes any difference of my dads a care about my health and safety. Also, i mentioned my nephew in my testimony. He lives a 5 miles to my dads farm. He has worked with my dad and again hopes to be a farmer. Under that proposal because he did not live with my dad for 30 days at least, he would not be covered under the redemption. For the learner redemption limits and restricted which of the hazardous occupation the student trent student learner applied to. Basically only then providing that learning ability to drive a tractor and there is an exemption for elevations above. But handling animals, an example of this would have restricted many ffa students by animal, by cattle. They take care of that herd including their health and vaccination schedule. They would not have been able to do that in that learning program. It expanded the hazardous occupation. You could not drive a tractor of any size but you could not operate operate Power Equipment including lawnmowers, fixing a fence near livestock, corralling livestock being in any animal pen with an animal that unpredictable behavior. Frankly this proposal would be simply revise without having an informed discussion with the farmers and ranchers who want to be at the table. It will be met with opposition. Its met with skepticism the promises of keeping the family farm intact would hold true. And again there is room for conversation. Just providing that proposal would have dramatic impact on agriculture as we know it. Is probably negatively impact the 4h students that rave trent raised livestock at the county fairs all across the commonwealth. I see how the kids really enjoy it raising those they have to clean the pens, and they have to be able to care for the animals. I think that probably impact that also, wouldnt it . It would produce not just showing up at the county or state fair. There is work that goes into that all through the summer and the spring. I showed pigs at the fair. I was in charge of feeding them for it i was in charge of cleaning out their pens but i was in charge of taking care of them. That was part of the work that was being performed. Its not done with proper information, it would certainly limit those opportunities for 4h and ffa students to interact with livestock as they are preparing for the fair. Thank you. Ms. Boswell, another thing we are discussing the health and safety of Young People Working in agriculture. As the hearing we cannot ignore the elephant in the room. President bidens border crisis is a manmade disaster illegal aliens and drugs are flowing the country at record levels with no end in sight. This also endanger the health and safety of young people under 18 years old were trying to cross the southern border. But entity border crisis, stopping illegal immigration on building the wall help alleviate danger proposed to the health and safety of young people who have been encouraged across the border by the Biden Administration border policies . I a jury addressing Border Security will help alleviate the dangers there being afflicted on vulnerable young people that are crossing the border. Thank you yield back. Thank you pretty want to recognize the gentleman from new jersey you are recognized for five minutes per. Thank you med and chairwoman. Appreciate you holding the hearing. Yes new jersey, the garden state. I spent my summers on a farm it was with my relatives in tennessee. And you are absolutely right. It is amazing what you learn is young person. And i certainly appreciate that. We just came off labor day. We have been celebrating this for over 100 years. Mcguire of the founder of labor day it was to create a weekend. Back then it was one day off. We know we know its two days off. But the other thing was the exploitation of child labor im trying to put the brakes on that. Because as we know during the Industrial Revolution children were exploited, there is no question about that. But i do it to commend the Ranking Member keller for talking about the birth of the Agricultural Industry. Yes, yes, and yes. Absolutely encourage more people to get involved. One thing we do know i grew up in a slightly different area that was the construction industry. Very hazardous, very dangerous one thing more hazardous than construction is agriculture. We know that. The figures speak for themselves. It is incredibly dangerous the tractor flips with piece of equipment we could stop and the rest as they say is history. One of the things i fascinating some of the opening remarks recently in the last decade Health Protection of the 6foot ladder. I, unfortunately as a young electrician and eager apprentice who fell off a ladder from just 7 feet. The idea that it is okay to put 20 feet without fall protection agriculture seems counterintuitive to everything we know. When you fall, gravity doesnt know if youre on the farm or on a construction site. Its okay to say peoples lives in construction why do we have a different standard for agriculture . These are common things like maybe we should come together on. He explained to me why there are two standards and white gravity on a farm is different from a construction site . If we can say people on a construction site i do have 20 feet in agriculture customer could you answer that for me please . I think there is always been a farming exemption and osha standards have not always applied on farms. You have to have ten or more employees for the osha standards to apply. But kids are kids, bodies our bodies but as you said there is no difference. Sometimes its even worse fall into a concrete platform. So i really believe the hazardous occupation need to be clear they need to keep in mind what is appropriate for Young Children especially. Thank you. Lets bring in farmers and have a discussion on this. These are things that have been argued for years. Weve made the changes and we have saved lives. When not trying to beat up on the farmers for they are the backbone of who we are in this country. But the idea to say that children can take more risks because youre on a farm just does not play in the common sense area. Your parents being there for you, yes we get that they can help you. But the idea that we as a society have put rules and regulations in place for children being abused. To help parents make better decisions at time. Just because youre on a farm doesnt mean you cant make a bad decision. We need to come together on this. Its not good versus evil its common sense trying to save kids lives. The idea you might have maybe 14 or 15 i think is open for discussion. But having general climbing a 2f extreme. But the one thing i see is the highest fatality for children under 16 happened on farms. That is a fact. It is not an opinion. Those are kids we really need to say. Again i appreciate both sides. We come together on this . I think its a great idea. So lets bring them together chairwoman thank you for holding this. This is incredibly important considering we are in the year 2022 and start arguing this. I yield back. Thank you sir. I want to recognize the Ranking Member of the committee on ed and labor. You are recognized for five minutes. Thank you madam chair. I appreciate it. I like to thank our witnesses for being here today. Its i want to thank the Ranking Member of the subcommittee quoting the piece from paul harvey brett read that many, many years ago its a good reminder of all the many things farmers do. Mr. Boswell, thank you so much for sharing your experience of working on a farm. I grew up also on a farm everything we ate, we grew or killed. So thank goodness i learned how to farm at an early age. Your average age of an American Farmers 57. 5yearold. Fewer than 10 agriculture producers are under 35 years old. We have concerns about policies to discourage Youth Participation in agriculture such as hr 7345. Thank you for the question doctor fox. Absolutely. Right now considering the rural population, considering we just came off a pandemic we saw a shortage and disruptions in the labor supply. Now is more than ever the timely to be encouraging agriculture and young people to go back into agriculture. We need to be developing those policies to get that exposure early, develop Educational Programs that youth need to be successful. It isnt glamorous and it is hard work. It really takes cultivating that passion at a young age. I get emotional at the paul harvey poem. I see my parents in that. I see my neighbors in them. I see that because i worked with them sidebyside. I saw them cry when a hailstorm came through. This all the joy of a successful harvest. And everything in between. That comes from a passion and agriculture. It is not something you can pick up at the age of 18 and all the sudden want to move from the city out to Rural America and start growing fruits and veggies. Yes, we are very, very fortunate we have people who feel that passion. As a smalltime farmer myself, i tell you what we have really enjoyed our garden this year. And have really been blessed with that and grateful. I understand what you say. At the same for 4h its an invaluable Education Program that encouraged and develop Young Leaders for careers in agriculture. In mr. Keller mentioned this before. With hr 7345 have a negative impact on participation in ffa and 4h programs will undermine the effective use of these vital programs. That would restricting the ability of student learners for work until the age of 14 would aptly impact the participation. Ffa Program Start and middle school and prioritizing middle School Programs and foster that interest in education at an earlier age. Was rural and urban america. 4h start even younger than that. Many of those projects include Work Experience. Now, Everyone Needs to be doing that Work Experience safely. We could make sure they understand the risk in their being supervised during. But im very skeptical that this legislation and regulatory changes that would follow, would not try limit the exemption as we have seen in the past. I now want to give a shout out to my colic i have enjoyed very much working with her over the years and going to be sorry to see her retire. But ms. Boswell, we all agree the health and safety of Young People Working in agriculture should be protected. In your experience to agriculture employers take the safety of their workers seriously . Including the workers under 18 years of age . And what are these employers doing to keep their under 18 workers safe . In my experience farmers, ranchers and egg employers across the country. And i have been fortunate to travel across the country with america or vero and usda. Speaking with farmers and egg employers firsthand. They want to be able to have the tools to do it right. To be able to follow the law, to understand the lot be able to treat their workers with a safe working environment with the tools they need to prevent injury. The key is being proactive here. I have represented agriculture employers and farmers with doctor lee on the board of esha. I also participated in the safety and agricultural youth the project was funded by usda. In those materials and guidelines that were put together by experts and by those directly working on the ground and representing farmers interests are to farmers and ranchers across america to help them apply those. Again, the key is to be proactive here. Setting an arbitrary age limit does not give those resources only described as participation overall. Madam chair i yield back precooked thank you and thank you doctor fox. I want to recognize represented steven have five minutes. Xmen interior can you hear me . Yes i can. Great, thank you for this important hearing. Its a profound honor to be with you, distinguish colleagues in the distinguished panel. I will tell you in michigan, we had more people die than work last year were continuing to toil from the effects of the covenant teen pandemic in the opioid pandemic the overall labor shortage. And at the same time, we are hearing from our farmers in michigan about the absolute need to increase the workers through these programs. Ive had this conversation with got better it made ships located in detroit. Ive had this conversation with their farms. We are at a breaking point. So we look to meet the needed Agricultural Industry i like to take those comments made in this hearing that we have an obligation to protect our children. Where they play, learn, work. We know that without basic child worker protection, child farmworkers are particularly vulnerable to abuse and endangerment. Its totally unacceptable. I am so glad we are convening today. I understand in the absence of strong federal labor protections, child farmworkers and territories across the country of taken the initiative to implement their own standards and protections. As a subCommittee Chair for research and technology and scientists and other committee where we oversee the standards certainly see how labor standards play out on this committee, can you expand on examples froms dates or localities expanded child workers can be a model for federal protection . Thank you and i would refer the Committee Members to an october 2021 report by government and Child Labor Coalition which actually looked in the statebystate across the country comparing a protection. They did find some good examples of positive practices per they found 14 as well as puerto rico have been factories the minimum age for agro cultural a 14 pin they also found 15 states and puerto rico have limited the number of deeds children can work in agriculture to six days a week as a post he federal standards. The state of florida very important agricultural state has enacted both of those protections. At the same as the care act would impose. On the work of farm workers under 16 to six days a week. They are ready to do this. With that said, it is statebystate solution are piecemeal. He heard my colleague talk about traveling state to stay with her family for each state has different protections. That is why we strongly support with the care act offers which is nationwide protection for all children. And ms. Floors lopez, you hear family experience, and the Economic Situation that people are influencing families and their children of work, what contributes to that . How do unscrupulous employers exploit the economic reality when they employ child farmworkers . My parents and my grandparents all u. S. Citizens, myself as well. We were all working out in agriculture is the desperate poverty that drove us out there. The generational cycle of poverty we were stuck in. We had no access to educational training to be able to have a protective training to be able to access the programs like 4h and ffa. Those were not a reality for any of us. We were out there and it was because we need to put food on our table. That desperate poverty is what lot those unscrupulous employers that are widespread across agriculture which has very little oversight for special when youre out there working in Rural Communities we are out of sight, out of mind but people to understand whats really happening out there. So it ends up happening is you have a population sometimes does not speak the language. The majority are undocumented. They are in Rural Communities where they dont have a lot of resources. These are different situations that create very dangerous vulnerabilities for farmworkers. Especially children that again its a desperate poverty and the lack of fair pay that really contributes and makes exploitation rights in agriculture. Thank you so much and madam chairman i yield back. Thank you, thank you for your statement pretty want to recognize representative miller meeks now. Thank you much madam chair but i think the Ranking Member as well. Thank you to the witnesses for appearing today. Although i am a doctor and Lieutenant Colonel retired Lieutenant Colonel from the army, and a congress or my first job was actually at 13 picking cucumbers in Southeast Texas britt also lived agricultural states. My district is a heavy agricultural district. I participated in over 20 county fairs and the state fair. And i know young people have even at a young age showing their rabbits, their chickens, their calves they have bottlefed. Even their llamas to name just a few of the animals and livestock them shown. Also see them develop tremendous amount of pride in their work. It increased the work ethic the ability to problem solve, to adapt, to interim provides for the tremendous confidence they have in raising an animal, showing an animal, talking about their animal in developing public speaking skills. Its interesting were having this hearing and since the time is sworn into congress in january 3020, 2020 have asked this question numerous times with education and labor and the select subcommittee on the coronavirus subcommittee task force, not once have we had a hearing on the repercussions of closing schools and masking children would not want to we talked about the Health Reproduction mental Health Consequences on our children the rate of suicide. I brought up numerous times actually put forward an amendment in the committee in order to 2 billion go to Mental Health and kasich oven tubing go to Mental Health and undergraduate colleges. Not one democrat voted for that amendment. So here we are talking about family farms, the majority of which are family farms in which children may work, try to cultivate people into the family farming business. Instead were chocolate, overregulation by the federal government and the concern that we have on corporate farms and how this would enhance that. Not once have we talked about the rate of Youth Suicide from the covid 19 pandemic and shutting down schools at the behest of the teachers union. Not want to we talked about the law which we find this in the New York Times acknowledged just recently and another article was in the wall street journal. I find it interesting that we are talking about a section of the economy or children or young people use may work on their family farm at a young age, develop tremendous and perhaps would rather have children stay indoors in our youth stay indoors and watch television or play video games knowing that does not put them at risk for obesity it doesnt put them at risk for isolation. It doesnt put them at risk of any other health positions but yet were going to talk about this one. I find that to be unconscionable that we will not address all the negative repercussions on children to include loss of learning, Mental Health, suicide, addiction, and overdose as my colleague said mention on her southern border open with the amount of drugs and fentanyl coming across our borders with a Record Number of overdoses and drug addiction. So ill just ask a simple question ms. Basel at 90 of all farms in the u. S. Are family farms. Most of which are Small Businesses. What would changing department of Labor Regulation the way the obama district proposed in 2011 that we are doing now have an small family farms customer in your experience to these businesses have inhouse counseling compliant staff that they could address the administrative and regulatory burdens . Thank you for the question. As i have said before and in my testimony, and we had not that Obama Wouldve had dramatic impact on the family farm. Despite asportations to the contrary. Again 98 are familyowned. Most farms do not have headquarters. They have their homes. They do business at the kitchen table. Its from the front door out to the barn to their machine shed to start the day. That was my experience that is the experience of most of my classmates and friends. They are savvy. No question about it to operate a farm you have to be savvy. However, they dont typically have hr teams where they do not have inhouse counsel bird they do not have a team with them thats going to measure the recordkeeping that increased. We see consolidation. My nephew is going to try but its going to be hard to find the land. Mentoring in the training. This is a detrimental practice and we need to focus on the open border. I will yield back my time. Representative you are recognized for five minutes. Thank you for holding this hearing and to all of the witnesses for being here today. The agriculture industry only employs 6 of all child workers yet the industry accounts for over half of all child workplace injuries. Child farmworkers are exempt from the protections awarded to others. Protections such as age requirement for hazardous work, allowable hours worked into basic training requirements. My republican colleagues will argue any attempt to regulate the standards would amount to unnecessary federal bureaucracy that leads to the affair and deprives the communities of valuable Vocational Training and work. When we protect the child workers from injury and death and implement standards to ensure their safety and wellbeing we protect the next generation of farmers. With reasonable exemptions for their own families, farms or participation in educational and vocational programs we can take steps to protect Young Children from the dangers of farm work without taking away their opportunities to learn and support their own families. For the child farmworkers many of whom are people of color and migrant or Seasonal Workers who are not working for their own families and who may be victims of exploited labor practices performing the labor law is essential. Working in agriculture than any other industry and when an average of 33 are injured each day, something needs to change. In the written testimony, she claims a dedication to forming can only be fostered by being engaged at a young age. While there is the need to support those that want to pursue careers in agriculture, i question whether the best way to do that is to maintain labor standards and practices that we know to be actively harmful to the future of the workforce. In your testimony you stated that even today 20 years after you last worked in the field. Thank you for the question. Both of my parents are cancer survivors and so is my aunt and many family members. Those are the lucky ones that survived. I also know there is just as many people that didnt survive and i grew up alongside of the fields. For the chemicals used on farms every year. They try not to point to especially given the signs that link the longterm exposure to those chemicals into those longterm Health Conditions that my family and my community has endured we talked about supposedly these Educational Programs they didnt receive more than a 15 minute talk since i was older about the harmful effects of pesticide years after being exposed. Before that i was told meaning medicine for the plant. That is the kind of lack of oversight and the kind of danger that farmworker children are put in especially given that children are not little adults. What we are asking for is equal treatment. The same way we dont allow for others to exploit Young Children or have them work in dangerous conditions to keep the way of life going. We are asking that they be treated just like every other child in america and protected. Let me just say quickly i feel for your pain and what you described is conscionable. You and your family will remain in my prayers and i hope that your powerful testimony today will spur the congress to act in a way that it hasnt up until this time. Thank you and i yield back madam chair. Thank you, thank you mr. Jones. Lets recognize now mr. Owens. Ive been honored to have a grandfather to raise 13 children successful and learned work ethic. The professor in this arena into the last 35 years. I was raised around the farm. A couple of things that concern me. First this one statement made earlier it ascends chills through my bones to think of the industry as figuring out how to be innovative and we are talking 90 of farmers and Small Business owners so first of all that is something we shouldnt even think about considering. Theres also the false notion. We need to make sure that we are not demanding this industry. The bad actors with our generations of farmers and beef and sheepherders we see the communities that are all about making sure they are mentoring their kids as they move forward and getting back because less than 1 of the farming industry supports the rest of the nation. But i do want to ask a couple of quick questions here. Hr 7345 raised the age to the Agricultural Task by the secretary of labor from 16 to 18. In answering the question i think we need to remember that i had a 17 people in my High School Class meaning main street as the bank, a Small Grocery store. My nephews that live in that same town cant work on farms at the age of 16 there is no other opportunities at all. There is the ability to start that work as hr 7345 does and to get any job at all either because the task would be so restrictive even though the maturity level would base that opportunity only on their age and not a factor in any of those other considerations that could also determine. Could this open the door for the new overreach as we saw with the 2011 proposed rules . I am concerned about bureaucrats in washington writing overly broad Regulation Without Technical Expertise on the farming the practices and without engaging farmers and that is exactly what we saw in 2011. I do believe that there is the conversation for farmers, regulators and i know from my experience we want to make sure everyone is safe. Thats why we are engaged with the extension and Safety Experts and committees. We want to be engaged and have that discussion but we worry the proposals will come through again and welcome and politically restrict the exemption but also not to be in touch with actual farming practices and with someone around agriculture their entire life feels comfortable doing versus may be someone who hasnt been around agriculture their entire life. Thank you so much and i will yield back. Thank you. Let me recognize the representative. You have five minutes. Thank you for all the witnesses coming out today. I believe Everyone Wants to ensure that all workers are protected and we must be especially observant to protect those under 18. I hope everybody on the committee can agree that we want to regard the safety and agricultural health. Having said that, can you find an employers for the federal government to improve Better Partnership with employers . In my experience, ive not worked at the department of labor. However when i was at the usda i worked with the secretarys office and worked directly on Agricultural Labor and safety issues. I engaged with the department of labor on a daily basis including the wage and Hour Division and so my experience working with them, i know as the mission states they take the health and safety of all workers very seriously and have the authority under the law to enforce those provisions of statute whether it is a violation and even increased penalties or the willful violations of those that have been offended in the pattern within those investigations they do have a big portfolio but the child safety is elevated as a priority for any alleged violation. They are looking at those even more seriously. The goal is to keep everyone safe. To make sure they have the tools and the knowledge to do so without arbitrary restricting the jobs young people can experience. Thank you very much for your answer and i will yield back. Let me move to the chair of the full committee on labor. You are recognized. Thank you. As you recognize in the testimony of the proposals for the standards of the Agricultural Industry generally exempt small family farms from the regulations. Can you tell us what affect the act would have on small family farms where the negative impact on the rural families . Thank you, chairman scott, for the question. The care act the legislation we are discussing today maintains the exemption for family farms that exist today. It doesnt change that family the familyfarming and i strongle that because of the experiences it is the opportunity to have the skills and training to pass down practices across the generation to be completely unaffected by the legislation. This legislation is about raising the basic minimum age for children who are hired to work. We are talking about the 12yearolds, we are moving the ability of 12yearold children to be hired to do exploited work on huge commercial agribusiness operations that would raise the basic minimum wage it wouldnt impact family funds so if they want to learn from their families and participate but still have those opportunities. The other aspect would raise from 16 to 18. Children under 18 would still have ample opportunity to do the work to participate in the work. It would only be restricted from the moment. Many members of the committee today have spoken with the strong agricultural committees. It would maintain the visible workforce why should agriculture be different from other industries it is and continues to be an industry driven by not just parents or the media but aunts, uncles and grandparents that has been restricted and the proposed regulations in the past and also congress recognized that this is Food Production and theres more and more demand to provide safe and affordable food and without being able to begin foster that interest to be able to safely encourage participation i do believe that this would impact that. I also believe there is room for a conversation about occupations and tasks. However, what weve seen have been broad sweeping unbalanced approaches that have opportunities and other societal needs to the agricultural bill. Youve been working with the agribusiness and health and safety issues for a long time. What do you think the reaction is going to be to raising the age limit of 12 to 14, and how would you respond to that criticism . The vast majority of producers, businesses and organizations want a positive and safe business and agriculture but at the same time in agriculture we are dealing with issues like Immigration Reform and labor shortages. Changing the age can be a part of a good conversation. I think that they would be willing to do that as long as there are other opportunities to make sure that they have what is needed. The request that we hear most often from the industry people is i want to do whats right but break it down, make it simple and clear and make things go the right way so i believe as long as the family farm exemption is held to maintain the agricultural employers will work with us to raise that age limit from 12 to 14. Thank you, madam chair. Thank you. Thank you, madam chair. Thank you to the witnesses. At the time when the last americans are working more than ever before with a historical low combined with the narrative there are some jobs that americans just wont do its appalling that we be here today and with those young people that want to work on the farms as they have for decades. I was better as a kid for having worked on family farms. Young people were better for learning the value of work and at the value of the dollar at a young age. Young people were better for learning the values and the life skills and the work skills that are taught on the family farm. Hard work is noble and never heard anybody. And of those who feed our country, our family farms are better for the workers they rely on. But todays hearing represents washington at its worst, those who cannot to do and those who do not know trying to dictate rules and regulations to those who do and those who know. Family farms and working young people represent what is right about america and what made America Great and what makes America Great today. Farmers already have a tough it toughenough they are strugglo survive today. I recognize many of the majority may be have no farms in the district. Perhaps theyve never been on a farm or met a farmer but you cannot feed this nation and the cities. Youve got to go to the rural areas and to those that are literally feeding the countries. If we really care about the nations young people or about young people generally, why not go after the mexican crime cartels who are exploiting antitrafficking children and young people today thousands today, thousands every day along the southern border instead of going after American Farmers. If the concern is with the health and safety of miners the priority should be ending the biden border crisis, stopping illegal immigration and building the wall. Divide the crisis encouraging the Human Trafficking including of miners on a massive scale. I appreciate you being with us today and your testimony. We know the democrats dont believe that parents should have a say in their kids education. Do you believe parents would be any better situation and the federal government to make decisions regarding their work on a family farm . Thank you for the question. That is one of the main concerns with the way the legislation is drafted. There are certainly 16yearolds that should not be doing certain jobs and there are certain 12yearolds and 14yearolds whove been around. I think a parent is more equipped to look at their child and i refuse to believe that a parent is exploiting their children or worked with their children at risk or their grandparent or their own goal i refuse to believe that so i believe that a parent can look at their 12yearold and say this is a great opportunity for you to learn time management skills and understand what it takes to have that responsibility and maybe you can visit in washington, d. C. All those things are important and the parent can make those decisions more than the department of labor or congress who doesnt know that individuals experience or maturity level. The bill would give the secretary of labor unrestricted authority to limit farmworkers under age 18 from work that the secretary of labor irrespective of the qualification experience or knowledge to the detriMental Health or wellbeing. Could that phrase still be used to organize the department of labor against the farmers . I do believe that it can especially the devil is in the details of those hazardous occupations and having experienced individuals out on the ground operating the equipment that has been greatly improved. Thank you to the industry for putting more Safety Equipment and protections and putting fruits and vegetables out to help alleviate some of that hard work. Of that engagement is important and there are certainly those that are dangerous but we have to have an informed discussion about what those are with people that work on the farm. Madam chair i will yield back you are recognized for five minutes. Thank you very much madame chair for allowing me to participate in todays hearing. We were very careful in drafting this bill to make sure that we did not in any way change current law as it impacts family farms and Educational Programs. In fact we looked at the obama language that has been referred to to address all the concerns raised back then with regards to that proposed rulemaking. They could infect work on the family farm under the spell. We do nothing to change that. The language in the bill specifically says in addition to the health and Safety Experts on the bill, it encourages were urges future farmers of america that they should be a part of any changes in terms of the rulemaking process. It shouldnt be done in isolation by bureaucrats. So we have addressed that concern as well. But the fact remained that the children working in agriculture, and we are not talking about mom and dad and kids we are talking about the migrant families and children that go from place to place throughout the season are the only group of children that are not protected by the child labor laws. As a result according to the center for the rural and health and safetythe only centes dedicated to the childhood agriculture injury prevention, 33 children are injured as daily working on farms and a child dies every three days working in agriculture. Thats the answer to the reason as to why we are having this hearing. My question farmers have always been a central workers and that has been highlighted over the last few years during the heat waves and fires and especially during the covid pandemic and during these times, farm workers who are mainly hispanic and latino have faced increased demand to speed up their work putting them at greater risk for serious injury or death. Can you please elaborate on the impact that the increased pressure and even the everyday pressure that they are facing on parents and their children . Thank you for the question and your leadership. We know each other from across the aisle. She was of the American Farm bureau and id been advocating for these issues and throughout the years roll will record. The reality is that agriculture is the dangerous industry and the reality is that her experience in mind is so different and its because of those differences for love to be put in place to protect children like me so that i could have opportunities like hers. Thats what it comes down to so you heard also how so many of these employers and farmers want to do whats right and stick to the law. What we have found over the years both in my own personal experience and that over the years is that is the minimum. I have yet to meet employers that jump above and beyond because we are not talking about her experience and that of her family because it was more than her and her family to keep the operation going. They hire employees and they dont have the same oversight and protection as i mentioned in my testimony they tried to keep me safe and its not because they were exploitive. They cared for me but their hands were tied because of the desperate poverty that kept putting us in danger. Ive yet to hear how anybody will address the lack of ability. Thats what drives their children out there and they dont have somebody. They cant afford to somebody to take care of their kids. They cant afford to put food on the table. They have to bring their kid out there with them. To make sure children are being protected and not just folks like boswell. I want to remind my colleagues that with pursuance to the hearing record and must be submitted in 14 days following the last day of the hearing so by the close of business the material submitted must address the subject matter and only a member of the subcommittee or an invited witness makes the material inclusion in the hearing record with the internet link that you must provide to the committee clerk. Remember in the future that link may not work. The house rules and regulations item for the record should be for the clerk electronically i want to thank the witnesses for their participation. Members may have some additional questions for you and we ask of thewitnesses to please respond pursuant to the committee practice. The question submitted must address the subject matter of the hearing. I want to know recognize the distinguished Ranking Member for a closing statement. For the health and safety of all workers, workers of all ages, workers under 18, workers over 18 its a top priority of the agricultural employees in the federal government. As the industry faces the workforce, congress should be doing everything it can to promote opportunities for young people in Agriculture Committee republicans have serious concerns that the legislation could impact family farming operations and Education Programs like 4h and ffa j for the administrative overreach. It was mentioned that the language in the bill encourages this. I think theres a lot of concerns here. This is not an idle threat. The regulatory proposal that would have harm an opportunity for the agricultural employmentin our family farms. Immigrants want to advance policies, their own work yet another attack on the Rural America. The last thing americans farmers need is more washington knows best policies. Instead of demonizing farmers, the work is vital to creating and sustaining the nations food supply. We should be doing everything we can to support agriculture and young people who choose to pursue careers in this important profession. I would like to think the witnesses again for participating in todays hearing and i will yield back. Thank you. I will now recognize myself for the purpose of making my closing statement. Thank you to the witnesses for your time and testimony. Today we discussed the importance of increasing workplace detention for child farmworkers. Too often exploited and neglected while working in the field. The hours and dangerous work lead to low graduation rates, injuries and the disproportionate number. As the witnesses made clear, this is the direct result of those from key workplace protections that apply to those in other industries. All children should be safe while having the opportunity to achieve their dreams. So we must Work Together to improve for those that work and agricultural jobs. Thank you to my colleagues and to the witnesses. If there is no further business