replacement in sight. >> repeal and replace is going great. and racial bias, excessive force and reckless shootings. today's doj report on the chicago police department when "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes. there is just one week to go until donald trump becomes the president of the united states. he has not even taken office yet and already trump is historically unpopular. his transition, arguably clouded by more serious scandals and controversy than all eight years of the obama administration combined. as questions mount about the circumstances of trump's election and his alleged ties to a foreign adversary. democrats appear to be reaching a breaking point. in an interview with chuck todd, georgia congressman, civil rights icon john lewis became the first to declare openly what i believe many lawmakers have until now only suggested. >> i don't see this
president-elect as a legitimate president. >> you do not consider him a legitimate president? why is that? >> i think the russians participated in helping this man get elected and they helped destroy the candidacy of hillary clinton. i don't plan to attend the inauguration. it will be the first one that i missince i've be miss since i've been in the congress. you cannot be at home with something that you feel that is wrong. >> that's going to send a big message to a lot of people in this country that you don't believe he's a legitimate president. >> i think there was a conspiracy on the part of the russians and others to help him get elected. that's not right. that's not fair. that's not an open democratic
process. >> those are remarkable words given the moral authority and democratic witness that john lewis bore throughout his life. late today, the senate intelligence committee, of course, chaired by a republican, announced a bipartisan inquiry into the intelligence community's unanimous conclusion about russian's interference in the election including the criminal political hacking and the committee plans to interview senior officials of both the outgoing and incoming administrations, including the issuance of subpoenas if necessary to compel testimony. that's one of the shadows hanging over trump's transition to the presidency. until this week he rejected the findings of america's intelligence professionals choosing to pick an ugly fight with people he'll have to rely on as president. as early as this morning, the president-elect was still attacking the intelligence community while seeming to take russia at its word. he tweeted "totally made up facts by sleaze bag political operatives, both democrats and republicans, fake news. russia says nothing exists, probably released by the intelligence, even knowing there is no proof and never will be.
my people will have a full report on hacking within 90 days. trump was referring to the unverified dossier summarized in classified briefings to both the president and the president-elect. the dossier includes allegations the russian government possesses compromising material about trump and that trump team and the russian government exchange information during the presidential campaign. there is no evidence the dossier was leaked by the intelligence community. it was floating around a number of places prior to being published. trump categorically denies the allegations contained in the dossier but director of national intelligence james clapper says the intelligence community hasn't made any judgment that the information in that document is reliable. then there's the controversy surrounding fbi director james comey and his decision to publicly disclose information about the bureau's probe of hillary clinton's e-mail server including the now infamous letter to congress 11 days before the election. there is mounting evidence the
letter did significant damage to clinton's chances and the fbi's conduct is the subject of an investigation by the u.s. inspector general that comes amid multiple reports that at the same time the fbi was investigating clinton it was also investigating the trump campaign for ties to russia. those reports haven't been independently confirmed by nbc news. at a senate hearing this week, comey was asked if the fbi was examining potential ties between trump's team and the russian government. >> has the fbi investigated these reported relationships and, if so what are the agency's findings? >> thank you, senator. i would never comment on investigations, whether we have one or not, in an open forum like this. >> did you answer senator widen's question that there is an investigation under way as to connections between either of the political campaigns and the russians? >> i didn't say one way or another. especially in a public forum. we never confirm or deny a pending investigation.
>> democrats' frustration with fbi director comey finally boiled over this morning after a classified house briefing on russia's alleged hacking. congressman tim wolz said "i was non-judgmental until the last 15 minutes. some of these things that are revealed, my confidence has been shook." congressman markcatanho, "i'm very angry." congressman ted lew tweeted "for members of congress who attended a classified intel briefing today, i reiterate my call that you demand donald trump tell the truth." reporters asked congresswoman maxine waters about what happened? >> reporter: congresswoman, can you tell us anything about the discussion? >> no, it's classified and we can't tell you anything. all i can tell you is the fbi director has no credibility. >> well, then. joining me now congressman tim walz, democrat from minnesota. do you share your colleague's
assessment that the fbi director has no credibility? >> well, i have deep concerns, chris. i went in there listening and trying to find out. this is a serious attack on our democracy. that's at the heart of the story. we have a foreign power who attempted to undermine our most sacred institution of an election and i wanted to find out what happewas happening dur that time. i have a lot of questions that needed to be answered and the handling first and foremost of what the russians did, how it influenced our election, we can find that out. that's critical. it doesn't matter if you're a donald trump supporter or not, you want to know that, what have they done? the bigger question is were they handled -- are they handling these investigations equally. are they doing according to their operating proceed your on when they talk about it and don't? my frustration came nothing classified about it when it became apparent they were not handled the same way and that's incredibly frustrating because not just because of the election
and the election results, it undermines the american people's faith in the non-partisan nature of our critical intelligence and that's what came out in there. >> i want to be clear on this and obviously i'm respectful of the fact you're dealing with a classified briefing and would not want to talk about things but the source of the frustration is what you believe is a double standard or a poorly applied standard with respect to different campaigns and how possible investigations are discussed? >> yes. and i think that's a possibility until today that wasn't apparent to me. now it's gng to -- >> so you learned that today. yofelt like that was confirmed to you today that your fears about a double standard or a poorly applied one were confirmed? >> if they weren't confirmed i have serious doubts, my confidence was shook. i've been asking for a more in-depth investigation into this as my ranking members and elijah cummings has. we need to know that. but, yesterday, coming out of
there i don't think what should have been simple answers were not answered in a simple manner. the danger of this, chris, is again of undermining the public's credibility in this. i know those who say well, you're just upset with the election. in my district, chris, hillary clinton got 38%. she was not going to win that in there whether the russians hacked it or not, but that's not the point. the point is that they are no doubt they were involved. there's no doubt we have more to learn on that. but how we as members of congress and how the american public found out about that versus the e-mail situation does not seem to me to be consistent and i think that's real trouble and that's not in a defense of hillary clinton's use of e-mail which is i said all along needed to be looked at. >> so let me ask you this. given everything you've told me i wonder how you -- whether you share the assessment of your colleague john lewis who said today on the record chuck todd is that he did not feel this president is legitimate. do you agree? do you think this president is
not legitimate? >> no, i don't agree at this time and john lewis is an icon, i respect him greatly. he is shook on this, too. i would say i need to see more. i respect that next friday when we have an inauguration we will have -- president trump will be my president and as i said yesterday when he makes a good decision like his v.a. appointment of dr. shulkin i'll praise him on that. when he's not i'll work on trying to find common ground but at stake here is there's more to be learned and we can't be stonewalled on this and my fear is that the person who tells me with that information and i make my judgments on, i have a deep concern about now and that's why that was so damaging to me. since i've been up here over the last decade, this was the most troubling to me in terms of what i had been led and the expectations and how that turned out and that's why we need more information. >> congressman tim walz, thank you. >> thanks, chris. i'm joined by congresswoman barbara lee, democrat from
california. my understanding is like john lewis you are not going to the inauguration. i wonder, do you agree with congressman lewis? do you view this president as "not legitimate"? >> chris, let me first of all say i believe in the peaceful transfer of power and the office of the presidency. but when you look at the flawed process and russian interference in our election and when you look at what has taken place in terms of our democratic ideals, our processes, i have to applaud congressman john lewis because once john lewis says they are flawed or illegitimate, the elections were illegitimate or this is an illegitimate president, people have to pause and think about this because congress lewis is a moral leader, a civil and human rights icon and he did not make that decision lightly. i think the facts need to be laid out. we have a bipartisan commission, legislation led to really set up a commission to investigate this so when you look at what has
taken place i have to say john lewis is right on target in terms of how this president-elect was elected and the interference and what took place as a result of these elections. even the fbi in terms of their bias and how they conducted these investigations, what was made public, what was not made public. people can decide for themselves but there are so many problems with what took place until once again congressman john lewis needs to be applauded. >> were you in that briefing today, congresswoman? >> yes, i was. >> did you share the -- it was sort of a fascinating scene afterwards. democrat after democrat coming out saying in very strong words how frustrated angered, how many questions they have. was that your feeling coming out of that as well? >> chris, i was angry. i wasn't frustrated because the facts leading up to today were very clear to me but when you'd -- are in a classified briefing of course we can't
disclose what we learned but my reaction was one of anger, i was very -- i would say upset with the fact that the american people need to have the facts made public. we need some transparency and we need this investigation so the public will know exactly what took place. >> so you feel there are important -- there are important things for the public to know that they can not or do not know at this moment? >> i think it's important for an investigation to be conducted that is public and, of course, there are going to be some issues that will be classified that cannot be disclosed but i think for the most part we need the bipartisan commission which the house is -- i think all democrats are on the legislation. we need that so the public will know exactly what took place and make their own decisions about the outcome of this election. >> all right, congresswoman barbara lee, thanks for joining me, appreciate it. up next, the trump transition is now admitting to
nbc news that michael flynn spoke to russia's ambassador on the day the obama administration sanctioned russia for interfering in our election. the latest that have two-minute break. it's beautiful. was it a hard place to get to? (laughs) it wasn't too bad. with the chase mobile app, jimmy chin can master depositing his hard earned checks in a snap. easy to use chase technology for whatever you're trying to master. when you hit 300,000 miles. or here, when you walked away without a scratch. maybe it was the day your baby came home. or maybe the day you realized your baby was not a baby anymore. every subaru is built to earn your trust. because we know what you're trusting us with. subaru. kelley blue book's most trusted brand.
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amid mounting questions about potential leaks between donald trump, his inner circle and the russian government came this post from david ignatius from the "washington post" which seemed to be a remarkable revelation. according to a senior u.s. official, trump's pick for national security advisor, michael flynn, phoned the russian ambassador several times december 29, that would be the same day the obama administration announced the expulsion of 35 russian officials as well as other measures in retaliation for the hacking during the election. that report was followed up today by another from the associated press again citing contact on that day, the 29th, again sourced to a single senior official who may or may not have been the same person, we don't know. on a routine call with reporters this morning, transition spokesperson sean spicer offered a simple explanation.
>> christmas day general flynn reached out to the ambassador and sent him a text and it said, you know, "i want to wish you and -- merry christmas and a happy new year." the ambassador texted him back wishing him a merry christmas as well and then spently subseque the 28th of december texted him and said "i'd like to give you a call, may i?" he took the call on the 29th and the call centered around the logistics of setting up a call with the president of russia and the elect after he was sworn in. >> this all seems completely innocent, above board. but there was something a bit peculiar i noticed about spicer's account. you note he cited two dates when flynn supposedly had contact, december 25 christmas day and december 28 but the white house announced new sanctions in response to russia's election sbe feer
interference, december 29. that's the day that was alleged in the column. did flynn talk that day or not? this morning team trump told the "post's" david ignatius the only happened on the 25th and 28th the latter to off condolences for a plane crash. but then in afternoon nbc news producer vaughan hilliard caught up with spicer and he admitted there was a phone call on the 29th. >> reporter: on the 29th, the same day the u.s. expelled russian democrats and then a day later vladimir putin said he wouldn't push out american diplomats in russia. did general flynn have any conversations to indicate to the russian ambassador that the u.s. trump administration would either ease or roll back sanctions? >> the only conversation general flynn had was, one, to wish him merry christmas, two, to express his sympathies for the loss of life during the plane crash and to commit to establishing a call after the inauguration between
the two leaders. >> obviously that choir plane crash was tragic and we know the trump team loves to say merry christmas but how many times can you call and text the same russian ambassador? joining me now msnbc terrorism analyst malcolm nantz and matt taibbi author of the book "insane clown president." let me start with you matt and then go to you, malcolm. here's an example of the kind of thing we're dealing with. the facts are unclear and in dispute, they seem to move back and forth. there is at one level a totally innocent explanation. there's some business that has to happen between an incoming transition and the russian ambassador but then there's some weird documents around it. and you wrote this piece yesterday saying some line about how we going to get something more important than what we're flying through right now? >> there are two completely different narratives. there's one where basically the russians let's just say -- i mean the people that i talked to have a high degree of confidence they were involved with the
hacking of the dnc e-mails and passing it on to wikileaks as well but there's a version where they do that and trump is basically the idiotic moronic beneficiary and wasn't involved in a conspiracy with the russians. we don't have any hard evidence that there's more than that. >> the thing of which there's the most evidence is the first order thing that they hacked it for whatever reason to sow discontent because they like trump, they hated hillary clinton. >> they want to sow division in the united states which all great power countries do. we do it. this would be an extraordinary episode but certainly there's no evidence that i've seen that there's this other element where it's a manchurian candidate, there's a plot and that would be an order of magnitude much larger. >> and malcolm, i believe you are a -- you worked obviously in the intelligence community for years, you wrote a book about russia's involvement in this election and you are a believer
large largely but what is the evidence there is aside we have this dossier but we can't verify any of it? >> i like to say this because matt's a great journalist and i love his work but matt is a journalist, i'm an intelligence officer. i look at things differently. there is no such thing as coincidence in my world. coincidence takes a lot of planning. everything that happened with regards to that hack took place in an organized bubble that indicated there was a very large information warfare management cell being run by russian intelligence. all of the leaks came out precisely to support everything donald trump said within 24 to 48 hours he talks about pennsylvania, every pennsylvania dossier comes out. he talks about florida, every florida dossier comes out. when that wasn't flowing fast enough, d.c. leaks came out. all of this was on the basis of the systematic release of
intelligence and that's what intelligence agencies do. >> here's the issue to me, malcolm. i hear you and i've talked to intelligence people who keep saying the same things which that you have not been trained, you are not seeing the puzzle pieces fit together the way we have and i respect that. but the standard -- part of the problem we're dealing with is standards of different. so standard of public domain to say to someone, you know, matt, that this person is a foreign agent essentially or colluding, that is a very heavy thing to sate about a person, particularly the incoming president of the united states. what should the journalistic standards be? >> right now all we can say is there are people who believe that. that's what we can report is that there are people in the intelligence community who have -- apparently have indications that lead them to believe that but we haven't seen anything that allows us to say unequivocally that x and y happened last year. all we can say is there are analyses that show that they were probably behind the hack. >> so the question, malcolm, to you becomes can you imagine a
world in which an unclassified version of evidence could be produced through a bipartisan investigation of some kind that could be entered into the public record that could make some determination that meets a standards for amateurs? for citizens? for democratic citizens in a nation who want to know what the heck is going on? >> sure. so long as we're not talking about the original hacking of the dnc. that evidence is unkwif kabl, on the internet, a company called crowdstrike did the analysis and saw the data being stolen. the question is about these links possibly with the trump team, the trump administration, that data i think you're probably never going to see the cia's report which was parallel written, published on the same day i published and came out with the same conclusions. you're not going to see that. after next week you'll never see that. but our allied nations --
>> this is the super bowl of intelligence crises. >> part of the problem is that it seems to me if this sort of attrition through leak -- the you think the leaks we are getting are coming from the intelligence community? >> no, i don't think a lot of them are coming from the intelligence community. especially with regards to that dossier that dossier had been out there for months. i spoke to david corn. but you have to understand, my book came out four months ago and it was unclassified. it didn't have anything to do with it. so the media takes longer to catch up because you have the two rule verification and things like that and information the just leaking out now about what we can see sort of nefarious, may have parameters leading towards sinister and questionable enough to demand investigation to determine if any of these people have links to moscow. >> the only thing i feel definitive about is there has to be an official commission in which things are systematically declassified, investigated and
presented in some fashion we don't make democratic determinations and immediate determinations based on leaks and counterleaks. malcolm nantz and matt taibbi, thank you. coming up, as the ethical concerns pile up around trump and his cabinet nominees, how are the republicans responding? that story coming up. and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, or adempas® for pulmonary hypertension, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have a sudden decrease or loss of hearing or vision, or an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis.
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later in the term. it turns out it was just getting started. despite warnings from ethics watchdogs, despite past practice, republicans scheduled senate hearings for donald trump's cabinet picks even though several were yet to complete the background checks and ethics clearances that are customarily required. then there's trump's pick to head the department of health and human services, representative tom price who the "wall street journal" reports traded more than $300,000 in shares of health-related companies over the past four years while sponsoring and advocating legislation that could potentially affect those company stocks. today came reports that price got a sweetheart deal from a foreign biotech firm that could earn him a million dollars. trump, meanwhile, held a press conference on wednesday where he defied calls by bipartisan ethics watchdogs to divest or place his assets in a blind trust saying instead he would hand his business over to his sons, a relatively meaningless step that he nonetheless presented as a benevolent gesture. >> i could actually run my business. i could actually run my business and run government at the same
time. i don't like the way that looks but i would be able to do that if i wanted to. >> trump's stance did not it is well with the director of the office of government ethics, walter shaub, and now republicans are responding to shaub's objections with a no so vailed threat, not against the president-elect, rather against the ethics watchdog trying to ensure he doesn't violate the constitution. jason chaffetz and the gop's ethical bullying on ethics next. . [dad] alright, buddy, don't forget anything! [kid] i won't, dad... [captain rod] happy tuesday morning! captain rod here. it's pretty hairy out on the interstate.traffic is literally crawling, but there is some movement on the eastside overpass. getting word of another collision. [burke] it happened. december 14th, 2015. and we covered it. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ has been a struggle.
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a. >> i wish circumstances were different and i didn't feel the need to make public remarks today. you don't hear about ethics when things are going well. you've been hearing a lot about ethics lately. >> walter shaub, director of u.s. government ethics delivered a speech decrying the steps donald trump has taken -- or not taken, he got a letter from gop representative jason chaffetz chair of the house oversight and government reform chairman who earlier this week vowed to continue his investigation into hillary clinton's e-mails. now chaffetz's letter was not a show of support to a fellow ethics watchdog, it was instead a threat. chaffetz accusing shaub of blurring the line between public relations and official ethics guidance hinting he may investigate shaub for speaking out about trump's conflict of interest. chaffetz, who demanded shaub appear for a closed-door interview cited a tweet storm from november in which shaub told trump oge is delighted you've decided to divest your
businesses, right decision. trump has done nothing of the sort but he's apparently done enough for chaffetz. >> it seems to me donald trump is bending over backwards to do everything he can but he has to abide by the law and he's exempt from most of these conflicts of interest so i thought it was very premature of the office of government ethics to be in the spin room saying hey, i hate this. >> democrats including chuck schumer responded to chaffetz' letter with outright. "mr. chaffetz's attempt to bully mr. shaub out of doing his job are absolutely despicable." joining me now, senator jeff merckly from oregon, do you share chuck schumer's asse assessment? >> this is a crazy situation. first the house tries to get rid of the office on day one then they attack the independent office of government ethics charged with making sure the conflicts of interests are eliminated for the president and people who are nominated for cabinet posts. boy the president himself held a
press conference to say how much he was doing and it turned out his plan was as phony as his photo problems. he had these folders piled up saying "these are the contracts i'm going to divest" but they wouldn't let the reporters look at them because they had blank paper in them and the plan was to put his sons in control of the business. does not eliminate the conflicts of interest. >> here's my question at a brass tacks level. the office of government ethics is an independent body. a fixed i believe five year term, the head of that walter sha shaub. what does the senate or congress do when day one donald trump fires him? >> he can't fire him on day one because of it being a five-year term but i must say it will be very very disturbing for a president to put someone in that office who isn't a professional committed to enforcing ethics laws and will make -- certainly make a lot of noise about it and consider where whether there's some kind of legislation we can pass that puts boundaries in
place to back it up. >> what do you make of -- congressman chaffetz has carved out a role for himself in the house, the oversight committee. the idea behind the oversight commit see the a deep constitutional idea, the tension between article one and article two branches of the united states government that congress over sees the executive. do you feel that he is -- does he sound faith to feel that role as he talks about what's going on now? >> the best way to get the house republicans to attack something is put the label "ethics" on it. so it's not really -- it's oversight to try to destroyer sight. it's really unfortunate that they're not taking ethics seriously and it's happening on the senate side where they're trying to ram through nominees without getting the standard ethics report that mitch mcconnell himself demanded for president obama's nominees in 2009. >> are you confident all of those ethics clearances will happen before -- i know some of the hearings have been postponed. it did seem that was a mini battle the democrats in some
senses won in so far as a bunch of those hearings have been postponed? >> it seems like we've made some progress but i wouldn't declare victory yet because the challenge, for example, with devod devos is a vast challenge and she hasn't even submitted the paperwork yet. is the leadership going to say well she hasn't submitted the paperwork and we don't have the divestment plan but still we want her in the job and try to push it through? they may well do so and we'll try to stop it. >> devos, of course, nominated for secretary of education who is a billionaire, comes from a fantastically wealthy family, huge amounts of holdings and would have to go through a process -- she would have to go through a process that's insisted upon by law in a way donald trump wouldn't which is that she won't have any option, right, to pass over the family business to her kids or something, she has to divest and put in the a blind trust? >> this is -- that is the
standard absolutely and by the way this should be the standard for the president and it's -- when we are pushing him to divest, we're doing him a big favor because when you own a lot of property it's very easy to be in violation of the constitution's emolument clause because all someone has to do is give you a sweetheart deal and there's thousands of deals his corporation is doing and you're in violation. >> senator jeff merkley, thank you for your time. >> you're welcome. still ahead, growing questions about republican plans to gut obamacare as repealed a vances in the house. plus, a quick check in on rudy giuliani is tonight's thing 1 thing 2 and that starts right after this break.
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wearing the hats, speaking super super emphatically at the republican national convention, even vociferously defending trump after release of that infamous "access hollywood" tape in which trump boasted of sexual assault. giuliani and trump were bosom buddies from way back and trump's surprise win, giuliani was well positioned. the only question was which top cabinet post was he going to get? >> the choice for secretary of state in a trump administration is down to rudy giuliani and john bolton. >> john would be a very good choice. >> is there anybody better? >> maybe me, i don't know. [ laughter ] >> he was reported to be a top candidate for secretary of state until he got passed over claiming he took his own name out of contention, then attorney general. there's probably that knows the justice department better than me, giuliani said at the time. but he didn't get that job, either. the former mayor receded back into whatever he was doing before he jumped on the trump bandwagon but now rudy giuliani has been given a job -- kind of -- in the trump administration. what's he going to do?
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so rudy giuliani, one of the earliest, biggest most stalwart supporters of candidate trump who seemed to be shoveled aside by president-elect trump has been now finally given an assignment. if you missed the big announcement at trump tower yesterday we'll play it for you now. >> basically i'll read you a little of the press release. "president-elect trump is very pleased to announce former mayor rudy giuliani will be sharing his expertise and insight as a trusted friend coordinating private sector cyber security problems and emerging solutions developing in the private sector." >> so some cyber stuff. a role so diminished as the "new york times" described it, giuliani will from time to time hold meets with mr. trump. giuliani has his own consulting firm so this appears to be a
nice had the president of the united states want to impress executives looking for a firm. it's an upgrade from the current situation. if any executives went looking for his firm today, this is what they find. his web sites have down all day after a report from gizmo doe that the security site is "insecure as hell" was using outdated free software and failed to follow even the most basic of security precautions that would be obvious to the most casual student of cyber security. companies in the country. after expanding our fiber network coast to coast. these are the places we call home. we are centurylink. we believe in the power of the digital world. the power to connect. and that's what drives us everyday. still trying to find how ara good site.going?
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friend when officers drove up, shined a light on him and ordered him to freeze because he had been fidgeting with his waistband. the man ran. the officers fired 45 rounds, including 28 rifle rounds, several rounds struck the man, killing him. officers found no gun on the man, however officers reported recovering a handgun nearly one block away. the gun recovered in the vicinity was determined to be fully loaded an inoperable and forensic testing determined there was no gunshot residue on the man's hands. chicago's independent police review authority, or ipra, which we have talked about on the show before, found the actions of the officers justified. this was not uncommon according to the report. in many of these cases, ipra generally accepted the officers' versions of events which were later undercut by video evidence. another one, in one case officers justified using force by claiming a woman attacked them but in the video officers can be seen aggressively grabbing the woman, throwing her to the ground and surrounding her. after she's handcuffed, one officer tells another to "tase
her ten effing times." officers call her an animal, threaten to kill her and her family and scream "i'll put you in a u.p.s. box and send you back toer the "f" you came from." officers can then be seen discovering a recording device and discussing whether they can take it. those officers didn't face any discipline until after the woman came forward with the surveillance video. justice department investigation also found routinely abusive behavior within the cpd, especially towards black and latino residents of chicago's most challenged neighborhoods. one officer said he referred co-workers and supervisors refer to black individuals as monkeys, animals, savages and pieces of excrement. it's a 13-month investigation by the u.s. department of justice, 160 pages long in which the federal government corroborates what people and reporters, frankly, in the most marginalized neighborhoods of chicago have been saying for years. and now, because of that report, the city of chicago has promised to reform the police department.
we'll see how that goes. but all this comes because this justice department under this president has aggressively pushed for reform and investigated city departments. the man donald trump wants to put in charge of the justice department has a very different take. jeff sessions has criticized government lawsuits that force police reforms. so the question before us now is whether the next report into the next department like chicago ever even happen? it's just a date. i can stay.
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working around the clock to repeal the affordable care act as soon as possible. he led a successful vote, mostly on party lines, on the first step toward repealing the health care law through the budget process. he defended republican plans for repealing the aca to a man whose life was saved by the law. >> i was a republican and i worked for the reagan and bush campaigns. at 49 i was given six weeks to live with a very curable type of cancer. thanks to the affordable care act, i'm standing here today alive. why would you repeal the affordable care act without a replacement? >> i would encourage you to go to our web site and take a look at our plan. >> ryan went on to talk about a number of policy ideas from high-risk pools to greater reliance on health savings accounts but if you took him up to go to the house speaker web site and looked at their plan, you'd find four bullet points promising to reduce cost, shore up medicare with a link to a pdf which restates the same abstract and vague promises.
after seven years of obamacare, more than 60 attempts to repeal it, thousands of campaign run against it across the country, that is the cutting edge of the republican alternative right now -- four bullet points. so what are the millions of people who've gained coverage thanks to the affordable care act supposed to do while they watch this unfold? joining me now, former director of communications of outreach for hillary clinton jess macintosh and the author of "overcoming obamacare, three approaches to reversing the government takeover of health care." phil, i want to start with you. obviously there are plans out there. lamar alexander talked about a plan, tom price who has been nominated for hhs but it's somewhat striking to me that all this time they didn't -- they knew this was coming. the fact there's not a plan saying, no, this is what we're going to do, not only that it was absent from the campaign. if you go back to '08, you can say obamacare you don't like it, you don't like the principles, but it was intensely litigated. you had a good sense of what the
contours were going to be. i have no idea. >> the problem always has been not that there aren't any republican plans, there have been many, paul ryan himself when he wasn't in leadership released one, tom price had one, there's a number of different plans but republicans have never been able to agree on a single one and now that's coming back to haunt them. >> there's also the problem, it strikes me, jess, that not only do they not agree in congress, donald trump has made a lot of promises, he's talked about out-of-pocket costs. he wrote a book calling for single payer. do you think they can square the promises they've made? >> i don't think they'll be able to do that. i think the republicans in the house and senate have made repealing obamacare a huge part of their agenda for years now. donald trump is new to this game. he doesn't the issue. he clearly doesn't understand
the koun tours and what will be the controversial pieces of it and he seems to have no interest in working with the congressional republicans that will have to do the heavy lifting here. i hope they remember we started president obama's presidency by picking up this health care fight. it was not easy. the president spent enormous political capital getting this done because he believed not just in a set of principles but in how to do it and he worked with senate democrats to get it done. >> part of the reason it wasn't easy, easy, philip, is people don't like the status quo bias. people didn't like it then, they don't like it now, but i think a lot of people do like it that have gotten care. but change is scary. you've written about the fact republicans are not being particularly honest about what their principles are which is yes some people are going to lose their coverage. >> absolutely. one argument i've made is that republicans should avoid the same mistake as president obama.
when he was selling the health care law as you said one of the problems was this status quo bias. people were worried about how it would disrupt their health insurance so he over and over again repeated the infamous talking point about if you like your plan you can keep it and you're not going to lose your das even though you know that -- and any intellectually honest liberal health care expert at the time would say look, if you're making major changes to the health care system it will disrupt some people's care. some people will lose coverage and he could have made the argument but ultimately the overall system will be better but he made these big promises and when the obvious happened and people lost their coverage and doctor networks got narrowed on all these changes disrupted a lot of people it was a huge problem for him and that's one of the big reasons why republicans have been able to capitalize and i'd argue now
control the congress and perhaps the presidency as a result of obamacare. and these broken promises. now republicans are also, i think, boxing themselves in the corner by making a lot of contradictory promises that won't actually bear out and i think that they should just be more honest and defend, which i think is a defensible position, repealing obamacare and replacing it with a market-based system. >> that gentleman that spoke to paul ryan last night, it strikes me -- he's a particular cancer and he was a former republican whatever but there's millions of people that are going to kind of discover they're in the cross hairs who may not have been activated for this fight before the election but may get activated afterwards. >> for sure. we're starting with only 18% wanting to repeal obamacare. you don't get to 18% with republican unity by any stretch of the imagination. there are a number of people, we've seen it all over the internet as they've picked up this fight, people saying well,
i'm on the aca, repeal obamacare, that's terrible, many i health care will be fine. they don't realize the aca and obamacare and whether that's the media's fault, the president's fault, whoever's fault, these people will know real fast that the obamacare is the aca and that's how they get their coverage. so if we're starting at a number this low, republicans are not offering people anything. they are simply saying repeal as if there is a mandate to repeal, as if people see repeal as something being done for them. >> there's a repeal to change. >> as opposed to being done to them. obama made it through this because he was offering more health care to people. i don't know what trump or the congressional republicans are going to be offering. >> very good point. philip klein, jess mcintosh, thank you for your time. before we go, one last special segment. both my kids are here and we have a house rule, they get to request any animal video they want when they're here. for my daughter, there's the black panther.

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