Anything like that. All inall in starts right now. Good evening from new york. Im chris hayes and rick perry is back. Each day americans demonstrate tremendous courage, but many of those americans have been knocked down and they are looking for a Second Chance. Lets give them that Second Chance. Lets give them real leadership. Lets give them a future greater than the greatest days of our past. Lets give them a president who leads us in the direction of our highest dreams. Former Texas Governor entered the republican president ial race today inside a sweltering airplane hanger outside of dallas making the announcement in front of a c 130 plane in blazed with the words perry for president. He was surrounded by military veterans and families including Navy Seals Marcus and morgan and the taya kyle the widow of chris kyle. Many in the crowd wore cowboy hats and perry himself exchanged cowboy boots for black loafers. Now starts thick black glasses unlike his 2012 campaign. Perry has his own country rap theme song we dropped the lyrics to sing at home. Thank you and god bless you. Its easy to forget how strong perry came out of the gate in his 2012 president ial run, the longtime governor of a large state with strong job growth and support from the money and establishment of the gop base perry zoomed to the front of the pact in august 2011 but he put in by all accounts a terrible performance as a candidate which was an iconic debate moment. Its three agencies of government that are gone. Commerce, education, whats the third one . You cant name the third one. The third agency of the government i would do away with the education, the [ laughter ] commerce. And lets see. Oh, my. I cant. The third one i cant, sorry. [ laughter ] oops. [ laughter ] oh my god, that tape. Perry has to contend with the memories of his disastrous performance as well as a controversial indictment as home state that could require him to leave the campaign trail to head to a texas court. Joining me from dallas casey hunt at rick perrys announcement today and casey, from a sort of stage craft perspective, it seemed like the event came off well. The sweltering heat and sweatiness aside. The sweltering heat and sweatiness aside, yes, chris. They tried to be prepared for how hot it was going to be. They had several giant air conditioners in the back but they werent getting the job done. They did hand attendees fans but perry had to sweat it out front and center for everyone. Other than that you know, one of the more dramatic backdrops weve seen for Something Like this and a heavy focus on the military biography and thats new for his 2016 bid from 2012. He mentioned he was a veteran quite a bit in the last campaign but wasnt a center piece and he does have an authentic connection to many of those military veterans standing on stage with him. Marcus latrle one of them. He lived with governor perry and anita perry at the Governors Mansion as he was coming back from combat in iraq and afghanistan. It did strike me whereas the lead message of governor perry, the last time around was about the texas miracle, socalled texas miracle about texas economic performance, this much much more focused on Foreign Policy military and veterans his record and veterans on stage, the that was not, it really was not the front and center lead branding for the Perry Campaign in 2012. Chris, i think it reflect as broader shift, as well. That was something that applied to the republican field. You had mitt romney running on Economic Issues, much of what the country was focused on. I highlights how the issues shifted and i think isis is front and center in the campaign talking about president obamas Foreign Policy and republicans perceive to be weakness on the front and i think the Perry Campaign season opening here there arent very many military veterans for a country that, you know, had elected military veterans as president for years and years basically up until bill clinton and president obama, you know this is a field thats devoid largely of military experience perry and senator gram are the only two. Governor perry should talk to john kerry about how well that necessarily works. Casey hunt thank you very much. Thanks chris. Joining me from austin evan smith, evan we were going back through the 2012, sort of following the clippings of the 2012 incredible rise and fall of governor rick perrys president ial candidate. Why was that such a disaster and what should lead anyone to believe that disaster will not be repeated once hes off prompter and not giving a prepared speech and doing things he proved himself incapable of doing on the trail the last time around . The two big issues last time is his health was not good and preparedness was not good. Beyond thanks it went perfectly. His record as you said as governor of texas, the economic record particularly was very strong and a lot of us thought that would be enough to carry him to the top of the pact but he blew it. The problem was he blew it in a very weak field, and his big challenge in this election chris, i would say is not simply being better prepared and for healthy but realize income a field of 15 or 20 republicans, even the worst of whom is better that some of the best last time. Hes going to have to figure out how to stand out, the veterans think today was one thing and i would agree with you. It was definitely interesting to see that as his focus but he needs to differentiate himself from a lot of the people in washington and started to do that some today by highlighting executive experience as opposed to speech making on the floor. That will be a big feature of his campaign. Here is that section of the speech when he calls out senators for making speeches as opposed to his record. Take a listen. Will be this when have you led . Leadership is not a speech on the senate floor. It is not what you say. It is what you have done. The issue here is interesting. Two things came together casey eluded to, the bite of Economic Issues for the Republican Party da dim diminished due to the fact they got their way on the deficit for awhile and thats been taken away from them. Perry harped on it today but it doesnt pull or charge voters away say back in 2010. Particularly others the texas miracle looks shaky. This is a few headlines, wall street journal texas economic hickup complicates rick perrys pitch. They lost jobs. It seems like that will be a little complicated for him in term thes ofs of making the case for the record. That march jobs number was the first negative in 53 months in texas. Texas survived the recession that a lot of you and the rest of the country, we here in texas survived as well as we did because of the oil and gas economy. Since oil and gas is on the turn down, we suffered. A president has to preside over among other things the economy and one knock against president obama was he didnt have any experience running anything and so when it came time to steady the economy in bad times, he didnt really have the chops to do it and perry will argue, look, 15 years, almost 15 years as governor, the net job growth in texas exceeded the other 49 states combined. Jeb bush creating jobs in florida, as well. Were not going to not hear perry talk about that. The biggest challenge as you talked about, people have got to forget about what happened in 2012. Perry said today the most optimistic person on earth is the dry land cotton farmer. No, thats someone who wants to run for president after pratfalling the way he did. You have to figure out how to have a Second Chance to make a First Impression and if he cant do that none of the rest of this stuff matters. A lot of scrutiny up front. I want to talk about scuttlebutt behind the wars and perry in texas, which is fascinating texas republican politics scuttlebutt. Well talk about that next time. Thank you. Thanks. Hes the tenth candidate and there are plenty more coming to participate in the first gop debate in august. A candidate needs to be in the top ten in polling. Right now perry just makes the cut polling in tenth place in the real clear politics average with 3 support. Joining me now, a man whom i bet you could get 3 support in a National Poll on this msnbc contributor, host of the majority report. I may throw my hat in the ring. Casey eluded to it, evan talked about it where lets remember the Value Proposition of the rick Perry Campaign back in 2012 which was great. It was basically mitt romney and the base doesnt like him and michelle and hermann cane im inplowsble nominees and here i am everybody and everyone was real excited. Right. And now he is like number three in all those slots. Except thats why we saw sort of the promotion of his military record, except in that one area. He has, there is no other governor who has his military service, and thats basically, when you talk about a race that there could very well be 15 people, 16 maybe 20 people in the race. I mean no joke. I cant believe were at ten already. And i think that, like there is still a couple of people who we dont know their names yet are actually considering to jump in. Once more do well see donald trump. Thats possible. Do you really think that will happen . I actually do. I think this is a situation where there is this is like the california recall. We talked about it. He, i think, is pushing the military experience as a way of differentiating himself. The glass is at one point someone would say i want to the see your prescription. Show it to us. That is such a naked attempt to get people to forget that hes governor. Youre talking about the pain medication in 2012 . The glasses. Oh the glasses. [ laughter ] and the attempt to get away from governor oops. Honestly. You think thats what its about . I think they are trying to project, this is not the goof ball on that stage. There may have been other reasons. There was rumors he was on pain medication. Pain medication. Nevertheless when you say we want to get rid of three Government Agencies and cant name them people think maybe your policy subscriptions are insincere. [ laughter ] and so why would they think that . All it is going to take, you know during that debate if hes there and tries to land a punch, someone will look at them and just say oops and the entire crowd is going to laugh and youre right back in the moment. And the other issue that he has is youve got this fascinating big state dynamic emerging now with the florida battle for florida donors and florida legions between jeb bush and marco rubio and in texas, youve got ted cruz and governor rick perry. Jeb bush also got involved in texas to a certain extent because thats his family. If you have experience of combing through the disclosures of someone fundraising, they start close to home. Literally, its the neighbors. Thats where they start. That will be a brutal game of thrones war for those fundraising dollars in the state of texas just between those two guys and the bush family. Everybody has to runaround and look for their billionaire now and nobody wants to be the person left without the chair when the music stops and frankly, i think thats in someways its interesting the way that its impacting our politics. I think a lot of what we saw from ran paul over the last couple weeks is a function of him striking out with billionaires and finding another way to raise money and to a certain extend that was helpful in term thes of our politics. There is an interesting, there is always sort of an idea governors have a better shot. Dont have a voting record. You have senators running 5 of one out of 20 senators are running but occurs to me that its easier to command National Attention from the senate in this crowded field than an ex governor. Thats the problem perry faces is that he cant make its hard for him to make news. Yeah and hes been out of politics for awhile. So not as long as jeb bush. Not as long as jeb bush and thats a manhandicap for jeb bush. Youre right. If youre senator, youre basically double dipping because you have people covering the campaign and youve got the people in washington in terms of outlets to get your earned media. Sam, thank you very much. Youve got a good longterm prospect in the leader board of fantasy draft but i think youre third or fourth. Im not worried. With rick perry officially joining the president ial race. Time for an update. First a reminder of the moment rick perry got picked. I think im going to go for the lowest number on the Board Strategy to, you know to explain number three. Prime number. Yeah. Three. Will it deliver for joy . Rick perry. [ applause ] rick perry, hes got three good reasons to run, but can only remember two. Whats the third one there . Lets see. The former governor of the Lone Star State is back but this time has four eyes on the prize. Today has been awesome, girl. Hes former Texas Governor rick perry. Oh, were pretty happy with the four eyes on the prize, that excellent pick by joy reed means shes up to 300 points on the board but many more potential candidates dragging their feet on declaring. We got an update on one of the most agreous of those next. Unt in seconds. And once you find it you can switch it right on again. Youre back freeze it, only from discover. Get it at discover. Com. Out of 42 vehicles based on 6 different criteria, why did a panel of 11 automotive experts name the Volkswagen Golf motor trends 2015 car of the year . Well give you four good reasons. The Volkswagen Golf. Starting at 19,295, theres an awardwinning golf for everyone. My name is Jeff Richardson the Vice President of operations here at c. K. Mondavi. To make this fine wine it takes a lot of energy. Pg e is the energy expert. We reached out to pg e to become more efficient. My job is basically to help them achieve their goals around sustainability and really to keep their overhead low. Solar and Energy Efficiency are all core values of pg e. Theyve given us the tools that we need to become more efficient and bottom line save more money. Together, were building a better california. Never let it be said that all in doesnt get results. Last night we brought you the story jeb bushs prolonged period of campaign exploruation was quite possibly Campaign Finance law. Those laws might very well classified him as a candidate with the attended rules and laws of being a candidate despite the fact he has not yet declared officially his actual candidacy. Paul asked ryan Watchdog Group explain this to us last night. His Group Filed Complaints with the fcc charging bush with violations of federal election law. While today, less than 24 hours after our segment aired, came the news that bush will put an end and announce his president ial bid on june 15th from miami. Official word is he looks forward to announcing his decision on that day but no one doubts what that decision will be. It will come after bush makes a weeklong trip to you are pop. Bush will announce his president ial bid and we here at all in get results. I never know when ill need relief. Thats why i only choose nicorette mini. I knew instantly that this was. Wow its crest hd. Its amazing. New crest hd gives you a 6x healthier mouth and 6x whiter teeth in just one week. It gets practically every detail. Thats why its called hd. Try new crest prohealth hd. The federal government suffer add data breach possibly the biggest breach in data in u. S. History. Andrea mitchell has the latest. Reporter Officials Say this could be the biggest cyber attack in history, the culprit china. 4 million current and former Government Employees saying their names, Social Security numbers and birthdays could have been hacked from the office of personnel management. The agency that screens and hires federal workers and does security clearances for 90 of the federal government. The Obama Administration is scrambling to assess the damage and warning Government Employees to monitor Bank Accounts and will get government help with credit reports and Identity Theft insurance, the data breached involved a never before seen cyber indicator and could affect every federal agency. The fbi is investigating but in the past Cyber Attacks from china have came from this chinese army build income shanghai. This comes after the north korean attack on sony and reports russia hacked the white house, state department and irs including president obamas emails. Today before this cyber attack was disclosed, Intelligence Committee members senator ron widen told nbc news. I continue to feel that it is very important that we ramp up our efforts to go after foreign hackers and foreign threats. U. S. Officials say this breach is serious but could not be the worstcase scenario they hope that would disclose the identities of the cias agents. So far they do not think the cia covers have been blown. So far the Chinese Embassy has not returned our calls about the hacking. That was andrea mitchell. Joining me robert knake, the counsel on Foreign Relations at the National Security counsel at the white house. Robert, can you tell me first of all, how big a deal this is and how would you know how big a deal it is forensically . I dont think this is actually that much a bigger deal than the breaches at other commercial providers that lost similar information. This information is no different than the kind of credit identity information thats been stolen by criminal groups over the last year. What is going on now in term thes thes is a process the that is taking indicators pulled from the breach investigation and figuring out who may have been behind it. Figuring out the severity of the breach is something obm cant do. They said its possible up to 4 Million People may have had this information taken, but they dont in fact, know yet whether that the has happened. So, there is sort of different end goals one can imagine with hackers breaking into information. What you said at the top there sounds like if this is personal information, what would be the end goal here . Would be the reason to acquire the this information . The reason you would want this kind of information is to commit fraud, to commit tax fraud, Insurance Fraud or credit card fraud. Its information most valuable when applied to the the a criminal enterprise. Its intelligence value is worth less. A secondary thing is try and use it to gain other accounts to use it for instance to reset passwords that might ask for instance where you were born what your birthday is that kind can of information could be used to gain secondariryy ryaccounts but the value is less than forfraud. It seems the default assumption in these cases is to look towards china, sometimes to look towards russia. Is that justified based on your experience or are we seeing a proliferation across the world of these kinds of activities . Yeah, im skeptical of the claim that this is known to be Chinese Government officials, Chinese Government sanctioned action. It doesnt seem like a worthwhile target for an intelligence agency. It doesnt seem like something that a Chinese Military agency would want to wage going after. Its not intelligence information. Its not useful portrayed or in inproperty. There is a jump to sayist china but the veracity of the claims that u. S. Government officials have corroborated that thats not an official u. S. Government position. Former director of cyberspace, thank you very much. Thank you. The democrats to declare war,war on the votes, the details on that next. In the nation, we know how you feel about your car. 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Innovation that excites. Today republicans are systematically trying to stop millions of american citizens from voting. What part of democracy are they afraid of . I believe every citizen has the right to vote and i believe we should do everything easier for every citizen to vote. Hillary clinton deliver add fiery speech today at a historically black call in houston calling for 20 days of early voting. Texas is at epicenter four years after being coming law, the voter id rules are under review by the fifth Circuit Court of appeals. The Supreme Court decided to hear conservetive challenge to texas redistricting campaign. They fired the opening shots in an aggressive legal strategy against voting restrictions nationwide. A lawyer whose clients include in ohio and wisconsin two key president ial battle grounds already. Georgia, nevada and virginia could be next. Joining me now, mira perez, done a lot of litigation around the issues, youre from san antonio texas. I am. Which in texas is a battle ground. Before we get to the litigation clinton laid out a policy agenda that most radical farreaching sweeping sort of expansion of the ease of the franchise that ive heard from a major candidate. Right, no it was really exciting because for many years, you and other reporters have been indicating that we are in the middle of a war on voting. This used to be a bipartisan issue where it was agreed people should have free and fair access to the election system but in 2010 we saw that dramatically change and its really encouraging to see a politician of a very high stature say enough. We are not going to put unnecessarily barriers in front of the box and all politicians should say things like that. Not just we shouldnt be putting barriers, we should expand 20 days of early voting across the nation, talked about oregons automatic votingerer station. Certainly. She said thats a model policy. This would profoundly change the franchise in america were we to see this happen across the country. One thing weve been advocating for is Voter Registration modification is a way to get all people not registered on the rolls and Hillary Clinton endorsed such a proposal. She wants a policy such if youre eligible and american you are getting on the rolls and swifting the burden to the government to get people registered to vote instead of putting hoops in front of people to be able to register. Now we get to one of the most fascinating dramatic high stakes subtext of the election which will be the litigation battle over individual states laws particularly at a time when the voting acts rights have been rendered essentially inoperable. It will be up to the campaigns, department of justice on campaigns to be the plaintiffs in the lawsuits right . There is a lot of private parties. For example, we represent the texas naacp and legislative american caucus. In texas. Right. We need voter advocates out there making sure that unnecessary restrictions to the ballot box are pushed back. It is a risky move given what the court did to the provision and what the court did right before the elections allowing certain restrictive laws like the one that happened in texas and the one in ohio to go forward for the 2014 elections. The Supreme Court did that. They refused to step in and say actually you cant put these in operation before election until weve had a chance to hear whether these are actually constitutional. Right, and the texas case we feel like were on very strong ground because we found a finding of discriminatory intent. The at a time when its not clear that the Supreme Court will always step in to protect voters to have these lawsuits out there create is going to create something to watch. And its also to going to create high stakes down to the wire battles because when you litigate under active campaign are lastminute motions for changes, injections, those get appealed up, right . Because you cant turn back the clock, right . So having this you know having a litigation battle over voting restrictions in 2015 is very different than having a litigation battle restrictions in seay september of 2016. The hope in the texas case is it will be resolved by then. The fifth circuit knows the clock were talking about, the there are almost always elections and youre entirely right, once an election happens and youre disenfranchised, you cant undo it. Its important for voters to be able to have free and fair access to the ballot box and make sure all politicians are talking about how to implement common sense reforms to make sure its easier for people to vote. Thank you so much. Thank you. Up next, why people who cheered during a graduation celebration are facing jail time and later, the incredible details from the duggar family interview. Well be right back. [announcer]when we make beyond natural dry dog and cat foods. We start with real meat as the first ingredient. We leave out corn,wheat and soy. And we own where our dry food is made100 percent can other brands say all that . For nutrition you can trust and your pet will enjoy. Does your food go beyond . Learn more at purinabeyond. Com. This is my body of proof. Proof of less joint pain. And clearer skin. This is my body of proof that i can fight Psoriatic Arthritis from the inside out. With humira. Humira works by targeting and helping to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to both joint and skin symptoms. Its proven to help relieve pain, stop further joint damage and clear skin in many adults. Doctors have been prescribing humira for nearly 10 years. 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At least three people are facing disturbing the peace charges and possible 500 fines and six months in jail after, get this cheering on a Family Member after her name was called at the high School Graduation last month. According to the New York Times one woman was charged for yelling and chapping while inside the building after an announcement was made for all to hold applause in celebrating until after the end of the ceremony. Her loud noise was disturbing the peace and dignity. The School Superintendent said not only did he tell the crowd before the ceremony to hold the applause until the end, there was a warning in the program obtained by the nbc affiliate in memphis that reads persons responsible by any disruption by laud cheers or use of noise makers may be escorted from the building. When a child graduates, its an honor and privilege to walk that stage. I kept quiet. I let my son and them did it because they were younger. I was crying. She told a local paper, there were four people that disturbed the ceremony. He got the names of three and pressed charges but hasnt been able to identify the fourth. I hope we send the message that everybody desires a right to hear their childs name called, see their child walk across stage were talking about a ceremony that lasts about 55 minutes to an hour. Joining me now, david feige, professor of National College defense. I want to play this one more time to watch the crime and a warning to viewers, this is graphic. If you have Young Children around, shield their eyes take a look. You did it baby [ laughter ] the fate that i might have to bond out of jail or pay court costs or a 500 fine to express my love is ridiculous, man, its just ridiculous. It is ridiculous but not even that surprising. Not that surprising. It is and isnt. The application of this absurd law to this situation is in a ways surprising but its completely indicative of a larger problem. What is that . At this point our laws our criminal laws are so vast they cover such an extraordinary expanse and the definitions are so elastic, we can crime criminalize anything. Every graduation i have gone to goes this way, administrator gets up and says for the sake of everyone please hold your applause until all the names are read. Three kids in everyone is cheering after every one. Its so wonderful. This to me is a key point. This wasnt unlawful behavior. This was disorderly behavior in the eyes of the superintendent and the key is that the law allows people in power to essentially prosecute violations of order as violations of law. Thats exactly right. That is in a way, right, the krill of the criminal Justice System. Its everywhere and you can find it wherever you want to look the question is where do you look . Its in that use of discretion that i think people find discriminatory policing and things that upset them. Let me read you offenses against public order here in new york service right. Disorderly conduct, Unlawful Assembly loitering, criminal nuisance and harassment in the second degree. If a Police Officer or some force of the law wants to say that you are breaking the law in a given circumstance, there is no, they will be able to do so. The criminal code exists to give them the ability to do that. Lets speak about new york as you know i have a bunch of years in the system. Not only can they they do. Its utterly shocking. You can go to the arraignments pretty much tonight from here and walk down to criminal court and you can find people charged with Disorderly Conduct and its one thing that accompanies assault in the third, assault on Police Officer cases resisting arrest cases, obstructing Governmental Administration cases. You would be quickly a violation of public order materialized. Those tend to be cases of people essentially getting mouthing and being loud and disrupt thetive. Or cheering for your kid. Whatever you want it to be. There is an obvious racial subtext, this is a white superintendent in mississippi, this is a town a place of great dignity. Yes, that does not like to have their peace offended this is the superintendent was, my point is not that i want to pay money but know there are consequences for their behavior stern fatherfigure and i want a dignified service. Im not even for the dignified service. Im for the enthusiasm. Yeah people cheer in the bronx. Its the 500 that it costs to secure your freedom after violating the dignity and public order of the state of mississippi. There was a survey Something Like half of american households cant come up with 500. What is amazing of, tonight, tonight, there are 1,000 or so people sleeping with pretrial convicted of nothing because they cannot come up with 500 bail. Thank you for joining us. My pleasure. Well take a look at what was revealed in the first post scandal duggar family interview. Michelle was september 13th. Youre welcome. Ugh. Youre the valet . Yea, sorta the valet. Both drive for a living, both like to save money on Car Insurance and we both know you may not get this car back in the same condition. Watch your toes. Wo ya boy. Get it sorta you isnt you. With drivesense from esurance, you can earn a personalized discount based on how you drive not how someone sorta like you drives. Youll even get a discount just for signing up. Esurance. Backed by allstate. Click or call. Introducing the first ever gummy multivitamin from centrum. A complete, and tasty new way to support. Your energy. Immunity. And metabolism like never before. Centrum multigummies. See gummies in a whole new light. Public sector unions a whole different segment may offer hope to this country struggling labor movement. Editor l employees at gawker media just voted to join the Writers Guild of america making gawker the First DigitalMedia Company to organize the labor force. Nothing short of a landslide. 75 of the employees that voted opting to join the guild in a pose that went up the next step will be determining what we want to bargain for, forming a bargaining commit thety and negotiating a contract, we are unionized. No one burns on my watch try alkaseltzer heartburn reliefchews. They work fast and dont taste chalky. Mmm. Amazing. I have heartburn. Alkaseltzer heartburn reliefchews. Enjoy the relief. When cigarette cravings hit, all i can think about is getting relief. Only nicorette mini has a patented fastdissolving formula. It starts to relieve sudden cravings fast. I never know when ill need relief. Thats why i only choose nicorette mini. The First Time Since acknowledging that their son josh duggar made what they call some very bad mistakes as a young teenager, his parents are speaking out. Jim bob and Michelle Duggar took the fox news outlet to tell their story. Did he explain why . He said he was curious about girls and he had gone in and basically touched them over their clothes when they were sleeping, they didnt know he had done it. It was so important for us as parents to talk to our girls and make sure that nothing else had happened. What did they say . One by one ask we talked with them, none of them were aware of joshs wrongdoings. So they learned about i from you . Yeah. Yes yes. According to jim bob and Michelle Duggar they closely monitored their sons actions after he came forward the first time. They did not at this point get him any professional help or contact authorities. We thought, you know at first that josh you know was on the road to man first but he was a kid and still a juvenile. All these, again, this was not rape or anything like that. This is touching somebody over their clothes. It was only at least two other incidents saying he inappropriately touched two more Family Members they sought help. At that point we pulled him out of the house and said he cant be here. We pulled him out and he went through that working with that man yes, goes to the counseling. Yes. When he was done with the counseling, this is not like a licensed therapist. Its somebody a christianbased christianbased. Treatment facility. But i really had a huge impact on his life. That was the turning point in his life and this man really reached his heart. After josh duggar returned from the little rock christian base Treatment Facility they brought them into the Arkansas StatePolice Headquarters where he spoke with the state trooper. No charges were filed. The next year the duggars starred in the first big tv special and today they sit atop one of the most popular tv shows of our time. Are there other ways the duggars might have handled this situation . Well talk about that next. Ugh heartburn did someone say burn . Try alkaseltzer heartburn reliefchews. They work fast and dont taste chalky. Mmm. Amazing. 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That is just like were getting in the car right now, like im calling im finding the person the Mental Health professional for each of these children of mine. Correct. The perpetrator and victim. Yes. And were going to go now. The biblebased home schooling technique they subscribe to. Which they did not get into in the interview. Which they did not discuss in the interview discusses you handle the it at home and how do you determine the factors in the household or the school that contributed to this abuse . There anything the victim the did to provoke abuse . This real blame the victim mentality in this philosophy can be super isolating to the victim. Actually, worst than isolating, i think perpetuates guilt and shame that is already a real issue for victims of abuse particularly sexual abuse when they have no guilt and they question themselves, did i do something . To have your home schooling endorse that and be in a family where women, where the model is that the women are sort of there to support the men, what choice do you have in forgiveness . Really . I mean support, the older brother included. Lets also be clear here. Whatever was like whatever was done initially was manifestly ineffective because this happened with five different individuals, the intervention, there are a lot of people when the story first broke that said you should have called the cops. What do you think about that . Im really nodt a lawyer so im not addressing the legal side. The first thing to do is he Mental Health care and also first of all, you have to understand abuse, its really a Public Health issue. I happens unfortunately often enough that it is. Incredible wide spread often the majority of are Family Members or people in the close circle of the victim. Thats why we have to understand the first line people are pediatricians, emergency room doctors, psychiatrists, psychologists psychologists, they need to report so Child Protective Services can come in and an objective third party can decide is it safe to have these peopling to in the house . That the matters the most. The question of you know should you be arrested and charged and so on you know i think what is disconcerting about this particular case and i know the that the duggars said differently, but the difference between 15 and 16yearold and molestation of a 5 or 6yearold is splitting hairs and concerns me about issues of pedophiles. My other feeling watching this was this happened the year before you go on television. I just you know the year before you decided to you decided, you the adults decided to put your minor children on television invite the world into your home, make your world public, open them all up to prying eyes. You made that decision for your kids, you the parents and youre going to go on television and talk about how other families are to be judged how other families are less than. This is a classic case of the psychological term called splitting, which is you split off the urges occurring to you or your family. I want to do this heinous thing, no, im not that. Im the opposite of that. Im the pillar of right and moral and everything good you know think mark foley. I dont see his children. I protect them, et cetera. Clearly, the family used that to demonize others and they have been demonizing gay and lesbian parents. His job was to go around promoting junk science saying that gay and lesbian parents could be child molesters and a threat to children. The family inserted themselves into arkansas politics. In fayetteville when an lgb the t civil rights ordnance passed they donated and got a campaign. Michelle duggar recorded a robo call that went to voters and said transgender people are going to molest your children in bathrooms. She did that knowing what had happened. Yes, thats why i say it is unconsciously about that, you know. This isnt my family. This didnt happen to me its those people. Im going to protect other people from those bad people. Its to me what was so striking about this whole thing particularly the happened in the venue of fox and Michael Brown stole some cigarettes and hes a thug and this young man molested five different girls, i want to live in a world where we find human and compassion et interventions for the victims and for this young man so that he can get right and healthy and have a productive life and he shouldnt be thrown in the criminal Justice System and shouldnt be tossed out as someone who is inredeemable but this bubble of compassion that existed is so contrainstrainconstrained, right . You cant have that therapeutic intervention in an envier envierment like the School Teaching program. I doesnt allow for any scrutiny from your community. Right, because it is fundamentally lyly to outside worlds. That is all for this evening. Good evening, rachel. Good evening chris. Thanks for joining us this hour. In bigtime politics even when youre a bigtime successful National Politician you have good days but you also inevitably sometimes have bad days. And today for a few really bignamed politicians who want to become president , today for a hand full of those guys it was a bad day. First of all, spare a thought for marco rubio, senator from florida. Some genius in the marco rubio for president operation today signed him up to do a fundraising dinner in connecticut, and at one level, thats fine im sur