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Government would remain shutdown. Todays strategy does not appear to be working. And now john boehner has to figure out what tomorrows strategy is. Put yourself in John Boehners shoes for a moment. Imagine what its like for him to wake up every morning and face the forces that are assembled against him. One simple goal. To survive another day. John boehner must find a way to placate the tea party, whose irate with any talk of negotiations not including obama care, the entirety of American Finance capitalism, that has told him he cannot blow through the debt ceiling, and then theres the American People. According to a new nbc news poll, both the gop and the tea partys favorability rating that sunk to an alltime low. And 53 of americans blame republicans in congress for the budget standoff, compared to 31 who blame the president. With those three separate interests in mind, John Boehners play is this. What we want to do is to offer the president today the ability to move. A temporary increase in the debt ceiling, an agreement to go to conference on the budget. Farright groups like Heritage Action are falling behind boehners plan, but amazingly, this is a total reversal of his strategy to focus on the debt ceiling. Importantly for boehner, however, the Tea Party Gets to keep on trying to kill obama care. When it comes to the continuing resolution, when it comes to the issues dealing with obama care, were going to continue to hold our ground. And just looking at the stock market, you can see the lords of finance are reassured. Stocks taking off. The dow posting its biggest point gain of the yore. The markets are clearly sniffing a deal. The stock market is telling us in no Uncertain Terms that they believe this deal is a foregone conclusion. So the markets rally and the government remains closed indefinitely. Because for the speaker of the house, as long as the tea party and wall street are happy, he gets to survive another day. While the Republican Party burns to the ground and the American People are subjected to prolonged, unnecessary misery. I live paychecktopaycheck and i dont know what is going to happen. So i dont know whats going to happen on the 1st. As of today, im not going to be receiving my school benefits. And without that, that does not pay for me to go to school. I get wic and i get food stamps and its going to be pretty tough. I already have enough guilt with the ptsd and things that im not over there and someone else is there in my place, and now im not being appreciated for what i have done, here. A white house statement characterized the meeting with house leadership as good, even though no specific determination was made on a path forward. President obama has repeatedly said he will entertain negotiations on anything, but only after the government is reopened. Joining me now is congressman javier bacera. Congressman, whats your reaction to the news of the day, in which the gop has issued this sixweek clean debt ceiling while the government stays shutdown and no word out of the house leadership what the status of that offer is. Chris, i think weve been watching this movie for three years now, and it doesnt have a good ending anytime. So we need to change the video. Its time to do Something Different and its time for us to get to work and do our job. We didnt get elected to shut down government. We didnt get elected to put 800,000 americans out of work. And we certainly didnt get elected to run the economy down in the ground at a time when it was finally recovering. So i think, chris, our republican colleagues should know that this is a time now to stop the game playing and get to it. I want to be clear on the position of the House Democratic leadership. What is the position of the House Democratic leadership with respect to a proposal in which the debt ceiling would be raised and that vote would be in the house, talks would initiate on the budget, while the government would stay shutdown, and all the misery and cascading problems that emanate from that would continue. What is the position of the House Democratic leadership on that proposal . Well, first, chris, weve not seen that proposal. Because the republicans have only talked about a proposal. And who knows exactly what went down in the white house. What we do know is this. The republicans did not offer the president a proposal that would put americans back to work, and that would guarantee that our economy would not slip into recession. And so, because we dont have that, im not sure if the republicans are going to put anything in writing. What democrats have always said, and there are 200 democrats ready to vote for a clean budget that lets us reopen our government and put americans back to work. And were ready to make sure that we dont default on our past debts. Were not talking about future spending. Were talking about the spending that republicans and republicans voted for to now pay for that. We need to make sure we continue forward and were ready to sit down and talk, as we always have been, about all those issues that we have to deal with to have a fiscally responsible government. Congressman, youre a veteran of politics. You know your way around this game. Have you ever seen an unforced error, a willing selfimmolation, like what the House Republican caucus has done over the last two weeks . It is astonishing. Ive never witnessed this. And quite honestly, chris, what were seeing is, a family feud thats extremely intense in the Republican Party, where the right and the far right are going at it. And of course, the victims of all of this are the 800,000 plus americans who cant go to work tomorrow. An economy thats recovering, but who knows. Will interests hike is up because of the way the republicans are treating the economy . Lets put it this way, we talk about Banana Republics as if those are the kind of governments we never want to have. I think republicans are acting like theyre part of a Banana Republic and theyre Treat America as if its some second class country. Yeah, and you know what, i wonder if this if you worry, as a member of congress, a lot of the anger right now, the polling that we have out at nbc wall street journal tonight shows that the republicans are bearing the lions share of the blame. Record disapproval of the tea party, huge margins that disapprove of their handling of this, 70 of poll respondents think theyre playing politics. And yet, you as a member of congress, are tainted by this. If you go and talk to people in diners and gas stops and subway stations, people are saying this congress, congress, the government. Do you feel like you are being tainted by this . Is it destroying the reputation of the institution . Oh, no doubt. And i can understand the publics anger. A pox on all of us. They just want us to get our work done. I wish we could have them discern whos really shutting down government, whos risking the economy, and whos not. But, again, i cant blame them, because were all part of the same place. Just like car salesman, some of the priests in the catholic church, everyone got tainted. And that broad brush is striking all of those of us who are in elected office. And thats why we had to push to get this done. And perhaps the most disappointing thing here, chris, is those republicans who say theyre ready to vote for a clean bill to fund the government to get americans back to work, but they dont come forward. And thats the most discouraging part of this. Its cowardice. We know theyre there, theyre just not coming out. Congressman behavier becerra, thanks so much for your time. Joining me now, ryan grimm. Take me through the latest here. We had a very bizarre scene after that white house meeting. There were no formal press statements by any of the parties. The House Speaker, john boehner, skedaddled out of there. There was briefly a New York Times report that the white house had rejected the offer out of hand, which sent everyone scrambling, sent futures markets and foreign stock exchanges nosediving. And now that looks like its been retracted. So where are we right now . The amount of money that changed hands globally as a response to that New York Times breaking alert, you know, must be in the billions. You know, it was walked back maybe 15 minutes to a half an hour later, but youre right, it was kind of a surreal moment, and what weve learned that came out of the meeting is that theyre going to keep talking. Like you said, republicans are going to work through the night. But theyre now focused on handling the debt ceiling. But think about where that puts them. So they had two issues that they could deal with. They could deal with the government shutting down, which is hurting people all across the country, or they could deal with a debt ceiling, which is very much perceived as a wall street kind of global elite issues. Republicans are jumping and handling that, while letting the Government Shutdown you know, conceivably, through thanksgiving. Oh, there is no better illustration of the mechanisms of power within the American Government and the Republican Party than what pressure was brought to bear. And who is powerful in this country. The women and thats potential harm that hasnt even been done yet. There is actual harm being done to millions of people a day. And that wasnt enough to change it. Heres a question to you. What do you think, from your reporting, what is the feeling of harry reid, the Senate Democratic leadership, which is the key player in this, and the white house, about this idea that you just keep the Government Shutdown, but past this debt ceiling increase, because that essentially is some sop that cuts you off from the potential worst cataclysm, but you are then negotiating with the government still shutdown, which the president has reiterated, he does not want to do. This is one of the most fascinating and leasttold parts of this story, is that the relationship between john boehner and harry reid and also, importantly, between John Boehners staff and harry reids staff, is at an absolute low. They despise each other, personally. They dont trust each other. You know, they were sniping at each other in the press recently. So theyre not working together. You know, theyre talking to other people to let each other know what theyre going to do. Now, if the house passes a clean, sixweek bill through their chamber, i dont think the senate can allow the government to default, because theyre angry at the house. But, you know, harry reid had a pretty funny remark today. He said, look, he basically said, look, im going to wait until the house produces something. He said, when i woke up, they had three different plans. Ive been at the white house for two hours and on the way back, they might have come up with a few more. And heres the if a debt ceiling passes in the house and gets passed in the senate, you take that off the board. Heres harry reid talking about any conversation happening while the governments still closed. Take a listen. Open the government, let us pay our bills, well negotiate with you about anything. They want to negotiate for you not going to happen. Is that the white houses position . That is i mean, it depends on what you mean by negotiating. I mean, they were sitting at a table this evening right, thats right. Talking about stuff. Well, they were talking about talking. I think that was prenegotiation. Msnbc contributor ryan grim, thanks for your time. Joining me now is james pethokoukis, with the American Enterprise institute, a cnbc contributor and someone i read regularly. A great pleasure to have you on the show, james. Well, youve been a critic of this strategy, from the very beginning. And i have to say the polling out tonight is pretty remarkable. And whats remarkable about it is, you have the following. Three months of everyone whos anyone in the gop center right establishment say, this is political suicide, please do not do this, this is dumb. And then the tea party went ahead and said, were doing it. And lo and behold, look at the results. Ill read you some of these poll results. Who do you think is more to blame for the shutdown, president obama, 31 , republicans in congress, 53 . 27 believe they are demonstrating strong leadership. 70 put their own political agenda ahead of what is good for the country. Do you want to scream, i told you so . If i could take that just one step further. We got those really just dreadful poll results out, and if you listen to what some of the house members, who left that meeting with the president , what they said, the only thing i can conclude is, one, obama care is more or less off the table. Any of these negotiations, because they didnt talk about it. And then, if you listen to representative lynn jenkins after that meeting, what she said was, listen, we all know the shutdown is causing a lot of pain out there. We like to get this thing ended as soon as possible, maybe monday. So, listen, they are running to reopen the government. It would be my expectation at some point next week, youre going to have republicans vote to extend the debt limit, you know, six weeks, and reopen the government. So you are saying right now, your prediction is just a complete is basically a complete declaration, declaring complete, total, abject defeat and just passing a cr and debt ceiling hike and then just saying, okay, lets talk about the budget. I think thats exactly whats going to happen. So then theyll have their budget negotiations, which arent going to go anywhere, because theres still huge disagreement thats right, because theres the same intractable problems you have with the super committee, the same intractable problems that couldnt be solved to save the nation from sequestration, theyre still there. None of that has changed. But what has changed, i would like to get your thoughts on this, what kind of pressure do you think was brought to bear on the House Republican leadership in the last 48 hours as more and more of their members started saying some truly daft and dafy things about the debt ceiling . You know what, you know, during the whole t. A. R. P. Debate back in 2008, wall street kept calling hank paulson with the exact same message, this is a catastrophe, you need to do something. The exact same message thats coming from wall street this time around. This is a catastrophe, you have to do something. And the interviews over the weekend, with some republican congressmen who said, listen, its not that big a deal. Listen, the debt default would actually bring stability. Well, today, decisively, wall street rejected that argument. Because when it looked like they were going to avoid a debt limit problem, the market went up 300 points. Do you think theres a change in the shift of the balance of power here, between, you know, for lack of a better word, the wall street wing of the party and the kind of ted cruz, animated Tea Party Caucus in the house . Well, listen, i think the fact is that wall street has really had the facts on their side. That always helps in an argument. It really does. That the consequences, i know youve been highlighting some of the pain the shutdown has caused, but the consequences from a debt default would be far worse and they would be global. So that is a very powerful argument. Of course, the problem from a messaging standpoint now that to do this 180 and say, okay, lets get the debt ceiling out of our way and lets keep the Government Shutdown, is the point ryan grim made, and its a point were going to be making throughout the show, yes, i agree, i do not want us to reach the debt ceiling, it would be possibly catastrophic. But when wall street calls and says, dont do this, you answer the phone and dont do it. Meanwhile, youve got the parks shut down, people kicked off wic, its not a very good image to put forth to the gop. I think you saw that in the polls. And one thing representative jenkins said after she came out of that meeting was, we know theres a lot of pain. Theyre hearing it from their constituents. I know its not the entire government, its part of the government, but the republican congressmen are getting a lot of grief back home about it. James pethokoukis from the American Enterprise institute, thanks a lot. Thank you. Coming up a special place with me, being connected so heavy in ag, still farming some. When i go home, i dont get to do a lot of physical labor, but im still around and many, many friends and relative who is still farm. And it does have a special place. That was congressman Steven Fincher, republican from tennessee. And what he doesnt say there is even when hes not farming, the government is paying him lots of money to do it. Thats helped earn him a place in our new special all in feature, these are the people who are running our country. Dont want to miss this one. Stay with us. So style is my thing. And im not gonna let my period get in the way of what i want to wear [ female announcer ] tampax radiant protects 30 better and comes with a resealable wrapper for discreet disposal. Mix and match your protection with the whole radiant collection. You know by now we love hearing from you on facebook and twitter. For tonights question, i want to ask you to play armchair psychologist, which is always fun. What piece of advice would you give to House Speaker john boehner . Tweet your answers to allinwithchris or post on facebook at all in with chris. Ill share a couple after the show. Stay tuned. Tra mile. Tra mile. To treat my low testosterone, i did my research. 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Ask your doctor about the only underarm low t treatment, axiron. Speaker john boehner may feel like hes up against the wall every day, but he is at least getting a paycheck. There are nearly 500,000 people who are not. They are on day ten. And the latest republican offer seems to assume that those people will be furloughed for at least another six weeks. Think about what would happen to your household if you went the next six weeks without a paycheck. Thats not to mention the toll this shutdown continues to take on the thing we often refer to simply as the government. For instance, the Nuclear Regulatory commission has now temporarily closed, due to the Government Shutdown, 3,900 employees furloughed, onsite inspectors, and a small Emergency Response staff remain on duty. According to the nrc chairman, i guess thats reassuring. Meanwhile, the furloughchallenged usda is investigating a californiabased poultry producer, because in three of its four plants, there is evidence of salmonella. This after a recent salmonella outbreak. Hope the shutdown doesnt hamper that investigation. There are also private Sector Workers temporarily out of work, because their employers relay on government contracts, their numbers could easily reach the thousands and there is no guarantee that they will receive backpay. Joining me now is la shantay austin, who works at the statue of liberty, larry eagle, with the union who represents workers at the statue of liberty. And ashanti, youre a furloughed worker, if im not mistaken. Yes, i am. And what do you do . I work security. We screen all the visitors going into the statue of liberty. My understanding is you guys got whacked by sandy. There was a long period of time you were out of work because of the storm. Yes, we were out of work for nine months. All of the equipment and everything got destroyed. So when you were out of work, were you getting a paycheck, were you on unemployment . I was on unemployment, but it, you know, it wasnt enough to pay all of the bills. So we were behind back then and then here comes july, and were out of work again. I mean, came back in july then you get a few months under your belt, getting your paycheck, doing your job, screening visitors, people are coming, and now this. Now this, yes. What does this mean for your family . Youre going to miss a paycheck, another one, three, four . Im not going to be able to pay for bread, got to put food on the table. I cant tell the bill collectors, you know, sorry, the government is shutdown, i cant pay you, you know . They have a job to do, theyve got to collect their money. And you know, it gets hard. So what are you going to do about the rent . At this point, ive applied for unemployment. Im not sure if im going to get that money. So i really dont know. How long can you take this . I really dont know. Its its hard. It gets stressful. You really dont know whats going to happen. How do you feel about congress right now . I just wish theyd come to an agreement so that we can all move on and get pack to work. You represent a bunch of workers that are in lashantes situation. People have an image of government workers, that theyre sort of, you know, theyre somehow vultures on the taxpayer, that theyre making lots of money, theyre pulling down paychecks, theyre pushing papers around. What do the workers you represent, what are the kinds of work theyre doing and what are their Economic Conditions . Our local represents largely janitors, office cleaners, food sfs workers, apartment house workers. We have nearly a thousand members who work cleaning or securing federal facilities, like the national archives, the department of labor, like lashantes site. These folks can make 14, 15 an hour, 19 an hour, or less. It depends on the location. Folks working hard, doing the basic work that keeps the offices and the government running. And people who cannot, like lashante said, get by without getting a paycheck. People are struggling to make it even at those wages, week to week, and we really need the republicans to wake up and do their job, like lashante has been doing her job, so people can get to work. Republicans turn around and they say, look, we passed a bill to open up the National Parks, head start, wic, whatever you want. We open up these small parts of government that are hurting people. Were not heartless. What do you say to that . I say we have a congress, we have a institutional system that functions. There was obligations incurred. They need to meet their obligations, they need to step up, they need to do their job, they need to stop walking on regular people who are suffering because they are playing games in washington for their own political, tactical reasons. This is america, we dont treat people that way. They need to step up and do the right thing. What are you telling your friends and family about this situation . How do you explain the fact that you are now not working . You cant really explain it. You know, because were regular people. You know, we live day to day, paycheck to paycheck. So it gets hard. You cant really explain that, you know, i cant do this, because i dont have money to go out or youre not the only one who cant explain this. Basically no one can explain why the heck the government is shutdown right now. Thank you both for your time. Appreciate it. Well be right back with click three. Coming up, as promised, tonight well present another chapter in our ongoing saga, these are the people who are running the country, where we go indepth on the members of congress who are holding the government hostage until they get their way about whatever it is theyve decided they want today. But first, i want to share the three awesomest things on the internet today. We begin with a food fight of fancy. We begin with comedian patten oswald, a click three favorite, often has fun at the expense of our collective appetites, notably in a bit about the black angus steakhouse, where he remembers a ridiculously over the top menu. At black angus, well start you off with our appetizer platter, featuring five jumbo deepfried gulf shrimp, served on a disc of salted butter, with 15 of our potato bacon bombs and a red pork cracklings with our cheese and butter dipping sauce. Every ingredient in oswalds bit brought to life by eric bloomenstein who made every menu in oswalds routine, including the bacon and cheese soup with five heads of iceberg lettuce, in 18 pounds of ranch dressing as well as the bottomless trough of fried dough. But this was the master stroke. Because then well bring out our 55ounce heman steak slab, served with a deepfried pumpkin stuffed with buttered scallops and 53 of our potato bacon balls. And there was this one, labeled the gravy pipe. Can go this was a bachelor pipe, we dont want to know what this was used for. And a changeup for face swaps. You know what face swaps are. Two faces, each one get swaps, become a staple of the viral culture. So much so that anyone with basic photo shop skills can do a face shop. Theyll bring us 40 face swaps that dont even make sense. And these are some truly bizarre mindbending face swaps that turn the genera in on itself, like this guy with his dog, normally, this photo shop did a full shirt swap as well. Youre treated to a surreal world of things that dont belong in the place. Sometimes random objects replacing peoples smiles. So whoever the twin citiesed photoshoppers were, who made these face swaps, were glad theyve breathed new life into a time waster weve always loved. And the third awesomest thing on the internet today, theres nothing like the honesty of a toddler, i can tell you firsthand. A redit user posted a Youtube Video of a parent making a covert training of potty training a 3yearold. The result is internet gold. You can stop the recording. There as the little tyke begins listing the itinerary of what he eat. We should all be glad that young people of the world will gain an understanding of their dietary limits. You can find all the links for tonights click three on our website, all in with chris. Com. Well be right back. [ male announcer ] no matter what city youre playing tomorrow. [ coughs ] [ male announcer ] you cant let a cold keep you up tonight. Vicks nyquil powerful nighttime 6symptom cold flu relief. [ unr ass [ female announcer ] e people like to pretend a flood could never happen to them. And that their Homeowners Insurance protects them. [ thunder crashes ] it doesnt. Stop pretending. Only Flood Insurance covers floods. Visit floodsmart. Gov pretend to learn your risk. As we promised you we would every night of the shutdown, we are back with another installment of our new all in feature, where we take a closer look at the very small group of men and women in congress who have shut down the government. Now, after last nights installment, i said this. Tune in next time when we take a look at california congressman, doug la molfa, who received millions of dollars in farm subsidies while supporting billions of dollars in cuts to food stamp benefits. We started to take a look another another congressman who did the exact same thing, and is arguably even more hypocritical. He improbably beat 22year incumbent democratic tanner in 2010. Tonights installment of these are the people who are running the country, i bring you Steven Fincher, congressman from tennessees eighth district. Hi, oim congressman Steven Fincher from frog jump, tennessee. Reporter frog jump, tennessee, a tiny town about 75 miles north of memphis that nurtured the views of steve fincher, a man who spent his years before congress far away from politics. He was a farmer, he was part of a local gospel circuit, singing with the family foursome. And he was on the government dole. Since 1995, fincher and his wife have received federal government payments of almost 3. 5 million for their farm, but taxpayer dollars flowing into the fincher household did not stop him from mounting a david and goliath battle against the scourge of big government. We are forgetting that the administration that we have in office now thinks that the federal government knows best and theyre the answer. Theyre not the answer. Reporter and he made good on that promise by cutting 40 billion from the food stamp program. And to justify it, he cited scripture. I looked at second thessalonians 3 10, that even when we are with you, we gave you this rule, the one not willing to work shall not eat. Reporter this was once part of the same bill in which fincher voted for farm subsidies, that he benefited from as a sitting member of congress. Last year alone, he pocketed more than 70,000 from farm subsidies, which is nearly double his states median household income. In fact, his income last year was 174,000, and thats before the subsidies. In 2012, he won reelection with nearly 70 of the vote. And the reason why the congressman justified his vote against food stamps we have to remember, theres not a big Printing Press in washington that just continually prints money over and over and over. Reporter there is, in fact, just that. Located on c street and 14th street, a short walk from the capitol. Unlike farm subsidies, congressman fincher presumably has no use for obama care subsidies, which is why it was subsidies, which is why it was no surprise that when the letter was circulated this summer, demanding that john boehner use the threat of a Government Shutdown to defund obama care, announcement of the plan allowed the president to sign legislation reopening the entire federal government with funding for all agencies. This plan illustrates what we have been saying all along. Announcement of the plan allowed the president to sign legislation reopening the entire federal government with funding for all agencies. This plan illustrates what we have been saying all along. That you can balance the budget in seven years, and protect medicare, medicaid, education, and the environment and provide tax relief to working families. That was bill clinton, officially announcing the federal government was headed back to work, after a shutdown lasting a recordsetting 21 days. That sad record is now in peril, as republicans seem to be pursuing a strategy of essentially indefinite shutdown. Their latest plan would raise the debt ceiling for six weeks, while the country continues to suffer the mounting consequences of having a massive chunk of their government rendered inoperable. This is really quite something, from the party that cast itself as champion of american exceptionalism. The one whose 2012 president ial nominee wrote a book, arguing the case for american greatness. I believe in america. I believe in the freedom and opportunity, and the principles of our constitution, that have led us to become the greatest nation in the history of the earth. Todays gops motto is less were number one, and more, embrace the suck. You can see the roots of this in the 2012 campaign, when mitt romney dismissed Dangerous Levels of income inequality in this country, by insisting, its only fine to talk about those things in quiet rooms. It spread from d. C. To the entire gop political culture, a country with more than 11 Million People out of work and very little coming out of washington designed to get them back on the job. And you can see it growing throughout this year, when the gop successfully convincing americans to make peace with sequestration, a cut to Government Spending that was originally designed to be so painful to americans that Neither Party would ever accept it. Now, on top of endemic inequality and austerity, the gop is pitching the country on the idea of getting accustomed to the federal government just being shut down indefinitely. Instead of dealing with the most pressing problems this country faces, americas lawmakers are simply trying to figure out how to authorize funding for meat inspectors and cancer trials. This is the normalization of diminished expectations. And it is being led by the party that has long claimed ownership of the idea of american greatness. So how do they respond when challenged on their tactics . Were not french. At least the french can keep the lights on. Joining me now is ben domenech, lynn parramore, and msnbc contributor, james peterson. Great to have you all here. We have to start with this polling, because i think it connects precisely to this kind of bizarre age of diminished expectations that we live in, and that i think the gop, from a strictly, like messaging standpoint, is doing a terrible job on. I mean, heres the american views of the parties if the new nbc poll. Negative, 40 for the democrats, 39 are positive, essentially split. Republican party right now is at 53 negative and 23 positive, thats 30 points underwater. Ben, youve written a lot about kind of reforming the party. What i cannot tell. What is this partys message to the middle class right now in this moment . Well, i dont think the party could answer that question for you themselves. You know, partially from the fact that they have essentially accepted an approach that i tries to get into this normal washington game of trading austerity on one hand for benefits and changes to law on the other. Theyre not actually presenting a holistic sort of approach that would speak to the needs of the middle class and that would also speak to the sort of rising inequality that youre talking about. And frankly, in the context of the sequester and the other things that you mentioned, they look very much like a party that is seeking a point of leverage that doesnt exist, essentially. What do you mean by that . I think that essentially, you know, you had the leadership advancing the idea that they should fight on the debt ceiling. You had conservatives advancing the idea that they should fight on Government Shutdown. Neither of these points are actually strong in terms of leveraging anything Going Forward, and i think that you compare it back to sort of the points where it was leveraged effectively under reagan and h. W. Bush, and in both of those cases, there was a committed leadership that had a message Going Forward that they were strongly behind. Theyve been all over the place. And amazingly, the idea that we are in this horrible jobs crisis in the country continue to be, which if you were karl rove, if you were counseling the republicans on what their best political tactic is, is that this recovery is not producing gains for ordinary working people, which it should, and we never talk about that. Thats right. And i like to call this the new abnormal. Because, really, what is normal about so many about talking about cutting Government Spending when we have so many unused resources in this country, when we have so many people out of work. What is normal about a Fallen Service members family not being able to get death benefits, about the cdc not being able to respond to a salmonella outbreak. These things might be normal in guatemala, but not in the united states. We will get angry emails from guatemala, and will deserve it. I want to talk about how we rebel against the kind of normalization of this. Because i do think its kind of dangerous. Well get to that right after this break. Has a hidensity cor. And that means more fuel, more power, more performance than the next leading brand. New duracell quantum. Trusted everywhere. New duracell quantum. Life could be hectic. As a working mom of two young boys angies list saves me a lot of time. After reading all the reviews i know im making the right choice. Online or on the phone, we help you hire right the first time. With honest reviews on over 720 local services. Keeping up with these two is more than a full time job, and i dont have time for unreliable companies. Angies list definitely saves me time and money. For over 18 years weve helped people take care of the things that matter most. Join today. Earlier in the show we asked you what bit of advice you would give House Speaker john boehner. We got a lot of answers posted to our facebook and twitter pages, like, fitsuhsimmons advises him to just let go and have a good old cry. And marc cook asked, why is you keeping your job more important and one of the reasons for that, martha, i think, is that the shutdown has turned out to be much less about much less to do about than people thought. I mean, its about, by one calculation, its only about 17 closed. And so you see some conspicuous signs of it in National Parks and so on, which you can tell the administration is trying as hard as it can, to make as difficult as possible, but its just not that big a deal, as it turns out. Nbc poll, have you or your family been affected by the shutdown . Yes, have been affected, 31 . No, have not been affected, 68 . Were back. James, i think one of the things thats fascinating about this poll is the amount of people that say they are being affected, was what happened in sequestration, when we kind of ran this experiment the first time, was there was a lot of coverage of the effects of it and we covered and it affected people, it affected researchers and it affected people in head start. It affected people. But it was sort of out of sight, out of mind. It did not move public opinion. That is not the case here. Its not. And i think what we have to kind of acknowledge here, and i believe that that our political spectrum has been moving steadily to the right. The kinds of things that as a public were willing to tolerate now are really indicative of that. We talk about austerity, but im not sure some people understand what that mean. Some of the sequestration cuts, over time, will take effect. As we move into next year. Same thing with the shutdown. The longer we stay shut down, the more effect and more impact it will have. And at the end of the day, i dont know if theres any rhyme or reason on the other side, right . I think youre searching for like a rationale to it or some kind of like reasoning behind what theyre doing. And the reason why there isnt that is because its a fragmented party. And the special interests are controlling certain parts of it. And theyre, essentially, sort of entitled to the votes and to the policies of political what is the rhyme and reason i think the rhyme and reason is what youre seeing as a party that has lost the ability on the part of respected wise men, of elected officials and of traditional groups to sort of be a moderating force within the party, and to, at the same time, youve had the growth of institutions that can outweigh them, even surpass them you mean money . Essentially, ted cruz doesnt care what people who are sort of outside of the who are in the typical sort of republican hierarchy think of him, because he has a massive following of people who will give him small dollar donations that will offset all of it. And one of the things that i think that speaks to, you talk about that becoming abnormal, i think this is going to become the new normal, because of the degree of distrust we see that, to me, is unfortunate. And this is the nasty part of this whole thing. Is that i think at the end of the day, in the shortterm, you can say the Democratic Party from a political perspective is winning this battle. I think the polling shows us, the president is winning this battle. I think anytime, frankly, you have a guy who gets elected by a few hundred thousand voters, john boehner, and a guy who got 55 Million People to vote for him, the guy who got 55 Million People to vote for him is going to win. At least in the polls. At least in the polls. Yeah. Barack obama is a better politician and a more appealing person than theres also a century of politics that has taught the American People that when government shuts down, republicans hate government and liberals love government. You end up in the situation where the natural blame is always going to go towards the party that hates government, being ant and let me say this. Thats why it was such a preposterous farce for them to try to pull a 180 and start funding these mini crs, we want to Fund Head Start and fund you have not accrued the capital to be able to pull that oh, of course, the Tea Party Caucus loves wic. Come on this is also people disconnecting from politics in certain ways. How can you not be cynical when a few days ago, people were saying, you cant default on the debt, you cant, no way, its not possible. Now were in this chicken race with the president to try to figure out how we can resolve the problem. And the bottom line is really the economy. People are figuring out this is not good for the economy. Although i said to myself this afternoon, some of these tea partyers dont even understand how the female reproductive system works, so asking them to understand the Global Economy is too much. But it is the economy. You dont pull back on Government Investment at a time when the economys very weak. You talked about the new normal, dont you think theres an acceptance on the American Peoples part of this bad economy, that theyre coming around to the idea that theres Nothing Better out there. Let me just hang a lantern on that. That is a profound point and it plays in all sorts of bizarre ways. It always struck me in the 2012 election that mitt romney was doing best when he was critiquing the nature of the obama recovery. Even if you dont think barack obama is actually responsible for it, his best message was always, theres a lot of people out of work, a lot of people longterm unemployed, wages arent rising, but he could never convincingly make that case or stick with it. At the same time, chris, we havent been able to make the case that this government has been shedding jobs for the First Time Since weve had a recovery and a recession. 600,000 down, by the way. The new normal is americans are disconnected from the political system because the congress is not representative of americans. Lets be frank here. In the 2010 elections, a lot of people were frustrated the recovery hasnt come to their neighborhood yet and they thought, what has government really done for me, and the democrats do hold some responsibility for that. Were reaping the awards i believe that the democrats were more representative of the coalition that reelected president obama, which is more progressive on almost every issue in the Democratic Party, yes, you would have better levels of engagement in terms of politics. I feel like democrats are offering a solution that says, look, we dont necessarily know how to make this recovery better, so well try to make your life suck less. But republicans are saying, this recovery sucks, but we dont actually have a policy republicans know how to make it better, theres just too much obstruction and disconnection between the American People. But at the heart of this is, lets lower taxes for rich people. Thats part of whats going to be the fight thats getting set up. But heres what was perverse today. You had the polling, 75 saying wrong track, which chuck todd pointed out really astutely. He said, thats the highest number weve seen since lehman. And what were seeing is a political great recession. They were the most unpopular congress in 2011, and the most unpopular congress in 2012, and theyre the most unpopular congress today. You can only go from 14 to 12 to 10 in terms of approval. Theyre unrepresented but at the same time, heres whats really perverse. The fight switched from the debt ceiling to the cr today, because the financial leap called john boehner and said, do not do this, and here, take a look at the stock market rally. You have this huge rally just on the hope. On the hope that it would happen. Heres what happened. Lashante came into our studio and know one is delivering her from this. What ended up happening was, when push came to shove, wall street got john boehner to go up there and be like, im not going to do this. Thats the problem. The medical device tax. Yes you had a great tweet on this. You said, we need a more populist party thats in touch with the needs of the middle class. Okay, heres chained cpi is and the medical device tax. Thats like everything. And thats why, to get to the final point were making now, in the longterm, whatever shortterm gains there are for the democrats the here tonight, in the longterm, what this does is it erodes peoples sense of any kind of representative institution. Which is the strategy, right . Its a strategy of attrition. Cynicism and disgust. That way its easier and ultimately its going to play of a vindication of model partisan approaches to policy. Thats the only point you see significant policy. Ben donovich, thank you very much. That is all in for this evening

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