Transcripts For LINKTV Democracy Now 20140407

Before the attack. The that information was never made public as president obama made the case for war. Then the rwandan genocide 20 years later. Ands a multifaceted daunting challenge, but we cannot afford to succumb to cynicism or despair because the alternative to preventive or preventing genocide is bearing the bodies in the aftermath. That is not what we want. Commemorations are being held in rwanda today to mark the anti94 genocide that left over 800,000 people dead over a span of 100 days. We will go to rwanda and also look at the clinton administrations refusal to admit it was the genocide. How many acts of genocide does it take to make genocide . That is not a question i am in the position to answer. Is it true you have specific guidance not use the word genocide in isolation in respect to this . I have guidance to which i try to use as best as i can. There are formulations that we are using, that we are trying to be consistent in our use of. All of that and more coming up. This is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. Protests were held nationwide this weekend urging president obama to stop the deportation of undocumented immigrants. Thousands of people marched in at least 62 cities. Some mark saturday as the day when the Obama Administration likely reached its 2 millionth deportation. According to New York Times 2 3 of those deported under president obama have committed minor infractions, such as traffic violations, or had no criminal record at all. President obama has taken aim at the new republican Budget Proposal in his weekly address. He said the gop plan would widen inequality. Quick the republican budget begins by handing out massive tax cuts to households making or than 1 million a year. Then to keep from blowing a hole in the deficit, they have to raise taxes on middleclass families with kids. Next, the budget forces deep cuts to investments that help our economy create jobs like education and scientific research. Policies that make it harder for working americans to succeed. That is not what we need right now. The budget would also repeal the Affordable Care act in addition to signing up over 7 Million People for private Health Insurance plans, it figure show obamacare also added at least 3 Million People to medicaid. Yemen has issued a temporary ban on u. S. Military drone strikes following an attack that killed scores of civilians late last year. The New York Times reports joint special Operations Command is no longer allowed to wage drone warfare in yemen after the december strike that killed around 12 people attending a wedding. Despite the ban on u. S. Military, the cia continues to carry out strikes in yemen. Will mark one year since president obama delivered a speech calling for scaling back the u. S. Drone war, including phasing out the role of the cia. Active protest is drone attacks in pakistan, a group of artists and villagers have unveiled a giant poster of a young child on the field in a heavily bombed region. Organizers say the child lost her parents and two young siblings in a u. S. Drone strike. Her picture is large enough to be picked up by satellite imagery. A federal judge has dismissed a lawsuit challenging the u. S. Governments killing of three americans in yemen drone strikes. The families of muslim cleric and war alan lackey, his teenage son and samir khan had filed a suit accusing top is officials of unlawful killings. But on friday, u. S. District court judge Rosemary Colyer ruled the victims Constitutional Rights were never violated and said the u. S. Officials involved cannot be held liable. Despite that ruling, judge colyer also added hundreds of prorussian demonstrators have seized government buildings and in three east ukrainian cities. Some are calling for a referendum to break off from ukraine and join with russia like the one in crimea last month. The ukraine government says the demonstrators are trying to spark new military incursions from Russian Forces amassed on the border. Millions of people turned out in afghanistan this weekend to cast their votes in a national election. Eight candidates are vying to replace outgoing president karzai. The high turnout came despite threats of violence in the telegram. Full results are expected later this week. Israel is threatening unilateral action if palestinians president was statehood moves at the United Nations. The Palestinian Authority apply for membership in 15 International Conventions and treaties last week after israel reneged on a pledge to free palestinian prisoners. On sunday, israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said palestinian efforts to obtain International Recognition will be answered by unilateral moves on our end. The Obama Administration is backing israels opposition to Palestinian Statehood efforts. Testifying before a house panel last week, the Us Ambassador to deter. Said trying to palestinian action is what we do all the time, and that is what we will continue to do. The mayor about the quirky, new mexico has requested federal monitoring of the citys police force amidst uproar over a spate of april shootings. The latest opera quirky police kill james boyd, a homeless man who appeared to be surrendering at the campsite where he was sleeping. The fbi is investigating the killing in addition to around 22 others by police since 2010. At a news conference, mayor Richard Berry called federal monitoring an immediate step forward while the investigation continues. With the length of time it has taken the doj to complete the review, coupled with the events surrounding the james boyd incident, i do not feel i can wait any longer to take action. I believe it is the right thing to do for the city of albuquerque and i think it is the right thing to do for the Albuquerque Police department. The mayor also announced plans to train citi field officers and better handling people with dental illness who account for the bulk of the polices victims. Albuquerque is one of the highest per capita rates of Fatal Police Shootings in the country. Suing government officials, including defense secretary chuck hagel over what it calls the illegal detention of to journalist. Toledo blade reporter and photographer were taking stock photos of a General Dynamics tank plane another local businesses for public areas. The military police confiscated two cameras and diluted a number of photos, including some unrelated to the plant. The suit also says fraser was unlawfully strain for more than an hour and threatened with bodily harm. The whistleblower Edward Snowden and the journalist Laura Poitras have been named recipients of this years right now are prize for truth telling. The annual award is named after the late ron right now are who helped expose the massacre in vietnam. Poitras has been one of the key journalists to report on snowden disclosures over the past year. Andrds Committee Said those are some of the headlines. This is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. As syria continues to remove its chemical weapons arsenal under the monitoring of the United Nations, new article by the Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Seymour Hersh questions what happened last year in the syrian city of ghouta, when hundreds of syrians died in the chemical weapons attack. The u. S. And much of the International Community blamed forces loyal to the alassad government and the incident almost led the United States to attack syria. But according to hersh, while president obama and secretary of state john kerry were making the case for u. S. Strikes, analysts inside u. S. Military and Intelligence Committee were privately questioning the administrations central claim about who was behind the chemical weapons attack will stop according to hersh, u. S. Defense Intelligence Agency issued a highly classified fivepage talking points briefing on june 19 which stated that the Syrian Rebel Group alnusra remained maintained a sarin production cell. According to the dia, it was the most advanced sarin plot since al qaedas pre9 11 effort. The document went on to state a month before the dia briefing was written, more than 10 members of alnmusra were arrested with what local police said were two kilograms of sarin. Seymour hersh now joins us from washington, d. C. Will stop his latest piece is headlined, the red line and the rat line. It was just published in the london review of books. Welcome back to democracy now lay out what you have found. I think the most important thing about the document is that , as you know, i was on this show in the london review did a piece i wrote months ago, questioning the whole issue of whose sarin, was the title. What we do know, im talking about the military, the pentagon and the analyst, the sarin that was recovered wasnt the kind of then that exists in steering arsenal. It raises the question about the basic elements of the president s argument for planning to go to war. Document,oint of this and the reason i rosa much about it, is because when i did that piece months ago, the white house said they know of no such document and they have no information about sarin being in were otherf alnusra jihadist groups inside syria. What is scary about it is the military community, i know the southern command, etc. , or worried about this possibility. The war is going bad for some of these jihadist groups. Other groups have the capacity now to manufacture sarin with the help of turkey, and the fear is as the war goes bad, some of this sarin, you can call it a strategic weapon, when used right he can tell many people quickly, can be shipped two units outside syria. They will farm out the chemicals they have, who knows where, northern africa, middle east, other places, then you have a different situation that we are confronting in terms of the war on terror. That is the reality. The white houses position again with this article, once again, even though this document they claim no longer existed and we ran a big chunk of it, clearly, i have access to it, they are still insisting we know of no such document. This head in the sand approach really has to do with something i read about in the article. I quote people are saying, was the president makes a decision it is a must impossible to get it changed. The president decides if the syrians did it and we are justified in thinking that and continuing to think that, no option exists. Yes the headedness and policy. We have a serious problem with these kinds of weapons, particularly as syria its rid of the weapons. The only people inside syria with those weapons are the wackos. There we are. What is the rat line . The rat line is an informal thereation the cia are a lot of copper to people in the cia. I give it a hard time, but you have to knowledge a lot of people still work there that are knowledgeable and know what theyre doing. During the iranian war when cheney and bush were deeply involved in trying to find out whether there was a secret underground Nuclear Facility inside iran, we would send in joint special Operations Command teams undercover from pakistan, from wherever, through routes that the cia had known for smuggling and moving trash. They would use those rat lines to go in. The rat line in this case is, when i dont 2012 know why, maybe because of the victory we thought we had in libya, which is a mess of its own, he set up a secret operation inside libya to funnel arms through turkey into the syrian opposition, including all sides those who are secular, those with legitimate grievances, and the other groups sponsored by the saudis and the others trying to create a soul Office Government salfist government, take it over. They went for a long time and only ended when the consulate in benghazi was overrun. It was done without telling congress. The reason we even know about it, there was a recent senate Intelligence Committee report on benghazi that was published a few months back raising questions about security, etc. Come at the same issues republicans talk about. There was a secret annex that describes this process of funneling stuff and it was done with money money from the turks, saudis, and qataris. The cia was deeply involved in this. In effect you could almost say, in his own way, obama you can call it shrewd. He was almost channeling the saudi arabia and qatari and turks to get something done we wanted done, which was to have basharosition defeat alassad. It was a longrunning operation that only ended by the way, when it ended, when it shut down after benghazi was overrun, we suddenly saw all kinds of crazy weapons showing up, including the antiaircraft missiles. They were suddenly showing up inside syria in the hands of various jihadist groups. The rat line we set up after we shut it down had a life of its own, which is often what happens in these kinds of operations. After the syria talks concluded earlier this year, secretary of state john kerry renewed his backing of the departure of Bashar Alassad and said the United States is prepared to increase support for the rebel opposition. More to make syria amanda for terrorists them Bashar Alassad. He is the single greatest magnet for terrorism that there is in the region. He has long since, because of his choice of weapons, because of what he has done, lost any legitimacy. I will say to you lots of different avenues will be pursued, including continued support to the opposition and augmented support to the opposition. That was john kerry. Seymour hersh, your response . By this time they knew from the joint chiefs of staff, they knew the british had come to us with sarin that had been analyzed at their laboratories. And we share laboratory on biological warfare issues with britain. We americans share that in terms of analyzing International Problems when it comes to chemical and biological warfare. We have a lot of confidence in the british confidence. The brits came to us with samples of sarin, and they were very clear there was a real problem with the samples because they did not reflect what the brits know and we know in the russians knew, everybody knew is inside the syrian arsenal. Professionals armies have additives to sarin. The amateur stuff, they collect kitchen sarin. You can make it easily with inert chemicals. You can actually calibrate what is in it. They came to us really within six to eight days, 10 days of the august 21 last years turtle incident in terrible incident inside damascus when hundreds were killed. It was overwhelming evidence. The joint chiefs of staff led by martin dempsey, commander of the Central Command the cover the middle east, they did go to the president and raised questions and let them know the problem and also talked about the fact the military i can say it was unhappy. Military people, when you give them an assignment they will do it, but often they see the risk more than civilian leaders. The president wanted a wave of bombings in the military came up with a list of a number of targets i think 21 or 31, Something Like that. They were told by the white house, i dont know who, they wanted something that would create more pain for bashar. The next thing you know, theyre coming back with bombers powerng bombs, hitting nodes and electricity notes, the kind of attack that would cause a lot of damage to civilian infrastructure. That was an awful lot for the joint chiefs. They really raised the question with the president. As i write, i dont think theres any other issue that would have forced him to stop as he did. The notion of we are suddenly going to go back and sign up chemical disarmament treaty with the syrians that the russians have been talking about, that have been raised a year earlier and we did not bite them. He clearly jumped on it then. Look, you have to give the president credit. As much as he wanted to and talked about it, when faced with reality, he backed down. He did not say why. We dont expect we have learned not to expect much credibility and foreignpolicy issues. Unfortunately, the fact we dont get Straight Talk from the top means the bureaucracy can do Straight Talk. Sy, i want to talk turkey for a minute. In your pc mention the leaked video of a discussion between the turkish Prime Minister and senior officials of a false flag operation that would justify Turkish Military intervention in syria. This is erdigans response to the leaked recording. Today they posted a video on youtube. There was a meeting on the turkish border. The evenly this on youtube. This is villainous. This is dishonesty. Turkey briefly imposed a ban on youtube following the leaked recording. Seymour hersh, could you explain reporte erdogan misters ministers support is . Theres not much we can do about it. Let me tell you what we know. What we know is turkey, the alnusra groups have been inside turkey buying equipment and also reports theyve received some training from the Turkish Intelligence Services which is known fora man who is thislosest close to not only edogan, but the fundamental groups. We know the supply training. We also know i guess you could call it another rat line, there is a flow if youre going to send the chemicals when mixed , that flowke sarin comes from inside turkey. Unitof a paramilitary known as the gen armory and m. I. T. Both are responsible for funneling these things into radical groups all stop there is a flow of trucks that brings the stuff in. Intenseinvolvement is and i can tell you, and as i wrote in his article, the conclusion of many in the intelligence community, i cant say it is report because they did not write a report. The conclusion is based on intercepts we had, particularly after the event, was there are elements of the turkish government that took credit for. Hat happened in Eastern Ghouta if you know obama, said in the summer 2012, there is a redline that if they crossed in terms of using chemicals or doing too much, the opposition, he will bomb. Dying trying repeatedly in the spring theres a lot of evidence of this in the spring. The u. N. Knows this, although, they dont say it. And the American Community new. That is reason why the sick report i wrote about the talking paper was written. Knew the radicals had used jihadist groups had access to nerve agent and used it against syrian soldiers in march and april. Those incidents that were described by our government as the responsibility of the rebels with high confidence. It is just not so. The report makes it clear. We have had a huge problem before the august attack near damascus. We knew about the potential months before, and it is the kind of information, for some reason, it doesnt fit with the administration wanted to hear. So it just never got out. On sunday, the website. Ublished a piece the author scott lucas questioned the claim that rebels could of been responsible for the chemical weapons attack last august, given the range and scale of the operation. He wrote the Chemical Attacks were followed by heavy conventional attacks. The author scott lucas says that you fail to ask questions about whether anyone apart from the regime would have the ability to carry out such an extensive operation. Sy . We are past that. The New York Times even ran a retraction of sorts. They had written a series of articles after the events saying the warheads in question that did the damage came from a searing army base, Something Like nine kilometers or six miles away. And at that time, there were a number of analysts, a group from , clearly somebody with a great deal of background and no bias, they did a series of studies with a team that included the warheads are probably did not go more than and most. Kilometers we now know from the u. N. Report , it has been concluded the same thing, these missiles fired were fired no more than a mile. One looks just from the footage one saw, they were homemade. They did not fit any of the criteria been known weapons. And dont think we dont have a very good picture of what the syrians have in terms of warheads. They have a series of warheads that can deliver chemical weapons, and we know the dimensions of all of them. None of these weapons that that. So you have a u. N. Report, this independent report saying there were no more than one or two kilometers, so i dont know why were talking about multiple launch rockets. These are homemade weapons. It seems clear to most observers, they say even to the u. N. Tina did the final report, because of whatever rules they have, the u. N. Was unable to say who fired what. They can describe the weapons and never make a judgment. I can tell you, i quote sunday from inside the Investigation Unit who is very clear that the weapons fired were homemade and not. Army. This is asked and answered. These are arguments that go on. I assume it is a blog. s interest, if it were the case and pushing the red line and supporting an attack that would be attributed to alassad, their interest in getting u. S. To attack syria . Oh, my god, totally great interest. Ofogan, the Prime Minister turkey, has put in enormous amount of effort and funds and others, including his Intelligence Service at areosable he and bashar loggerheads. He wants to see him go. He has been on the attack constantly, supporting the most radical factions there. And i must say he is also supporting the secular factions, the people who seriously want to overthrow bashar and dont want to see a jihadist regime. Turkeyres no question is a deep investment in this. It is going badly. It is very clear now the syrian army has the upper hand and essentially the war is essentially over. In terms of getting rid of bashar, that is no longer a done deal. There will be some outpost perhaps in areas near turkey where there will be various factions, under pressure from the syrian army all the way, but essentially, this is a losing card we have. We dont like to admit it, but that is it. Bashar has held on. Seymour hersh, thank you for being with us. We will have a link to your latest piece in the london review headline, the red line and the rat line. This is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. Back, 20 years ago today, the genocide in rwanda began. We will go to kagame. Stay with us. [music break] this is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. Today, rwanda is holding somber commemorations for the 20th anniversary of the genocide in which 800,000 people died. Rwandanng president paul kagame will light a flame that will burn for 100 days come the link of time it took ever met soldiers and hutu military details thousands of people, largely tutsis. France has pulled out of the events following accusations by president kagame that it participated in the mass killings. This is French Foreign minister spokesperson romain nadal. France decided to cancel the trip, who is expected to lead the french allegation on monday to kigali. We want december 20 anniversary of the genocide, we share the grief of the rwandan people. We bow to the memory of all victims and france will continue in the future its gestures of remembrance to pass on the souvenir this genocide in order for it to be universally known. April 6, 1994, rwandas extremist hutu government and military led a campaign to exterminate the minority tutsis. During the genocide, an estimated 800,000 people were killed in three months of systematic slaughter. Then, women, and children were massacred in an orchestrated preplanned campaign of genocide not seen since the jewish holocaust. The killing continued for 100 days. In rwanda, the machete became the symbol of horror as the situation spiraled into a bloodbath. The u. S. Was careful never to call the genocide because that eightletter word carried obligations to intervene under international treaties. On a visit to the rwandan capital in 1998, president clinton apologized for not acting quickly enough and immediately calling the crimes genocide. International community, together with nations in africa, most Barrett Share of responsibility for this tragedy as well. [applause] we did not act quickly enough after the killing began. We should not have allowed refugee camps to become safe haven for the killers. [applause] immediately call these crimes by their rightful name genocide. [applause] , butnnot change the past we can invest do everything in our power we can and must do everything in our power to help rebuild a future without fear. President clinton was speaking at the airport in kigali. Last week in brussels, United Nations secretary ban kimoon said the International Community must wrong lessons from the rwandan genocide. The International Community often does not act, even when atrocity crimes are happening. The reasons may vary from competing definitions of National Interest to the complexity and risk of a given situation, and there may be little [indiscernible] but is that a sufficient reason to look away . Is that not merely an echo of what we heard 10 years ago . For more we speak with journalist jina moore speaking on the commemorative events for the 20th anniversary of the rwandan genocide. Jina moore, you have just come from the ceremony. Can you describe what is happening in the capital of . Wanda, kigali jina, are you there . Can you hear me . I hear you, yes. Sorry about that. It is quite in kigali today. Almost all of these doors are shut. The streets are quiet. The stadium was full of people. Were a lot of vips and are wanted to wanted to mark the anniversary of the genocide together. There were speeches. There were testimony by survivors. A lot of people were moved. There were survivors in the stadium who experienced trauma. Crying andiling and theyre usually escorted out of the stadium, taken to a special room where there are counselors and Mental Health professionals to help them. Latestyou talk about the kagameetween president and the french . That,t i know about basically, i know from International News reports. You mention that yesterday the french decided to pull out. The Foreign Ministry responded. Disinvite in the french ambassador to the ceremony. There was only one phrase spoken in french and the play that happened today. Im going to paraphrase, but it was Something Like there are countries that dont truly understand what genocide was and dont speak its truth. That was the only thing we heard in french. You just spoke to president kagame . Im sorry . Did you recently interview president kagame . I interviewed him about a week ago, including with a reporter from a french newspaper. The only american journalist. They spoke about the relationship with france, which seemed on unstable footing. But it seemed the french were perturbed a bit. That is within the last few days. In the coming days, we will also look at what has become rwandas role in ugandas role in the killings in the congo. For now, jina moore, thank you for being with us from kigali, rwanda, just come in from the commemorative ceremony honest 20 anniversary of the rwandan genocide. As we turn now to our next guest, jeanmarie kamatali, former dean at the National University of are one of school of law am an assistant professor at the Ohio Northern University college of law. He recently wrote a piece in the New York Times. Can you talk about your own experience in rwanda 20 years ago. Where were you when the killings started . I was at home. I was just leaving my parents in a small town which is actually one of the hottest places in kigali. Thest thing we heard night before was a soccer game. We were watching the soccer. In the morning, my mom knocked on the door and said, the president has been shot and things will not be the same. Waited me, we usually we would wait for them to broadcast and declare whatever is going to happen. My dad locked the door and everything. A day after. Ked a Family Member not a Family Member, but a neighbor helped us. We were kept there for days because the militias were saying that they will kill people and kill others on the 23rd because they were saying the president will be buried on the 22nd. That is how in between we managed to escape. It was a long ride for me because a friend helped me and put me in the car. He declared i was his son. People were killed and everything. Until i reach the southern part worst wonder where the happen. A lot of people were killed and everything. I just managed to escape swimming through the lake to drc, and that is how im putting it short, but it took me almost a week. In your reference to the death of the president before, explain what happened. The plane crash that killed the of parenti and rwanda right before the genocide began. Rwanda, itident of was in a conference in islam and was with different president s in the region. On the way back, that is how his lane was shot down his plane was shot down at the airport. The plane just happened to land almost in his backyard. This is something many people did not know. We kw that before there were militias and it was dangerous, trusting. E really we were trusting the u. N. There were peacekeepers. As much as we thought things were bad, we trusted the united manyns because we knew people may be killed in the rb danger and everything, but the United Nations and the new government that was actually and the rph had just entered kigali and were going to create a government. For most of us, without peace was possible. We were wrong, but we thought it was not going to be the way it apriled on the night of 7. I want to turn to general Romeo Dallaire. In canada,view on tv he reflected on why the u. S. Ultimately refused his r for more troops as the genocide started unfolding. They refused because the u. N. And its Member States were very much gun shy. Also, because the United States in the first morning in the Security Council working room stated quite clearly that not only will they not intervene in another african adventure, but it will support no one who wants to. And unless you have a strategic ability to move into rwanda, that is by airplane, then it is karen nissley difficult come if not impossible, to go by road and there is no shift or port. Unity strategic lift. But what became more predominate in this, is the fact because mogadishu and the american losses in somalia to six months before, and the reaction of the americans and president clinton who said, we will not intervene anymore unless it is in our selfinterest, and the fear of casualties spooked International Community. And no one wanted to get into the middle of this complex problem and take casualties. That was general Romeo Dallaire who is head of the u. N. Peacekeeping report referring to somalia the year before when the u. S. Lost 18 military and what has come to be known as black hawk down. Jeanmarie kamatali, did you feel abandoned by the world at this point . Im sorry, did i did you feel abandoned by the world . Exactly. And this is what people needed theiranda, just giving time. What people needed was at least hope there was something that could be done. Remember when i was hiding in bushes. There were some u. N. Soldiers. Building in one big and just on top of one building. People could see them looking down. A guy with a gun and everything. And say, this is the United Nations, this is the organization that was created to just stop or at least never again after the holocaust. Thathat is when you know you look around and you look up and you look everywhere and you know that you are abandoned. Many people accepted this because they did not know what to do. There was no hope. There was nothing. You look at the United Nations and the the the government has abandoned you. You look at your parents, people who told you you have to be strong and everything. The dreams you had for many years, and they reduce that in a month and then days. At some point, you wish you could be just a lie for an hour or 10 minutes be a live for an hour or 10 minutes or a few minutes. That is when you get traumatized and you give in. I know many people who did that because there is no hope. The United Nations abandoned rwandans. The United States abandoned your were wantons. It is very hard for people to trust International Community again. And to believe things are going to be different. Although things are getting better. Jeanmarie kamatali, thank you for being with us, a former dean of the National University of are one of school of law. Speaking to us from columbus, ohio. We will have a link to your oped in the New York Times following orders in rwanda. We come back from break, what was the u. S. Awareness at the time . We will look at the documents the National Security archives has now gotten a hold of and released and we will speak with a professor who has written several books about rwanda will stop what did the u. S. No . What do the french know . Why would the u. S. Not invoke the word genocide . Stay with us. [music break] this is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. We continue our coverage of the 20th anniversary of the rwandan genocide. We go to washington, d. C. Where Emily Willard. She and her team are utilizing formerly classified documents released by the defense Intelligence Agency to help bring accountability to the atrocity. Welcome to democracy now start off by telling us what you have, what you feel is the most important of the documents you have released. Think one of the most Important Documents that we have released is over the years one of the key documents shows the u. S. And the International Communitys failure to intervene in rwanda when the genocide was already occurring. Theres the department of defense memo that is a onepage memo, clearly saying there is an idea that the United States jam in rwanda that were inciting the massacres. The document clearly says it would be ineffective and too expensive to jam the radios, and it would be cheaper for the United States and more efficient to follow up after the violence had ended with state support. So this clearly shows the was apprehension the u. S. Is apprehension in militarily getting involved and going for the after the fact relief. However the key point here for people who are firmly with this is the role of the radio in the genocide. The incitement to kill tutsis, calling them, most famously, cockroaches. Yes. And while this document is certainly key, and we have had this one for a while, the remaining key documents that really will tell the behind the scenes about how some of these key decisions were made are still classified. Theyre bogged down in the declassification process. Unfortunately, some of the key documents we really need as an International Community to understand how these decisions were made are still not available to the public. Were in the process of working with the government to get them declassified, but importantly, the key behind the scenes conversations are not available to the public. I want to go to some of the clips of u. S. Officials. U. S. Government carefully avoided using the word genocide to describe what was happening in rwanda. Clip from the pbs frontline documentary ghosts of rwanda. Comment on that or view as to whether or not what is happening could be genocide . As i think you know, the use of the term genocide has a very precise legal meaning, although, it is not strictly a legal determination, there are other factors in there as well. In looking at the situation to make a determination about that before we begin to use that term, we have to know as much as possible about the facts of the situation. Given that so many people say there is genocide underway or something that strongly resembles it, why wouldnt this convention as you know, this becomes a legal definitional thing, unfortunately, there becomes a definitional thing. In 1994. Ine albright seven weeks into the genocide, then president bill clinton restated u. S. Policy on intervening in foreign conflicts. The end of the superpower standoff lifted the lid from a cauldron of long simmering hatred. Now the entire global terrain is blood was such conflicts from rwanda to georgia. Whether we get involved in any of the world ethnic conflicts, in the end, must depend on the collective way of the American Interest at stake. That was president clinton. In a press conference in june, correspondent alan elsner questioned state Department Spokesperson Christine Shelly 1994 on how she would describe the events taking place in rwanda. We have every reason to believe that acts of genocide have. Occurred. How many access it take to be genocide . That is not a question im in a position to answer. Is a true you have specific guidance not use the word genocide . Which ie guidance to try to use as best as i can. There are formulations that we are using, that were trying to be consistent in our use of. That was the state Department Spokesperson Christine Shelly being questioned by reuters correspondent. Scott straus is with us in addition to Emily Willard. He has written several books on rwanda, including, the order of genocide race, power, and war in rwanda. , thessor straus significance of the u. S. Response at the time not willing to call what was happening a genocide . The u. S. Is one of the key actors at the time. The policy was clearly not to get involved in rwanda. But the u. S. Plus actions were critical. The u. S. Was not acting alone. Great britain and belgian at that time and within the bureaucracy of the United Nations, there was a real reluctance to get involved. And france as well, leading to the fight happening today with the delegation, highlevel delegation pulling out of the genocide commemorations because of kagame sing the french were responsible. Yeah, the french had a much more controversial history with rwanda both before the genocide and even during the genocide. France was the leading ally of the regime in rwanda, the regime that ultimately orchestrated the genocide. The controversy is, how much did they know, when today know, some accuse them of being involved in the preparations for genocide. Nonetheless, they were the main ally of the regime that orchestrated genocide, and so that is one of the reasons why their role is been so controversial. Wrote2001, Samantha Power an article in the atlantic magazine called bystanders to genocide. In it, she wrote at the time she was founding executive director of the carr center for human rights policy at Harvard Universitys Kennedy School of government. She is now the u. S. Ambassador to the United Nations. She is leading the u. S. Delegation at the rwanda commemorations. Emily willard, the significance of this and the documents that you have that are the underlying documents to the kind of statements were hearing from president clinton to Madeleine Albright i, the then secretary of state . The debate around whether or not the genocide could actually occur had actually occurred was very clear right after the plane was shot down in the violence started. There was a debate going on with the department of state. It wasnt until the end of april that it was declared publicly that acts of genocide had occurred. And then, not until the beginning of may that the secretary of state came out and said a genocide had occurred. You see in the documents the reporting within the state department, very clear hesitation to not overestimate the number of people who were being killed. And actually, interestingly, as the process of getting the documents declassified, your examples there are examples where the United States in the document says, we are not sure is an exaggeration. In the First Release of the document, that sentence was redacted because even after the genocide happened, there is still a hesitation to be clear and open about what the intelligence was and how that analysis of the intelligence was handled. Ire fax, scottla straus, the head of the u. S. Peacekeepers writing to the a genocide was about to take place . People have gone back and looked and there been clear warnings that something really terrible was happening, including the possibility of genocide or extermination. The significance of the january was ahat dallaire wrote warning to the United Nations headquarters in new york that there were efforts to train militia, that there were stockpiling of weapons, a warning of significant violence against civilians and even possible extermination. Romeo dallaire was essentially requesting some type of authorization to be aggressive in uncovering those stockpiles of weapons and so forth. And the u. N. Headquarters essentially was riskaverse saying, dont get involved. This was a real Early Warning, a chance that something could have happened before the genocide started in april, and the decision was not to do something. The significance is, a refusal to act on Early Warning and really ignoring the possibility that something really awful could happen in rwanda. Emily willard, how unusual it is that you cannot get these documents declassified from 20 years ago . That is definitely a concern. Especially with president ial records, 12 years after the president leaves office, there should be an increase access to information. Those 20 years expired last january. It is very concerning we are still having a hard time getting , especially behindthescenes youre talking about president clinton. Yes, the president ial records from the national Security Council where a lot of these decisions were likely made. 20is concerning because years after the fact, especially , the documents and information we have to leave it there, Emily Willard and professor scott straus, thank you for being with us. [captioning made possible by democracy now ] this is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. Asking you to support link tv. Link tv need your support because it is commercialfree. It is yours. That is very rare in this country with the corporate media. You have independent media. You have it on both Satellite Networks and were asking you to call right now. 8663594334. You are the link. You are the support line for independent media in this country. To a reallyrn important series called untold history of the United States. As well as a documentary series. It is both directed by and written by oliver stone, the Academy Awardwinning filmmaker who has taken on three american president s. Jfk, nixon, and george w. Bush. A vietnam veteran himself, oliver stone was decorated with a bronze star and purple heart. As a filmmaker, he tackle the most controversial aspects of hiswar, the vietnam war, in classics platoon and born on the fourth of july. Is explored latin america through his film salvador. Now his venture today is the untold history of the United States, a fourpart dvd series