Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20160127

Paid for this mike, mr. Green. Big moment. Of course it was mr. Breen. And when you look at teddy white or anybody else, they say thats the defining moment of the primary campaign for Ronald Reagan. It showed strength in a time of weakness. And here we are how many years later . 45 years later . Wow. Do you believe that . It makes me feel old because i am 35 years old. We were just talking about feeling old, me and Mike Barnicle. The same thing happens except its happening at fox news in the final week. Its getting ugly. And trump says im not going to a debate where the rules arent fair. We have somebody openly hostile against me, actually got a cover photo on vanity fair simply because of hostility about me, gets Michael Moore on fox news to side with me. There are a lot of people at fox news going are you kidding me . So donald trump, just like Ronald Reagan front page of the New York Times. Just said you know what . Thats fine. Every paper. Look at this. I dont understand the provocation by fox news yesterday. The statement. It was just we should just go there. They were trolling and they were tweak ago guy that brings 22 Million Viewers to their network. Ronald reagan several years ago said i paid for this mike. Donald trump says i pay for your bills with my 22 Million Viewers. I think thats roger ailes whos equally strong to donald trump trying to call trumps bluff and saying youre really not going to show up at this thing . You dont do that . Fox does that. If you look at the history statement of statements they put out, theyre not afraid of anyone. But remember what happened last time, though . The same thing happened after the debate, he said im not going back on fox news and roger started calling him and said lets work this out. Guess what . All the news reports last night, they were frantically calling trump. Calling ivanka, they called melania to beg him to come back to the debate. We know where this ends. Who put out that statement and why . First of all, the Statement Issued by fox yesterday and evening were highly unusual for a News Organization. Not for fox, though. Not for fox. Youre right, this is roger versus donald, manaamano. And youre right again. This isnt over. This isnt over. So you saw Mike Barnicle is with us. In des moines, iowa, we have the managing editor of bloomberg blix, Mark Halperin. In washington, we have associate editor of the Washington Post, msnbc political analyst eugene robinson. Hey, gene, they just stuck an extra jolt of electricity in godzilla. He just grew 400 feet. This is right in his wheel house. They just they seriously it this is the fattest fastball down the middle for donald trump. Oh, wait, you ridicule me and mock me so you give me a chance to look strong and i get to hold a separate event that outrates your debate. And raises money for veterans. And raises money for veterans and im at the center of the political world and stage and im the good guy and nobodys watching your debate. Why . I dont understand. I had a very prominent, very sophisticated elected official call me early yesterday evening talking about trump and what had happened and what had ensued during the day and saying, you know, this is going to hurt him, this is really going to hurt him. Oh, god, no. Since john mccain, since he made the statement about john mccain weve been wrong. Short hand facts here. Donald trump brwith w drew from the seventh republican president ial debate. He argued with fox news about whether or not megyn kelly should be a moderatorment he said she has been unfair to him. He tweeted a poll asking this Instagram Video about whether or not he should participate. Megyn kelly is biased against me. She knows that, i know that, Everybody Knows that. Do you think she can be fair at a debate . Its a really fair question, by the way. A really fair question considering her performance in the last debate. So fox replied with a sarcastic statement. This is what the guys were talking about here. Heres the statement. We learned a secret back channel that the ayatollah and putin both intend to treat donald trump unfairly when they meet with him if he becomes president. Trump has his own secret plan to replace the cabinet with his twitter followers to see if he should even go to those meetings. Like, why . The thing is, the question is why, first of all, a News Organization that is going to run a debate provoking a candidate like that is just asking for it. Fascinating. And i will tell you, i would literally go to the center of sixth avenue and set myself on fire [ laughter ] stop its, joe set myself on fire before i stood on a debate stage with any News Organization that did that statement. That did that. I would tell them to go to hell faster than donald trump. I have a ton of friends at fox, i love fox and i know a lot of people at fox are twisted up at about how this has gone down and megyn kelly has somehow taken over the network. Well, they provoked him. They had to know. So trump had a response. Take a look. With me theyre dealing with somebody thats a little bit different. They cant toy with me like they toy with everybody else. So let them have their debate and lets see how they do with the ratings and i told them, i said give money to the Wounded Warriors, give money to the veterans. Theyll make a fortune with the debate. Lets see how many people watch. When they sent out the wise guy press releases a little while ago done by some pr person along with roger ailes i said byebye. Okay . Ive done six debates. Ive done six. According to every single poll ive won every single debate. Ive done six of them. And now you say when does it stop . How many debates do you have to do . The republicans go on forever and ever and ever with debates. We have people on the stand that have zero, that have one, that have nothing. So its time that somebody plays grownup and then when i see a press release written by a child like i just saw, i said what do i have to do . What do i have to make fox rich . Let me make the Wounded Warriors rich. Let me make the veterans rich. You do sit there and you watch donald trump i tweeted out immediately after this because, of course, everybody on the right, the right establishment was going oh, this is going to be the end of donald trump and, oh, hes a baby. Again. Donalds scared, donalds ducking. Its the most controlled hes been in a press conference. He looks like the grownup and hes exactly right. People are going, wait, i want to see 12 people at stage at 1 or 2 with moderators that werent fair last time . This is pretty simple. And theres been six debates, i think. And its pretty simple. All hes saying is you know, ive got somebody thats been hostile against me now for six months. It doesnt make a lot of sense. Joining us by phone we have Donald Trumps Campaign Manager corey line dough ski. Corey, good morning. Good morning. Any chance he will do this debate in any way, shape, or form . Any way to turn this around . I dont think so. What you have with mr. Trump is a clear leader, a person who he said it best is not going to be toyed with. A person who understands when a bad deal is in front of him and is ready to walk away from a bad deal, something this country should be able to do. I dont see any way where fox is going to have a successful debate now when you have the clear gop frontrunner who decided to walk away from this debate because he cant be treated fairly on the bebait stage and a network thats going to make news not about asking candidates about policy issues but about personal attacks. Maybe fox is going tv 2520 or 2 million person debate, without mr. Trump they may have a one or two million person debate. What was donalds reaction when he got the press release. Did he know from the moment he got the goading press release . It was more like trolling of trump, that he was not going to do the event . I think it was very clear. Its very hard to appear with someone, a network, which is going to be as biassed as they have been against him. As soon as they put that press release out it was clearly a statement which, you know, they did it just to get his attention. This is something fox wanted to do to increase their ratings as it related to more people watching this debate and, you know, it just doesnt make sense. What we know is that megaagayn y is obsessed with mr. Trump, shes done show after show about why the media shouldnt be having him on television. Donald trump is the best debater on the debate stage. Hes a clear winner. He has been by every debate thats taken place. Hes not afraid to debate and i want to be clear about this. Hes done more television, more radio than all of the other candidates combined. Hes not afraid to answer questions. Hes on your show all the time. The bottom line is you have people who arent going to be fair and ask questions the American People want to talk about and instead they want to make this about themselves and thats what this is about and its a shame. So now ted cruz wants to bolt the debate and wants to manoamano. Cruz against trump. What does trump say to that . Hes not the only one. Weve had calls from many candidates who say, look, why would we participate in the fox debate as well . Once again you have candidates reacting to the only true leader in this race which is donald trump. He leads and suddenly everyone realizes that, may, maybe it as not the best idea to be involved, maybe we should leave as well. So i had a number of calls with other campaigns who said, hey, can we join you in raising money for the veterans because, you know, fox wont be fair to you, what makes them think theyll be fair to us . Do you think youll have more candidates possibly bolting and helping raise money for the Wounded Warriors instead of going to the fox debate . Its very possible. Obviously they have to do what they think is best for their campaign bus they reached out to us proactively asking if they can be part of our event which we deal thursday night in des moines so well see what happens. Corey, in the last 12, 4 hou 14 hours, have you heard from fox . Roger ailes or anyone to you specifically oar member of donalds family to get you back on track. I dont want to get into internal discussions but i can tell you there was issues raised earlier about my conversations with some fox executives. I think what they want to be is very dishonest, unfortunately, and its a shame because when you have a conversation with some of the fox executives, you hope theyd keep that conversation private. Instead you have executives over there who have relatives working for other campaigns. These are people putting debate questions together and instead of having those conversations and making sure the debate is going to be fair, they do things like troll mr. Trump and put out statement which is arent very helpful when youre trying to have an open and honest dialogue on the debate stage. Corey, its willie, thanks for calling in this morning. I want to ask you, i dont think this hurts you in any way, i think thats preposterous that weve learned over the month that the things you do that are unconventional havent hurt you. One of the things people have said overnight is what is it about megyn kelly that rattles Donald Trumps cage unlike any else . He goes on any show hes asked to go on, stays on for half an hour but theres something about her he cant get past. Why is he afraid to stand on a stage, even if he thinks shell be unfair and go head to head with her. Do you think hed prevail . This is not about megyn kelly. This is about fox news making tens of millions of dollars on the debates and setting records, the highest ever of Cable Television unlike previous years and unlike the very stupid and highly incompetent people that run our country, mr. Trump knows when to walk away from a bad deal. Its roger ailes, its fox news, they think they can toy with mr. Trump. Mr. Trump doesnt play games, you know that. Hes been to six debates. He stood on the stage with megyn kelly, answered every question from every debate moderator who posed a question to him. Hes won every debate. This isnt about megyn kelly. This is about giving the American People the opportunity to ask questions, to hear from the candidates directly from a fair manner and what we saw we have been the cnbc debate is when the moderators want to be the story and not let the candidate answer or have the opportunity to answer questions or that the American People care about, theres ramifications to that. Theres repercussions to that. Wow. We saw cnbc did that and guess what happened . The rnc removed nbc from a future debate because of it. This shouldnt be about the moderators, this should be about the candidates. I was just going to say, this is unprecedented in the election season. The rnc did not like how cnbc conducted their debate and unfortunately we all paid for it here. Corey, i want to ask you a couple more things because when you talk about fox news, people think youre talking about this one gigantic organization. I want to start with megyn kelly. What was trumps reaction and what was your reaction to megyn kelly having Michael Moore on to agree with her about how bad donald trump was. It wasnt just Michael Moore. Cheri jacobus was on wanted to talk about donald trump. This is the same person who came to the office on multiple occasions trying to get a job from the Trump Campaign and when she wasnt hired she was clearly upset by that. They go out of their way at fox to put left wing liberals on to make their own points because they cant find conservatives to go it or they find people who want to attack mr. Trump personal lift i dont think traditional viewership of fox which leans more conservative is as concerned about what Michael Moores positions are but they choose to put him on to be as derogatory and demeaning as possible to mr. Trump. It shows what the Networks Real thoughts are on the campaign. While shes putting Michael Moore on with her, you do admit that sean hannity has been a friend and ally of trump. That oreilly has been fair, even though its been spirited. Bill oreilly has been fair. Most anchors over there actually have been fair to donald trump, right . Well, i think what you have with sean and what you have with with bill are quality individuals who want to ask tough questions in a fair and reasonable manner. I dont think anybodys going to say that bill oreilly is an easy interview because hes not. But donald trump has stood in front of bill oreilly and interviewed with him dozens of occasions, answered every question that bill has because theyre asked in a respectful manner and thats all people can ask for you approach in the a respectful manner. Mr. Trump can answer any question. Hes running for president of the United States. Hes done it time and time again. But what theyre doing with megyn kelly and moreover roger ailes with the statement they put out goading mr. Trump, its clearly fox thought it was appropriate to mock mr. Trump but at the end of the day, you know, mr. Trump will have the last laugh. All right, thank you so much for being with us, corey, greatly appreciate it. It brings up a great point. Bill oreilly and donald trump have tough exchanges back and forth. Its not a problem with tough exchanges, its fairness. Let me read this quickly with megyn kelly. Gabe sherman in new York Magazine took on the trump controversy as well. He writes one clear sign of the gravity of tonights developments is the sense of confusion swirling through fox. The network is split between kellys allies like brit hume and conservative anchors who are furious at kelly who graces the cover of vanity fir that month has become the face of the network. An anchor fumed that kelly hosted Michael Moore on the program tonight and the lefty filmmaker defended against trump. And whether its hannity or a dozen others over there, mika, this is basically megyn kelly against megyn kelly and whoever is standing next to her against what the rest of the network wants to do. Except the networks taken her side very publicly, as they should. The Networks Executives have. But still, though, do you pass up on the most important debate just to prove a point about one anchor . Do you let one anchor hold an entire network i dont know what word i would use there hold up an entire network from a guy who is not ahead by two points, hes ahead by 20, 30 points. Hes probably going to be the frontrunner and when you know that fox newss viewers tend to trend older and white and male and Donald Trumps most ardent supporters are older and white and male, is one anchor worth splitting the networks audience right down the middle . Well, ive always admired the way roger ailes sticks up for his people ill say that, and i think thats what he was doing in this case. I think the calculation is that donald trump is going to show up and well call his bluff. They may have miscalculated this time, though. We have other headlines to get to. Theres news breaking overnight, one person is dead, eight others facing federal charges after authorities raided a group of armed protesters who took over government land. After more than three weeks of occupying a wildlife refuge in oregon, ammon bundy, the leader of the occupation, and seven others, are behind bars. During the arrest, Oregon State Police say shots were fired. Arizona robert lavoy was killed. His daughter confirmed his death to nbc news last night. For more now, lets bring in joe friar live in los angeles. What do you know . Reporter authorities decided it was time to make an arrest. This played out not at the wildlife refuge but on a rural highway about 50 miles away. Some members of the Antigovernment Group were driving to a Community Meeting when they were stopped by fbi agents and Oregon State Police. While the arrests were being made, authorities simply say there were shots fired. They would not elaborate on who fired the shots or how the situation played out, but in the end as you mentioned, one of the occupiers was killed. Lavoy finicum, hes an arizona rancher who became a spokesman for the group. We actually spoke with him a few days after the occupation began. Lets take a listen if they come here and try to arrest you, point a gun at you, fry to put cuffs on you, how far are you willing to take this . Well, dont a point at me. You dont point a gun at somebody unless youre going to shoot them. Thats the first thought, dont point guns at people. So im telling them right now, dont point guns at me. So youre prepared to die . Better dead than in a cell . Absolutely. Would you like to be in a cell . Nobody wants to live their live their life in a cell. Eight others are arrested. They face felony federal charges and the occupation is not over. Some still do remain at the wildlife refuge. Its unclear how many or if theyll be arrested any time soon. Back to you. Joe fryer, thank you. Also this morning, the nfl has confirmed its conducting a comprehensive investigation surrounding allegations against peyton manning. Those allegations were made in an al Jazeera Documentary and alleged that manning had human growth hormones delivered to his home. Theres no direct evidence linking manning to the banned substance. Hes denies using peds and called the report complete garbage. You know, willie, just think about it, without the hgh he could only throw the ball six yards instead 1206. Peyton manning got a bad batch of hdh, flutter ball. God bless him. Stop it. No, seriously, he needs to get a refund because i was out i swear to god, i was out throwing the football with zach yesterday. You were . I was, sevenyearold, sevenyearold. Has a better, tighter spiral, my sevenyearold boy, and can throw it further than peyton manning. Hes one of the greatest taut but those flutter balls are hard to watch. And 12 yards tops. I mean, seriously. H hgh . For what . Imagine the trouble he would be in fif the footballs were deflated a bit . Weve got more football news that well get to. This exgiant. Thats tough. Tyler sash, 27 years old, advanced stage of cte. Isnt this 27. What is going on . The game has to change. This is sorry. Its coming from a mom. But i wouldnt want my child to play football. This happening to 27yearolds now because its getting faster. Every year, expotential. And speaking of hgh and performanceenhancing drugs, the nfl has to stop it. I will watch 300 pound guys that cant run a 440 play football. Let the 300 pound guys run a five 240. I will still watch. Get rid of helmets. Get rid of the performanceenhancing drugs. Test them before every sunday game, after every sunday game and in the middle of the week stop it, youre killing these young men, many of whom have no they dont have the choice of my kids. I can go my kids arent going play football and theyll have a job. A lot of kids dont have that choice. They see it as their way out. And its a wonderful sport. The strategy involved and the strength involved. I love football. They have to address this. Test them for performanceenhancing drugs. You are killing among other things. Killing them. Finally this morning, actor abe vigoda has passed away. Hes perhaps against known for his roles as sal tessio in the godfather and detective fish on the sitcom barney miller. A role that earned him his own spinoff. He died peacefully in his sleep at the age of 94. There was a rumor he died i guess the New York Times put in the in 82 . Early 80s and it continued. He went with it. It continued for years until yesterday they said now he is dead. I think it was from the early 80s. He was always in on that joke. He had a great time with it. So Bernie Sanders yesterday were going to do this next. Two events. He has 20,000 people at the two events. Unbelievable. How does that happen . In a tuesday night du electrocu duluth. He has a meeting with the president well get to this next. Still ahead on morning joe, another giant crowd for Bernie Sanders just days ahead of the iowa caucuses. Plus well talk to senator ben sass whos so opposed to donald trump that hes traveling with both ted cruz and marco rubio. Hes not on donalds short list. Plus, well go live to iowa for complete coverage of the rapidly approaching caucuses. Hallie jackson is tracking the gop side while kasie hunt has the democrats covered. On monday and tuesday, the tradition continues, morning joe takes the show on the road back to java joes in des moines, iowa. Youre watching morning joe. Willie extra diggs, unlike any other. Well be right back. In the past year or so, soda manufacturers have scored a big hit by adding lime to their products. Theres coke with lime, pepsi with lime, many more. Our next character is the latest variation on soda with lime. Heres vigoda with lime. Vigoda with lime, vigoda with lime tvs fish is now more delish with a tangy twist of lime the future belongs to the fast. And to help you accelerate, weve created a new company. One totally focused on whats next for your business. The True Partnership where people,technology and ideas push everyone forward. Accelerating innovation. Accelerating transformation. Accelerating next. Hewlett packard enterprise. In the country have in common . Many of them now call Cancer Treatment centers of america home. Expert medicine works here. Find out why at cancer center. Com. Cancer Treatment Centers of america. Were going to have six robust debates and as we always do, there will be organizations that sponsor forums. Our candidates will have plenty of opportunity to showcase their view points, draw contrasts between one anothers and the stsix dnc debates will give voters to see what our candidates are all about. We will have six debates and theres many opportunities for candidates to be seen in candidate forums. Our initial focus in the early primary states is on making sure that retail politics can be robust. And every time a candidate has to engage and get ready for a debate they have to come off the trail and that means that they are going to not get as much of an opportunity from the voters to be seen up close and personal. I am very confident and comfortable with the way we have scheduled our debate as well as adding candidate forums, giving candidates an opportunity to get up close and personal. After months of unrest, the New Hampshire union leader announced theyll partner with msnbc and host an additional debate on february 4, five days before the New Hampshire primary. Now, the dnc has said it would exclude any candidates that participate in unsanctioned debates from any future sanctioned debate. So now the question is will the candidates show up . In a Statement Released yesterday, dnc chair Debbie Wasserman schultz said we have no plan to sanction any debates before the upcoming first in the nation primary but we will reconvene with our campaigns after those two contests to review the schedules. The candidates appear to be at odds. Bernie sanders said the dean see said this would not be a sanctioned debate and we do not want to jeopardize our ability to participate in future debate. Hillary clinton said she would be happy to participate if the dnc would agree Martin Omalley says he plans to attend calling the proposal a victory for voters across New Hampshire and the United States. Mike . They tried to rig it for hillary, its not looking good for hillary. Suddenly youve got these things falling out of the sky, these debates falling out of the sky like you know. The debate schedule has been a disgrace to the process. Scheduling the debates a president start of the super bowl or sunday nights at 11 00. A disgrace to the process. The idea of one more debate, i would imagine, would it be Hillary Clinton and Martin Omalley would jump right in. Bernie sanders, i dont know why he would not jump in. Hes got nothing to lose in New Hampshire, nothing at all. So Bernie Sanders is scheduled to meet with president obama in the oval office this morning. Its their only second private meeting in seven years of the obama white house. Last night, he was in st. Paul, minnesota, where a crowd wow. Of more than 14,000 people turned out to watch him speak. About a third of them watched from a monitor in an overflow area. Just lets look at that crowd for a second and listen. [ cheers and applause ] that event came just hours after some 6,000 people gathered at a rally in nearby duluth. In all, two Campaign Stops and more than 20,000 people. No president not Bernie Sanders or anyone else can effectively address the crises facing our country unless there is a political revolution. [ cheers and applause ] if we stand up, if we fight back, yeah, we can take on, we can defeat the billionaire class. That is what this campaign is about. Thank you all very much. [ cheers and applause ] Hillary Clinton, at one event she drew 450 people in iowa. Shes telling attendees shes offering more than tag lines. I do put my plans on my web site and i do tell you how much it will cost because i do want you to know that im not just shouting slogans, im not just engaging in rhetoric, ive thought this through, i have a plan, i want you to understand it because i dont think you can get what we need done in this election or in the presidency unless you level with people, you tell them what you can do and you let them then respond to it. So 14,000, mike, to 450. Not only 14,000. Bernie sanders crowds are two, three, and four times larger than Barack Obamas crowds were in iowa in 2008 and those were huge crowds. Its stunning. The fair question, when you look at that crowd whoa, look at that, hold, hold, hold. Look at that. Just freeze. That reminds me of the trump shot from pensacola, florida. Willie, like you said, other than when you wrote your first book, i have not seen crowds like that on a tuesday night when its like zero outside in minneso minnesota. That is unbelievable. The other thing you notice about his crowds is how young they are. Well, that could be a problem. Thats a good point. We still have Mark Halperin with us. Mark, i was watching your show last night, as i always do, with all due respect, and some discussion was, yes, hes neck in neck with Hillary Clinton, but are his voters, is his core support too concentrated . Without getting too deep in the weeds about how the caucus process works, he has College Towns locked down. Are they going to show up at the polls . Or is it too many people in one place in one precinct and he wins those precincts and Hillary Clinton cleans up around the rest of the state . How do you see that shaking out, mark . His campaign has been aware of that from the beginning and theyre trying to get College Students to not caucus in the three main College Towns in this state now go home to caucus to spread the support around, to take advantage of the caucus rules. I find his supporters to be at those events for all the right reasons. The reason you want someone to come to your event if youre Bernie Sanders is you believe in his agenda, you want to see his vision of america enacted. So i believe theyve got the mechanics in place in iowa to turn people out and i believe a High Percentage of his supporters, even Younger Voters, first time caucus attendee, will turn out but they have to get the mechanics right to get the support spread around the state. So let me ask you. When i look at that young crowd and im reminded of howard deans young crowds in 2004 with the orange caps, were looking at two different crowds. Well, i think youre looking at three different things. One is howard deans message is not as clear as Bernie Sanders. He had a message of the democratic wing of the Democratic Party but he was conservative on fiscal responsibility. The mechanics of this campaign are much more rigorous than the Dean Campaign was. And the last thing is this is a two person race. Howard dean is running in a multicandidate field. There are lots of other places for people to go if they dont like the establishment choice. In this case its clinton or if you dont like the accompliestat its sanders. We need buzzers like on jeopardy. Were sitting here nonstop, all this news, then we have gene, and we need to get to you guys after this break because alex is yelling we need to go to break. I want to talk to you about the amazing developments between trump and fox and what corey said today and get your input on that. Okay. Up next, the u. S. Senate reopens for Business Today but for a moment yesterday it was under new management and things felt very different. Im confused. Well explain when morning joe comes right back. Jake reese, day to feel alive jake reese, day to feel alive when agerelated macular have degeneration, amd we came up with a plan to help reduce my risk of progression. And everywhere i look. Im reminded to stick to my plan. Including Preservision Areds 2. My doctor said Preservision Areds 2 has the exact nutrient formula that the National Eye Institute recommends to help reduce the risk of progression of moderate to advanced amd. After 15 years of clinical studies. Preservision areds 2. Because my eyes are everything. The access informationlows us to from anywhere. The microsoft cloud allows us to scale up. Microsoft cloud changes our world dramatically. It wasnt too long ago it would take two weeks to sequence and analyze a genome. Now, we can do a hundred per day. With the microsoft cloud we dont have to build server rooms. We have instant scale. The microsoft cloud is helping us to rebuild and reinterpret our business. This cloud helps transform business. This is the microsoft cloud. Thats why i switched from uverse to xfinity. Now i can download my dvr recordings and take them anywhere. Ready or not, here i come whispers now hideandseek time can also be catchuponmyshows time. Here i come cant find you anywhere dont settle for uverse. X1 from xfinity will change the way you experience tv. As we convene this morning, you look around the chamber and the presiding officer is female. All of our parliamentarians are female. Our floor managers are female. All of our pages are female. Something is genuinely different and i think its genuinely fabulous. That was senator lisa murkowski. Its because all the dudes were at home because there was snow on the ground. Heres the thing, i dont think its a good thing. Im serious, its wonderful, what she was trying to say. But the point is men dont show up when they dont feel like it and nothing happens. All the women, we show up. Were early, were there when theres snow. It doesnt feel good. With exceptions. Get to work, guys. Get to work. Were here. No. So Mark Halperin, let me ask you. You sat patiently for three and a half hours listening to us talk about donald trump. I know you have to go on your show in about five minutes but whats your take on trump and fox . Look, like you guys and willie said im a student of the fox provocative statements over the years. I cant imagine a News Organization hosting a debate gratuitously insulting one of the people they want to have participate. They should let their work speak for itself. The candidates can decide whether they want to come but i think they made a big mistake journalistically and tactically putting out that statement. I think donald trump is totally entitled to say im not going to be in a debate where people are going to fight with me. I think hell dominate the news for three days. I think hes ahead in iowa right now and ted cruz will have to figure out if the negative Television Ads and taunting of trump is enough to win this caucus. Trump is on precipice of winning iowa and New Hampshire unless something changes. Hes showing strength doing this and thats his brand. Thats the deal. Hes on precipice of potentially, joe, using this to raise just as much money as the network would have made having him for Wounded Warriors, which would make a huge story. Raise it for Wounded Warriors and really the provocation here, and, you know, ill just say it, donald was a coward for not wanting to confront megyn kelly. Theres no way any News Organization that ron foreignier worked for would taunt a candidate and troll a candidate and expect that candidate to show up. Gene robinson, the Washington Post would never do that. I would turn to people telling me to go to that debate, say i would rather lose, i would rather set myself on fire i would rather jump off a cliff or in trumps case, raise money for Wounded Warriors. Trump feels the same way. He would rather lose this election than be taunted by a News Organization thats claiming theyre going to be fair. Which is just ridiculous on its face. I dont know of another News Organization that would put out a Statement Like that and i think trump theres genuine he was genuinely affronted, perhaps, but he also saw an opportunity. He is dominating the news cycle. The story is all about donald trump. He by not going the debate denies ted cruz the opportunity for manoamano on the debate stage which is the way people would have looked at it a few days before iowa so i see no down side in this for trump and well see what foxs ratings are and how its reputation comes out. I think roger ailes is in kind of an awkward position of feeling he has to defend his anchor but at the same time that was an illadvised statement. Mike, ten years from now there will be truthers here that actually believe that roger ailes and donald trump planned this. Maybe they planned this. Donald trump could not have planned anything that played to his favor more than what has happened over the past 12 hours. Probably not 10 years, probably 10 minutes from now because if you go to a donald trump rally and talk to his core constituency, you get three things. Why do you like him . Hes strong, hes independent, he doesnt need anybody. Fox just played right into each one of those issues. Yeah. Again, i dont think theres any way to look at this as a bad thing for trump in terms of this race, as Mark Halperin said. He becomes the story for a couple more days and whatever he does thursday night will swamp whats happening on that stage in terms of Media Coverage. Ill leave one opening here. I grew up in the 80s as a student of professional wrestling and i know how you build up to a big fight and theres trash talk and they wont show up. And then theres a rapprochement. That would be boring. Part of trumps demand of fox is that they get megyn kelly off the stage. That wont happen. And shes on the stage, he loses. And that they write a big check to Wounded Warriors. That will be interesting. The Wounded Warriors will get money whether he does the vent or not. Coming up, Vladimir Putin has a starring role in a Hillary Clinton campaign ad under the title hostile leader. The republicans are equally tough on putin with the exception of donald trump. Well talk to the pentagon former top russia expert about what the the next president must do about putin. Morning joe is coming right back. Does the smell of a freshly bound presentation fill you with optimism . Do you love your wireless keyboard more than certain family members . Is your success due to a filing system only you understand . Does printing from your tablet to your wireless printer give you a jolt of confidence . If so, you may be gearcentric. Someone who knows that the right office gear helps you do great things. And theres one place that has it all. Office depot officemax. Gear up for great. Yothats lactaid®. K right. 100 real milk, just without the lactose. So, no discomfort . Exactly. Try some. Mmm, it is real milk. Lactaid®. 100 real milk. No discomfort. Now mother, we are settlers. O directv . Ive settled for cable all my life. But directv has been number one in Customer Satisfaction over cable for 15 years. We find our satisfaction elsewhere. The boy has his stick and hoop. The girl her faceless doll. And you have your cabbages. And you. Have your foot stomping. I sure do. vo dont be a settler. Get rid of cable and upgrade to directv. Call 1800directv. One. Is all it takes. To turn the tables. Crest 3d white toothpaste. Removes 5 times more stains. Than the red box. For a smile like that, crest 3d white. Is the way to whiten. 49 past the hour. Joining us, former assistant secretary of defense for russia, ukraine and the pentagon, dr. Evelyn farkus, i feel like your head must be spinning because in the course of how long youre having lunch with each of my brothers, the democrats and the republicans. And were talking how do we deter russia with one brother and the other how do we cooperate with n the arctic with the other. I feel sorry for you. How does the next president deal with putin. We have to deter. We need to counter putin. We need to work on shoring up our allies and partners. So maintain a tough stance but also like i said do positive things, diplomatically, economically, militarily, and then get the truth out there. We need to do more truthtelling international linchts abo internationally. About him . About him. Russias Foreign Policy and why its a danger to the International Community and the United States. Whats the truth, dr. Farkas, about the way Vladimir Putin views the United States . Should the what posture should a president look at Vladimir Putin with . We need to be really, realistic and pragmatic and i think this president , president obama, has been pragmatic and realistic about putin. He suffers no illusions about the guy. Putin does not see america as his friend or ally, he sees us as a potential adversary or opponent, he has a competitive relationship with us because in his view in order to show, in order to demonstrate russia is a global power he needs to demonstrate he can stand up to the United States. That means stand up to us and thwart some kind of policy of ours and you see him doing it in syria and elsewhere. So short term long term. Shortterm policy toward russia, longterm policy toward russia. Putin wont be there forever. What do we do about those two different tracks . Short term is what i talked about. We need to russia needs to pay the price for their invasion into ukraine. Also theyre Still Holding 20 of georgias territory. They still have troops posted in moldova. So they have to pay the price internationally for that. We have to stay tough but we have to be pragmatic so we can work with them in syria. Theres room for a compromise there. We can talk about that later but in the long run i think eventually if we hold firm with russia we can bring russia back into the fold. Thats whats in everyones interest, first and foremost the russian people but also the United States and our allies. Thats long term . Thats long term. Thats out there. Theres probably past putin and into the next administration. Dr. Evelyn farkas, thank you so much for being on the show this morning. Good luck with those lunches. Coming up, ted cruz takes fire on all sides. First from donald trump and now his faith is being questioned in a new super pac ad. Thats ahead on morning joe. Et may not always be clear. But at t. Rowe price, we can help guide your retirement savings. So wherever your Retirement Journey takes you, we can help you reach your goals. Call us or your advisor t. Rowe price. Invest with confidence. Coming up at the top of the hour, the grenade that donald trump just tossed into the president ial campaign. Actually, what happened was lets me explain what happened. Yeah, please, yeah. They rolled it under his table. He was eating a porter house, he finished his porter house, wiped his mouth, said, hey, ivanka, ill be there in a minute, and he rolled it under foxs table and it blew up. Seriously, why are they doing that . Why are they doing that . Joe, this is a tease. Dropping out of fox newss debate days from the iowa caucuses. Its a good tease. In a tease you dont tell the whole story. Well, were going to get smart. Well bring in historian john meacham who will talk about sheas shays rebellion. This reminds me of a prussian the Washington Post robert costa comes on for a full analysis. Plus ted cruzs message to iowa. Meacham will tell us ted cruzs message to iowa pastors. Help me stop trump in iowa or he could be unstoppable. Thats his message. Morning joe is back in a moment. The possibility of a flare swas almost always on my mind. Thinking about what to avoid, where to go. And how to deal with my uc. To me, that was normal. Until i talked to my doctor. She told me that humira helps people like me get uc under control and keep it under control when certain medications havent worked well enough. Humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. Serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening Heart Failure. Before treatment, get tested for tb. Tell your doctor if youve been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if youve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flulike symptoms or sores. Dont start humira if you have an infection. Raise your expectations. Ask your gastroenterologist about humira. With humira, control is possible. I thione second its there. Day. Then, woosh, its gone. I swear i saw it swallow seven people. Seven. I just wish one of those people could have been mrs. Johnson. [dog bark] trust me, were dealing with a higher intelligence here. The allnew audi q7 is here. Jake reese, day to feel alive jake reese, day to feel alive jake reese, day to feel alive would you turn that microphone off, please. You asked for me i am paying for this microphone [ cheers and applause ] that was Ronald Reagan in New Hampshire, nashua, to be exact, in front of thousands of people. Including barnicle. The moderator, joe breen, began reading the rules for the debate when Ronald Reagan tried to protest. Breen attempted to have the mike cut off and history is repeating itself. You were there. Ronald reagan and i remember reading america in search of itself which was sort of a teddy white summary of but he started with that scene and he said for a nation that felt like it was rudderless and in need of strong leadership that was a defining moment in the 1980 campaign. I find this fox debate to be history repeating itself and puts donald trump in the position now where we can literally dominate the entire narrative for the last five days going into iowa. Well, reagan off that one moment became the dominant figure in those primaries and certainly donald trump is the dominant figure in these primaries and you would have to think that what happened yesterday with the whole debate flap with fox that donald trump played strongly into his hands it played strongly into his hands the way he handled it and the way fox handled it. We have the Washington Post eugene robinson, elise jordan, political reporter for the Washington Post and nbc political analyst robert costa and Pulitzer Prize winning historian john meacham. Wow by the way, sales requires us to say this sheas rebellion john meacham, any mention of the francoprussian war will be sponsored by sominex this half hour. Oh do they still have sominex . Were just kidding. Youre insightful, you give us perspective. Perspective we dont want to have. No, we do, we do. Donald trump tweeted a poll linking this Instagram Video asking whether or not he should participate in the fox news debate. Megyn kellys really biased against me. She knows that, i know that, Everybody Knows. That do you really think she can be fair at a debate . And fox replied with a sarcastic statement and this is it. We learned a secret back channel that the ayatollah and putin both intend to treat donald trump unfairly when they meet with him if he becomes president. Trump has his own secret plan to replace the cabinet with his twitter followers to see if he should even go to those meetings. Um, willie, three questions why, why, why . What in the world . Who was thinking a News Organization. If they want 22 Million Viewers, they knew thats why seriously there are going to be conspiracy theorists saying roger and trump cooked this up because they knew trump would not show up. I still maintain that this could be the opening salvo in something thats going to get it to the level of professional relation. Im not falling for it. Hell show up one way or the other. I hope Wounded Warriors make a lot of money. If you know fox news, if youve ever made a page six statement, this is how they go after people. Its a very strong press department. But theyre dealing with trump. And, mike, they had a fight with trump before which they had to back down. Trump said i will never go back on the network again, roger ailes called donald, they struck they made peace and they continued. But this is bad for fox. Well, the more we talk about it, though, the more i am leaning towards really the wwf theory. I think fox and trump are playing chess. It will be interesting to see how it plays out but i dont think ailes strategy is necessarily wrong and what really manages to get under trumps skin is making fun of him. And republican the white house Correspondents Dinner when president obama made fun of trump. He did not like it at all. Hes managed to get under trumps skin and well see how it plays out. Going back to 1980 and Ronald Reagan, that show of strength, this is this is nashua multiplied a thousand fold and, again, trump didnt pay for the mike but he is paying for foxs bills for a while. If theres a roll that nbc and cnn would play, foxes numbers would be two million instead of 22 million. Its a Media Version of nashua, that was the manoamano moment when bush and reagan were supposed to go Forward Together and as george h. W. Bush said, because bush was staring straight ahead refusing to let the other republicans on stage and he said it was not my finest hour to say the least. But one of the things that sheds light on this is part of the reason bush refused to open up the debate to the other players was gordon humphrey, New Hampshire conservative, had come to bush and and humphrey had been attacking bush all around the state as kind of an insurgent republican against the establishment republican. So this purist versus prague ma first argument thats been going on for 35 years continues now and there were some seeds of in the the reagan bush moment. We have late word on how this will play out. But first in response to that statement, heres trump. With me, theyre dealing with somebody thats a little different. They cant toy with me like they toy with everybody else. Let them have their debate and see how they do with the ratings. I told them, i said give money to the Wounded Warriors with, give money to the veterans, theyll make a fortune, lets see how many people watch. When they sent out the wise guy press releases done by some pr person along with roger ailes i say bye bye, okay . Ive done six debates. Ive done six. According to every single poll, ive won ever debate. Ive won six. Now you say when does it stop. How many do you have to do republicans go on forever and ever and ever with debates. We have people on the sthand have zero, that have one, that have nothing. So its time somebody plays grownup. And when i see a press release written by a child like i just saw, i said what do i have to do . What do i have to make fox rich. Let me make the veterans rich. You go through that statement, thats trump at its very best. He made a lot of great points there which, you know, im sitting at 42 , and im going to be on the same stage with people after they put a press release out written by a child which thats stinging because it looks like a very childish press release. Gene robinson, fox made trump look like the grownup. Well, they did manage to do that and thats not always an easy thing to do 2 t big fox mistake it was press release. Its not defitting a News Organization in my view. If they make a decision that megyn kelly will be a moderator, they can hardly back down from that. Now try to pour salt on his wounds in wwf way, unless willie is right and its all a setup and, you know, Vince Mcmahon is going to come out and say lets get ready to rumble, unless thats the case i think fox stepped in it this time. I think they did, too. And, willie, again, people that say that donald trump is afraid to go up against megyn kelly missed the entire point. Youd have to be stupid as a candidate, you would have to be stupid to go on a debate stage with a News Organization that had been this openly hostile to you. Stupid. And donald trump is anything but stupid. They actually if they wanted 22 Million Viewers, they shot themselves in the foot with that press release. Dont you think, just like the last one of these cvs, roger and donald will talk, well get Something Else and tomorrow morning . Per trump, he said he is not talking to roger ailes anymore, hes the chairman of hiss company, he will only talk to Rupert Murdoch chairman to chairman. So this now you know, per our sources last night roger ailes was calling ivanka, trying to get in touch with trump, calling melania, people he has a Good Relationship with, they love roger, have a Great Respect for him. But at this point trumps only going to talk to rupert and theyll figure it out. And roger wont pulling me i didnt know k pull megyn kell off that debate. This is fun to talk about in this back and forth way but lets talk about how it affects the campaign with five days till voting in iowa. How do you see that shaking out for donald trump but the rest of the field trying to stay with him . Particularly ted cruz whos neck in neck in iowa. Checking in with rival campaigns last night, you get the sense they see an opening, a chance to get attention on the debate stage, a chance to underscore their own attention to iowa, their ability to do retail politics rather than get engaged with drama with fox news. At the same time, theres fear privately among the rival campaigns that trump is sucking all the oxygen out of the room and with just days to go its very hard to get a headline. So theyre excited about trump not being at the debate because theyll have time to talk. Well, if youre in the low Single Digits its time to talk but other weiss youre not surging ahead because its trump. I guess the question is this, if a tree falls in the forest and nobodys there, does it make a sound . [ laughter ] hmm . Question i have for you. Iowa caucus goer, joe, what do you think . They want to see candidates up close. Does iowa interpret this . Every other state at this point is a different discussion. Does iowa react in a negative way to trump not being on the stage or not . Im in iowa, if most republicans are in iowa and trying to figure out whether they want to watch donald trump and his raise money for Wounded Warriors. Taking everybody on. Not being at the debate. Or am i going to watch the debate that doesnt have donald trump but guys sitting at zero and 1 and 2 . For the voters of iowa, thats an easy call. Youre watching trump. And yet brit hume, on the side of megyn kelly, said it wont affect his supporters, i think it makes him look stronger. But lets talk about ted cruz. Hes had a rough two weeks. Hes asking for a manoamano fight with donald trump. Earlier this month ted cruzs net favorability was through the roof among republicans but over the course of last month when the two have exchanged blows trump has seen his net favorability steadily rise while cruzs has fallen off precipitously. Hes lost 16 points in just the last few weeks and we told you he shed nine points among white evangelical, a key demographic in winning iowa. So what is it about donald trump that everybody supposedly loves, even though his favorabilities are shooting up, that taking on trump is like kryptonite to these republican challengers. Everybody that takes on trump dies, right . Its not a great trend. Around december 21, those numbers for cruz started to go down and i think cruz has the most to lose if trump doesnt participate because then on the stage hes the highest in the polls so he becomes the pinata for everybody else. So he gets more pleasure great point. That is a nightmare scenario for cruz because then jeb, marco, rand exactly, theyll pile it on even more. Cruz peaked a little too early and he if he doesnt win in iowa it will be seen as a loss for cruz whereas trump is seen as an upset. So the stakes are very high. The Christian Broadcasting Network posted video of Ted Cruz Making a direct appeal to pastors. If donald wins iowa he right now has a substantial lead in New Hampshire. If he went on to win New Hampshire as well, theres a good chance he could be unstoppable and be our nominee. So its almost a threat i guess . Its interesting. I made the same point and the Cruz Campaign pushed back and said, well, no, hes not unstoppable and ted said the same thing, i got pushback on 24 hours before for saying on the air. Because if trump wins iowa, which hes not supposed to win, hes 20 points ahead in New Hampshire 20, points ahead in South Carolina, 253, 30 points ahead in the south. This is a freight train, get out of the way and thats what ted cruz, robert costa, is telling those pastors, you either stop this guy here or its over. Is that the growing feeling there especially marco rubio dropping in one poll after another. There is a fear there. Speaking of the Cruz Campaign, theyre lowering expectations, cruz is lowering expectations himself and more comments he made to those pastors. Theres a sense in the cruz world that trump could win iowa at this point and they want to keep cruz in the race. We can go into South Carolina and the march 1 dates. The other problem for cruz, joe, mike huckabee, santorum, theyre still taking the evangelical vote just as trump is getting his own evangelical endorsements. Thats going right at cruzs core coalition. Mike is going to go to meacham. But speaking of huckabee still in this race going after cruz, watch this attack ad from mike huckabee. Have you thought about the caucus . A little i heard something about ted cruz, that gay marriage wouldnt be a top priority for him . He said it at a fundraiser in new york city. Tells them one thing, tells iowans another. I also heard that cruz gives less than 1 to charity and church. He doesnt tithe. A millionaire that brags about his faith all the time . Just what we need, another phony. I guess weve narrowed dun our list. Cant caucus for cruz. Wow. That buttresses the point that was just made. Exactly. Theres so many pacs putting out anticruz ads, they havent focused on trump. Why is right to rise going after rubio and not trump sfnchts . Its amazing. Theyre all shooting each other. Its like the wild west. And donald trump is driving around in his rollsroyce. A few moments ago joe asked you about something that occurred in 1980. I know i can talk to you about 1780 and you can bring us up to speed. Please dont. And i think rightly. But weve been talking nearly nonstop about donald trump. Not so much the debate but about donald trump, the impact of fox on trump, trump on fox visavis the debate that occurs thursday night. Have you ever heard of, read about, researched or have any comprehension of a prior campaign where one person has been such a focus, an obsessive focus, by the news media and nearly everyone . No. Not in recent memory. Youve gotten a american tradition. There was let me give you an early 19th century just to play the type. I want to keep everybody happy. Thank you for playing to type. I know its difficult but ill try. Im going to sleep too type. But right before Andrew Jackson ran for president a scottish traveller was going through the United States and he wrote that politics the same way he said politics is our National Sport but people have much more an interest in the apostle than the creed. I knew that guy. He worked at the globe for a while. [ laughter ] i think yall were copy boys together. So there is a tendency to that. But this is remarkable. Duff, its also we can argue about whattowhat extent this is totally a cult of personality as opposed to a coherent set of policy prescriptions. The great examples in recent histories, the Ronald Reagans, the lyndon johnsons, the john kennedys. These were much particular diggsal political figures. Even Ronald Reagan, two term california governor. He spent the 50s working out a coherent political philosophy, he was a much more, if you will, an establishment figure, a much more recognizable figure than trump is and so the fact we spend so much time on the elements of the new york media world and the debate arrangements show to the extent what extent his shadow has just gone over the campaign in a way that totally dominates. Mark halperin, whats so fascinating, though, is we hear from a lot of media critics that say, well, trumps successful. We had somebody on the other day that said you guys were right predicting trump. But you all are responsible because you talk about him all the time thats a fallacy. What happens is trump does something that provokes headlines and then it provokes three days of stories in the New York Times and Washington Post about how his campaign is going to collapse in the next three days. The death watch is on. So everything is holding their breath until the polls come out four or five days later and shows he goes up by ten points. So then they spent the next weekend talking about trump going up ten points and that didnt kill him and then Something Else happens and trump will Say Something inflammatory. The press will then write three or four days of story about how the will be the event that kills donald trump so we wait three or four more days and see his poll numbers go up. This has been happening for six months. It started with mexicans, then it was john mccain, then it was megyn kelly. Dont forget muslims. Then it was muslims. Now its fox news and its the press that makes the makes a oneday story a oneweek story by predicting the bitter end for donald trump and they are always wrong. They saw it happening last night on twitter. Donalds scared of no, hes not. Hes scared of losing. The only thing hes scared of losing, he doesnt like to lose and fox news has just walked into the biggest donald trump trap of the 2016 campaign. When we say that donald trump is constantly rewriting the rule book of president ial politics, its true and hes doing it with fox but theres another side of it. Theres a different part of the rule book involving dominating Media Coverage that hes mastered. Hes not rewriting it, hes mastered it. Hes got another big endorsement today, were told. Hes going to dominate thursday night not no matter what happens. I agree hell go into the debate but whether he does or not hell dominate thursday night either way and i believe that its true that he can win iowa and New Hampshire and South Carolina. But i will say ted cruz is still the best positioned person to stop trump or be competitive with trump into march. Even if he loses hereby. Obviously it would be better for him to win here but theres still a possibility that trump but cruz is telling pastors that if he wins iowa he may be unstoppable. Hes saying he may be but hes saying that because he really wants to inspire them to stop trump here. Cruzs chances to be the nominee, no doubt, are exponentially greater if he wins iowa, even by one vote. But if you look at the rest of the field, rubio, kasich, bush, none will be in a position to stop trump as cruz is even if cruise loses iowa because of his money, his support, his organization. Do you agree . I think if he loses in iowa his fund raise willing dry up but he has a good war chest. I have to say this last tweet that you reported on is now at the chairman level says to me that theres going to be big drama, a big deal and the rule book will be rewritten four more tim time times. Mark halperin, robert costa andy gene robinson, thank you for being on this morning. Senator ben sass joins us. First, who will inherit president obamas legacy . There are signs that neither the president nor Bernie Sanders think it will be sanders. That story when morning joe comes right back. You forgot the milk thats lactaid®. Right. 100 real milk, just without the lactose. So, no discomfort . Exactly. Try some. Mmm, it is real milk. Lactaid®. 100 real milk. No discomfort. Weve got new numbers out of iowa just this morning, Bernie Sanders in iowa in the lead. But just barely. Quinnipiac poll has sanders at 49 . Hillary clinton at 45 p inside the margin of error looking at the breakdown by age. This is stunning, sanders way ahead with Younger Voters, 78 to clintons 21 with voters from age 18 to 44. Clinton has the advantage with older demographics. That could lead to a clinton win. Mark halperin is not here but if he were [ laughter ] he would agree with me that when you look at voters, old older voters are saying theyll vote for me, thats literally money in the bank. I know theyre going because older voters vote. When i hear Younger Voters saying theyd vote for me if they show up. Thats great but you actually has to show up. And on a caucus night . Ive been seeing younger people in the Bernie Sanders crowds, theyre massive crowds, i get. That but it looks like about 90 of them are under the age 2506. Its less. Show the crowds. So thats thats a big question mark hanging over the caucuses. What would you mark say though about a National Poll at this stage . The import of a National Poll . Zero. Im seeing a lot of bald heads and older people. Just saying. Its not all young people. But that was why are you looking at me . That was out of iowa, though. The poll was in iowa. Okay heres young people but in a lot of the shots of the crowds i wasnt just seeing young people. Look at the people in the back of the stage. Theyre predominantly younger. All im saying, his numbers are going to amount to his ground game. Is it as good as the clinton ground game . Can he get those people out to the caucuses . Is it as good and, willie, again, i had a very simple theory, and the theory was if you voted four years ago in a primary and you voted two years ago in a primary you are going to vote this year in the primary and i put them down as i call them superrepublicans. And i had a list of superrepublican, they were the only people i talked to because what i figured out was you can tell me you love me, you can tell me youre going to vote 20 times and i learned it time and time again. If you didnt vote in the primary four years ago and you didnt vote in the primary two years ago you are not going to vote in a primary this time. It was fascinating last night to listen to david plouffe, one of the architects of the Obama Campaign in 2008 that revolutionized politics talking about assessing the democratic race in iowa and he supports Hillary Clinton but he said if i were Bernie Sanders i would be worried about translating this enthusiasm into votes. You have to get the people out to vote. And the other thing people have talked about is this concentration in College Towns so you win the counties which have College Towns but Hillary Clinton wins the perimeter counties and other counties that arent as young as that. And plouffe knows more than anybody else knows that the obama turnout in 2008 was roughly 200,000 to caucuses. So we have to watch that number next month night to see where that number is in 2016. Still remarkable, though, to see whats happened. You know, early on in the Obama Campaign, we saw he raised the money, we saw the crowds, not as big as these clouds. But i remember reading a New York Times article in the summer of 07 that said they were piling all the money they were getting not into ads but into a ground game. I said okay, this guy learned a lesson from howard dean. Hes going to do great. The question is how much is bernie putting into his ground game . How much is he putting into the beautiful ads . Bernie sanders is scheduled to meet with president obama only their second private meeting in seven years of the obama white house. Yesterday sanders responded to the president s recent comments characterizing the senator as too narrowly focused on income inequality. However sanders focused on the positive and said the president was very generous to me. But a closer look at sanderss relationship with the white house shows a democratic establishment that has sometimes had its reservations. I dont think thats true. President obama rejects comparisons to Bernie Sanders and heaps praise on his former rival, Hillary Clinton, as another upstart senator threatens her white house hopes. The truth is, in 2007 2008 sometimes my supporters i think got too huffy about what were legitimate questions she was raising. Now, amid a drop in the poll, clintons new attacks on sanders readiness echo her old ones against then senator obama back in 2008. My opponent doesnt have much experience creating jobs. In theory theres a lot to like about some of his ideas. But in theory isnt enough. Only 2016 is not the first time the clintons and president obama have seemingly teamed up against sanders. The senate will come to order. You can call what im doing today whatever you want. You can call it a filibuster, you can call it a very long speech. In late 2010, Bernie Sanders spoke for eight and a half hours on the senate floor, railing against a dealing that president obama struck with Congressional Republicans a deal which included a twoyear extension of the bush tax cuts. Excuse me. Dont force my kids over the a lower standard of living in order to give tax breaks to the richest people in this country. Sanders wasnt alone. Dozens of democrats in the house and senate had also stood up against the deal but it was the sanders spotlight that had the white house on defense. For most of the day today, the tax debate had been dominated by Bernie Sanders. Well, about 4 00 today clearly the white house had had enough. President obama marched bill clinton into the press briefing room. Youre in good hands. And left. Theres never a perfect bipartisan bill in the eyes of a partisan and i think its enormous relief for america to think that both parties might vote for something. Ultimately, the bill passed and while rates were later raised on higher incomes, the rest of the bush tax cuts became permanent. In the meantime, bill clinton went on to become obamas secretary of explaining stuff while sanders planted the seed for a future run. I i think if a progressive democrat wants to go on i think it would enliven the debate. As sanders battles clinton to become the onetime successor, the onetime underdog is sounding a bit like the blushment he once held at bay. This job right here, you dont have the luxury of just focusing on one thing. Wow. Wow. A little history there, i think. Lets bring in msnbc Political Correspondent kasie hunt live from des moines, iowa. Kasie, you caught up with Bernie Sanders yesterday and asked him about president obama. What did he say . Good morning. Yeah, the battle here many in iowa on the democratic side, its hard not to be struck by how much it is over obamas legacy in so many different ways, whether its politically, Bernie Sanders changed his signs a couple weeks ago so theyre blue and they say a future you can believe in. Weve seen that somewhere before. From a coalition perspective, Hillary Clinton is trying to get this coalition together that looks like the Obama Coalition that includes minorities, women. Meanwhile, sanders has yuck people. But what sanders doesnt want are obamalike expectations for caucus night. Heres what he told me when i asked him about it. Are you the heir to president obama here in iowa . I wouldnt look, no. Obama in 2008 ran a campaign that which is going to stay in the history books. Do i think in this campaign we are going to match that . I would love to see us do that. I hope we can, frankly, i dont think we can. I think we stand a real chance to create a large voter turnout, i doubt it will be as high as 2008, wish it was, but i dont think it will be. But i think it will be high enough for us to win here in iowa. Bernie sanders doesnt have to hit obama turnout levels to ultimately make this a story were talking about for a long time to come but as you heard there, he doesnt think hell get to where the president did. Obama, of course, come nothing from where for a pretty decisive victory in 2008. I dont think anyone is expecting that. Its going to be much closer. Kasie hunt, thank you very much. Still to come, some of Donald Trumps Top Competitors arent shedding any tears that the debate tomorrow might not happen with donald trump. Hallie jackson joins us along the campaign trail with their reaction next. Has a number. But not every Insurance Company understands the life behind it. For those whove served and the families whove supported them, we offer our best service in return. Usaa. We know what it means to serve. Get an insurance quote and see why 92 of our members plan to stay for life. Being hacked and intellectual property being stolen. That is cybercrime and it affects each and every one of us. Microsoft created the digital crimes unit to fight cybercrime. We use the microsoft cloud to visualize information so we can track down the criminals. When it comes to the cloud, trust and security are paramount. Were building what we learn back into the cloud to make people and organizations safer. Beth, i hear you calling. S but i cant come home right now. Me and the boys are playing. All nig t text beth, what can i do. [siri ] message. Pick up milk. Oh, right. Milk. Introducing the newly redesigned passat. From volkswagen. Lets bring in nbc news correspondent Hallie Jackson live in des moines. Hallie, take us through what the other candidates are saying about Donald Trumps decision to back out of tomorrow nights debate. So theres really two ways to look at this, right, mika . Youve got what donald trump and his campaign is hoping to show as sort of trump is the strong man, calling the rules, changing the game himself which could appeal to Trump Supporters who see that as strength. What these republican candidates are hoping is people see it as a sign of weakness. Theyre all basically calling out donald trump for being a chicken, essentially. You heard ted cruz talking about this on the radio at his Campaign Event to raucous cheers challenging ted cruz to a donald trump, rather, to a oneonone debate. Basically saying hey, donald trump, get on the mark levin show with me, we can have a moderator, no have the a moderator, lets go at it the two of us. This is a couple things for cruz. One, it puts him in the narrative of today where donald trump is going to dominate the headlines, as you know. This allows cruz to get into the mix when it comes to the media talking points and the media narrative. The other thing it does is helps ted cruz push the idea he wants to push that this has become a two man race between him and donald trump. No trump on stage tomorrow night, guys, means cruz will be coming under pretty heavy incoming from base clip everybody else in the field. The establishment candidates are talking about this. Heres what Chris Christie had to say about Donald Trumps debate no show. Fox Business News demoted me from the main stage to the second debate, i didnt whine, i didnt cry, and i didnt not show up. I went behind the podium and the microphone, i put my views out to the American People because thats what you do and thats what you learn when youre a governor. You cant anticipate everything thats going to happen, youre going to get bad press, crises, natural disasters, youve got to show up. And this is how weve seen most of the republican field come at trump for this, guys, as weak, somebody whos scared, somebody whos whining, somebody running away from tough questions. Cruz has said its disrespectful to caucus voeeters in iowa. So im curious to see what caucus goers think, people who are supporting these candidates doesnt it seem like ted cruz has the most to lose in this . For two reasons, first of all because as elise said when she was here earlier today, if hes the one in first place then all of the shooting, all of the theyre all its aimed at him. As you know, the ads arent going after trump, its going after cruz and rubio and bush. And hi needs a good performance to catch up to trump, right . He does. And the debate before the cause of action is a high stakes event for him. So against donald trump ted cruz has landed punches. So without that foil i think youre right, joe, theyll hammer him on the debate stage. The campaign knows that will be tend result of donald trump not being on the stage tomorrow night. So cruz potentially having trump on stage is more beneficial than having him off. Is. Wow. So jeb bush wrote do you know who else is scared of tough questions from fox and megyn kelly . Barack obama. Enough whining. Jeb talking to trump there yeah. I think jeb is one of the few candidates in many cases the only one whos gone after trump so this is not out of character for him. Hes been the one voice consistently whos gone directly at trump while other candidates have shot at each other. Sort of just like pinged off. Theres a new poll out of New Hampshire that has bush jebs up there in second place. Second place in 14 . Thats another benefit of tomorrow night. What whats that . That it allows the establishment candidates like jeb bush to have oxygen. It opens up space to shine a little bit when you had into iowa and New Hampshire. People like jeb bush, john kasich and Chris Christie who may have the opportunity to hammer trump when trump isnt there and to get their talking points in. Get more time for themselves. I think hes going to end up on the stage. Look at themmer son poll without New Hampshire. Donald trump at 35 , jeb bush jumping to 18 . Wow. John kasich at 14 . Rubio down to 9 , cruz down to 8 . Cruz was in second place. Well get the polls methodology today, but weve seen another poll. John kasich at 14 in the latest poll as well. Kasich has moved considerably over the past two weeks. The thing about New Hampshire its the last five or six days. Thats when New Hampshire traditionally breaks so the bush numbers, i would imagine, given what theyve been through for the past four or five months, theyre encouraged by this and theyre still wait to those last five or six days. Iowa will have will have a big impact on the second tear of candidates. And bush and kasich, those would be really solid. The guys at the bottom of that list, rubio and cruz, their performances in iowa matter a great deal to New Hampshire i think christies expectations, jebs expectations, kasichs expectations are low enough, hallie, well let you weigh in on this, in iowa, that they dont have to perform so well in iowa. They are New Hampshire candidates. But cruz and rubio, they can not fourth or fifth, rubio cant finish fourth or fifth in iowa and hope for a good jump. I would say its probably rubio more than cruz, right, that has to have a solid third place finish in iowa too carry him into New Hampshire. A rubio source telling me they are feeling good about where they are in iowa. I dont think theres an expectation they can beat ted cruz or trump but theyre seeing an increasing number of caucus commits. How many people were out . I think the campaign count was 500 at the event last night if im not mistaken. It might have been under that. Its big. Hes packing room, sure, and he seems to do better when he has these bigger crowds, he seems to have more energy and feeds off of that a bit. But talking to people who were there, i heard a lot of im Still Deciding between cruz and rubio in iowa. And thats what marco rubio has to get past. Hallie jackson, thank you very much. Still ahead this morning while im in favor of more civility, my actual call here is for more substance. This is not a call for less fighting, this is a call for more meaningful fighting. Senator ben sasse kicked off his young career in the senate with an epic speech calling for civility and meaningfulness of debate. Now hes working for any candidate who wants to take on donald trump. The senator joins us next. The future belongs to the fast. And to help you accelerate, weve created a new company. 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So if being pro constitution makes me antimr. Trump, i think thats his problem. What is it specifically about mr. Trump that you think is anticonstitution . I mean, the guy talks constantly how hell get everything done alone. He said recently that if hes elected president hell be able to do whatever he wants. Thats pretty much what the American Revolution was about. We already have one party in this country thats gone post constitutional. We dont need another one. Senator, we had him on the show the other day. He complained how ted cruz was, nobody in the senate liked ted cruz. Hed spend a lifetime making deals with other people, said he could work with other people, said he could work with people like nancy pelosi and work across the aisle. That doesnt sound like a guy whos talking about doing it all by himself. Yeah, well, i mean, when you talk to people in my town, you dont hear anybody saying if only there were more people who inside washington were focused on themselves and their deal making ability. What you hear about is people who want to believe in a shared sense of Human Dignity again and limited government because they believe in limitless human potential. I think more washington deal making is not really what anybody in nebraskas talking about and i havent heard it in iowa either. They want to talk about a constitutional republic. Im all about a constitutional republic. Been fighting for it for 20 years. You said donald trump was all about donald trump and he was going to do things by himself like a king. Then i said, no, he spent 20 minutes on our show yesterday talking about how unlike barack obama and ted cruz he wanted to work with other people. Then you criticized that. Which is it . Joe, did you ask him what he means if he says hes president hell be able to do whatever he wants . Because i dont hear him getting hard questions. He actually didnt say that on our show. If he did say that on our show, i certainly would have said, what do you mean. I would have explained checks and balances but, again, when hes on our show it made it sound like that he understood that unlike barack obama, you have to reach out to the other side and deal with the other side. Heres what people are asking me. Theyre saying, which way is it . Trump says hes for Single Payer Health care. He says he hates guns when he was thinking about running as a democrat. He says that hes proposed a 6 trillion tax increase in the past. He says when he runs if he gets elected president , hell be able to do whatever he wants. A lot of people really, really appreciate that hes accurately diagnosing a lot thats wrong but thats not the same as telling us what hes for. Whats he for . Senator, youre a really smart guy. Mika and i were talking about it, youre one of our favorites. When i ask this, im not asking this as a leading question or poking and prodding sure. But a hell of a lot of people in your great state of nebraska like donald trump, believe in donald trump, like my brother whos progun, who is an evangelical, whos gone to church every sunday his entire life who would rather drowned in scambia bay than ever vote for a democrat is 100 behind donald trump. I know a lot of lifelong republicans that are, too. Diagnose that for me, not just my family, but your nebraska supporters that support donald trump. Why is that given his past . Thats a great question, and im telling ya, i think that donald trump is really entertaining. I think that donald trump would be a great guy to have a beer with. I get that you guys have him on ever day because he makes for Great Television and your brother may be different, but i live in my state and i commute every week and what i hear at the Grocery Store is people saying, i am sick of washington. I am sick of the mess that is there. I am sick of the fact that people wont be blunt about the real problems we face. Right. I want to make America Great again and im glad donald trump will attack all of that nonsense, but frankly im not really sure what hes for. Thats what people actually say on the street. And ill tell ya, the oath i took is to a constitution. I want to make America Great again as well, and the way you do that is by a nation of limited government. Thats what people actually want when you give them time. If you just give them the choice between establishment insiders and donald trump, man, hes a lot of fun. Thats different than telling you how hed really govern and i think you guys misread how many folks really doubt back on the grassroots whether or not theyre sure that trumps for anything particular or if hes just for Donald Trumps election. Senator, i havent seen a poll out of nebraska. Im guessing donald trump would be ahead. Lets not talk about my brother. I think thats true. Lets not talk about this show. Lets not talk about having a beer. Im talking about your people, the people you represent and is it again, i ask this with all due respect because i love ya. Sure. I really do. I think youre a rising star. I didnt know that, joe. I appreciate that. You actually did know that. But but it sounds like youre talking down to people that you represent by saying, yeah, hes entertaining and hes a fun guy to have a beer with, but, you know, theres nothing there. Voters are wrong. And the voters are wrong in your own state. Hes probably in first place among your constituents. Lets lets be clear. I also think hes in first place and i think theres a huge element of it that is protest voting. When 3 to 1 americans think the country is on the wrong track, washington doesnt work. Nobody says that as effectively as donald trump. Yeah. And a huge part of what people are saying is i want this to change and i want to make America Great again. Theyre right about that. A lot of great americans are in Donald Trumps camp and he owes it to them to tell them what his actual positions are. All right. Senator, ill tell you what, thank you so much for being with us. Come back again. Thanks, guys. If you can just make one quick change and make sure that that ugly red turns to a crimson red and that n gets a big a on it. I think he looks good. All right. Joe, i dont think weve ever my wifes a tuscaloosa alumn. No way ive had enough of you people in my life. By the way, bobby baldeneli, the great coach for fsu, he said they were playing nebraska, they were huge. Scared the hell out of them. He walked over to one of the players, hey, whats that n on your shirt stand for . And the lineman looked at him dont give me the knowledge stuff. The lineman looked back at him and said, knowledge. Bobby said at that moment he knew they were going to lose by 40 points. More attacks from the liberal media on msnbc. We will be right back. Come on the set. Go huskers. Im a huge huskers fan. Be right back. After brushing, listerine® total care strengthens teeth, helps prevent cavities and restores tooth enamel. Its an easy way to give listerine® total care to the total family. Listerine® total care. One bottle, six benefits. Power to your mouth™. I thione second its there. Day. Then, woosh, its gone. I swear i saw it swallow seven people. Seven. I just wish one of those people could have been mrs. Johnson. [dog bark] trust me, were dealing with a higher intelligence here. The allnew audi q7 is here. Turn that microphone off, please. I am paying for this microphone [ applause ] you were there . You were not there. Come on, you were there, really . Were you really . Yeah. Well, you know, history is repeating itself. Sort of. Thats the story. In nashville, ronald regan, he goes to the debate in nashua and he doesnt like the rules as they are set up because he thinks its not fair to the rest of the candidates. He doesnt think its a level Playing Field so reagan just they tried to cut his mike off and he says, i paid for this mike, mr. Green. Big moment. Heres mr. Green. And you look at whether its teddy white or anybody else, they go back and they say, thats the defining moment of the primary campaign for ronald regan. It showed strength in a time of weakness and here we are how many years later . 45 years later. Wow. Do you believe that . It makes me feel old because i am 35 maybe its 35. We were just talking about feeling old, me and barnacle. And the same thing happens except its happening at fox news in the final week, and trump says its getting ugly. Trump just says im not going to go to a debate where the rules arent fair, where you have somebody whos openly hostile against me, actually got a cover photo on vanity fair simply because of hostility about me. Gets Michael Moore on fox news to side with me. I mean, there are a lot of people at fox news that are going, are you kidding me . So donald trump, just like ronald regan front page of the New York Times. You know what, thats fine. Actually, every paper. Look at this. Well get to the news in a second, but i dont understand the provocation by fox news yesterday. The statement. Yeah, the the the the just go there. They were trolling and they were tweaking a guy that brings 22 Million Viewers to their network. I mean, so ronald regan several years ago said, i paid for this mike. Donald trump says, i pay for your bills with my 22 Million Viewers. You know what i think that is, i think its roger ales who is equally strong to donald trump trying to call trumps bluff saying youre really not going to show up. But you dont do that. Fox does that. If you look at their history of statements they put out, theyre not afraid of anyone. This was a strange statement. Donald trump, well see if he i dont know if this is over yet, all im saying. You remember what happened last time though . The same thing happened after the debate, he said, im not going back on fox news. Yeah. And roger started calling me. Come on, lets work this out. Guess what, the news last night, all of the news reports, they were frantically calling trump. They were calling ivonka. They called malanya. They called everybody. Everybody. They were desperately trying to get ahold of trump to get him back to the debate. We know where this ends, right . Who put out that statement and why did they do it . First of all, the statement was issued by fox yesterday afternoon and evening were highly unusual. Not for fox if you follow them. Not for fox. Youre absolutely right. This is roger versus donald, mano a mano. Youre right, this isnt over. This isnt over. You saw Mike Barnacle is with us. In des moines, halperin, msnbc political analyst, eugene they just stuck an extra jolt of electricity in godzilla. He just grew 400 feet. Joe has just decided this is right in his wheel house. They seriously its this is the fattest fastball down the middle for don trump. Oh, wait, you ridicule me and mock me and give me a chance to look strong and i get to hold a separate event that outrates yours and im at the center of the political world and stage and im the good guy and nobodys watching your debate. Why . I dont understand. I had a very prominent, very sophisticated elected official call me early yesterday evening talking about trump and what had happened, what had ensued during the day and saying, well, you know, this is going to really hurt him. Oh, no. God. I said, since john mccain, since he made the statement of john mccain theyve been wrong. Shorthand facts. Donald trump withdrew from the seventh republican debate. It was scheduled for tomorrow night. He spent yesterday locked in a back and forth whether or not megyn kelly ought to be one of the moderators. Trump says that she has unfairly tweeted him. He tweeted a poll linking this Instagram Video asking whether or not he should participate. Megyn kellys really biased against me. She knows that. I know that. Everybody knows that. Do you really think she can be fair at a debate . Thats a really fair question, by the way. A really fair question considering her performance in the last debate. So fox replied with a sarcastic statement. This is what the guys were talking about here. Heres the statement. Quote, we learned a secret back channel that the ayatollah and putin both intend to treat donald trump unfairly when they meet with him if he becomes president. Trump has his own secret plan to replace the cabinet with his twitter followers to see if he should even go to those meetings. Like why . You know, the thing is, the question is, first of all, a News Organization that is going to run a debate provoking a candidate like that just is asking for it. Fascinating. Donald trump, i will tell you, i would literally go to the center of sixth avenue and set myself on fire. Set myself on fire. Joe, stop. Thats terrible. Before i stood on a debate stage with any News Organization that did that statement. I would tell them to go to hell a lot faster than donald trump did. Im not talking about fox. I get a ton of friends at fox. I love fox. I know a lot of people at fox are really twisted up about how this has gone down and how megyn kelly is somehow with Michael Moore taking over the network. They provoked him. They provoked him. They had to know. So trump had a response. Take a look. With me, theyre dealing with somebody thats a little bit different. They cant toy with me like they toy with everybody else so let them have their debate and lets see how they do with the ratings. And i told them, i said, give money to the Wounded Warriors, give money to the veterans. Theyre going to make a fortune with the debate. Now lets see how many people watch. When they sent out the wise guy press releases a little while ago done by some pr person along with roger ales, i said, byebye, okay . Ive done six debates. Ive done six. According to every single poll, ive won every single debate. Ive done six of them, and now you say, when does this stop . How many debates do you have to do . The republicans go on forever and ever and ever with debates. We have people on the stand that have zero, that have one, that have nothing. So its time that somebody plays grown up and then when i see a press release written by a child, like i just saw, i said, what do i have to do . Why do i have to make fox rich . Let me make the Wounded Warriors rich. Let me make the veterans rich. You do sit there and you watch donald trump. I tweeted out immediately after this because of course everybody on the right, the right establishment was going, oh, this is going to be the end of donald trump and oh, hes a baby. Again. Donalds scared. Donalds ducking. Most controlled donald trump has been the entire campaign in a press conference. He looks like the grown up. And hes exactly right. People are going, wait, i want to see 12 people on stage that are at 1 or 2 with moderators that werent fair last time . Im this is pretty simple. And theres been six debates, i think . And its pretty simple. All hes saying is, you know all right. Ive got somebody thats been hostile against me now for six months. It doesnt make a lot of sense. Lets see whats going on. Joining us by phone we have Donald Trumps Campaign Manager, cory lewendowski. Good morning. Good morning. Any chance that he will do this debate in any way, shape, or form . Any way to turn this around . I just dont think so. I mean, what you have with mr. Trump is you have a clear leader, a person who he said it best is not going to be toyed with. A person who understands when a bad deal is in front of him and is ready to walk away from a bad deal. Something that this country should be able to do, and i just dont see any way where fox is going to have a successful debate now when youve got the clear gop frontrunner whos decided to walk away from this debate because he cant be treated fairly on the debate stage. Youve got a network that wants to make news not about what theyre going to ask the candidates about the policy issues but about personal attacks. Maybe fox was goings to have a 20 or 25 million person debate. Without mr. Trumps participation i think you might have a 1 or 2 million person debate. What was donalds reaction when he got the press release yesterday . Did he know from the moment that he got the goading press release it was more like trolling of trump that he was not going to do the event . Well, i think it was very clear. Its very hard to appear with someone on network which is going to be as biased as they have been against him. As soon as they put that press release out it was clearly a statement which, you know, they did it just to get his attention. This is something that fox wanted to do to increase their ratings as it related to more people watching this debate and, you know, just doesnt make sense. What we know is that megyn kelly is totally obsessed with mr. Trump. Shes done show after show about why the media shouldnt be having him on television. Donald trump is the best debater on the debate stage. We know this. Hes a clear winner. He has been by every debate poll taking place. He has more television and radio than all the other candidates combined. Hes on your show all the time. He was on yesterday. The bottom line is you have people who arent going to be fair and ask questions that the American People want to talk about and instead they want to make this about themselves and thats what this is about and its a shame. So now ted cruz wants to bolt the debate. Mano a mano. Cruz against trump. What does trump say to that . Well, hes not the only one. Weve had calls from many of the candidates staff who say, why would we participate in the fox debate as well. I think youre finding once again you have the candidates reacting to the only true leader in this race, which is donald trump. He leaves and all of a sudden everyone realizes, hey, maybe its not the best idea to be involved in these debates. I had some calls who said, hey, can we come and join you in raising money for the Wounded Warriors, veterans because, you know, fox isnt going to be fair to you, what makes you think theyre going to be fair to us. Corey, do you think youll have more candidates bolting and raise money for the Wounded Warriors instead of going to the fox debate . Well, its very possible. Obviously they have to do what they think is best for their campaigns. Theyve reached out pro actively asking if they can be part of our event which were going to do on thursday night in des moines. Well see what happens. Corey, in the last 12, 13 hours have you heard from fox . Have they made any outreach to you, donald, a member of his family to get this debate back on track . I dont want to get into the internal discussions but i can tell you that, you know, there was some issues raised earlier about my conversations with some of the fox executives. You know, i think what they want to be, they want to be very dishonest unfortunately. Its a shame. When you have a conversation with some of the fox executives, youd hope theyd keep that conversation private. Instead you have executives over there with relatives working for other campaigns. Theyre putting debate questions together. Instead of making those questions and making sure the debate is fair, they have the statements being put out which arent helpful when you try to get out of an open and honest dialogue. Corey, its willie. I dont think this hurts you any way. What theyve said is what is it about megyn kelly that rattles Donald Trumps cage unlike anybody else . Hes fearless. He comes on any show hes asked to go on. Stays on for half an hour when hes asked to but it seems like theres something about her that he cant get past. Why is he afraid in this case to just stand on the stage even if he thinks shes going to be unfair and go head to head with her . Dont you think hed prevail in that . This has nothing to do about megyn kelly. Fox news is making tens of millions of dollars on the debate. Setting records. The highest in history weve ever seen of Cable Television unlike previous years. Hes won every debate. This isnt about megyn kelly at all. This is about giving the American People to ask questions, to hear from the candidates directly. What weve seen is with the cnbc debate when the moderators want to be the story and not let the candidate answer or have the opportunity to answer questions that the American People care about, theres ramifications to that. Still ahead on morning joe, 20,000 people turned out to see Bernie Sanders during two events in one day. The video is simply astonishing. Plus, images of a bygone era era when the top two lawmakers in the senate fought. Most importantly, talked. Former senators trent lott and tomorrow dashall joins us for how business used to be done and how it could be done again. The future belongs to the fast. And to help you accelerate, weve created a new company. One totally focused on whats next for your business. The True Partnership where people,technology and ideas push everyone forward. Accelerating innovation. Accelerating transformation. Accelerating next. Hewlett packard enterprise. The New Hampshire union leader has announced theyre going to partner with msnbc. Oh. Theyre going to host an additional debate on february 4th, five days before the New Hampshire primary. The dnc has said it would exclude any candidates that participate in any sanctioned debate so now the question is will the candidates show up. In a Statement Released yesterday dnc chair Debbie Wasserman schultz said we have no plans to sanction anymore debates but we will reconvene with our campaigns after those two contests to review the schedules. Bernie sanders says we would not want to jeopardize our ability to participate in future debates. He told the New York Times if they were sanctioned the stance would be different. Hillary clinton said she would be happy to participate in the New Hampshire debate if other candidates would agree which would allow the dny to sanction the debate. Martin omalley says he will participate. Mike, they tried to rig it for hillary. Not looking goodhillary. The debate schedule is a disgrace to the process. Schedule it on the super bowl, sunday night. The idea of one more debate whether its Hillary Clinton, Martin Omalley will jump in on it. Bernie sanders, i dont know why he would not jump in on it. He has nothing to lose in New Hampshire. Way ahead. Bernie sanders is set to meet with president obama in the oval office this morning. It is their only second private meeting in seven years of the obama white house. Last night he was in st. Paul, minnesota wow. Where a crowd of more than 14,000 people turned out to watch him speak. About 1 3 of them watched from a monitor in an overflow area. Lets look at that crowd for a second and listen. My gosh. That event came hours after 6,000 people gathered at a rally in nearby duluth. In all, two Campaign Stops and more than 20,000 people. You know no president , not Bernie Sander or anyone else, can effectively address the crises facing our country unless there is a political revolution. If we stand up, if we fight back, yeah, we can take on, we can defeat the billionaire class. That is what this campaign is about. Thank you all very much. Hillary clinton, meanwhile, held events in iowa. One event she drew 450 people. Shes telling invite tes that shes offering more than tag lines. I put my plans and i do want you to know what its going to cost. Im not engaging in rhetoric. Ive thought this through. I have a plan. I want you to understand it because i dont think you can get what we need done in the election or the presidency unless you level with people, you tell them what you can do and you let them then respond to it. So 14,000, mike, to 450 and. 14,000 incredible. Bernie sanders crowds are two, three, four times larger than Barack Obamas crowds were in iowa in 2008 and those were huge crowds. Massive. Stunning. The crowd, when you look at that ho, ho, ho, look at that just freeze. That reminds me of the trump shot from pensacola, florida. Yeah. Willie, like you said, other than when you wrote your first book yeah. I have not seen crowds well like that on a tuesday night when its like zero outside in minnesota. Yeah. I mean, that is unbelievable. Yeah. And the other thing you notice, too, about his crowds is how young they are. Well, that could be a problem. Youre thats a good point. I think we still have Mark Halperin. I watched your show last night as i always do with all due respect. Some of the discussion is, yes, hes neck in neck with Hillary Clinton. Is his core support too concentrated. Without getting too deep in the weeds, he has the College Towns locked down. Are they going to show up at the polls . Yeah. Is it just too many people in one place in one precinct and Hillary Clinton cleans up around the rest of the state . How do you see that shaking out, mark . Well, his campaigns been aware of that from the beginning. Theyve got a plan to try to get a lot of the College Students to not caucus in the three main College Towns but to go home to caucus, to spread around and take advantage of the caucus rules. I find his supporters to be at those events for all the right reasons, the reason you would want someone to come to youre vent if youre Bernie Sanders. You believe in his agenda, you want to see his vision of america enacted. I believe they have the mechanics and i believe a very High Percentage of his supporters, even young voters, first time voters will turn out. They have to get the mechanics to get the support spread around the state. Mark, let me ask you. So when i look at that young crowd and im reminded of howard deans young crowds in 2004 with orange caps, were looking at two different crowds . Yeah. Youre looking at three different things. One, howard deans message was not as clear as Bernie Sanders. He had a message from being from the democratic wing and democratic parties but he was conservative on issues, fiscal responsibilities. Number two, the mechanics of this campaign are much more rigorous than the Dean Campaign was. The last thing is, this is a twoperson race. Howard dean was running against many people. In this case its just clinton or if you dont like the establishment, its sanders. Coming up on morning joe, as trump and cruz pummel each other in the press, another fight is playing out as well. Oh, yeah, jeb bushs super pac is spending 1 million a day attacking me. I thought you were friends. I guess. Youll have to ask him about that. 1 million a day. The Rubio Campaign acknowledges its struggling to beat back attacks by jeb bush and his super pac. Well talk about that next with Jeremy Peters of the New York Times. Woah father, why cant we have directv like the macgregors do . Were settlers, son. We settle for things. Like having cable instead of directv. Hey, jebediah, hows it going . Working the land. Hoping for a fertile spring. All right. So we have to live with lower Customer Satisfaction . Im afraid so. Now go churn us some butter, boy, and then make your own clothes. Yes, sir. vo dont be a settler. Get rid of cable and upgrade to directv. Call 1800directv. Do something get on the floor oh im not a security guard, im a security monitor. I only notify people if there is a robbery. Theres a robbery. Why monitor a problem if you dont fix it . Thats why lifelock does more than free credit monitoring to protect you from identity theft. We not only alert you to identity threats, if you have a problem, well spend up to a Million Dollars on lawyers and experts to fix it. Lifelock. Join starting at 9. 99 a month. Text mom. Ill be right back. Be good. Boys have been really good today. Send. Lets get mark his own cell phone. Nice. Send. Brad could use a new bike. Send. [siri ] message. You decide. Theyre your kids. Why are you guys texting grandma . It was him. It was him. Keep your family connected. Appconnect. On the newly redesigned passat. From volkswagen. Yothats lactaid®. K right. 100 real milk, just without the lactose. So, no discomfort . Exactly. Try some. Mmm, it is real milk. Lactaid®. 100 real milk. No discomfort. You call women you dont like fat pigs, dogs, slobs and disgusting animals. Your twitter account has several disparaging comments about womens looks. You once told a contest tent on Celebrity Apprentice it would be a pretty picture to see her on her knees. Does that sound like the temperament and how will you answer the charge of Hillary Clinton who is likely to be the democratic nominee that you are part on the war on women. Trump will not apologize and i will certainly not apologize for doing Good Journalism so ill continue doing my job without fear or favor. Hes getting a little bit sharper in his language against his competitors. Just as ornery of reporters who dont cover him the way he wants to. Trump is not used to not controlling things as the chief executive of a large organization, but the truth is he doesnt get to control the media. Reaction from our leaders and elected officials was nothing compared to the nonstop, inses tant drum beat of Media Outlets that first booked donald trump to appear on their shows, then played those interviews ad nauseam all day long. Cnn and msnbc had trump half hour interviews by phone on their morning shows and then reran the exchanges in their entirety later in the day. It was all trump all the time across almost aural the media. That is just good, unbiased journalism and if i were a candidate, i certainly would want that person asking me questions in a fair and a balanced way. No, actually, as i said before, i would rather set myself on fire in front of the fox news studio than go on a debate stage with that. That was a look at megyn kelly. Author and host of studio 360, Curt Anderson in des moines iowa, Jeremy Peters. I love following your twitter feed. Thank you. Even though you hate, you hate chicago, the band chicago. I am so pleased with your introduction of great rock and roll on your twitter feed, joe. I was really shocked the day you you were shocked . I was and disappointed, frankly. Its like, you know, i was a young kid at the time. I was youngish. My cool older brothers and sisters by three or four years liked chicago. There you go. So im your older sibling. Okay. Older brother and sister. Whats going on. This is surreal. Its a surreal circus and you have two surreal forces clashing together, fox news and donald trump. No, its Pro Wrestling. Pro wrestling has been applicable to this thing all along. This is now truly that. I mean, and its my friend hare lan cobin said, no, hes going to show up. Its the Pro Wrestling playbook. You have the fake fight before but then you show up and youre mean. Shes doing that same megyn kelly, rather, and fox news behind her are doing that same thing. Now do i know that its all a plot and at 6 44 theyre going to make up . No, but my god it looks like it looks like hulk hogan of 1989, you know . Jeremy peters in iowa it looks like right now ted cruz has the most to lose if trump doesnt show up on that stage. Whats it look like . What are you hearing on the ground . No, i think thats right. I think its a question of exactly what trump does, if he doesnt show up on the stage. If hes able to pull off some production that gets better ratings than fox, then hes the victor. I think you guys hit it on the head. Roger ales is an expert show man. Someone who works very closely with him once described him to me as a broadway producer. He knows the hero, the villain, he has the pretty blonds, the backup singers. Thats what fox news is. Donald trump is an expert show man as well. Its a faceoff. I dont know. Im not willing to predict if theres going to be a victor in all of this. Are you calling this a clash of the broadway producers . Could be. It just could be. You know, curt, this morning about 6 15 willie geist said its wwf. The amazing thing to me, not just to me, a lot of people, is you can say what you want about donald trump and everybody has said myriad numbers of things about him. Marketing genius is what i think of when i think of donald trump. Well, and marketing genius beyond our ability to imagine. For six months he has made fatal mistake after fatal mistake not. In this case this could be, i dont know, it seemed to me as ive thought about it the last 48 hours, potentially his big mistake. I think if he doesnt show up and he doesnt do as well im going to check that off as number 72. Number 72. 72 . And 72nd prediction of the possible like his waterloo. If he doesnt win iowa and he had skipped the debate, then not doing the debate will start to see as, oh, thats where it began to crumble. Yeah. And so hes its double or nothing. If he wins iowa and he doesnt do the debate, hes more magic than ever. Oh, my god. On the democratic side were showing crowds of Bernie Sanders. I want to ask you, also barack obama 2008 but here youve got a guy that doesnt have the charisma of obama. Average donation 27. Hes turned everything we know about big money and politics. Im a conservative republican. You are. You cant help but look at what hes doing and be inspired. It is extraordinary. Look at that crowd tuesday night. Well, you know, as all kinds of Media Enterprises like this one, no doubt, think about how do we get the young people . Lets put some young people on the air. Exactly. Bernie sanders is the absolute reputation of that idea. You have just you have just repeated what mika and i have been yelling for years to tv executives. Just because you put young people on the show doesnt mean young people watch. Right. Sometimes they want to see a 74yearold cranky guy. Yes, exactly, rather than just a an uninteresting pretty young person. Yes. Theyre not really going for, i dont know, whos the young, pretty politician they can go for. Martin omalley is not young, hes not that pretty. Jeremy peters, in your latest piece on marco rubio you talk about some of the problems rubios having in trying to strike out against the establishment when he is in large part the establishment. Also suggestion that he may not be reporting as much money coming up on sunday as would be as his campaign would want. Whats the state of the Rubio Campaign . Who is the great hope for the republican establishmentarians around the globe . The Rubio Campaign has a little bit of an issue in that they keep hearing, wait until after New Hampshire, meaning that the donors for jeb and others who, you know, might be sympathetic to rubio dont want to abandon ship and jump on with marco until they see how he does in New Hampshire. Here in iowa basically the best he can hope to do is a strong third place showing. So hes already hes campaigning every day here this week, hell be here monday. Hes already looking past iowa, not just in New Hampshire, South Carolina, nevada. Theyre really putting a lot of stake in these big winner take all states. Do they have the money to get there . I dont know that they do yet, and its its that is going to be the key. Can he raise enough to sustain himself through a long slog. Sounds like the giuliani plan. Just wait until florida. Real quick. In your experience, 1968, 2008, 2016, most disruptive to the existing political process. Which year . Oh, this one. I would say more than 68 . Well, 68 as a year and as a moment in history, totally disruptive but, you know, Richard Nixon got the nomination. The political process was not so disruptive. Right. The democrats were ruined by chicago in 68. Right. But in terms of, whoa, i didnt see that happening, 68, you saw that happening. This, you know, day to day, month to month its all knew. Not many saw it coming. Jeremy peters, thank you very much. Curt, stay with us. Still to come, this may be hard to believe but apple is forecasting their first decline in sales in 13 years. Thats ahead on morning joe. Mmm, a perfect 177degrees. Mo i can bypass the counter and go straight to my car. And i dont have to talk to any humans, unless i want to. And i dont. And national lets me choose any car in the aisle. Control. Its so, whats the word . Sexy. Go national. Go like a pro. And im still struggling with my diabetes. I do my best to manage. But its hard to keep up with it. Your body and your diabetes change over time. Your treatment plan may too. Know your options. Oncedaily toujeo® is a longacting insulin from the makers of lantus®. It releases slowly to provide consistent insulin levels for a full 24 hours. Toujeo® also provides proven full 24hour blood sugar control and significant a1c reduction. Toujeo® is a longacting, manmade insulin used to control high blood sugar in adults with diabetes. It contains 3 times as much insulin in 1 milliliter as standard insulin. Dont use toujeo® to treat diabetic ketoacidosis, during episodes of low blood sugar, or if youre allergic to insulin. Allergic reaction may occur and may be life threatening. Dont reuse needles or share insulin pens, even if the needle has been changed. The most common side effect is low blood sugar, which can be serious and life threatening. It may cause shaking, sweating, fast heartbeat, and blurred vision. Check your blood sugar levels daily while using toujeo®. Injection site reactions may occur. Dont change your dose or type of insulin without talking to your doctor. Tell your doctor if you take other medicines and about all your medical conditions. Insulins, including toujeo, in combination with tzds thiazolidinediones may cause serious side effects like Heart Failure that can lead to death, even if youve never had Heart Failure before. Dont dilute or mix toujeo® with other insulins or solutions as it may not work as intended and you may lose blood sugar control, which could be serious. Pay no more than 15 per prescription for 12 months. Eligibility restrictions apply. Learn more at toujeo. Com info or call 8005803421. Also, 9 out of 10 Medicare Part d patients can get toujeo® at the lowest branded copay. Ask your doctor about the proven full 24hour blood sugar control of toujeo®. Lets bring in cnbcs sarah eisen and the former chairman and ceo of playboy. Christie hefner. Good to have you on board. Thank you. So, sarah, first of all, what are we looking at here . Whats the apple story . Yeah. So the question that investors are asking today, mika, is apple still a Growth Company . It is the Worlds Largest company, and by growth i mean explosive double digit growth weve come to know from Technology Names like facebook, netflix, amazon. Apple saying that in its current period, january through march, its actually expecting sales to decline from the year before. Thats the first time that apples seen that in about 13 years. Why . Iphone is key. Iphone is the key product for this company. Apple essentially created the Smartphone Market with the release of iphone in 2007. Thats why its the most valuable company in the world but people already have smart phones so its not seeing the growth. The other factor here, guys, is china. Weve talked a lot about this. Chinas the second most important market for apple. China is slowing and apple is going to feel the brunt of it. It will have to diversify or launch something incredible when it comes to the new iphone 7. Sarah eisen, thank you very much. Chrissy, we show these amazing shots of Bernie Sanders crowds and as well as Donald Trumps crowds. You were there from the beginning in 08, 07, 08 with barack obama. Draw parallels, if you can. Are there . Well, i think one of the things that propelled obama that is similar is that he recognized that people felt that the system wasnt working and they wanted a different kind of politics. And it was more a Campaign Based around that than any particular set of policies, which is why subsequent to his election people would say, i didnt really know for sure other than his vote against the iraq war exactly what he was going to do but he held up a mirror of a different way the country could move forward. And i felt from early on with trumps success that one of the things people were missing was that he tapped into something very genuine, which is a large number of people in this country feel legitimately that they have been left behind, that the country is not working for them. And a lot of what happens i think in that dynamic is who votes. Obama was successful in part because he got cohorts to turn out at much higher rates than traditionally. I think both sanders and trump are trying to do that. The quote, unquote, establishment of both parties i think is misapprehending how deep seeded that anxiety is. Right. So, curt, if youre barack obama, who is going to be the change agent, you have people now on the left with Bernie Sanders and on the right with donald trump saying the system doesnt work. What does that say about your ideas . If youre barack obama . Yeah. Well, you were you werent pretending to be a revolutionary except by nature of you could be the first africanamerican president. As an intellectual, as a talker, as a person of positions, he was a centrist. I maintain then, i maintain now. Not a disrupter . Not a disrupter. He was a he was a reformer, a moderate reformer within the party scheme. Yeah. Of course, go ahead. Jump in. Well, i agree with that in terms of how he governed, the pros part as we say, but i think he intended and somewhat disappointed by his inability to change the nature of politics. Sure. You saw him speak to that in the state. Union address. Thats why he raised jerrymandering and said it was his great regret. I think that that desire for transformation that propelled the tea party, that is propelling the black lives matter movement. The question is do these movements find a way to engage in changing our politics or are they protest movements . Christie hefner, thank you so much. Thank you curt, mike. Still ahead with morning joe, with a three Day Work Week and focus on fundraising, its no shock why the public is fed up with congress. Former Senate Leaders tom dashal and trent lott says they know how to fix it. Keep it right here on morning joe. Marie callender starts her fettucini with chicken and broccoli with tender white meat chicken and freshlymade pasta mixed in an alfredo sauce madefromscratch. Because she knows that the most comforting thing about comfort food, is who youre sharing it with. Marie callenders. Its time to savor. If youre looking to save money on your Medicare Part d prescriptions, walgreens says, carpe med diem. Seize the day to get more out of life and Medicare Part d. Just switch to walgreens for savings thatll be the highlight of your day. Now preview the cost of your copay before you fill. You can even get onedollar copays on select plans. Majority leader looked me in the eye and looked 54 republicans in the eye. I cannot believe he would tell a flat out lie. It was that attack on Mitch Mcconnell that turned leaders against ted cruz for good. Among them, trent lot who now says he would pick donald trump over ted cruz. Lott said if he was in the senate during cruzs critique, he would have, quote, had him removed from the floor for inappropriate conduct. Senator lott joined us alongside tom dashall. Theyve teemed up on a book, crisis point, why we must and how we can overcome our broken politics. We started with a question about the current partisan divide. People are spending even less time in washington today than they did 10, 15 years ago. Money as youve said many times on this show is much more of an issue. People spend 30, 40 hours a week raising money. The media has changed. Social media has dramatically changed the political landscape. Lets talk about senator lott, i remember we did a speech in pennsylvania and ed rendell came there. Ed rendell said he didnt seem like anything was going to pass. He said, back in our day we could have agreed on something. Cut a deal. Today he said if you walked into my office, it would be on 12 news websites before then and you would be crucified. Actually, the 90s and turn of the century was pretty good legislatively. We had republican control of congress. Bill clinton was president. That was step one. He talked to us a lot. We did find a way to do a whole lot. Can i stop you there . Yeah. Okay, we impeached him. It was the 90s, seemed like the thing to do. The old clinton though would engage. Ive just got to ask the question. How much of this problem do we lay at the feet of the last two president s, bush and obama who see congress as an enemy . Its very important to have strong leaders and it begins at the white house. Theres plenty of blame to go around. Congress is part of the problem. Sure they are. Number one, we need communication. The president doesnt talk a lot to congress. Republican leaders dont talk to democratic leaders. Tom and i had a good chemistry. I trusted tom, i respected tom. If i mistreated him when i was majority leader, hey, tom, i kind of overplayed my hand there. We had a great relationship. You have to have that. I remember watching you on meet the press with tim, you guys were mean to each other and yet you still figured out how to work. We respected each other. We developed a friendship and a relationship that really allowed us to get the work done and thats a big difference. But, you know, when you leave on thursday, come back on tuesday and try to run the country on wednesdays, you cant build relationships like we used to. Thats the why we must. Now lets get to how we can. How do we break through this. Three things. Hes already talked about it. First of all, i think they should bring their families to washington, quit sleeping in their offices. You know, they need to work five days a week and then take that other week to go home, work the districts, work their state. We do need to deal with things like civic responsibility. Money is a problem. One of the problems, one of the solutions that we advocate is a single primary day, one. Also, see if we cant find a way to shorten campaigns. I think thats one of the reasons why the people dont vote. Theyre tired of it. You have the negativity. Thats interesting. Look at the britts. Lets have some sort of shorter election cycle. Can either of you think of any other position in the united stat states, private or public. You run for office indicating youre going to have your hands in the tools of power, youre going to do this, youre going to do that, and you work three days a week . No, you cant. Is there theres no way you can do it. The countrys too complicated. Were dealing with issues internationally and domestically that really require full time at least five days, if not sometimes seven days a week. Youve got to spend more time there if you want quality governance. Having hearings, amendments and a lot of it should get done before it goes to the floor. It hardly ever happens anymore. You have a couple of people huddling together putting together an omnibus package. Were going to get away from the top down. Paul ryan says this. Im going to work with the Committee Chair men and the members on both sides. They have to be legislators more and politicians less. That will take congressional reform, and a call to service. How frustrating is it for you guys to see somebody get elected to the United States senate, at least when we were all growing up thats about as big of a position as guys from our background could ever aspire to. Thats extraordinary. Held in great esteem. The second people get to the senate they say, im going to use this to run for president. You have the revered characters, people like patmon na han or states men like john stenis. When they spoke, we all came to the floor and listened. Does that happen now . Not very much. I had a first grade teacher that taught me that Public Service was one of the highest kaulgs of our country. We elevated that. The stature of government and Public Service had a different perception then than it does today. We have to come back to that. Thats part of what weve got to do in education, teach history more effectively. Right. Bring people to a better understanding of what this is all about. The book is crisis point. Trent lott, tom dascle, thank you both very much. You totaled your brand new car. Nobodys hurt, but there will still be pain. It comes when your Insurance Company says theyll only pay three quarters of what it takes to replace it. What are you supposed to do . Drive three quarters of a car . Now if you had Liberty Mutual new car replacement, youd get your whole car back. I guess they dont want you driving around on three wheels. Smart. With Liberty Mutual new car replacement, well replace the full value of your car. See Car Insurance in a whole new light. Liberty mutual insurance. Legalzoom has your back. For your business, our trusted network of attorneys has provided guidance to over 100,000 people just like you. Visit legalzoom today. The legal help you can count on. Legalzoom. Legal help is here. T. To help sense danger before7 was engiyou do. Because when you live to innovate, you innovate to live. The allnew audi q7. A higher form of intelligence has arrived. Yothats lactaid®. K right. 100 real milk, just without the lactose. So, no discomfort . Exactly. Try some. Mmm, it is real milk. Lactaid®. 100 real milk. No discomfort. These are the hands that build the machines, the machines that sort, stack and seal. These are the hands that keep private information private. These are the hands of pitney bowes, the craftsmen of commerce. These are the hands that dig for opportunity, identify patterns, and uncover risk. These are the hands of pitney bowes, the craftsmen of commerce. Right now on msnbc debate discord. Donald Trump Holding firm this morning about not participating in tomorrows fox news debate. That decision coming after the network refused to replace megyn kelly as a moderator. Trump says she is biased and treats him unfairly. With me theyre dealing with somebody thats a little bit different. They cant toy with me like they toy with everybody else. So let them have their debate and lets see how they do with the ratings. And i told them, i said, give mone