what mr. slips could actually pull off politically as well as here. the ukrainians' interests have changed with the experience of war now. >> the craziest part of this whole war is that if vladimir putin really didn't want ukraine to join nato, invading would be the worst thing for arguing that. catherine stoner, we thank you for your analysis there. after the break, my conversation with a winner of the nobel peace prize. she spent her career trying to rid the world of nuclear weapons. what she had to say about the new nuclear threat from russia, and inside ukraine thousands are still struggling to escape the violence. here's skynews' alex crawford. >> reporter: with sharking hands and uncertain steps, the terribly old and terribly frail are pushing through their fear,