think he needs to hold steady on it. jacqui: in your view what would be the better role of the government then to try tone courage vaccine hesitant populations to get vaccinated? >> well, i think, you know, locally here in harris county in houston we have seen our local officials getting out there and going to community events, holding vaccination events, really showing that they are getting it themselves and that it's safe and effective way of combating the virus but the mandate doesn't seem to be the answer. especially black and hispanic folks are hesitant of government and they have a deep mistrust of government, so mandating something from government is not going to fly with them. and so i really think that just getting out there and communicating continuing to communicate the message of the need for vaccines and the need for ensure that the population is safe is going to be with the answer is. i don't think mandates are it. jacqui: in your view the mandate does the opposite, it makes them for hesitant? charles: oh, without a doubt. it makes them more hesitant and i think it makes them question