Is some hope at this hour of a deal to reopen the government, raise the debt ceiling and put an end to this ugly, unnecessary crisis. 14 days into a Government Shutdown, the timeliness to avoid possible economic calamity just three days is truly unforgiven, given the sheer mechanics of getting something passed through both houses of Congress Even after a deal is finally reached. Senate majority leader harry reid and Senate Minority leader Mitch Mcconnell spent the day inching closer to a deal after house leaders were unable to arrive at something the president could accept. Weve made tremendous progress. We are not there yet, but tremendous progress, and everyone just needs to be patient. Perhaps tomorrow will be a bright day. Were not there yet. We hope it will be. Let me echo the remarks of the majority leader. Weve had a good day, had a good day yesterday, had another good day today. I think its safe to say weve made substantial progress. That rare display of bipartisan harmony. The very latest pronouncement from reid and mcconnell about negotiations came just about 90 minutes ago. Earlier today, the duo engaged in a similar attempt at soothing everyones collective nerves. Im very optimistic that we will reach an agreement thats reasonable in nature this week. I deeply appreciate my friend, the minority leader, for his diligent efforts to come to an agreement. Let me just echo the remarks of my good friend, the majority leader. Weve had an opportunity over the last couple of days to have some very constructive exchanges of views about how to move forward. A 3 00 p. M. Meeting between president obama and congressional leaders was postponed so that negotiations between reid and mcconnell could proceed. However, mcconnell did meet with Speaker Boehner for nearly a half hour, and mcconnell will meet with Senate Republicans tomorrow morning to review the emerging agreement. Here are the contours of the deal as we know them. Reopening the government and funding it through january 15th, lifting the debt ceiling through february 7th, requiring a budget conference report in which both houses would come together to negotiate a budget by december 13th, and flexibility for agencies to implement budget cuts from sequestration. There may be some other aspects of the deal well get into. This deal comes after democrats rejected a plan crafted by republican senator susan collins, in part because it would have extended sequestration level budget well into 2014. There is at least recent precedent for mcconnell and reid striking a deal the white house signs off on, a deal that Speaker Boehner then brings to a vote in the house, despite the opposition of a majority of republicans. It happened on the fiscal cliff and it happened on sandy aid. Of course, the great irony is that if that is how this ultimately plays out, it could have happened two weeks ago. If Speaker Boehner had brought the senates shortterm budget to a vote in the house, it very likely would have passed. Meanwhile, as the shutdown continues, republicans continue to pay a steep political price for their intransigence. The latest poll putting their disapproval numbers at 74 compared to democrats in congress at 61 and president obama at 53 . Joining me now is congressman scott ridgel, a republican from virginia. And, congressman, as far as you can tell, given the details emerging from the mcconnell and reid deal, is that something you can imagine the House Republican caucus voting for . Well, chris, like so many things that come my way up here in washington, its not actually exactly what id like, but, look, the pressure and the pain is very real from this shutdown. Its hurting the virginia 2nd congressional district, its hurting our country, and i really think the fight, to the extent there is a fight, and there is one, should really be about overall funding of our government and not the debt limit. And so, i would, based on what i know, i would support it, based on what i know. You, sir, are an outlier. You are, if im not mistaken, the only republican in the house to vote against the defunding of obama care in this last round that caused the shutdown, a vote that i happen to agree with, but if you were going to vote for this, that doesnt necessarily tell us where the heart of the House Republican caucus is. My question to you is, what is the sense you get from your colleagues . Is there communication happening in the House Republican caucus right now about this emerging deal . Not yet. There certainly will be tomorrow morning. And, chris, let me be clear, you know, i dont support what i really believe is the unaffordable care act and i voted no on that first continuing resolution because of my just absolute repudiation of how we dont budget up here, continuing resolutions hurt our country. Whats really needed is for us to get through this, to have a shortterm solution, but really, i think every member of congress, member of the house or the senate, should be required to answer this question what specific plan do you support to get ahold of our longterm spending . I have a plan. Its the America First plan. I offered it last week. And whats largely absent up here is specificity, because people are so afraid of grabbing something. This has bipartisan appeal, it has things that democrats like and things that republicans will like, and it also has things that both parties will object to, which means i think that were on the right track. Well, i want to talk about the sort of budget negotiations that may come in a second, but first of all, if it comes to pass, a deal is hammered out in the senate along the lines of what weve seen so far, it goes to the house and if it comes to pass that john boehner brings it to the floor for an open vote, which is an open question, and if it comes that it passes, what will you and the Republican Party tell your constituents about what the heck the purpose of this shutdown was . Well, chris, the first day of the shutdown, i sent out this tweet, and i knew it would put us in maybe an odd position, but i knew it was the right one. I said, look, its time for a clear cr. Heres why. I looked out as best as one could and said how does this look day 3, day 6, day 12, indeed, day 14 . It didnt look good to me, and our objective became muddier, and i didnt think itd be good for our conference or our country. So, im not happy with this process that weve been through, so i think your points well taken there, but i mean the answer to that is, theres nothing to tell constituents because nothing was genuinely gained from this. Well, you know, if were going to take the American People through a very painful process of not funding the government, look, its not that im unwilling. And i understand the full ramifications of it, chris. This has real impact on real families all across america. You know some are furloughed, and they know theyre going to get their pay when they come back. A lot of families are not in that situation. I mean, theyre flat out unemployed. 900,000 jobs have, you know, are estimated to have been lost because of this whole thing. I mean, this is deeply troubling. But whats equally troubling is our failure as a country and this institution and the president to agree upon a longterm plan that slows down the growth of mandatory spending. You will not get any argument from me that the shortterm government by cr is no way to go. Congressman scott rigell of virginia. Thank you so much. Joining me now is congressman chris van hollen, Ranking Member of the house budget committee. And the first question to you, congressman, is is john boehner going to bring this to a vote . If the contours of the deal are the ones that were reporting, and id be curious if house leadership is being read into this, which dont do much to obama care, theres some talk about one tax being delayed for a year, relatively small in the scheme of things, some stronger Income Verification possibly, a few things around the edges, if thats the contours of the deal, then is john boehner going to bring it for a vote . And if you bring this to a vote, why didnt he just bring it to a vote two weeks ago . Well, chris, thats obviously the big question. First, i should say we dont know all the details of this agreement. We believe that we should have a clean cr and a clean debt ceiling extension. The dates you talked about are the dates that i think have been under discussion, but we dont think you should have the extraneous provisions, even the socalled medical device tax, which would add to the deficit if you get rid of that. So, were really focused on clean measures. But the big question is the one you posed, will Speaker Boehner bring this up . We know that he has refused to bring up the legislation thats before the house right now, which would immediately reopen the government, and we have the votes between republicans and democrats to do it. So, will he be willing to bring up this larger agreement . And this is the moment of truth for john boehner, because on the one hand stands his reckless tea party caucus, and hes been feeding that beast all along, thinking that theyd be satisfied, but, in fact, theyve just gotten stronger and more demanding, or will he stand up for the good of the country . And, look, when the countrys on the edge of default and the country continues to be in Government Shutdown, you would hope he would stand up for the good of the country. Congressman, i want to play a piece of tape of you having an exchange with one of your republican colleagues in the house about the rules. And its a piece of tape that went viral this weekend, because it looks a little bit like a smoking gun on the shutdown. Im going to play it and ask you to explain what was happening. Take a look. This standing rule of the house, which i have here, has been altered by the house. Is that what the speakers saying . The house adopted a resolution altering. The rules committee under the rules of the house changed the standing rules of the house to take away the right of any member to move to vote to open the government and gave that right exclusively to the republican leader. Is that right . The house adopted that resolution. So, you were pointing out a change to the rules. What were the change to the rules, and what effect did they have . Yeah, chris, this is really important, because i think people realize now that Speaker Boehner, you know, shut down the government and has refused to allow a vote. What people are learning now is that the republicans on october 1st, in the middle of the night, actually changed the rules of the house in order to keep the government shut down, because under the standing rules of the house, in the particular circumstance were in, where theres a disagreement between the house and the senate, the regular rules of the house would allow any member, republican or democrat, myself or anybody else, to call up the senate bill which would immediately reopen the entire government. Republicans realized that, and so they changed the rule so that the republican leader would have that exclusive right. In other words, they took a right that belonged to any member of congress and gave it exclusively to eric cantor or his designee. Just so were clear, they understood that a vote to reopen the government would pass the house. They did not want it to happen. They wanted to keep the shutdown going because they saw it as leverage, and so, they rewrote the rules of the house of representatives to make sure only eric cantor or someone he said could bring up the senate bill to reopen the government because they were so terrified that any member bringing that to the floor would pass it and reopen the government . Thats exactly what happened. I mean, they were afraid of the democratic process, because they can count. That is the smoking gun. And the big question now is, whatever deal comes out of the senate, the thing were going to watch and hopefully we can get you back here to talk about it is does Speaker Boehner bring it for a vote . Congressman chris van hollen, of maryland, thank you for joining us. Good to be with you. Joining me now is Richard Costa with the National Review and cnbc contributor. So the big question today, robert, is Mitch Mcconnell is working out a deal with harry reid, weve seen this before, and the way this has ended up is john boehner going to the house floor to bring up a vote on something that he does not have a ton of republican support for and that passing with democratic votes. Are we headed down that road again . Chris, i just met with some House Republicans this evening on capitol hill, and i asked for predictions about what Speaker Boehner would do tomorrow, especially when House Republicans meet for their Conference Meeting in the basement of the capitol, and they think because now the senate is brokering a deal, they think boehner is not ready to come to the conference and ask them to accept it. The deal isnt even finalized. So, House Republicans as of now, based on my reporting, are looking at sending their own package back to the senate. If they do that, of course, lets keep in mind, this is precisely what happened with the continuing resolution. It is precisely the series of events that have led us to the shutdown, which continues to this moment, and yet, we are doing this up against a very, very different kind of deadline with the debt ceiling just three days away. Heres the mindset in the house, especially among republicans and conservatives, boehner has to exhaust all of his ammunition, and that includes sending Something Back to the senate, perhaps on tuesday or wednesday, before finally, perhaps, at the 11th hour, the 11th hour, he embraces some kind of senate compromise. So, this is essentially political theatrics, i mean, meaning, john boehner has to show to his caucus he fought until the last second before the clock ticked over and the world Financial Markets went into disarray, in order to be able to save face with his caucus, thats what youre saying. This isnt exactly a new story. Weve seen since Speaker Boehner decided to adopt the ted cruz strategy, to push for a defunding obama care. Weve seen Speaker Boehner very much work in sync with the right flank of the house. He is not acting as an independent operator. I think thats a misconception about Speaker Boehner. When you watch him in action every day, this is someone who is an independent thinker, used to be a committee chairman, but when it comes to being speaker of the house, he very much walks in step with the right. I want to play a clip for you of Sheldon Whitehouse saying why hes untroubled by a temporary continuing resolution and a temporary raising of the debt ceiling for only four months because he thinks republicans have learned a political lesson from this. Listen. The republicans, and particularly the tea party republicans, really burned their hands on this hot stove, and the idea that in january theyre going to want to grab it again and burn themselves all over again doesnt seem very likely. I think they learned a lesson from the damage that they did to our country with this latest stunt. Do you think hes right . Partially. I think republicans privately look at the poll numbers and they see 74 of americans are dissatisfied with the way theyre operating. Theyre aware of that. Theyre aware of the constituent calls coming in. But because of the way the conservative movement operates today and the way it influences the Republican Party, if Speaker Boehner does embrace the senate deal, youre still going to see many, many House Republicans oppose it because it does not include provisions related to obama care. And the biggest question i think is are the outside groups, heritage action, for instance, who pushed the whole defense of obama care strategy, will the entire sort of machinery of Movement Conservatism then crank itself up for another one of these fights in four months because they didnt need to go through this to understand this would be unpopular the first time around. Robert costa from the National Review, thank you so much for your time tonight. Thank you. Coming up this country isnt ran by just one individual. Its ran by four branches, but three branches that are in control of this. Our feature, these are the people who are running the country, continues tonight with this guy, a u. S. Congressman who thinks we have four branches of government. Well be right back. Kes you dift is what makes us different. We take the time to get to know you and your unique health needs. Then we help create a personalized Healthcare Experience that works for you. And you. And you. With 50 years of knowhow, and a dedicated network of doctors, health coaches, and wellness experts, were a partner you can rely on today, and tomorrow. Were going beyond insurance to become your partner in health. Humana. Because an empty pan is a blank canvas. [ woman 2 ] to share a moment. [ man 1 ] to remember my grandmother. [ woman 3 ] to show my love. [ woman 4 ] because life needs flavor. [ woman 5 ] to travel the World Without leaving home. [ male announcer ] whatever the reason. Whatever the dish. Make it delicious with swanson. [ woman 1 ] thats why i cook. If you think a twitter account and watch this show, you probably know by now i tweet, often, and like twitter because its a direct line of communication. You tweet at me, i tweet at you. Thats exactly what i intend to do tomorrow, 9 00 p. M. Eastern right after the show. Ill be taking over the all in account for 30 minutes after tomorrow nights show to answer any questions you might have for me. So, please, hang out with me tomorrow night at 9 00 p. M. Eastern on twitter. Ron im sorry, who are you . Jc im your coworker cmon guys. Im driving. Hey, you guys comfortable . Its bestinclass rear legroom. And with a turbo engine that gets 35 highway mpg. You know j. D. Power ranked passat the most appealing midsize car two years in a row . I bet, uh, dan here wishes somebody found him most appealing two years in a row. Ron its ron jc ron. Exactly. Vo get 0 down, 0 due at signing, 0 deposit, and 0 first months payment on passat or any new 2014 volkswagen. Im bethand im michelle. And we own the paper cottage. Its a stationery and gifts store. Anything we purchase for the paper cottage goes on our ink card. So you can manage your business expenses and access them online instantly with the Game Changing app from ink. We didnt get into business to spend time managing receipts, thats why we have ink. We like being in business because we like being creative, we like interacting with people. So you have time to focus on the things you love. Ink from chase. So you can. If no deal is reached in congress, america may hit its debt limit just three days from now, which very likely means default, possibly financial chaos and chaos for the world economy. But a bunch of republicans have this new line. Theyre saying dont worry about it. Once the government can no longer pay all its bills, all it needs to do is prioritize who it pays so pa bond holders come first, and that way, theres no default and everything will be fine. Theres no reason for us to default. We bring in 250 billion in taxes every month. Our Interest Payment is 20 billion. Tell me why we would ever default . I would dispel the rumor that is going around that you hear on every newscast that if we dont raise the debt ceiling, we will default on our debt. We wont. Well continue to pay our interest. We are not going to default from the public debt, but that doesnt mean that we have to pay every bill the day it comes in, 100 cents on the dollar. In fact, House Republicans even passed a bill in may called the full faith and credit act, requiring the treasury to prioritize payments to creditors, rather than, say, medicaid payments to doctors, in the event of a debt ceiling breach. This bill requires, not allows, requires treasury to continue to pay principal and interest on existing debt if and only if we hit the debt ceiling before a deal is reached. This is a backstop that takes default off the table. Now in isolation, that sounds almost reasonable, doesnt it . Its not. Its nonsense, and heres why. Think for just a second about how massively complicated it is to deal with all of the money flowing through the United States government every single day. Youve got intakes like payroll taxes and bond purchases coming in and all sorts of money going out, interest to bondholders, Social Security payments, even payroll checks to members of congress. The treasury is literally processing millions of invoices every day, and its got an Automated System that does this processing on computers dozens of times per second, and these computers are designed to make each payment in the order it comes due. There are no builtin mechanisms to pick and choose. Yet, what republicans are saying is to undo this entire Automated System, which its not even clear this could be done legally it may well be illegal to forgo payment to a defense contractor so you can pay a chinese bond holder the next day, but more importantly, its just not doable. I mean, it means asking the federal government to disrupt a sprawling, massive Payment System that involves multiple interacting Computer Systems and agencies. Take a second to consider the thought process here. The same people who cast the government as incompetent and useless, the same people who have been delighting in the stories of the longplanned Health Care Exchanges central to obama care beset with glitches and failures, those same people believe the Treasury Department can take, perhaps, the most complicated Payment System in the world, the one processing millions of payments a day, trillions of dollars a year, and just rewire it on the fly to pick and choose payments to avoid default. The reality is there is no magic fix that would make breaching the debt ceiling smooth, and anyone who claims otherwise is selling you something you should not buy. Joining me now is steve rattner, former counsel to treasury secretary to tim geithner with Michael Bloomberg assets. All right, treasury has already been taking whats called extraordinary measures, right . Correct. For months. Is there anything they can do if we i mean, if we go over on wednesday, if youre sitting there as jack lew and the Civil Servants who have to run this Payment System, what do you do . I mean, what do you do on thursday morning if a debt ceiling hasnt been reached . I think the first thing to know is wednesdays a very important day. Its the last day that they can borrow using these socalled extraordinary measures, but its not the day that we actually default. Treasury will have about 30 billion of cash on hand. More cash comes in every day. As you point out, cash goes out every day. And probably somewhere between october 23rd and november 1st is when we literally wont have the money to pay the next days bills. Part of whats complicated here, right, is that these payments, the money coming in and the money going out is lumpy. You might get a whole big bunch of money one day and then have a bunch of payments the next day and its the unpredictability that makes it so harrowing, right . Yes, but i mentioned october 23rd for a reason, because theres a Social Security payment that goes out that day and i mentioned october 31st and november 1st for a reason, because theres an Interest Payment on the debt and Social Security and medicare payments that go out that day, so we know the day of some big, big amounts that have to go out. What do you think of the whole prioritization of payments . You work in treasury, you know your way around ledgers and numbers. What do you think about this idea . I think its generally ludicrous. I agree with pretty much everything you said. I would just say for complete accuracy is the treasury has a couple different Payment Systems and interest is handled somewhat differently from all the other bills. So you might be able to separate that a little bit, but you cant separate all the other bills like you talked about. There are questions about the technical ability, about the legal authority, and then about simply what do they want to do. Do you really not want to pay a Social Security payment so that you can pay interest to the chinese . And the whole thing is while all youre doing is empowering the executive in the supreme way at the same time youre accusing barack obama of being a tyrant, saying hes picking and choosing political targets to impose the most pain in the political Government Shutdown, youre also saying, i hand over to the executive, the white house, the president and the treasury the ability to choose who gets paid and who doesnt. Thats true, and theres also one other important point, which is you can default by means other than simply not paying your interest. In other words, if you dont pay your interest on your home mortgage, yes, youre in default, but if you choose to pay that but not pay your utility bill or not pay your saks fifth avenue bill, thats default, too. That could put you in bankruptcy just as surely. So, either way you look at it, the treasury simply doesnt have enough money without borrowing. Okay, so how should we think about the debt line . October 16th is when the treasury says extraordinary measures, we run out. You say it wont be probably until october 23rd that we actually literally go into default. I guess the question is, what do we look for . What happens . When we had the shutdown, we had the countdown clock because there was a statutory moment at which authority for the government to spend money ran out. How should we think about the countdown that were engaged in this week . Theres not as easy a way to count this one down, because i dont even think, frankly, as you point out, treasury knows from day to day exactly when the day is going to come. The point is, were playing with fire. And so you can keep a safe distance from the fire, which is what weve been doing, and even until october 17th, were a safe distance from the fire, or you can get up really close to the fire, but you dont know when your clothes are going to catch on fire exactly, you dont know the precise moment and that would be our position after october 17th. Would you anticipate we would see big movements in global Financial Markets on, say, thursday morning, if and when the government were not to raise the debt ceiling . The paradox of the Financial Markets right now is that the more they think theres going to be a deal, the more they just go, okay, so what . As you saw today. And then people in washington say, you see the Financial Markets dont care, after all. Right. Theyre using it as evidence there will be a deal. I know, but then you turn around, and then the moment the deal looks like its falling aparty, the Financial Markets will fall apart. Quickly, shouldnt we just get rid of this thing . Should there not be a debt ceiling . There shouldnt be. Of course there shouldnt be. Its a crazy way to run a railroad and this is not the way any policy should be ran. I think that should be part of the deal. I think that in this deal if youre negotiating anyway about getting this, lets just kill it. Thats the one thing i will confidently predict will not happen in all this. They will not get rid of it. Steve rattner, thank you for your time. My pleasure. Well be right back. More on. Everybody knows that. Well, did you know that when a tree falls in the forest and no ones around, it does make a sound . Ohhh. Ohhh. Oh boy im falling. Everybody look out ahhhhh. Ugh. Little help here. Geico. Fifteen minutes could save you. Well, you know. Anybody . 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A reallife joe the plumber is the congressman we are featuring tonight in our special segment these are the people who are running the country. Wait until you hear his claim to fame. Thats coming up. First, i want to share the three awesomest things on the internet today. We begin on the streets of new york, which for the month of october have been turned into a citywide canvas for the mysterious street artist known only as banksy. Banksy has been leaving his mark around the five boroughs with one art project per day, some outright beautiful like this delivery truck turned into a charming woodland scene, and others more cutting, like a caravan of squealing stuffed animals being driven through the meatpacking district. Yesterdays piece involved a table outside of the central park signing original banksy signed canvases. Sale price 60. The actual value of all this stuff, well over 1 million. The table was manned by an older gentleman who sat and sat and yawned and waited. His first sale didnt come until three hours later when a woman bought two pieces but only after talking him into a 50 discount. Not a Single Person seemed to realize they were purchasing for peanuts what serious art dealers would pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to get their hands on. Banksy will continue to keep new york on its toes for the rest of the month, meaning we have another 17 days to find out if this vendor guy actually was banksy. We will keep you posted. The second awesomest thing on the internet today, super villains united. Breaking bad may be history, but people are still enjoying the celebrated drama. Some are creating inventive new Halloween Costumes for their kids. Thats slightly inappropriate. And others are getting into the groove by Binge Watching the entire series. One new fan who watched every episode over the course of two weeks wrote a letter to bryan cranston. It happened to be Sir Anthony Hopkins who wrote your performance as Walter Wright was the best acting ive seen ever and just in case the point was missed he added, and you and your cast are the best actors ive ever seen. Still not clear . One more congratulations and my deepest respect. You are truly a great, great actor. Best records, tony hopkins. They confirmed the letter did in fact come from one of the worlds most renowned actors and who better to compliment a show about a sociopath than the man who made cannibalism endearing. And this is todd, the composite of an average american male in his 30s. Hes actually a little more physically fit than we were led to believe. Todd is the product of graphic artist nikolai lamb, who made the 3d models using body mass index measurements. Heres how todd compares to the average man from japan. A bit pounchier, but overall not terrible. Heres the average man from france. Again, the u. S. Is not looking so bad. Okay, thats not good. This is the version of todd from the netherlands, and hes pretty fit. Stands head and shoulders above the other four and the side view accent waits the tummy trouble everyone else has. Suck it in, todd american males havent felt this inferior to the dutch since the heyday of marcus shankenberg. You can find all the links for tonights click 3 on our website, allinwithchris. Com. Well be right back. [ male announcer ] eeny, meeny, miny, go. More adventures await in the new sevenpassenger lexus gx. Lease the 2014 gx 460 for 499 a month for 27 months. See your lexus dealer. Humans. Even when we cross our ts and dot our is, we still run into problems. Namely, other humans. Which is why at Liberty Mutual insurance, auto policies come with new car replacement and accident forgiveness if you qualify. See what else comes standard at libertymutual. Com. Liberty mutual insurance. Responsibility. Whats your policy . Its been that way since the day you met. 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If you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or if you have any allergic reactions such as rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. Ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a 30tablet free trial. Amelia. Neil and buzz for teaching us that you cant create the future. By clinging to the past. And with that youre history. Instead of looking behind. Delta is looking beyond. 80 thousand of us investing billions. In everything from the best experiences below. To the finest comforts above. Were not simply saluting history. Were making it. Its time once again for another installment of our new all in feature, these are the people who are running the country, which we take a closer look at the very small group of men and women in congress who have shut down the government. Tonight we turn the spotlight on a small businessman from oklahoma with a penchant for common sense cuts to federal spending and an aversion to bureaucratic red tape. Congressman Mark Wayne Mullen from oklahomas 2nd district. Mark wayne mullen represents oklahomas sprawling nd district which covers about a quarter of the state, one of two American Indians in congress, and he came to washington as a political outsider to flush out the waste. Im Mark Wayne Mullin with mullin plumbing. The red river. You know, were known for all those red bands that crisscross all over oklahoma, taking care of all your plumbing and septic needs. If those do with gas, water or sewer, were your experts in it. Hes the reallife joe the plumber, if joe the plumber ever got elected to congress and was actually a plumber. Mullin is fed up with the protruding tentacles of the federal government getting in the way. Government needs to start operating like we have to operate a business. And he means all four branches of government. This country isnt ran by just one individual. Its ran by four branches, but three branches are in control of this. Not only does congressman mullin have an alternative view of the governments constitutional structure, he also has an alternative take on where the president was born. Who would have thought wed ever actually, actually be questioning if we had a naturalborn president being president . But its this notion that the federal government is too big, too meddlesome and too wasteful that really gets mullin worked up. Like this summer when he told a group of constituents of a horror watching a couple defraud the Food Stamp Program. He knew just by looking at them. This guy was built like a brick house. I mean, he had muscles all over him. He was in a little tank top, pair of shorts and really nice nike shoes. They were both physically fit. And they go up in front of me and they pay with that card. Fraud, absolute 100 all it is is fraud. Shortly after that, he voted to cut funding to the Food Stamp Program by billions of dollars, even though abuse of the program is at an alltime low. And its not just food stamps he sees as waste. He believes the american recovery and reinvestment act of 2009 was a horrible waste of tax dollars, yet his Plumbing Company was awarded almost 400,000 of that very same federal stimulus money. Mullin maintains he is no hypocrite, hes a businessman. And when someone hires us to do a job, we dont ask them where the money comes from. As a businessman, mullin believes that obama care will wreak havoc on our economy and stifle job growth. So, when a letter was circulated this summer demanding that john boehner use the threat of a Government Shutdown to support a bill to defund obama care, Markwayne Mullin lent his support as a cosponsor, and thats how congressman Markwayne Mullin of oklahomas 2nd district became one of the people who is running the country. Tune in tomorrow night for our next installment of that. In the meantime, ted cruz going to the mall protests today and railing against Government Shutdown is like o. J. Simpson searching for the real killers. Over the weekend, that was one political reporters take on this weekends rightwing pageantry in the nations capital. It was really something. Ill tell you what else they were up to. Next. In the nation, we know how you feel about your car. So when coverage really counts, count on nationwide insurance. Because whats precious to you is precious to us. Love, love is strange just another way we put members first. Because we dont have shareholders. Join the nation. Baby. Nationwide is on your side trust your instincts to make the call. To treat my low testosterone, my doctor and i went with axiron, the only underarm low t treatment. Axiron can restore t levels to normal in about 2 weeks in most men. 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When ouwe got a subaru. S born, its where she said her first word. little girl no saw her first day of school. little girl bye bye made a best friend forever. The back seat of my subaru is where she grew up. What . announcer the twothousandfourteen subaru forester. girl what . announcer built to be there for your family. Love. Its what makes a subaru, a subaru. Yesterday, senator ted cruz of texas, senator mike lee from utah with plenty of support from sarah palin headline d a march to protest the governments closure of the world war ii memorial. The memorial is shut down, we should note, because the government is shut down, and the government is shut down because senators cruz and lee worked tirelessly for months to make it so. No matter how disingenuously channeling the raw anger of the tea party base, heres what cruz and company do best. This is the line our commander in chief put up here to prevent you from being here today. Is anybody worried about this wire . No will we surrender our freedom . No god bless ted cruz and mike lee our veterans should be above politics. You look around, though, and you see these barricades. This is a matter of shutdown priorities. Understand the political spectacle at this weekends million vet march, you have to go back two weeks when republicans shut down the government, furloughing hundreds of thousands of government workers, including many of the park rangers who patrol our war memorials, you may remember one republican personally berated a park ranger for the shutdown he helped cause. Park service should be ashamed of themselves. Im not ashamed. You should be. And the circus was on. Republicans and their allies tried to sell closing of the world war ii memorial as an evil obama plot. They want to make sure that world war ii veterans get shut out. To put up barricades to keep them away from their greatest accomplishments is an absolute sin. Its unamerican and its despicable. And all of this political fear was to force the president s hand to delay or defund his health care law. It didnt happen. Its not going to happen. And that brings us back to yesterday. We will not be timid in calling out any who would use our military, our vets as pawns in a political game. Yesterday, somewhere between hundreds and thousands of people descended on the mall to stage a protest against the closing of the war memorials, and it turns into something that looked a lot more like a tea party town hall. We want him to come here and apologize for the treatment of our veterans the speaker succeeded in whipping up the crowd around a variety of conservative conspiracies how dare you commit an atrocity on combat veterans families indict for benghazi is anybody worried about this wire . All no it was a protest of the shutdown headlined by the two senators who are most responsible for the shutdown. Are we going to let them shut us out of what is rightfully ours . No why is the federal Government Spending money to erect barricades to keep veterans out of this memorial . Republican congressman steve stockman, who previously accused democrats of curbstomping veterans because obama told them to, led the crowd in a chant. Tear down the wall and finally there was the ugliest moment of the day from larry claiman of the conservative Group Freedom watch. We are now ruled, quote unquote, by a president who bows down to allah. I call upon all of you to wage a second american nonviolent revolution. Demand that this president leave town, to get out, to put the koran down, to get up off his knees and to figuratively come up with his hands out. After that, protesters carried barricades to the white house and camped out with a huge Confederate Flag outside of the residence of the first black family to live in it. Also, apparently, just after senator ted cruz told the crowd the president was using military veterans as pawns, he and his colleague, mike lee, left the protest. And the original organizers of the event may have felt like the protest had been coopted by the tea party. On their website, the group states we feel disheartened that some would seek to hijack the narrative for political gain. The Core Principles all about honoring americas veterans in a peaceful apolitical manner. Joining me now is robert george, editorial writer for the New York Post and former aide to newt gingrich, michelle goldberg, the nation magazine, a senior contributor writer and josh barrow. Robert, who could have predicted that wtih sarah palin and ted cruz and mike lee there, things would get political . Im shocked. Im simply shocked. What i found was most interesting about this entire scenario was ted cruz, who seems to be despised by most of the senate, with the possible exception of mike lee well, obviously, with the exception of mike lee hes clearly become sort of the leader of the Tea Party Movement. And even though hes only been in office for about nine months, if he really wants to take that leadership and then, you know, use it as a springboard to 2016, hes going to have to be more careful about what kind of groups that he decides to sort of associate with you think . Yeah. Oh, you dont think sharing a microphone with a guy who says that the president needs to put down the koran and come out with his hands up . I mean, youve got this guy, larry clayman, whos sort of like the ghost of democratic obsession past. I mean, he was big back in 98 when he was leading Judicial Watch as part of the whole impeachment stuff, and then he had a falling out with Judicial Watch because, apparently, Judicial Watch thought that he was a little bit too nutty, even for them. And so, now, hes somehow crawled out of the woodwork and is attaching himself to these things. So, i mean, if ted cruz wants to be the head of the tea party and ride it to iowa and so forth, he can do that, but hes going to have to figure out a way of making clear hes the leader and youre not going to have all these nutballs attaching themselves to you. I want to read a tweet from our friend, tim carney, who is often on the show, conservative guy, a guy i have a lot of respect for. He says, give liberals this, they figured out the one clown with the Confederate Flag on pennsylvania avenue is the true leader of american conservatism. Is it fair to take that iconic photo of the Confederate Flag at this protest outside the white house and blow it up and say this represents something deep and dark about whats going on here . Hold your thought. Well be right back. Customer erin swenson ordered shoes from us online but they didnt fit. Customers not happy, im not happy. Sales go down, im not happy. Merch comes back, im not happy. Use ups. They make returns easy. Unhappy customer becomes happy customer. Then, repeat customer. Easy returns, im happy. Repeat customers, im happy. Sales go up, im happy. I ordered another pair. Im happy. both im happy. Im happy. Happy. Happy. Happy. Happy. Happy happy. I love logistics. [ male announcer ] 1. 21 gigawatts. Today, thats easy. Ge is revolutionizing power. Supercharging turbines with advanced hardware and innovative software. Using data predictively to help power entire cities. So the turbines of today. Will power us all. Into the future. Earlier today, matt had a crazy idea, and a crazy idea can either make you kind of famous or kind of fired. His bosses told him to pack up his things and go. To an office. With a door. See, matt works at esurance, where crazy ideas make Car Insurance faster, friendlier, and fit for life in the modern world, which isnt all that crazy when you think about it. Esurance. Insurance for the modern world. Now backed by allstate. Click or call. Were back, and im here with robert george, michelle goalbrick and josh bauer. Were talking about this big kind of tea party rally that happened on the mall this weekend, yesterday, actually. It was called the million vet march, billed as an apolitical celebration of americas veterans and indignation that the memorial was shut down, but then it became the Big Tea Party rally, flags and quite honestly, an iconic photo of a guy in front of the white house with a big Confederate Flag. My question to you is, is it fair to show this and be like, this represents something about what these folks, where these folks are coming from . Well, i think it wouldnt be fair if a similar message hadnt been spouted by one speaker after another at this rally. I mean, obviously, its in the nature of images to be reductive and sum things up in a Single Person, but we heard over and over and over again from these speakers, both the delegitimization of the president , a celebration if not of treason, of something kind of tip toeing up to wanting to overthrow our democratically elected president. And so, the idea that this is unfair, this permeates their rhetoric, you know . And not just and what were seeing in the shutdown and in this kind of grinding to a halt of the federal government right now in a certain sense is the confederacys revenge, right . I mean, weve seen this do you think thats fair . This has been, by the way, this has been a theme that has been going around liberal writers a lot, that this kind of a neoconfederate moment. I dont agree with that. I will say, however, though, given the era in which we live where everybodys got a cell phone and so forth, of course its fair if thats going to if somebodys going to be out there popping up, you know that somebodys going to be taking images of it, and the organizers of these things are the ones who are going to have to ultimately be responsible for, you know, for images and voices that ultimately embarrass their movement. I think calling this neo confederate gives too much credit to the protest. That would imply that it has a goal like the confederacy did, such as secession and the promotion of slavery. This is a protest about nothing. It amazes me that theyve settled on this thing about the monuments, like this is one of the genuinely unimportant functions of the government right here. Until nine years ago, we didnt have a world war ii memorial. There as a symbolic its the delegitimization of the president , not just of the president , but the delegitimization of any democrat, which is the right weve been involved in for many years [ everyone talking at once ] started ultimately back with his signature program. So, not necessarily the delegitimization of him im sorry, they asked him to come out with his hands up. Thats just a nutball, larry clayman, hes not a serious individual but hes a nutball who had a microphone at the event where ted cruz, who engineered the shutdown, spoke. Thats the point, right . You do not im, as someone whos a product of the american left and has been to a lot of protests and has been secure rounded by people who have all sorts of ideas that i find totally nutty and abhorrent, i hate the kind of guilt by Association Game as a matter of just a sort of general matter, and yet, ted cruz knows what hes doing when he goes there. He knows the folks hes stoking. And the folks they are putting up to speak. Im not so sure about whether he does right. He does. I mean, look, he had just come, like the day before, he ended up getting the most votes at the values voter summit. So, he obviously has a certain, you know, ultimate track of where hes going on, but hes going at it so fast, i dont think theres a lot of Political Organization around him to try and protect him from himself. Heres what i think is the difference between this on the right and on the left. Both, you know, i mean, you look at occupy wall street and there were all sorts of crazies involved in that in addition to people who were not crazies, but elites on the left are still in control of the Democratic Party, and they were able to take the energy off of occupy wall street without creating a situation where you have democrats being told that they have to shut down the government unless we get a singlepayer Health Care System and theyre afraid that theyll go back and lose primaries it they dont and theres also no real [ everyone talking at once ] perhaps for the worst for the country. Right. Because this kind of shutdown governance is bad, regardless of the substance. I mean, the substance the tea party wants out of this is bad, but also the process is bad. We have the situation where we dont know whether the federal government is going to be open in an hour or not but there is a different issue, which is that the right is actually much better at channeling its extreme grievances through political parties, whereas the left, theres no inner penetration between the Democratic Party and occupy wall street. Thats the big thing. What you saw happen was that a movement that happened in the rally, the glenn beck, the big glenn beck rally, april 15th rally, then the town halls, right . Right. These are wr all essentially street protests, using the tools of politics outside of the electoral process that was converted into electoral gains through primaries and through elections that now has profound consequences for the house of representatives. Thats actually true. The Tea Party Movement for some of its excesses was sort of actively engaged where the occupy people was, frankly, sort of like literally occupying, sitting around on their butts and hoping somethings going to change. Well, they did not they did not consider themselves electoral politics, but heres what i find fascinating, is that as someone who grew up in the american left, as someone whos been to protests, right, i think of that kind of politics as a kind of antimajoritarian politics. When youre marching against a war, the wars unpopular, but you feel yourself a voice of conscience and dissident against the majority, and whats fascinating me about politics at the moment is thr profoundly momentarian. But they will never see themselves that way. But those with the tools theyre using. The irony is, though, is that it is Tea Party People who have biggest fan, quoting rules for radicals and so forth, so there is an interesting irony there. But this isnt an effective strategy. Its tearing the Republican Party apart. The Republican Party has been effective in some sense to channeling people in that it won elections in 2010, but its not effective in maintaining a longterm brand that works for the party or the policy. And this is the abc and wall street journal poll suggesting would you vote to defeat or replace every member of congress . 60 . Erick erickson was tweeting about us being on the brink of a third party, right . Now, third parties dont have a good electoral chance in this country because of the electoral rules, but there is a level of factualism inside the Republican Party now that is a genuine threat to just the functioning of the institution, wouldnt you say . I would not completely disagree with that. I mean, no, no, they i mean, you see with john boehner trying to, you know, kind of get control and actually end the shutdown that hes being basically tempered by the Tea Party Group within the house