Hillary clinton meets the press, defends herself from mitt romney and explains why America Needs a woman president. Plus why politicians in rick scotts florida are paying just 8 a month for health care while denying medicaid for the poor. And as she steps down from her role in the naacp, another odd turn in the story of rachel dolzel. There was to addressing to the issue of being hisdishonest of her ethnicity. Good evening from new york. After months dancing around his ambitions and avoiding certain rules jeb bush becoming the 11th republican candidate to announce he is running for president addressing a fired up crowd. Bush touted his economic record as governor of florida way back in the boom years before the housing bubble popped. I know we can fix this because i have done it. We made florida number one in job creation and number one in Small Business creation, 1. 3 million new jobs. 4. 4 growth. Higher family income, eight balanced budgets and tax cuts eight years in a row. The speech included plenty of conservative red meat calculated to please the base. That at times has viewed bush with suspicion. When a school is just another dead end every parent should have the right to send their child to a better school, public, private or charter. If i am president we will take the power of choice away from unions and give it back to parents. Secretary clinton insists that when the Progressive Agenda encounters religious beliefs to the contrary, those beliefs, quote, have to be changed. With their phone it in Foreign Policy, the Obama Clinton kerry team is leading a legacy of crisis, violence unopposed, enemies unnamed, friends undefended and alliances unraveling. Bush tried to ease concerns that he feels entitled to the white house by virtue of his last name. I know there are a lot of good people running for president , quite a few, in fact. And not one of us deserves the job by right of resume, party, seniority, family or family narrative. It is nobodys turn. It is everybodys test and its wide open exactly as a contest for president should be. But the hash tag no more bushes was trending nationally on twitter throughout the speech and this line about his family probably didnt help. In this country of ours the most improbable can happen. Take that from a guy who met his first president on the day he was born and his second on the day he was brought home from the hospital. Bush talked at length about his wife from mexico and delivered a couple of lines in spanish his prepared remarks included zero mention of Immigration Reform. The issue forced interrupting the speech with the message legal status is not enough a reference to his past position. And they did that during bushs tribute to his mother. She is watching what i say and frankly with all these reporters around i am watching what she says, too. Our friends know the next president of the United States will pass meaningful Immigration Reform so that that will be solved not by executive order. Joining me now Michael Steele and mckay coppin, senior political writer. That to me was most interesting moment in the speech for this reason. The first thing a lot of people did when the remarks were emailed was look through and were surprised to find not a mention of immigration. They interrupt the speech and they get a mention of immigration out of him in response to that. They do. And its not surprising in the sense that he responded to it. It is a little bit curious that he didnt at least include some reference either in the biographical part where he is talking about his wife and his family even when he was speaking spanish. I think there may be more tactic involved than just trying to avoid the issue. I think he wanted to send a different kind of message at the beginning, not based around a substantive policy issue like immigration but thematically talk about the differences that he wants to move into in this campaign but not specifically with respect to policy. I think thats true. He largely avoided policy. It was particularly in contrast to Hillary Clintons speech which we will talk about which was very policy intensive. I thought i got to say i understand it is a little hard if you are the speech writer for this campaign to figure out how to deal with the fact that your brother and father are both president s. But the line, in this country of ours the most improbable things can happen like only in america can a man born to a president and the brother of a president be a president. What was that . That was a bad and strange note in an otherwise i think pretty good speech and performance. This issue about his the kind of dynasty question will be something that follows him throughout the campaign. He knows that. He is going to address it and answer questions. He knows he will have to keep answering questions about his father and brother. I was out with him in europe for the past week where he talked extensively about his father who is fairly popular in the countries that he visited and studiously avoided mentioning his brother at all costs. But to mention the third bush in a row could be president. The third bush in the family. That was a strange moment. I didnt take that away from it. I thought it was a pretty good line when you think about it. I think if he hadnt made some reference to his father and brother then the narrative would have been, look, bush is avoiding talking about his father and his brother. You are absolutely right. He is going to have to address it. I think he found a cute way to do it and it was nonoffensive and didnt amount to much more than a laugh in the speech and he moves on. You wrote a piece about jeb bush embarks on least Joyful Campaign ever. The joyless slog that has been the Bush Campaign thus far. Its a weird stylistic thing to note, but as a viewer it feels always when im watching him like this isnt someone enjoying this which the whole thing seems unenjoyable. I would be miserable if i were running for president. The reason i pointed it out is when he first started flirting with the president ial run the main question he had to answer for himself was can i do it joyfully. Ever since he said that if you observe him out on the campaign trail in europe, wherever he is there is a general joylessness that wafts off of him. And it goes to the fundamental i think rationale of his campaign which is that he believes he is a grown up in a field of unprepared, unserious candidates and in that way his candidacy is oppositional in nature. He wants to save his party, the Republican Party from people who he thinks are less serious. Thats come through in conversations i have had with people who know him for a long time, his aides. I think running a Campaign Like that is not by its very nature going to be a joyful, exciting, positive upbeat experience. The one place where he seemed to be most animated i thought was surprising and a window into the strategy of the jeb campaign in this primary is when he talked about the Little Sisters of the poor and this lawsuit that has to do with a conscious exemption in the Affordable Care act. It occurred that one smart thing they come up with is they find a sliver of venn diagram where they can lean into giving the religious right particularly red meat and leaned into that and was an indicator we see a lot more of that in this campaign. That is true to a certain degree. I dont know if it was just a play to the religious right. I think there is a lot of concern out there that every day folks religious or not has about the role have about the role the government plays with these types of organizations, charities and the like. I think there is still a lot of Unanswered Questions in that regard. I think he put down a marker saying i will be the guy very much like hillary wants to be the champion for certain things. He wants to be the guy to be a champion for protecting those rights against an intrusive government. Thank you both. Both jeb bush and Hillary Clinton made an interesting choice leaving out their famous last name, kind of just regular folks, hillary and jeb. In an interview this morning mitt romney of all people argued that Hillary Clinton is just too elite and too wealthy to connect with most american voters. Somehow when you see her on the stage or when she comes to a room full of people she is smiling with her mouth but her eyes are saying where is my latte. Latte. How can she sell a populist message when she makes in one hour a multiple of what the average american will make in a year . Asked about those comments clinton made her strongest case yet. I want everybody to have the same opportunities that i had and that my husband had. I dont think americans are against success. I think americans are against people who get on the top of the ladder and start pulling it up so nobody else has the same chance that they had. That fits in with the message she rolled out in new york city on saturday embracing the broad theme of combatting economic inequality. While many of you are working multiple jobs to make ends meet you see the top 25 Hedge Fund Managers making more than all of americas kindergarten teachers combined and often paying a lower tax rate. And that speech clinton embraced something she stayed very far away from in 2008, her gender. I may not be the youngest candidate in this race, but i will be the youngest woman president in the history of the United States. Joining me now Rebecca Traister whose daughter if i can editorialize, extremely adorable and awesome is in that shot in her little striped shirt. You were there with her. I thought that moment, that sound bite symbolized so much the ways in which the campaign seems to be constructed as a repudiation of 2008. Absolutely. She is running a different kind of campaign. Leading with pop you lichl. She is comparing herself to franklin roosevelt. That is a big move. After several decades of sucking up to Ronald Reagan and good things about reagan. Hillary has done things like that certainly talked about and lived compromised. And she is really sort of taking off in what feels like a very new direction compared to her recent political life by saying actually i am only going to work with willing partners. That was pretty direct. I thought so too. That was a very interesting line. This was not about the great reaching across the aisle. You come to me. Thats a big move to make. I thought the embracing of the historic candidacy the hardest question to answer is why do you want to be president . The truthful answer is im a deranged person because this is absolutely insane undertaking. I want to be the first woman president is a pretty darn good answer. Very progressive answer. The inverse of that which is lets have another guy. Thats not just symbolism. That has meaning. 230 years of male uninterrupted power. Its a progressive thing, in hillarys case a feminist arguably liberal president. You make this point in the piece you wrote which is basically Hillary Clinton was sort of introduced to america and the kind of tweet length version was meet this woman who is like a liberal feminist smarty pants. And then spent basically particularly starting in 2000 when she having to be elected herself as doing everything in her power to this is a 360. I dont want to make an argument that she is her authentic hillary self. She is a calculating politician. It is useless. It is all performance. When you watch campaigns you are watching theater. I am happy if the players are listening. Hillarys shift seems to indicate that she has noticed a change in mood and change in need and she seems to be trying to move towards it. I think that is a good thing. It does reflect a lot of work she did early in her career as a law student and young lawyer in arkansas. She was engaged in criminal defense, legal services. She was a public defender in arkansas, set up a legal aid clinic. Her investment in criminal Justice Reform has roots in her early career. That is something we forget when we take her to task for the role her husband played in terms of building a prison complex. Very good point. Thank you. Thank you so much. An unusual moment on the campaign trail as Hillary Clinton met the press. Plus, activists detained as they try to stop a drilling head. And the president of the naacp joins me after resignation of spokane naacp president. And tomorrow night, Rachel Dolezal speaks. 8 00 p. M. Tomorrow night. You do not want to miss that. You will not beat. Meeeeee greg. What should i do with your fish . Gary. Just put it in the cooler. If youre a fisherman, you tell tales. Its what you do. If you want to save fifteen percent or more on Car Insurance you switch to geico. Its what you do. Put the fish in the cooler audible safety beeping audible safety beeping audible safety beeping the nissan rogue with safety shield technologies. The only thing left to fear is you imagination. Nissan. Innovation that excites. As we enter the era of legalized marijuana, a unanimous decision. An employer can fire you for off duty pot use even medical marijuana. Brandon coats consumed pot off duty to help with muscle spasms. Colorado has a lawful off duty activity statute which prohibits employers from firing workers for engaging in lawful activities in their own time. Since pot is legal in colorado this would seem to qualify. But the Supreme Court found employees that engaged in activity such as medical marijuana use permitted understate law but unlawful under federal law are not protected. So, as legal use begins to pass this decision is an important reminder it is still clashing with federal law. The momentum behind legal weed seems clear. But at some point the federal government is going to have to do more than simply tolerate states experimentation. Congress and the president are going to have to take the politically risky and correct stance to legalize it nationally. Aleve pm. The only one to combine a sleep aid. Plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. Be a morning person again, with aleve pm. music boys . music stop less. Go more. The passat tdi clean diesel with up to 814 hwy miles per tank. Hurry in and you can get 0 apr plus a 1000 volkswagen credit bonus on 2015 passat tdi clean diesel models. Bennys the oldest dog in the shelter. He needed help all day so i adopted him. When my back pain flared up, we both felt it. I tried tylenol but it was 6 pills a day. With aleve its just two pills, all day. Now im back aleve. All day strong. Jeb bush running today. He is trying to say his last name doesnt matter. Any piece of advice for him on that . I have to say that is a very tempting question to answer but i wont. In the wake of mounting criticism from the press corps covering Hillary Clinton did something that she rarely does answered questions from reporters, some of them anyway. Journalists frustrated over what they believe is inadequate access to cover the Democratic Front runner. Far less willing to take questions than her rivals. If the access is unprecedented so is the media scrum. Clinton is being covered like a sitting president with overwhelming Media Tracking every move. This weekend more than 500 reporters showed up to cover her Campaign Kickoff speech which was aired live. Thats 500 reporters and that is crazy. One truism on political insiders is American People do not care whether or not the press corps is happy with how much access they are getting. And very few people blame Hillary Clinton for being wary of the media. It is not without consequences for the candidate and for the party she hopes to lead. Joining me now eric boehlert. I thought this was basically these fights are immaterial. Barack obama proved no one cares if the press whines about access. Yes. Right. The 500 reporters is probably more than covered obama four years ago. It is so over the top. Need for content. 16, 18 months out it is kind of ridiculous but they have to produce it. Lets write about ourselves and how unhappy we are and have a debate about access. So here is where i think it is important. It appears to be happening over the Trans Pacific partnership. Hillary clinton is running to get the nominee of the democratic party. This is possibly the most controversial issue i have seen in the time i have covered barack obama. He has got handed this. It seems important to get her views on this. This was her today answering a question on trade. Take a listen. The issue for me is what is in the deal . And i think now there is an opportunity for the president and his team to reach out and meet with the people who have sat on the floor like pelosi did that we need a better deal, not im against it no matter what is in it or im for it no matter what is in it. That was a masterful bit of not answering the question. It does seem important that the reason that access seems important to me is i would like to get a clear position from Hillary Clinton if you are in the senate how do you vote on trade Promotion Authority . She is running for president. If you are in the senate you are going to have to have a vote record. It seems like a basic standard to say where would you vote on this . She went to iowa and talked about it. Now the press is like we dont like that answer. We want a different answer. You can keep asking. They should keep asking her. I want a position. I am a democratic primary voter i want to know where she is on this issue and it seems that one of the sort of insidious aspects is it is easier to avoid that. Today showed you can take questions and not come down clearly. She is saying there is still a process. She is opposed to trade agreements in the past and supported trade agreements in the past. She is saying she wants to protect jobs and the environment. Lets have a conversation. There is a process. Here is the thing i find disingenuous. She was secretary of state. The deal was being worked out and negotiated while she was there. The beginnings of it. Its not like she is like getting on the air like what is the deal with this Trans Pacific partnership. She oversaw Foreign Policy arm of the American Government and was quite supportive of it during that stage. It seems that is important to be on the record. She has talked about it many times. She talked about the idea of trade deals, but, again, she is saying when we come to a final deal what is the house going to do . What is obama going to do . She is suggesting like pelosi they should work together. You think if there is another vote we will get a position from her on which side of that she is on . I assume so. She was saying some people would support it and some people would oppose it. She doesnt want to be in that position quite yet. The press can keep asking. Again, the point a couple of weeks ago she wouldnt talk about it. She talked about it today. I was glad to see it. Then its like we dont like the answer. Always a pleasure. Still ahead we check in with florida where a new bill would ensure governor rick scott cheap health care as he refuses to expand medicaid for fellow floridians. Except that managing my symptoms was all i was doing. 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In april a group of protesters dramatically boarded a shell rig as it was being towed across the ocean and camped on it for six days to protest the planned drilling. When the rig arrived in the port of seattle where shell is housing Arctic Drilling and equipment a large group of selfproclaimed kayaktivists formed a blockade. Today shell planned to start towing the rig to the arctic. Activists werent about to let that happen without a fight. They were back out on the water early this morning before the rig could depart. Once it started moving the protesters were in violation of a 500yard safety zone around the rig. The coast guard began pulling them out of their boats. 24 protesters were detained. They were then booked and fined 250. You might say they were portmantowed out of the water. The protesters say their fight is far from over and far from futile. Every minute protesters can delay is another chance for president obama to reconsider his disastrous approval of oil drilling in alaska and added it is not too late to stop the catastrophe before it starts. It took Tim Morehouse years to master the perfect lunge. But only one attempt to master depositing checks at chase atms. Technology designed for you. So you can easily master the way you bank. I heard i could call angies list if i needed work done around my house at a fair price. Sure can. So i could get a faulty light switch fixed . Yup or make a backyard pizza oven . Oh yeah. I can almost taste it now. Tastes like victory. And pepperoni. Summers heating up with royal caribbeans wow sale. Our biggest sale of the summer is going on now. Get a 50 reduced deposit. Plus up to 200 onboard spending money. And up to 30 off your cruise. Call 1800royalcaribbean or your travel agent today. When a moment spontaneously turns romantic why pause to take a pill . 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Contact your health plan for the latest information. When you do business everywhere, the challenges of keeping everyone working together can quickly become the only thing you think about. Thats where at t can help. With the tools and the network you need to make working as one easier than ever. Virtually anywhere. Leaving you free to focus on what matters most. Governor rick scott of florida got good news. The Florida House wants him to keep paying about 8 a month for Health Insurance courtesy of taxpayers in florida. Governor rick scott has, thanks to a vote from republican controlled house of representatives in florida, moved one step closer to maintaining his Current Health care arrangement. The bill in question would keep premiums at 8. 34 a month for individual coverage and 30 a month for family coverage for the rest of the year and 2016. Rank and file employees as well as state lawmakers pay more, 50 for individual coverage. 180 a month for family coverage. The bad news continues for 800,000 low income eligible to enroll in medicaid had it not been blocked by the republican controlled Florida House. Scotts position has vacillated but he is once again against it. It should come as no surprise that florida never opted for staterun health care exchange. If the Supreme Court rules against obamacare then floridians who receive federal subsidies could lose those subsidies, more than 1. 4 floridians. About six in ten people enrolled receive subsidies nationwide according to washington post. A total of 6. 4 million americans. Joining me now former senator and former governor of new hampshire. Judd gregg. Your Party Republicans have been referred to as the dog that caught the car or is about to catch the car if it gets the ruling it appears to want. What does the Republican Party do if the Supreme Court invalidates the subsidies . What do you think they should do . You are going to see them come forward with an aggressive and thoughtful approach, something that doesnt involve massive snafus that the obama plan has delivered, doesnt involve losing your doctor and losing your insurance and doesnt involve massive increases what is that . I would love for there to be a magical pixie world where nobody gets sick at all. Not magical world at all. It was proposed prior to obamacare being passed, a bill called cpr which would set up that system where you ensure people for care. No one would have lost their doctor . There would have been no bureaucratic snafus . Would have been a much more efficient and effective way to deliver health care than what we are dealing with today. You can throw words out but as a practical matter if you are not willing to consider alternatives which are substantive you should not be making statements. What do you base im sure what do you base that on . That it was more efficient . Because it was by definition more efficient and less costly. If you look at the obamacare proposal almost all the representations that it put forward have failed. You dont keep your own doctor. The costs have gone up significantly. You lose your insurance and more importantly than that uninsured folks didnt get picked up. Senator, that is just not true. The uninsured rates have plummeted to a 15year low. No it hasnt plummeted. Of course it has. Look at the date. It has not plummeted. It has gone from 44 million to 40 million. That is not a plummet. You think that is true . Yes, that is true. The rate of uninsured has gone down about six to eight Percentage Points since obamacare was effectuated. Six to eight points from 44 million person base is about 40 Million People. It is true. I wish you would get your numbers right. Your numbers are worse than obamas. Those numbers are correct. Your ability to understand your numbers is worse than obama. We will show that graph after we are done with this. Im sure you will show a graph. Im not sure it will be an accurate one. Well sho show the poll. Former senator gregg, thank you very much. Up next the president of the naacp shares his perspective on Rachel Dolezal and former head of the spokane naacp who just resigned. Days after her parents accused her of lying about her race. We just hope and pray that she will be successful in her pursuit to come into a more realistic and truthful way of living. No, like you havent seen a bed in weeks zzzquil. The non habit forming sleepaid that helps you sleep easily and wake refreshed. Because sleep is a beautiful thing. Audible safety beeping audible safety beeping audible safety beeping the nissan rogue with safety shield technologies. The only thing left to fear is you imagination. Nissan. Innovation that excites. Summers heating up with royal caribbeans wow sale. Our biggest sale of the summer is going on now. Get a 50 reduced deposit. Plus up to 200 onboard spending money. And up to 30 off your cruise. Call 1800royalcaribbean or your travel agent today. A lot of the white jewish students would question and say it is crazy that you are jewish but the black students wouldnt say the same thing. In that community they understood the full diversity of who we could be. I got the chance to talk with lacey schwarz, a filmmaker who discovered her biological father was black. I asked for her perspective. If you missed that interview you can watch it now on our Facebook Page. Ill be on facebook as i am every tuesday to answer your questions about everything. Head to our Facebook Page and ask me whatever you like. Please take a second to hit the like button while youre there. Thanks. Its part geek and part chic. Its part relaxation and part exhilaration. Its part sports car and part suv. And the best part . The 2015 gla. Its 100 mercedesbenz. When i started at the shelter, i noticed benny right away. I just had to adopt him. Hes older so he needs my help all day. When my back pain flared up we both felt it i took tylenol at first but i had to take 6 pills to get through the day. Then my friend said try aleve. Just two pills, all day. And now, im back for my best bud aleve. All day strong and try aleve pm now with an easy open cap. [container door opening] what makes it an suv is what you can get into it. [container door closing] what makes it an nx is what you can get out of it. Introducing the firstever lexus nx turbo and hybrid. Once you go beyond utility theres no going back. Former senator judd gregg and i had a teteatete on the record of obamacare. I said it dropped by about six to eight Percentage Points and there you see the percentage of people uninsured by quarter was 18 of the high before obamacare implemented. Goes down to 11. 9 . That is a drop of about six Percentage Points or about a third of the people who are unemployed. If a third were 44 Million People then that is a lot more than 4 Million People who now have Health Insurance at least by my back of the envelope math. Sitting here, loif live on television. Tonight the saga of Rachel Dolezal continues to unfold as perhaps most controversial person to serve resigns from her post. The civil rights activist accused of misrepresenting herself as black announced she was stepping down. Dolezal repeatedly identified herself as black until dolezals parents spoke to reporters noting the racial makeup is overwhelmingly white. The proof came from a birth certificate and photos offered up. A stark contrast to dolezals current appearance posting a statement on the naacp Facebook Page that reads i will never stop fighting for human rights and will do everything in my power to help and assist whether it means stepping up or down because this is not about me but about justice. This is not me quitting but a continuum. The university where dolezal had a parttime teaching position says her contract with the school ended on friday and she is no longer employed as her parents who have been estranged from their daughter continue to speak publically. She had this reaction to her daughters resignation. I n resignation there was no actual addressing of the issue of being dishonest about her ethnicity nor was there any apology. So i see that as a first step in her path to moving away from the negative feelings that she has had towards her family members. The national naacp issued this statement. The naacp is not concerned with the racial identity of our leadership. Ms. Rachel dolezal decided to resign to ensure the branch remains focused on fighting for human rights. Joining me now Cornell William brooks. When this story first broke which is a fascinating one. I think a lot of people are quite compelled by it. The national naacp saying we are standing by her. A lot of people were a little surprised by that statement. I am curious to hear your organizations thinking in releasing that statement. The naacp is a bottom up organization. When you talk to people in spokane about leadership she was widely respected as an advocate and a Branch President. So the initial story around her racial identity did not speak to her leadership so we made clear that we as an organization have never regarded ones racial identity as a qualifying or disqualifying characteristic for leadership. That has never been the case. So we stood by her record as a Branch President of the naacp. No more, no less than that. Why do you think the story has captivated people the way it has . I think this story has been about race and about who gets to call themselves an africanamerican. But at the end of the day what is really important here certainly from the Vantage Point of naacp is, its not a question of racial identity but a question about our commitment to bringing about an end of racism. That is the work of the naacp. So if you look at her Resignation Letter she resigns or she states as a reason for resigning allowing the branch to focus on the work. And the work is most important. At the end of the day it is our institutional integrity, our commitment to the issues, not the distractions of any particular individuals that is significant, that is important here. It does strike me from the perspective institutional integrity the most troubling issue isnt about her talking about her background or fabricating who her father was. Its the idea that some of the complaints she filed about hate crimes could have possibly been fabricated. We know that investigations into them have been suspended, but it strikes me from the perspective of the organization that would be the most important thing to get to the bottom of. We dont know. And we dont want to go beyond the facts. What we do know is for 106 years the naacp has been a trusted voice on americas most profound social justice challenges and civil rights challenges. And we value that. At the end of the day those letters naacp mean something to this country. They represent a certain integrity and commitment. And we are committed to doing real work, work that speaks to the power of those letters. So these reality tv moments are just that, moments. They do not obliterate and will not distract us from the work we have been doing for well over a century and work. It needs to be done now. We see children being traumatized at pool parties, where we see young people being racially profiled, that is important work. That is what we have to focus on and what we care about. What kind of things are you hearing . I know from reporting on naacp it really is about an organization. Are you getting flack for this episode . What we are hearing is that there are people who are deeply disappointed and pained by this experience. But theyre pained not merely because of what happened with this one Branch President but to the extent that it is a distraction from real work. For example, today we announced in a long scheduled press event a major initiative, americas journey for justice, a march from selma, alabama, to washington d. C. Were looking forward to following up on that march. Thanks. Still, the Massive Public reaction to Rachel Dolezal. Theres a more enjoyable way to get your fiber. Try phillips fiber good gummies plus energy support. Its a new fiber supplement that helps support regularity and includes b vitamins to help convert food to energy. Mmmmm, these are good nice work, phillips the tasty side of fiber, from phillips. music boys . music stop less. 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Well start working on some Financing Options right away. Thanks, joe. Oh, yeah. Its a gamechanger for the rockclimbing industry. This is one strong rope huh joe . Oh, yeah its incredible how you doing team . Jeff you good . [jeff] i think i dropped my keys. [announcer] you work hard to build your company. Wells fargo will work right alongside you, bringing the expertise your Company Needs to move forward. Wells fargo. Together well go far. I take these out. To put in dr. Scholls active series insoles. They help reduce wear and tear on my legs, becuase they have triple zone protection. And reduce shock by 40 . So i feel like im ready to take on anything. Professor of africana studies. One interesting part of this fascinating saga which is unfolding, which i like everyone, just cant turn away from. It unleashed a lot of great sophisticated meditations on the nature of race. I thought yours was one of the best. You write this. Rachel dolezal is not black by lineage yet i find her deceptions less troubling than than vexed criteria being usesed to exclude her. You also say, she was lying about a lie. What does that mean . I dont think of her as someone who is black. I dont think you can simply darken your skin and declare you have this identity. But at the same time if were honest about this whole category of race, we know it doesnt exist. So at the same time as we are saying, that okay, we have some problems with her summarily deciding she is part of this community, we have to be very real and say this is not a real discrete category in the first place. This is where things get so but in another level it very much does exist. How do you explain the distinction between the fact that it does and does not exist . Right. So what has happened is that there was kind of a, you know, central lie, an original lie. And, you know this lie was used to distort, you know the humanity of a particular set of individuals for reasons that relate to the birth of capitalism and exploitation and slavery and all these things. So im quite sure the first people who were enslaved understood this was a lie, but the community that came out of this lie is very real based upon because it was forged by hundreds of years forged by history, shared experience and so on. And so i think the thing that she did that was most offensive to me is not that she created this false biography which i thought was kind of silly or weird, but because of the nature of slavery and the large amount of rape that happened in the institution of slavery, you know black america has kind of gotten a policy where we dont check peoples membership at the door. Were not going to ask you to prove your black identity because all of us have white ancestry. You say this thing in the piece about it is like faith in that we if you confess to be a certain religion we dont check. You are. And you say blackness in america functionally functions that way. Right. Because i was raised catholic. I dont remember someone saying coming up and saying when was your confirmation . Just the idea that we are a part of this community, we take you for your word. For instance i taught as a fullbright professor in moscow. And i remember having an interesting conversation with russian students who were kind of perplexed that someone who maybe looked like viola davis would be considered in the same category as someone who looks like halle berry, saying how are these people considered the same . Very good question. It is because the nature of slavery has been such that in the same family we can have people who look this way and talk about that in the piece. You yourself. Yeah. My father you know was a darkcomplexioned man with black hair and brown eyes. He had a sister with reddish hair, light skin and grayish eyes. We understood this european lineage pops up when it pops up. This is something that you write about in this new book coming out, a phenomenal book about arriving at Howard University which is where you went and she went and being amazed by the incredible diversity of blackness in this place. Thats right. And so whats strange about this, and i think kind of a plug for my friends book between the world and me, he talks about this really well. Its kind of a common narrative we had, where theres such a broad variety of people who fit under this category. I met a person who was half africanamerican and half inowit and he fit in as part of this community. Nobody was going to say you are not part of this community. There was nowhere else that was going to meet someone half africanamerican and half inowit. And then you have to imagine we found this crazy wrinkle. She sued the university apparently as a white person for discriminating against her for her whiteness. And at some point after losing that lawsuit, apparently decided, im going to go over to the other side. It is like i voted for it before i voted against it. If you cant beat them, join them, literally, kind of idea. Its bizarre. I think this kind of weird, you know humorous subtext of this that you look at this and go, what exactly is going to here . Really it does touch upon things that are really very sensitive in the idea of like who is considered black and who isnt. We should say sensitive in terms of what is happening with that family with the parents doing interview after interview sort of blowing up her spot. I mean theres obviously, theres a familial drama that is pretty intense. Its always such a pleasure to have you. Thank you. Thats it for all in this evening. Tomorrow night Rachel Dolezal will sit down with Melissa Harrisperry here on all in. Rachel maddow starts right now. Thanks my friend. Thanks for staying with us for the next hour. Even for things that we are pretty good at, even for things that we are paid to do, all of us have our limits. Part of being an adult is recognizing the outer boundaries of what we are capable of as people. So my job, for instance is understanding and explaining the news. And in order to do that job, i do a lot of exposition in terms of just the raw, factual explanation of whats going to in the world and in the news. I also do analysis a little analysis thrown in to explain about whats important