Sh issue. First time they have r had interesting way to take over the magazine. That does it for me. Hardball starts now. Crime and punishment. Lets play hardball. Today Paul Manafort, the president s campaign. Facing years in a u. S. Prison. Whatever you choose to call it, it is past. For a year and a half our country has been contorted into a reality tv show. This is the day we discovered
reality bites. Good evening, i am chris matthews. Heading into round one now. Investigation is underway at a courthouse just across the potomac. He is facing 18 counts of tax evasion and bank fraud. Charges that predate his time on the Trump Campaign. If found guilty, he could get up to ten years in prison. Facing similar charges in Federal Court in washington. Manafort joined the Trump Campaign in march of 2016. Manafort did work overseas. He also had Business Ties with russia. And he took part in that Infamous Trump tower meeting with russians. Where the Trump Campaign was promis promised damaging information. Nbc News National reporter is at the courthouse right now. Reporter chris, the prosecutors laid out a case of greed and lies. They described how Paul Manafort made 60 million working for
this Ukrainian Oligarch but paid through fictitious loans because he didnt want to pay taxes. In order to fund his lavish lifestyle. And the spigot dried up in 2014. Committing bank fraud by Lying On Bank applications. And while this is not about potential russia collusion, it paints a picture of Paul Manafort coming to the Trump Campaign and working for free at a time when he was broke. They are not going to say this in the trial but reasonable people can conclude he was a ripe target for russian
Chris Matthews debates hot political issues with politicians, newsmakers and Washington leaders. Clear that he. He said i hope paul gets a fair trial. It was clear that manaforts lawyers was emphasizing that davine is a strategist. If you are donald trump watching what is going on, what is your concern because if rick gates has flipped against manafort, is trump still worried about manafort flipping. I wonder how nichiian can he be . If he has a bad jury, he is facing a bad jury. He sees the time he is going to serve. Dont do the crime if you cant do the time and he is looking at a lot of crime. Great. And Paul Manafort has done an amazing job. He is here someplace. Where is paul . Good. You made it. That is mr. Manafort, who by the way is an amazing man. Curious about gymnastics that he is trying to distance himself. We reported that he lobbiesed for a host of dictators, problematic third world bully types. You didnt have to be in the cia to understand that this could be someone who had skeletons in his closet. But they didnt do that. They brought him out and treated him like a prince. Here is a guy who is on russian control. The fact that he and trump didnt have a little trash talk about russia alludes me. He owed millions of dollars to oleg. At the end of the day, why was manafort invited to the meeting . This guy has money in his pocket. He knows something on trump that could spring him from prison. Manafort was the chairman, he was in the room for meetings that gates was not at. He had more visibility into the finances of the campaign and the trump organization. He could have more value to mueller and his investigators than gates. He could be right out of the god father. Thank you, betsy woodrow, dave
on any one of thousands of risky sites. Remember this trump tweet from june 13th, just one day after the historic meeting from kim jongun President Trump padded himself on the back saying quote, there is no longer a Nuclear Threat from north korea. Today there is more evidence that trumps declaration might have been pre mature. Working on their Missile Programs as well. The missiles are being built at the same facility that they were being built. Same facility. The white house is not confirmed the story on the record as yet. Well be right back. I have been sitting here in the federal code trying to find collusion as a crime. Collusion is not a crime. According to Rudy Giuliani, attorney at law. Giuliani offering up a misleading line of defense. Now President Trump is doubling down on his lawyers approach tweeting today collusion is not a crime. But that Doesnt Matter because there was no collusion except by Crooked Hillary and the democrats. The usual. A deliberate ploy to rationalize. Anything the president may have done to advance the kremlins conspiracy make him a coconspirator. This comes after giuliani raised another campaign meeting. After his multiple denials. Here is rudy going in circle. There is no second meeting here . It is highly unlikely, i always have to leave the option open as a lawyer. I feel some of the things we feel are important. Joined by michael smith. And paul butler former prosecutor. It seems to me the governor of the United States is now in the hands of atrika. It seems like they are the close, that is the crew, what do you think when you cover this . They are the ones that are driving the entire thing . That Shaean Hannity has a hand
it, of course he does. Fox news and who has led that . Sean hannity. This is the fbi agent who sent these Text Messages that showed anti trump bias. Why are you surprised by it . I am trying to Enuance Yaate the best of my ability. Roosevelt once said tell me who he speaks to after midnight. We know who he speaks to after midnight, rudy and sean. What would have happened to nixon . Where would Public Opinion have been . Let me get back to the law here for a second. This is a unique koounta. Collusion is not a legal term. If you look at a federal code, you wont see something called collusion. There will be conspiracy. When mueller is charged collusion, the actual crime is usually been conspiracy to defraud the United States which jared kushner, don jr. Have exposure to it. So they go to that meeting and the meeting before that meeting. And after they had deliberation over it, that makes it more serious. It is like when the kids
reloaded the guns to shoot the parents. Might be some deliberation. It is a pre meeting. The actual meeting is a big deal which make it is harder why is do you know, michael . The question came up about the first meeting and they are trying to get out in front as much as they can on this question. And they think the only exposure the president has is Public Opinion. If they have given a soft landing, put out the news that there was a meeting, give it all the way, they think it is a softening of the attack. What other choices they snv. They dont have one. Rudy giuliani attempts why he brought out the allegation. According to a story, giuliani appeared to blame the maelstrom
he kicked up on inquisitive New York Times reporters. Told the daily beast that this included the papers star maggie haberman. I think that is a good line from your colleague. Why is Rudy Giuliani spinning the story of two meetings. I think i cant even admit occurred. One of the things he struggles with is the fact that there is so many fronts the president has to deal with. The cohen questions, the Collusion Questions and if you are going to be the lead spokesman for all of this, you need to be well versed in this. And to fight those questions at the same time. He has to spit out his story
that he doesnt believe. The president is obviously incredibly frustrated with the investigation and giuliani is frustrated that he thought he could bring an end to this. What is the legal term, the Courtroom Term for a lawyer who confuses the jury . I dont know, Rudy Giuliani. We know robert mueller, is not going to indict him. He is going to write a report to congress. And then it will be up to politicians. Rudy is making a political argument. And the significance that the president s real lawyer is meeting with mueller. It sounds like trumps real lawyer is hearing from mueller that the investigation is now sn centering on mr. Trump. This political defense may be effective with republicans and
congress. What is it called, reasonable doubt. Give them something to buy. Like a jury that wants to acquit a guy. They sit down and look at the calculation. And the only exposure is impeachment. And those votes are from the people and if you can push Public Opinion, you can control that vote. And that is their only aim. The prospect of the president will testify will become less likely. Here is a big surprise. Given some of the revelations of the last three or four weeks, driven further away from the idea of answering any questions . Them. We dont think they have a legit investigation. Do you think there will be a subpoena, a constitutional fight. Thing we will win it. Will they win it . It will take a long time, you
know, one theory about why the president has not been subpoenaed, the Department Of Justice has a practice that if you are a target of the investigation, they dont subpoena you. So if President Trump has evolved from a subject which means he has been investigated, they wouldnt subpoena him. If we are going to charge you with a crime, then it is not fair for us to come in and expect you to talk to us. The president cant be indicted. Can the president take the fifth . Yes, even under the Justice Department guidelines, he cant be indicted while sitting in office, but after being removed. He can be charged. He says it is an there is so much bs going on. I agree with maggie haberman,
i lost the thread of the defense. Escalating their attacks on the Special Counsel mueller. Lets watch the Trumpians Go To War against the prosecutors. Special counsel is leaking left and right behaving like nothing so much as a prosecutor, he is more, if you will, you know, he is on a jihad of some sort and an ideologically inspired jihad. 439 days into the trump russian collusion, and still, zero evidence that the campaign did anything wrong. Political example. I dont know, what do you make of that, is that logic . I think of the last indictment of the russians, it wasnt just some vague conspiracy. The russians work one named
trump officials to try to get donald trump elected president. Doesnt sound like a witch hunt or politics. It sounds Like National security. Wellsaid. Thank you, sir. I mean it. I wish everybody could have that clarity. That is the truth. Thank you. Up next, the Trump Administration is working on a plan to side Step Congress in order to give another round of the big tax cut to the richest people. The billionaires, did i pronounce it right, senator . This is hardball. I held her. I found my tresiba® reason. Now im doing more to lower my a1c. I take tresiba® once a day. Tresiba® controls blood sugar for 24 hours for powerful a1c reduction. woman wed been counting down to his retirement. It was our tresiba® reason. He needs insulin to control his High Blood Sugar
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if the move is even legal however. Last year trump signed a 1. 5 trillion tax cut. Made Corporate Executives even richer. Writing for the washington post, the witch get richer, the poor get distracted. Trump is a bluecollar guy. Obsessed with cultural issues as the policies he passes benefit his enormous wealth. I am joined by susan page, susan, people are going to be unhappy in hearing this. But 89 of republicans believe he is helping the working people and 89 seem to think he is
helping the rich. That is fine. But trump seemed to be talking like the little guy. It is the guy in the garage who builds up the company. He or she should be making the money. He talked right. He said just the right stuff, the worker bee should get the money. And now he is talking about giving a ton of money. The distribution of the benefit if he does make this change in Capital Gains or tax is really extraordinary. Twothirds of the benefits would go to the people who are in the top of one . People who make more than 7 million a year in income. And who are living off stock. Well, you can live off stock if you have that kind of money. The benefits overwhelming go. Republican party is not just millionaires and billionaires. The regular people who is retired, why would they root for trump to do stuff like this. The Economy Theory is this would free up money to have investments that would benefit the little guy. What they predict would happen it would exacerbate what we see happening, the rich getting richer, and be the poor getting poorer. It would continue that trend and fuel it in a new way. You know what i discovered is a lot of republican businessmen, who are not if you consider them normally, are bad people. But they dont care what a ho e
horse they will put up with all of that embarrassment so they get a tax cut and relief on regulation. They want to sit by and watch this guy humiliate us make ridiculous comments about people. And mock people and bully them as long as they get their piece of money. Some people, friends of mine say they are the criminals. They want the gravy from this guy. Congressional republicans dont challenge President Trump because he is delivering on the policies they care most about like tax cuts or nominations for the supreme court. So that is kind of what the reasoning is. I talked to some republicans on the hill today about this proposal on the Capital Gains tax cut and they say this is a bad political move for them in the midterms. It gives democrats a big tool to
use to talk about how President Trump is not delivering for working voters, including and exacerbating the problems raised by the tariffs and the trade wars. For people like Soybean Farmers in kansas, where my cousin has a soybean farm in kansas and he is incredibly worried. Thank you so much. Up next, some republican political candidates are cozying up to trump this summer. Some are keeping distance. Less than 100 days we are going to have the big vote and you are watching hardball. The line between work and life hasnt just blurred. Its gone. Thats why you need someone behind you. Not just a card. An entire support system. Whether visiting the Airport Lounge to catch up on whats really important. Or even using those hardearned points to squeeze in a Little Family time. No one has your back like american express. So no matter where youre going. Were right there with you. The powerful backing of american express. Dont do business without it. Dont live life without it. Ahoy gotcha nooooo. Noooooo. Quick, the quicker picker upper bounty picks up messes quicker and is 2x more absorbent. Bounty, the quicker picker upper. Cookie. He is tough, he is smart, and he loves florida. And he loves our country and he is going to be your next governor. Ron desantis. Speak at a rally in support of ron desantis for governor down there. Desantis has watch this ad. My husband is endorsed by President Trump. But he is also an amazing dad. Build the wall. He reads stories. And then mr. Trump says, you are fired. I love that part. He is teaching madison to talk. Make America Great again. Big league, so good. I just thought you should know. Fairly embarrassing. Shot up in the polls after challenger put nam after the president endorsed him last month. Mr. Putnams collapse, and mr. Desantiss rise illustrate the extraordinary clout mr. Trump now wields in his adopted party. Lets bring in roundtable to handle that. Michael steele, and host of the new podcast. I want you all to take a shot at this. Rooseve roosevelt thought he could get rid of people, and he couldnt do it. This guy is out there laying down for this guy. The wife is doing it. My husband is great, because he is imitating Everything Trump is doing. Roosevelt had to deal with party bosses. There was no base necessarily. Today, this is all driven by the base, thats why desantis is where he is. That is why he has popped up. The test for him is how does he translate in the general. That is the test ultimately for donald trump. You can fire up your hard right base for that. Now you have to translate that to independence and center right democrats. Who is the democratic nominee for governor down there . I am having fun with you. I am asking you, takes somebody to beat somebody. Beth go ahead. To your point, the problem with the strategy is it doesnt work. We saw it in 2010, and 2014. Barack obama incredibly popular
in his base. And it didnt translate. So it doesnt it worked for me. The fact that trump has been so successful at it is it is great for primaries, doesnt tell you how the generals are going to go. And in georgia, President Trump got involved in that race. Everything you have said is true. And i am stunned by this spiking in the polls. Why does the guy spike up for an idiot commercial like that. It is like the ditto thing with rush limbaugh. I dont know how smart it is to have your wife sit there and say he is just like trump. Would she rather have trump as her husband . Just asking. I think in a case of georgia. What tape was that . He was caught on tape. They went too crazy. To sound too hard right. Editorial entitled trumps lose house strategy. Trump is running a Campaign Strategy that puts the house at maximum risk while focusing the president tweeted again, today, i dont care what the political ramifications are. A government shut down is a small price to play. That tweet is disingenuous. They thinks this is the way to win the house. Whatever the president s party typically loses seats in the midterm. He is trying to fire up the
people who got him in there. It is tough this time. A president with this charisma, this personality could do that. I think the Wall Street Journal is screwing with trumps mind. Why would a president facing a prosecution would want the subpoena party fall into the hands of the other party. Oh my god, i lost the Subpoena Power again. Lost the ability to defend myself. Earlier today, asking about the new rhetoric coming from donald trump. And that collusion is somehow not illegal. What do you think when you see this republican president and his allies say even if they did collude with russia, that is not a crime. I find it extraordinary
offensive. I dont care if it is a crime, it is against the best interest of the United States. You do not collude. For a president to get up there and say, again, the stories change right along. First it was no collusion, and then, it Doesnt Matter. That Republican Party that she represents is dead as a doorknob. East coast. It is dead in jersey, in michigan and a lot of places. They keep trying to move the football, the goal post. Collusion is impeachable. It matters to me. Advancing a criminal conspiracy with the russians. I think to your point about conspiracy, i think that is where they now realize where mueller is going, and that is on the conspiracy piece in which the collusion piece doesnt
matter anymore. I want to get back to my point the Subpoena Power. The one who holds that Subpoena Power, they can subpoena all of these trumpies and bring them before their oath and put them in perjury traps. Trump very much cares about keeping the house. He has got a huge advantage of keeping the senate. I think they are trying to be cute. I think trump wants to win any election he is in. I think if you are going to talk about strategiry here, there is also the size that says i dont think trump cares who has the house. If the dems have the house and they go down the impeachment
road. Pound nancy pelosi in the ground. I dont think that can work for you longterm. And ultimately what he is going to run into what are the democrats going to do. Nobody, no republican right now, and this is what they are looking at now. No one wants to hear his president say political consequences be darned. The Wall Street Journal say he is saying that. If he gets the senate by 53 instead of 51. They get her through. That would give him power. Roundtable is sticking with us. Youre watching hardball. But right now, our bond is fraying. How do we get back to us . The y fills the gaps. And bridges our divides. Donate to your local y today. Because where theres a y, theres an us. With tough food, your dentures may slip and fall. New fixodent ultramax hold gives you the strongest hold ever to lock your dentures. So now you can eat tough food without worry. Fixodent and forget it. Crisp leaves of lettuce. Freshly made dressing. Clean food that looks this good. Delivered to your desk. Now delivering to home or office. Panera. Food as it should be. Wall street journa Attorney GeneralJeff Sessions forming a task force which he says america is becoming less hospitable to people of faith. Lets watch the ag. A Dangerous Movement undetected by many but real is now challenging and eroding a great tradition of religious freedom. There can be no doubt. It is no little matter. It must be confronted intellectually and politically
and defeated. Well, ag sessions went on to praise the bravery of the colorado baker, who refused to bake a wedding cake for a same sex couple. Rare opportunity to arrest these trends. Well be right back. Let your perfect drive come together at the Lincoln Summer Invitation sales event. Get 0 apr on select 2018 lincoln models plus 1,000 bonus cash. Your Digestive System has billions of bacteria but life can throw them off balance. Realign yourself with align probiotic. And try new align gummies with prebiotics and probiotics to help support digestive health. A. Back with the hardball roundtable, tell me something that i dont know. Ron dellums passed this week. His story should be magnified. Thank you. Keep an eye on Eric Swalwell a wellknown guest and feature on msnbc, he is in iowa today. He is campaigning for the Opponent Running against steve kane. 26 people running for
president. He was born if iowa before his father moved the family to california. I like the scoop. Yesterday was the funeral for kenneth lee. One of the first African Americans to be accepted to the law school. Mentored by thorough good marshal. When we return, let me finish with plasticic guns. You are watching hardball. Woman it felt great not having hepatitis c. Its like a load off my shoulders. I was just excited for it to be over. Harvoni is a revolutionary treatment for the most common type of Chronic Hepatitis c. Its been prescribed to more than a quarter Million People and is proven to cure up to 99 of patients who have had no prior treatment with 12 weeks. Certain patients can be cured with just 8 weeks of harvoni. Before starting harvoni your doctor will test to see if youve ever had hepatitis b which may flare up and cause serious Liver Problems during and after harvoni treatment. Tell your doctor if youve ever had hepatitis b, a liver transplant, other liver or kidney problems, hiv or any other medical conditions and about all the medicines you take including herbal supplements. Taking amiodarone with harvoni can cause a serious slowing of your heart rate. Common side effects of harvoni include tiredness, headache and weakness. Ready to let go of hep c . Ask your hep c specialist about harvoni. Its a hightech sleep revolution. The sleep number 360 smart bed intelligently senses your movement and automatically adjusts. So you wake up ready to run the world. The new sleep number 360 smart bed, from 999. Come fly with me, lets fly, lets fly away. Let me finish tonight with plastic guns. Thats right, plastic guns. Here is the president of the United States tweeting on that today. I am looking into 3d plastic guns. I spoke to nra. Against having these weapons accessible. I immediately thought of the Clint Eastwood where the assassins assembles a plastic gun. Why would anyone want a plastic gun. They could make themselves, couldnt be traced. The fact is my field of interest and knowledge is politics and not gun ballistics