Like this. Maybe we would seek fairness and seek real answers and seek permanent change and Solutions Rather than just picking sides. Because at the end, we need to be on the side of whats right for those children. Thanks for watching. Im al sharpton. Have a great weekend. Hardball starts right now. The robbery and the tape. Lets play hardball. Good evening. Im in for chris matthews. Leading off tonight, there have been big developments out of ferguson, missouri, today. This Morning Police finally released the name of the officer who shot an unarmed teenager to death last saturday. Darren wilson is a sixyear veteran of the force with no history of disciplinary action
against him, according to the chief of the force. Police also released information about what they say Michael Brown was up to in the minutes before he was shot. Police made public this video of a robbery at a nearby store saying the person in the video was Michael Brown. According to a Police Report brown allegedly tried to leave the store with several packs of mini cigars without paying but was completed by the clerk. Brown grabbed the employees shirt and pushed him into a display rack. Thomas jackson laid out a timeline of events that led many to conclude that the officer was responding to a description of the suspect this the robbery. This afternoon jackson said the officer wasnt aware of the robbery. Listen to this exchange. Did you know he was a suspect in a case or did he not know . He did not know. It had nothing to do with the stop. Nothing to do with the stop. Then why release the video . At this point, why did he stop Michael Brown . Because they were walking down the middle of the street blocking traffic. That was it. And then just moments ago, another turn in the story. The Ferguson Police told nbc news the officer who did the shooting saw mike brown with the stolen cigars and thought brown might be a suspect in the robbery. Brown family today blasted the Ferguson Police force for what they called a strategy of blaming the victim. Todd johnson is a reporter for the grio and joins us from ferguson. Todd, thanks for being with us. There is a lot of confusing, almost baffling information from the Police Department in ferguson. I want to make sense of this first to understand exactly where we are. This morning they put out a video. Their clear implication is there is a connection here. This afternoon the chief of police gives the press conference are. Hes asked several times if the officer was responding to the robbery. He says no. This was about getting him out of the street and not blocking
traffic. Then apparently after the press conference we are now finding out that the chief is now telling people, well, wait, the officer saw cigars and made a connection. Is that the official story of the police now . Im confused just listening to you recap whats happened today. You can imagine what the residents here in ferguson are feeling. Everything that youre describing did happen from one story to the next story to a little modification of the same story. People are confused and still unsettled as to why they dont know what happened when Michael Brown died. Okay. So he was encountered in the middle of the street and then perhaps the officer did see the mini cigars. Then it clicked and dawned on the officer that perhaps mike brown was a suspect. The crucial piece of information that everyone here and all other the Community Want to know is what happened next . What led to the use of this deadly force . All of the residents i have talked to surely understand that a pack of mini cigars or whatever mike brown allegedly took from the store isnt worth his life. Todays events did nothing to build trust or change feelings residents have in the community about the Police Department. Thats as problematic as you can imagine. Especially in a day and time where the Police Department are trying to do the exact opposite build trust, build community relations. Today is an example of how not to do the that. It seems awfully fishy to me. At this press conference as we say, the chief is asked over and over again about, you know, does the video you put out this morning have anything to do with the stop. He repeatedly says at the this press conference, no. The officer was just dealing with you know, basically jaywalking. It strikes me as odd that he wouldnt only after the press conference would he say, there was another reason. He was responding to the rob ary. It seems fishy like somebody got his ear after the press conference and said, though, this is not the official line. This might be extreme but it might be time for the chief of police of ferguson to kien of stop talking or at least get everything together before he gives press conferences. Again, the people that i have talked to today just arent buying the altering of events every few hours there is a new story. You can imagine in the morning when everyone was anticipating that the officers name was going to be released that there was at least going to be comfort that the Police Departments and the investigations were going as planned and that we were going to be closer for the residents in ferguson as a community to be closer to the knowledge that they want to know and the information they want. Certainly now towards the end of the day and into the demonstrations that will continue into the night, it gives no one any solace that the stories changed throughout the day. People want to know why the videos were released in the first place. Why were stills released of mike brown in a Convenience Store minutes before he died, released if the chief doesnt know if the they are related to how he died or why he was stopped. Again that builds into this mistrust of the ferguson residents into the Police Department. It didnt help anyone today for the information to come out the way it did. The other information missing here when you look at this Police Report and the information that was put out today, it mainly pertains to this robbery, the cigars. There is no real information there about the shooting itself. Again, correct me if im wrong here. My impression has always been its a standard thing in Police Forces just about anywhere when a weapon is used, when you discharge a weapon for any reason. You as the officer have to file a report. Maybe thats not the case in missouri, in ferguson. Should there be other pieces of information, pieces of paperwork filed by the officer, by the Police Department being withheld that we should have access to now . Perhaps in the oncoming days there will be, steve. Another part thats bizarre to people is the justification for why the police chief released Surveillance Video of whats allegedly mike brown in the first place. He said the reason even though its not related is because the media asked for it. Several members of the media looked at each other and said, didnt we ask for information about the shooting . A lot of people didnt know a robbery occurred. For the police chief to put it on the media and say that was the reason that the Surveillance Video and stills were released also left a lot of people in the media confused. We have confused members of the media. Confused members of ferguson and people who distrust the Police Department. You can see why this situation is being pieced together the way it is and why no one really has any idea whats going on. Thank you, todd johnson in
ferguson. The president of the Naacp Legal Defense Fund joins us tonight. Thank you for your time. Im curious what you make of the latest twist as todd is saying at the press conference this afternoon, the chief is saying two things clearly. One that the stop had nothing to do with the robbery. That the officer wasnt aware of that. Two that the only reason the video was released was because the media was asking for it. As soon as the press conference ends the chief is saying, oh, no. Actually the officer knew about the robbery. Saw the cigars and made the connection. Hes justifying putting the video out. It seems fishy to me. Im curious what you make of it. Im not confused. We are at a critical moment now. Look what happened today. We have been clamoring for information about the shooting. We have been asking for the identity of the officer. We have been asking for the incident report. We learned that there was going to be an announcement today. And the thrust of that
announcement was the name of the officer without any identifying information and an incident report and still photos of the robbery that happened at the store. We actually learned really nothing more today about the shooting than we knew yesterday except we know the name of the officer. We still havent seen the incident report. Im pleased my colleagues at the aclu filed suit seeking the incident report. This is a distraction. Its the kind of distraction that unfortunately the American Public falls for too much. This is the moment in which mike brown is being put on trial. His character is being put on trial. The sub text here is, you know are, did he deserve it . Should you trust this person . We are being invited to suggest his life has less value because he was a knucklehead that day many the store robbing those cigars. This is like asking whether eric garner in new york was illegally
selling loose cigarettes. The penalty for selling loose cigarettes or shoplifting from a Convenience Store cannot be being shot down in the streets or choked to death in new york. This is the time when the activists, media in particular, and the American Public has to stay focused on whats important and not become distracted by this effort to turn it into a story about who mike brown is. We need to know who is darren wilson. Where is he . Whats his history in the department. What does his statement say in the report . Hearing the police chief come back as you said after the press conference and say, he saw the cigars in the hand. Why dont you show us the document in which officer wilson describes what he saw, what he encountered, what he did, and why he did it . Its an outrage that we are here today and that they came out purporting to give us information and have given us no
information verifiable information about the shooting. Weve got to stay focused at this moment. This issue is not about mike browns character. This is about the conduct of the Ferguson Police department. Honestly, since we first learned about this incident, they have made either mistakes or very deliberate efforts to distract us from the important issue here. What is it going to take to get the incident report youre talking about that describes the shooting and the Police Version . What does it take for that to see the light of day. Im afraid it will take the litigation thats filed and it shouldnt. This is Public Information. The same way the incident report of the robbery is Public Information we are entitled to receive is the same way the incident report of the shooting is Public Information that we are entitled to receive. This is the kind of disrespect thats produced the anger in the community. Its ignoring whats the proper procedure to make sure this community is informed. Thats why i applaud the parents today. The mom and the family of mike brown for saying remain
peaceful. Stay focused. Think this is a moment when, if we become distracted, we wont get the information we need to see to it that justice is done in this case. Thank you. Appreciate that. With us now from ferguson is u. S. Congressman emmanuel cleaver, a democrat from missouri. Congressman, appreciate the time. The story today about last night was finally a break, finally peaceful protests and calm was restored. In the wake of whats happened today with the video, with the police all over the map in terms of the explanation for that, what are you anticipating tonight . I think the crowd is going to be larger than it was last evening. Its a peaceful crowd. Black, white, brown. Individuals are gathering here peacefully. I can tell you this. What the police chief did today, put on display monumental
incompetency or a very elaborate conspiracy that people here believe the Police Department to do. There are people here who wont speak with the Police Department. One met with the fbi a short time ago. One will meet with the fbi tomorrow. They are not in any way comfortable in having contact with the police here. They think they are about coverup. They believe they are incompetent. There is nothing anybody can show me, tell me that would suggest anything otherwise. Let us assume that Michael Brown stole some cigars. Nobody has provided information that that even happened. But why would a Police Officer then become the police, the judge, the jury, and the executioner for cigars . I think that the police chief is trying to, i think, get us moving in one direction and brick us back to create confusion hoping in a while the plead i cant will leave and the crowds will get smaller. Thats not going to happen. There will be a Church Service tonight on the other side of town where people are going to Start Talking about reconciliation. Let me just say it is extremely difficult to talk about reconciliation when the police chief is stirring the pot more than any demonstrator could do. You talk about witnesses who are afraid to talk to this to come forward to talk to the Police Department. All this sort of chaos today. Then the statements are from the police. Look at the fwags Going Forward are you confident this investigation is going to be able to get to the truth of
this . If the Police Department of this town conducts the investigation, nobody is going to believe it. There is not a teacup full of trust by the community of the Police Department. There is nobody who believes that. As i understand, the county police now are responsible the county is investigating this. Also the Justice Department has come to look for potential civil rights violations. With those investigations in place, do you think well get satisfactory answers on this . I do believe that the Justice Department and the fbi will conduct a thorough and fair investigation. I hope that the police here, the police chief, will never come through and give any information that concludes one way or another on the investigation. He has no credibility in his town. The Police Officer is not required to live here. Thats a problem. They can live anywhere. So if this community is not good enough for them to live in, its not good enough for them to police in. Thats a theme we have been hearing about. A police force that represents the community. Thank you, congressman. Coming up, the Convenience Store video. People were asking why the police waited so long to release it. When the police said the officer didnt know about the robbery the question became why release it at all . Also debate on the right. Conservatives have always supported the police and tough tactics but libertarians are concerned whether this is another sign of the state overreaching. Plus, Texas Governor rick perry who is considering a run for the white house has been indicted for abuse of power. Well get the details later in the show. Finally, life after death in hawaii. This is hardball, the place for politics. Two medium cappuccinos
lets show em what a breakfast with whole grain fiber can do. One coffee with room, one large mocha latte, medium macchiato, a light hot chocolate hold the whip, two espressos. Make one a double. Shes full and focused. [ barista ] i have two cappuccinos, one coffee with room, one large mocha latte, a medium macchiato, a light hot chocolate hold the whip, and two espressos one with a double shot. Heh, heh. Thats not the coffee talkin. [ female announcer ] start your day with kelloggs frosted mini wheats cereal. With whole wheat goodness on one side and a hint of sweetness on the other, its a delicious way to get the nutrition you want. Its a delicious way i dbefore i dosearch any projects on my home. I love my contractor, and i am so thankful to angies list for bringing us together. Find out why more than two million members count on angies list. Angies list reviews you can trust. New polling on the 2016 president ial race. Hillary clintons lead over hir her rivals is shrinking. Clinton leads kentucky senator rand paul by six points. Clinton 48, paul 42. Four months ago the lead was 14 points. Against Chris Christie clinton leads by six, 4741. In april the lead was 11. Against jeb bush, clinton is up by seven points, 4841. The lead was 16 back in april. Well be right back. And with the quicksilver card from capital one, you earn unlimited 1. 5 cash back on everything you purchase. Not just everything at the hardware store. Not everything, until you hit your cash back limit. Quicksilver can earn you unlimited 1. 5 cash back on everything you could possibly imagine. Say it with me everything. One more time, everything and with that in mind. Whats in your wallet . And with that in mind. With the top speedou compare of comcast the top speed of business dsl from the internet. Phone company well, theres really no comparison. Why pay more for less . Call today for a low price on speeds up to 150mbps. And find out more about our twoyear price guarantee. Comcast business. Built for business. Welcome back. As we touched on, new details in the event that led to the fatal confrontation between Michael Brown and the police raising new questions tonight. Ferguson Police Released a videotape they say showed Michael Brown strong arming a grocery clerk stealing a pack of cigars at the same time they released the name of the officer
who killed the 18yearold. Ferguson police chief led many to believe the officer confronted brown believing he was a suspect in the robbery. At 11 51 there was a 911 call from a Convenience Store nearby not this one. At 11 a 52 dispatch gave a description of the robbery suspect over the radio. More detail was given over the radio and stated that the officer was or the suspect was walking toward quick trip. Our officer encountered Michael Brown on canfield drive. At 12 04 a second officer arrived on the scene immediately following the shooting. At 12 05 a supervisor was dispatched to the scene. The police chief held another press conference but said the contact was not related to the robbery of cigars at a Convenience Store earlier. So youre telling us when the
officer stopped Michael Brown the first time, he was not aware brown was a suspect in a robbery. No. He was just coming off of a sick case which is why the ambulance was there so quickly. Lets stay with this. Okay. What are you saying, chief . Did he know that he was a suspect in a case or did he not know . No, he didnt. Nothing to do with the stop . It had knotting to do with the stop. Why release the videos. At this point, why did he stop Michael Brown . Because they were walking down the middle of the street blocking traffic. That was it. Then as we said earlier late today the police said, yes, the officer involved saw cigars in browns hands and did connect it to the robbery. For more on this new information we are joined by Jonathan Cape hart, an opinion writer and msnbc contributor. And jason hayes davis. We are no clearer what the official explanation for why they released the video is. At the press conference this afternoon, you saw the press is incredulous there. They asked, why release it. He turns to them and said because you were asking for it. Then an hour after the press conference hes out there saying the police are saying, well, there is a connection here. We dont have are a clear answer from them. Whats been on display here is just sheer incompetence. Maybe i have lived in big cities too long where im used to the order of things where something that happened in ferguson happened. Then the police are the demand is for the police to come forward with the name of the Police Officer involved and the incident report, the ballistics report. And also the autopsy. I think thats what a lot of people were expecting today in addition to the name of the Police Officer. Instead, what we got was the
release of a report of a robbery and video and stills video camera stills of a robbery that no one knew anything about. Five hours later, come to find out theres no connection between the two of them at all. I mean, all of the good work that the missouri Highway Patrol captain ron johnson did last night in terms of quelling the tension and anger in the community was obliterated this morning and again later this afternoon. From a legal standpoint let me look at the question of the tape with you. We have the police saying the stop itself is not related to the robbery, not related to cigars. At the press conference obviously the chief leaves it there. Then later he says, well, at some point during the stop, the officer saw cigars and made a connection. Based on what you have heard from the police in a court of law would this tape be
admissible . Do we know . Thank you for having me on. We dropped off. I guess you brought it back to me. It looks like listen, based on what i have seen through the media and so forth that tape probably is not admissible simply because it is unrelated to the shooting or alleged shooting, which it was. Everybody knows it was. There at the incident. One of the things i have been writing about, not to change the subject totally, has been this presumption of correctness by the police. This presumption of the legitimacy of the monopoly of lethal deadly force by the police against the general public here in the United States. But in particular in the black community. Thats a big problem. Its not limited to the black community because here in florida you have it from time to time in different counties where you do not have a predominant presence of black americans. But this whole monopoly on the presumed legitimacy of lethal deadly force against citizens of the United States of america is very problematic. Well and, and, let me say one more thing. The issue here is the transparency that apparently is not has not been set forth by the Ferguson Police with this investigation. When government is not transparent with the citizens, weve got problems. Jonathan, what do you think the motive here is . Obviously the family has come out and basically said they are trying to, you know, assassinate his character from beyond the grave. Is that aimed is this a strategy aimed at the court of Public Opinion . Is it aimed at shaping the Media Coverage or is it about looking at potential jurors even and trying to change the way they look at this . Look. I wish i could give the ferguson
Police Department that much credit to be that strategic. The if anything, they are trying to protect their Police Officer and their own operation. Unfortunately, what we are seeing is a level of incompetence that has the entire nation agape and wondering what the hell is happening . The other problem here, steve, is we are dealing with a lot of different jurisdictions having a piece of the pie. We are all yelling or im yelling at the Ferguson Police department. We also have the st. Louis county Police Department. Thank you. That was also involved in this. One thing i want to bring up. In the report that chief jackson released earlier today where they were talking about the Convenience Store robbery, the Police Officer involved in the Convenience Store robbery, when he wrote up the report he was able to corroborate that was
indeed Michael Brown by reading Ferguson Police Department Report 201412391 and st. Louis county Police Department report 201443984. Those are the two reports that the public needs to see. Hasnt been able to see. Absolutely. Transparency is key. We have to run. Thank you to you both. Up next, back to the streets of ferguson, missouri. Msnbcs chris hayes is there. This is hardball, the place for politics. From 2000 to 2011, on average 17 manufacturers a day shut down in america. Theres no reason we cant manufacture in the United States. Here at timbuk2, we make more than 70,000 custom bags a year, right here in San Francisco. We knew we needed to grow internationally, we also knew that it was much more complicated to deal with. I cant imagine having executed what weve executed without having citi side by side with us. Their global expertise was critical to our International Expansion into asia, into europe and into canada. So today, a customer can walk into our store in singapore, will design a custom bag and that customer will have that American Made bag within a few days in singapore. Citi has helped us expand our manufacturing facility; the company has doubled in size since 2007. If it can be done here in San Francisco, it can be done anywhere in america. So im going pro. [ male announcer ] new crest tartar protection rinse. The only rinse that helps prevent tartar buildup and cavities. A little swishing. Less scraping. Yes [ male announcer ] new crest prohealth tartar protection rinse. It helps you escape the scrape. And cialis for daily use helps you be Ready Anytime the moment is right. Cialis is also the only daily ed tablet approved to treat symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently. Tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. Do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as it may cause an unsafe drop in Blood Pressure. Do not drink alcohol in excess. Side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. To avoid long term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. If you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any allergic reactions like rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. Ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a free 30tablet trial. Ask your doctor about cialis for daily use hey there, i just got my bill, and i see that it includes my fico® credit score. Yup, you get it free each month to help you avoid surprises with your credit. Good. I hate surprises. Surprise at discover, we treat you like youd treat you. Get the it card and see your fico® credit score. Welcome back to hardball. Well go back oh to host of all in, chris hayes on the ground in ferguson, missouri. I guess i wanted to ask you, you know, you have watched from afar here in new york. You have been on the ground now for the past day or two. Im curious now that you have seen it first hand what do you
think we as viewers watching from afar are not getting . What can we not see through the tv that we should know about . Reporter thats a great question. One is i think people in ferguson, Black And White across the spectrum, feel frustrated with the image of ferguson, frankly. Ferguson, missouri, a place no one knew about a week ago. Now they associate it with unrest, police violence, local incompetence, s. W. A. T. Teams and teargas. There is frustration with that. I was with a young man who will be on my show. We were setting up for a shot outside ferguson market which is the store where the footage was released today. It had cops outside. There were a bunch of camera crews. I was thinking as a Television Producer that was the best shot. He said, hey, can we go two minutes away to just where people live in ferguson . You can see its the sound of the cicadas and barbecues. And there is a kind of game of
thrones behindthescenes struggle for authority between many complex lines of municipal governance. There is the Ferguson Police, relatively small. St. Louis county police. St. Louis prosecutors office. The city municipal folks who have been sharing cops. There is the governors office. Northern st. Louis county has these different municipalities with very porous borders. The st. Louis county cops are involved in patrolling a lot of them. There are simmering tensions around who decides what and battle for control from a governmental sense here politically as the demographics shifted in north county. Earlier in the show we had a guest on that said all the good achieved in the last day or two by ron johnson taking charge from a Law Enforcement standpoint, that all of the good that was accomplished had been wiped away by what we have seen, the craziness from the police today in these conflicting statements coming out. To what degree is that true . Are you feeling that on oh the
ground . Yeah. Definitely the goodwill dissipated. There was tension in the air. Just going to the ferguson market hours after the foot tanl was released i was there when 12 Police Officers, a mix of state Highway Patrol and st. Louis county cops came in front of it. It was clear the owners of the ferguson market called the cops, fearful after the video got out. The q. T. Was burned down on the first night. There is a lot of anger and a lot of here we go again. They are going to assassinate his character after they killed him. Captain johnson is here tonight. There are Police Officers on the scene here who are talking to poem. One thing i have seen are conversations happening between members of Law Enforcement and protesters on the corner quietly, sometimes heated actually. Back and forth. Those conversations couldnt happen 36 and 48 hours ago
behind teargas and at the point of the gun. There is something different. Does that mean people are less angry . No. People are furious about the footage, particular ly at the Second Press Conference when the police chief said, oh, no, no, that had nothing to do with him being pulled over. Why do you think that . Thank you, chris hayes. He will anchor all thin from ferguson at the top of the hour. Coming up the surprising reaction we have seen. Hardball, the place for politics. [ female announcer ] its simple physics. A body at rest tends to stay at rest. While a body in motion tends to stay in motion. Staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms. But if you have arthritis, staying active can be difficult. Prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain so your body can stay in motion. Because just one 200mg celebrex a day can provide 24 hour relief for many with arthritis pain and inflammation. Plus, in clinical studies, celebrex is proven to improve daily physical function
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was told to get out of the street as a teenager there would have been a possibility that i might have smarted off but i wouldnt expect to be shot. It is impossible for africanamericans not to feel like the government is targeting them. What exactly is going on here . Gene robinson is a prize winning columnist with the washington post. Nick gillespie is a journalist with the reason. Com. We said the party of nixon, law and order, the police are always right. What do you think of rand paul in this moment . We know he has libertarian tendencies. In this moment choosing to weigh in like this. I think hes being opportunistic. Im not using in a pejorative sense. I think he identified an issue and a moment in which his own views coincide with the views of many africanamericans, many
liberals. He seized on that to highlight that. And he feels its an opportunity and hes taking it. Within the republican university, on the right, im curious how this goes over. It was just the Goto Campaign device for republicans is to attack the democrats as the criminal coddlers, ones who didnt respect the police enough. This is the kind of thing they used to go after democrats for. How is this being received on the right . Rand paul is setting up a different constellation of concerns. He was basically the only guy in the senate who is really head out there on privacy issues which really resonated with young voters, especially in a way that nobody was expecting. It was to the shame of the democrats with the exception of ron widen. Nobody talked during his filibuster. What rand paul hes threading a different needle here. Interesting to me on twitter you saw a lot of conservatives including at groups like hot air
and whatnot who were responding to rand paul and the militarization of police issue. A lot of politicians are slipping into libertarian territory. That he see the over use of force as what they dislike about government more and more. Im sure you have been watching rand paul. You have been probably watching particularly closely. A libertarian publication there. Have you seen rand paul over the last year or two . He embarked on the national tour, a listening tour, talking to black audiences. There was a speech ott Howard University we remember. More than that though. Have you seen specific changes in issues hes chosen to address and pigs hes taken over the last year or two you can say are a result of this . Hes been emphasizing things like school of choice and sentencing reform in a big way. Hes talking about marijuana prohibition at the federal level. Hes explicitly said the drug
war is hurting minority communities more than other communities. His growing sensitivity to that and hes using it to talk about government power abuse at all levels. There are people who are skeptical. Heres why some might be. In 2010 paul said he was against parts of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 including the key part of the law that forced restaurants and hotels to serve blacks. Here is paul during the interview with the louisville courier journal back then. Like the Civil Rights Act in the sense that it ended discrimination in all public domains. Im all in favor of that. But [ laughter ] you had to ask me the but. I dont like the idea of telling private business owners. I abhor racism. Its a bad business decision to exclude anybody from your restaurant. At the same time i believe in private ownership. Ask rand paul about the comment then and what hes saying now and hell get offended at the idea there is a difference. But have you noticed changes in rand paul the last couple of years . If you ask him about that quote hell say, it wasnt me. That was my evil twin. Hes flatly disowned that set of views about the Civil Rights Act. He will stick to this revised position as he contemplates or launches his president ial bid. There is a calibration clearly going on. Hes going to face questions about changes and shifts in positions that were once more pure libertarian and now are shading into what a lot of people call real world territory. I think hes stressing the idea of the Republican Party if its goinger forward. He told me in an interview i had with him in San Francisco a couple of weeks ago if
Republican Party has to be the party of live and let live. Thats a radically different message than social conservativism he believes in but recognizes the governing strategy, you have to kick things like drug legalization and gay riegs down to the state level and get them out of washington. He has to face a lot of criticism, mostly from the right on that. I think it will make him seem more interesting to the mass of independents. My question is he getting into a danger zone here . Yes. Yes. A lot talked about moving the party. Hes trying to take steps here. This is a guy who has taken on the military industrial complex. He says you know we shouldnt bomb these countries. He stood up to obama when obama was going to start bombing syria without congressional authorization. He asked for the president to ask for authorization for libya. Hes already neck deep in a lot of deep republican currents. Its those things because hes a true fiscal conservative that he
can say it and change the party. If nothing else, i dont care if a republican wins or a democrat. I think hell make for a much more interesting political discourse about the role and the size, scope and spending of government. Putting him on the stage with Chris Christie, ted cruz and see what happens. Thank you. Appreciate it. Up next, the corruption trial of former virginia trial Bob Mcdonnell. The prosecution has made its case. Now it is the defenses attorney. This is hardball, the place for politics. Were the names you know, in the places you want to be. Where you can explore super destinations and do everything under the sun. Twelve brands. More hotels than anyone else in the world. For a chance to win one million dollars, visit wyndhamrewards. Com
one of the most dramatic stories the country is unfolding in a virginia courtroom. Former Virginia Governor Bob Mcdonnell who many republicans hoped would head to the white house is fighting to stay out of jail. Yesterday the prosecution resteded. Today, the judge denied a request from the defense to dismiss the case. That means on monday, the soap opera defense begins. The former governor expected to take the stand and expose personal details of a troubled marriage. When we come back, the breaking story out of texas tonight where governor rick perry has been indicted on two counts of abuse of power. You pay your Auto Insurance premium every month on the dot. Youre like the poster child for paying on time. And then one day you tap the bumper of a station wagon. No big deal. Until your Insurance Company jacks up your rates. You freak out. What good is having insurance if you get punished for using it . Hey insurance companies, news flash. Nobodys perfect. For drivers with accident forgiveness, Liberty Mutual wont raise your rates due to your first accident. See Car Insurance in a whole new light. Liberty mutual insurance. Machines will be sprayed to be made. And making something stronger. Will mean making it lighter. One day, factories will work with the cloud. One day. Is today. So ally bank really has no hidden fethats right. Accounts . Its just that im worried about you know hidden things. Ok, whys that . No hidden fees, from the bank where no branches equals great rates. Lets show em what a breakfast with whole grain fiber can do. [ barista ] i have two cappuccinos, a medium macchiato, and two espressos one with a double shot. Thats not the coffee talkin. [ female announcer ] start your day with kelloggs frosted mini wheats cereal. Its a delicious way to get the nutrition you want. Its a delicious way wouldnt it be great if hiring plumbers, carpenters shopping online is as easy as it gets. And even piano tuners were just as simple . Thanks to angies list, now it is. Weve made hiring anyone from a handyman to a dog walker as simple as a few clicks. Buy their services directly at angieslist. Com no more calling around. No more hassles. Start shopping from a list of toprated providers today. Angies list is revolutionizing local service again. Visit angieslist. Com today. Breaking political news out of texas now, where governor rick perry has been indicted for abuse of power and coercion of a public servant. Indictment lists two felony counts for vetoing millions of dollars in funding for state public corruption prosecutors. Last year, perry threatened to veto the funding if the District Attorney of travis county, the county around austin, the fda had been convicted for driving while intoxicated, and in the integrity unit. Jim moore has been consulting on texas politics since the 1970s. His new book is called adios, while rick perry will make america miss george w. Bush. Jim, thank you for joining us. If you could quickly explain the basis of this, you have a prosecutor whose office is funded by the state, and the prosecutor gets a dui, is drunk, and will not resign, so rp zeros
out the funding for his office. Wheres the crime here . Well, number one, under texas law, its an abuse of office and a form of coercion, to take money away that the legislature has appropriated in order to get someone to do something. Thats his main problem. But the political rationale behind this for perry was the fact that her office maintains something called the Public Integrity unit, and it investigates the legislature. It has the only authority in the state of texas to investigate ethics and potential crimes in the legislature, and it has historically been run by a democrat, as miss lindbergh was and still is. So the governor wanted her out of the way. He would have gotten to a point of replacement. He would have obviously been a republican. And so he decided to use his office in a way that he could coerce her to get out. Well, im just and i understand i want to get to the strictly legal part of this
in a second. But from a Public Relations standpoint, the court of Public Opinion, im hearing a defense here that might resonate with a lot of voters down in texas, where you have the woman who was in charge of the Public Integrity unit for the state of texas gets a dui. And ive seen the details on this case. I mean, is recklessly drunk. Its a matter of public record. Will not resign her office. And rick perry could say, hey, i was just doing what i could to get her off that office. I imagine court of Public Opinion, he might have some sympathy there. Fair enough, steve. But the further part of this case is that the penalties she suffered was very drastic for a firsttime offender. 45 days in jail, which she served. And the other piece of this that tends to resonate with the public is the fact that perry is trying to circumvent being investigated by anyone, including a republican in charge, whos unlikely to investigate him. And lets be clear. Its not the first time a public
official in texas has been arrested for driving while intoxicated. And weve got a long record in this state of forgiving people and recollecting them to office. And she went into rehab, and announced that shes not going to run for reelection. So it seemed, on perrys part, a kind of power play. But to your point also, it has not really affected him politically, because its a case thats mostly been followed by political insiders. Perrys office put out this statement. The veto in question was made in accordance with the Veto Authority afforded to every governor under the texas constitution. We will continue to aggressively defend the governors lawful and constitutional action and believe we will ultimately prevail. Jim, hes saying he does have the right to veto that funding hes asserting there. But can you speak to the charges against him here. If he were to be found guilty of this, what would that mean . Well, it means its not good. The abuse of office part is a
felony that carries 5 to 99 years. The coercion part is 2 to 10 years, if he is found guilty. But the part of this that hasnt surfaced, and i think is the strongest part of the case. And ive heard this around the courthouse and in political stories in texas, that there is some indication that the governor, after she refused, tried to cut a deal with her and to get her another job, and to suggest that perhaps if she would step aside and allow him to have control of that office and that budget, that he would find of place. And that becomes a kind of inducement that makes it look like its more than simply an act of vetoing the funding, but its a coercion and its a bribe to get her out of office, and its not just the act of a governor doing his job and exercising a line item veto. But even if it is, steve, even if thats all it is, that is an abuse of office under texas law, and thats why hes subject to these indictments. And very quickly, we have a brief statement from them tonight. Do you expect well be hearing
from governor perry soon, himself . I think hes going to stay quiet on this. I think it would be bad for him to step forward. And as everybody knows, in politics, when youre explaining, youre losing. Hes not going to do that. All right, well, geez, all year weve been talking about indictments, governors, republicans, 2016, everyone talks about Chris Christie, rick perry ends up being the indicted governor, at least for right now. Thanks for that. Well be right back after this. Moderate to severe is tough, but ive managed. I got to be pretty good at managing my symptoms, except that managing my symptoms was all i was doing. When i finally told my doctor, he said my crohns was not under control. He said humira is for adults like me who have tried other medications but still experience the symptoms of moderate to severe crohns disease. And that in clinical studies, the majority of patients on humira saw significant symptom relief. And many achieved remission. Humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. Serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. Before treatment, get tested for tb. Tell your doctor if youve been to areas where certain
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thats hardball for now. Thanks for being with us
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