Democratic party. And Fact CheckingDonald Trumps latest tilt at windmills. The wind is a very deceiving thing. We dont make the windmills in the United States. When all in starts right now. Good evening from new york. Im chris hayes. In his interview with the New York Times yesterday, president elect donald trump described the type of people he wants to work in his administration, quote, were trying very hard to get the best people. Not necessarily people that will be the most politically correct people because that hasnt been working. So we have really experts in the field. Some are known and some are not known but theyre known within their field as being the best. Thats very important to me. So trump says its very important to get experts in their field, people known to be the best. Thats what he told the New York Times. Heres what he did today. Trump tapped at his ambassador to the united nations, someone with virtually no experience in international diplomacy, South Carolina republican governor nicky haley who said she accepted the position out of a sense of duty. Trump, of course, as is want hit back, tweeting. It will help trump quiet critics who noted the first five picks for his jobs were white men. Also a gift to one of trumps most loyal backers. South carolina Lieutenant GovernorHenry Mcmaster who n nominated trump for president at the Republican National convention and will now be promoted to governor, not a bad career break for him. Yesterday trump tweeted he was seriously considering dr. Ben carson as the head of hud, today carson suggested trump had made the offer writing on facebook that an announcement is forthcoming about my role in helping to make America Great again. The Carson Campaign is now knocking down reports carson has accept the position. But if trump were to tap carson for hud, it would be a pretty remarkable choice and not because trump once compared him to a pathological. I dont want a person who has a pathological disease. He said it. Im not saying hes a pathological liar. Im not saying it. He says hes got pathological disease. Theyll work that out. But much like nikki haley, carson has zero relevant experience to the job trump is vying him for. What would steer you to take a job for which a lot of folks say that you have these ample medical degrees and one of the nations top neurosurgeons, what do you know about doing this . Well, i know that i grew up in the inner city. I have spent a lot of time there and have dealt with a lot of patients from that area. And recognize that we cannot have a strong nation if we have weak inner cities. Having spent time in the, quote, inner cities, growing up there, qualifies carson to run hud, there are literally millions of people who are equally qualified for the job. Last week when reports said that carson was being considered for secretary of health and human services, his business manager, armstrong williams, who tends to speak for him told the news that carson doesnt have the experience to run a federal bureaucracy and wleev believes would be a disservice to try to do so. The last thing hed want to do is take a position that could cripple the presidency. Despite that, carson could soon lead an agency that enforces fair housing laws or doesnt sometimes and overseas funding for Public Housing among many more responsibilities. Joining me now Morgan State University johnson and josh barro business insider. I got to say like you know this feels like he was maybe going to get hhs. His own spokesperson says hes not qualified to run a federal agency. And now hes being floated for hud which just seems like a blatant humiliation of the department. I have go back to last fall when ben carson cared so much about his campaign that he took two weeks off to go on a book tour. This is not a man who has ever cared about being president. This is not a man who has ever cared about government. This is a man who earlier this Campaign Season said well im kind of endorsing trump because he offered me the best deal. Hes grotesquely unqualified for this position. Its an embarrassment that he would accept it. This speaks to the mind of donald trump. Let me stick the black guy over in housing and urban development regardless of what his actual skill set might be. But thats fitting for someone who picked a white supremacist for his senior counsel. This is a world im familiar with. And in a weird way, i think there is this idea that maybe we better have carson who doesnt know anything and has no qualifications than someone who is superqualified to destroy Public Housing or to like wage war on the department. Maybe, although the thing that i find weird about this is trump made his fortune building middle class housing, donald trump complained in the art of the deal about the withering away of federal subsidies for apartment construction. You can imagine if anyone can actually find someone they know who is competent for the job, it would be the first Real Estate Developer president in history. Exactly. And i would not expect donald trump of all people to think of huds a a throwaway department. It is not just managing housing projects. I would think that donald trump would think this is an important position. It is an important position. But i would expect him to think that it is. There are other things that are important that i would say he wouldnt care about. I wonder if he would get confirmed if he was named. I think hed have a problem. Hes so obviously unqualified. If youre a republican senator, think a lot of these senators resent people like ben carson who run these scam campaigns, i mean, especially to donald trump who won the nomination with one. And is going to be president of the United States. If youre ben sass or some other senator who doesnt care for donald trump and doesnt care for the circus of the republican party, this seems like a place you might vote no on the confirmation. The nikki haley pick, which again in the category of plausible republicans to take positions in an administration doesnt seem like a terrible pick. Shes a republican. She has some experience. But also just a little out of nowhere from the experiencen shall stand. Point and i love the fact that this is a huge promotion for one of his earliest backers who now gets to take the throne. President elect trump has managed to pay off so many different people already in two weeks of being made president elect. This is what i think is really important and somewhat problematic about nicky haley, not that she has no international experience, shes had a few meetings with sort of Indian Business people giving her family connections, but its not as if she even has a large amount of Foreign Investment as governor in South Carolina. She knows nothing about this particular area shes being put in. And given that donald trump said i want to tear up nato, get rid of the iran deal, i want to get out of the paris agreement, it actually would matter to have someone at the u. N. Who knows the job. Yes. Or given the fact that i think it is not i do not think it is an overstatement to say in many ways the world feels as unstable and precarious right now as at any time in the last 60 years. And the u. N. Is a key body to navigate that in. Although im trying to prioritize my outrage. Yeah, sure. Like john bolton. You can have someone who knew a lot about Foreign Policy. My sense is that thats right. Haley is in the mainstream of the republican party, seems to be a smart talented person right. South carolina has an especially nasty politics that she has negotiated in a diplomatic way that gives her a raw skill set at the u. N. Even if she doesnt have direct Foreign Relations experience. As for why shed want the job, nicky haley probably wants to run for president. Right, right. If she takes this job, shell have Foreign Policy experience. I want to before we leave, there was someone floated for treasury today that you were freaking out about. Yes. Someone sort of vaguely familiar. His name is john allison. The former ceo of the Regional Bank bb t. He ran the libertarian kato think tank. Hes an ideologue on banking, get rid of the federal reserve, most banking regulation. To get rid of deposit insurance, just to be clear. Yes. To have much more capital and get rid of all these complex rules just make them have much more cash. I think it would be quite a bad pick. He told the president in 2008 let it all fail, yeah. On the other hand, i think wall street would not like his nomination. My hope is that there would be a coalition of republicans and democrats that would kill the nomination. If term we have for that back in the era of depression is liquidationists. Thanks to you both. Trumps other big announcement was his choice for secretary of education. Koch brothers mega donor becky devoes and vouchers at the expense of traditional public education. Trump has proposed spending 20 billion on socalled School Choice initiatives which politico reports is almost as much as the country spends in serving poor kids. Theyve been described as the driving force behind the expansion of School Voucher programs in his home state of michigan. Now with a higher share of students in Charter Schools in any city other than new orleans. Those schools have far fewer regulations and many students feel they have lots of choice with no good choice as half the charters perform only as well or worse than the traditional schools. Im guessing the aft is not superpsyched with this pick. No. I mean, look, if trump wanted somebody who was the big destroyer of public education, thats what he got. He says theres no regulation he likes and, frankly, theres no Public School levy he likes. We were concerned about this when he raised the 20 billion. Because thats more money than goes to every single poor kid from the federal government for education in america right now. And its actually more money than goes to every single special needs kid in america right now. At the end of the day what we see is he picked somebody who will destabilize or will attempt to destabilize let me ask you this, you represent the teachers union, a large one. Is there any one that a republican president , if it were marco rubio or anyone else, can you imagine a president choosing a secretary of education that you would be happy with . Yes. Ultimately you can see a secretary of education that actually came from a state because think about this. We created a coalition with a lot of conservative groups including Lamar Alexander and john kline on the change of federal education policy to bring that policy back to the local communities to let teachers and parents actually run their own schools. And to make sure that the federal government did the equity work but to let people actually focus on children not on testing. And what we saw, chris, is that in detroit where i spent a lot of time this year, the business community, the faith community, the labor community, parents, teachers, the mayor, we all came together on a rescue plan for detroit schools which passed the Republican Senate in michigan the one person who hated it was betsy devos. And she spent 1. 4 million think about draining the swamp in about six weeks to stop that plan. The labor rights continued. What did she want to stop . That plan required charters to be accountable. To require the same Playing Field and the same thing for kids as Public Schools. She wanted none of it and thats why she stopped it. She is also someone i mean, this is in some ways the first pick thats the most connected to the kind of Koch Brothers ideological wing of the republican movement. Absolutely. They give lots of money. Shes very clear about the fact that they would like to get rid of public education. They should call it government education. This is a very hardedged agenda. This is whats so ironic. Because remember donald trump the last few weeks said drain the swamp, drain the swamp, this is somebody who uses money to buy influence. A little quote. I know a Little Something about soft money as my family is the largest single contributor of soft money to the National Republican party. I have decided however to stop taking offense at the suggestion that we are buying influence. Now i simply concede the point. Thats who she is. What shes peddling are things that for 25 years havent worked. We had voucher plans for 25 years. What they have done is drained funding out of Public Schools. 31 straights pay less for Public Schools than they did before the recession and these cities, this drains money and it doesnt help kids. In an era in which arne duncan where think tanks have gotten behind Charter Schools, is the ideological difference between what she represents and what arne duncan represented that large . Yes. Because theres a difference between having charters look, i dont like what arne did about testing. Yes, you guys are very critical. Trying to make as you heard me say common core, make it about testing as opposed to about teaching. Theres a lot of excesses that were reined in in the new federal aid policy. I gave the president a lot of credit because he saw the excesses and he worked at it. This is the difference. Arne duncan never wanted to destabilize schools and use vouchers and charters that way. I run a charter in the south bronx, we have a 100 graduation rate. It got one of the new blue ribbon awards. The point is charters were supposed to have a bigger role in a larger system. As opposed to randy winegarten, appreciate it. There are already ominous signs about his potential conflicts of interest including his own suggestion that he could run his own business from the oval office. He actually said that. I would always answer hispanic. So when i got my ancestry dna results it was a shocker. Im everything. Im from all nations. I would look at forms now and wonder what do i mark . Because im everything. And i marked other. Discover the story only your dna can tell. Order your kit now at ancestrydna. Com. But my back pain was making it hard to sleep and open up on time. Then i found aleve pm. The only one to combine a sleep aid plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. Now im back. Aleve pm for a better am. To whom does he owe money . To whom does he owe favors . With whom is he secretly partnered . Who is holding an economic gun to his head as hes poised to become the single most powerful person in the world . We dont know his creditors, his sources of income, his potential conflicts of interest. We dont know the things that really matter and we arent going to know. One of the things we said on this show and kept stressing was that people, the media, political world were generally underappreciating the scope of possible conflicts of interest should donald trump actually become president and allow his children to run his real estate empire as he claimed he would. I have ivanka and eric and don sitting there. Run the company, kids, have a good time. Im going to do it for america. I would be willing to so youll put your assets in a blind trust . I would put it in a blind trust. Well, i dont know if its a blind trust if ivanka and don and eric run it. Is that a blind trust . I dont know. Again, no, that is not a blind trust. Trump indicated his business was peanuts compared to the big league importance of running the country. This is big league stuff. This is our country. Our country is going bad. Were going to save our country. I dont care about hotel occupancy. Its peanuts compared to what were doing. But now here in an interview with the New York Times heres trump bragging that he could run his business out of the white house if he wanted to. Cooring to the law see i figured theres something where you put something in this massive trust and theres always nothing is written. In other words, in theory, could run my business 100 , sign checks on my business, i could run my business perfectly and then run the country perfectly. And there was never theres never been a case like this where somebodys had like if you look at other people of wealth, they didnt have this kind of asset and this kind of wealth, frankly. Its just a different thing. But there is no i assumed that youd have to set up some type of trust or whatever and you know. And i was actually a little bit surprised to see it. So in theory i dont have to do anything. But i would like to do something. I would like to try and formalize something because i dont care about my business. So i dont have to do anything but i want to do something if i can. The totally historically unprecedented opportunity as trump notes, first corruption or hypocrisy of someone being president with an enterprise is now here. His latest piece is trumps conflicts will become crippling. This is something thats not really ideological. Not about obamacare reappeal or public education, just whether you can trust that the president is doing the peoples business and not trump orgs business. You can posit trump as some evil guy who is in this just to get himself even richer, but thats totally unnecessary. The normal measure we use when looking at these things, a conflict of interest, do their financial interests and their supposed serving of the national interests, does it conflict . And even if it happens on a subconscious level, we have to be worried about. The example i used was his tenant, the industrial and commercial bank of china, the largest bank in the world and its a stateowned enterprise by the communist government of china. Thats a problem. Because a lot of our Foreign Policy clashes with china having these stateowned enterprises. Even if hes not trying to enrich himself, the fact that he has one pull which is how his company would profit and another pull serving the public interest, thats problematic. It seems to me, one of the things about that example which i havent really thought of was that bank is a tenant in trump tower. They collects checks from them. As a landlord presumably. Is part of this also that it seems like if i were politically advising him and i wanted his agenda to succeed. It does seem like something thats going to be a pain. I mean, in the same way that you saw before the election a lot of people saying theyre going to have to shut down the Clinton Foundation because whatever you think of it and i tended to think that the conflict stuff was overblown but the perception was real, you dont want to deal with this every day. And if i were advising president elect trump i think i would probably be telling him the same thing. No, thats exactly right. That Elijah Cummings and msnbc are going to come after trump for every apparent conflict. We care about the peoples business being done and conflicts. It makes it easier for him to get done what he says hell get done if he clears it away. The other thing is trumps personality. And this is the part that worries me. We know how sort of impressionable he is. A lot of people think hes a hardline right winger, thats all bogus. Hes very impressionable. If you ask him, what do you think of this person, chuck schumer. Oh, schumer was good when i had this real estate deal. How people treat him affects how he cease them. We kind of laugh when george w. Bush said he looked into the eyes of Vladimir Putin and saw his soul. Now, if Vladimir Putin or if erdogan in turkey or somebody treats one of his businesses well, is that all it takes to convince trump right, to curry favor, right. Thats where im worried that trump is very impressionable even with no bad intent his businesses make him susceptible to that sort of thats a great point, too because you dont even have to posit this dark profit motive, that hell use the office to profit. All you have to say is if erdogan starts steering business or regulatory favors to Turkish Properties or the same thing happens in another place, right, does that essentially end up currying state favor with the most powerful person in the world when theyre having relations with that country . No, and thats right. Then you see it on a dozen other levels where the international stuff is the stuff that worries me. On the domestic stuff, i think this is where my conservative free market stuff i think clears up a lot of the corruption where you say if youre not handing out subsidies, its not that big of a deal. But on the Global International stuff, those conflicts are always there. Tim carnie, thanks for your time tonight. Thank you. A boorish real estate man head of state. Who most resembles donald trump. Ya sleepin . Come on what time is it . Its go time. Come on. Lets go, lets go, lets go. Woooo hoooo yeah i feel like i went to bed an hour ago. Ill make the cocoa. Get a great offer on the car of your grownup dreams at the mercedesbenz winter event. Its the look on their faces that make it all worthwhile. Thank you santa now lease the 2017 c300 for 389 a month at your local mercedesbenz dealer. Heres something American Voters maybe probably definitely should have known about before the election. Wall street journal reported today that donald trump jr. Held talks on syria with pro russian supporters at an event in paris on october 11th that focused in part on finding a way to cooperate with russia to end the war in syria. Heres the front page of the think tank that hosted the event now proudly showing don jr. With fabian bossault who along with his wife has worked closely in the russian syrian. There is hope that russia and the u. S. Will reach accord on the issue of the Syrian Crisis because of trumps victory. Such hope and belief is the result of my personal meeting with donald trump jr. In paris in october. I succeeded to pass trump through the talks with his son the idea of how we could cooperate together. Kelly anne conway confirmed the meeting but said that don was addressing a roundtable in paris and she was present at that talk and a group dinner for 30 people. The timing of this matters, it took place one week after the u. S. Suspended talks with russia over the ceasefire. Which the u. N. Said resulted in at least 376 civilian deaths over two weeks. So it was just days after the u. S. Called out russia for potential war crimes that donald trump jr. Spoke with proassad sparters. One wrote i succeeded to pass trump through the talks with his son, the idea of how we could cooperate together. Air strikes in aleppo resume as russia begins new offensive in syria. We dont normally expect that being the child of a nations future president is enough to qualify you for key matters of state craft. But of course, were in a whole different world now. After the break, the world leader who may be most annal o dwus to trump. Emaciated. He was skin and bones. Usually what you see in neglected dogs. It was one of those complete, meanttobe moments. I totally fell in love with him. avo through the subaru share the love event, weve helped the aspca save nearly thirty thousand animals so far. Get a new subaru, and well donate another two hundred and fifty dollars to help those in need. Put a little love in your heart. When youre close to the people you love, does psoriasis ever get in the way of a touching moment . If you have moderate to severe psoriasis, you can embrace the chance of completely clear skin with taltz. Taltz is proven to give you a chance at completely clear skin. With taltz, up to 90 of patients had a significant improvement of their psoriasis plaques. In fact, 4 out of 10 even achieved completely clear skin. Do not use if you are allergic to taltz. Before starting you should be checked for tuberculosis. Taltz may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. Tell your doctor if you are being treated for an infection or have symptoms. Or if you have received a vaccine or plan to. Inflammatory bowel disease can happen with taltz. Including worsening of symptoms. Serious allergic reactions can occur. Nows your chance at completely clear skin. Just ask your doctor about taltz. G new cars. Nows your chance at completely clear skin. Youre smart. You already knew that. But its also great for finding the perfect used car. Youll see what a fair price is, and you can connect with a truecar certified dealer. Now youre even smarter. This is truecar. P is for permission to indulge. O is for out of this world. L is for loving the seasonal cuisine. A is for access to everything, including the aisle. R is for reclining in tailormade bedding. And i, must be dreaming. S. So long, jet lag. Polaris, from united. Only new alkaseltzer plus justfree of artificial dyes and preservatives liquid gels delivers the powerful cold symptom relief you need without the unnecessary additives you dont. Store manager clean up, aisle 4. Alkaseltzer plus liquid gels. President elect donald trump came to power from business rather than politics. He boasted to reporters that he can be the president of the United States and run my business 100 . Weve learned his children will be directly running his international business. The domestic business reportedly Holding State craft by holding talks about russian supporters. It feels like america has entered a new system of government in just these last two weeks. But look no further than another businessman turned politician. Silvio berlusconi. He said of trump, there are obvious similarities. Hes a billionaire who made his first fortune as a Real Estate Developer. He catered to the misogynistic rhetoric and his critics disagreed with him and saw him as unfit to run the country. The end result, the longest serving prime minister. Served for nine years until 2011 when eu leaders forced him to resign. While the parallels are apt, there are key differences. While trump seemed to steamroll the Party Berlusconi founded his own party. The most crucial distinction, berlusconi analogies are compelling in many ways but italy doesnt have nuclear weapons. In a piece from september 2015 entitled donald trump is americas Silvio Berlusconi she wrote it would be a terrible mistake for americas political establishment to dismiss trumps political appeal and presume him unelectable. Start by explaining where you see the pair are legrallels tha important between these two figures. Hi, chris, thank you for having me. First of all, we see it all over the place. The conflict of interest, the fact that they are not only businessmen but they want to continue with their transactional way of doing business even when theyre in office. Trump and berlusconi alike continue doing businesses even after they were elected. Berlusconi had the Parliament Approve or tried to approve 13 laws to help his business or to shield him from indictment. I mean, the smell of corruption is all over the place since the moment donald trump was elected. His daughters, his sons participated in meetings that he had with dignitaries, heads of states, lets talk about the japanese meeting, the indian partner meeting, even the phone call with arj teenian president , where the next day all his businesses were approved and sudden he had full access everywhere. Hes not even trying to hide that hes trying to enrich himself. In the New York Times meeting from yesterday he said something like, yeah, obviously his name is becoming hot. He used that word. Meaning we will do business all over the place. The problem with that, governments around the world will smell corruption and will think that actually the only way to please the president of the United States is to allow his businesses to grow in their own country. So you have the biggest case of conflict of interest, and i would say borderline corruption. One of the things about berlusconi who also mixed his official role in business and ran a media empire essentially as head of state was also sort of his enduring popularity in the face of both corruption scandals and all kinds of behavior public feuds with his wife, parties with sex workers, extremely crass and offensive comments, all sorts of behavior that people thought would be disqualifying, yet he had an appeal that persisted past that. Talk about that. Its exactly what happened with trump because anyone who looked at what trump was doing, he was deflecting from the real issues. We never knew what his policies would be, what he would do regarding we knew what he would do to mirnnorities, obviously that was appealing to some hate groups, islamphobic and xenophobic groups that were looking to get back into power and exclude all the minorities. On the other hand, we never knew what he would do about education and other but his way, we kept talking about his insults to megyn kelly and to this and that and we basically fall into the trap of talking about trump all the time. He personified politics. Exactly like berlusconi. So the politics in italy was, i would say, dominated by berlusconi because he was the center of politics. They kept talking about his scandals, his insults, his gaffes here and there. And he kept giving them that and basically he dominated italian politics for so long because he decimated the opposition. To opposition couldnt come up with any formula to appeal to the Public Opinion. He saw the Public Opinion and dream become rich like him and have beautiful women around him. He even bragged about seducing some heads of state who wasnt good looking and he said that he had to seduce and sacrifice himself. He used to say that hes the jesus christ of politics. Trump is saying that hell create millions of jobs, this is exactly what berlusconi did. He promised to create millions of jobs. By the time he left Office People were more poor and he doesnt create any jobs. The only person that got rich was himself. The problem with that in america, i think sooner or later when reality will hit and it usually hits, its like gravity. People will wake up to a disaster as Foreign Policy, a disaster on economic policies and above all the smell of corruption all over the place. Thanks for joining us. I appreciate it. Still to come, while Hillary Clinton ra clintons popular vote lead continues to grow. Thing 1, thing 2 next. Afoot and lighthearted i take to the open road. Healthy, free, the world before me, the long brown path before me leading wherever i choose. The east and the west are mine. The north and the south are mine. All seems beautiful to me. I have a big meeting when we land, but im so stuffed up, i cant rest. Nyquil cold and flu liquid gels dont unstuff your nose. They dont . Alkaseltzer plus night liquid gels fights your worst cold symptoms. Plus, unstuffs your nose. Oh, what a relief it is. You got all these windmills all over the place going, driving you loco when you look at them, right . The wind is very tough because those windmills are very, very expensive and they kill the birds and they look very terrible. The wind turbine that kills all the bald eagles. Thats okay with them. The wind kills all your bird. All your birds killed. Windmills are great but a lot of times the wind doesnt blow, folks. And a lot of times its killing your eagles and your birds and you know, things. Thing 1 tonight, donald trump has never been shy about sharing his dislike for wind power. He wasnt about to start yesterday. When pressed about reports that he push an effort to keep off shore wind farms away from one of his scottish golf courses during a meeting with british politician and brexit nigel farouge. He used it to criticize wind power instead. Was i involved with the wind farms recently . Not that i know. You brought it up in a meeting. I might have brought it up. But not having to do with me. Just, i mean, the wind is a very deceiving thing. First of all, we dont make the windmills in the United States. Theyre made in germany and japan. We dont make the wind mills in the United States. Fact check is thing 2. And open up on time. Then i found aleve pm. The only one to combine a sleep aid plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. Now im back. Aleve pm for a better am. It. When that laxour loves your body back. Only miralax hydrates, eases, and softens to unblock naturally. So you have peace of mind from start to finish. Love your laxative. Miralax. According to donald trump when it comes to renewable wind energy, quote, we dont make the windmills in the United States. Its categorically untrue. Two years ago as part of our all in america cities we followed wind turbine blades to a wind farm in south dakota. The technology came from ge, an american corporation. Heres some of what we reported back in october 2014. We invest in a lot of technology to be able to develop new controls that allow you to operate the turbine in those conditions. Those designs are made into reality in factories like l m wind power in south fork, north dakota. The plant runs seven days a week and they expect to produce 1800 blades this year alone. Sometimes five are coming out every single day. Last month ge announced plans to purchase Lm Wind Power which now employs 960 people in grand forks, north dakota. 88 of the wind Power Capacity installed in the u. S. During 2015 used a turbine manufacturer with at least one u. S. Manufacturing facility. I love my shop, but my back pain was making it hard to sleep and open up on time. Then i found aleve pm. The only one to combine a sleep aid plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. Now im back. Aleve pm for a better am. In the two weeks since the election electoral history is quietly being made. The counting of ballots goes on well past election day. Hillary clintons popular vote margin now exceeds 2 million votes. Thats almost as big as the population of houston, americas fourth largest city. As a share of the total vote, that translates to a margin of 1. 5 . A historic popular vote edge for a candidate who lost the Electoral College. And much bigger than john f. Kennedys winning margin over Richard Nixon in 1960 and bigger than nixons margin over Hubert Humphrey eight years later. The overall vote total is closing in on president obamas from 2012. A pretty unprecedented split. The product of a highly polarized electorate increasingly sorting itself along geographic line. This is the standard electoral map showing which candidates won each, trump 290 to clintons 228. Now compare that to county courtesy of the New York Times. A ring of blue along the outer edges and along chicago. Many of those red areas got redder this year while the blue areas got bluer. Check out this map showing how the vote changed from 2012. All those red areas show where donald trump did better than mitt romney. The blue arrows show where clinton outperformed obama. A lot more red than blue. But clinton made significant gains in metropolitan areas and the country. Harris county, texas, which is home to houston, this year clinton blew trump out of the water by more than 12 points. Again, this isnt austin were talking about, its houston, george w. Bush country. Geography is just one of the ways the electorate divided itself up. Another one was economic activity. Clinton won fewer than 25 counties overall but that provided 64 of gdp. The metropolitan areas clinton won are where most of the new jobs are being generated where most people of color tend to live, with immigrants settle down, with College Graduates settle down after getting their degrees. The divisions are mapping on to the same geographic distribution we see in the map of election votes results by county. What this means is that the overall demographic bet made by the Clinton Campaign was, in terms of sheer numbers, the correct one. There are more clinton voters in this voters in this country. But in 2016, the Democratic Coalition is so geographically concentrated, clinton still lost the Electoral College by at least 62 votes. And now its up to the Democratic Party to figure out how to change that. Up next, the fight for the future of the party. They are the natural borns enemy of the way things are. Yes, ideas are scary, and messy and fragile. But under the proper care, they become something beautiful. Jake reese, day to feel alive jake reese, day to feel alive jake reese, day to feel alive 80 try to eat healthy, yet up to 90 fall short in getting key nutrients from food alone. Lets do more. Add one a day mens gummies. Complete with key Nutrients Plus b vitamins to help convert food into fuel. One a day. It is fair to say minnesota congressman Keith Ellison, frontrunner to be the chair of the next Democratic Party, from Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders whom ellison supported for president during primary. But according to a report by the New York Times, ellison may not have the backing of the top democrat in the country. The reports that uneasy with the mr. Ellison have begun casting about for an alternative and setting off another battle in the ongoing Democratic Civil war. Joining me Michelle Goldberg and nina turner, a former ohio state senator. And nina, i would imagine the fact that you spent a lot of time in the trail for Bernie Sanders and know Keith Ellison. Youre behind his candidacy. My question is how you reacted to all these anonymous quotes from the obama circle basically saying he is not the man for the job. Im surprised, chris, that theyre taking that kind of interest. Maybe i shouldnt be surprised, because democrats have been losing ground in this country since 2010 and 2014 we got handed both times. So i wished that the people who are listening to such concern about the possible leadership of congressman Keith Ellison would have had that same concern as democrats has started to erode our connection the people have been eroding, especially on the state level of government and governors mansions. Michelle, the point i just made about the map, its such a crazy one to think about. The obama team put together this incredible thing that no democrat had done since fdr, which is two consecutive elections. Since fdr. Thats an unbelievable monumental and now weve had three consecutive elections with the majority of the country. Thats right. Its an unbelievable political achievement. And at the same time, the Democratic Party at state level, state legislature, state houses. And we saw in the Electoral College in this case has completely desiccated. This is because the geographic sorting of the country is coupled with systems at both a state level and obviously at the National Level that completely theyre completely prejudiced against people who live in urban areas. There is overrepresentation of rural interests at a every single level of our government. And its now kind of metastasized into a system in which a rural minority is going to essentially rule the urban majority that has no say in their national government. But there is also the fact, nina, that that is thats true there is a structural problem that is intersected with the combination of the senate and the Electoral College. But there is also the fact that you got to build Democratic Party power. The job for this next chairman is build Democratic Power at the local level, state house by state house, legislative district by legislative district. Youve seen it up close in ohio. It strikes me, when you look at michigan, wisconsin, and ohio, those three states, those are three states that elected republican governors in the Great Tea Party backlash whose governors hammered organized labor, who hammered the interests of the left, who did everything they could do disempower. And look what that ended up producing in this election. Thats right. And democrats have to take some responsibility for this there is an african proverb that one should never build their shield on the battlefield. It was shield building time for the democrats after 2010. But no party wants to lose, but of all the times you lose is right before the redrawing of lines. I was in the ohio senate when we were redrawing those lines. And democrats being decimated. When it comes to the systemic ways in which the power of politics work we have been losing elections. And so we have to reconnect with the people so that we are elected to office so that we are in the positions to make the difference. So what is the answer here, nina . And ill come to you in a second, michelle. In some ways this is shaping up as an interesting proxy battle in which sanders loses the primary but wins the battle for the party. Yes. In partly because i think people look around and think well, the clintons arent going to run the Democratic Party. Obama is leaving. Bernie sanders had at least this grassroots vision. But what is that message . That what does that program mattly mean . First it starts with remember the republicans did an autopsy in 2012 that they didnt really follow. No. But im hoping the Democratic Party will do an autopsy in 2016 to find out what went wrong, how it went wrong, and how we can recapture, have robust conversations is have the coming to jesus meeting and its making sure we never lose sight of the grassroots. When people outcry, especially about the income inequality in this country that disproportionately hurts people of color, but dont forget about our poor White Sisters and brothers too. When they say theyre hurting, we got to say we get it and not that theyre nuts. We got to listen more. That is the beginning of the change is to listen to the people. Its interesting that she mentions the autopsy. What do you want the say . Although its a proxy war, i actually think that Keith Ellison is perfectly positioned to bridge at least part of that gap. I agree. Because on the one hand, you have Bernie Sanders out there saying the democrats need to ditch identity politics. He didnt quite say that. He didnt say it that way. He didnt mean it that way. There is a fear among some people that in this move, that kind of a curly classbased politics will throw women and people of color under the bus in this attempt to win back the culturally conservative white working class. And Keith Ellison on the one hand has the Standards Movement behind him. But he also is never going to work with donald trump. Right. He is as invested in the resistance as anybody in this country. I think that he will never, ever forget that donald trump is an existential threat to his future in this country. So he is not going to be a deal maker. He is someone who is, again, he is going i think would approach this job as leader of the resistance. Its interesting that he uses sort of the middle of diagrams which is part of why that times story was pass night. Oh, were seeing all these different parts of the Democratic Coalition come together behind congressman ellison. And now maybe a little bit of a wrench in the works. Michelle goldberg and nina turner, thank you very much. All right that is all in for this evening. I hope all you have a wonderful thanksgiving. And everyone, lets try to be good to each other, okay . Rachel maddow show starts right now. Good evening. Because i know you are an earnest and noncynical man, it gets me a little teary. You make me want to be good to other people, chris. Lets do that, okay, everyone . I believe you. Happy thanksgiving. Good to see you. And thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. I hope you get some time off for thanksgiving. And if you do not get any time off for thanksgiving, i am sorry about that. And i hope you get at least time and a half for your troubles. I feel like everybody i talked to this week, this week, week and a half, oh, youre getting any time off for thanksgiving felt like seven out of ten times people were sang