mayor pete moving ahead there. we have a south carolina poll out today that shows joe biden once again doing extremely well there. this is such a fluid, exciting race on the democratic side. >> you see mayor pete jumping up, he's at 25% in iowa. and south carolina, he's big in joe biden. we'll get into that in a moment. but let's begin today kick off week two in public testimony in the impeachment probe. we'll get into who will be testifying in a moment, but first latest abc news poll shows where americans are now on this issue. 70%, 7-0, think the president's actions with ukraine were wrong. only 25% think they were not. among those who think his actions were wrong, 51% think he should be impeach and removed from office. 6% think he should be impeached and not removed from office. and 13% think he should not be impeached or removed from office. and the new npr mayor rift poll out this more, 50% believe he should be impeached, 40% do not. 70% think it's unacceptable for a president to acc ask a foreign leader to investigate a political opponent. 22% say it's acceptable. 65% say now information that comes from the impeachment inquiry could not sway their position. 30% say it could. and 63% of people responding satis say they're following the news fairly closely as opposed to 37% who say they're not following closely or not at all. a lot of numbers, but basically 70% of the country think something is very wrong here. >> 70, 75%, which actually doesn't that undercut everything donald trump's been saying? >> yes. >> perfect call, perfect transcript. not a transcript, but if it were a transcript, perfect transcript. the american people are speaking out in a way that they usually don't in these polls. and they are saying it is wrong for him to try to use his influence to start an investigation in a foreign country of a political opponent. that's pretty straightforward. and there's nothing donald trump can tweet about or say in speeches that will change that one bit. americans have decided their president let them down. now the question is, whether it's impeachable. >> and it may point to, elise, why you see the republican argument morphing to, yeah, i didn't love this. this wasn't great. i don't think as a general matter presidents should trade political dirt for military aid but i don't think he should be removed from office. that seems to be where republicans have moved. there's no credible, with all the witnesses we've heard, the witnesses we'll hear from today, there's mo more to say this thing didn't happen and they're just saying on the republican side he shouldn't be removed from office for it. >> you're seeing the strategy of the republican defense, phase one process argument, comblapla about the process which is always a loser because americans don't care about a process argument. they shifted to, two, oh, it wasn't first hand, it's so far removed. >> hear say. >> third -- >> lindsey graham's new definition of whether hearsay evidence is admissible or not. that was fun for the senate judiciary chairman to hear him rewrite that. >> lasted for a bit. and then you have one of the ambassadors aides in ukraine bring up well actually i was hanging out with gordon sondland in a restaurant in kiev and i'm just going to -- i always am trying to say -- i'm thinking skeeve now that we all pronounce it kiev. i know it's kiev, but -- >> kiev is in the ukraine, all right. there you go. >> so you've got gordon sondland holding the phone out from his head because donald trump speaks to loud, which you might be able to testify to. >> loud talker. >> loud talker on the phone. and so now we've landed at the third line of defense, which is, yeah, this all might have happened but it really wasn't that big of a deal and we can't impeach in an election year, one more year, just vote him out of office. >> you know, if republicans have been smart from the very beginning, of course that's a big if, they would have just jumped to the end saying, yeah, it's really bad what he did, really bad, but it's not an impeachable offense. but, guy, we've gotten to the point where there is that drip, drip, drip day in and day out where republicans set up a straw man, it gets knocked down the next day. they set up another straw man, knocked down the next day. americans have been seeing this over the past month now and it's having a rhee impact in the president's approving ratings. you dig into the numbers every day as much as anybody in america about what this will mean politically in the 2020 races. now, when you look at those numbers, i'm curious what you think about the 30% that say they can still be swayed about the impeachment evidence. where is that going to play out in 2020, not just in the presidential race, but also in the senate and the house races? >> so interestingly enough, one of the most relevant things from the abc poll was the fact that 21% of americans said that they made their mind up about impeachment after the first week of hearings. and of those americans, 6 out of every 10 said they favored impeachment and removal from office. so here you have 1 out of every 5 americans saying they paid attention. and of those, 60% said they favored impeachment but impeachment and removal. i think it's a troubling sign, and it rebuts this idea that the hearings didn't have enough pizzaz or they weren't interesting enough. you know, 58% of americans say they are following the hearings somewhat or very closely. and, by the way, i expect some of the most combustible testimony is still yet to come. and we've seen that from the transcripts that have been released and certainly i think everybody is waiting for ambassador sondland's hearing because i think it will reveal much more about the nature of what happened in ukraine. >> guy's point about witnesses still to come, lieutenant colonel vindman today will be a powerful witness. couple more powerful witnesses. but the numbers alone that we've been talking about here this morning, the 60% or 75%, whichever number with you pick in terms of people of let's impeach him and let's impeach him and remove him, that's done in the president who have flooded the field each and every day with lies. and people have fought through the lies and said, no, he's got to go. >> when you look at the fact they are not only saying impeach him but remove him when you get to the republicans' argument, it doesn't rise to impeachable, he may have done it, the public has gone beyond that because they said remove him. which means they say, yes, it is impeachable and removable. that's one. i think, secondly, as you're right, when we see the real witnesses coming on this week that could really in my opinion put the nail in the coffin starting with today, going on to sondland, i think that those numbers will increase and put real pressure on the republicans facing re-election. i do think, though, that we may be misunderstanding lindsey graham when he says his hearsay, what he meant to say is the witnesses say they heard him say it on the speaker phone. it was hearsay, they heard him say it and i think they testified to that. >> well even now that's the case, it's lindsey's new defense i think it was aristotle who said see no evil, hear no evil, say no evil. he's covering -- he just does not want to know anything. it's really -- >> won't read the transcripts. >> not gonna do it. not gonna do it. so, willie, i do think it's telling. one of the frustrating things for me, and i think for a lot of us this past week, is you've had people talking about how -- some people saying early on that these hearings weren't compelling enough. i think there is compelling and thoughtful and important as any hearings we've in had in a very lopping time in washington, d . long time in washington, d.c. but secondly, they say you know how it's going to end. you never know how a trial is going to end. you never know how hearing like this is going to end. if that was the opinion back in late '72, '73, we never would have gotten to the tapes. nixon would have never been forced to resign for his crimes. in this case are look at the polls, 70% of americans say what donald trump did is wrong. 70%. only one in four think what he did was okay. that means all donald's lies, all of donald's tweets, all of donald's witness intimidation, all of donald's abuse of people who work for him, all of it is being ignored by a good chunk of his supporters. i mean, he's got like 40 two%, 43% approval rating. 70% of americans say, donald, what you have done is wrong. >> yeah. >> and that, i think, i think everybody should just hold their fire and we actually let the evidence play out before people make their declarations that nothing's going to come of this. >> i guess the question is, what is the evidence that would turn -- let's take ron johnson for example. some of these republican senators who are so far down the road with donald trump that ron johnson is sending out a letter yesterday beginning to attack the credibility of colonel vindman in preparation for today's testimony. >> what a sleazy move that is. that's really gross. i always talk my father. my dad was a nixon guy. he always believed that everybody was out for nixon from the very beginning, since alger his. he supported nixon until just about the very end. but the tapes came out, and i always talk about this, i remember as a young kid having my dad -- watching my dad read the newspaper and say in this man has done half of what this says, then he's unfit to occupy any office. he's a disgrace. so you never -- again, maybe there's no smoking gun. maybe there are no tapes. maybe people like ron johnson will never be moved. but if you were attacking an iraqi war hero, i really don't care what you think about anything. if you're putting -- if you're putting the defense of a corrupt man who has no respect for the president of the united states above the honor of an iraqi war hero who won a purple heart, a lieutenant colonel who still serves his country, then you're opinion is irrelevant to me and think to most good americans. but, again, we don't know what will turn them. maybe nothing will. but we play it out, right? >> well, see, we've been talking here this morning and you were just addressing it. you're talking about the "a" lead of this story, the impeachment, the testimony, everything that the public is listening and absorbing. but there's a "b" lead that is just as critical. and i'd like to ask you about the "b" lead. and the br"b" lead is this. what happens to the republican party who have blindly defended this president when he's been morally repulsive, legally repulsive? what happens to the republicans on this committee, the republican party in general in the aftermath of this? >> well, i mean, i think the reality is throughout this whole process what we've seen is that the republican party continues to move are the goal post for what is acceptable behavior. i don't think it's going to be easy to retain or regain some sort of sense of code or honor inside the republican party. look, they spent an entire year defending a presidential candidate that attacks a war hero from vietnam. they attacked gold star parents. they protected him the entire way through that campaign. so why would we expect them to behave any differently now that he's president of the united states? the senate has continually showed that they are a donald trump defense fund. they are not an independent branch of government. they basically take orders from this president, they do exactly what he wants them to do, and they do not care about the consequences, all because they think they're going to get a couple of judges on the court, they think they can overturn roe v wade and drive down taxes for the very rich. all of this is in service of those things. they have shown and demonstrated, we've talked about this before, the way they deal with it they say behind closed doors republicans in the senate are very concerned. if the vote for impeachment was a secret vote. you don't get an award for honor and conduct because you decided do things differently publicly than behind closed doors. i'm tired of them getting credit for all of the concern that they show about statements. the reality is, the republican party has lost any moral compass and they've done it all in service of a man that's doing real harm to the country and our future. >> we have two witnesses scheduled today, four witnesses in total. we'll be on air a little longer this morning to get into the first one at 9:00 eastern time. top ukraine expert on the national security council alexander vindman and top russia aide to vice president mike pence, jennifer williams. both officials are expected to challenge president trump's claim that his july 25th phone call with the president of ukraine was, quote, perfect. williams characterized it as politically motivated, unusual, and inappropriate. vindman said he was so concerned that the call would undermine national security he reported it to the nsc's top lawyer. the president has attacked both witnesses as never trumpers but as we mentioned the latest attack on vindman is coming from senator ron johnson. in a letter to jim jordan and devin nunes dated yesterday he writes this. a significant number of bureaucrats and staff members within the executive branch have never accepted president trump as legitimate and recent his unorthodoxed style and i trution on to his turf. they react by leak together press and participating in the ongoing effort sabotage his policies and if possible remove him from office. it is entirely possible that vindman fits this profile written by senator -- >> that is just so offensive. i mean, so offensive. our former republican party, can you believe that? that he is -- this wisconsin senator, this republican senator from wisconsin is smearing a lieutenant colonel who -- who came to this country what? from the soviet union, i think. >> yeah. >> family escaped the soviet union. has served honorably in our military. his son's served honorably in our military. an iraqi war hero. so this is -- let's just stop -- let's just stop at this moment. at this moment, what's today? it's november 19th, 2019, it's 6:16 a.m. on the east coast. let's just stop at this moment. we've wondered how low the republican party would go, elise, our former party would go to defend donald trump. and i think -- i think we're getting close here. we have a senator from wisconsin who is smearing an iraqi war veteran. an iraqi war hero. an iraqi war hero who won a purple heart. that's how low we've gotten today. >> and iraq war hero who was so distinguished at his job he was detailed to the national security council as a subject matter expert. let's keep in mind the men and women who end up at the national security council from the various agencies as so many republicans are defaming them as part of the, quote, deep state, it is prestigious. it is difficult. it is the pinnacle of a career in service to serve at the national security council, to be on the vice president's staff as a national security adviser. these people are really well established and have strong credentials to even be in these positions. and, yes, you see where it doesn't matter what your service to your country has been, you can be literally wounded in battle -- >> right. >> -- and yet if you don't fall in line with the cult, you are a traitor. >> but this gets to what guy was just speaking to. the rest of the republican party. the rest of the republican members of the united states senate. >> yeah. >> we have lieutenant colonel vindman, when he appears today in uniform, the top of his chest is a combat infantry badge that he wears. that's the ultimate that you get if you're in service to the country because it means you risked taking a bullet for your country. you risked your life for your country, which he did. and now senator johnson from wisconsin speak the way he's speak about him, maligning him, smearing him. where are the rest of republicans in the senate to stand up? i mean, all this talk when you speak to them, joe, you know this as well as anyone off the record they say this guy's an embarrassment, he terrible. speak up. speak loudly. >> and they can't do it now. but of course they can't do it now, because remember, donald trump, a guy that got how many? five deferments? guy who claimed his dadly took him to a vip doctor to get him a bone spur deferment, and on the day that donald trump graduated from his ivy league college, it was 40 young americans died while this guy was playing tennis and golf and chasing women during college. and he, he and his republican sycophants spent years guiding us through 9/11, a man who's knees that were so bad he actually unlike donald trump who was working to get out of it, he had to rehab himself so he could go fight in vietnam, a guy who was a war hero in vietnam and did remarkable things on the battlefield and was awarded medals for that honor. i mean, this is the new republican party. you smear and slander the best among us. you smear and slander american heroes. you smear and lander gold star mothers. you smear and slander all those that have given their all to this country. all in the defense of a man who spent most of his life giving the democrats to hillary clinton eight times, like to -- i mean, i could go down the list, anthony weiner, elliot spencer, it goes on and on and on. this is really who they're selling their soul for. i'll just never understand it. now they're smearing american war heroes. by the way, he went to a war that they voted for. >> right. >> that they pushed america into. >> i think the big picture is also what you raised, and we need to stop at this moment and look at the fact that these people have said, don't believe anybody that be says anything against donald trump. you know, we realize you and i that have fought out here in the public space for a while, you're going to have people oppose you. so don't listen to an al sharpton, he's got to have an angle, there's got to be something in it from him. don't listen to joe scarborough borrow, , he comes from the south. but now you have a war hero who has said and done everything right and you start to malign him? so at what point does americans say anybody that zdisagrees wit you, no matter how many medals they've had on their chest, no matter how much they've served that country, if they disagree they are whatever you want to call them all on behalf a guy who you and i know had miraculous bone spurs that grew him two inches according to the last medical example, these are miracle bone spurs that just grow as he sits in that seat. and if you don't believe it you turn on today and watch the hearings as they talk about how this man can make deals and can risk national security but he did it for your own good. now send a dollar to my paypal account. that's what we're dealing with. we've seen rogs like this befue before, you and i have. >> we have. it's amazing how these republicans in 2019, everything is defined around what donald trump says it is. they report balanced budgets, no more. now the party of the biggest national debt in the history of the republic. they're the part party of free trade, no more. they were the party that opposed socialism, no more. now they're applauding as donald trump is giving cruagriculturald industrial interests $16 billion. and we used to fight against russian aggression. no more. you invaded you cranukraine, ta rest of it. it's not even a real country. these are the sort of things no republican would ever allow a democrat to say such a thing. the arms services committee, served four terms. fired one democrat -- if anybody heard one democrat say that over those four terms, they would have been eviscerated. now donald trump says it, republicans are fine with it, that settles it. >> that's just the conservative hypocrisy. how about the fact that there's a white nationalist in stephen miller sitting at the hand of the president. not a peep from republicans about that even though we saw 900 emails proving that. the thing i come back do with all these guys is what are you getting out of the deal? what is ron johnson getting out of putting his credibility and his represent pietation out there to slur this man, this colonel vindman who's won a purple heart in iraq? he's not up for re-election until 2022. do you think if you hang in long enough you will be the first person that donald trump is loyal to? that you will finally be the one that finally gets something out of the deal? no one ever gets anything out of the deal. you get pushed under the bus. mike pompeo is finding that out this morning. everyone learns eventually you try please the master, eventually he pushes you away. you get nothing out of the deal except giving up all of your credibility. >> no one ever has. >> ever. still ahead, that story about mike pompeo claims he supports men and women of the state department. marie yovanovitch among others would disagree. that story just ahead. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ead. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. without my medication, my small tremors would be extreme. without it, i cannot write my name. i was diagnosed with parkinson's. i had to retire from law enforcement. it was devastating. one of my medications is three thousand dollars per month. prescription drugs do not work if you cannot afford them. for sixty years, aarp has been fighting for people like larry. and we won't stop. join us in fighting for what's right. audrey's on it. eating right? on it! staying active? on it. audrey thinks she's doing all she can to manage her type 2 diabetes and heart disease but is her treatment doing enough to lower her heart risk? 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beyond fast. joe biden says that if elected he will not legalize marijuana federally because he thinks it might be a gateway drug. that's correct, it's a gateway drug to not getting the democratic nomination for president. >> so joe biden ae's dominance south carolina polls continues in the latest poll. the former vice president is in first place with 33% of the support. elizabeth warren and bernie sanders follow with 13% and 11% respectively. mayor pete is in single digits with 6% along with tom steyer at 5% and andrew yang at 4%. and, guy, man, we are -- these -- it's early. we'll always say it's early until -- i always think it's early until it's tw24 hours befe they election. but we're starting to see this field form. mayor pete coming on very strong in iowa. new hampshire is still a battle. but, man, joe biden is the teflon man, teflon joe? south carolina. he stays in the 40s there no matter what. what's going on? >> well, first of all, i think one of the most important things is we don't see other candidates eating into joe biden's lead among black voters in south carolina. there are huge drastics within the democratic party as it relates to the caucus and primary season that i think are starting to show themselves. although joe has stabilized in iowa and new hampshire, both of those states are predominately white and they tend to be more liberal inside of the caucus and primary. whereas, south carolina is a much more diverse state. don't forget we have the nevada caucus in between those. think it's reflective of where we see the race. the most important thing is that i think joe biden has stabilized his race. there was a lot of talk about his decline and whether he would have the money and whether his support would stick with him. across all of these states we've seen him hold pretty strong in place over the last couple of weeks, which is really critical for him. but going back to your point, over 50% of primary and caucusgoers still say they're open to changing their mind. among second choice voters say they're relatively even between all of these particular races. i still believe we're going to see a lot of change, more change between now and the iowa caucus than we have so far this year. >> so we talk about it all the time, mike, black voters in south carolina, 44% support joe biden. that remains the wall that mayor pete is going to have to break through if he wants to become the democratic nominee. because south carolina is extremely important because it actually, it is the demographic breakdown of what follows for the rest of the primaries. especially a few days later on super tuesday when you yhave a lot of deep south states, texas. if joe biden hangs if for south carolina and wins, say he wins it comfortably, super tuesday suddenly looks very good for him. you get 40% of democratic delegates award on that one day. >> as guy just pointed out, there's a real resilience in joe biden's strength out there. and it props him up, you know, his campaign was listed as dead, al, about a month ago, you know, kia, gone. but, no, he's still here, still strong? certain aspects. one of the more interesting aspects out there, and it's anecdotal thus far, is what is going on with elizabeth warren and her campaign since her explaining her health care plan, one the cost of it, and then well, maybe three years into my first term we'll get to it. that seems to have peaked some interest in taking a look at her among voters. >> i think when you get on the main stage and they put the lights on and you start really looking at them, that's the problem. i think that some people began looking at the coast of what she was proposing and went another way. on the other issue, though, with joe biden, what has been very interesting to me is that they -- none of the candidates have been able to sell black voters, according to the polls, on why they should leave joe biden. and that is demonstrated by he has maintained through all of the ups and koudowns eerthd poa polling, he still has all the black voters. we're having this big bereakfas and four or five of the candidates are coming, buttigieg is one of them, they've got to give an argument to black americans. why would they walk away from obama's vice president and someone we know? the worst thing they can walk away from into this super tuesday is well, i'm the candidate that whites will vote for but blacks and browns don't want me. that is not a footage victory. >> path to victory. >> i'll keep going, i won't talk about the republican party. rev, so early on kamala's team, cory's team thought they were going to do well in south carolina, thought they were going to do well in the deep south because of the number of black voters in the democratic primary. somebody told me very early on kamala had a pac-10 sec strategy, going to win on the west coast, going to win in the deep south. why -- why -- what's stopping kamala and cory from really making gains in south carolina and across the deep south? >> i think that you can't take black votes for granted just because you're black. when i ran in '04, this was in the first election after 9/11, i had to struggle to get to double digits because you had to give a rationale as to why you were running. a lot of people assume black candidate you're going to win. that's not true. they're not even in double digits in the polls. you have to address black issues, you have to do that because we have specific concerns, you've got to also show that i am who i am, authenticity. that i'm for real and that i can manage this country and be myself and i'm not repackaging myself. i think they've tried to do that, but i don't think they've successfully been able to communicate that to the voters. >> as the rev mentioned mayor buttigieg in this new poll, he has less than 1% support among black voters. he's on the level of people that statistically don't even register for black voters. he's got a problem going into south carolina. guy, let me ask you about usa, the new analysis you did updating spending on facebook and google ads compared to president trump in this race. tell us about it. >> i think there's been a lot of attention on the work that the trump campaign has been doing. they have spent tens of millions of dollars on raising money and selling pumpkin-themed mega hats and plastic straws and collecting emails. but a lot of that work hasn't been done in the battleground states. and that's really where we've been focusing. over the past five months, priorities have outspent donald trump in wisconsin, florida, pennsylvania, michigan on turning out voters in the off-year elections. and we've seen them move since the 2016 election and we saw it a couple weeks ago in virginia and pennsylvania and kentucky. so it's an area that we're -- that we're really focussed on while donald trump is raising money in california and illinois and new york online. and, you know, we want to make sure that democrats are focused on both turning out democratic voters who didn't participate in 2016 and to make sure we're talking to suburban and exurban to build the strongest coalition possible. and that's why we're committed online to make sure we have that coalition. >> we saw that trend in louisiana the other night as well. always good to see you guys. thank you so much. come williing up, our next argues that if you compare kurt volker's testimony to that of other witnesses, it appears he may have lied to congress. we'll explain next on "morning joe." congress. we'll explain next on "morning joe." ♪oh there's no place like home for the holidays.♪ ♪for the holidays you can't beat home sweet home.♪ we go the extra mile to bring your holidays home. i didn't have to call 911.help. and i didn't have to come get you. because you didn't have another heart attack. not today. you took our conversation about your chronic coronary artery disease to heart. even with a stent procedure, your condition can get 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hearing we'll hear from the special envoy to ukraine kurt volker as well as tim morrison, a former white house national security official. morrison's testimony would help to confirm trump's effort to orchestrate the quid pro quo with ukraine. he previously testified that eu ambassador gordon sondland had told the ukrainian official that military assistance probably would be unfrozen if the government announced investigations into democrats. morrison also listened to trump's july 25th phone call with the president of ukraine and thought it could be damaging to u.s./ukraine relations. as for kurt volker, he was the first witness to testify in the impeachment probe. he denied participating in an effort to pressure ukraine, but text messages showed had he talked to ukrainian officials about launching investigations in exchange for a meeting with president trump. according to the "new york times" he's expected to tell lawmakers he did not realize others in trump's orbit were tying aid to investigations of democrats. >> he can't make that argument. >> puts himself in knots there. >> i think he needs to refresh his recollection and take another shot at it. because going halfway is not going to cut it. >> making standing in front those cameras and raising his right hand will change his mind. we have ryan goodman here. he recently took an in-depth look at some discrepancies between volker's previous testimony to other statements. what did you find in here because in morrison and volker we have two men who say they heard a quid pro quo effectively but didn't believe that that was an impeachable offense in the case of morrison. what did you find with volker? >> so volker's got a lot of vulnerability, not just his credibility, but looks like lying to congress. and there are 11 other officials that basically contradict his story. i think one of the greatest areas in which he's vulnerable is this july 10th meeting where sondland says we want you to investigate for you to get a white house meeting. that's when bolton goes ballistic. fiona hill testifies bolton doesn't want to be part of this drug deal. she said he was furious. and vindman as well, he says the same thing occurred, va biden and burisma was mentioned in this meeting the who else was? kurt volker. and kurt volker didn't mention the july 10th meeting with congress. then when they asked him about it in his deposition he says, oh, it was just a meeting that fell flat. it was a missed opportunity. and then they say specifically were investigations mentioned? and he says no. he's in deep trouble on that one. he's in deep trouble on another one. he says the idea of getting the ukrainians to make a statement was something that he, kurt volker, stopped that from happening in mid to late august. george kent says, no, it was going on after that because they were trying to get president zelensky in the cnn interview. >> right. >> and that went well into late september. so he's got a number of things that are actually very concrete and contradicted by extraordinarily incredible witnesses on other side. >> so how does he clean this up? the deposition, the lawyer takes you out and the witness needs to -- and i comes back he comes cleans up the perjured testimony. can he do something to clean it up so he doesn't end up going to jail like so many of donald trump's other associates? >> it's not going to be pretty because it's hard to clean all of it up. >> jail's actually ugly. but how do you -- how does volker, if he doesn't want to have charges brought against him for lying to congress, how does he clean this up? >> i think the easiest way to be candid and very forthcoming and then he can try to excuse himself, but he has to be candid what lines up with everybody else's testimony. he can do a little bit of a gordon sondland move, which is to say now my memory being refreshed by seeing what others have testified to, so now i now can tell you, yes, there was a quid pro quo. i hadn't thought of it before, now i think of it. he can also say, i've also just greater visibility. now that everybody has testified, i can see what else is going on, i now know that this was connected. >> yeah. >> but even that's a little bit troubling for him. it doesn't get him ought the way out. but i think it will satisfy congress. >> he needs to cooperate. >> let me ask you about volker because i know a good number of people who have worked with him and like him very much and are surprised to see him in this position. what i had always thought of volker reading through this process, not regarding the lying to congress, but just in general, trying to push this along because he knew how important it was for ukraine to get the aid. and that was his goal. he wanted putin pushed back. and so he was willing to play fast and loose to get that done. does that line up with the volker that you know? >> kurt volker had an impeccable -- he really had a great reputation during the bush administration. and my first initial read was that kurt volker was just trying to placate rudy, was just trying to deal with the nonsense that came with all of the donald trump package in order to actually achieve a foreign policy deliverable. but now he really is in a pickle. because if i'm going to testify today, my first priority's going to be to clean up the discrepancies. and yet republicans seem to have this hope that kurt volker is going to vindicate donald trump and strengthen donald trump's case. and do you see the likelihood of that? of kurt volker presenting information that is favorable to the republican calls here? >> i think it's very hard. and i totally agree with joe, i think that's what he was up to. he was trying to stabilize the situation with ukraine and therefore he's kind of like working with the ukrainians, let's just try to meet donald trump's demands and then everything can come back into place. but i think he has to be forthcoming. it's overwhelming evidence against him. i just don't see how he actually ends up helping the republicans. if he tries to stick to his former testimony, i think he also undermines the republican position because it will crumble. he has no credibility with the former testimony. there's just so many data points and specific information that contradicts what he told congress originally. and, you know, just to refresh ourselves, he's the first witness that went before congress so he didn't know what was coming. that's why i think he left himself so vulnerable, potentially that's why did he it. and now with everything else that we have and all of the testimony being public, i don't see how if he tries to stick with what he said originally, it won't work. >> and had those text messages came out, willie. >> yeah. >> he was exposed. >> it was all out there. >> sondland was exposed, everybody was exposed. >> as ryan said, volker has testified the effort to get ukraine to make an announcement about the investigations ended in mid-august. we know that interview was on the books for cnn was in mid-september and canceled only when the whistle-blower report came out. a lot of holes in his testimony. we'll see if he stands by it today around 2:00. coming up on "morning joe," there's no reporting that undercuts the claim from the president's defenders that ukraine's president never felt pressured to investigate the bidens. remember president trump saying zero pressure? there's a problem with that. we'll tell you about it next. >> it's a lie? what a shock k. any comments doug? yeah. only pay for what you need with liberty mutual. only pay for what you need with liberty mutual. con liberty mutual solo pagas lo que necesitas. only pay for what you need... only pay for what you need. liberty. liberty. liberty. liber♪y ♪ ♪ experience the power of sanctuary at the lincoln wish list sales event. sign and drive off in a new lincoln with zero down, zero due at signing, and a complimentary first month's payment. t-mobile's newest most 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last night moderating a panel at the paley center across the street here about the 50th anniversary of abby road. >> good, good, the people at the paley center were very kind to invite me over there. so we interviewed peter brown who was to my right there. but peter brown was the beatles -- he said he was their personal assistant, peter brown. but he was so much more than that. he was a member of the family. he was best man at john's wedding, best man at paul's wedding. peter asher, the great peter asher next to him, of course, who is a remarkable recording artist, a good friend of paul mccartney's from the very beginning. they told incredible stories about the beatles, incredible stories about abby road and 1969. we also have max weinberg. max was great. and rob, rolling stone, he's sort of rolling stones' expert. and there we were doing what ever band wants to do, follow the beatles. that was a lot of fun. >> did you play beatles songs? >> yeah. what we did was -- what we did was since peter brown was there we played and i told them i could never do that because i'm a baptist and i go, christ, you know what i need, as john lennon said, in america you can't say christ unless you're wearing a collar. but peter brown gave me, you know, gave me permission do it. >> that's a lot of pressure, though, playing beatles songs from the guys who created the beat zblls here beatles. >> i said this is all sing along. so i required them to sing asblo along. >> it was very cool. they're great history. just like ringo, the best part is, wonderful, wonderful guys. >> it is okay to meet your heroes sometimes. >> it is. especially in this case. same with ringo, wonderful, you know. paul was nice when i met him for five seconds. i passed out, of course. but, yeah, they're nice guys, which is pretty incredible. they've been torn to shreds for 50 years by people. >> yeah. >> can't walk down the street. i just -- you know, as i get older i want to apologize to their children. i just want -- i say on behalf of the billions of beatles fans, i apologize to you. because it's just what a burden. everything's so exciteding, win can't walk across the street. >> and paul mccartney carries himself in a way that's generous with everybody and reaches out. >> yeah. >> i heard a story from a guy who was a producer on colbert show. he's playing on our show, i'm going to go out and talk to him. paul mccartney says take my cell phone number, i've got to go out and he was like what? and he called him and they talked for 30 minutes. >> paul's a decent guy. i met him and he's just a straight nice guy. >> you can always tell, actually, can't you? we've learned it here too, you can always tell who had good parents. >> absolutely. >> i'm dead serious. you can tell who had good parents and taught everybody, doesn't matter who you are, treat people well. >> yes. >> amen to that. coming up on morning joe, speaker nancy pelosi and house democrats are sharpening the rhetoric as we prepare for more public testimony in the impeachment probe. as "the new york times" put it, quid pro quo is out, extortion and bribery are in. we will talk to congresswoman and vice chair of the democratic caucus katherine clark about that ahead on "morning joe." we're back in one minute. that ahead on "morning joe." we're back in one minute. - [spokeswoman] meet the ninja foodi pressure cooker, the best of pressure cooking and air frying now in one pot, and with tendercrisp technology, you can cook foods that are crispy on the outside and juicy on the inside. the ninja foodi pressure cooker, the pressure cooker that crisps. state department is fully supportive of not only what we've done but our ukraine policy moving forward. >> but no defense your employees? >> i always defend the employees. it's the greatest diplomatic court in the world. proud of the team. >> i'm curious if you think ambassador taylor has been effective in that policy and if he's going to remain in his job or if the president has lost confidence in him. >> state department is doing a fantastic job. think we've deliver in a way that the obama administration has not delivered on ukraine. >> and when ambassador yovanovitch was on the hill on friday the president made a tweet saying that everywhere she went turned bad. is that an assessment you agree with? >> i don't have anything else to say about the democrats impeachment proceeding. >> so he didn't learn that at west point, willie. i mean, you have a -- talk about leaving everybody behind, it's just what he did. he spoke in generalities and was more concerned defending the president who threatened a member of his team than actually defending a member of his team. >> yeah. we heard from ambassador yovanovitch who felt threatened physically but also her job felt threatened and she made appeals to the state department, never heard anything back, particularly from secretary pompeo. and by the way, we asked the question what are these people getting out of this. >> yeah. >> nbc reporting yesterday that donald trump has called mike pompeo in and said effectively get a hold of your people, all these people testified. how did you let this happen to me? how did you put bill taylor in place? these people are bad for me, where's your loyalty? there's a rift between pompeo and president trump according to nbc reporting and yet pompeo is going back in for more bites at the apple to please president trump. >> and this is the sort of thing, donald trump, the man doesn't understand government. the man doesn't -- i mean, the idiocy of him attack the secretary of state for not being able to control career diplomats who actually are professionals who actually have to play it by the book. it's just like jeff sessions, we're all laughing at jeff sessions for completely humiliating themselves this past week. i don't know a lawyer in america that would not have recused themselves were they under the same circumstance that jeff sessions found himself in in early 2017. he had no choice. >> funny how mike pompeo thinks that his fate will ultimately be different than jeff sessions too. when you look at how donald trump is now trying to throw mike pompeo under the bus for hiring and empowering career state department officials, it seems like his -- he is not going to be able to avoid the same fate as everyone else who attaches themselves with loyalty, unquestioning of donald trump. i'm reminded that pretty early on in the trump administration donald trump was asked by fox news about different ambassador posts. and at the time we didn't have an ambassador to south korea, when was important since he kept egging on kim jong-un. and donald trump said we don't know ambassadors in all these different posts, i can do everything. and i think donald trump genuinely believes that he doesn't need to have anyone around the world send itting to america's interests. >> they've always believed that, willie will willie. they've always believed that and it's caused a mess. donald trump embarrassed by kim jong-un yesterday. >> he thinks can he run the country unilaterally. we have "the new york times" column writing mike pompeo last in his class from west point in integrity. he has just violated one of the cardinal rules in military ethics and command. you look out for your soldiers. you don't leave your wounded on the battlefield. you certainly don't stand mute who you know a jeanne juniuniors being shot in the back. i can only assume pomp failed or skipped them all when you observe his could ywardly slimy behavior. i would never want to be in a trench with that man. attention all people, watch your own backs. trump, the cowardly bully is he probably would have backed down if pompeo showed some sunshinwo. but he did not attempt that because he wants to run for president after president trump. he took an oath to defend and protect donald j. trump and pompeo's own future political career above all else, and that's exactly what he's been doing. shame on him. that's tom friedman of "the new york times." >> we have pompeo doing that and ron johnson yesterday decided to attack an iraqi war veteran. to slime an iraqi war veteran in defense of donald trump. and in defense of doing something that 70% of americans now say was wrong. >> yeah, there's not much left to republicans to do in the messaging front. i mean, the easy answer here is to say that the logical rational answer for republicans is to say this happened, it's pretty bad, is but it worth impeaching this president from office? i don't think so. the president argued this didn't happen. american grand strategy? europe remains unchanged. our objections are a europe free and at peace. but his actions betray that objective. what marie yovanovitch alleged is disturbing. it's a smear campaign with the complicit ci complicity of the state department. >> that's chilling. >> it's a two-way street. why would state department officials put their necks out if they know that they're going to be left out to dry? >> noah races an importaises an point. i read the transcript about the ambassador discussing what happened when it was released of her testimony. but then there was something just so powerful about the ambassador standing up and describing what it was like. she had literally given an award to a ukrainian anticorruption activist who had had acid thrown on her. i believe eventually died. >> yes. >> and then she gets the call in the middle of the night saying you need to come home, it is not safe for you. and it's because of our own government that ambassador yovanovitch is not safe in ukraine. >> and what does donald trump say to the ukrainian president about the ambassador? >> bad news. >> she's bad news and we have things planned for her. what was the -- >> she's going to go through some things. >> she's going to go through some things. >> right. >> with this as a backdrop, it's beyond extraordinary. >> it's horrifying on a certain level. in some ways, even keel is chuck rosenberg on this network received pompeo, that he was a coward, that he lacked courage, that he had turned his back on what he had learned at west point. what we see here in some ways, joe, is -- we're at the bottom of leadership in our country on so many different levels. >> we've been there for a while, haven't we? >> we've been there for a while. >> we just keep getting lower, don't we? we see donald trump going lower and lower. again, at this point, i think everybody's saying we know who donald trump is. donald trump does not surprise us anymore. he is a man without -- who has a rotted moral core. he say man who will go as low as he needs to go to win. i stopped being shocked by donald trump about six months ago. it is the republicans that still have the capacity to just shock me to my core that they will trash an iraqi war hero in defense of this man who coward in front of an ex-kgb agent, who coward before white supremacists in charlottesville, did not want to offend them and had david duke saying how inspired he was by donald trump's actions in charlottesville. this is who ron johnson and the republican party is defending. >> it's almost as if donald trump's a super power, to use a marvel, is his ability to reyou'll have the character of folks who are around him. as soon as you get around him, you have to make a choice. you have to make a decision. who am i? who am i? what are my values? because he immediately reveals the level of one's integrity, decency and courage. and what we see all the time, what we've seen over and over again, he's surrounded by a bunch of feckless sycophants. >> we knew trump or ten, 11 years, willie i think you were here that morning, muscle band came out and i immediately said. >> that's it. >> this was like early december 2015, i said, listen, i've known the guy for a decade, but this sounds a lot like germany 1933. i could never vote for the man. boom, that was it. never vote for the man. never considered it once after that. and it's so strange, there were so many people like lindsey graham who were still opposed to him. and actually the worst he got, the more they moved his direction because the more he -- he got closer to power. >> yeah. it's an old -- >> it's just shocking. >> it's an old washington story about being attracted to power. but i'm not convinced, tom friedman makes the argument that mike pompeo's behaving this way because he wants to be president someday and he doesn't want to ali alienate the trump voters. does becoming president mean you have to act dishonorably? >> nikki haley thinks it does. >> or do american people respect honor? i give american people more credit than that. >> let's talk about nikki haley for a second. i've always respected nikki, but she actually said on cbs this past week that donald trump doesn't lie. that's just -- wham i supposed to do with that? what am i supposed to could with that? >> she's put you in a terrible position. >> no, no, she hasn't, she doesn't care what i have to say. let me muput it a different way what are you supposed to do with that? same with pompeo, who by the way, when pompeo was in congress, kind of liked the guy. you know why? because the beat on him -- the buzz about him was the same with me, which is don't even bother whipping them because they're going to vote the way they want to vote. tom stopped whipping me after about three months. he just came up to me, look, you're going to vote the way you want to vote. yeah, i am. that was pompeo's reputation. i had such high hopes for him because he was his own man in congress. >> yeah. same here. i generally, if i were to guess, and it is just a guess, the assumption that republicans who are looking to oppose trump are making is that the republican base will not want to repudiate donald trump. but nor are they going to necessarily want to emulate donald trump. so you have to strike a very tender balance and that's the balance that nikki haley is taking if she were to come out and say i disapprove of this policy or this other policy, it gives somebody more ammunition in the future to say you repudiated donald trump when you needed him most, your disloyalty is disqualifying. you have to look at the number of republicans who are behaving along the same lines as nikki haley. it's a fine line we're walking, which can be justice offputting in the moment. but it will serve nikki well in the future the look at how the republican party reveres richard nixon to this day. for his presidency. not the impeachment, they will take donald trump's presidency in whole, which means impeachment in one bucket and all the other good accomplishes that they like in the other and they'll be able to make that distinction. >> well, willie, the house impeachment investigators released a transcript from last friday's session? >> yeah, another important witness. the closed-door deposition from state department official david holmes. he's the man who overheard the july 26th cell phone call between u.s. ambassador to the european union gordon sondland and president trump when holmes joined sondland at a restaurant in kiev. according to the transcript, homes told -- >> by the way, can we have a real here, it's kiev, all right? >> thank you. everybody, it's e-kiev. i'm going to give you nevada. so we'll say nftevada. and if you come on the set and you want to a miami, it means you, there in the '50s and that's pretty cool. if you want to a miami, that's cool. but it's still kiev on the "morning joe." >> we're holding on ton kiev here. aid cording to t according to the transcript that was released, sondland said was going to call president trump to give him an update. he placed a call on his mobile phone and i heard him announce himself several times along the lines of gordon sondland holding for the president. holmes explained that while ambassador sondland's phone was not on speaker phone, i could hear the president's voice through the earpiece of the phone. the president's voice -- the president's voice was very loud and recognizable, testified holmes. and ambassador sondland held the phone away from his ear for a period of time presumably because of the loud volume. holmes testified that he heard sondland tell trump that he was in ukraine and he went on to state that president zelensky, quote unquote, loves your ass. holmes said he then heard president trump ask, quote, so he's going to do the investigation, unquote? ambassador sondland replies, he's going to do it adding that president zelensky will, quote, do anything you ask him to. holmes also told investigators that he then took the opportunity to ask ambassador sondland for his candid impression of the president's views on ukraine, in particular holmes asked sondland if it was true that the president did not give a blank about ukraine. and sondland agreed with that. holmes said, quote, sondland stated that the president only cares about, quote unquote, big stuff, which meant big stuff that benefits the president like the biden investigation that rudy giuliani was pushing. holmes said was added to the list of witnesses who will now testify publicly in the house impeachment inquiry and is scheduled to testify publicly on thursday. let's bring in white house correspondent for pbs news hour, yamiche. good to see you this morning. i guess the defense and i guess probably hearing from jim jordan if my guess is right, is that this remains hearsay, that this was secondhand from david holmes, that he heard it through the phone, how could you have heard it, you weren't on the phone, it wasn't on speaker phone. what other defense could possibly be put forward here? >> well, i've been counting republican defenses and they're up to at least 14 to 15 ways that they've tried to really show loyalty to president trump. and we've had to be nimble or adjust or change their defenses as they're doing this because the president continues to do things and they continue to learn about the president's behavior and have to really continue to change their message. but i think in this case they're going to say two things. one is that they're going to say it's hearsay and he wasn't on the phone with the president, that it was loud and maybe he overheard the conversation wrong. the second thing that this going to say is that this investigation wasn't putting undue pressure on ukraine. republicans have been saying and the president of ukraine is saying he didn't feel pressured. there are a lot of republicans who will say this is how foreign policy works. you ask for something, foreign governments do something and then you reward them with military aid. the issue hoere is the thing tht they're asking for is something to help president trump politically rather than to further u.s. national security. but i think it's going to be very interesting when david holmes testifies, but think what's going to be more interesting this week, even gordon sondland testifies. because there are some people who think gordon sondland is going to realize that he went a little too far and possibly say, look, i was just doing whatever the president told me to do. there's some republicans who want to make the case that gordon sondland went a bit too far and was out of realm of what president trump was hoping he would do. >> willie, they've already proven, have they not, we already have testimony that the ukrainians felt pressure, right? >> yes. yes. >> that the ukrainians felt pressure that they didn't want to do this, they didn't want to become embroiled in u.s. domestic politics but they knew they were forced to do it if they wanted the aid. another lie, they didn't even know about the military aid. thanned up bei that ended up being a lie as well. >> at the joint press conference with zelensky and president trump, he got zelensky to say i felt no pressure. even zelensky says no pressure. "the associated press" has reporting that shows otherwise. democrats may have evidence to contradict republican arguments that ukraine's president never felt pressured to investigate the bidens, two people with knowledge of the matter telling "the associated press" officials at the u.s. embassy in kiev, including then ambassador marie yovanovitch were told in early may that president zelensky was seeking advice on how to navigate the difficult position he was in. early may, remember the call was in late july. those two individuals said zelensky was concerned president trump and his associates were pressing him to take action that would affect the 2020 presidential race. state department officials in kiev and washington reportedly were briefed on zelensky's concern at least three times and notes summarizing his worries were circulated within the department. >> we're going to seep thos tho aren't we? >> yes. they show u.s. officials were aware that zelensky was feeling pressure to vieft biden even though the ukrainian leader late denied it in that news conference with president trump in september. the white house gets zelensky to go on camera and say i felt no pressure. documents show completely otherwise. >> why do they keep lying? it's like having a bunch of five-year-olds that have knocked over the cookie jar and you're asking -- they're all lying to you and it's on the floor, we're going to find out. i've got 12 video cameras in this kitchen. i'm going -- i mean, all of this is -- as they say in the good book. it will be -- what is whispered in our will be shout from the mountain tops. like these -- everything that was said we are going to read. shouldn't these people that are testifying understand that it's all -- it's throughout the state department? no one can hide this. and if they lie, well, they may have a cell mate who has a tattoo of richard nixon on his back. >> you do get the appearance of a cover-up is hard to ignore here, and that's also one of the reasons why this is so politically damaging. but had is all not consequence free. it's not like we're playing in the sandbox that only we see and it's all domestic politics. the consequences of this will be felt and america's position will deteriorate. when the ambassadors to the european union says that this new elected head of ukraine, very little domestic position will do anything we want him to do, what does that do to his domestic position? what does that do to his position vis a vis european negotiations or russia? we're undermining this ally we're trying to cultivate in these depositions and it's only going to get worse. >> we're undermining him. and, eddie, under mining a guy who many people believed would be the most reformed mine mind in ukraine, in a country that's been under attack by vladimir putin, also a country that our president says isn't really a country. >> what's revealed in the process is that donald trump's self-interest trumps the interest of the country. so to sell arms for dirt reveals that at the end of the day donald trump is for donald trump. and he happens to just simply reside at the white house. and we need to understand that for what it is. >> he had a lot of people helping him along the way. but, there are people who are willing to show that they did not help him along the way and a few of them will be testifying today. still ahead, house speaker nancy pelosi sharpening the focus of the second round of impeachment testimony in the house. katherine clark is standing by. she joins us next on "morning joe." k is standing by. she joins us next on "morning joe." when did you see the sign? 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yup. you can transfer your service online in about a minute. you can do that? yeah. and with two-hour service appointment windows, it's all on your schedule. awesome. so while moving may still come with its share of headaches... no kidding. we're doing all we can to make moving simple, easy, awesome. go to xfinity.com/moving to get started. live picture of the united states capitol. 7:26 in the morning in washington. the impeachment inquiry resumes about 90 minutes from now. house speaker nancy pelosi sent a memo to democratic colleagues yesterday in which she sharpened the focus of the impeachment probe in president trump's actions involving ukraine as, quote, extortion and bribery. pelosi said the facts are uncontested in her words, as trump abused his power for his own personal political benefit at the expense of our national security interests. the house speaker went on to argue that it would be, quote, dangerous to leave trump's fate to voters next year because the president is, quote, jeopardizing the ining at the gretty of the 2020 elections. joining us now, vice chair of the house democratic caucus katherine clark of massachusetts. congresswoman, good to see you. it sounds a lot like nancy pelosi is saying there you need to vote for impeachment. you need to vote yes on impeachment and that he must be convicted by democrats. in other words, saying we can't even let this get to the 2020 presidential election. how did you read that memo? >> i think that nancy pelosi has been consistent. let's put the facts before the american people. and the facts that we've heard are alarming. they show broad corruption from this president that does impact the integrity of the 2020 election. we have known from the beginning that this whistle-blower complaint demanded urgency. and that is how we are acting, putting those facts before the american people trying to get to the truth. and it becomes almost like an iceberg. we can see the president's actions on the surface, we know that he doesn't believe in telling the truth, we know that he works for himself. but what the testimony has shown us is that the iceberg is far bigger than we can see. and it is that vast corruption that we are trying to address and get to the bottom of and put those facts before americans so they can make a decision. >> so, congresswoman, you're saying the american people and members of congress need to weight evidence. but if you read this memo from speaker pelosi, she says it is dangerous to leave trump's fate to voters next year. isn't that telling you you must vote yes on impeachment at this point already? >> we have made no decisions about how this impeachment process ultimately will play out. but i can tell you that we are concerned. when you see ambassador yovanovitch talking about how worried and concerned she has become, the very threats to her. we're seeing career diplomat after career diplomat come and tell us -- and we have to take heed at what is at stake for our democracy. what is at stake for our constitution. and the picture they're painting is a stark one and a dangerous one. and i think that what the speaker is trying to highlight is that we have to pay attention to this. we can't just tune this out. this is going to fundamentals of who we are as an american people of what kind of democracy we're going fight for. and the abuse of power that is being set forth before us is really breathtaking. >> congressman, ja yamiche has a question for you. >> good morning. my question to you is this a packed schedule. i've heard from some republicans who think that the schedule has too many people on too days and people are going for overwhelmed by the information they've heard this week. but i've heard from democrats that this is a calendar about moving in an expeditious way. what you to make of how this calendar was set up and what are you trying to tell the american people with all these people this week? >> you know, the republicans have a new argument every day about why this isn't working for them because they don't have facts to contest. and i think that it is important that we do move with urgency. we do have an election less than a year away. we need to make sure that we are putting out exactly what happened, the abuse of power, the betrayal of our national security, the attack on the integrity of our 2020 election. you cra ukraine isn't a country that far away that many people would have a hard time pointing out on a map. it's showing us the corruption that exists in our own government. and those threats to our democracy are real. we have to move with urgency on this because we are beginning to see the picture of how dangerous this president and his administration is. how we have a state department that has sold out its own diplomats. that we have a secretary of state of energy who went over to ukraine and tried to get contracts for his own political donors. the stories, the narrative keeps coming out. and it is one that is pointing to the true danger that not only our constitution and fundamental values are, but really how this government operates and how we will continue to be an international partner. >> congresswoman clark, you made the argument earlier, the statement earlier that the republicans have invoked several different arguments. one of those arguments have been about the whistle-blower, that the whistle-blower should come forward. what do you make of that particular line of argument from your colleagues across the aisle about the process and about this particular investigation? >> so the whistle-blower did what whistle-blowers are supposed to do. be able to come forward and talk about corruption or misdeeds while protecting their identity so they don't lose their job or have other bad things happen to them, as the president promised with ambassador yovanovitch. and everything about that whistle-blower complaint has been corroborated by multiple witnesses. this is just another technique to bully, to intimidate people from coming forward. because this administration has tried to put barrier and blockade after blockade to getting to the truth, to getting this information into the public. and they know that that is starting to crumble with people who aren't partisan but are here to stand or our country and who are leading with patriotism. >> congresswoman, you saw that word bribery in the speaker's text there, the washington, d.c. reported last week that that language was widely adopted by the caucus only after some polling was done with focus groups in battleground house districts which found that it generated the most traction around voters. does it attorney you that poll testing messages around this could cheapen the process and politicize what is a dispassionate process? >> we don't need polls to tell us what's right and what's wrong. and what we have seen, the portrait that is being painted of the attacks from this president and those who are complicit with him against what we stand for as a country is -- is really shocking. and whatever the legal terms that we may use, bribery, extortion, they all are about an abuse of power and a betrayal of the american people and this president's oath of office. >> all right. vice chair of the house democratic caucus congresswoman katherine clark, thanks for your time this morning. we appreciate it. coming up next on "morning joe," the trump administration is planning another immigration crackdown with a new rule that targets asylum seekers. julia ainsley joins us with that new reporting next. julia ainsley joins us with that new reporting next. imagine a disease is caused by too much of a bad protein, but a company develops a way to actually attack it. what drew me to capital allocation in health sciences was the potential to help many people through investments that help fund medical innovation. my team and i often choose to invest at the very early stages of human trials. investing lets me use everything i've learned as a doctor to help make a positive impact. so that's why i go beyond the numbers. t-mobile's newest most powerful signal is here. experience it with the amazing, new iphone 11. and right now, t-mobile has the best deal on iphone. get 4 lines of unlimited with 4 iphone 11 included for only $35 a line. non-gmo, made with naturally sundown vitamins are all sourced colors and flavors and are gluten & dairy free. they're all clean. all the time. even if sometimes we're not. sundown vitamins. all clean. all the time. wwithout it, i cannot write myl tremors wouldname.xtreme. i was diagnosed with parkinson's. i had to retire from law enforcement. it was devastating. one of my medications is three thousand dollars per month. prescription drugs do not work if you cannot afford them. for sixty years, aarp has been fighting for people like larry. and we won't stop. join us in fighting for what's right. this seat sits at the center of the arena... this seat is for those who never get snowed in or washed out. those with the urge to plow, and carve and climb. who prefer momentum over gravity. but this seat is not for spectators. is your business still settling for slow internet? well time is money. switch to comcast business now and get a great deal when you get fast, reliable internet. with a 30-day money-back guarantee, installation when it works for you, and 24/7 customer support. so what are you waiting for? get this great deal when you sign up for fast, reliable internet. call 1-800-501-6000 today. comcast business. beyond fast. welcome back to "morning joe." trump administration's preparing to publish a rule that would send migrants to pass through guatemala, el salvador back to the states. it would allow the authorities to determine whether the three agreements that the u.s. has signed with those countries hay applies to the immigrants they vet. if they do, asylum seekers could be fast tracked for deportation back to guatemala, el salvador or honor dore trous climb asylum there. joining us now, julia ainsley. jew julia, reporting as always from the border. tell us about this new idea. is it a new idea and, if so, how different is it from what we've seen in the past? >> it's not a new idea but this is the first time we could see it in action. the outgoing former secretary of dhs spent the summer working on these deals with these three central american countries. but every time one would come out we would say okay now what? are with you going to send asylum seekers back to these countries? because as we know these countries are not set up, they don't have the legal systems and they're not safe enough to really be a safe harbor for asylum seekers that are passing through them. now they are codifying this and you a rule in the federal register that they'll publish today that will now allow them, allow asylum officers and immigration judges to determine whether or not asylum seekers don't need a bar here and should be spent e sent back. the bar here they would have to clear is to claim that they would fear torture if they actually returned under the categories against torture. but asylum is not enough. if they come here and claim what they call credible fear, this is the bar for asylum, they could be sent back. the country they're focusing on now is guatemala. as we understand from our reporting, as of last week, there were still dhs official who didn't know how this would work out. now you have a rule coming out today saying they will be fast tracked, put back on fleeplanes guatemala. the question is where and how it will be set up to help people start processing asylum sees in these countries? bas as we know, the countries they are fleeing are now the ones they'll be sent back to. it's just that they won't be sent back to their home countries, they'll be sent back to countries they simply passed through on their way to the united states. >> this is eddie glaude. i'm having a difficult time understanding this policy in the context of the email scandal of stephen miller. there's a sense in which immigration policy coming out of the trump white house has been tied to stephen miller who has been revealed to be a white nationalist, in my view. how, then, do we square this particular or separate this particular issue from how we understand stephen miller's ideology around immigration? >> it's hard to separate. if you think about stephen miller being someone who is so close to this president and someone who has been handpick the people who come in at the top of the department of homeland security, it is hard to separate the policies that are being published and pushed this time by the department of homeland security and the justice department from stephen miller. a lot of people are up in arms. i even talked to career officials, people who have served under republicans and democrats at the department of homeland security who are throwing up their arms and saying, people will die as a result of this. and for some reason, those voices aren't the ones being heard right now. >> julia, is this policy universally applicable? does it apply to eastern european mai migrants or chinese migrants or only these triangle states? >> it only applies to those coming through the trying an the states. that really goes back to the point this is the population that the administration wants to target. they see asylum seekers from central america as their biggest problem and they want to do anything that will deter them from coming here. so they've just been throwing rule after rule at this group trying to figure out what can make it through courts and what they can do to deter them. so essentially right now anyone who is coming from el salvador or honduras, would be sent back to guatemala. if you're someone who flies in from an eastern european state, if you're someone fleeing persecution or violence in the middle east, this doesn't apply to you. this is only central americans arriving at our southwest boarder. >> julia, the trump administration has had a mixed record at best when it comes to immigration policies, starting actually the first week of the white house. what's the -- what's the likelihood that this rule will make it through the courts and be ruled constitutional? >> that's a great question. i started asking some of the lawyers yesterday who have been at the forefront of challenging trump administration policies on immigration. and it looks like a lot of people are in a wait and see mode. they have to see how exactly this is implemented before they can go and file in federal court. we've seen a lot of times they wait until the first person is deported. but at this point, joe, it looks like they are ready to do this as soon as they publish. it's just a matter of whether or not these people are treated fairly, wether or not they go back to a place where they can get food and proper access to asylum. yes, there could be court hearings, there could be an injunction, they could put an emergency stay on that would hold off the bulk of the implementation. but it could also mean it is after your first 100, 200 people are sent back to a country that they don't know to claim asylum in a country that doesn't have processes in place to protect them. >> all right. you can read julia's full story at nbcnews.com. thanks so much. >> thank you. coming up this morning, president trump tweets see ya soon to north korean leader kim jong-un and essentially gets the door slammed in his face. the latest on possible talks ahead on "morning joe." >> sweet. ahead on "morning joe." >> sweet. 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cardiovascular event. are you doing enough? ask your doctor if it's time for xarelto®. to learn more about cost and how janssen can help, visit xarelto.com. so last week north korean state media went after former vice president joe biden describing him as a, quote, rabid dog. >> wow. >> president trump i wouldn't say defended him but he talked about biden in a tweet this past sunday writing, quote, mr. chairman, joe biden may be sleepy and very slow, but is he not a rabid dog. he's actually somewhat better than that. but i am only one that can get you where you have to be. you should act quickly, and get the deal done. you see soon, wrote the president. >> what a time to be alive. >> to which north korea essentially said no thank you. a senior adviser to north korea's leader called another potential meeting fruitless and saying we're no longer interested in such talks that bring nothing to us as we've got nothing in return, we will no longer gift the u.s. president with something he can brag about. >> noah. >> that's awesome. >> there was a time when the north koreans would beg american presidents for meetings. they get what they wanted. everybody said, donald, don't give them -- all they want is the meeting. don't give them the meeting up front. thought he knew better than everybody and, once again, was proven wrong. >> when this whole process started in 2017, kim jong-un had never been abroad. his first trip before the first meeting to beijing was a big moment for everybody in the international affairs community who were watching whether or no whether or not there would be stability at home. he has been to b beijing, singapore. he got the legitimacy and recognition he wanted and they were processing fuel, testing new engines, making bombs, and making a show in trying to make an effort to denuclearize. they got everything they wanted and the president got very little and he should recognize that he has been taken and show a little frustration with the north koreans and i think it would go a long way to express some frustration by how he was used. >> made a fool of. pompeo goes to visit, and kim jong-un won't even see him and he snubbed pompeo and now they snub the president of the united states and mock him. just like erdogan. he is killed kurds again. putin gets what he wants. it is constant. this guy is the worst negotiator ever. >> and because there is so much going on we didn't even cover that erdogan that brought back that letter. he needed to tell that to the turkish public to show that he is a strong man and he got his bump. >> what was really fascinating in that press conference was his effort to impugn democrats, whoever briefed erdogan on the president's grooeievances did a really good job, and they showed them. >> they go back to their home countries, turkey or kim jong-un mocking the president of the united states now, and they under cut his position and prove once again that this is a weak foolish president when it comes to foreign policy. >> it seems that foreign leaders have learned that president trump is about his personality and it is about pleasing him in the moment and questioning able to go back to their foreign countries and going forward with the policy that best helps that country. i was there when president erdogan was asked specifically about that letter that he basically ignored. he said don't be a tough guy. the letter that we thought was maybe even a hoax. and he sidestepped the question and praised the fact that he was great leader and doing a great job than president obama, and the president of turkey said i can ignore him as long as i praise him. as long as for the moment when i'm in the white house i can let him know i'm on his side and loyal to him. >> they all do what they want to do. and again you look how america has been weakened in the middle east. you look how putin was streng strengthenned in the middle east. you look at how they were strengthenned in ukraine. for him, for a man two believes the collapse of the soviet union was the greatest political tragedy -- saw the outbreak of world war i and ii. for putin to think that, his number one goal is to regain ukraine. russia is closer to that goal than they could have ever been without donald trump. it is hard to see anything that donald trump has dope as it pertains to rush russia. >> there is two intersecting things. we have known since the 2016 election is a series of folks around trump that reject the post world war two consensus. the second thing is donald trump believes that only he can fix it. >> you're being too easy on trump. this is more than just a world view about the boast world war ii consensus. he is actively helping vladimir putin in helsinki, in syria, in ukraine. there is nothing that vladimir putin wants to hear more than an american commander and chief saying ukraine is not a real country. >> from the end of the day we're from the south, they are playing him like a cheap fiddle. >> some of the people around the president that are conventional republicans have convinced him to seize territory, expel ambassadors, and give them javelin missiles. >> hopefully the republicans, you know who they can thank for those missiles going to ukraine? the whistle-blower. think about it, if the whistle-blower had not have outed the president he would not have sent him along. it is amazing this is a badly kept secret in washington. someone told us in early august, you need to look into the fact that the president is withholding military aid until they investigate biden. >> and the pillar of the white house and republican defense and we will hear it against this morning, is well they got the aid, they got at aid after the con was exposed. >> maybe the president should give the whistle-blower the presidential medal of freedom. >> that feels unlikely right now. >> it would be good investigation. >> it would be great television, and you have -- let's end where we started this hour. you now have republicans that are attacking a man who easterneasterrned a purple heart in iraq. >> and not in the deep chat rooms, it is in congress. still ahead. the president calls them without evidence never trumpers. democrats call them the next two witnesses. we'll lay out what to expect in that hearing room about one hour from now. from now we present limu emu & doug with this key to the city. 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[ applause and band playing ] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ non-gmo, made with naturally sundown vitamins are all sourced colors and flavors and are gluten & dairy free. they're all clean. all the time. even if sometimes we're not. sundown vitamins. all clean. all the time. still, if you're a republican, you only have two mores on a secret mission. the whistle-blowers account, notes from the call in was he mentions the bidens multiple times. the president's chief of staff confessing on tv. rudy giuliani -- i'm sorry that is not enough to convict. >> it is tuesday, november the 19th and with us we have mike barnacal. we have elise jordan, and reverend al sharpton and guy cecil and mika is out on assignment this morning, but really so much to talk about. and still thinking about iowa. we have mayor pete moving ahead there. a south carolina poll out today that shows joe biden once again doing extremely well there. this is such a fluid exciting race on the democratic side. >> yea, mayor pete jumping up, she havi he is having a lot of trouble with african-american voters. this is another week of the impeachment testimonies as well. 70% think the president's actions with ukraine were wrong. only 25% think they were not. among those that think his actions were wrong, 51% think he should be impeached and removed from office. and in the new npr poll out this morning, 50% belief the president should impeached, 43% do not. 70% think it is unacceptable for a president to ask a foreign lead tore investigate a political opponent. 22% think it is acceptable. 65% say new information that comes from the impeachment inquiry say it could not. and 63% say they are following it closely or fairly closely compared to 37% of people who say their not following it closely or not at all. >> yeah, 70% or 75%. doesn't that under cut everything he is saying. perfect call. if it were a transcript, a perfect transcript. and they're saying it is wrong for him to try to use his influence to start an investigation in a foreign country of a political opponent. that is pretty straightforward and there is nothing that donald trump can tweet about that will change that one bit. american's decided their president let them down. >> and the republican argument is morphing to yeah, i didn't love this. i don't think as a general matter the president should trade political dirt and military aid, but i don't think that he should be proved from office. there is no credible -- with all of the witnesses we heard from, there is no way any more to say this thing didn't and that it was okay. people are just saying i don't think he should be removed from office for it. >> you have seen the evolution of the strategy for the defense. phase one, process argument. it is always a loser. americans don't care about a process argument. they shifted to two -- oh, well it wasn't firsthand, it was hearsay. >> lindsay graham's new definition of whether or not hearsay evidence is admissible or not. and then you have an aid in you cre -- ukraine saying i was hanging out with gordon sondland in kiev. kiev is in the ukraine. okay. >> this all might have happened, but it wasn't that big of a deal. but we can't impeach in an election year. just vote him out of office. >> if republicans had been smart from the very beginning. that is a big if, they would have jumped to the end and said it is really bad what he did. it is not an impeachable offense, but flow is a drip drip drip. day in and day out. set up a straw man, it gets knocked down the next day. americans have been seeing this in the past month now and it is having a real impact in the president's approval ratings. you dig into the numbers every day as much as everybody in america about what it will mean in the 2020 races. i'm curious what you think about the 30% that think they can still be swayed by the impeachment evidence. where will that play out not just in the presidential race but in the senate and the house races. >> interestingly enough one of the most relevant things from the abc poll was the fact that 2 1% of americans made their mind up after the first week of hearings. and six out of ten said they y favored impeachment. and of those, 60% said they favored impeachment and removal. i think this is a troubling sign. and i think it rebuts the hearting that they were not interesting enough. they say they're following the hearings somewhat or very closely. and i expect some of the most combustible testimony is still yet to come. and we that from the transcripts yet to come, and i think it will hear more about the nature of what happened in ukraine. >> guy's point about witnesses still to come, lieutenant colonel vindman today is a powerful witness. but the numbers alone, the 60% or the 75% in terms of people -- lets impeach mement him, let's remove him. an enormous amount of people fought through the lies and they say no, he has to go. >> when you look at the fact that they're saying impeachment and remove him, saying it doesn't rise to impeachable, they have gone beyond that. they say yes it is impeachable and removable. i think eyou're right as we see the real witnesses coming on this week that could put the nail in the coffin starting on today and going on with sondland, i think the numbers will increase. i do think though that we may be misunderstandi ining lindsey gh. he meant to say that the witnesses heard him say it. and i think they testified to that. >> that is now the case, you know it is lindsey's new defense, see no evil, hear now evil, say no evil. he just does not want to know anything. we'll read the transcripts, we'll hear the testimony -- >> so willy one of the frustrating things is people were saying early on that these hearings were not compelling enough. and i think they're as compelling and thoughtful as we have had in a long time. but secondly, people say oh, you know, we doe nknow how it is goo end. you never know how hearings like this are going to end. nixon would not have been forced to reside for his crimes. 70% of americans say what trump did is wrong. only one in four think what he did was okay. that means all of donald's lies, tweets, witness intimidation, all of it is being ignored by a good chunk of his supporters. he has like a 43% approval rating. 70% say what you have done is wrong. i think everyone should just hold their fire and we let the evidence play out before people make their declarations that nothing will come of this. >> i guess the question is what is the evidence that would turn, let take ron johnson for example. some of the republican senators so far down the road with donald trump that ron johnson is sending out a letter beginning to attack the credibility of colonel vindman. >> and what a sleazy move that is. my dad was a nixon guy. he always believed that everybody was out for nixon from the very beginning. he believed they were against nixon for vietnam. they were against nixon for just about anything. and he supported nixon until just about the very end. the tapes came out and i remember talking about my dad reached newspaper and say if this man has done half of what this says, he is unfit to occupy any office, he is a disgrace. aga aga again, maybe there is no smoking gun, maybe there is no tapes. if you were attacking an iraqy war hero, i don't care what you think about anything. if you're putting the defense of a corrupt man who has no respect for the president of the united states above the honor of an ir iraqi war hero, who still serves his country, i think you're still -- >> another round of testimony is going to kick off just a short time from now. a preview next on morning joe. like job. when he was diagnosed with cancer, his team at ctca created a personalized care plan to treat his cancer and side effects. so job could continue to work and stay strong for his family. this is how we inspire hope. this is how we heal. we love you, daddy. good night. 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[ snoring ] [ loud squawking and siren blaring ] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ lashmakes every lash fullyrom maybsensational.ork. our fanning brush volumizes every kind of lash... ...for a sensational full-fan effect. lash sensational. only from maybelline new york. investment opportunities beyfirsthand, like biotech.ne because your investments deserve the full story. t. rowe price invest with confidence. let's talk about what we're going to see today. two hearings, four witnesses in total. we'll be on air a little longer this morning to get into the first up with. two officials were on the phone call to smart the impeachment inquiry. alexander vindman and jennifer williams. both officials are expected to challenge president trump's claim that the phone call with the president of ukraine was "perfect." ms. williams said that it was inappropriate. the president attacked both witnesses out any evidence as every trumpers, but as we mention the latest attack on vindman is coming from republican senator ron johnson. in a letter to jim jordan and devin nunez dated yesterday, senator johnson says a significant number of bureaucrats and staff members have never accepted president trump as legitimate and they don't like his style. they continue to sabotage his policies and try to remove him from office. it is entirely possible that vindman fits this profile. >> that is just so offensive. our former republican party, can you believe that? that this wisconsin senator, a republican senator from wisconsin, is smearing a lieutenant colonel who has served honorably. and let's just stop at this moment, and this moment and what is today. november 19th. we have wondered how low the republican party would go, our former party would go, to defend donald trump, and i think we're getting close here. we have a senator from wisconsin who is smearing an iraqi war veteran. an iraqi war hero that won a purple heart. that is how low we got today. >> and an iraqi war hero that was so distinguished that he was detailed to the national security council as a subject matter expert. let's keep in mind the men and women that end up at the national security council from the various agencies, as so many republicans are defaming them as part of the "deep state." it is presee tgious, it is the k of a career. these people are really well established and have strong credentials to be in these positions. you can be literally wounded in battle and yet you are suddenly, if you don't fall in line with the cult you're a trader. >> coming up, new polling suggesting that south carolina is joe biden's to lose. we'll dig into his support in that state next on "morning joe." ♪ ♪ ♪ the calming scent of lavender by downy infusions calm. laundry isn't done until it's done with downy. when i needed to create a better visitor experience. improve our workflow. attract new customers. that's when fastsigns recommended fleet graphics. yeah, and now business is rolling in. get started at fastsigns.com. lashmakes every lash fullyrom maybsensational.ork. our fanning brush volumizes every kind of lash... ...for a sensational full-fan effect. lash sensational. only from maybelline new york. dana-farber cancer institute discovered the pd-l1 pathway. pd-l1. they changed how the world fights cancer. blocking the pd-l1 protein, lets the immune system attack, attack, attack cancer. pd-l1 transformed, revolutionized, immunotherapy. pd-l1 saved my life. saved my life. saved my life. what we do here at dana-faber, changes lives everywhere. everywhere. everywhere. everywhere. everywhere. joe biden says he will not federally legalize marijuana. >> joe biden's lead continues. he is in first place with 33% of the support, elizabeth warren and bernie sanders follow with 13% and 11%, and mayor pete is in single digits with 6%. andrew yang at 4%. guy, man we're -- it is early, we'll always say it is early i always think it is early until it is 24 hours before any election, but we're certainly starting to see this field form. mayor pete coming on very strong in iowa. nac new hampshire sill undecided, but joe biden is teflon joe in south carolina. >> up with of the most important things is we don't see other candidates really eating into the lead among black voters. there are huge demographic c casams. both of those states are predominantly white and they tend to be more liberal on the side of the caucus and primary and south carolina is more diverse, and we have the nevada caucus between those. the most important thing i think is that joe biden has stabilized his race. there was talk about his decline, would he have the money and the support stick with him, but we have seen him hold pretty strong in place which was critical for him, but over 50% of caucus and primary goers say they're open to changing their mind. the next four are rerelatively even for these races. i still think we will see more change between now and the iowa caucus. >> black voters in south carolina, 44% support for joe biden, that will be a wall that mayor pete will have to breakthrough. south carolina is very port. it is the demographic break down. especially later on super tuesday when you have deep south states. you have texas, i mean, if joe biden hangs in for south carolina and wins, say he wins it comfortably, super tuesday suddenly looks very good for him and you get 40% of democratic delegates awarded on that one day. >> as guy just pointed out, there is a real resilience in joe biden's strength out there. and it props him up, his campaign was listed as dead. about a month ago. but he is still here, still strong, and still strong in certain aspects. one of the more interesting aspects out there is what is going on with elizabeth warren and her campaign. since her double forylook at he. >> i think once they get on stage and you put the lights on and start really looking at them, i think peopthat is the problem. people looked at the cost and they came up with another issue. none of the candidates have within able to sell back voters on why they should leave joe biden and that is demonstrated by him maintaining all of the ups and downs in the other polling. the solid support among black americans. this wednesday night when we have the debate live on msnbc, we have breakfast and four or five coming, they have to give an argument to black america. why would they go and walk away from barack obama's vice president and someone that we know. and obviously that argument has not held. they have not been addressed. the worst thing they can walk away from and into this super tuesday is that while i'm the candidate that whites vote for but blacks and browns will not vote for me. >> were just minutes away now from special coverage from the impeachment inquiry into president trump. "morning joe" and that testimony begins in just a moment. 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who is ron johnson doing this? >> the taxpayer investment in these people, ivindman has been doing an entire career. he went to get his masters degree so he could become an expert, whose interests are being served and last week kent and taylor are bot up there and being challenged repeatedly by falsehoods, and these people served 30 plus years to their countries and this is essentially how their career is coming to an end. >> and it is not cheap to go testify. you apt lawyer, your own interest producttected and you' put under a huge microscope, it is a big deal. >> and we have seen people like devin nunez and jim jordan subtlely and in some ways not so subtlely go after witnesses. what will it look like as they have devin nunez trying to cut away at the credibility of a man that just arrived in his uniform as he testified? >> i would say you haven't seen anything yet because the entire strategy is to discredit vindman. to use people's words against him. not only ron johnson has been critical, but throughout the testimony there have been subtle criticisms. and i think you will see that come to the surface throughout this entire day. they will try to paint him as someone not fit to serve in the white house. never accepted president trump's mission. was always doubtful of his credibility as a president. i think what you will show, my reporting will show that he will use people's word's against him, and that will be the centerpiece in what they expect will be a strong witness for the democratic witness. so they will try too jump all over him, and he was on this call, so he does have first-hand knowledge. and you will see them, despite the uniform, the career in public service, try to slag him as much as they can to tear down his credibility. >> boy that will help their reputation, won't it? absolutely not. it is really insane how far off the cliff this party has done for donald trump, attacking an american war hero. let's talk about today, set the scene for us today. a lot of people are looking at ambassador sondland. >> all right, this is the week when the american people will learn everything that they have to know. that will go for investigate break and then congress will come back and decide what to do about it. three of the four witnesses are first-hand witnesses to that phone call. we heard a lot from republicans about hearsay, no, they were on the phone call, what they heard they believe is inappropriate. you will hear them recount that and then you will hear from the republican's star witness. and it will be fascinating to watch tim morrison be a star witness when he will back up the key assertions of the democratic case. number one gordon sondland nfls y -- was in ukraine with the direction of president trump. and number two, contrary to what gordon sondland said, he informs constant contact. tim morrison said it was several times and sondland bragged about being able to call the president when ever he wanted to. he also said that sondland told a top official that the aid was conditioned. so let's remind everybody today that mick mulvaney acknowledged all of this on live television weeks ago. another witness that i'm looking at is laura cooper who is going to be testifying tomorrow who will be overshadowed by gordon sondland, but she will testify that the aid was never at risk. the aid was very much at risk. that the president had blown through a lot of interagency deadlines and she was warning omb saying look, please you're putting $100 million at risk and the only reason the ukrainians got that aid, because the president ignored all of those warnings, is because congress acted. there was a stopgap funding bill. this is critical because this speaks to lives. lives were at risk and this aid very possibly would not have been disbursed and it was all ignored by the white house. >> we're just over 15 minutes away from the testimonying beginning. we're going to fit in one more break as we continue our conversation with our panel. ari is going to join us as well. we will start our special coverage in just over 15 minutes from now. and we have the current attempts to influence the 2020 election. keep it on morning joe. election keep it on morning joe ♪oh there's no place like home for the holidays.♪ ♪for the holidays you can't beat home sweet home.♪ we go the extra mile to bring your holidays home. i'm a regular in my neighborhood. i'm a regular at my local coffee shop and my local barber shop. when you shop small you help support your community - from after school programs to the arts! so become a regular, more regularly. because for every dollar you spend at a small business, an average of 67 cents stays in the community. join me and american express on small business saturday, november 30th, and see how shopping small adds up. i'm a verizon engineer, and i'm part of the team building the most powerful 5g experience for america. it's 5g ultra wideband-- --for massive capacity-- --and ultra-fast speeds. almost 2 gigs here in minneapolis. that's 25 times faster than today's network in new york city. so people from midtown manhattan-- --to downtown denver-- --can experience what our 5g can deliver. 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they have been destroyed through three years of the muller investigation. the last gab is what are the norms and standards. >> let's put the chart back up, biden overwhelmingly trashed by the russians, they are lining up with trump again. curious, tulsi gabbard, why is it that she got a favorable mention to the russians. it is fairly extraordinary. >> tulsi gabbard says everything that russia wants to hear a candidate say. we were watching the islamic state falling. she is an army officer saying the u.s. should withdraw. from the krim lin's perspective they want her to get out there that they should restreet from the world stage. they're doing what they did last time. they creating a formula and they're picking the candidates they know that the trump administration, the trump campaign is focusing on driving a wedge between black voters and democrats. >> the next installment is about the president himself. the next got the most mentions. they don't always like him, they love candidate trump but they don't like ahead of state trump. you can see the committee members entering the hall now, let's go to ari melbur. we're just having another day of the impeachment inquiry with two witnesses, what do you expect to see here out of the gate? >> it will be the shotgun that starts the week's hearings it more firsthand accounts of vindman having been an eyewitness to the call. and more out the career people that were pushed out of the way are getting a chance to speak. last week was a lot of hearing from people who were basically on the side -- these were the diplomats that were pushed aside. and this week and i think for a lot of regular americans, a shadow foreign policy and the references, they don't mean much, and they're right in the target of the offense. and what we're going to hear this week is why they want people out of the way. there was an enlisted goal, a goal of extorting help for the election. >> yeah, what is the goal of the democratic leadership this week? >> i think very clearly they're trying to continue to build this narrative and they have a very strong trio of people today. all of them have firsthand information here, and we have not heard a lot about the first-hand accounting of what rudy was up to. and volker will be able to provide that. they are making the government run. and he heard his political rival in joe biden, and the corruption. and sondland is very important tomorrow. he is very important for republicans and democrats resting on what he heard, what he said, what he was involved with, the alleged security mishaps, so the most critical week for democrats as they build this narrative, they want to turn the channel, confuse information, that is what they consider a win. they want to turn the channel. republicans have not done anything for the hardships, we saw aid was held up, there is baseline information that we know here and that is what democrats are hanging their hats on. >> what is. >> doug: democrats want this week. he was one of the first witnesses to testify, and frankly he did not come completely clean. he had to amend his testimony and said there was a quid pro quo and then we hear from another witness to his phone calls with president trump that oh, in fact he was discussing the aid on the phone directly with president trump and that was overheard by aids and contrary to what republicans were saying is that this plot was never carried through, this aid that will testify on wednesday saying he did get the ukrainians to cry uncle and say okay, we're going to do it but it fell through. so today you will hear the star witness. he is saying that sondland had the blessing of trump do be conducting all of this. when sondland comes before the committee tomorrow, the message from the democrats will be don't save the president, save yourself. tell us everything that you know, how often were you in contact with the president, what was the president pushing for, because even volker who may have problems with conflicting system will also be pressed to acknowledge that this was all coming from the president by all accounts. and really, himself, he knew what it was what the president wanted and he was trying to push for it, too. >> ari, the attention will be in li lieutenant vindman, but next to him is jennifer williams. he said he never heard of her. she works for vice president pence, so what will be the criticism of this witness for republicans today? >> as you say, it doesn't mat who are she informed about, but they have fact witnesses. i do think the republicans best efforts have been to poke little holes or maybe that this was not a grand conspiracy or a turn of events or a classic fall guy strategy that it was coming up from giuliani and not down. i think the problem is the holes that viewers that have been watching our coverage is that there is more than one set of corroboration. it is not really he said he said. there is written corroboration, there is what the individuals have said about what the president -- of course the rose garden confession. and then you have all of these e-mails, where you mick mulvaney on e-mail chains again with the president saying the goal was the investigation, that was the purpose of the call. so people on the call are saying their view of what transpired, and the security officials looked so unusual and -- >> and the democrats are looking to see if they're under oath to robert mueller. >> in his take home forms that his lawyers filled out for him. >> yes, and it just continues and the court battles involving tax returns, chief justice roberts provided a stay for a few days which was really people overplayed that yesterday. that was administrative decision, but a lot coming at this president. >> a lot coming at this president, and i think a lot coming at the republican party this morning. ari, the testimony of colonel vindman, the cross-examination will be interesting to see how far they go in trying to demean vindman in front of a national tv audience. >> i think that is a precarious place for them and if you want to put aside the obvious ethics of it,

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