Coronavirus on thanksgiving when all in starts right now. Good evening from new york. Im chris hayes. The states that comprise this Glorious Union of ours are beginning to certify their Election Results. Delaware was the first, certifying last week that joe biden won their three electoral votes. Yesterday vermont certified bid bidens win for another three votes. South dakota and oklahoma certified wins for President Trump totaling 10 electoral votes. Today trumps wins in wyoming and South Carolina were also certified adding another 12 electoral votes in the president s column. You will notice president s arent clieing voter fraud in any of these states. Theyre only focused on spreading that toxic lie in states they think will help them unseat the democratically elected government. But as we watched the Election Results being certified, this process will go on through december. And as we think about what happened in this election, its an opportunity for all of us to take a step back and marvel at the fact that this is an enormous, complicated country that quite literally contains multitudes. 72 Million People voted for donald trump, and 77 million and counting that will go up voted for joe biden in the tallying completed so far. And all of us, trump voters and biden voters, we share this country together with each other. What it means to be american is to share this place, this land that spans from california to wyoming to delaware with all kinds of political persuasions, and what it means to love your country. The best form of patriotism is that you love your country not because its better than other countries. You love it the same way you love your family, because its yours. And you fight for it because its yours. And this country, our country we all share together, is in unbelievable distress right now. What do all of those states that have already certified their Election Results, with the exception of vermont, have in common . Theyre all part of this great nation where coronavirus is running rampant. In delaware, south dakota, oklahoma, wyoming, and South Carolina, new cases are higher, and they are staying high. In delaware, new cases are up more than 80 over the last two weeks. And in wyoming coronavirus cases are up over 100 . Look at that curve there. Black americans and white americans and latino americans, indigenous americans, liberal americans, conservative americans, rural americans, urban americans are all being thrashed by this virus. What would a patriotic government that cared about its own people be doing right now . Well, you think for a second about what you would be doing for a loved one in your family, if someone you loveds, cared for were in a hospital, receiving very obviously substandard care, neglected, left to essentially care for themselves as they were eaten away by a plague. You would not tolerate it, and you sure as hell wouldnt say, well, if you take a step back, yes, this hospital performs in the lowest tenth percentile in the state, but there are people who have it worse. And running a hospital is hard. What can do you . Who can blamed them . If my loved one diezs, my loved one dies. Its a tough problem to figure out. No, thats not how it works. You fight for the people you love, and you fight for the country you love, and we fight for american lives. This is where we are right now. These are the ten countries in the world with the highest deaths per Million People. Now, youll notice some very tiny little countries with very smalldy nominators like san marino and andorra are in there. But even with them, were the tenth worst country in the world, right after bolivia. There are more than 150 countries doing better than us. This is what making America Great again looks like in reality. Tenth worst in the world. And there are conservatives and republicans running around like, well, you know, spains worst. Well, you know what . We dont live in spain, do we . We live in the United States of america. We live in our country, our home. We should be demanding the best of our country and our leadership. But instead this corrupt, defeated government has surrendered. This is what the map from covid exit strategy looks like right now. Every state in the country except vermont and maine seeing uncontrolled spread of the virus. This graph shows new reported cases by day nationwide. New cases are so high that they dwarf the previous two spikes we saw this summer. The country is on fire, and its not an accident. This is the Trump Administrations current policy, what you are seeing. And if you dont believe me, take a look at this republican rally today in georgia. Headlined not by donald trump. Forget about donald trump. Just the normal republicans, headlined by senators marco rubio and Kelly Loeffler to drum up support for the Runoff Senate elections. Crowds of people indoors, many not wearing masks, packed into that room at the cobb county republican headquarters. Republicans have their eyes on the prize, and thats not defeating the virus, and thats not saving your loved ones from dying in the plague but trying to secure a senate majority. We also got more news today of more people obviously testing positive for coronavirus in the latest white house outbreak. People who were in that big Election Night party, again, inside around each other without masks. This is not rocket science. We now hoe this goes. Brian jack, healey bum gardner, they were both there at that Election Night party. I wish both of them the best the way that i do every american who is being sickened by this thing. If we had a government that cared for its people, it would be fighting for us right now. It would be at the very least the very least. This doesnt take a bill of congress or an executive action. The least. The literal least they could do would be sending out messages every day to the 72 Million People who voted for donald trump, the tens of millions of people who love the man and trust him, telling those people howthy can keep themselves and their family safe and the ref of us safe. Telling them what to do this thanksgiving. But theyre not doing that. They cannot be bothered. The president s sulking and watching golf and cable news. And the rest of the Republican Party, the whole party, complicit in all this, focused on the georgia runoff and maybe overturning the results of a democratic election to stay in power against the peoples will. But if they love their country, they should start acting like it. Dr. Michael osterholm is one of the people we should all be listening to right now. Hes the director of the center for Infectious Disease research and policy at the university of minnesota and a member of president elect joe bidens transition covid19 advisory board. I guess well start with a checkin on where we are although you just run out offagektives to say horrible. One of the things that jumped out at me in the covid tracking numbers is the hospitalizations. Cases are somewhat depend end on testing. Hospitalizations are up 30 in a week. Were smashing through the alltime record which had been at 60,000. Were at 65,000. What does that mean in real terms for the system . Well, i think the challenge we have before us right now is, one, dealing just with the overflow of cases were seeing in many hospitals around the country. But more importantly, planning for whats coming. Chris, we could easily go far north of 200,000 cases a day, which means that we could be talking about another 40 to 80 of cases above what we have. Thats the challenge before us right now. Lets talk about in more granular terms about Hospital Capacity. Yep. The first time this thing blew through the world in this country, Hospital Capacity was the main fixed variable ha their eyes on. We have seen when hospitals become overwhelmed that fatality rate goes up. One of the things that has happened is the fatality rate has gone down as weve gotten better at treating them. What is going to happen in these hospitals and what are we up against in terms of capacity where you have intense localized outbreaks . You know, capacity is often measured in number of beds and thats actually a misnomer in terms of how prepared you are to respond. Its the ability to actually recruit the kind of expert medical people that you want, the people who have intensive care experience. And when we had the original big peak in new york last march and april and then we had the peak this summer in florida, georgia, arizona, texas, and california, we actually moved people around the country to help go into those areas and support that kind of expertise. We cant do that right now because everybodys a house on fire. So one of the real challenges were going to have is were going to be seeing more and more care provided by hospitalists, family practitioners, et cetera, all physicians, nurses, et cetera who are doing their very best, but theyre not intensivists. Theyre not the doctors and nurses and respiratory therapist teams that work in intensive care. That means for certain the actual percentage of patients dying who are in these hospitals will increase. The Hoover Institution affiliated radiologist who has been running essentially point for the nations response, a guy by the name of scott atlas, hes been pretty clear and the president s been pretty clear. At a certain point they pivoted to let the virus go wild and focus on therapeutics in hospital settings to reduce fatalities there and protecting vulnerable populations. I guess my question is those therapeutics the president promised everyone when he got out of the hospital that everyone would have and have cheaply, like is that the case . Well, the problem we have right now with the therapeutics that actually hold the most promise for having some impact in terms of new ones treating covid are the monoclonal antibodies. And we know that those antibodies have to be given in the very earliest hours of ones clinical illness. And when youre a company that you have 50,000 doses on hand and you can only make x amount and youre seeing 100,000 cases a day or more, and then you have to figure out whos going to get it, where are they going to be infused because they have to be infused with this monoclonal antibody, it just doesnt work. So one of the challenges we have is its not just enough to say you have a drug that might keep you from becoming severely ill, but how would you ever use it . And thats the challenge were seeing right now. The president , ben carson, apparently others have had access to these sort of cuttingedge treatments. Thats not widely available. Theres a capacity issue. Theres also this idea, and weve seen it, and we knew it wouldnt work, so youll forgive me if a get a little angry talking about this. That theres a universe in which you can let the virus go wild, and it stays out of longterm care facilities, that you protect vulnerable populations. Again, covid tracking is showing its all over longterm care facilities now. Like what do we do now . Well, the challenges and the fallacy of that whole theory about developing herd immunity by letting it just run willynilly was that how do you bubble up 40 of our Adult Population that have increased body mass indexes that puts them at risk for serious disease . All the underlying conditions that exist. Then for that matter, transmission. Youre a single mom. You have two young kids. You live in an apartment with your mother, and youre an sean worker. You have to go to work every day just to make sure you have a roof over their heads. How do you bubble that person when they come home to be with their mother and their two children . That just doesnt work. So were always realized that that is not the answer is to just try to bubble up those that are at high risk. As you point out, you know, the people who work in longterm care facilities, they go home to those same situations. And so it is a real challenge. You cant bubble it up. Weve got to do what we can to stop transmission throughout the entire community. So we have seen in the eu countries announce another round of shelter in place orders. Some of them less stringent than the first one. What im watching policymakers in the u. S. Do and this is republican and democrat is essentially try to balance two impossible competing imperatives. Governor cuomo saying today were going to start closing restaurants at 10 00 and gyms at 10 00. And people say, well, does covid clock out at 9 59 . What exactly is going on here . The rationale is here, and i see it, these businesses are all hanging on by a thread. Theres no more federal support coming right now, and so they dont want to be the ones to snip out the last part of their lifeline. So what were getting out of these half measures that attempt to kind of combat transmission and kind of keep the businesses alive. And my question to you is, is that enough and is that going to work . You know, it doesnt work for either one. Thats the problem. You know, i published an oped back in early august in the New York Times with the president of the Minneapolis Federal reserve bank, and he brought his economic expertise. I brought my epidemiologic expertise. We said in that piece that what were seeing right now would happen. We said the only way to stop that is to learn from what the Asian Countries did, where they really locked down and i hate that term. If you interview 50 people today and ask them what a lockdown is, you get 75 different answers. The point being is what we were talking about is today in this country the savings rate has grown dramatically during the pandemic. Rather than 8 of personal income being saved, its up to 20some percent. We could actually borrow all of that money thats sitting in our banks at historic low Interest Rates and use that as a stimulus to actually pay people who are being hurt by losing their work, pay Small Businesses so that they wouldnt suffer. We could actually take care of cities, states, and counties, keep them whole. And you know what . Then we could do what they did in asia. Look at what they did in and dont tell me its just the authoritarian countries. I realize new zealand and australia are both islands but they had real problems going on, and they basically quashed both of them just using Good Public Health methods that we could do if we could get the number of cases down. All right. Dr. Michael osterholm, thank you so much for sharing your time. Come back anytime. Thank you. Tonight in just a few days since the president lost his reelection, why are trump loyalists being installed in important pentagon positions . Well try and get some answers next. These are all great. 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President trump and the vast majority of the Republican Party continue to block the process both by refusing to release the federal funds to officially begin the transition and get folks email addresses and office space and all that, and by outright denying that joe biden has won an election he clearly has won. The Trump Administration isnt just refusing to move forward. They are also actively moving trump loyalists into positions of power within the department of defense. On sunday night, mark esper, a man appointed by the president , was still the secretary of defense. His chief of staff was jen stewart, former Top Republican staffer on the House Armed Services committee. His undersecretary of defense of policy was james anderson, an academic and former marine. And his undersecretary of defense for intelligence was joseph kiernan, a former s. E. A. L. Team commander. That was the leadership team. Just days later, all those people are gone. They are replaced instead by a whos who of trump loyalists and hatchet men. The acting secretary of defense chris mill irwas moved from the National Counterterrorism center, jumping the deputy secretary of defense in a move that may not be legal. His chief of staff is now kash patel, which may ring some bells. A former white house staffer and aide to none other than congressman devin nunes, who crafted a dubious memo denounced by the fbi to discredit the origins of the investigation into trump teams contacts with russia. The man listed as performing the duties of undersecretary of defense for policy is anthony tata, who Mitch Mcconnells own senate would not confirm for the role over the summer because hes so out there. I think he told a former cia director to, quote, eat a gun once. He famously called president obama a terrorist leader and a muslim. And the man responsible for intelligence in the Defense Department is now ezra cohenwatnick, who reportedly helped devin nunes event a scandal over the unmasking of trump officials. What are all these people doing in the pentagon, and why have they all been moved to those positions now . Someone we hope can help answer this question, spencer ackerman, National Security correspondent at the daily beast. His latest peace piece is titled infamous maga figures rush into purged pentagon. First i want to start with giving people a little perspective. How common is it for those four positions at dod to just be wiped out and replaced in a day or two . Never. I havent heard of it. This is not a situation that has happened probably in the history of the department of defense except for i dont know, maybe like final days of transitions as people kind of cycle in and out. But thats not whats happening here. Whats happening here is a purge. And the burpurge we shoul just also note that like the u. S. Military is one of the three most complicated organizations on planet earth probably. I mean i dont know. The chinese red army, our military. Its just an enormously complicated thing with an 800 billion annual budget and a Million People, and like its not something that you can just like throw the keys to, to any four yahoos you find. No, its definitely not, and you really dont want to throw any military keys to any yahoos. This is a very, very serious thing thats under way now. In particular, what were waiting to see is what chris miller, the acting secretary of defense, will do. The main question that i cant get a solid answer to is everybody whos talked with chris miller, whos a former green beret, has a lot of respect for him and describes him as having a lot of gravitas and a lot of integrity. So why, then, is he there . What did mark esper say no to that trump thinks chris miller is going to say yes to . And you dont have the answer to that . I wish i did. One speculation i really do honestly. One speculation that i keep hearing is that basically miller is in place to launder his integrity through whatever tata and ezra cohenwatnick and kash patel are going to ultimately do. Some speculation runs that theyre there to basically ransack intelligence, particularly in ezra cohenwatnicks new direct rat to make sure that ultimately when president elect biden takes office, theyll have a whole lot of dirt that they can try and feed republican officeholders and probably to conservative media as well. Other speculation, which gets like pretty scary, is that who knows if theres going to be another confrontation with iran before trump leaves . In a couple days, mike pompeo is going to go fly to the middle east, and hell be meeting with pretty much the antiiran coalition, the uae, saudi arabia, and israel. No one that ive talked to really knows, and i think thats both an important thing to tell your viewers, and also a scary thing that the country ought to know. That right now yeah. No, finish your sentence. No, that right now you have a circumstance where the entire pentagon leadership is sort of mysteriously turned over and people both in the building and recently out are not sure what the purpose of this will ultimately be. Few people think that miller is there to keep trump in office illegally beyond january 20th. Honestly, i really hope thats the case, and i hope that the people who know chris miller and are vouching for him to not just me but a lot of other reporters have it right. There does seem a thread here about intelligence. You know, these are people David Ignatius had a column in the Washington Post that was about a kind of backdoor nigfig with gina haspel. Its their last chance to to make whatever cases they want to make about the corrupt russia hoax, yadda yadda yadda, and theres maybe a back door fight with gina haspel over at cia. When you look at particularly patel and cohenwatnick, these are kind of guys who have been sort of doing this stuff for devin nunes and others around intelligence for a while, which suggests maybe thats part of it. Yeah. Ezra cohenwatnick worked for mike flynn at dia as well. These are guys you go to to manufacture scandals, particularly to misrepresent intelligence and try and gin up controversies in order to distract from the agenda that youre actually pulling off. And given their histories, i would expect thats exactly why theyre put into these exceptionally powerful positions. Theyre put in im told that ezra cohenwatnick is not just the acting undersecretary for intelligence right now, but he retains his former role as the acting assistant secretary of defense for special operations and low intensity conflict. He doesnt have operational control. He doesnt, you know, have a role in the chain of command, but he has oversight over all of these things, and its a tremendous possibility in the hands of someone who, you know, people at the pentagon describe to me and people who used to work with him at the nsc describe to me is not just manifestly unfit but absolutely the last person that you should have in these roles. Oh, well, thats an unnerving report from spencer ackerman, who is one of the great reporters on this beat. Thank you, spencer. Appreciate it. Ahead, there is no evidence whatsoever of any widespread voter fraud, and yet the president and his enablers continue to peddle conspiracy theories. Well talk about what it will lead to just ahead. 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Theyre tons of quotes from tons of officials up and down the chain. And the thing that donald trump and his allies keep insisting is happening in an effort to cling to power, it just is not happening. And pretty much every supposed example that hes given has preposterously blown up in their faces. Senator Lindsey Graham called for a department of justice investigation after a pennsylvania postal worker alleged he witnessed ballot tampering. The postal worker promptly signed an affidavit recanting his allegations and admitted he made it all up. In nevada, republicans sent a criminal referral to the doj alleging thousands of cases of voter fraud. But their list of alleged fraudsters included many members of the military who say had been transferred to another base and they and their families were not happy to be cited as part of an evil plot. There is no evidence of voter fraud in this election no matter what donald trump and the republicans claim. Heres the thing, though. This really drives me a little nuts. There is actually one real example of the type of thing republicans are talking about that actually did happen in the last four years. In an election actual election with absentee ballots and it didnt involve democrats in. 2018 midterms, North Carolina republican mark harris, a conservative pastor, had a slim lead over his democratic opponent in that race when the initial results came in. But the North Carolina elections board refused to certify the race amid rumors of questionable activities. And after regulators noticed that in North Carolinas bladen county, harris won 61 of absentee ballots even though republicans there accounted for just 19 of them. Hmm, doesnt quite work. Now, harris tried to ignore the scandal and he went to court to try to get his victory certified with the full support, lets be clear, the full support of the state Republican Party. But a judge rejected their claim, and with good reason, because it turns out that drum roll harris had hired this guy, convicted felon mccray dallas, to help with his get out the vote efforts. And mccray dallas had allegedly orchestrated an absentee ballot scheme, which according to testimony included operatives forging signatures and just flat out filling in votes as part of an illegal effort to help republican mark harris win. Now, that is exactly the kind of thing republicans claim theyre so worried about that the evil democrats in the big cities do with all that means. But do you remember them making a big deal out of one of their republican candidates doing this in 2018 . Did anyone say anything . No. Me either, because they didnt. Of course they didnt. They either tried to just sweep it under the rug or in the case of mitch mcconnell, he actually blamed democrats for voter fraud perpetuated entirely by republicans. Now, one lesson here is that republican voter fraud claims are entirely insincere. The other is you cant really do voter fraud at scale, which is what you would need to affect the outcome, without it being obvious. You get caught, which is why republican claims of rampant, massive fraud now are so ludicrous and why what theyre doing is so poisonous. Were going to talk more about that next. So, you can have open window freshness. Even with all the windows up. Enjoy fresh, any time, with febreze. For people with Heart Failure taking entresto, it may lead to a world of possibilities. Entresto is a Heart Failure medicine prescribed by most cardiologists. It was proven superior at helping people stay alive and out of the hospital. Heart failure can change the structure of your heart so it may not work as well. Entresto helps improve your hearts ability to pump blood to the body. And with a healthier heart, theres no telling where life may take you. 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For deep, lasting hydration try olay. Trump tv dead enders are still out there selling conspiracy theories of voter fraud to explain his loss to joe biden. Last night laura ingraham, who has promised her audience she would, quote, continue to spread trumps message, brought us this truly awardworthy special investigation. You saw something suspicious. Were going to get right into it tonight, happening on the side of Biden Harris Van in the parking lot of the polling station. Now, walk the audience through what happened. I went out to go for a walk on my break, and i could see these people hand over what appeared to be white envelopes, just hand over onto this table. And as i got closer, the envelopes were being torn open. There were two men there were two people dropping the envelopes and two people ripping them open and turning and facing the van and throwing them. As i was walking, they would put things down and pick more paper up and mark on and put them down and pick some more up. And as i got closer, i thought those are ballots. Did you . Just to be clear about this, an anonymous pom worker says she saw two men in a van with biden harris in a van out behind the polling place marking out a bunch of paper that prompted the thought, those are ballots. This extremely irresponsible viral anecdotal nonsense has absolutely flooded facebook and trump tv to create an impression among tens of millions of americans that donald trump actually won the election. Its the sort of thing thats being pushed to the American People by trump tv. Lets talk about what this is all about judith brown dianis. The focus is on Voting Rights and participation, particularly in communities of color. Theres one line that ive seen people saying and this is a lot of anonymous republican officials speaking to reporters in all of their cowardly glory, saying, well, the president needs to come down from this. He wants to gin this up. Just let him have his fun. Whats the effect of this message, this drumbeat day in, day out about those people stealing your election . Well, chris, weve seen this bad movie before. We saw the republicans take out that playbook around voter fraud in the 2011, right, after obamas elected, right after that, they Start Talking about voter fraud to gin up concerns about voter integrity for the 2012 election. And as a result of that, what we saw were states rushing to pass laws that were more restrictive, voter i. D. Laws in particular, knowing and one North Carolina court said in one of our cases that those laws were surgically crafted to suppress the vote of black voters. And so this is this is the downside of this, right . First of all, calling into question the integrity of our democracy is one problem. Two is that the way that he is talking about it, targeting atlanta and detroit and philly, the same cities that he talks about when he talks about the protests and he talks about the socalled thugs who are out in the streets. Mmhmm. Where he has to use law and order. These are the same places where hes now saying voter fraud happened. And so we know that the target will be on black and brown voters. And what will happen is in the next legislative session in many of these states, were going to see more restrictive laws. Were going to see making it harder to vote for particular groups of people. Im sure mailin ballots will be the whole process around mailin voting is going to be harder. And heres the thing, is the reason theyre also going to do that is because we had almost 160 Million People who voted, and they know when we vote, we win. And so theyre going to try and make it harder, and its going to you know, well be in a fight in legislative sessions around the country. Its also striking to me, you know, theres this caricature, sometimes accurate, of a certain kind of liberal whos out of touch with the country, and theres this famous quote by the film critic in the new yorker in the 1960s, pauline kael, who said i think it was after 1972, i cant believe nixon won. No one i know voted for him. Its like, right, youre in a very small circle of people that voted for mcgovern. Its a big country out there. It strikes me how much whats happening on trump tv is the inverse of this. Theyre out of touch. Its inconceivable that a majority of americans dont like donald trump. They voted against donald trump by 6 million, 7 million votes, by four percentage points. Theres amajority of people that dont like donald trump, and theyre so out of touch, that it has to have been some other explanation. Right. I mean this is the parallel universe that he has created for us. And unfortunately there are people who are buying into it, and that means that were going to have were kind of having this democracy civil war, right, around like what what does voting look like in our country, and what should it look like . Right. And i am very worried as a Voting Rights lawyer, as a civil rights lawyer about what is to come because we know states like michigan, where they passed a Ballot Initiative in order to make it easier to vote, were going to see those restrictions. We still have not had the Voting Rights act reauthorized, the Voting Rights advancement act named after john lewis now hasnt gotten through the senate. So we dont have the protections we need, in addition to which we have a department of justice that instead of enforcing our civil rights, is looking for voter fraud. So were in a little bit of trouble in whats to come in terms of participation, and i think what this calls for is this calls for a prodemocracy movement. All the people that we saw in the streets dancing with joy are the same people who need to be saying, i vote, i count. Yeah. The idea of a prodemocracy movement, i mean thats what is so you know, thats the existential canyon that we were sort of perching our toes over, you know, and that still feels like were standing there. And any second someone might come and shove us. I think thats why people feel pretty stressed out still because this is what it is. Like if the votes come in and a person wins, then they take office. Thats how it goes, and there are people that dont want that to be the case. I mean its just crazy. 160 Million People almost, and were still saying that this doesnt matter. And so, you know, i just think that i mean i wish he would go away just like he said the pandemic and coronavirus would go away, but thats not happening. And what its doing is that he is just ginning it up. And unfortunately, chris, we dont have enough people in his party, republicans standing up and saying no. Now, we do have secretaries of state. Yep. Who are saying, wait a second. I ran a very good election. Yes. It was a very clean election, and i had integrity in my election. And so we are seeing that. But like and were seeing the courts saying, theres no voter fraud. Theyre throwing those cases out. Theres no evidence. I will tell you, chris, you and i as lawyers, we know, like, these lawyers need to stop filing these frivolous, baseless cases before they get sanctions against them, right . Yep. Because there is no there there. So americans need to start shouting from the rooftops, i voted. I count. This election matters. 160 Million People had their say, and we are not going backwards. All right. Judith browne diani, is. Thank you so much. If youve been wondering what to do for the upcoming holidays, youre in luck well, none of us are in lock. Dont go anywhere. We have two doctors standing by to answer all those questions right after this. Its shiori. What . Shi or i adam, emily and then. Suh um. Its shiori. Shori. Thank you, thats great. Shiori in japanese there you go. Yeah. in japanese wow, it looks beautiful in japanese really . i really like it. My gums are irritated. I dont have to worry about that, do i . Harmful bacteria lurk just below the gum line. Crest gum detoxify works below the gum line to neutralize harmful plaque bacteria and help reverse early gum damage. Crest. Lexus has been celebrating driveway moments. Heres to one more, the lexus december to remember sales event. Lease the 2021 rx 350 for 419 a month for 36 months and well make your first months payment. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. Tonight, try pure zzzs all night. And well make your first months payment. Unlike other sleep aids, our extended release melatonin helps you sleep longer. And longer. Zzzquil pure zzzs all night. Fall asleep. Stay asleep. I think each family is going to have to make a Risk Assessment about what the risk and benefit of what we all feel is such an important tradition that weve had since, you know, the beginning of our nation, is thanksgiving, its an important family holiday. My wife and i are going to have dinner together, a quiet dinner. Were going to get on zoom and were going to talk and smile and laugh and drink and eat with our children who are doing it distantly and virtually. Did dr. Faucis discussion of zoom thanksgiving bum you out tremendously when you saw it just now or before . Because it definitely did to me because i love thanksgiving, its my favorite holiday. For years weve done it at my parents house. My mom makes a stuffing with stale italian bread and parsley. But its a bunch of people indoors in the midst of a pandemic and it doesnt work. Were not going to do this this year. If your heart is set on traveling or having people over for thanksgiving, you need to listen to me next guest, an Emergency Room Physician who contracted coronavirus and has since recovered, and a members of the federation of scientists covid task force. Lets start with an openended question. Thanksgiving plans. How should people be thinking about it . The same way we thought about the holidays when this pandemic started which means you need to be with your Nuclear Family in your house. If you want to do a zoom, having the same meal at the same time, thats great. There should be no interstate travel, you shouldnt be eating with anyone you dont live with. Unfortunately the pandemic is raging all over the country. Theres nowhere safe. And no test can guarantee that youre not bringing the virus into your house. Youre nodding your head, doctor. Yes, its important to understand now is the time to quarantine for 14 days if youre going to merge your bubbles. If you want to merge your nonhousehold members, youll want to quarantine now and add on preventive layers. You can have it outdoors, keep family units together, dont share utensils. These are things we want to continue to do to essentially reduce the risk of contracting and spreading covid19. There is no face of covid19. You dont see somebody and say oh, they have covid19. You want to assume everybody has it. So you want to take on these preventive measures weve been discussing for months on end. I know ive been working through this, trying to come out, like how can i escape my own Public Health commitments so i can see my family on thanksgiving, literally an intellectual game ive been playing with myself. So i say, what if its just a few people and everyone gets tested and then they lay low for a bunch like a week. So theres no way around this. I mean, i think everyone i know has asked me about special rules, getting tested, waiting for a period of time, testing people at the door. And we saw this at the rose garden. I mean right. Lets be honest, a super spreader event that had testing, quote unquote. There are no guarantees. People are going to do things and take risks. Were trying to give people advice to mitigate those risks. If youre trying to do the right thing, unfortunately, chris, you cant get around the rules. Okay. But it isnt binary, right . I think the safe esst thing to is have it with your Nuclear Family and zoom in to other people. Right. Thats clear. Not everybody is going to do that. On a risk spectrum, its going to be cold in much of the country, but if you need to see people and maybe you have like a drink or a celebratory something outdoors, like outdoors is so much better than indoors. Like, the idea of people in a house, in winter together, thats like the nightmare scenario for spreading, am i right . Thats absolutely right. We talk about risk of transmission increases if youre in confined spaces, crowded, you know, areas, and, you know, you have poor ventilation. Thats kind of a super spreading setting right then and there. So you want to avoid these three cs. Have it outdoors. Voice etiquette, at the holidays people like to sing, to chant. These are activities that spread more droplets and aerosols. You want to not do these things, keep the family units together, spread it out. These are tips. We want to make sure people are doing it safely as much as possible. What are you seeing right now in new york city . Were not in were nowhere like what were seeing in north dakota, and its nowhere like what it was in april, thank the lord. But it is going up, right . Yeah, its going up. I mean, the numbers on the dashboard from the governor dont lie. Were seeing positive test rates between 3 and 5 all over new york. Its real and its happening on the ground. Were seeing an increased number of cases in all the hospitals in new york city and new york state. Its not the same as the dakotas or the midwest where theres 100 capacity in their hospitals. So new york is not the same as the rest but we are seeing an increase in cases. We should say the cdc, which, you know, is a Legendary Organization who has been sort of dragged through the mud during the Trump Administration, says the safest way to celebrate thanksgiving this year is to celebrate with people in your household. One thing i would like to talk about, i think this is really important, is risk is relative to community transmission. And, like, that was true during periods when there was very low transmission after some big waves. The country is in the fullout outbreak that will be worse than anything weve seen. Like, that just changes the risk calculation around everything. It sucks but its true. Yeah, youre absolutely correct. You know, were seeing fires all around the nation. And theres no one area that really is being spared. If youre looking at the data, all states unfortunately are trending in the wrong direction. As much as you can do it locally, you know, staying in your household, that is the safest way to do so. Because even the sheer fact of travel has risk associated with it, because you may be exposed at various points. So, really important to take all of that into context. The other thing ill quickly point out, the risk is not uniform. You may be healthy, you may be young, you may think, im going to go ahead to grandmas house and celebrate with family members. We know that event young can get infected and succumb to the disease. Then we also have what we call long covid. We cant just look at the disease based on the infections, there is significant morbidity as well. People feel fatigued, ive come to absolutely loathe the gd mask i have to put on my face. I put it on, im not taking it off, i get it. But there is a certain level of fatigue. Look, its totally understandable, weve been doing this just under a year. Its remarkable weve come this far. Theres light at the end of the tunnel. There is promising news about a vaccine. We may only have to do this a few more months. Unfortunately the best protection from getting long covid or dying is not getting infected in the first place. Were going to see new leadership come in, better communication, and probably a vaccine very soon. Please, just hold on for a few more months. He can do this together. Doctor, if you tell me we can have thanksgiving next year, no, im serious, if you tell me its done for the next few years, at a certain point its like, what are we doing here. If we can make it through this period, that gives me something to shoot for. Oh, absolutely, this is going to be a very rough few months ahead but certainly next year and the holidays well be in a much better position because we have a better exit strategy. We have more tools in our toolbox. Well have more the vaccines will be made available, there will be multiple different types by that time. Well be in a much better position come next holidays. But you want to live for the next holidays. So do it safely this year so you can celebrate it next year with your family. Just imagine if someone got sick after you had one of these gatherings and how you would feel about it. Doctors, thank you both for making time tonight, that was really helpful. Thats all in on this wednesday night. Stay safe out there please, please, please. The Rachel Maddow show starts right now with ali velshi in for rachel, good evening, ali. Thank you, chris, have a good and a safe night. Thanks you to for joining us this hour. We have breaking news on the covid front. We have just learned 144,000 people, new cases, have been reported in the United States. That is by far a record for new infections. 144,000, more than that, actually, thats just our rough initial count that weve got. Rachel continues to quarantine as she came into contact with someone who tested positive for the coronavirus. She is fine, shes just