Transcripts for KSUT 91.3 FM [Southern Ute Tribal Radio] KSUT 91.3 FM [Southern Ute Tribal Radio] 20191211 110000

Rejects accusations of genocide at the International Court of Justice in the egg tended to genocidal intent on the part of the state that activity investigates prosecute and punish is so distant offices who are accused of wrongdoing addressing the u.n. Climate conference in Madrid the Swedish teenage activist great to 2 bird accuses governments and corporations of using loopholes to avoid action how do you respond to the fact that basically nothing is being done about this without feeling the slightest bit of anger and on the final day of campaigning ahead of tomorrow's general election Britain's prime minister Boris Johnson issues this warning this critical people critically could all be tied to the risk is very real that we could see tomorrow be going into the home although that's all after the news. B.b.c. News Hello I'm Gerri Smit the de facto leader of the Nobel Peace laureate Aung San Suu Kyi has firmly denied accusations of genocide arguing there was no proof of genocidal intent behind the Burma as monitors campaign against range of Muslims in a vigorous speech of the International Court of Justice she said the events in question began when Manama's military was responding to attacks by local armed groups in August 27th teen Masood cheesed said the situation in Myanmar a current state was not easy to fathom she criticized the West African States which brought the case the credit for the Gambia is placed before the court an incomplete and misleading facts of the situation in Rakhine state and Nema yet it is of the I think it's important that the court says the situation on the ground and Rakhine dispassionately and accurate. Political leaders in Britain have begun their last day of campaigning ahead of the general election on Thursday but the conservative prime minister bars Johnson and the Labor opposition leader Jeremy Corbyn will appear at several rallies posters for the conservatives in the lead but say a hung parliament cannot be ruled out has been right both Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbin a promising to radically change the way the country is run for the Tories That means ensuring Britain leave the e.u. At the end of January Boris Johnson said another hung parliament would mean more division delay and deadlock Jeremy Corbyn will tell a rally later that the richest and big business would pay for many of his party's spending promises and the Labor leader will keep the n.h.s. At the center of his pitch in her final speech of the election the Liberal Democrat leader Joe Swinson will save it to stop breaks it voters must stop Boris Johnson getting a majority. The teenage campaign great to tune has accused governments and corporations of failing to tackle climate change and hiding behind clever accounting and p.r. Addressing the time it summit to Madrid said setting distant targets was doing more harm than good she told delegates the predicted temperature rises we're going out do you react to these numbers without feeling at least some level of panic How do you respond to the fact that basically nothing is being done about this without feeling the slightest bit of anger. And how do you communicate this without sounding alarmist I would really like to know as many as 20000 people in Sydney have taken part in a climate change protest as far as continue to threaten the city Thanks Mark from the farms clouded the citizens called on the Australian Government to actively address the causes of global warming which scientists say is partly responsible for the FAAs Phoebe seen needs. Shares in the oil companies Saudi Aramco rose the maximum permitted 10 percent on their 1st day of trading on the Riyadh stock market one and a half percent of the shares in the state's own giant business were sold to private investors as part of a strategy to diversify the economy overseen by the country's crown Prince Mohammed bin Salamone our economics correspondent Andrew Walker reports Saudi Aramco the world's biggest business in the dominant force in the national economy has made a strong start to its life on the stock market the rise in its share price on the 1st day was the maximum permitted under the Riyadh exchanges rules that said the selling of shares in the company has been a difficult process at times Prince Mohammed bin Salomon had hoped that selling a small stake in the company would raise more than it did the funds are intended to support his vision for making the Saudi economy less dependent on selling oil the Israeli parliament has given its initial approval to a bill that would lead to a 3rd general election in a year the bill was presented ahead of a deadline tonight for any political leader to present a new coalition that could form a government but with a long time Israeli leader Benjamin Netanyahu and his main rival Benny Gantz have failed in their previous attempts Germany's government says it will help compensate German customers affected by the collapse of this year of the British travel company Thomas Cook It says it will pay any shortfall that isn't covered by claims against the company's insurer or other parties the insurer Zurich says is liabilities limited to $120000000.00 in the case your forces in Rwanda have removed value added tax from Senator ipad to make them more affordable they currently cost about $0.10 each the removal of the 80 will reduce the price by nearly 20 percent women's rights activists say Senator pads need to be even cheaper . B.b.c. News Hello you're listening to the newsroom from the b.b.c. World Service with me somebody there she's a woman the world used to see as a symbol of peace and human rights but Myanmar's de facto leader Aung San Suu Kyi was today defending accusations that her country's army carried out genocide against Muslims 2 years ago thousands of Rohingya were killed and 3 quarters of a 1000000 fled the violence and state to neighboring Bangladesh speaking at the International Court of Justice in The Hague Ms Suchi said the Burmese military had been forced to respond to attacks by local armed groups she described the case which was brought to the court by the Gambia as misleading tended to genocidal intent on the part of the state that actively investigate prosecute and punish is so distant offices who are accused of wrongdoing although the focus is on members of the military I can assure you that appropriate action would also be taken against civilian offenders in line it's due process there will be no tolerance on human rights law additions in the Rakhine or elsewhere in them but Joining me now from The Hague is our correspondent Anna Holligan For more on this and we heard her there a very robust defense What was she basing it on uncensored she this was the moment this icon of human rights stood up in course and decided how she will go down in history and she chose to be a spokesperson for the Army and in some respects rather than speak out on behalf of what the u.n. Has described as an oppressed minority at risk of genocide and so she it Star says by explaining the definition of genocide and then says actually what happened to me Amar was something else it was an internal armed conflict that Starr said back in 2016 when a group of Ranger fighters. Is attacked some army posts and police officers were killed she said then there were these clearance operations which the phrase has been misunderstood internationally and is a legitimate process which simply means the military clears an area of insurgents or terrorists but she did concede and this was interesting that there is a possibility that some individual soldiers disregarded international law or they weren't careful enough to differentiate between civilians and militants and the reason why she argued or how she could argue that genocidal intense isn't the automatic hypothesis is because she's kind of separating the army from these individuals and she her argument is if there was new States policy to ethnically cleanse an area then there can be no genocidal intent so that's essentially is the defense. For the situation. Absolutely in terms of moral authority. In terms of the evidence presented in court by the Gambia yesterday absolutely no reference to the witness testimony. Said they saw a firing squad separates men and children. Lined the men up and execute them and those who aren't killed were murdered with long knives women who were pregnant stomped on their rapes 8 times babies bodies thrown into burning buildings no reference to tools so that what she did say in the end was in response to the request for the judges here inside the UN's highest courts issue emergency measures to stop any further acts of genocide or any destruction of evidence of genocide asked the. Judges not to intervene to refrain from intervening in a way that could ask or face the situation in Rakhine state and Holligan in The Hague thank you to Spain now where the Swedish teenage climate activists Great to to bear has told the cop $25.00 climate conference about bridge that global leaders will stop seeking loopholes to get out of their responsibilities to cut greenhouse gas emissions How do you respond to the fact that basically nothing is being done about this without feeling the slightest bit of anger. Without seeing the full picture we will not solve this crisis. Finding helicity solutions is what the cup should be all about but instead it seems to have turned into some kind of opportunity for countries to negotiate loopholes and to avoid it raising their ambitions Well let's get more on this now with our environment correspondent who's at the conference of Madrid met a very critical speech as expected from greater to what else did she have to say. I mean here she did a long quite a long speech for her in some respects and quite. A level of detail on the science that was quite impressive in many ways she went at the start to say this wasn't going to be about sound bites she wasn't going to say things like our house is on fire like she has said in the past she wanted to give people some pause for thought and to look at what the real causes of this was and she you know best of the politicians if you like the political leaders and the entire compresses saying that essentially all their efforts to date where as you heard in the tape they're about finding loopholes about finding ways out of it it was all about clever p.r. The people she hated the most in some respects or dislike the most wasn't the people who weren't taking action but the people were passing off their efforts as action would cover accounting and creation p.r. So she was quite. Timing in that respect got a lot of applause from the audience on those points so she got a very positive reaction there. I was saying that she got a very a positive reaction from an audience that was very favorable to her it was a big issue speaking to Terry Hall all delegates were invited but the most of the people there I think were probably press or or people from environmental groups many of the delegates weren't there I managed to sit in the Guatemalan delegate seat myself such was the absence of actual negotiations so I think she was preaching to the converted in many ways I went on very well with that was about how much influence it will have on the talks we're not too sure yet because that's the big thing is that it's getting those very people she was referring to to actually make those changes I think there's a great deal of frustration here as well amongst developing countries particularly that there are a lot of people are making very strong speeches but the actions that they're seeing the negotiation position that are being taken don't tally with those strong positions and I think there's a growing level of frustration amongst many people here that big countries and the commissioners in particular not just big countries big initiatives are doing their best to stymie any progress in these particular conference in Madrid thank you the recovery of 8 people missing presumed dead following Monday is the kind of corruption on wide arland in New Zealand has been hampered by another increase of volcanic tremors 6 people are now known to have died and 29 remain in hospitals across the country our correspondent is that like a tiny harbor of the nearest port to the island New Zealand's director for civil defense has said that while recovering the bodies from Thailand is still top priority the science tells us that it's still too risky to go there's been increased volcanic activity on the island and you could see thicker plumes of smoke in that area over the volcano in the distance we also heard from vulcanologists who said that there is now a higher risk of an eruption within the next 24 hours. Also acknowledged the need for families for those bodies to be recovered but just said it's still too dangerous for rescuers to go and we also know that the post-mortem process has started and identifying those who have been confirmed dead we also heard from senior doctor who said that the burns are currently being treated in hospitals across the country have been complicated by the fact that victims were exposed to chemicals and after the eruption he said that burns units need extra skin grafts he also said that they need one point. Or centimeters of extra. Replacements and that's being ordered in from abroad we also know that an Australian citizen is now being transferred back to Sydney for treatment and that families of victims have started arriving in New Zealand but really at this point all eyes are on that island and the possibility of a recovery mission that's become too complicated and possibly too dangerous. The news around the b.b.c. World Service Still to come. For the 1st international cricket match there in a decade 1st headlines may. Lead to the Nobel Peace laureate. Of genocide the International Court of Justice addressing the un climate conference the teenage activist going to accuse governments and corporations of using loopholes to avoid action. British political leaders are appealing to undecided voters on the last day of the general election campaign yes the prime minister Boris Johnson campaigning this morning in northern England was asked about the latest opinion poll which suggests the narrowing of his Conservative Party's lead this could not be more critical he could not be tighter I just say to everybody the risk is very real that we could see tomorrow be going into it and. That's pretty. Paralysis for this country to say nothing of the economic a disastrous policies. Well John McDonnell the labor opposition's finance spokesman gave this response to the b.b.c. Look at the polling with regard to trustworthiness I think people trust generally cold and they certainly can't trust Forrest Johnson on that's been exposed in this overall campaign politics and the labor isn't just about one individual it's about whole range of ideas and addressing those ideas about what people are confronting in their daily lives and joined in the studio by who better than our deluded correspondent Rob Watson for more of this Rob. Very last hours of campaigning what are the parties focusing on chanting the 1st thing say Emilio's that despite the billing of this election as being the most important one of the most since 945 Britain's inside place in the world and what's been striking as by and how remarkably underwhelming and unavenged fallen I'd almost say is that of tedious spin and that the parties haven't really got to the really big issues to grips with them facing the country but all of that said you wouldn't be surprised if the policies of comebacks that basic messages with the conservatives it's got Brecht's done without actually saying very much what that really means beyond leaving the e.u. In January they opposition Labor Party's made the case for most of socialist Britain the more incidents in the States and of course the smaller Liberal Democrat politicians and we must stop it and this is that's sort of been it really sorry is there a sense then that turnout will be affected by this kind of as you say underwhelming feeling. I'm not sure that well I mean the stakes are high and I guess we'll just have to wait and see tomorrow I think the I mean I think the really key things to look out for is the way in which Praxedis played out not in the sense that people might think of you know kind of really interesting to Bates about it but the way in which the ponces have struggled with the polarized country in other words I think the big question is will the leave those mainly go behind the conservatives which will be a great help to Mr Johnson while the remain votes as most of the fragmented Scots of amongst all the other ponces Well here we go what are we likely to see on Friday board Well all this points I can only tell you what the opinion polls suggest and the opinion polls suggest that we're looking at a small majority for Boris Johnson the conservatives but here's the thing the margin of error is such all these opinion polls that it could either pay a much larger majority for Mr Johnson only majority it's all Ok Well we'll stay doing that Rob Watson thank you it's a big day for cricket mad Pakistan the national team. Has been playing its 1st match of the home in 10 years international squads stop visiting Pakistan after an attack on a bus carrying the team from Sri Lanka the Sri Lankans on the opponents in today's match as a good their core money our correspondent in Pakistan has been watching the match for us and he joins us now as the conductor presumably a lot of excitement at the return of international cricket Yes that's right and quite an interesting start to to this match as well fairly even handed Syrian Cup batting 1st they've made around $200.00 runs for on 5 wickets but as you say this is much more than just. A single game I was speaking to them the younger fans who are attending the match today and they were telling me how how they've never in their entire lives been able to see international cricket played I mean Pakistan despite really wanting to and that's because after the attack on the Sri Lankan team that you mentioned in 2009 Pakistan began playing down home games in the United Arab Emirates but over the past few years international cricket has gradually been returning with some one day matches these 5 day Test matches which which is what started today is what many cricket fans considered a purist form of the game so it's a big deal for supporters here and there's a lot of appreciation for for the same young can team to given that they were the ones who were attacked 10 years ago in and the hope is amongst many Pakistanis that other international teams from the West Australia England will eventually feel confident enough to come and play in Pakistan too it's that feeling safer there now . Certainly look I mean if we compare this situation by his son now to it to a decade ago the number of attacks is significantly dropped before you know a decade ago Pakistan would see frequent attacks in major cities that's really not the case anymore the army has been very successful in defeating the militant groups and there's a desire on the part of the government to open the country up again to to more international support to tourists and of course to foreign investment and what was the result today. So much is still going on as a series on a batting they've made around $200.00 runs they've lost 5 wickets and this is a test might so it will go on for up to 5 days this is the 1st one is taking place in Rupp Indy The 2nd one will be taking place later this month in Karachi seconder think it's a conductor money in Pakistan and the jury is here with some other stories from our news desk they endian Parliament's other houses debating a controversial bill that would fast track citizenship claims for refugees from 3 neighboring countries but not if the Muslim spread takes reports from Delhi It will make it easier for minorities fleeing Muslim majority countries like Afghanistan Bangladesh and Pakistan to become Indians opposition parties say the bill is part of an agenda by India's governing Hindu Nationalist Party b j p to marginalize Muslims the government says the bill does not discriminate tree and that it's meant to help minorities fleeing persecution in neighboring Islamic countries there's been a rise in the number of journalists who are imprisoned across the world with at least 250 currently detained the figures from the New York based Committee to Protect Journalists showed that the largest number of detainees in China closely followed by Turkey the committee also highlights a rise in the joinings of writers in Saudi Arabia and Egypt many of the imprisoned journalists are accused of producing false news and face shows of producing anti state propaganda. And Vilnius a poet in Lithuania is displaying a unique Christmas tree with knives scissors lighters and blades replacing the usual bow balls tensile and lights the i Pod or thirty's say they want to deliver a visual message to passengers which they'll remember all of the decorations were confiscated from passengers during screening and a burned from being taken on board planes Thanks Jerry the people. Bogan Ville an island group in the South Pacific had voted overwhelmingly to break away from New Guinea voters had 2 options more autonomy or full independence I don't most 98 percent were in favor of independence although the result is non-binding so how surprising is this result I asked Radio New Zealand Pacific Reporter Johnny blades it was expected Yeah I mean everyone was talking about a strong majority but this is you know this is really in Fedak isn't it it's bordering on 98 busines and you know what happens next then well there's a period of negotiations between the pop when you get a national government and the autonomous bugaboo government these 2 governments going to be consulting an undefined period of time because with the result for it to come into effect it has to be ratified by a cop when you get a national problem and and there's no guarantee that they would go that with such an emphatic you know majority is $97.00 to scenes you know it's incumbent on them to read a fight but it's going to take probably years or consultations and in the pollen to look at it is quite a lot of uncertainty about what really does come next so how significant a part of the Papa New Guinea economic output is Bogan Ville and will that be a consideration Well it's a consideration but Bill is not as much of everything you know in all the p. And g. State as it used to that you know used to be the case you know with the penguin a copper mine this huge mine run by a. Subset jury grievances around which spot the Civil War and garden will she is a guy however the mine still does have considerable reserves lift in it and it's agriculturally pretty resourceful to bargain. But there's a lot of resistance to living because the p.g. Politicians and leaders they don't want a president sit for other parts of the country to look to break away because there are other similar Island provinces which even bigger inland missed and burning will which also I'm not one that that's the war Johnny blades the Polish band trip a trip from good Danske are currently in the middle of a European tour they rail against right wing hate speech populism and about the 2nd World War and the Holocaust very much relevant in Poland at the moment but are these really themes that rock music can and should address Pall Malls went to meet drivethrough by the start of their u.k. Tour in the southern English city of Brighton. It's not exactly a catchy chewed but then the Polish but in truth the truth never really set out to produce smash hits this track called remained as the chorus line it did not take place the sarcastic reference to the subjects of Holocaust denial. Yet Koskie guitarist rough. Sobeys or their music is very much a product of Poland and its turbulent history. My grandfather was a prisoner of concentration camps his sister was a prisoner of should have concentration camp so of course in a very national are going to go away I started to write to find my perspective of this stuff. And. The song never forget continues that theme of history and how we perceive it today and. This touches all sorts of Roar nerves in Poland the past few years has seen a bitter debate about whether the Polish people might share some responsibility for the Holocaust the current Polish government has furiously defended the country's wartime record it has made it illegal to say that any Holocaust deaths can be blamed on Poland but. Yet Koskie a better approach is to talk about they said other controversial subjects we are still working on these demons from the past the demons of their fascist communism. So there's no just a few minutes till trip a true pickup on stage which runs for the 2 hours members of the audience what the band are singing about I think the Polish Badlands is very bold and very daring this is still fresh history for August I think everyone's supposed to know. When the. Particularly well with you and Ian said Brighton was the apocalyptic track wasteland. There is a long and fine tradition of bleak Polish music from Chopin's Tristan right through to the late 20th century superstar classical composer Henry Gorecki the troupe the troupe is guitarist rough. Seem to be continuing that rather gloomy tradition we will be facing some major political issues because the country sir close not and also the climate changes which will lead to refugee issue in $510.00 maybe a few years do you think you might be singing songs about these problems in 5 or 10 years' time if there will be a big issue we will be singing about it in. Its . Pall Malls reporting a reminder of our main news while we will while we've been on air the French prime minister has been giving details of the government's proposed reforms to the pension system which have provoked nearly a week of strikes across the country and another main news this hour Myanmar's de facto leader the Nobel Peace laureate Aung San Suu Kyi has rejected accusations of genocide at the International Court of Justice that's all from us Ability to the newsroom from the b.b.c. World Service with me let me just jump in there thanks for joining us. Distribution of the b.b.c. World Service from the Us supported by Noam offering a personalized weight loss program that uses psychology and small goals to help lose weight and keep it off for good learn more at noon and o.o.m. Dot com and Cronos providing solutions for the modern workforce and the people who support them learn more at Kronos dot com slash our swagger. The British intelligence agency g c h Q Has been listening into communications for 100 years I'm golden corral and I've been travelling to some of g.c. H.q. Secret bases from the south coast of the u.k. To the heart of Cold War Berlin to find out how it's had to adapt to the modern world join me Gordon Corera for the 2nd episode of The Secret History of g c h Q Here on the b.b.c. World Service after the news. B.b.c. News for Jerry Smit. De facto leader and son Suchi has defended her country against charges of genocide the International Court of Justice the case concerns the military operation against range of Muslims in 2017 in opening remarks ons and Suci called The Case Against Me Amal incomplete and incorrect she said the events in question began when its military was responding to attacks by local armed groups but acknowledged that mammals defense forces may have used disproportionate force. Is the last day of campaigning in Britain ahead of a general election on Thursday but the conservative prime minister bars Johnson and the Labor Opposition Leader Jeremy Coburn are traveling the country opinion polls put the conservatives in the lead the pollsters say a hung parliament cannot be ruled out. The teenage campaign grated tune bad has accused governments and corporations of failing to tackle climate change and hiding behind clever accounting and p.r. At the climate summit to Madrid in his tune there criticised constant attempts to find loopholes to circumvent emissions targets thousands of people have taken part in a climate change protest in Sydney calling on the Australian Government to address the causes of global warming the city is being threatened by wildfires which have been partially attributed to the changing climate. The giant state's own Saudi oil producer Remco has made his debut on the Riyadh stock market we shares rising 10 percent above their opening price the maximum permitted under the exchanges rules thousands of people have taken to the streets of the Algerian capital to protest against tomorrow's presidential election Demonstrators say the election is another ploy by the elite to hold on to power and the Israeli parliament has given its initial approval to those that could lead to a 3rd general election in a year and that's the baby's a news. I'm golden corral and welcome to the 2nd episode of The Secret History of g c h Q On the b.b.c. World Service. I'm on the beach in full her knowing full well that the opposite ends of the country from Scarborough in the Northeast where I was last time it's pretty quiet here late in the day few people heading off just one man painting a picture of the cove but while this place is remote it's not far from Land's End It also has a secret history that's because for more than a century it's been a hub for global communications and that's also made it a hub for spying. Just above the beach in this western tip of England which jumps out into the Atlantic Ocean is the Telegraph Museum this is where Telegraph cables 1st carry communications across the Atlantic and then around the world John packet shows me round the network had expanded by India to Australia New Zealand Shanghai Singapore Hong Kong 100 years ago when it was founded Government Communications Headquarters or g c h Q Was tapping into the cables carrying messages. That were heading into tunnels that the original version dating from the early ninety's. In this building here. Could have put this whole network. We might not use the telegraph anymore but cables now fiber optic ones carrying data still land here there is a heart just before all the steps that go down a little sand of the left which is where all the cables come out of the beach and up into the UK. Very good. Last time on The Secret History of g c h Q We looked at the 1st 50 years of the spy agency this time we're going from the Cold War into today's digital age looking at how g c h Q It's had to keep up with changes in communication and how it's been forced into the open in a way it would never have expected partly thanks to what it gets up to with tables here in Coom or. Rather it is there it's just a. First stop on our journey is just up the Cornish coast. Which means you can see the difference should be just that. In the late 1960 s. Satellites were the latest technology for carrying messages and that made g c h Q building a base to carry out secret work a base which is hard to miss. Here in front of me is this amazing sight of satellite dishes pointed up to space and then 2 layers of barbed wire fades c.c.t.v. Cameras pointed in different directions and a sign saying welcome to g c h Q With the 1st broadcast is to be allowed into this site. But as we approach the gate we have to show id to a small camera at head height. So you see that we did a little move on the camera which I think means we're going to go to the camera which it was like an old of behave. But nothing. But if you want to be able to then. Once we're inside hard hats go on and we get a tour of the satellite dishes called antenna look and you can see the sea. Is a windy day out on the sea. Just before we came out with. Clem who looks after all of the c.h. Q.'s antenna around the world tells me the dishes all have names even if they do sound like a cocktail is and then it's actually collusion brings. Into the nothing between us and the structure of the beauties of incomes across the region in Youngstown and it's going to go so much within 3 to villages easily and the bases here in a corner of Cornwall because Joe Griffey matches provides a perfect place to look upwards for what's known as comsat short for communications satellites so we have to find a spot which is radio silent so as little metal in the ground as possible interference around the area and as far south as possible so this is an ideal place and from our point of view we can actually see 2 oceans and here is where we got the Atlantic over to the west coast and comes back to if you can actually see a trough. To judge I guess I don't quite understand how you can see the education here but that to do with my lack of geography just just means you need. Notion from here. So next we're taken into a raid this looks like a giant golf pull the don't use it designed to protect the antenna inside from the weather and sometimes from people working out what exactly it's pointing at so this is if you go. In there. Like that. The theory is that it was a bit strange oh oh yeah he's got a big pile of money oh. Wow I mean it's just a. Job with well with something like a moment in the middle of it now across the site to 29 and 10 are at different shapes and sizes rather than the classic dishes like it all with 12 I mean there was that light ray guns light laser guns and that's probably not a technical term problem. Fisher actually feet of feet on 2nd it looked like lazy guards. That kind of of the Day Age and they're collecting on each satellite they are correct in from the separate sets ours is similar to your sky Ok is enough said Fred they've. Only one moving part of the antenna You won't believe because we're talking 2000 to the degree. Of movement in the time the dishes are moving imperceptibly slowly each tracking a satellite up in space to suck in the communications they're beaming to earth g c h Q is not off to your sky t.v. Signal but more likely the data from a military or government satellite another country has sent to orbit the earth. Going to. Dangerous Larry down. So back down on Earth What's it like to work here but you have some staff who will take the opportunity to go surfing in the morning before coming in. Inside the main building I sat down with Neal the current head of g c h Q Butte and Brenda reform ahead who says the way the site looks has barely changed over half a century look at the place and the dishes and everything is very much as it was it hasn't changed that much but from the Inside the way things work has changed a lot in the past you could have described our work and it's almost a linear process from collecting information processing information possibly translating information and then producing intelligence Nowadays it's much more collaborative process. I don't know how much you can talk about this but you know you're picking up satellite signals here that's what we intended to doing this is a satellite collection station is that how you describe it living that's a very difficult thing to disguise it's a very odd comic view on the North Korean War coastline. Of the Congo into any detail about specific targets or war interest and that's still not still matters because I thought in the Internet age it it matters less doesn't know you'd be incredibly surprised that you know there is still a healthy growth in the satellite communication industry one of the really big challenges for us. Is not only the growth and the pace at which telecommunications industries are evolving but old ones don't die off either and all the other types of collection which take place in. One accessory I think. That question will say well this is a difficult question I think we'll pass on that Ok an awkward silence later we'll come back to why this might be a tricky subject. Bude was built in the middle of the Cold War and during that conflict g.c. H.q. Is not just operating bases in the u.k. But also on the front lines. This is David Spade 200 feet above the Berlin Wall on helicopter patrol with the British Army Air Corps in this outpost of the West 120 miles inside is Germany 20 miles of walls but the city leaving the German capital Berlin was a unique spot for spies Western allies around half the city even though it was surrounded by Soviet controlled East Germany that offered opportunities. I'm up on a hilltop in Berlin approaching what used to be a secret g c h Q spy station it's a place called 24th but literally the devil's mountain Well that was known by those who work here is t.v. But it's an amazing site now because it's so much clicks with tickets derelict the huge white pool. Which sits on the hilltop The campus is now falling apart at places and there's graffiti everywhere up on the right. Pieces of art along the buildings pictures is just an amazing array of local people there have done with what used to be a spy base and I'm here with Tony. J.c.h. Q.c. Historian who as a younger intelligence officer worked here in Berlin tell you what's it like coming back here off to say many years and seeing this base in the state now it's really really strange. To me that remember is just how exciting it was to. Do signals intelligence here in Berlin and what was the role of the base this place of choice this was the one site where we could collect the most technologically advanced communications that the Soviet Union deployed on the recent it was necessary to collect them here was that the forces whose signals were being incepted were the very forces that were going to invade to bust if the 3rd World will happen. To see that there's some abandoned vehicles which are being spray painted in an extraordinary colors that some keep out songs psychedelic psychedelic Let's Keep Out signs you know get those that G.C.'s Q Yeah you know yeah. But some of the better here. If karma for. Probably nothing could I take the breaking go. It will be easier to break you know than it would have been during the Cold War. It was in the film the t.v. So it was appropriately guarded. And Berlin was ready to follow I mean this place was was almost always it was imbedded within basically the Soviet Block was and it was like an island inside East Germany East Germany was the hope just 5 different. From here you could intercept pretty well all of the communications that were broadcast so Bellamy was aspiring capital not just in the John Le carré world alleyways but also in the technological world of these kind of huge white radio waves above the city exactly separate from the activities the people m I 6 occurring out you have this infrastructure unglue America site. And together we would just make sure that we fully understood exactly what the Soviets were doing. School policy or every expression. Isn't it fantastic that this isn't the front line anymore. The whole threat of a 3rd world war has gone away. And you were here running to the end of the 21 even is that as the the war was coming down just before that I left just before I was here for September. $1009.00 which point of course nobody had any concept. No one had any idea it was the end coming it was a tremendous surprise. Here to take point Jodi another gaping holes in the wall a great human tide is very I was. In 1990 far from where I am now the Berlin Wall was breached and then fell the big. Getting of the end of the Cold War But at that same time there was another development taking place much less noticed at the time that same year a British scientist him Berners Lee came up with the idea for the World Wide Web a new digital revolution was just beginning. The 1990 s. Were an unsettling period for g c h Q The old adversary was gone and there was a new digital world in which the amount of communications was growing exponentially and becoming harder to intercept there were questions about what g.c. H.q. Should be doing and even whether it should survive that was until 2001. With an astonishing series of events and general was being treated the United States countless numbers of the September the 11th 2001 attacks changed the world but the g c h Q Here in Cheltenham it was the July 7th 2005 attacks 100 miles away in London which really changed the way it operated and something though that was a sad lives in a very very rich history. That day in La But then number 2 is g c h Q And later its director raced back from London and through the security gates behind me into the building. I remember thinking that when I walk into that open plan environment people just all looking for help that's Lee Kuan g c h Q Had a new mission finding those planning terrorist attacks and sometimes as with July 7th those people were hidden among the rest of the population communicating over a technology that all of us use this would require changing the way spies gathered intelligence the point about counterterrorism as well where were our target where our intelligence on during that period and they were on the internet it's a very different task isn't it sifting through the Internet looking for terrorist communications from watching a specific salvia to other form of communication or military talk it's different it's not you get yes it's different in some ways in other ways is the same isn't it it's about that relentless patient collection of the normality and then looking for those anomalies looking for the things that look at little bit different the challenges in it though that terrorists hide amongst ordinary people and so by definition you're you're having to collect a large amount of in of information from the Internet which we will ye use and then look for what you're after within the past different is not yes and so that discrimination that differentiation and I think it is all about surgical precision precisely because you're seeking to limit the intrusion. But there's a real issue of tempo so it's not a question of sort of sitting there on this enormous data lake of innocence and communications and thing I wonder where I look now you're using your analysts it's you're using your brains you look you're looking for the futile leads you've got from m I 6 of them are 5 from the police just to kind of say hang on this person those up and then they've done this and they've traveled then they've communicated here or they're raising funding here will there's a radicalization going on here and that is absolutely critical I mean that it was actually something that we learned during the military support mission in Iraq and Afghanistan when it was put to me you know pretty forcefully above very special forces come on those the edited highlights of the event a sort of a match of the day up where the terrorists were ready that day with the previous day didn't really work because they'd read a lot something that they could use it was a different model of intelligence gathering bulk collection is sometimes what it what it's called Do you feel though that enough thought was given to whether that should be explained to the public whether it could be because it sometimes feel like the Bletchley culture of secrecy persisted into quite a different world so so. Sunny I thought What's with being pretty open from you know my peers has the right to talk about what we did and how we did it it's all sorts of groups and so on and so forth but you know once there's a story out there and you lost control of the narrative you've lost control of the narrative because then state and came of them Snowden came along and I think you know for a period you know that felt you know a very hostile environment. When I was and Snowden I'm 29 years old I worked for Booz Allen Hamilton as an infrastructure analyst for n.s.a. And Hawaii I've been a systems engineer systems administrator Edward Snowden downloaded thousands of secret documents about both America's n.s.a. And its close ally Britain's g c h Q And then. Handed them over to journalists he said he was outraged at the extent of surveillance of ordinary people without their knowledge he declined to be interviewed for this program. One of the things known exposed was the way the u.s. And u.k. To have global Internet traffic and to understand where and how they did that we need to go back to Cornwall. We're just going up to the gates now of a gray modern structure which is just off the road not far from the coast it's hidden by trees and there's no sign of what it is just something saying c.c.t.v. In operation on some large green Gates what we think they see as though is the cable landing point the place where the fiber optic cables surface Snowden revealed that she had installed machines which could copy and then sift through Internet traffic places like this this may have been the kind of activity the former and current heads of the g.c. H.q. Stationed at Butte a so reluctant to talk about I want to think it's interesting to me is Cornwall has got an interesting history as well because it was where the telegraph cables landed you know fiber optic cables and today still in Cornwall is that part of you to Mission. Not I can't comment on that coming nor will former g c h Q Director in Lebanon go into details of classified programs but he maintains that Snowden caused real harm it's hard for me to say that good came out of it given you know the loss of intelligence sources and methods the loss of visibility through of targets not just terrorism has been targets around the world you know in the intervening period so I think there was incredible damage to our national security capabilities to the extent that other countries including you know significant potential adverse trees were able to. View the blueprints of how we did our work there are many though who believe Snowden helped create a more informed public debate about the risks of surveillance both states and companies are seeking to exploit the ever growing amounts of data we leave in our wake g c h Q says it's surgical but how much intrusion should we be comfortable with and for what purpose in Berlin Constantine Von not some member of Parliament sat on a committee investigating Snowden's revelations he believes countries need to grapple with the risks posed by spying in a digital world on the copper cable in the past you could listen to telephone calls between a and b. If I tap fiber cable I see everything someone every article reads every contact he makes every photo he looks at I can see how far he reads an article what he googles everything the process that through the Snowden revelations that we have to understand. Those instruments something very different from the things in the past and we need a totally different framework for it because if it falls in the wrong hands you can end up in very nasty stuff. Searching turns up that unfortunately we tend to there's nothing we can do we thought all presidents of the 4 o'clock in the morning a call came from the office where we have a cyber attack and we had to reinstall on its entire And then a cyber attack and it was canceled so I have a very simple message for Russia we know what you are doing and you will not succeed. In today's interconnected world are vulnerable billeted to hackers and foreign spies is growing the Internet use more than just a communications tool it underpins our daily life and that's changed g c h Q It's always had a defensive role in protecting government communications from being intercepted and in October 26th seen it created a National Cybersecurity Center to protect the public and companies the job of balancing the need to collect intelligence whilst also protecting data lies with the man now at the top of g c h Q. I'm germy threating and current director of my sat here in our headquarters building and I'm actually inside one of our board rooms we're moving into a world in which not just communications but all forms of technology and it be more complex they're going to be more ubiquitous we're going have senses everywhere Internet connected devices do you see that as a kind of challenge or is an opportunity does it make you nervous about that world I mean it's got implications for intelligence gathering but also for previous see what the state can do well a utopian always on society with a sense is everywhere completely a mediated I think is a nightmare for the world and certainly is not the environment that you find it may or intelligence agency once into and encouraging that sort of unfettered way and that she said that she said really interesting questions notwithstanding the broader one society is over. That where we're approaching a gamekeeper in some respects and necessity in proportion. And we need to work out how those principles will be properly exercised in the sort of greater sense in because there is a utopian future in which it's all interconnected Lovisa dystopian future in which everything is in secure and could be hacked by the states or by criminals and everything can be spied on by the state to others and the truth is will be somewhere in between. Most of its 100 years was spent being as secret as possible let me was revealed for decades how secret. Still need to be. It feels very different and you're right pointed out there will always be things that has to keep very secret if we are to keep the country safe we have to have the capabilities the accesses the ability to exploit information that gives the you can imagine that means we have to be secret one of the big. Has been attempting to technology in the technological change and new forms of communication for us radio satellites the Internet how much harder is that now for your organization but I think it's always been I think it's genuinely difficult to make a comparison between the challenges of collecting radio signals for the 1st time and the aftermath of World War One with some of the things we're facing today but that said because of the way that technology is so central to what we do and because of the sophistication of technology on offer and the availability of it not just capable states that individuals to terrorists and groups and so I think that breadth of the challenges is much wider than it was and the challenge for us therefore is how can we keep track of all of that and critically I suppose that is how to actually make sure we're having the right sort of debate with public and through parliament on what it is we did 100 years on g c h Q has changed immeasurably much of that is thanks to shifts in the communications technology it's there to spy on but there's something more going on than just adapting from tapping telegraph to filtering fiberoptics data now drives our world working out how to gather intelligence from it while respecting Prissie and protecting the public has forced out into the open. And this technological revolution is only just getting underway. You're listening to the b.b.c. World Service on k.s.u. T.v. 4 Corners Public Radio and southern tribal radio thanks for joining us this is k.s.u. T. Ignace she Ok u.t.e. Again sheoak t.n.g. Durango k u u g farming 10 Q us w. Flora Vista n.k.p. G.s. Pagosa Springs we can also be heard in Cortez make us Silverton and online at k.s.u. Cheap dot org You can stream our signal right there on the website also on the n.p.r. News app i Tunes radio and on to news. Today we're in the u.s. .

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