Transcripts For KGO This Week With George Stephanopoulos 20130303

This does no longterm entitlement reform. And when i talk to ceos across the country, they tell me that this is leading them to put projects that would create jobs on hold and think it will hurt their Small Business suppliers dramatically, so this is not a win for anyone. The only win, if you can call it that, this gives is those on the republican side who are willing to let all this harm be inflicted just so they can stand by this principle that there should not be one dime of deficit reduction that should ever come from closing loopholes or deductions. Thats just an unreasonable position. As you know, the Republican Leaders say thats not the only option. They say the administration could cushion the blow of these cuts if they wanted to. Heres Senate Republican leader Mitch Mcconnell just the other day. The president is ready to make it bite as hard as possible, all to send a simple message to the public, you want to control washington spending, america, fine, let me show you how much i can make it hurt. Why not take the kind of flexibility the republicans are offering . Because i think that as youve heard, independent economists say from the chairman of the Federal Reserve ben bernanke to the independent congressional budget office, there is no way that you can move the deck chairs around in a way that will not cost our economy, as cbo projects, 750,000 jobs. When you have those type of harsh spending cuts in such a short, concentrated period of time, its like saying to somebody, you can cut off three of your fingers, but you can have the flexibility to choose which ones you want to cut off. If youre cutting 42 billion from defense, youre going to dramatically hurt operations and maintenance and our military training. If you have to cut as much as is required on the domestic side, you could eliminate head start, the fbi and the National Science foundation, and you still would not get there. Now, you know, if they want to talk about real flexibility that would allow the president to actually reduce the deficit in a way that didnt hurt jobs and, most importantly, to be able to reduce loopholes, Corporate Tax expenditures, tax expenditures for the well off in a way that didnt hurt jobs, that would be one thing, but what theyre saying is the only way that we can do cuts are in very harsh devastating ways that would cost 750,000 jobs and that their flexibility does not include the ability to ask for one dime of revenues that lower the deficit from corporate loopholes even though, george, it was only ten weeks ago that Speaker Boehner said that we could reduce the deficit by up to 1 trillion from exactly this type of tax reform that closes loopholes and reduces tax expenditures. As you know, gene, even the president s allies have accuseds administration of hyping the pain caused by these cuts. Heres new york city mayor michael bloomberg. Theres a lot of posturing, im going to lay off my employees today unless you do something. Im going to were going to close the hospitals down. Were going to take all the prisoners from jail and put them on the streets. Spare me, i live in that world. I mean, come on. Lets get serious here. And at least twice this week the administration got caught exaggerating the impact, the president claimed the capitol janitors will get a pay cut. It was said that was premature at best. Arne duncan couldnt back up a similar claim that he made about teachers getting pink slips. So how do you respond to critics who say the administration is engaging in scare tactics . You know, first of all, those capitol janitors will not get as much overtime. Im sure they think less pay theyre taking home does hurt but i think the real issue is that this is, as the president said, a slow grind. When this sequester goes off, yes, its not going to hurt as much on day one but, again, every independent economist agrees, it is going to cost our economy 750,000 jobs just as our economy has a chance to take off. George, you could bring ceo after ceo on your show who would tell you that this type of uncertainty and dysfunction in washington is forcing them to hold back projects that they would be doing that would be creating jobs. Theyre worried its going to hurt their Small Business suppliers and as and my belief is that as this pain starts to gradually spread to communities affected by military spending, to children who need Mental Health services, to people who care about our border security, i believe that more republican colleagues who are concerned about this harm to their constituents will choose bipartisan compromise on revenue raising tax reform with serious entitlement reform. Theyll choose this bipartisan compromise over what is an ideological position that every single penny of deficit reduction Going Forward must be on the middle class or seniors or our children and that there cant be one penny that comes from closing loopholes or tax expenditures. That is not a position that the public supports. Its not the kind of bipartisan compromise we need to move our country forward. Before you go, i have to ask you about this strange sparring match you had with bob woodward of the Washington Post this week. I guess it began with an email exchange about an article he wrote in the Washington Post saying the president was moving the goalpost on the sequester and i guess you had a heated conversation and in an email you apologized for it and then went on to add this, you say as a friend, i think youll regret staking out that claim. Woodward seemed to take it as a threat. Listen. It makes me very uncomfortable to have the white house telling reporters, youre going to regret doing something that you believe in. I read all the emails. They seem pretty civil on all sides. Do you have any idea what made woodward so uncomfortable, and have you all spoken about it since and cleared this all up . You know, george, ive known bob woodward for 20 years. Weve had a very friendly and respectful relationship. I think virtually everybody who has looked at my email to him and his reply to me thought those emails reflected that degree of respect and politeness and the emails were fundamentally substantive. I was i was arguing a case as to why i believed the president asking for balance is consistent with where things have been for the last several years, so all i can say, george, is that bob woodward is a legend. I hope that him and i can put this behind us and i think, most importantly so you havent talked about it yet . You know, i havent talked to him yet but i hope to. I hope we can put it behind us because i think we both care about the policy issues we were debating and think thats where the focus of our National Debate should be, not on our email exchange. Gene sperling, thanks for your time this morning. Your time. And lets get a Republican Point of view from New Hampshire senator kelly ayotte. Thanks for joining us this morning. Senator, you heard good morning. You heard Gene Sperling say this is not a win for republicans. Do you agree with him on his assessment on how much damage these cuts are going to do . Well, george, i serve on the Armed Services committee. Ive listened to our military commanders for the last year. I also traveled around the country with senators mccain and graham, and so i am really concerned about the impact on our national security. Weve already heard on cuts on training for our active duty troops, also, flight hours for the combat fighter pilots, so, yes, theres some real concern about undermining our national security, but i want to step back for a minute because i actually think that what the woodward exchange with mr. Sperling demonstrates is that both sides are rewriting history here to some extent. You had the president out blaming republicans when the idea came from the white house and now hes trying to write into tax increases into the plan when it wasnt ever in the plan. Republicans were insisting on having some kind of on the republican end republicans were insisting right, there was thats what i say on the republican end, the enforcement mechanicism was one where we left 50 of spending off the table so that defense takes a disproportionate cut which wheres the party of Ronald Reagan on this, so i think its time mr. Sperling talked about this being a choice of increasing taxes, we just increased taxes, the congress did, in january at the president s request. How about alternative spending cuts . In fact, this week i offered a people to do that so why cant both sides Work Together to do this in a more sensible way. What other spending cuts do you think would work to achieve these same kinds of savings . I think there are many. First of all, the house obviously had a proposal they did last year, but there are a whole host of reforms. We left 50 of spending on the table, so i had some ideas on you can continue a pay freeze for federal employees. You can reform federal retirement and congress retirement. You could do things to reform some of the problems that weve had with food stamps that, in fact, are similar to what we passed in the Senate Farm Bill so not a new idea. Theres a whole host of ideas of how we could cut spending in a more responsible way that doesnt undermine our national security, and that seems to be being left out of the discussion on both sides here. You also heard Gene Sperling say he believes the pressure will build on a lot of republicans to come to the table on new revenues and one of your colleagues, senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina said hes open to that. Take a listen. To me this is a bipartisan problem. This is the chance to do the big deal. Im willing to raise revenue. Im willing to raise 600 billion in new revenue if my democratic friends would be willing to reform entitlements and we can fix sequestration together. Why not go for the big deal at this point . You mentioned the president s position earlier. His position always was 2 or 3 in spending cuts for every dollar in revenue. Right now youre going at a rate of 4 in spending cuts for every dollar in new revenue. Are you prepared to sit down and talk about a much bigger deal . Well, george, what the president is now what he pushed recently in the senate this week, the 85 billion small deal with tax increases, thats not going to work. If were going to increase revenue again, its got to go to the debt with real entitlement reform and real tax reform when you actually lower rates, and i thinkg that none of that has been in this discussion, so absolutely i think we need to do a big agreement for the country because we havent dealt with the fundamental drivers of our debt, the entitlement programs and the tax reform has to be done uniformly and lower rates. So but are you willing let me just be clear here. Youre willing if tax reform goes forward and if the president is willing to talk about entitlement reform and medicare and medicaid and other entitlement programs, youre saying youre willing to have an agreement that actually raises revenue, or does it have to be revenue neutral tax reform . Im willing to say if we take the form of lowering rates so we can focus on Economic Growth and then take a portion of that and apply it to the debt with real entitlement reform but it has to go to the debt, im not going to agree to any more tax increases that are going to go to increase more government. I mean here we are. Thats what the latest proposal is from the president. This sequester has to be dealt with within existing spending and alternative cuts and we need real entitlement reform and real tax reform. Thats what we need for the country if were going to drive down our debt and also be focused on Economic Growth. That might be a little bit of an opening that can be seized on later, although it may not happen any time soon, but, senator ayotte, thank you for your time this morning. Thanks, george, appreciate it. Coming up our powerhouse but first Dennis Rodman, no on all the weeks politics but first, Dennis Rodman has spent more time with the worlds most mysterious dictator from north korea. His first interview is right here in 90 seconds. Ntrary korea. His first interview is right here in 90 seconds. Trary korea. His first interview is right here in 90 seconds. Rary korea. His first interview is right here in 90 seconds. Ary korea. His first interview is right here in 90 seconds. Ry korea. His first interview is right here in 90 seconds. Y korea. His first interview is right here in eo c o and we are back now with this weeks weirdest encounter. Top of the news in north korea, the First American to meet kim jongun, not john kerry or even jimmy carter, nope, it was Dennis Rodman, aka the worm. They watched basketball. Kim is a big fan, but that was just the beginning. Some ice skating too and an aquarium visit then a long dinner and lots of drinks with one of the worlds most mysterious and dangerous men. I love him. I love him. The guy is awesome. He was so honest. That about a dictator who presides over prison camps, allows millions to starve and has threatened to destroy the United States. Amazingly, rodman now has more firsthand impressions of kim than any other american. There is nobody at the cia who could tell you more personally about kim jongun than Dennis Rodman, and that in itself is scary. And Dennis Rodman joins us right now. I guess you dont find it scary. No, its not scary. Its amazingly wild, man. You know what, it was such a great experience. Me and my i call him my son, elton king, we went there, man, and it wasnt supposed to be like that. It was just like meet the guy and have a good time. It turned into such an event. I have to ask you, when you said you love him, were you aware of his regimes horrendous human rights record . I didnt look at all that. I understand what hes doing. I dont condone that. I hate the fact that hes doing that, but the fact is that, you know what, thats a human being, though. He let his guard down one day to me, a friend. I didnt talk about that. I understand that. I understand that. You think you have a responsibility to ask him about it so that you dont be perceived as sort of propping up his regime, his cult of personality . When you grow up in that environment, especially when your grandpa and your father now, one thing, the kid is only 28 years old. You called them great leaders. Do you really believe that . What i saw in that country, i saw in that country and i saw people respect him and his family and thats what i mean about that. Arent they forced to . Huh . Arent they forced to . I say no because i think hes because this is a different view because i sat with him for two days. One thing he asked me to give obama something to say and do one thing. He want obama to do one thing, call him. He wants a call from president obama . Thats right. He told me that. He said, if you can, dennis, i dont want to do war. I dont want to do war. He said that to me. Did you say why dont you pick up the phone and call president obama . No, you know, its a different story. Its a different story because guess what, the kid is only 28 years old, 28. Hes not his dad, not his grandpa. Hes 28 years old. So you think hes different. What did he tell you about america, and what did you learn about him . Guess what, the one thing i said to him, i said we talked about if you see the clips or whatever, he loves basketball. And i said obama loves basketball. Lets start there, all right. Start there. If you see the quotes in the papers, he says that. He says that. Both of you guys love basketball so much. So thats one tiny bit of common ground. Did you get any sense from him that he was looking to change the relationship with the United States . One thing i noticed by him, hes very humble. Hes very humble, man. As a kid hes very humble. Hes very hes very strong as a man, hes very strong but guess what, he dont want war. Thats one thing he dont want. He said in the past he would destroy the United States. Well, i just think thats coming from his father. I think as a young man, him he dont want anything what else does he know about the United States and president obama from what you could tell . I can tell by him, he does one thing, he loves he loves power. He loves control because others, you know, dad and stuff like that, but hes just a great guy. Hes just a great guy. If you sit down and talk to him, you know, perception is perceiving how things work. A great guy who puts 200,000 people in prison camps. You know, guess what, its amazing of how we do the same thing here. We have prison camps in the United States. We dont have prison camps, its about politics, right. And the one thing is, he dont want to do that. He dont want to do that, but you know what, its more like it im not a diplomat. I dont want to do that. It sounds like youre apologizing for him. No, im not apologizing for him. I think the fact that hes a good guy to me. Guess what, hes my friend. I dont condone what he does, but as far as a person to person, hes my friend. For what he does, deal with it. Someone who hypothetically is a murderer who is your friend is still a murderer. Well, you know what, seriously, you know what, guess what, guess what, what i did, what i did was history, was history, and guess what, its just like we do over here in america, right . Its amazing that we have president s over here do the same thing, right . Its amazing that bill clinton could do one thing and have sex with his secretary and really get away with it and still be powerful. How can you compare that to prison camps . No, prison camps do one thing. We dont need to do one thing, object that. We dont need to do that but we do one thing, if like as a friend to friend, its a friend to friend. Hes a friend to me and thats it. So youre going to go back. Yes, i am. Im going to go back and do one thing, find out more whats really going on. Next time you go back you should bring this report from Human Rights Watch with you and maybe ask some questions about that, as well. You might learn a lot more and it might press him as well but thank you for coming on this morning and sharing your impressions. Either way, guess what, guess what, guess what, thanks for your report. Okay. Guess what, guess what, dont hit me. Dont hate me. Guess what, dont hate me. I want to get more on this now from shane smith, the cofounder of vice media who traveled with Dennis Rodman to north korea. Shane, i know you had some hope for basketball diplomacy. Youve been to north korea before. Are you concerned at all that this trip may end up propping up kim jongun and giving him a propaganda coup . I dont think so. I mean they its definitely not going to do that for the rest of the world. People know they know our position. Just to be clear i didnt go with dennis on this trip. Ive been twice before. Im not allowed to go anymore. Ive made three documentaries on north korea, and thats why im not allowed to go. What happens within north korea, they can say whatever they want on their state television anyway. Theyre going to say, you know, whatever they want, and theyve done so in the past. I dont think its a propaganda coup internationally. I think its a crazy story, but, you know, within north korea is it a propaganda coup . You know, the new York Philharmonic went there. Was this a propaganda coup, i dont think so. Any hope for a new relationship . Thats one thing i will say is that, look, there was a love of basketball, you know, sort of reminiscent of pingpong diplomacy. There have been, you know, very few instances of dialogue, and dialogue, i believe, is always good. And obviously if kim jongun is interested in america, if hes interested in basketball, if he made sort of, you know, allusions to the fact that he wished that there was closer relations between the two countries, i think thats a good thing. Even if its, you know, political grandstanding, at least that could be the beginning of a dialogue that, you know, hasnt worked well in the past between america and north korea. Shane smith, Dennis Rodman, thank you both very much. Our powerhouse roundtable is next. James carville squares off with the wall street journals paul gigot. Cokie roberts on the Catholic Church in crisis and Matt Dowd Mia love debate the civil war in political ranks. Ch and crisis and m. I. A. Love debates the war in political ranks. As are reporting their best tourism seasons in years. Weve shared what weve learned with governments and across the industry so we can all produce energy more safely. I want you to know, theres another commitment bp takes just as seriously our commitment to america. Bp supports nearly twohundredfifty thousand jobs in communities across the country. We hired three thousand people just last year. Bp invests more in america than in any other country. In fact, over the last five years, no other Energy Company has invested more in the us than bp. Were working to fuel america for generations to come. Today, our commitment to the gulf, and to america, has never been stronger. [ male announcer ] when you wear dentures you may not know it, but your mouth is under attack. Food particles infiltrate and bacteria proliferate. Protect your mouth, with fixodent. The adhesive helps create a food seal defense for a clean mouth and kills bacteria for fresh breath. Fixodent, and forget it. The roundtable is up next, but first Stephen Colberts not so modest proposal for washington dysfunction. To prevent the next crisis, we just need a worse scenario. I say we suspend a monkey above the floor of congress. No, an ebola monkey. Then every senator and congressperson gets smeared with banana meat. If they do not reach a budget deal by the deadline, the doors of congress are locked. The rope is cut, and it is meal time in the monkey house. [ cheers and applause ] revolutionizing an industry can be a tough act to follow, but at xerox weve embraced a new role. Working behind the scenes to provide companies with services. Like helping hr departments manage benefits and pensions for over 11 million employees. Reducing document costs by up to 30 . And processing 421 billion dollars in accounts payables each year. Helping thousands of companies simplify how work gets done. Hows that for an encore . With xerox, youre ready for real business. Hows that for an encore . Ive always had to keep my eye on her. But, i didnt always watch out for myself. With so much noise about health care. I tuned it all out. With unitedhealthcare, i get information that matters. My individual health profile. Not random statistics. They even reward me for addressing my health risks. So im doing fine. But shes still going to give me a heart attack. Were more than 78,000 people looking out for more than 70 million americans. Thats health in numbers. Unitedhealthcare. One love one blood [ cheers and applause ] rosa parks singular act of disobedience launched a movement. With the simplest of gestures, she helped change america and changed the world. This statue speaks for itself and today we speak for a nation committed to remembering and, more importantly, emulating rosa parks. That brings to mind lady liberty herself with a promise of america clear for all to see. A rare bipartisan moment in the capitol this weekend unveiling the rosa parks statue and were going to talk about all the weeks politicians on our roundtable. Joined by cokie roberts, republican mayor of sarasota springs, utah, mia love. Thanks for coming in in morning. Matt dowd from abc. Paul gigot and james carville, democratic strategist, theres too many candidates to name at this point. I can safely say none of you thought you would follow Dennis Rodman on a roundtable. And never seen anybody dressed like in the studio. May be the last time. But lets talk about what happened this week in washington. Cokie, when this sequester, acrosstheboard spending cuts was devised, it was supposed to pack a powerful punch, seemed to be accepted with an air of resignation. And more of a whimper than a bang and i think thats something of a problem for the president , which he indicated in his press conference where he said its not going to be armageddon. Well, up until then it was armageddon, and the administration saying terrible things are going to happen, and children wont be in school and arne duncan, the secretary of education, saying, teachers are getting pink slips, which the Washington Post says is just a straight lie, four pinocchios on the lie test. So, you know, they really oversold it, i think and now were going to have oversold it or premature . Something i dont normally do, give mitt romney and the republicans some credit. They told the truth in the last election. They said if you reelect obama, well have europeanstyle policies in the United States and thats just what were getting. Europestyle austerity, the thing that brought britain to its knees three times, the thing that brought spain and italy both to its knees, we are copying the very policies that are failing. Now, is it armageddon . Macroeconomic advisers at Goldman Sachs say half a point off the gdp. I dont know if thats armageddon but its a lot, 750,000 jobs lost. If youre 1 of those 750,000 people, thats armageddon. Its not good. Were they the same economists who said if you spend 830 billion on the stimulus youll get unemployment down below 6 . Macro at goldman that said that. But how about the point that even, you know, republicans have looked to say what might have been smarter is to lock in longterm Debt Reduction but dont take money out of the economy. Oh, sure, but leave aside the economic argument. Everybody knows most of the spending you have to fix is in the entitlement section. No question. This is not a smart way to do it. On the other hand it at least shows we can cut some spending. Its at least some spending that the president actually has been saying he supports, right . This is part of his 2. 5 trillion in spending cuts. So this is something that i think the president could make it less onerous if he would say ill take the flexibility the republicans are offering him. He could do that, but hes insisting on using this as a club to get them to agree to another tax increase. And he thought it would work. To me this is really not about this is about a leadership problem. This is a huge leadership problem i think on both sides of the aisle, and i think both sides are completely unwilling to tell the American Public the truth. I think the democrats are unwilling to actually tell the American Public that we cannot fix this unless we deal with entitlements in a real substantive way, and republicans unwilling to be truthful to the American Public. Hasnt the president been willing to do that in his negotiations . I think the president speaks loudly and then he says these things and then does anything. Never has a meeting. Shows up, he calls a meeting two hours before the sequester is about to expire. I dont think the president has actually reached out and tried to do this, but i dont think theyve been receptive from the republicans either. Republicans are unwilling to say theres waste in the Defense Budget and we need to make cuts there. Youre going to implement budgets on the ground. I want you to weigh in but also do you sense youll feel this in your town . No, were not going to feel this at all. This is why i advocate for being independent and not being so subjective to federal funding or not being dependent on federal funding. Were going to be absolutely fine. We do not were not our budgets arent based on how much money comes in from the federal government, so as a city were going to be fine. I think youll find most states and most cities that are selfsufficient are going to do just are going to do fine. One of the things i think thats important here, i think this is not about a right left issue because theyre the ones both sighs got us into this mess. This is a showdown between washington and the American People and watching this pingpong game. Thats a really good point. Where i live in the washington suburbs, people will be affected, but the fact is that people are they see these two men going out after each other and basically say, fix it. Just fix it. Stop doing these washington games. Im sorry, but i just saw senator ayotte, i hope im pronouncing the name correct, this is having an adverse affect on the military. A republican senator from New Hampshire. Youre delaying ship maintenance and cutting Training Missions down. Youre doing all of these things and, yes, if you dont do ship maintenance this year and you do it next year, when do you start feeling it . You start feeling it at some point. She wants to change it. Shes saying the same thing senator mccain was saying. Again, we dont half a point of gdp to lose and same people saying said there would be weapons of mass destruction, it would be a cakewalk that housing is going to bring the economy down, that Interest Rates were going up and inflation was around the corner. I think the problem is somebody needs to tell the person public in a broad way there is going to be pain. If we care about the budget, if we care about the fiscal mess either we have to make substantial cuts or we have to raise taxes on the middle class. You cant do it without either one of those. What i would say is this, there is pain out there. The middle class is in pain. Incomes are down. The idea that theres no pain in this country, theres been pain in this country for a long time. The tax increase wont help the economy. We just had two months ago the biggest tax increase in 20 years. This is the problem, the president is insisting that republicans raise taxes. And that is not they cant do that politically and theyre not going to do it. Were going to have a stalemate until he takes it off the table. I think youre right the stalemate will be in place but is the white house correct over time and clearly hasnt happened yet, but over time the pressure will build because these cuts are going to start to kick in. There will be some pressure built up and in certain sections of the economy, certainly where the government has expanded the most, certainly in some parts of the country where defense matters. There will. Theres no question. This is not the most intelligent way to do it but i dont think its armageddon. The president oversold it as cokie suggested, and now hes got a credibility problem that is going to hurt him for the next few months. The credibility problem doesnt stop there. Yes, there is pain. Theres a lot of pain. I see it out there. I mean ive got family members that live in inner cities, and i can tell you right now that this president is doing nothing to eliminate those pains. But you both talk about the credibility problem but cokie roberts, our own polling shows that right now at least the president s Approval Ratings on handling spending, on handling this issue far outpace the republicans. Absolutely. Our polling shows it and so does everybody elses so hes got the strong hand here, and hes obviously using it. The real what was somewhat encouraging in senator ayottes interview was the idea of coming to the grand bargain because that i heard an opening there, as well. Its the only way you can do it. The president did say in his press conference the other day that the big problem in spending was health care. Now we all know that but for him to say it counts. And so if he and he said im willing to take on my own party on these entitlement issues. If thats true, and then the republicans are willing to take on their own party on taxes, there is probably theres just no winners in this. I mean, theres somebody who loses less if you look at the polling. The president loses less but he doesnt win in this. Everybody gets mud on them. The interesting thing to Pay Attention to is the markets which is a telling sign, which is the markets have not changed. They continue to rise. What they basically decided is dysfunction in washington, inability to do anything is now standard and so therefore were going to discount everything in washington. Not only standard but maybe its being done in the wrong way but the amount of deficit reduction that most economists said is about what we should do over the next ten years, about 4 trillion is actually happening. Three years deficit turned gdp best years since world war ii and best three years of Health Care Costs than weve had in the last 40 years. There are things that are happening out there. The last thing that we need right now is some kind of austerity. This economy is nowhere near where it is. Were going to do what they did in britain. James, can we put 2. 4 out of a 4 why did senator ayotte say its hurting the military . Why . Republicans they were unwilling to say the military has waste in it and its unwilling the military should be it should be cut. Maintenance, thats not i want to move on to another issue. Big development on gay marriage. The Supreme Court will hear the case on proposition 8 outlawing gay marriage in california. The president and the administration weighed in. What weve said is that samesex couples are a group, a class that deserves heightened scrutiny, that the Supreme Court needs to ask the state why its doing it, and if the state doesnt have a good reason, it should be struck down. If i were on the court, that would probably be the view that id put forward, but im not a judge. Im the president. Now, the brief didnt go quite that far. The president did not argue that marriage is a federally guaranteed right for gays and lesbians, but, paul gigot, you saw Top Republicans, dozens of Top Republicans weighing in with a friend of the court brief and Corporate America stepping up in a big way, as well, in support of gay marriage. Not elected officials yet, but these are i think what youre seeing is that on gay marriage, this used to be an issue. Up to a year ago the president was against gay marriage and divided democrats and seeing after the results of this last election where young people really move to the democrats substantially in part on some of these cultural issues youll see this issue begin to divide republicans more and i think that depending on what the court does, youll see more republicans instead of saying some did, we need a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage theyll start to say lets have the states decide this. Are you saying perhaps some republicans may want the court to get them off the hook . I dont think they want the court to basically say that gay marriage is a constitutional right. I think they might be happy if the court said, you know what the defense of marriage act signed by bill clinton is unconstitutional because it imposes a federal solution on the states and just let new york do what it wants. How about for you . I think that the federal government has its hands full with the fiscal issues. And so either way, i tend to take it at a different angle at this. I know what i believe in my home and i certainly dont want the federal government defining anything for me. I think that we should just i take the approach that we should leave it to the states. The march of history is already moving and republicans know if they stand in the way of this, this is like civil right, womens rights now at the point this is an amazing thing that happened in a short time period. Used to be if you were talking about social issues like this you were losing as a democrat. Now if youre talking about social issues like this, youre losing as a republican and history is now moving this issue is done. Republicans have to come face to face with the idea that this issue is over. I must say it is mind boggling how fast it moves and Public Opinion really turns very, very quickly on this, and you really have to give credit to very courageous people in the Gay Community who came forward and said, look, youre talking about me. Im your brother, im your friend, im your sister, and it really did change and young people our colleague, last november said it best, george will, the proposition is literally dying off every month. George always says that the young people being gay is about as interesting as being lefthanded. Only one thats dividing republicans right now, you saw this with the sea pac conservative Committee Conference did not invite Chris Christie. One of the Republican Leaders in the country, governor of new jersey. Here was his response. They dont want to invite me, thats their call. Its you know, its their organization. Its their business. And they get to decide who they want to have come or not come. Its not like im lacking for invitations to speak both here and around the country. And hes loving his 74 Approval Rating right now but, james, this is only one manifestation. Youve also got karl roves group on one hand trying to support candidate s who defend them against primary challengers from Tea Party Candidates and youve got the club for growth targeting what they call republicans in name only. Weve lost elections before, democrats have, republicans have before. I think this one is somehow another instances thats particularly hard for the republicans and are mad at each other right now to me in an amusing way, but if i was a republican, almost an unhealthy way and lashing out at blaming back and forth. The club was kind of my idea for a significant story that theyre really going after theyre naming the people theyre going after right now which, of course, will have a Chilling Effect on other republicans who think they may be up. Any way to stop it, paul gigot . I would welcome it. I think we need a big debate. If i were sea pac, i would have invited christie and let him say what he wanted on guns. If you disagreed with him, boo him. We need to have a debate, a pretty raucous debate. I disagree with james. I dont remember it being any meaner than in 1988 and lost the third election in a row. The republicans need to have this out. They need to sort it out and need to debate. Dont blackball any candidates or any republicans, come on in. Lets mix it up. Sea pac to me totally diminishes their credibility when Chris Christie and explanation about why its like an allstar game. He didnt have a good year and invite sarah palin who wasnt competent enough to keep a fox news contract but shes invited to a sea pac meeting. To me they basically they decided the voters dont know what theyre doing. That the voters who like Chris Christie and other candidates like theyre really mixed up and well tell them what the truth is and whenever thats a strategy on either side when youre trying to tell the voters theyre wrong its a bad move. Are you going to stand up for sea pac here . This is probably where the debate comes in a little bit. I am going to say this, sea pac is an independent, you know, theyre their organization. They can go in and ask whoever they want to. Im sure Chris Christie is not hurting for speaking events. I listened to the man. Ive met the man. I think hes a great leader but hes also going to be loyal to new jersey and follow the things that new jersey wants him to follow. And that might not fall in line with what sea pac wants. Expand its reach in the northeast in order to be credible in a national election. I think we need to have a debate. I dont like the fact that republicans are eating each other. If you think about this, democrats tend to stick together on one issue, and we tend to divide based on many different issues. Many different issues. And so we have to have a debate and a healthy debate is good and we have to know were not going to agree on everything. Yeah, but, you know, mia, the republicans for republicans to have lost senate seats in the last election was political malpractice. Everything was in place for them to gain senate seats, and the reason they lost senate seats was because of their candidates and the reason the candidates were a problem is they were too out there for a statewide election. Thats one true in some places, yourrright, in missouri but not true in north dakota and montana. Absolutely. Just bad candidates. Right. Any day that you have more sarah palin and less Chris Christie is a good day for james carville. Im all for it. They had the right to do what they want, but me, im just going to sit back and enjoy it a little. I want to move on. The other big story this week, we all saw it in rome. You have to watch Pope Benedict retire. Cokie, you were there with me, as well. Remarkable pageantry in his final hours but it does now come at a time after this remarkably bold move in retiring where the Catholic Church is going to have to make a lot of Big Decisions Going Forward. And it was striking to me when you and i were talking with Cardinal Wuerl of washington, how little they know of what theyll do next. They know formally theyll go into a meeting and then theyll talk because everything here is new. Brand new. For 600 years. And they also, more than half of them, have never been in a conclave where you elect a pope and theres no frontrunner. You know, with the last election, we all knew Joseph Ratzinger and so did they, but theres nobody like that now, and with the scandals that are there, the first thing they have to do is make absolutely sure in every way that whomever they pick is spotless. Exactly. And they dont know how to do that. They dont know how. I mean what are they going to do, call the head of the knights of columbus . They dont know how to do it. To me its one of the most crucial moments in the churchs history right now if you look at what happened with this huge scandal with pedophiles in the church. Its gone through every diocese and youre stacked with catholics. Im catholic, i was an altar boy. I went to catholic university. All of that. I think were at that moment in time where they have to make a decision, actually similar to the Republican Party in the same exact thing, they could either retrench and become a Minority Institution or they can expand. Youth are leaving the church. Minorities in the developed world are leaving church. Theres no role women dont feel a real role in the church at this time and dominated by mostly older white men. A letter from e. J. Dionne, to say, fanciful kind of proposal too. They should pick a nun for pope. I think they need to go to a church apart as opposed to im a cradle catholic. I pull for the church but i dont deny the problems they have. Im just praying that if the holy spirit ever does intervene that he comes down she. Or she. My daughter will correct me also and we go, wow, we got this guy is really a humble, neat guy that people can look up to and can make some of the necessary changes. Theyre not going to change doctrine but they can certainly change what they emphasize. I think its great actually. You know, that heres a pope that, you know, holds a very big position in the Catholic Church and saying, im unhealthy. I can no longer do this any longer and actually says im going to step down. You know, im going to be really interested in seeing what happens with the conclave. I mean, everything i know i learned from dan brown. Along with speaking of that, i just Read Everything about it. I just think one of the things, it is fascinating now for the first time youre actually hearing some american names being talked about as pope, Cardinal Timothy dolan here in new york, sean omalley from boston but historically theres been a real reluctance to have an american because of the association with the superpower. Right, america is so strong otherwise why have a pope religious leader also an american. Although Timothy Dolan is a great, great leader and very charismatic, those of us who know him would be thrilled, frankly, to see him as pope but i think its unlikely. I think what would be most exciting even to catholics in the western world is to get a pope from the developing world where the church is going. Where the catholics are. Asia. Thats where its most one of the biggest Growth Opportunities for the catholic is in china which persecutes the church, and you have to the next pope in addition to that kind of pastoral role, you have to have somebody who can clean out that bureaucracy. Theyll have to open the windows, undermine thats a huge part of the problem. I think that then its a church you question whether or not its imbued with the holy spirit. If they dont think they have to keep the doors shut and everything in the dark. There are a lot of reports that the pope has turned over the dossier on all the corruption scandals inside the vatican that only the cardinals are going to be able to see that but it certainly sounds like its explosive information. Of course they have problems over there. How explosive it is, the answers probably vary. I would be surprised if its anything else. I think what people want, they want a humble guy, you know, who who can like straighten out, you know, make the vatican not a place of intrigue but a place that people can look up to and this guy from the philippines, what about him . Young man. You know, the idea of the vatican not being a place of intrigue is like saying the Political Party there was some feeling talking to a lot of cardinals that the boldness of Pope Benedicts move in resigning and doing something that hadnt been done in 600 years might inspire them to make a bold move, as well. But they differ on what that is, of course, and, of course, they have different constituencies just as you were talking about in this country. There are different issues facing them, so in africa, the aids crisis has been something that the church has had to deal with enormously. In other parts of the world, in europe its the rise of islam and the defection of young people. I mean all over the world there are different issues, and so each one of these cardinals comes in with a different set of criteria of what the biggest problem is and they all know this. If they go the wrong way theyll become irrelevant and thats one thing they cant take and they have to change. You know, theyre still relevant but they need to be more relevant. Theyre losing their authority as all the things that matthew talked about keep eroding and for the church to regain its authority, we need a pope that the world can look up, not just catholics and i think this is a moment i think in time where if they basically said were going to go back to the church as established as the sermon on the mount and went back to that in dire need of where we are in the world to basically go back to that, what christ did back then they would be a church that would be relevant. One more quick break and more with more roundtable right after this. Catch this week online all week at abcnews. Com on facebook and twitter. One more quick round on the roundtable on the stories that may have been overlooked this week or something to watch for in the next week. Let me start with paul gigot of the wall street journal. This week the Supreme Court rejected a challenge 54 from the left to the foreign wiretap Surveillance Program that the Obama Administration has been pursuing so you have five conservative justices agreeing with the Obama Administration which is implementing the bush policy so it goes to show you the degree to which their antiterror policies are much closer than advertised. A lot of continuity. Id say this but i think the Environmental Impact study on the Keystone Pipeline by the state department is an enormous story and probably means keystone is going to be built and the Environmental Community will be up in arms. Wont have much of an impact, he said. I think thats the big story and now its i got bill talking about it. Hes not going to like it but its going im sure the study will be questioned. But you cant diminish it. Look, if youre a democrat and you believe in science and if this is a science, thats the science. The pipeline will be approved. It seems more likely today than it did last week. Ill say that. Well, of course, ive been out of the country doing popespeak, so im at somewhat of a disadvantage but one thing i noticed last night when i got home is general Michele Johnson has been named head of the air force academy and shes a basketball player there and, of course, a woman, and that i think is very, very important because weve had so many problems with women in the military. I mean for somebody to volunteer to serve our country and then be abused in our own military is so shocking, and to have a woman be in charge of training these young air force members i think is very important. I think thats right. Youre going to be going back for the papal conclave. Do you think theres a pope by easter . Oh, i do. I think they very much want to have a pope by palm sunday which is march 24th. The day to look for, march 19th, st. Josephs day. I just learned as a catholic of so many years that st. Josephs day is right up there with easter and christmas as a feast day that you can eat meat, you can do anything you want during lent, and it would be a day that they could rejoice more than most lenten days. Well certainly put it on our calendar. Mia love. 2011 i remember looking back at my notes and seeing a poll done by gallup where they asked how much of every dollar spent by government is waste, republicans said 52 cents out of every dollar, democrats said 47 cents, which told me at that time an overwhelming amount of americans thought there was a lot of waste and im wondering what it looks like today. Like i said i believe that the sequester is really its painted as a showdown between republicans and democrats, but i really think that its going to shift between washington and the American People, and id love to see im looking for that swell of American People saying, you know what, washington is not doing the job anymore. We are going to actually go in and take this country back. Healing is going to be down on the ground level. Im going to be a lil philosophical in what im picking, its poverty to me but its poverty of the heart and soul that i think is existing today. We have a country now that celebrates the powerful, but we feel powerless. We still have things that fill our lives but dont feel fulfilled. We have more connections, but are less connected and have bigger homes but we try to find a home but in the end what matters about this pope and what matters today how do we find our way to happiness when we have all this stuff going on. Well end on that homily. Well said. Thank you very much and now we honor our fellow americans who serve and sacrifice. This week the pentagon released the name of one marine killed in afghanistan. That is all for us today. Thanks for sharing part of your sunday with us. Check out world news with david muir tonight and ill see you tomorrow on gma. S and see you tomorrow on gma. And see you tomorrow on gma. And see you tomorrow on gma. In the news, another officer involved shooting early in hayward. We will have a live report from the scene. And the delayed rendezvous with the International Space station. A look from our mt. Tam cam. You see partly cloudy conditions. We have rain offshore. I will let you know if that will dampen the rest of your weekend and a stronger storm. Thats all with the sevenday good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining us. Im carolyn tyler. Lets start with a quick first look at the weather with our meteorologist lisa argen. Hi there, carolyn. Hi everyone. From our roof camera is this the roof camera . Yeah. Cloudy skies, 51 degrees and a little breeze out there. The numbers definitely cooler. Live doppler hd has been showing rain offshore but it hasnt really materialized in and around most bay area neighborhoods. We will keep it in the forecast, but overall looking for partly to mostly