Channel alhurra. A female suspect traveling in her car with a child tried to breach a white house barrier and later was almost stopped near the capitol. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Whoa get this, get this. I am. I am. [ gunshots ] holy [ bleep ]. [ speaking Foreign Language ] come down, come down. [ speaking Foreign Language ] heres what we know at this hour. At about 2 18 this afternoon, the female suspect identified as miriam kerry of stanford, connecticut, traveling in a black infinity coupe with her 1yearold daughter struck a security barrier surrounding the white house grounds at 15th street and ebe. The barrier was not breached and secret Service Uniformed division tried to stop the vehicle. Police then gave chase for about 1 1 2 miles, all the way to constitution avenue and Second Street near the capitol. The vehicle ran several red lights durning a chase in which it reached speeds of 80 miles an hour. The suspect was ultimately shot and killed after crashing the car outside the Senate Office building, directly outside di derrickson. The child is reportedly in protective custody. In the chaos of the moment, a police car responding to the emergency crashed into a barricade. Oh, my what the [ bleep ] just happened that was supposed to be oh, [ bleep ] Police Presence was massive and instantaneous. Amid a shutdown in which Capitol Police are deemed essential personnel, but will not be paid, until after the shutdown comes to an end. The officer injured in this crash was taken to a hospital in a medevac helicopter. That officer, a 20year veteran of the force, is reportedly in good condition. A second officer, a secret service officer, was also injured during the incident and is also reportedly in good condition. Two sources tell nbc news the female suspect did not have a gun. All the shots reportedly came from Law Enforcement, not the woman in the car, according to a Police Source just briefed by the capitol hill police. The incident placed the capitol in lockdown for about an hour. Both chambers were in session at the time and some lawmakers heard the shots from their position inside the capitol building. Tourists with few options amid a partially closed capitol were caught in the chaos. An incredible scene on a day when washington was already in a state of supreme tension and agitation. Joining me now with the latest is msnbc news justice correspondent, pete williams. And pete, what do we know at this hour about why this took place, what possible motivation there was . Nothing. The best indication we have is from Police Officials and congressional officials who were excuse me briefed by the investigators, who simply say that the woman had a history of what they call mental issues. But the rest is all questions. Why did she come from washington . She worked up in connecticut as a dental hygienist. Why did she come down here. Why did she go to the white house. After her encounter at the white house, thats where the secret service was injured, when she basically hit the secret Service Agent with her car. He was injured, but the injuries are not serious. He received minor injuries, the secret service says. Then she drove up to the capitol, where this happened, where she was stopped and then she backed into the police or the secret service vehicle, and then kept going after they were shooting. Remember, all the while, there is this 1yearold child in the car with her. So what possessed her to do this, what possessed her to do any of these things, to disobey repeated verbal commands to stop, repeated shots fired at her car. We dont know whether, as youre seeing these pictures now, whether she at this point is wounded. We have to assume that she is. These were you saw those shots fired at relatively close range, as she was fleeing. But all the questions, i think, are going to take a while to answer. The police are searching for house in connecticut tonight. Theyre going to talk to neighbors, her employer. She has some relatives in new york city. Theyre talking to them, to try to get a better picture of what happened. It was remarkable to me two things. One is that as the story came out that she was able to make her way, the mile and a half from the white house to the capitol, and second of all, that the well, that part, i think, is not very surprising, because once you get away from the immediate area around the white house, the only thing thats going to prevent you from getting to the capitol is traffic. Right. 2 15 on a day when the capitol is going through a shutdown, a lot of federal employees are not here, the traffic is not heavy as usual. She just was, you know, obviously, she wasnt concerned about her safety at any of these points. Shes blasting through red lights, going at a very high speed. But she does, i mean, i think its telling that i dont know if she knew where she was going. Pennsylvania avenue to the u. S. Capitol is a fairly direct route, from the white house to the base of capitol hill. Whether she knew that she was that was her next destination or not, she headed to the same to the part of the city that had the greatest on the street security. Pete williams from nbc news, thank you so much for your time tonight. You bet. Joining me now is senator Bernie Sanders, independent from vermont. He heard the gunshots on capitol hill today. And senator, describe the scene to me. Well, i was leaving a meeting in the capitol, going back to my office at the dirkson office building. And about halfway there, i heard these police cars driving furiously down constitutional avenue. Their sirens blaring. And then just at that point, i heard four or five gunshots. And, you know, one began then you began to see a whole lot of Police Officers converging on the scene, telling people to get down, get down. Another senator and i ducked behind a car and then we were escorted back into the capitol. It was remarkable to me how efficiently and quickly the Capitol Police seemed to get the situation under control, keep the lockdown, and then they lifted the lockdown, and then, actually, the congress resumed business in the afternoon. No, thats thats absolutely right. A, these guys are very well trained. And they do a good job. Second of all, i think people are on edge. Everybody remembers the two or three weeks ago, we had this terrible shooting in the navy yard. I think 12 people were killed. Theres a lot of tension going on on capitol hill now with the Government Shutdown. So its a tense time. But they know their job and they did it very well. They also, one has to add, are part of the federal workforce that is being affected by the shutdown. Theres a certain irony here today about the fact that amidst the shutdown, these are some of those workers that are being directly affected. Chris, thats a very important point. Here are these guys, putting their lives on the line every day. And youll remember about 15 years ago, two guys got killed when some deranged gunman walked into the capitol. But its true all over the country. We have now over 1 Million People who are working. Theyre protecting the borders. I think theyre in intelligence agencies, theyre doing head start delivering meals to frail, elderly people on dirt roads in vermont. You have all of these folks out there. And right now, they dont know if theyre going to get paid, day dont know when theyre going to get paid. And like everybody else in this country, they have mortgages to pay. They have College Loans to pay, and it is grotesquely unfair that this is happening to them. Theyre under a lot of anxiety, and its just wrong. Senator Bernie Sanders of vermont, always a pleasure. Thank you so much. Thank you. Coming up hes hurt, but he said, im paraphrasing, but not much. He said, i work every day to make sure youre safe. And when he says me, hes not talking about me, hes talking about us. My thoughts are with him for a speedy recovery and again my administration goes to all federal Law Enforcement, but especially our Capitol Police. That was senator harry reid, himself a former u. S. Capitol police officer, i learned that today, talking about his conversation with the officer who was injured today during the incident in washington, d. C. There is a great irony to all of the collective administration and outpouring we saw from Congress Today for these folks and we will talk about it, coming up. Melia. Neil and buzz for teaching us that you cant create the future. By clinging to the past. And with that youre history. Instead of looking behind. Delta is looking beyond. 80 thousand of us investing billions. In everything from the best experiences below. To the finest comforts above. Were not simply saluting history. Were making it. More is better. Thats why we designed the allnew nissan versa note, with more technology, to get you into, and out of, tight spots. And more space so that you always have your favorite stuff. And, just for good measure, an incredibly efficient 40 mpg highway. So that when youre doing more, youre spending less. The allnew nissan versa note. Your door to more. Now get a 139 per month lease on a 2014 nissan versa note. Coming up later in the show, a peek inside the republican shutdown strategy courtesy of an open mic. Well be right back. Discover card. I missed a payment. Aw, shoot. Shoot this is bad. No were good this is your first time missing a payment. And youve got the it card, so we wont hike up your apr for paying late. Thats great it is great thank you. At discover, we treat you like youd treat you. Get the it card with late payment forgiveness. With an ultrathin coating and fast absorbing advil ion core™ technology, it stops pain before it gets worse. Nothing works faster. New fast acting advil. Look for it in the white box. Huge deserved appreciation on the house floor today for the Capitol Police, which worked with other Law Enforcement to secure the capitol and pursue the suspect amid the chaos on capitol hill. As we mentioned, one Capitol Police officer was injured and hospitalized after his squad car crashed during the chase. Numerous lawmakers tweeted out their appreciation for Capitol Police officers in the aftermath of the incident, with this tweet from republican congressman bill shuster striking a typical tone, all of us on capitol hill owe a debt of gratitude to the Capitol Police who keep us safe every day. It was a little hard to escape the irony, of course, that these Police Officers were risking their lives to protect the very people like shuster who shut the government down and caused a delay on their paychecks. While Capitol Police are required to provide protection during a shutdown, they dont get paid for their work until lawmakers decide to fund the government, which could be a little while, when they are paid retroactively. That is cold comfort for the Capitol Police officers, the federal government workers, who need to pay their bills right now. As reporter adam snyder sarcastically tweeted, so glad the Capitol Police got that house ovation that they can use to feed their families and pay their mortgages. With me now is gerry connelly. What do you think about watching these men do their duty at the same time that republicans in congress are essentially denying them their paycheck . You know, its awfully hard to put a kind word to it, chris. Hypocrisy comes to mind. Do you have no sense of shame comes to mind. Here are people were applauding, who responded to what could have got been an incident that got way out of control. We really werent sure. And they responded with professionalism under very atypical circumstances. And their thanks is we stand up and applaud them. But of course, meanwhile, theyre not big paid. And many of these capitol hill Police Officers, you know, are frankly of modest means. And to be denied that cash flow is a great hardship for them and their families. Congressman, you represent a district in Northern Virginia that has a lot of federal workers in it. What are you hearing from their constituents about the effects of this shutdown, as people are now starting to say, well, were definitely going to go another two weeks . I think there is a growing sense, chris, of angst that the republican strategy, whats emerging as the republican strategy is, were actually going to play games, but keep the Government Shutdown and get close to the october 17th debt ceiling date and then have strike a bargain, or threaten to strike a bargain. Meanwhile, were hold fraing fel workers, and of course the American People, hostage for the better part of 21 days. There does not seem to be a lot of urgency in the House Republican caucus about the shutdown. In fact, everything youre hearing from the reporting from leadership is, theyre gaining this out for a few weeks. I want to play something, its a clip of stewart varney, on fox business news, talking about federal workers, because theres part of me that thinks, the hardship federal workers are receiving from this is actually a feature, not a bug. Take a listen. I dont think they should get that back pay, frankly, i really dont. Im sick and tired the of a massive, bloated federal bureaucracy living on our backs and taking money out of us, a lot more money than most of us earn in the private sector, then getting a furlough, and then getting their money back at the end of it. Sorry, im not for that. I want to punish these people. Do you think your colleagues on the republican side of the aisle want to punish these people . I sure hope not. What you just played is one of the most meanspirited, selfcentered, exaggerated expositions of what the federal government is and what the workers who work for the federal government do ive ever heard. That is an insult to anyone in Public Service and it certainly insults the American People. Im just astounded. And i would hope thats a minority view on the republican side of the aisle. But it is part of, i mean, part of the broader context of this whole shutdown, of course, is the idea that coming from the right, the federal government is bloated, that it needs to be cut, that it actually is kind of a drain on americans liberty and freedom, and actually maybe people will like having the federal government shut down. Well, i guess theyre betting on that. But this is a cut the government at any price, you know, the ryan budget cut the federal budget by 5 trillion over ten years. 5 trillion with a t. You know, they just cut 40 billion in the s. N. A. P. Program, the food stamp program, cutting cutting 3. 8 Million People off the rolls, half of them children. And now theyre playing this game, and by the way, they got the lower number. And they refused to take yes for an answer. Thank you, congressman gerry connly. Coming up, an incident was caught on camera at the world war ii memorial that tells you everything you need to know. Park services should be ashamed of themselves. Im not ashamed. Well, you should be. This clip will make your blood boil. Ill show it to you, next. My asthmas under control. I dont miss out. You sat out most of our game yesterday asthma doesnt affect my job. You were out sick last week. My asthma doesnt bother my family. You coughed all through our date night i hardly use my rescue inhaler at all. What did you say . How about every day . Coping with asthma isnt controlling it. Test your level of control at asthma. Com, then talk to your doctor. There may be more you could do for your asthma. [ babies crying ] surprise your house was built on an ancient burial ground. [ ghosts moaning ] surprise your car needs a new transmission. [ coyote howls ] how about no more surprises . Now you can get all the online Trading Tools you need without any surprise fees. Its not rocket science. Its just common sense. From td ameritrade. This is congressman Randy Neugebauer, republican from texas. He says hes going to keep the government shut down for, quote, as long as it takes. But when it comes to the world war ii memorial, which is part of this as long as it takes shutdown, Randy Neugebauer decided to make a public show of berating a Park Services employee who has absolutely nothing to do with closing the government. How do you look at them and say, how do you deny them access . I dont get that. Its difficult. Well, it should be difficult. It is difficult. Im sorry, sir. Park services should be ashamed of themselves. Im not ashamed. You should. People who arent passing the budget. This woman is doing her job, just like him. A 30year federal veteran. Im out of work. The reason you are is because mr. Reid no, its because the government went do its job and pass a budget. Lets take this somewhere else. Good for that guy in the bicycle helmet, speaking up, because i was as angry as he was when i saw that clip, but that disgraceful display by the congressman from texas is not to work of one loose cannon lawmaker, its part and parcel of the only thing the Republican Party seems to do anymore. Ill explain what it is, next. Its not for pain, its just for sleep. Because sleep is a beautiful thing™. Zzzquil. The nonhabit forming sleepaid from the makers of nyquil®. [ male announcer ] build anything with the new toyota tundra. Toyota. Lets go places. With tat any minute. Ndra. You could be a victim of fraud. Most people dont even know it. Fraud could mean lower credit scores, higher loan rates. And maybe not getting the car you want. Its a problem waiting to happen. Check your credit score, check your credit report, at experian. Com americas number one provider of online credit reports and scores. Dont take chances. Go to experian. Com. If yand youre talking toevere rheuyour rheumatologistike me, about trying or adding a biologic. This is humira, adalimumab. This is humira working to help relieve my pain. This is humira helping me through the twists and turns. This is humira helping to protect my joints from further damage. Doctors have been prescribing humira for over ten years. Humira works by targeting and helping to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to ra symptoms. For many adults, humira is proven to help relieve pain and stop further joint damage. Humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. Serious, sometimes fatal events, such as infections, lymphoma, or other types of cancer, have happened. Blood, liver and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening Heart Failure have occurred. Before starting humira , your doctor should test you for tb. Ask your doctor if you live in or have been to a region where certain fungal infections are common. Tell your doctor if you have had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have symptoms such as fever, fatigue, cough, or sores. You should not start humira if you have any kind of infection. Ask your doctor if humira can work for you. This is humira at work. We are now three days into the shutdown of the federal government. Why are republicans set on keeping the shutdown going . The answer is, nobody knows. Not even republicans. We now know that the republican shutdown is about nothing. And today, we have the definitive evidence in the form of a quote from congressman marlin stutsman, venting his frustration about the lack of progress in the hostage negotiations his party started. Congressman stutsman said this. Were not going to be disrespected, so thats where were at today, where we have to get something out of this, and i dont know what that even is. Reporter its almost as if republicans dont know what they are mad about. I dont know what were yelling about with the illusion of legislative substance out of the way, republicans are focusing on the one thing theyre good at, shaping the message. Do you have a second . Im all wired up here. I just go over and over again. Were willing to compromise, were willing to negotiate. I dont think they poll tested that we wont negotiate. I think its awful for them to say that over and over again. I do too. And i just came back from a twohour meeting with them and that was basically the same view privately as it was publicly. I think if we keep saying, we wanted to defund it, we fought for that, but now were willing to compromise on that, i think we can were going to well, i know we dont want to be here, but were going to win this, i think. Those were kentuckys senators, honing the latest gop talking points fresh after each man used them on live tv. I hear from the American People all the time, why dont you guys compromise . Well, there will have to be a compromise. Weve been offering some compromises. The American People expect us to negotiate. Theyre saying we wont negotiate. Which is he doesnt want to negotiate. I cant understand why a compromise or negotiation would be bad. Reporter rand paul and Mitch Mcconnell were just sticking to the message, because with the president refusing to negotiate with hostage takers, the message is all they have left. From their message about the world war ii memorial there was a time during the attack in benghazi when there were five people there. Today there were seven people trying to keep the world war ii vets from seeing the monument. And they sent more guards to the world war ii memorial today than they did to benghazi. Reporter to their message about democrats heartlessness towards cancer patient. Listen to this, senator majority leader harry reid said saving a child with cancer is not his priority. While we work out our differences here in washington, children should not be denied the treatment. Dont take hope away from those families. It is obama and the democrats who want these kids with cancer not being allowed to visit the hospital. Reporter and finally, to the grand daddy of them all, the talking point about president obama negotiating with everyone but republicans. Let me see if i understand this. The president will talk to syria, iran, vladimir putin, but he wont talk to members of the house. Hell negotiate with iran, putin, but he wont sit down and talk he will negotiate with syria, who will negotiate with putin, who will negotiate with iran. Iranians and syrians and russians he wants to say hes not going to negotiate with boehner, but he will negotiate with putin. He can talk to iran, but dont talk to congressional leaders. But he wont talk with a republican this is just ridiculous. Weve got the president who is willing to negotiate with iran, russia, and syria, but not with the members of congress. Potus negotiates with iran, putin, but not congress, shocking. The president has the time to negotiate with iran. Shows hell negotiate with the iranians. Negotiate with the nation of iran. Who he refers to america as being satan. But wait a second you can talk to irans, talk to ive heard that talking point a lot. Its a good talking point. Reporter republicans cling so tightly to their message to obscure one thing, obama care, the original reason that republicans shut down the u. S. Government, well, it looks like it might be working. Disney Just Announced it will be offering fulltime positions to 427 parttime employees in florida to qualify for obama care. And across the country, people are signing up for obama care. People like butch matthew, a republican, who signed up for obama care after he realized it would save him 13,000. Kimberly, an uninsured worker was relieved after she signed up. I found out today that i do qualify at my level and so im excited about that. Reporter reverend Donald Morton didnt have insurance before this week. I, myself, was not approved for health care because of preexisting conditions. So while im a pastor, while i have a ph. D, im a regular season. Joining me now is republican congressman, blake farrenthold from texas. Congressman, i feel like ive lost the plot a little bit with the shutdown. So you want to defund obama care, right . Listen, weve already given up defunding obama care. We just want fairness now, where if you dont want to sign up for obama care as an individual, you dont have to. Wait, is it your now position that you no longer support defunding obama care . Listen, ive i support defunding obama care, but weve already given that up in our third pitch to the United States senate. Were saying, lets treat individuals no, but heres the thing the same way we treat corporations and labor unions. But heres what it looks like right now. This is how i understand the shutdown. The republicans are shutting down the government because the president and harry reid wont let them unshut down certain parts of the government. Thats not the case at all. But thats all youre talking about no ones talking about obama care. We have agreed to unfund in one of our offers to the senate, we agreed to unfund 100 of the government, including obama care, which was a stretch for me as a conservative. All we were asking was that individuals not be fined if they dont sign up, tif they choose not to. Anybody who wants to can. That was our last offer. But congressman, i just want us to be honest here. The reason you want to delay the individual mandate is because you dont like obama care and you want to get rid of it. I dont understand hiding the ball. A week ago, at least, your caucus was being honest about this. You guys dont like obama care, you want to get rid of it, now all im getting, this is the message of the day, which ive heard from other people, which is we want fairness. But lets be honest here. You want to get rid of the law absolutely. And we think thank you. The law will collapse under its own weight. And were trying to mitigate the damage in the meantime. Congressman, that is the weird thing. Because you think the law will collapse under its own weight, and this is a thing i can never understand, i dont think youre being disen engigenous. This is an article from Bloomberg Businessweek of the experience of one call center who was taking calls on the first day of signup in nevada. When the website opened 17 minutes later, the website was flooded with inquiries. In the first few hours, it was just raw emotion calling in. People eager for insurance, at times in tears, wanted to get coverage they didnt have before. So why do you want to take away these Peoples Health insurance . We dont. Yes, you do. You just told me you want to defund obama care. Our last offer was allowing you voted to defund obama care four days ago. To sign up, and believe me, that was a stretch for a lot of us. Congressman blake farrenthold from texas, thank you very much. My pleasure. Joining me now, senator tammy, a senator of the budget committee. Congressman was making a reasonable question, delay the individual mandate for a year. Whats wrong with that . Well, this is about the Government Shutdown, and we need to focus right now on reopening the government. This is not the context in which to deal with their animosity to the Affordable Care act. And thats the crisis thats facing us right now, frankly. We sent, from the senate, a continuing funding res resolution to the house of representatives last friday. They need to act. It is time. Speaker boehner needs to put that continuing funding resolution for six weeks now, he needs to put it before the house. We are very confident there would be a bipartisan majority who would pass that, and the government would open up and then we can get to the negotiations on the debt ceiling as well as the other challenges that america wants us to be to be tackling right now. But the challenges are growing our middle class, growing manufacturing jobs, helping out Small Businesses senator, were hearing from the republican leadership, it sounds like their gaming this out, that this is going to be a week and a half. I mean, what is the leverage here . What is the leverage that you in the senate or the president has over this House Republican caucus, which doesnt seem to be guided by the normal laws of political gravity . Well, certainly, when we face the deadline thats looming on october 17th, we have something that is of enormous consequence. And i was just reflecting earlier today, we saw a video of president Ronald Reagan addressing the congress saying, we have never defaulted on our debt, and i call on congress to make sure that we dont cross over that line in this was back in the 1980s, obviously. This is something that we must not do. And we have heard earlier today that thats a line that most moderate republicans will not cross. But thats, i think, why theyre dragging out this Government Shutdown. And theyre putting politics ahead of progress. Thats what is so frustrating to americans. You know, we came here i ran for the senate, my counterparts ran for the house, because we want to be working on the economy. We want to be growing good jobs for the middle class. We want to be looking at the future and what the future holds for the next generation. And the fact that we are seeing these political games being played is outrageous. Senator Tammy Baldwin of the great state of wisconsin, one of my favorites, thank you so much. Thank you. Coming up, how republicans latest shutdown stunt. Maybe stuntdown. Should we call it stuntdown . It involves stethoscopes and no shame. Its unbelievable. Well be right back. Dad dad katy perry is coming to town. Can we get tickets, pleeeeease . . . Tickets . Hmm, sure. How many . Well, theres hannah, maddie, jen, sara m. , sara b. , sa whoa, whoa. Hold on. under his breath here it comes. We cant forget about your older sister thank you, thank you, thank you seriously . What . I get 2x the thankyou points on each ticket. Can i come . Yep. The Citi Thankyou preferred card. Now earn 2x the points on entertainment and dining out, with no annual fee. To apply, go to citi. Com thankyoucards your husband left his cell phone on. And youre not necessarily proud of that. But tonight, he made the pizza. With johnsonville italian sausage. The premium cuts of pork and Perfect Blend of herbs and spices gave every bite even more flavor. And everyone loved it. And youre definitely proud of that. Johnsonville. Served with pride since 1945. Do i really need to add downy every time . And i say, yes. You really do. [ sniffs ] just toss downy unstopables in before the wash. Then pour downy infusions right in here for scented softness that helps reduce pilling, fading, static, plus fresh scents that last up to 12 weeks. Thats as long as bears hibernate. Sure, you could go without it, but do you really want to be that person . Downy unstopables and downy infusions in every wash. Youll be unstopable. In every wash. Life could be hectic. As a working mom of two young boys angies list saves me a lot of time. After reading all the reviews i know im making the right choice. Online or on the phone, we help you hire right the first time. With honest reviews on over 720 local services. Keeping up with these two is more than a full time job, and i dont have time for unreliable companies. Angies list definitely saves me time and money. For over 18 years weve helped people take care of the things that matter most. Join today. take me home. ill be gone. in a day or. man twooooooooooooooooo is that me, was i singing . Vo not paying for scheduled maintenance feels pretty good. Nocharge scheduled maintenance now on every new volkswagen. Thats the power of german engineering im sorry i had to wake you. Im just looking for a doctor. Theres nothing to worry about. Stewardess, i think the man sitting next to me is a doctor. Sir, excuse me, sir. Im sorry to have to wake you, are you a doctor . Thats right. We have some passengers that are very sick. Could you come take a look at them . Yes. Hi, everyone, you might be wondering why im wearing this stethoscope. You know im not a doctor. And i probably look ridiculous. Probably as ridiculous as House Republicans looked this afternoon amid their latest stunt. When the president shut down the government this past tuesday, i dont think they realized the impact on things like cancer trials, for children can with cancer. Ive taken care of many children with cancer during my medical practice, and as a parent, every parent can appreciate the seriousness of that and the need to solve those can kind of problems. That was georgia representative tom price, with other House Republicans, introducing a bill to restore funding, just to the National Institutes of health. So why is that ridiculous . Because congressman price is wearing his lab coat and stethoscope, even though he hasnt practiced medicine since he opted to run for the house senate . 1996. And im guessing the rest of those people standing behind him in lab coats havent practiced medicine in quite some time either. And the on reason eric cantor wasnt in a lab coat is because he doesnt have a medical degree. But if the costuming didnt tip you off this was a stunt, there are two other dead giveaways. One, House Republicans did not propose a mini continuing resolution to fund the nih until this story ran tuesday in the wall street journal, which pointed out that since the Government Shutdown, the National Institutes of health began turning away dozens of children, many suffering from cancer from drug tries. Suddenly, when theyre getting bad press from the wall street journal of all places, House Republicans find their conscience. And two, remember, this is the same House Republican caucus that brought us the real world hurt of sequestration cuts back in january, when it cut nih funding by 1. 55 billion, which cuts research and delays progress in the development of better cancer drugs, which will have longlasting effects, considering medical breakthroughs do not happen overnight, but rather three years of incremental research. In fact, this specific cut to the nih was so troubling to all on all in, that we invited republican congressman Renee Ellmers on the show, who to her credit, sponsored a bill to restore the nihs funding, because its the right thing to do. And do you know how many vote that is bill got . Zero. And do you know why it got zero votes . Because House Speaker john boehner never brought it to the floor. Joining me now is dr. Georges benjamin, executive director of the American Public health association. Dr. Benjamin, there is an argument that republicans are making which is that if you care about cancer treatment, if you care about whats happening in the nih because of the Government Shutdown, just fund the nih. What do you think of that argument . Chris, how you doing . My problem with that is thats a false choice. I care a lot about those 200 people and 30 kids who have cancer. But i also care about the 48 Million People who get foodborne illness every year and the 3,000 who die. Im concerned about the fact that were in flu season and we arent tracking the flu like we ought to. Im concerned about the fact that hospitals arent being adequately regulated, and, you know, we have 100,000 people who die each and every year because of medical errors. Weve got a lot of the issues here we have to deal, and health care as a system, and that stunt that they pulled just doesnt cut it. Theres been a lot of effects, effects on sequestration, before we got to the shutdown, cdc was doing cancer screenings that had to be cut back. Have you seen in your role as running a Public Health organization, have you seen the effects of that . Weve lost over 44,000 local Health Department workers over the last few years, both because of the federal and local cuts because of the economy and the sequestration and these cuts at the federal level have just made that worse. Were losing whole programs, including our bioterrorism preparedness programs. Big cuts there. So were having significant problems throughout the health care system. Is there an argument that you can make to the public about the importance of investing in these kinds of programs, and what ends up happening, the reason that were talking about nih cuts and being shut down is because its part of the discretionary budget that has been the focus of such battle between republicans and democrats, and its rolled into the other stuff government does. Why does this stuff matter . Why is it important . You know, we often ignore prevention until something bad happens. And i can tell you, when i was at the state Health Department in maryland, dealing with responding to the tornado that occurred in Southern Maryland or the anthrax letters or west nile virus or the drought and weve had, you know, tornadoes all around the country, we get them every spring, and were probably going to get some terribly this spring, the Health Departments respond to that. Weve had a big flu season, we had a pandemic flu. Good news was, the mortality wasnt as high as we feared, but we did have it. And flu season comes each and every year and people need to get their flu shots. Dr. Georges benjamin, thank you so much for your time. Joining me now is publisher of the federalist, web magazine, senior fellow of the heartland institute, and sam seder. All right, ben, i have been beating up on republicans all night. Im in a very red meaty mood this afternoon because im super angry and frustrated about the shutdown. And i genuinely feel like i have lost the plot on this thing. Like, i knew four days ago when they wanted to defund obama care, i guess, why they were shutting down the government. They seem to think that the message of defunding obama care doesnt work, so now the message is about the shutdown himself, but i dont understand why theyre shutting the government down. I want you to answer for me after this break. I was made to work. Make my mark with pride. Create moments of value. Build character through quality. And earn the right to be called a classic. The lands end no iron dress shirt. Starting at 49 dollars. Democratic texas state senator wendy davis burst on to the political scene after her epic filibuster of a bill restricting abortion a few months ago. Today she announced shes running for governor of texas and tomorrow ill tell you how shes the one who can save bobaa care. Well be right back. Today, thats easy. Ge is revolutionizing power. Supercharging turbines with advanced hardware and innovative software. Using data predictively to help power entire cities. So the turbines of today. Will power us all. Into the future. Out for drinks, eats. I have very well fitting dentures. I like to eat a lot of fruits. Love them all. The seal i get with the super poligrip free keeps the seeds from getting up underneath. Even wellfitting dentures let in food particles. Super poligrip is zinc free. With just a few dabs, its clinically proven to seal out more food particles so youre more comfortable and confident while you eat. A lot of things going on in my life and the last thing i want to be thinking about is my dentures. [ charlie ] try zinc free super poligrip. Back now with ben domenech and sam seder. All right, ben, why are republicans shutting the government down . Because its the only way they know how to force the president to start a negotiation process with them over the most unpopular aspects of obama care, in their view. By this point, after so many negotiations, these guys are just tired of looking at each other. And thats one of the things that i think is playing into this. I want to speak to a moment about what you were saying earlier about the nih. The nih funding has gone up dramatically over the years, and actually thats because of Senate Republicans under bill frist, leading the charge to double nih spending over the course of a decade. And in fact, it was a republican measure that would have restored those sequester cuts that was attached to the Senate Budget earlier this year. Its not quite fair to say that republicans intended to send all these kids kicking and screaming off of the cancer trials no, im not saying that. Thats what theyve been saying about harry reid for two days. Im not saying that. In fact, youre right, bill frist was an incredible champion of the nih. Thats why we had Renee Ellmers on. But the fact of the matter is, the sequester, which has become the baseline, which republicans hated but now embrace, is a baseline that mandates cut. Lets keep in mind, the number of sequester, the reason the house couldnt pass a appropriations bill on transportation was that their own caucus couldnt carry the votes to do it. I want to get back to the point of whether or not its fair to blame the republicans for whats happening with the nih. Basically what were hearing from the republicans is basically, you know, we were stuck on traffic, we wanted to drive our car on a busy sidewalk. Its not our fault that people got hit. Thats basically the point. The idea that the republicans are using this as a negotiation of legislation that has already been litigated and incredibly irresponsible and reckless. It is equivalent to driving your car on a busy sidewalk and saying, like, you know, my intention was no to hit people. Well, the fact of the matter is, any person who knows better, knows thats whats going to happen. Ben . Just as with every negotiation that weve seen in the past, just with h. W. Bush, when it was democrats shutting down the government and fighting over the debt ceiling in order to extract tax increases from him, weve seen this play out in the past. This is the process that washington goes through no, that is i understand these historical anal justice. In fact, Government Shutdowns, like the one were having right now, are abnormal, but not extremely freakish, right . I think weve had 17 since the modern budget process was inaugurated. The most actually under Ronald Reagan and tip oneill, who of course we all now think of, Chris Matthews just wrote a book about this, about having this amazing relationship, those were the most shutdowns. But they handled the debt ceiling negotiation in 2011, the way theyre handling it now is genuinely unprecedented. You have people like ted cruz going around saying to cameras, its not that big a deal if we go through. And historically, the real question is, had a continuing resolution or a budget been brought up at that time and the congress had the opportunity to vote on it, would they have voted to approve it . And the fact is, that bill hits the floor right now. There are enough members of congress to pass the continuing resolution. So you have one man who is afraid of losing his speakership, essentially, saying, its either my losing the speakership or the government shutting down. What about this idea that boehner should bring the clean cr to the floor for a vote . I dont think that theres any motivation to do that . I think theres more motivation, frankly, after the president s most recent remarks, to persuade the people who are worried about the markets to bring a clean debt ceiling increase forward as opposed to dealing with the cr. I think that the shutdown from the perspective of republicans is actually working out for them a lot better than they expected. Which is one of the reasons why i dont think were likely to see it end anytime soon. Thats interesting. You think you could imagine a clean debt ceiling brought to the floor while the government is still shut down and the cr, and the sort of pressure of the shutdown hangs over everyone. The American People are a lot less concerned about bureaucrats staying home and not getting pay than they are about the marketplace ben, but heres the thing. You cant do this, though. What you just did there is you just articulated the sort of deep conservative thinking about this whole thing. This is that the money thats flowing out of the federal government is going into the pockets of the bureaucrats who arent getting their pay. But were also talking about the cancer kids getting turned away from the and the women not getting nutritional assistance for their kids. But, see, chris, this is the situation that republicans are actually enjoying now, because from their perspective, they said, you know, democrats stuck to the tile on the senate side to carve out things for the military, why arent they taking time to carve out things for their kids. Its setting up against their own agenda and thats something i think that republicans like to see happen. We agree that they are relishing and enjoying they didnt like the first day of the shutdown, but they have loved days two and three. They love going to the world war ii memorial, love putting on lab coats, love Walking Around with stethosco stethoscopes. I dont what its going to be tomorrow i imagine well see some republicans dressed in National Guard outfits. This is perfect. This is bens point. This is a congressman from arkansas, i believe. So here are the headlines on the wic program, which is nutritional assistance for women and infant children. S there there is a republican congressman from arkansas saying, okay, lets just do funding for wic. Its like, whats the headline today thats bad about the shutdown, and then the next day, heres a mini cr to fix that thing. I think the thing that i think republicans are deluding themselves if they think this message is getting across to the American Public. I mean, look, the bottom line is, if the story is big enough to force people to dress up as doctors, to dress people to dress up in such as they were actually doctors. Im sure they pulled it right out of their closet. The stories are big enough to reach the American Public. If you look in the local papers across the country over the past couple of days, republicans are getting realmed in editorials, they are getting realmed in stories about missing women, who cannot be found because of cut backs, federal cutbacks, of people to go and search for her. This is happening across the country and republicans are deluding themselves if they think these peaiecemeal pieces e going to mean anything. If we agree that a delay in the mandate just not going to happen, whats the out here . I think thats a question that you have to ask the bulk of boehners caucus. They have to decide on what the actual victory is. But i do think that theyre going to insist on a victory. It depends on the size and the nature of that, that they are going to insist on a policy victory, which is why i think youll see a continued can kick and see continued holding to this. But why is it we did this thing last night about well, we did a thing last night about the ryan budget and how close the current sequestration levels are to the ryan budget. And the thing to me is, when i look around, i look at this as a keynesian lefty who wants to see stimulus and thinks the fact that we have all these people unemployed is absolutely a National Scandal and we have a huge demand problem. I feel like you guys already won. Ben domenech and sam seder, thank you both, gentleman. Thank you, chris. Our all in reporter has written a lot more about the impacts of the shutdown. You can check that out over on our website. A fantastic reporter. You should definitely go