A federal judge says the city of new york had been deliberately indifferent to Police Officers illegally detaining black and latino residents on the streets over many years. We was beaten one of the plaintiffs and his attorneys. And then we talk to the owner of lavabit, Edward Snowdens email provider. Last week, the owner of lavabit is seriously shut down the company and said he did not want to become complicit in crimes against the american people. We will also speak to nick merrill, who is under a gag order for six years after receiving a National Security letter. Technician orhone systems provider, you have a lot of information that paints a picture of peoples private lives and communications. I believe that comes with a great degree of responsibility. You are a steward of peoples private matters. It seemed to me, it was a moral obligation i had to protect. All that and more coming up. Democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. Federalstoric move, a judge has ruled the stop and frisk rules used by new york city are unconstitutional. Shira scheindlin wrote that police have a policy of racial profiling, leading them to stop blacks and latinos who would not have been otherwise stop if they were white. Attorney general eric holder has officially unveiled a major policy shift to help certain lowlevel drug offenders avoid harsh mandatory minimum prison sentences. In an address to the american bar association, he address the issue of mass incarceration, noting that it houses a quarter of the worlds prisoners. Among other changes, he touted an expansion of the Compassionate Release Program for some elderly prisoners and announced a review of racial sentencing disparities, citing a recent study that cited black men received senses 20 longer than white men convicted of the same crimes. Vicious cycle of poverty, criminality, and incarceration weakens to many communities. Many aspects of our criminal Justice System exacerbates these problems rather than alleviate them. It is clear that as we come together, too Many Americans go into too many prisons for for too long, and for no good reason. A u. S. Drone strike has killed at least two people in yemens shabab province. It was the latest in a surge of strikes that have killed dozens in recent weeks. N. C. Pat gov. Pat mccrory has signed a Voting Rights act that many consider the harshest in the nation. It requires voters to show a governmentissued id at the polls. It also eliminates pre registration for teenagers who will turn 18 by election day. It allows any voter to challenge another voters eligibility, something that could promote vigilantes and at the polls. Ism at the polls. Groups including the naacp and aclu have filed legal challenges, saying the law would this portion of the impact people of color. John kerry has kicked off his first trip to south america as secretary of state. In colombia on monday he faced questions about National Security agency spying following reports from Edward Snowden that the surveillance extends to let america. Glenn greenwald has reported that after brazil, colombia appeared to be the second biggest target of spying. He defended the practice is at a News Conference in bogota. I am confident i was able to explain burley and precisely how we have received the support of all three branches of government, has been conducted under our constitution and the law, and how we have respected countries,s of other and will continue to. Visits brazil today. Meanwhile, the administration tactics. Ing won malis ta has president ial election after his opponent Soumalia Cisse conceded victory. He plans to restore order. The turmoil prompted french troops and a small number of u. S. Forces to deploy to launched a peacekeeping message there. The defense team for Bradley Manning has opened its case in the sentencing phase of his Court Martial after prosecutors completed their case on friday. Defense lawyers began by questioning the decision by his superiors to maintain mannings topsecret clearance it does but despite signs of mental distress, including one instance where he flipped over a table. He faces up to 90 years in prison for giving documents to wikileaks. Officialse committee confirmed on monday they received a petition signed by 100,000 people who support giving Bradley Manning the nobel peace prize. Activist Norman Solomon hand delivered the petitions in norway. Mexicos president has proposed an historic shift in the countrys staterun oil industry, potentially paving the way for foreign multinationals to gain a share. In an address on monday, president and reach a pen name enrique penad proposed plans to introduce privatization. With this reform, Mexican Federation andhe categoricallyare not for sale or for privatization. This reform looks to be strengthening and modernization to allow them to become a leading companies and fulfill their mission to benefit society. California governor jerry brown has signed legislation protecting the rights of transgender students in the state public schools. The new law allows students to play on sports teams, use bathroom facilities, and participate in other activities based on their selfidentified gender. A federal jury in boston has convicted the notorious south boston mobster James Whitey Bulger of a host of crimes including 11 murders. He will likely face the rest of his life in prison. He served as an fbi agent informant. He fled from public view in the mid 1990s following a tip from an fbi agent about an upcoming indictment. Authorities found him in santa monica county, california where he had more than 8,000 of cash stashed in the walls of his apartment. A group who need Organ Transplants are calling on hospitals to stop denying transplants to undocumented people and those who lack health insurance. The group held a mock funeral session and vigil in the honor of his 25yearold woman who was reportedly denied a kidney transplant who died on friday. Her relatives were part of a group of patients and family members who launched a recent Hunger Strike to demand access to Organ Transplants to undocumented and uninsured. The group has been negotiating with chicago hospitals to change the policy. A number ofy found organ donors lacked health insurance. Those who gets Organ Transplants is also the policy for Organ Transplants is also affecting a 15yearold boy in georgia. He has been barred from receiving a heart transplant due to a history of noncompliance. Family friends say they believe the designation stems from his low grades and run in with the law. His mother, melencia hamilton, says she thinks the lack of Venture Resources also played a role. She told an atlanta station that the transplant is the only way to fix her sons enlarged heart. They say they do not have any idence that he would take his medicine. I know it is wrong. If they get to know him, they would love him. Isa tennessee mother appealing a judges ruling to change her infant sons first name from messiah to martin. The babys parents ended up in court when they could not agree on his last name, but the Child Support magistrate said that they had to change his first name, replacing it with martin, his mothers surname. Televisionold station wbir she said the name could put him at odds with a lot of people in a heavily christian county. Interestingly, we have our own messiah here, a videographer here at democracy now a i was raised by conservative christian household and there was no hostility because of my name. It is interesting this is happening in tennessee, a state history of racial bigotry. It is silly, it is just a name. This is what happens when there is no separation of church and state. This is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. Listeners andour viewers from around the country and world. We begin with a ruling that the stop and frisk policy is unconstitutional. U. S. District court judge Shira Scheindlin said that police had relied on a policy which he called indirect racial profiling that led officers to routinely stop black and hispanics who would not have been stopped if they were white. Since 2002, the Police Department has conducted more than 5 million stops and frisks. Nine out of 10 new yorkers have been stopped and frisked and have been innocent. In her 200page order, judge scheindlin wrote to the ruling came after several months of testimony, much of it from 8 plaintiffs who were all African American or latino. Together they described a total 19 incidents in which they were stopped and in some cases searched and frisked unlawfully. Shortly after the decision was announced, the plaintiffs in the case held a News Conference alongside their lawyers. Call thisgot a morning, the first thing i did was cry. It was not because i was said or necessarily happy, but because everything put it is important to know that it is hardgnized to explain. I think it is a really good picture of what is going on in society. It is a big thing for new york, but america as a whole, it shows the polarization of people of color in this country, as how we are reviewed. Just needs to be recognized. Our voices count to something greater. This has been a long time coming, this case, all the time that has been put into its, the sacrifices made, coming over here, giving our testimony on a big issue that has transcended beyond the community of black and brown people. Issue that affects they in tribeca, sanford, have an accurate understanding of this. I am grateful for that. The attention that it has think, it is clear, the psychological consequences of stop and frisk, being a rite of passage for so many black and brown boys, being criminalize and how that carries on into their adult years. We are taking some tremendous steps forward. I am definitely grateful for that. I am so glad that my lawyers i commend them and the judge for doing an outstanding job on my behalf and other plaintiffs. It is just the beginning of reparations. I could have been like trayvon martin. It was just too unbearable. My heart goes out to his family. It is just very hard to get through this, but with the help of my parents and friends, and lawyers, they have done all that they can for me. I love them so very much. It, the reasonut i joined on to this case was because many of us, including myself, feel like stop and frisk is police abuse, and that is the lowest allowable of police abuse. Once that comes out but would stop and frisk, they can do it in terms of falsely arresting people, planting evidence. In the most extreme cases, they could do it in terms of killing people. For many of us, including myself, this is important. If we can find remedies for stopping officers and violating our constitutional rights, then maybe other forms of police abuse as a relates to people in my community, maybe some of that begins to stop. Thatankful for the people believed in us. We were not making up these stories, we did not fabricate anything. We came to the table and said these are our experiences. We are speaking for millions in the city. I know it is premature, but i am that we can really have some teeth in the legislation and make changes to stop stop and frisk. The policies can actually change. Not just talk about change, but really change, make those adjustments so that people can stand on the street or on the sidewalk with their cell phone without having to worry about being seen as a drug dealer. Those were the voices of plaintiffs in the lawsuit. In the ruling, judge scheindlin found she also appointed a federal monitor to oversee reforms with input from Community Members and police. The york city mayor Michael Bloomberg accuse the judge of denying the city a fair trial. This is a very dangerous decision made by a judge at i think does not understand how policing works and what is complying with the u. S. Constitution as determined by the Supreme Court. We believe we have done exactly what the courts allow and the constitution allowed us to do, and we will continue to do everything we can to keep this city safe. Throughout the case, we did not believe we were getting a fair trial. This decision confirms the decision and we will be presenting evidence of that on fairness to the appeals court. That was mayor bloomberg of new york city. For more we are joined by sunita patel, cocounsel on the case. Your response to judge scheindlins ruling . It is an astounding victory for everyone in new york city. She has very correctly and barley decided that the city is engaging in racial profiling. It is a victory for so many hundreds of thousands of people who have been illegally stopped and frisked over the past decade. To those who say that this is the reason crime is down and that the number of lives that whatbeen same saved did i hear one pundit say today year. 0 murders a that this is a result of racial profiling. Thing, there is no empirical evidence linking stop and frisk to Crime Reduction generally. Secondly, this is a tactic that this murder rate reduction in the news is a little bit blurry. That is a statistic that spans the course of 15 years. It is not within the time period we are talking about. When mayor bloomberg came into office, the murder rate was already down to a very small number. They are taking credit for something that happened way before them, and they are blurring the math on the issue. Crime rates have been going down nationally for the last two decades. There just is not a link between the two. Can you explain what judge scheindlin ruled in terms of violating the 14th and fifth amendment, and talk about the remedies she has ordered. In the Fourth Amendment claim, she said that the city has a practice, a widespread practice of going out and stopping people without individualized suspicion that there is crime at the foot, which is what is required by the Supreme Court law in terry versus ohio. In the 14th amendment claim, she says many of these stocks are not only based lack reasonable suspicion, but they are based on race. The city and new york Police Department is using race as a proxy for crime, rather than looking at what this person is doing specifically that would allow the police to stop them. They say because they are black or brown in this area, we are going to stop them to try to prevent crime, which is not constitutional, it is illegal. In terms of remedies, she has said she would appoint a federal court monitor, which is common in policing system reform cases, to oversee the daytoday activities. She also was a second phase of reform were Community Members have a stake in what reforms will happen. She is calling for a joint reform process that will have a facilitator that will also allow the new york city Police Department to have a seat of the table to say what they think would work. This should be seen as an opportunity by the Police Department. Who will be the Court Appointed monitor . He is a partner at arnold and porter. We did not have anything to do with this selection of the monitor, but we do know it sounds like he will be very fairminded, a former court council, attorney, a former district attorney. In my mind, i would think this is something the Police Department and city should embrace working with and we hope they will do that and decide not to appeal the judges well reasoned decision. Commissioner ray kelly blasted the decision and insisted Police Officers do not engage in racial profiling. Disturbingind most and offensive about this decision is the notion that the nypd engages in racial profiling. Recklesslyply untrue. We do not be engaging in racial profiling. Is prohibited by law, it is prohibited by our own regulations. We train our officers that they need reasonable suspicion to make a stop, and i can assure you, race is never a reason to conduct a stop. Most raciallye and ethnically diverse Police Department in the world. Contrast with some societies, new york city and its Police Department have focused their crimefighting efforts to protect the poorest members of our community. Who are disproportionately the victims of murder and other violent crime. Disturbingly so. , 97 ofpoint, last year all shooting victims were black or hispanic and reside in low income neighborhoods. Of thehousing, with 5 citys population, experiences 20 of the shootings. There were more stops of suspicious activity in neighborhoods with higher crime because that is where the crime is. That is Police Commissioner ray kelly speaking on monday. President obama said he may consider appointing him the new secretary of the Homeland Security, to which a law professor at Georgetown University and former Justice Department prosecutors said, ray kelly needs to be the Homeland Security secretary like paula deen needs to run the United Nations food program. He says that he is the poster policeor the most racial policy in the United States. Kelly is saying that they are doing this in high crime communities and saving lives in those communities. Washis is something that analyzed ad nauseam by the court. We had two statistical experts that testified multiple times in the case. She said this is absolutely false. She gave very little weight to the argument. Timeslity, the number of that officers actually check the box on the form that says they are stopping someone based on a suspect description is not that high, between 10 and 15 , depending on the year. Instead they check this box that says high crime area. When we analyzed each incident to 2012, when you control for other factors, race is the determinant. It is not actually the area or crime rate. What about cameras in . The judge has ordered the city to test out and to do an evaluation study of the cameras. This is something that has been done in a few smaller jurisdictions around the country and has had a favorable impact on reducing the number of complaints against Police Officers. If thethis is something, Police Department is doing its job correctly and not engaging in racial profiling, would help and support Police Officers when there are complaints filed against them. You would have a record of what is going on. It is similar to Traffic Camera is that are becoming standard in many large urban jurisdictions where there are complaints against Police Officers. The term stop and frisk can sound pretty harmless, implies a pat down. What is the reality of this practice that you see, in talking with your client . That is a great question. I think people think that it is just a blase pat down. We heard testimony from 12 people who said that this was miliatg, degrading, something that no one should have to go through, and even worse, it is something that an entire generation of black and brown people are becoming desensitized to. We are talking about something that is physically in vases and degrading. This is an officer saying put your hands against the wall, and aggressively putting their hands over their bodies, down their waste, down their pants legs, both sides, and one of our witnesses testified about being grabbed in the groin area. His 18th birthday. He felt it was so humiliating, he filed a complaint. Thatat young age, to bring forward and make that kind of claim and feel that the officer is not held accountable, it has impact. Ng detrimental the city says they will appeal. After they consider the decision, i hope they decide not to. However, they may appeal. They could consider when they will appeal. It is not clear if they can appeal yet. They will likely file a state, king the court stay asking the court and the judge to stay the injunction so they do not have to do anything now. Sunita patel, thank you. When we come back, a democracy now exclusive. Stay with us. [music break] [no audio] and encrypted email service believed to be used by Edward Snowden has abruptly shut down. The move came amidst a legal fight involving u. S. Government attempts to gain access to customer information. Ladarner of lavabit, levison, wrote a response online. Ladar levison says that he was barred from discussing the events over the past six weeks that led to his decision. He went on to write another secure email provider called silence circle also announced it was shutting down. Now and a democracy now broadcast exclusive, we go to washington, d. C. Where we are joined by ladar levison, founder and owner of lavabit. We are also joined by his lawyer jesse binnall. Ladar levison, explained the decision you made. Thank you. I have compared the decision to that of putting a beloved pet to sleep, faced with the choice of or putting itffere to sleep. It was a difficult decision. I felt coming in the end, i had to pick between the lesser of two evils. Shutting down the service, if it was no longer secure, was the better option, in effect, the lesser of two evils. What are you facing, when you say the lesser of two evils, what was the other choice . Unfortunately, i cannot talk about that. I would like to. If the American Public knew what our government was doing, they would not be allowed to do it anymore, which is why i am here in d. C. Today speaking to you. My hope is that the media can uncover what is going on without my assistance, pressure both congress and our efforts through the court system to, in effect, put a cap on what the government is entitled to in terms of private communications. For those who are not familiar with what encrypted e mail is, can you walk us through that and talk about what your Service Provided . Certainly, i have always said service was buying keeps, for geeks. It has grown up over the past several years and has served and those who are pricey conscious and securityfocused. We offered secure access via highgrade encryption. At least four are paid users not for our free accounts that is an important distinction we offered secure storage, where incoming emails were stored in such a way that they could only be accessed with the users password. Even myself, i could not retrieve those emails. Meant by at we encrypted email. That is a term that has been thrown around because there are so many standards for encryption, but in our case, it was interested in secure storage. As a third party, i did not want to be put into a situation where i had to turn over private information. I did not have access to it. That may have been the situation i was facing. I cannot speak to the details of , i would case just leave it at that. Edward snowden recently described your decision to shutdown lavabit as inspiring fear he told the guardians Glenn Greenwald snowden went on to say ladar, youre the Service Provider for Edward Snowden . I believe that is correct. Obviously, i did not know him personally. It was widely reported and there was an account bearing his name on my system, as i have been made aware of recently. Glenn greenwald also wrote he goes on to write ladar levison, why did you start lavabit . Just to add one thing to greenwalds comments, there is information i cannot even share with my lawyer, let along with the American Public. If we are talking about secrecy, it has really been taken to the extreme. It is being used by the Current Administration to cover up tactics that may may be ashamed of. To answer your question, why did i start lavabit . It was right out of college, i was sitting around with friends, i owned the domain name we thought itand would be cool to offer a free private email with a large quota, like gmail, and we built a service along those lines. As i was designing the customer platform, it was right around when the patriot act came out. That is really what colored my opinion and philosophy and why i chose to take the extra effort and build in the secure storage features, focus on the privacy niche and security niche. We have seen a lot of demand butm people who want email do not necessarily want it lumped in and profiled with their searches or browsing the other any other internet activities. That is how we have focused over the years, up to when i shut down, 410,000 registered users. In this time you have complied with other government subpoenas . Yes, we have had at least two dozen subpoenas in the last 10 years, from local sheriffs offices all the way up to federal courts. Obviously, i cannot speak to any particular one, but we have always complied with them. It is important to note, i have always complied with all law. It is just in the case, i felt complyingh the law with the law and we do have to be careful at this point. I think he can speak hisphically philosophy behind lavabits, as to why it will lead to his decision. Jesse, how difficult is this for ladar levison, what he can say, what he cannot say . How high are the stakes . Very high it is a very unfortunate situation that, as americans, we are not supposed to have to worry about. Ladar is in a situation where he has to watch every word he says when he speaks to the press for fear of being in prison. We cannot even talk about what the legal requirements are that make it so that he has to watch his words. The simple fact is, i am here with him only because there are some very fine lines that he cannot cross, for fear of being dragged away in handcuffs. That is the exact fear that led the founders to give us the First Amendment in the first place. It is high stakes. Letter, you write, a favorable decision would allow me to resurrect lavabit as an american company. Are you suggesting that you would consider moving abroad . Not think i can continue to run lavabit abroad as an american citizen. I would have to move abroad, effectively, to the minister service. As an american citizen, i am still subject to the loss and jurisdiction of the United States, particularly as long as i continue to live here. That is why i have a lot of respect for snowden, he gave up his entire life so that he could speak out. I have not gone to that point. I still hope it is possible to run a private service, private Cloud Data Service here in the United States without necessarily being forced to conduct surveillance on your users by the american governments. Can you say if you have received a National Security letter . No, he cannot. We will talk about the overall issue for those who are not familiar. Ladar levison, soon after you pulled the plug on lavabit, another email provider called silent circle also shut down. Mike janke, the cofounder and ceo said ladar, your response . I can certainly understand his position. If the government had learned that i was shutting my service down can i say that . I think it is best to avoid that topic, unfortunately. I think it is fair to say that silent circle was probably in a different situation than lavabit was, which is probably why they took the steps they did, which were admirable. I will say, i do not think i had a choice but to shut it down without notice. I felt that was my only option. I will have to leave it to your listeners to understand why. Lavabitportant to note, was not the first Service Provider to receive a government request, and we are not the first to fight it. We are just the first Service Provider to take a different approach, and it could very well be because of our size that we have that option. We are wholly focused on secure email. Without it, we have no business. You take a much larger provider with a greater number of employees, and shutting down a major section of their company when they have to answer to shareholders, may not be a viable option. What have you decided to speak out today, ladar . Because my biggest fear when i shut down the service was that no good would come of it. I am hoping that by speaking out, i can hopefully prompt congress to act and change the laws that put me in this circumstance to begin with. That is a little ironic, considering i cannot speak about the specific laws that put me in this position, but, there is a real need in this country to establish what their rights are of our mcleod providers. To makee take action sure we can continue to operate secure and private services, i think we are going to lose a lot of business over the next few years. I think all the major providers, not just lavabit, have gone on record to say the same. Do you think people should use email . Yes, it is a great way to communicate. We are entering a world where we have any number of ways of communicating, from postal mail, to twitter, facebook, a text message, instant message, e mail, telephone, video chat. They all blend together, they all fit their own niche, purpose, and i think email still has an Important Role to play in communication between people. Should we just assume it is all being read . I think you should assume any communication that is electronic is being monitored. Break andgoing to then come back to our discussion. Servicebe joined by a provider who did get a National Security letter and is now able to talk about it. We have been speaking with ladar levison, owner of lavabit, who just shot down as a Service Provider, provided service to Edward Snowden. Jesse binnall is his lawyer. This is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. We continue the discussion about lavabit. We are joined by someone who is under an fbi gag order for six years after receiving a National Security letter that asked him to hand over detailed records of his clients. Nicholas merrill was running an internet Service Provider in new york. Under a law, recipients of the letter are barred from telling anyone about their counter with the fbi. While Nicholas Merrill was not the First American gagged from he didng an nsl, question the tactics. He went to the American Civil Liberties union who then filed the first lawsuit filing the statute. In the lawsuit, he was identified as john doe. It was only in 2010 after receiving reaching a settlement with the fbi that he was able to reveal his identity. Thank you for being with us. Also still with us is the founder and ceo of lavabit, ladar levison. He is with his lawyer. As you listen to the story of our guest, talk about what you received, what that caused you to do . I got a personal visit from fbi agents in my offices in 2004 and delivered meet a letter demanding that i hand over a lot of information about one of the clients of the company. It caused me great concern because the first thing that shocked me was that this was not a court order. This was a letter from the fbi signed by an attorney. It seemed to me that it was not a legal order, it seemed clearly not constitution on its face. The fbi had not gone to court, had not proven probable cause before a judge, and the other problem with the letter was that i could never tell any person that i have received a letter, which obviously precluded me from talking to a lawyer or to anyone about it. I was quite afraid to disobey the letter. After i took a bit of time and thought about it, i thought, we always have the right to speak to an attorney, so i spoke to my private attorney. Then we went to the aclu, and then we ended up embroiled in this court said that has lasted almost seven years. And has also involved four librarians from connecticut who also received an nsl when they were asked about Library Users in the state of connecticut. Yes, at that time, they were just known were justdoe and i doe, i iconnecticut was known. California, the ninth circuit, there was a similar ruling. The problem was, we were never able to get to the Supreme Court to get a final binding ruling that would affect the whole country. To be honest, it felt like the government was not really acting in good faith that when it seemed like they would lose, they would back out of these cases. It seems to me they were afraid to have the Supreme Courts rule on the issue itself. Why is this important . It is really important, because what is at the heart of warrantless wiretapping, on americans without any suspicion of wrongdoing. As we have heard from Edward Snowden, this is a widespread problem. What i started to get a sense of what was happening, in 2004, essentially, the rule of law was being eroded by a combination of the department of justice acting without proper checks and balances, overseeing what they were doing. By invading the courts and court oversights, and by issuing these National Security letters themselves, they were able to gather huge amounts of information on americans. By putting everyone under a gag orders, they were able to prevent anyone from talking about it. If you even talk about getting a letter, you face five years in prison. Why dont we turn to president obama, speaking in 2005, speaking about National Security letters. At that time he was still a u. S. Senator. This is legislation that puts our Justice Department above the law. When National Security letters are issued, they allowed federal agents to conduct any search on any american the matter how expensive, how wide ranging, without ever going before a judge to prove that a search is necessary. A sign off needed is from a local fbi agent. That is it. Once a business or person receive notification that they will be searched, they are prohibited from telling anyone about it, and they are even prohibited from challenging this automatic get order in court, even though dges have filed similar restrictions violate the First Amendment, this conference report this regards the law and challenges the gag order. If you do decide to consult an attorney for legal advice, hold on. You will have to tell the fbi that you have done so. Think about that. You want to talk to a lawyer about whether or not your actions are going to be causing you to get into trouble. You have to tell the fbi that your consulting a lawyer. This is unheard of. There is no such requirement in any other area of the law. I see no reason why it is justified here. If someone wants to know why their own government has decided to go on a fishing expedition through every person record or private document through the Library Books you read, the phone calls you have made, the emails you have sent, this legislation gives people no rights to appeal the need for such a search in a court of law. No judge will hear your plea, no jury will hear your case. This is just plain wrong. That was barack obama speaking in 2005 when he was a u. S. Senator speaking about National Security letters. Ladar levison, i know you cannot say if you received a letter, but what are your thoughts on hearing this . Toi think it is important note, it is possible to receive one of these orders and have it signed off on by a court. Ishave the fisa court, which effectively a secret court, sometimes called a Kangaroo Court because there is no opposition, and they can effectively issue what we used nsl. Onsider to be an thathe same restrictions your last guest talked about. Can you talk about the work around privacy that youre doing today, nick . If you were shaping policy and internet privacy, what would it look like to you . One of the points we are trying to make is the concerns about cybersecurity and people need confidentiality about medicine, journalism, a humanrights is a third. We are trying to make the case that if the rights of americans to increase their data and have private information is taken away, it will have a far reaching an effect on many kinds of industries, on our democracy as a whole, and our standing in the world. There has also been a study recently saying the governments policies, weakening the right to privacy and the right to encrypt, will cost clout Service Providers offer to 35 billion over the next few years. I think it will have a terrible economic effects. These are issues we need to consider when we look at the policies the government is taking. Ladar levison, you shut down lavabit. What would it mean if you will, microsoft, yahoo took a similar stand . I think a major portion of the u. S. Economy which had done with it. Whether that would cause barack obama to reconsider his policies, i do not know. You think of the web a blackout protesting sopa. Well, they did shut down some noncritical services for a day. A visibleas more of protest. Our economy depends upon email. And more now than ever before, it depends on gmail. Gmail is used to host so many corporate email accounts, along the microsoft65, cloud service. Effectivelywn would force millions of americans to find a new way to communicate. We have to leave it there, unfortunately, ladar levison. Thank you for being with us. Has just decided to shut down his Service Provider, lavabit. Jesse binnall, attorney, Nicholas Merrill of the