Oh the new one well bring out the dogs. Mush dogs barking the old ones just fine well do anything, seriously anything, to help our customers. Thanks. Ally. Do it right. Tonight, they prepare to go before congress and the country. No matter what happens this moment will change our nations politics. Later on, roz roderosenstein. Was he being sarcastic. First, negotiation after negotiation. Shifting the Judiciary Committee on thursday at 10 00 a. M. I, of course, will be there too. Some of the details about this hearing have been worked out. The hearing will be open and dr. Ford will testify first. Democratic senators will ask questions. But important factors are so far unresolved. Like how much time will be allowed for those questions. And then theres the matter of whether republican senators themselves or perhaps their staffers or an outside counsel will do the questioning. This is important in part because all the republicans on the committee are men. At the same time, judge kavanaugh is calling the allegations completely false, saying hes never done anything like what the accuser describes to her or to anyone. The white house says three people identified by dr. Ford as
being at the party where all of this happened say they have no memory of either of incident or the party where it was said to have happened. And then theres the politics. There was a shift this week in tone from republicans from lets hear everyone out to full speed ahead. Judge Brett Kavanaugh is a man of integrity. Brett kavanaugh, fantastic man. A stunningly successful individual. Its going to happen. Its going to happen. Were going to plow right through it and do our job. And i believe that judge Brett Kavanaugh will soon be justice Brett Kavanaugh and take his seat on the Supreme Court. Its worth mentioning that Senate Democrats are still pushing for an fbi investigation before the hearing gets under way. With that, i want to welcome in my panel this evening. With me onset, political analyst and fornler chairman of the rnc, Michael Steele. Washington correspondent and msnbc contributor, catty kay. Joining me from nashville, contributor and the author of the soul of america, mr. John mitch mitchum. Thank you all for being here. Im going to start with you, john. I want to talk about the arc of history. We have this set date and time a moment that, regardless of the outcome, seems sure to end up in our history books. That Christine Blasey ford is a name that well remember alongside anita hill, for example. Im wondering what do you think has changed in the decades since anita hill went before the committee and what does it say about us as a country . Well, precious little has changed since 1991. I think that the Kavanaugh Drama and the thomas drama are ch chapters this a story that goes back to the middle of the 1950s. Its when president eisenhower,
the first republican president in 20 years, imagine that. First republican president in 20 years appoints warren to be Chief Justice of the court. The warren court does remarkably historic rulings on integration. On Sectarian School prayer. Republicans are living to some extent with kind of cultural memory that republican president s have not always delivered on the conservative agenda that the base believed they might deliver on. So if 1962 with the School Prayer decision happened. It was a nixon appointee, Harry Blackman who wrote the roe decision. The first 1990, the first justice, that george h. W. Bush appointed was david suitor seen as a stalking horse, not conservative enough. What youre seeing with the passion of the quotations you just showed, part of whats Driving Trump and pence and mcconnell is this republican insistence that every seat must be ideologically pure. It goes way back, its deep in the dna and the Supreme Court which for much of our history has been political, unquestionably its political. But its become polarized now. Thats the Inflection Point were seeing now. Very interesting. Some republicans on the committee have muted expectations about what may come from thursdays hearing. Heres senator Lindsey Graham. Doesnt know anything that dr. Ford could say that would persuade you to vote against kavanaughs nomination, honestly . I would listen to her. But im being honest with you and everybody else. What am i supposed to do . Go ahead and ruin this guys life based on an accusation, i dont know when it happened, i dont know where it happened and everybody named in regard to being there said it didnt
happen. Im just being honest. She should come forward, she should have her say. Shell be respectfully treated. What did you expect us to do with an anonymous letter to begin with. What do you expect somebody to do with an accusation this big not verified in any way. Bring it forward, i will listen. But im not going to play a game and tell you this will wipe out his entire life because if nothing changes it wont with me. So perhaps, Michael Steele setting aside that anybody could be entitled to a Supreme Court seat. Hes had a distinguished life on the bench. What do you make of Lindsey Grahams response . I think long and short, every republican should keep their mouths shut between now and thursday. The better part of valor is to be quiet and say nothing. Every time they do, they make the situation worse. It is very clear from the very beginning of this, this had been the outcome has been pre judged. If thats not true, in fact, it
is absolutely true in perception. The American People looking at this, particularly women looking at this are feeling and getting the sense that no matter how you work the machinations in the process, you use that as your excuse, your kuj ol, whatever you want. Theyre saying come thursday, the imagery of this woman sitting there in this panel of white men looking down on her and prying into an affair incident that happen very personal incident. The personal incidents given their already public statements makes for a very untenable situation. I understand that theyve got to answer the question. But i think at this point its best to say i plan to hear her out and move on. Every time they open their mouth, it goes a little further south. Catty kay, there will be a difference in that there will be four women on the panel which we didnt have before. Theyre looking for anybody but their republican senators asking the questions. That is one of the things that changed since 1991 in anita hill and the conversation is out in the open. We have now had more women talking about incidents like this and more men being found to be guilty of incidents like this in the public and so women are believed more than they used to be. Now, that doesnt mean this incident happened. It doesnt mean that Brett Kavanaugh is guilty. It means that the shifting since 1991 is we assume shes not telling the truth. Lets give her a fair hearing because she may well be telling the truth because we know now that a lot of women have come because within nanoseconds, a new movement of why i didnt report this. Because women are saying, actually, no, mr. President , it can happen to me. That does not mean i reported it at the time. Based on what Lindsey Graham said and sort of everything we know or our knowledge of what we dont know about this, do you think theres anyway that this hearing could change the
outcome . It doesnt seem to me like senators on the republican side are open to having their minds changed particularly. I think that raises the issue of why we should be having an fbi investigation. Ive spoken to members of the fbi who said absolutely, we could investigate this. Would it be dispositive, we dont know that. But there are certainly things we could do. We could talk to judge mark judge. We could ask him those questions and go through her yearbook and his yearbook. There are things that could be done if we really wanted to get to the bottom of what happened and find out whether shes telling the truth, whether her memory serves her correctly or whether he is telling the truth and those steps are not being taken. Lets bring in democratic member of the senate Judiciary Committee, senator chris coons of delaware. Thanks for taking the time to be on the show tonight. Thank you, kasie. Lets start with the plan that late last week started to
crystallize where republicans senators dont seem to want to be doing a lot of the questioning directly themselves. They inted, want to bring in an outside counsel or have their staff do it. Its been my sources told me is because they want women asking questions of dr. Ford. Whats your take on this plan from the republican side . Kasie, i think our goal as the senate Judiciary Committee ought to be to show that weve learned something from the decades when anita hill was questioned by the yooud committee f my republicans degrees dont think they can handle the challenge of respecting dr. Ford and questioning her in an appropriate and supportive way, then perhaps they shouldnt be serving on the committee. This is the kind of role that senators shouldnt be outsourci outsourcing. If they dont like the optics of having a group of all white men on the republican side of the Judiciary Committee of grilling dr. Ford, perhaps they should reconsider their questioning
style and consider that we could have offered to dr. Ford an appropriate hearing by including an fbi background check, by inviting or compelling mark judge to testify, by bringing in the former fbi agent who administered a Lie Detector Test to dr. Ford that she passed or by calling in front of the Committee Expert witnesses on the dynamics of Sexual Assault and how it affects memory. Any of those steps would have improved the quality and the even handedness of this hearing. Instead, the republican majority rejected all of them. Have you made up your mind about who you think is telling the truth here . I have made up my mind that im voting against judge cave kna kavanaugh. I focused on president ial Power Concerns which are well outside the mainstream. I also believe dr. Ford. I think we should have a hearing where its possible for her to have a respectful opportunity to
present her allegations. But i think there are a few members of both sides, republican and democrat, where who they believe this week will make the difference in how they vote. So you do think that in the case of perhaps Susan Collins or lisa murkowski, this hearing could make a difference to the outcome of the confirmation . I do. So the wall street Journal Editorial Board put out this oped piece about what it seems to be a lack of due process afforded to kavanaugh by the democrats. The democratic standard for Sexual Assault allegations is they should be accepted as true merely for being made. The accuser is assumed to be telling the truth because the accuser is a woman. The burden is on mr. Kavanaugh to prove his innocence. If he is unable to do so, he is this turns american justice and due process upside down. We have an outspoken advocate of dr. Fords and play how she responded to the right to the Presumption Of Innocence during an interview she did this morning. Take a look. I put his denial in the
context of everything that i know about him in terms of how he approaches his cases. As i said, his credibility is already very questionable. It is so important that there be at least an investigation so theres some effort at collaboration. As far as his friend, mark judge, not even testifying, that is astounding to me. What do you think, senator coops, is the due process obligation and sort of Presumption Of Innocence standard that should be applied to judge kavanaugh in this case . Obviously, this is not actually a criminal prosecution. Right. It is important for all of us to remember in how we prepare ourselves for this session of the Judiciary Committee and how we talk about this that dr. Ford is not on trial. There are, if we have Reasonable Estimates of the number of victims of Sexual Assault in the country, there would be hundreds of thousands of victims of Sexual Assault who will be watching these hearings closely. If she is put on trial, it will discourage so many others from ever coming forward with their stories in other settings to challenge the conduct of other assault perpetrators, men or women. They are mostly perpetrated by men. I do think its important that judge kavanaugh be given a fair and reasonable opportunity to bring his side of the story forward. But frankly, what would have made this into a more fair and appropriate Confirmation Hearing was to do what we do with all nominees for a lifetime seat on a federal court, whether the Supreme Court or other court, which is to have the fbi do an expanded background investigation. Every single nominee who comes in front of the Judiciary Committee has had to clear a background check. Ill remind you, its judge kavanaugh who is seeking a lifetime appoint. Not dr. Ford who is seeking to charge him in a court of law. Frankly, the standard here is what senators find compelling
and what we ought to be considering is as broad a range of evidence and insight and advice from experts as is possible. Senator, to that point, the Washington Post reports that democratic staff have been researching the broader culture of the prep Academy World in which kavanaugh lived. Theyre reading the writings of mark judge, the kavanaugh friend who ford said was in the room. They plan to grill kavanaugh on the controversial twitter thread from ed whalen that you may have seen. Im wondering, which line of questioning do you intend to pursue in this hearing and do you think those reported ones would be fruitful . Im preparing with my team a number of different lines of questioning. You know, one of our challenges is going to be with 21 members of the Judiciary Committee. Theres lots of different potential lines of questioning and so given that im not the most senior democrat, ill have to be prepared to followup with additional questions depending on how other senators have
questioned. Im concerned about judge kavanaughs truthfulness given the ways in which he declined to answer or avoided answering a number of my direct questions. We met in my office privately first and i told him my areas of concern is jurs prudence. Then i sent him a public letter telling him what i would be questioning him on the haeearin. I questioned him in his Confirmation Hearing and i sent him written questions in a letter of followup. I felt that on several critical points in particular around his extreme view of president ial power that judge kavanaugh was not forthcoming with me and did not defend a number of his more extreme positions. Do you think he lied to you . Those exchanges . I wouldnt put it that directly in my questioning of him. Id say that he shaded or avoided answering or changed the subject or cited other jurists
to avoid having a direct conversation. I would have far preferred he directly defend his views. I think they can be defended but from a different perspective from mine and from a perspective that is outside the mainstream of american jurs prudence. Senator chris coons of delaware. Thank you. Well be watching and im sure ill be chasing you down the hallway with a microphone at some point this wake. Thank you, kasie. Jon meacham, i want to go to you. If you are a senator sitting on this committee, you have to be thinking about what youre going to do this week with an eye toward history. You know, its the margaret j. Smith principle. The republican senator from maine, Susan Collins, call your office. Very early on, within a matter of months after joe mccarthy launched his Campaign Seeking Communists in the government, stood up and gave a speech
called the declaration of conscience. Laying out exactly what the case against mccarthy would become. Only six senators joined her. Mccarthy dismissed her as snow white and the six dwarves. Yet four years later, it took the men four years to catch up shall the senate censures mccarthy on almost the same grounds that senator smith laid out. The thing i say to folks on few occasions when they ask. We ask you a lot. What do you want us its actually effective. What ill say is what do you want us to think about when we look at your oil portrait. They cant imagine a world where were not staring at their portrait. That gets through the shell. This is one that people are going to think about for a long time. Its not an appropriations vote. Its not a Passing Piece of
legislation. This is about the character of the country. Its really down to three or four senators. Thats what were talking about here. Were talking about Senator Collins and murkowski and senator corker from my state who is not facing the voters again. So what they have to do is decide, is this someone they want on the Supreme Court in light of all these circumstances . Jon meachams questions to all of you. What do you want people to look at when they see your oil painting . Weve got much more to come. Well talk about how all of this could impact our elections this year and for years to come. Plus, he havent scratched the surface of the Rod Rosenstein story which could have its own questions in the kavanaugh confirmation. As we go to break, if a picture is worth a thousand words, take a look at this one. The Associated Press caption reads, senator lisa murkowski
reacts to a question from a reporter on the subway as she responds to questions about Supreme Court nominee, Brett Kavanaugh. Clearly, doesnt want to be thinking about this. Kasie d. C. Back after this. Uh. I didnt believe it. Again. Ooh, baby, do you know what thats worth . I want to believe it. [ claps hands ] ooh im not hearing the confidence. Okay, hold the name your price tool. Power of options based on your budget and well make heaven a place on earth yeah oh, my angels ooh, heaven is a place on earth [ sobs quietly ] ooh, heaven is a place on earth you wouldnt accept from any one else. Why accept it from your Allergy Pills . Flonase relieves your worst symptoms including nasal congestion, which most pills dont. Flonase helps block 6 key inflammatory substances. Most pills only block one. Flonase. Need a change of scenery . The Kayak Price Forecast tool tells you whether to wait or book your flight now. So you can be confident youre getting the best price. Giddyup kayak. Search one and done. Past month kavanaughs support dropped significantly among women over 50. Suburban women and independents. Take a look at the striking gender gap on our new generic congressional ballot. 47 of men say they want a Republicancontrolled Congress while 44 prefer democrats in control. Women, meanwhile, favor democratic control by a 25point margin. 5833. The Washington Post reports, quote, the moment brings into sharp relief the gulf that has emerged between the two Political Parties as they navigate americas cultural reckoning on Sexual Assault. Scores of female candidates to midterm elections. By crontrast, trumps agenda an style and the fact that the gop Leadership Stands in lock step with him mostly, are undoing years of often painstaking work by Party Leaders to court more female and minority voters. Katty, kaye. This is the year of the women. Theyre mostly democratic women. Seems like women mostly on the democratic side are set to vote against this. It seems like its not irreparable damage but longterm damage. If you look at the numbers in favor of democrats over republicans amongst women, its hard to see how a party can win longterm with that kind of a gap amongst women voters. The question is still going to be, who actually turns out in november. You can have women saying that. Whether they get to the polls and the numbers we expect them to get to the polls is the question. And how many motivated by the kavanaugh hearings, by donald trump on the republican side and look at that same poll, Donald Trumps own Approval Numbers barely shifted recently. Thats going to be a Driving Factor on the republican side too. I think thats exactly right. Thats what a lot of republicans are counting on, quite honestly. That their turnout model is such that it will offset polls like
that. So that gap is a lot narrower. The private polling they show, its not 22 points or 25 points. Its actually more like 10 or 15. It depends who actually shows up. Based on who will actually show up. Theyve been dismissive for quite some time now of the sort of groundswell of movement by democratic voters. Female, independent types, center left voters. On the bet that, come november, again, those voters will not show up in the numbers. Im just not convinced of that. Whats your take, michael, on the i feel like theres been a back and forth about, if kavanaughs confirmation takes a turn for the worse this week, whether thats helpful or hurtful to the republicans in the midterm elections. Some argue that well, that will mean theres no reason to vote republican if they cant get it done. On the other hand, some are arguing thats going to animate
our base because theyll care more about this judicial appointment. If that does not get done, they will be so ticked off. To what point . I mean, if you cant get this done, if you cant stand behind this man, a guy that we want, someone on our list, et cetera, why will we then go and show up in november and give you the reins of power to do what . Theres a real potential split there with the base if that happens. Which is why you hear mcconnell going full steam ahead, were charging forward, were pushing this through. If they dont get kavanaugh through, the incentive to keep the senate is that much stronger. They just cannot afford to let the democrats win the senate because then theyre not going to get whoever else the president nominates as a conservative. Thats a good point. The Counter Argument to that Counter Argument, here it is. The democrats, if this fails this week or the next few weeks, all of a sudden the senate is in
play for them and that base vote were talking about really gets amped up and the turnout model changes. Interesting. Jon memeacham, what does histor tell us about this poll were seeing where women are abandoning the gop in large numbers . Back in 1991, we saw the first year of the woman, dianne feinstein, there was old clips this morning on the sunday shows giving a Victory Speech back then. Is this the kind of thing that has a potentially permanent impact . What are the lessons from history in your head not in mine tell us . Well, john tyler, tyler midterms were huge. Michael is good on that. And katty is upset because they lost the empire. We can talk about that later. Two things happened in the fall of 1991, that began to prefigure eight years of
democratic rule. One were the Thomas Hearings and the thomas confirmation. It wasnt just the hearings but the fact that they happened. The testimony occurred and Justice Thomas was confirmed. Thats the one. The other was the democratic race, actually i think in your native state, the senate race where Harris Wofford defeated Richard Thorn Berg in a special race and two guys werent particularly wellknown ran the race on the issue of health care. It was a surprise democratic win in pennsylvania and it should have been a big Flashing Red Light to the george h. W. Bush white house, but they didnt pay a whole lot of attention. In many ways those were two of the Pearl Harbors for republicans heading into 1992. The two midterms, if folks are really have a slow night at home and they want to go online, i think the two that are
significant here are 1966 which was a huge check on the great society. It didnt it prefigured nixon winning in 68. But the other the two things happened in that year. One is 1964 president johnson won in a massive landslide. He said that these were the most hopeful times since christ was born in bethlehem giving you a sense of how johnson saw himself. By 1966 sorry. Exactly. Hyperbole is not a new thing. The thing that happened very shortly thereafter, 24 months later, you had significant republican gains in the midterms, including the election of a fellow out in california named Ronald Reagan as governor. In 1994, though that didnt prefigure a shift in the white house in 1996, it did begin this more tribe lis particular era. The house flipped for the first time in 40 years, massive governorships. I remember the first time i
heard someone say george w. Bush was going to be president was on the night he beat ann richards, a democratic senator who said watch that space. So interesting. Jon meacham, thank you as always going back to tyler, through the 60s. Thank you. When we return, well have the latest reporting on the New York Times bombshell on Rod Rosenstein that somehow hasnt detonated yesterday. The president has been quiet. The Freedom Caucus sort of shrugged, what is going on . Well try to get to the bottom of it, next. And home insurance. So why not bundle them with esurance and save up to 10 . Which you can spend on things you really want to buy, like. Well, i dont know what youd wanna buy because im just a guy on your tv. Esurance. Its surprisingly painless. Thats confident. But its not kayak confident. Kayak searches Hundreds Of Travel and Airline Sites to find the best flights for us. So im more than confident. Kayak. Search one and done. We are the tv doctors of america, and we may not know much about medicine, but we know a lot about drama. From scandalous romance, to ridiculous plot twists. gasping son . Dad we also know you can avoid drama by getting an annual checkup. So were partnering with cigna to remind you to go see a real doctor. Go, know, and take control of your health. It could save your life. Doctor poses dad cigna. Together, all the way. Dad so why not bundle them with esurance and save up to 10 . Which you can spend on things you really want to buy, like. Well, i dont know what youd wanna buy because im just a guy on your tv. Esurance. Its surprisingly painless. Now to the fallout from the Rod Rosenstein scoop. The New York Times reports that a week after james comeys firing, Deputy Attorney general Rod Rosenstein suggested secretly recording the president in the white house. It discussed Recruiting Cabinet Members to invoke the 25th Amendment to remove the president from office. The times said of people briefed on the events or memos written by fbi officials, including andrew mccabe. The Justice Department sources tell nbc news that rosenstein was joking when he discussed wearing a wire during one of the meetings. A spokeswoman told the times the same thing. Other sources said rosenstein confirmed he was serious about the idea but also followed up by suggesting other fbi officials interviewing to be the new Director Wear A wire as well. We should point out that rosenstein has issued not one,
but two denials. The latest reads, quote, i never pursued or authorized recording the president and any suggestion that i have advocated for the removal of the president is absolutely false. Joining the conversation is New York TimesJustice Department reporter katie benner. Katie, thanks for being here. I want to start with you to make sure that we have our heads around exactly what were talking about. This is a very critical period of time it seems. Its emerging as a critical period of time inside the Justice Department. What was the context around rosensteins remarks . What was the pressure he was under . Sure. You have to think back on how chaotic the Justice Department was in those days. Jim comey was fired and rosenstein had been on the job for a couple of weeks. It was his memo about jim comey that was used as a pretext for the firing. So he was a little bit blind sided by the fact that the white house publicly said this is why were firing jim comey even though the president had other remarks to suggest that there
were other motives. He was blindsided by this. He felt used, he was new on the job and felt like something needed to be done both to deal with the comey firing, deal with the ongoing investigations of the fbi that related to trump and somehow bring order back to the Justice Department. The purpose of wearing the wire, i mean, as we said, nbc news is reporting said it was sarcastic. The times says its serious. Whats goal of wearing a wire . This is one of the open questions. We dont know exactly why he said he would do that. Presumably, it would be because he wanted to go into the white house and find proof that something was amiss. That things were not being handled well or managed well. As you can see from the Impromptu Firing of jim comey. Certainly thats not a wellmanaged situation and you have to wonder whats going on. We take a step back and look at the stories the times published on friday, we look at the book that came out, omarosas book
that came out, a book, fire and fury, every single one of these accounts from completely different people and sources all say things were not being managed well. Or maybe the wire is simply so you dont end up in james comeys shoes and its your word against the president. Amid the conflicting reports about whether rosenstein was joking when he suggested wearing a wire to record the president , we thought it might be useful to show all of you what it looks like when Rod Rosenstein tells a joke. I announced this new policy here in new york a few weeks ago, i explained that the term piling on refers to a Football Player jumping on a pile of other Football Players after the opponent is already i played football about 40 years ago. So i like that metaphor. But last night i learned that the Merriam Webster dictionary uses a different meaning. It describes piling on as joining other people in criticizing someone, usually in an unfair manner. I also have experience with
that. He does seem to stop for the punch line. So presumably others in the room would know he was intentionally making a joke. But katty kay, i found it ive been a little bit surprised by the lack of reaction so far from caucus members. In fact, if you watched any clips on fox news, theyve actually been arguing to the president that this report is all a setup, he shouldnt do anything, he shouldnt fire anybody. So far the president hasnt made a move. Its quite surprising, noticeable, the number of allies of the president s who have come out, starting with sean hannity, trey gowdy, Lindsey Graham said hold on, take a breath. This is not a good moment to think about firing rosenstein. I dont know whether its because the president is listening to sean hannity, but theres a strong feeling amongst conservatives this would not be a good move heading into the
midterms. For them to go through this process. The cynic in me cant help i like the cynical version. Cant help but think this is all part of an ongoing strategy, not really knowing all the backgrounding on the sources for the times, but i find it curious that this narrative pops up now. The way it pops up. And there is, as everyone in this town pretty much knows, efforts being put in place right now to fire Rod Rosenstein along with several others once this election is over. Ideally after. We know youre chomping at the bit, but like pull back a little bit. Put that tweet in the scheduled file. Wait until the 10th Or 11th Of November and then you can have at it. They still dont get that even that action after the election is going to be a big problem for republicans on the hill and for
the president. But this is the strategy. To be fair to the times, reporters have been working on this story for more than a year. Even though the timing might seem strange right now, its not that we were just given a file of incriminating information on Rod Rosenstein six weeks before the election. Of course. Katie benner, thank you so much. Well be following your reporting and your colleagues. Michael steele, katty kay thanks for being here. The last time the Supreme Court was former senator max baucus was there for the Clarence Thomas vote and he talks about how that chapter wo could play out again. To worry about homeowners insurance. Could play out again. Feeling better . I love you, pookie bear. [parrot 1] i love you, pookie bear. [parrot 2] i love you, pookie bear [parrots] i love you, pookie bear
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that anything happened. But the differences are important, too. Hill and thomas were both adults at the time of the alleged misconduct. Dr. Ford claims she was assaulted by kavanaugh in high school. Fords accusations allege a physical assault. Hills involved repeated harassment over a number of years. It was also a different era. Hill leveled her allegations at a time when there were no women on the senate Judiciary Committee and only two women in the entire senate. While dr. Ford has come ford at the height of the me too movement. With all of that in mind, lets take a look at this today show piece that aired on the eve of anita hills appearance on capitol hill. Protected by airport and life has clearly changed for anita hill. Law professor from norman, oklahoma, has been under enormous attention ever since she charged judge thomas with sexual harassment. Friday morning she goes, as does in effect judge thomas, on trial. Who is telling the truth . I dont think anyone wants to harm miss hill. There are a lot of inconsistencies in her statement, in her various statements and a lot of things that could be played out. But i think most of us feel sorry for her. I think shes been badly used. Joining me now is former democratic senator max baucus of montana. He served in the senate during the confirmation of justice Clarence Thomas. Senator baucus, great to see you again. Thanks for being on the show tonight. I think i want to start. You bet. By asking you what do you remember about that time . What was it like to be in the halls of the senate . What were the conversations like . Democrats actually controlled the chamber at the time and frankly, what ultimately happened didnt really age very well. No, it didnt. It was very awkward, obviously, and just very difficult. Anita hill made very credible charges. Shes quite sympathetic and of course, judge thomas was outrageous in his outraged, maybe outrageous too in his responses. Very uncomfortable. What really strikes me now with the similarities with todays hearing with judge kavanaugh, if the hearing is scheduled on thursday, well have to remember that this is not a court of law. There are virtually no rules. Senators both sides of the aisle can ask any questions they want to ask virtually. Some have agendas. Some want to be president. There will be a huge temptation on the part of some senators to drama advertise. They know, too, that they can go so far before they cross that line. I do think that most senators will comport themselves quite well, because this is such a serious matter. Having said that, unless theres some Dramatic New Development which we cannot now anticipate,
i think youll find owl democrats voting against kavanaugh and all republicans voting for him on the committee. To pick up on that point about people running for president , i cant help but think of some of the democrats on that committee, cory booker, Camilla Harris who both had moments in the original hearing as well. What would you urge them not to do in this hearing . Well, i urge them first to be very judicious, very fair because theyll be watched so closely. They should not try to grandstand. They should not try to show how smart they are or show that theyre great crossexaminers of judge kavanaugh. They should be fair and ask good questions and fair questions. Senator, this is something to go back to the anita hill comparison and your time then. Theres been conversations about joe biden who was the chairman of the committee at the time, who is now openly mulling another bid for president in
2020. It said that this is something that he regrets and certainly something that might be difficult for him to grapple with if he were to launch a bid. How do you think he should approach the potential potentia and focus on what he did during the anita hill years if he does get back in the arena . Well, i think hes needing to apologize to anita hill because he didnt let witnesses appear. Understand hes made a general apology but not apologized to her personally. I think he needs to do that if he wants to be president , he probably should anyway. Senator, what would you advice be to male senators who are going to be questioning dr. Blasey ford on the republican or democratic side . Remember that you dont know how these experiences, as many
women have faced are bottled up and they dont come forward. Its just natural for women not to come forward subjected to such a horrific experience like the one alleged here and men have to understand that. I think very few men do understand that. But they should, those on the committee when asking questions of kavanaugh or of dr. Ford, but just be fair. Were here to get them the truth. Did this incident occur or did it not occur . One of the two is not telling the truth and real effort here to try to determine in a fair judicious way who is and isnt telling the truth. Senator max baucus, thanks for that. Well talk to an attorney who helped get gorsuch and kavanaugh into the Circuit Court jobs. He joins us just ahead. Course,. Fridge, weather. Clear skies and 75. Trash can, turn on the tv. My pleasure. Ice dispenser, find me a dog sitter. Okay. And make ice. Pizza delivered. Whats happened to my son . I think thats just what people are like now. I mean, with progressive, you can quote your insurance on just about any device. Even on social media. Hell be fine. [ laughs ] will he . I dont know. Will he . As moms, we send our kids out into the world, full of hope. And we dont want Something Like meningitis b getting in their way. Meningococcal group b disease, or meningitis b, is real. Bexsero is a vaccine to help prevent meningitis b in 1025 year olds. Even if meningitis b is uncommon, thats not a chance were willing to take. Meningitis b is different from the meningitis most teens were probably vaccinated against when younger. Were getting the word out against meningitis b. Our teens are getting bexsero. Bexsero should not be given if you had a severe allergic reaction after a previous dose. Most common side effects are pain, redness or hardness at the injection site; muscle pain; fatigue; headache; nausea; and joint pain. Bexsero may not protect all individuals. Tell your healthcare professional if youre pregnant or if you have received any other meningitis b vaccines. Ask your healthcare professional about the risks and benefits of bexsero and if vaccination with bexsero is right for your teen. Moms, we cant wait. No matter when you retire, your income doesnt have to. See how lincoln can help ensure you still have income every month of your retirement, guaranteed, at lincolnfinancial. Com. Believe it or not, its been nearly a year since we came on the air here at kasie dc and the show evolved a lot. If you and your dogs and various other pets are unavailable to be here every sunday starting after
tonights broadcast, well put out a pod cast with highlights. You can listen to the best of the panels with news makers by subscribing on itunes and places you get your podcasts now. Listen to them sundays, if you miss the show or mondays. Any time is great. Kasie dc in podcast form. When we continue we are joined by guests but first, kasie dvr. Our producers watch the shows so you dont have to. Well be right back. So you can be confident youre getting the right flight at the best price. Cheers kayak. Search one and done. Im begging you. Take gasx. Ed beneath the duvet your tossing and turning isnt restlessness, its gas gasx relieves pressure, bloating and discomfort. Fast so we can all sleep easier tonight. Need a change of scenery . The Kayak Price Forecast tool tells you whether to wait or book your flight now. So you can be confident youre getting the best price. Giddyup kayak. Search one and done