Transcripts For MSNBCW MSNBC Live 20190601

To Michael Flynns legal team. What do they suggest . Reaction, next. New details this hour on the breaking news from a mass shooting in Virginia Beach. Police say 12 people were killed on three floors of a Municipal Building friday afternoon. Four more were wounded. As of last night, 90 people had sought services at the family assistance center. Official says theyre working through the process of identifying victims as quickly as possible. Police also converging on the suspects apartment. Officials have not relowsed his name, but say hes a longstanding City Employee and he was shot dead during a fierce gunfight with four Police Officers first on the scene. Immediately engaged with the suspect. And i can tell you that it was a long gun battle between those four officers and that suspect. We recovered a. 45caliber handgun with multiple extended magazines that were empty at the time. Today is Virginia Beachs darkest hour. A senseless crime happened. And imposed tremendous grief upon the people of Virginia Beach. Were expecting an update from officials in the next couple of hours. Nbcs ron allen is covering the story for us and joins us from Virginia Beach. Were getting dramatic accounts from witnesses who were inside the building at the time. What are you hearing . Well it was just an incredible thing that happened here. 4 00 in the afternoon on a friday there are some 400 employees who work in this building. Where on the campus of the municipal center. There are about 20 or 30 buildings here. You can see behind me back down there. Thats the building that were talking about. Its a threestory building. There were bodies found on all floors. The suspect, the shooter was a longtime employee. So he had access to the building, a place where people go to pay bills, where city workers come and go. The utilities department, its a very open campus. The point im trying to make. So at this hour, 4 00 in the afternoon the gunman walked in leisurely, he had a silencer on a gun, so some witnesses say they werent quite sure it was happening. The sounds were muffled at first and then police engaged him which is the tactic, the strategy that Police Across the country use, they go in and encounter the gunman. There was a lengthy shootout. We dont know how long, many minutes apparently it took. As the gunman was moving floor to floor to floor. Apparently firing randomly at people. It doesnt appear he was trying to target anyone in particular. Heres what some of the people who were hunkered down inside the building, barricaded in their offices had to say about what they saw and heard. Were hearing shooting about we didnt think it was actually at the courthouse, because it was kind of multiple. We put a desk up against the door. We didnt know if they were coming in or anything. There was a lady on the stairs unconscious, blood on her face. We didnt know what happened. We went yut upstairs, and she said, get out of the building. Im petrified because i live right under him. That could have been me or my girlfriend or my roommate. He seemed like a nice guy, he introduced himself when we first moved in. Thats just crazy. Apparently the suspect is very well known because he had been an employee at the city for many years. A long time. So people knew who he was. This is a very Small Community of workers in this municipal complex. Just a devastating thing that happened, out of the blue. With no warning, which is the way they things tragically and randomly seem to always happen. So now theres still a heavy Police Presence here at the scene. Theyre still processing, going through the building and theyre also at the suspects home, trying to notify people in the community about what happened. The sun is rising here now. Its going to be quite a solemn day as people try to understand and come to grips with this horrible thing thats happened here. Yet again, a shooting in america. Phillip . Ron, what do woe no about the News Conference coming up . What do we expect to learn when that happens later on today. Were trying to learn all the basics of what police know about the weapons that were used. The weapon that was used. They believe it was purchased legally. More about the suspect and of course this motive. Why would somebody ever do Something Like this . Theres no explanation for that. At this point. The authorities are again this happened overnight. Theyve been processing these crime scenes it just sounds like this was a massive incident. A massi ivive firefight. The gunman was loading and reloading his weapon we understand. He had a number of magazines. Were trying to understand as much as we can about what happened. Theres still a number of people who are in the hospital who i believe are in critical condition. As many as four or five at last report. Theres some who are wounded and again this is a Community Just trying to understand, trying to grapple with how this could happen here. Ageold question, we do this again and again how could this happen here . Who was this guy . Why would he do this . Theres never a logical or sensible explanation for these things. Thats what this community is going through, a very solemn and grieffilled process. That we have so many times tragically seen before. A tragedy thats all too familiar. Ron allen live from Virginia Beach. Lets go to the white house and nbcs mike vaquero, whats the reaction there . Since this did happen at 4 00 eastern here in washington, south of here in Virginia Beach. Havent heard anything from president trump. We understand from his spokesperson, hogan gidley that he has been briefed on the situation. The president does not have a schedule of public schedule this weekend at least not today. Late on sunday night hes due across town at a previously scheduled gala at fords theater. And late at night on sunday here in washington, he takes off for a much anticipated state visit to great britain, also a visit to ireland and normandy thrown in as well. So nothing yet from the president. Known to be a prolific tweeter to say the least, has not yet taken to the air waves, has not yet taken to the internet to offer reaction. All right, mike vaquero joining us early on this saturday morning from the white house. Want to bring in shawn henry, a former fbi executive assistant director. Shawn thank you so much for joining us this morning. As soon as the Police Arrive they engage the shooter. The police chief said that prevented additional injuries and additional deaths, is Law Enforcement better prepared to handle these situations . Unfortunately because of how many, how prolific these types of events are, theyve been training quite extensively for the last decade on what we call active shooter. Police officers are training and they are trained to clearly go to the threat as quickly as they can. Oftentimes in Law Enforcement events theres a slow, deliberate clear when youre executing a search warrant or an arrest warrant where you know theres somebody inside who might be armed. Its very, methodical and in a case like this where youve got an active shooter, the police are trained to go immediately to the threat. They very quickly put themselves at risk. Go past open doors, they go into rooms. They try to cover each other. But the idea is to get to the shooter as quickly as possible, to eliminate the threat to allow people to get out. The other piece here i think that is important is the training that victims have come by in the last decade or so. Where weve seen run, hide and fight. A very clear directive to victims object what they can do to protect themselves in this particular case. Listening to victims here in the newsfeed. There are many who ran when they heard the shooting. They were told by their coworkers to get out. Other who is sheltered in place, they were in contact with other coworkers via phone. They put barricades up against the door. Pushing desks, hiding in closets. So the training beyond Police Officers into the victims, also likely helped to save lives here. Many Companies Running through those active shooter drills. The shooter bought his guns legally within the last couple of weeks. Shawn, is there any way that we can connect the dots here and try to stop these people before they can commit these types of atrocities . Weve heard news reports the police chief said it was a disgruntled employee. I think that certainly the investigation at this point is going to try to identify what the actual motivation is. Thats what youll see come out of the search warrant, at his house, at his vehicle. Through his social media. Et cetera, i think oftentimes there are signs where somebody might be disgruntled. Youve got employees who appear to be isolated. They withdraw from the social fabric within the office. They sometimes make comments or statements, if they see other coworkers being promoted. They feel like theyve been somehow harmed in some way. I think that Police Officers certainly are not in line to see those things firsthand. But employers are, family members are there are people that are surrounding these, these people who might identify these signs, and theyve got to be addressed early on in a calm fashion and try to, to try and bring these things to a peaceful solution. Well find out more about what actually motivated this particular individual there will be a lot of Lessons Learned on how to deescalate going forward. I understand this is going to be a large question, something we grapple with here. What do you think the best way is to prevent the frequency of these Mass Shootings or at the very least, limit the number of casualties when they do in fact happen . Well eliminating casualties i think the training that we just spoke about. But both on the Police Officer side as well as the victim side, how do you manage to mitigate the consequences of an attack like this. I also think theres a lot going on in our society. A lot of this comes down to what we do as a community. How do we handle people in distress . How do we identify people who might have some type of an emotional issue. How do we limit those people from getting access to weapons . How do we make this, not such a notoriety type issue. Weve seen a lot of copy cats in school shootings. How do we take the allure away from that and try to mitigate it that way . Theres a whole host of things that go into trying to insure we have a safer society. Theres no easy answer. Its going to require both law e enforcement, the community to come together to try to find the right solution. Appreciate your insight. The impact of the president s tariff threat heads to mexico while wall street doesnt like it. Will this give the president second thoughts . What to expect moving forward, next. I want it that way. I cant believe it. That karl brought his karaoke machine . Aint nothing but a heartache. No, i cant believe how easy it was to save hundreds of dollars on my Car Insurance with geico. I never wanna hear you say. No, kevin. No, kevin believe it geico could save you fifteen percent or more on Car Insurance. Since my dvt blood clot i was thinking. You fifteen percent could there be another around the corner . Or could it turn out differently . I wanted to help protect myself. My doctor recommended eliquis. 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But moving your internet and tv . Thats easy. Easy . easy . Easy. Because now xfinity lets you transfer your Service Online in just about a minute with a few simple steps. Really . Really. That was easy. Yup. Plus, with twohour appointment windows, its all on your schedule. Awesome. Now all you have to do is move. That thing. [ sigh ] introducing an easier way to move with xfinity. Its just another way were working to make your life simple, easy, awesome. Go to xfinity. Com moving to get started. Back now with latest on the shooting in Virginia Beach. Police say the suspect, a longtime City Employee opened fire at a Municipal Building on friday afternoon. 12 people were killed. The suspect was shot dead after what Police Describe as a long gun battle. Four other people were wounded, including a Police Officer. Whose bulletproof vest helped save his life. To politics now, new this morning, Widening Political ramifications over the president s threat to impose tariffs on all mexican goods. Starting in about a week, a 5 tariff will be placed, unless mexico slows down the flow of migrants crossing the border. The tariffs would rise monthly to as high as 25 until the white house decides that the problem has been solved. Two sources close to the white house tell nbc news the tariff threat was posed by treasury secretary Steven Mnuchin and u. S. Trade representative robert lighthizer. Whose idea was it . Immigration hardliner Steven Miller. The white house Senior Adviser spent the bulk of the president s japan trip advocating for a tougher line on mexico. The white house denies the decision was rushed. Adviser lighthizer supports the agenda and will continue to push to get u. S. Mca to get the vote it deserves and continue to negotiate trade deals with china. The president didnt blindside his own party. If republicans werent aware, they havent been paying attention, i dont mean that in a bad way. The mexican president wrote to president trump. The quote social problems cannot be resolved with taxes or corrosive measures. Mexican authorities insist that their data shows theyve been deporting immigrants crossing from central america. Meanwhile, u. S. Business groups are considering suing the white house. Several republicans in congress have slammed the president s threat. If the president is going to do it i think it has to be thought out and to see what all the Collateral Damage is going to be. Many american businesses and that means Many American workers could be affected by this. Just for instance on the china tariffs, ive had some businesses in my district which have been affected which probably people wouldnt have thought they were going to be actually hit hard by it. But they are. Several crucial 2020 electoral states would be hit the hardest as imports from mexico account for 13 of all u. S. Imports. Most economists agree consumers will ultimately pay for those tariffs. The white house top trade adviser Peter Navarro says otherwise. The people who say that somehow American Consumer is going to pay for this is not true. The government of china has borne the burden of those tariffs in the form of lower tax revenues and a lower rate of growth. So is the American Consumer. But no. Importers pay for it. The government of kline and mexico will pay for it and the producers in mexico and china pay for this. Lets discuss this further with blake houndshell editor in chief of Politico Magazine and john haltenwiner, with business insider. How do you interpret the insistence that American Consumers will not pay for the tariffs. Is the general consensus that the American Consumer would pay . Is the white house not being straight here . Yeah, Peter Navarro has always been an outlier by economists which is why hes so beloved by the president , who seems to have a different idea of how economics works than any other economist in the world. The president came out with statements yesterday saying this is going to hit American Consumers right in the wallet so when you have the u. S. Chamber of commerce saying that, i think its clear whats going on. What do you make of the president goided by Steven Miller to go ahead with the tariff threat despite his top economic aides warning him not to. Does this come down to the president trying to appeal to his base . Absolutely. This is definitely about his desperation on the issue of immigration. He campaigned on the idea that it would be easy for him to come in and address legal immigration. But the problem has only gotten worse since he entered the white house and hes taken a number of drastic moves. From the natural Emergency Declaration to now this. And his agenda is not working. Its at a standstill. I think were seeing hes increasingly desperate to appease voters and perhaps also wants to distract from impeachment talk and yes, appease his base ahead of an election year. The tweet did come right after Robert Mueller spoke publicly for the first time. I want to discuss increasing calls for an impeachment inquiry after several democrats interpreted this weeks statement from the special counsel as an impeachment referral. Heres congresswomans debby dingells interpretation. Theres a very the theme that is throughout this report about how russian is trying to dedivide this country. I dont want to play into russias hands and divide this country more with a partisan impeachment. Im totally schizophrenic right now about all the Different Things in there. I think we have to do this in a bipartisan way. Blake, is she alone, or is the congresswoman genuinely overthinking this . I think people in and around House Speaker nancy pelosi are trying to hold back a tide, a rising tide of democrats calling for impeachment. Shes worried about house members in districts that won in the 201 mid terms in trump country, red districts, purpose districts. Those are the representatives who you dont see coming out for impeachment. And pelosi is worried theyll lose their seats if democrats go in that direction. Thats why she and people like debbie dingell, jerry nadler are trying to slowwalk this before its kind of a rush to judgment. John, you wrote that democrats are moving towards impeaching the president , despite strong evidence it could hurt them in 2020. Heres judiciary chairman jerry nadler. You cant impeach the president until the people support it. And you also, its a political act and you also dont want to divide the country so that half the country is bitter for 30 years, if there is justification, you have to develop the awareness in the country and, and the agreement basically before you can take the real step of an impeachment. John what do you think about the argument that an impeachment inquiry could help generate public support for impeachment . I think theres a strong case to be made for that. Theres a point that democrats if they want to gain support for impeachment, need to lay out the case for it and present the evidence to the American People. I think weve seen a lot of polling and other evidence that shows that americans arent really aware of muellers findings, only 3 of americans have read muellers report. A majority of republicans think that falsely believe that muellers report fully exonerated the president. So now theres correct that having mueller testify perhaps launching impeachment inquiry that could help them lay out the evidence could generate more support among the public for impeachment. Do you think its better that democrats do what they think is right or what they think polls better . I think thats a question for democrats. But generally i would say, its like fear. The public can smell a lack of conviction in your politics and if you go out there and you say, my heart tells me we need to impeach donald trump hes done all of these wrong things, but my political brain tells me we need to not do that. Voters can smell that. Theyre going to act accordingly, youre going to lose enthusiasm among the Democratic Base and voters will sit on their hands and stay home if they think youre being overly political like that. Thank you so much. Were going to discuss gun control with you later. 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A lot of people are on scene and our thoughts are for these victims and their families and were working with our Law Enforcement, our First Responders to make sure we take care of everybody. Were hearing dramatic stories from employees inside the complex at the time. Nbcs ron allen joining us again from Virginia Beach. What can you tell us from there . Well there were about 400 people or so employees in the complex. Its huge complex of about 30 city buildings here. And the building in question is right behind me, a colonial brick building, three stories tall. And there were bodies found on each of the floors. The gunman, the suspect as hes being called here, is not being identified by name here. The city officials are making a point of saying they are only going to say his name once and refer to him as the suspect out of respect for the victims, out of respect for the community. So that the focus of attention here is on the community and not on this gunman who carried out this deranged event. This happens at 4 00 p. M. On a friday, the bidding is filled with workers. Its the end of the week, people are probably getting ready to go home and all of a sudden this happens. Its an open building where people can come and go, there doesnt seem to be a Security System to get into it. We understand that the main city hall, which is adjacent to this building did enhance security in recent years because of all the shootings that have been happening around the country. But this one was a wideopen place, because the gunman was an employee, he had access to the building. He walked freely in, apparently. And just opened fire. He used what theyre calling a suppressor, a silencer. So there are some reports, as some of the people who were there, couldnt quite understand exactly what was going on. The sounds of the gunfire didnt sound as close as it actually was. Many barricaded themselves in offices, they called 911. The Police Responded very quickly. There were four officers who got here in a matter of minutes and immediately engaged the gunman. And as police were describing, a long, drawnout gun battle of many minutes. Apparently a very horrifying situation that played itself out. While the gunman was taken down by police. Today still a very heavy Police Presence here. A very active scene. Police, fbi, there are authorities from all over this area trying to help this Community Figure out how such a horrible thing could happen. Employees minds were on the weekend. Now their lives are changed forever. Ron allen, thank you so much. Joining us from Virginia Beach this morning. Lets turn to politics and the debate over special counsel Robert Muellers message. Raging on. His unexpected appearance is leading washington to parse comments like this one. The opinion says that the constitution requires a process other than the criminal Justice System to formally accuse a sitting president of wrongdoing. Attorney general bill barr delivering a rebuttal of sorts yesterday. Saying he thought mueller could have reached a conclusion. The New York Times sums up a divide with this headline, mueller delivered a message, washington couldnt agree on what it means. Joining Us Democratic strategist, former adviser to Hillary Clintons campaign in South Carolina and boston radio host, adriana cohen, a nationally syndicated columnist. Good morning to you. Antoine, how do you explain this divide . Did muellers remarks move the conversation forward at all in your view . I dont think it moved the conversation forward. I think it confirmed what we already knew, what i said to you several weeks ago on this program. I think the special prosecutor gave the congress an alleyoop on a sevenfoot rim in order to slamdunk. The question for the congress, particularly the democratic majority in the house is what happens next . Ive been clear, consistent about the philosophy of rob base, it makes two to make the thing go right. I think the congress has to focus on investigating and legislating. What we know is not many people are totally in support of this idea of impeachment. We also know that not many people in this country, particularly voters, have either read the report or are familiar with the report. I think at this point, the congress has to continue to be methodical. And flesh out the cups of corruption that overflow from this administration and set the case for what happens next. If theres if that is impeachment, we have to build a public case with public support, because we got in the majority in congress, because we focus on quality of life issues and i think thats what the American People are expecting us to do. Not necessarily to focus 100 on impeachment. Adriana, some democrats and other observers, including mueller biographer, gary graph, consider muellers remarks his way of saying his report was an impeachment referral to congress. Is that possible . I think it was. I think bob mueller really did the country a lot of harm by presenting nuance. Which is bad for our country. Basically he after 22 months, exhausted investigation with 19 lawyers, they turned over every stone. They could not find that the president of the United States committed a crime. If he did, they would have brought charges. And the fact that they didnt and he even said thats not true. Thats not true. He had insufficient evidence, then its case closed. I mean if go ahead. You absolutely did not Pay Attention to the special prosecutors comments early this week. He clearly laid out in his press conference, if the president did not commit a crime, he, the report would have said so. So that does not mean he did not commit a crime. What it means is that the special prosecutor felt like in his body of work, what he was called to did or challenged to do, he could not necessarily bring about those charges. What most people took from that, democrats and republicans, that yes, the congress has a job to continue to drag this out and investigate and flush this out to sigh what happens next. To say that the president didnt commit a crime is a lie on saturday morning. No, no, no. I disagree, look, hes a prosecutor, his job is to either find if a crime was committed or not. He shouldnt adriana, he said it was olc guidelines, he was trying to follow olc guidelines, he made it clear that he could not charge the president with a crime, because he could not defend himself in any court other, so thats why he said it was another body, i. E. Congress, it was up to them. He was laying out the evidence. Let me speak antoine, its my turn to speak. You know attorney general barr said that he is spoke with bob mueller and he told him on three times with witnesses present, that he did not bring, he did not not bring charges because of the office of Legal Counsel rules, he didnt bring charges because there was insufficient evidence. Theres a big difference here. Thats not look so adriana, let me ask you this, why in the world do we not have trumps appointed a. G. , who has pledged allegiance to donald trump based on his behavior, why in the world would he not sit himself down before the congress and allow them to question him and flesh this out . Because the a. G. Was clear in his report and he was clear in his followup press conference just the other day that trump has not been exonerated by his report. Now maybe you let me explain the law to you, antoine, let me explain the law to you, its not a prosecutors job to not exonerate someone. We have presumption of innocence in this country and you either charge someone with a crime and if you cant find one, they are innocent. And so what bob mueller you cant charge someone that you dont have the liberty to. On its head. Because hes now forcing the accused to prove their innocence and thats not the way our legal system works. I have a column out right now saying its bob mueller who should be censored, if not disbarred for malpractice. Let me tell you what i believe. I believe the special prosecutor should come before congress. I believe the congress should do its job and have trumps a. G. Come before congress so the American People can know. What we know is that russia hacked into our elections for the sake of helping donald trump become the president of the United States. The president admitted it himself just a few days ago on twitter. Therefore what we need to do as the special prosecutor said one we should definitely Pay Attention to that and the republicans are pressing the ignore button on that issue. Two, i think the American People deserve to know everything that happened and how it happened and why it happened and who was involved. Because at the end of the day, the report did not exonerate the president. You can right all the column us want and yell and scream at me and try to no one is yelling, antoine, im giving you the facts. You know im right. No, i dont believe youre right at all. I think we need full transparency as to the origins of this entire special counsel investigation. Republicans are all for transparency. Lets talk about that Hillary Clinton paid for, that made its way into our Justice System with the help of the Obama Administration and you know, james comey. He said the dossier was salacious and unfair, unverified. He still allowed it to be used as a cudgel against a political opponent, donald trump. We cannot have our Justice System weaponize for political purposes. If youre all about transparency. I dont mean convenient transparency. If youre all about transparency, why wont trump signal to his a. G. To testify before the congress . Why is he telling his disciples and associates to not go before the democratic, the Democratic Congress and testify . Because this is a neverending witch hunt. The case closed. The prosecutor found no collusion, no obstruction. Were going to have to pick this up another day. I appreciate the spirit of debate as always, thank you so much for joining us this morning. The tale of the transcript in the Michael Flynn saga. One becomes public while the mystery surrounding another deepens. Lots and lots of water. You wouldnt feed your kids just water, so why starve your plants . Feed their hunger and get twice the results. New miraclegro performance organics. 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Back with us to discuss, blake houndshell with politico and john haltenwanger with Political Insider is there a chance that cumulative effects with so many shootings might change the political appetite for gun reform . I think that theres a chance of that. I think with this congress, not so much. As long as republicans control the senate, theres not going to be much appetite for gun control. But i think you see the politics shifting ever so slightly at the state level. And gun control activists are getting smarter and more sophisticated about how they approach this issue even as the nra, the biggest Gun Rights Organization is reeling from its internal scandals and struggling to raise money at the clip it once did and you have michael bloomberg, former mayor of new york, throwing around tens of millions of dollars in american politics, outspent the nra in the 201 mid terms and a lot of nra candidates didnt do as well as the organization had hoped. So i think theres a shifting slowly. I dont think youre going 0 get gun control out of congress tomorrow. But rome wasnt wasnt built in a day. The National Rifle association are going through internal turmoil. Its president recently resigning over alleged financial mismanagement and the new York Attorney general is now investigating the nras finances. John, is there any sense of a crack in the nra that could diminish its influence . Or is that organization just as strong as ever . Well i think that certainly possible. And obviously theres a lot of internal chaos right now, youre right. But to blakes point, republicans still control the senate and theres really no signs that theyre interested in supporting any new gun control legislation. Despite the fact that most americans would like to see stricter gun laws and theres bipartisan agreement among voters on issues like universal background checks. But yes, at the moment it doesnt look like republican lawmakers would support such legislation. Were left with the old familiar phrase with, our thoughts and prayers, blake and john, thank you so much for joining us this morning. We will talk about the why behind these headlines, Justice Department keeps wiretaps secret in flynn case. Hopes you drive s. But allstate actually helps you drive safely. With drivewise. It lets you know when you go too fast. And brake too hard. With feedback to help you drive safer. Giving you the power to actually lower your cost. Unfortunately, it cant do anything about that. Now that you know the truth. Are you in good hands . Through the at t network, edgetoedge intelligence gives you the power to see every corner of your growing business. From managing inventory. To detecting and preventing threats. To scaling up your production. Giving you a nice big edge over your competition. Thats the power of edgetoedge intelligence. The matters. Ar. Introducing the allnew 2019 ford ranger, its the right gear. With a terrain Management System for. This. A bash plate for. That. An electronic locking Rear Differential for. Yeah. This. Heading to the supermarket . Get any truck. Heading out here . Get the ford ranger. The only adventure gear built ford tough. Were following breaking news, investigators are looking for apss this morning after yesterdays mass shooting in Virginia Beach. Police raided the home of a suspect alongstanding City Employee who was shot dead at the scene. 12 people were killed, at least four others wounded, including a Police Officer saved by his buttproof vest. The city is trying to victims to notify families. The massacre is the deadliest in the u. S. This year. New reaction today after federal prosecutors refused the judges order to release by friday transcripts Michael Flynn had with the Russian Ambassador during the president ial transition. The transcripts were expected to show the two men spoke in december of 2016 about sanctions the Obama Administration had imposed on russia. Joining me now to discuss this is legal analyst danny cevallos. Good morning. It is interesting when you read between the lines the language and orders. The judge released the transcript and added a trailer of any recordings the government has. You have to imagine at main justice or doj while looking at the order they were scratching their heads because we cannot release everything. Surely the judge meant the stuff we used in the flynn case and relied on in sentencing. The doj and attorneys had an interesting choice. Comply with the judges order as everything or do they release what the judge thought he meant by the order and give the stuff they relied upon in sentencing. It is a game buit. It is a risk that the judge could come back angrier if he perceives the order was rejected. How can they come to that clarification . How do they interpret it . Sure. It is a gambit. If the order requires any and all recordings that you have. So the government is really trying an interpretation is what the judge must have meant. Surely, judge, you must have meant the stuff we used in this case for flynn so ill tell you what. We will release and comply with the order. Here is what we complied with. Maybe they hope the judge doesnt notice which will not happen here or the judge will be s saited. Phillip, these orders are as long as a tweet. Sometimes they say that is not what they talked about in court. The judge dictated it or lost in translation. Sometimes it does. I dont think that happened here. The government is taking a risk. Maybe it will payoff. Maybe it wont. I have sympathy for the government attorneys the moment they had to file knowing they may be perceived as violating the judges order. In another filing on friday, the voice mail message that john dowd left for Michael Flynns order. He said it would not surprise him if flynn is about to make a deal. He said if there is information that implicates the president , then it is a National Security issue. He later asked for a heads up. Danny, what are you making of this . Dowd is a talented lawyer. That being said, i cannot imagine why anyone with leave a voice mail as an attorney, even attorney to attorney, in such a high profile situation as this any kind of voice mail with any kind of substance other than call me back. Heres my cell phone number. This is the kind of thing that john dowd and people will interpret or miss iinterpret an view as a possible veiled threat to not cooperate or whether or not they are cooperating. This is a shame. Frankly, thats why voice mail and transcripts can be misinterpreted. Probably something he wishes he did not do now is leave voice mails for attorneys who now will turn those over to the government. Dowd did issue a statement. This is clearly a baseless political document designed to smear and damage the reputation of counsel and innocent people. Michael flynn is awaiting sentencing. What impact could these transcripts have on the sentencing . We know Michael Flynn delayed his sentencing essentially judge sullivans order or recommendation i would say. Not too subtle a recommendation. In the judges view, flynn was not finished with cooperating with the government. Unusual hearing to be sure. Normally if the government is on board with cooperation, the judge doesnt interfere too much. Thats why flynns sentencing was delayed. Now the release of this transcript coupled with the governments perceived possibly not complying with the order could add more intrigue to flynns sentencing and the level of cooperation that judge sullivan perceives. I want to go now to the former special counsel Robert Mueller and attorney general william barr. They made contradicting statements as barr stood behind the president s actions mentioned in the report. Lets listen to that. Many instances would not amount to obstruction. When a subject of an investigation obstructs that investigation or lies to investigators it strikes at the core of the governments effort to find the truth. There was no obstruction. If we had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so. We didnt agree with the legal analysis. Charging the president with a crime was not an option we could consider. There was no obstruction. It is important that the offices written work speak for itself. Danny, do you think his Public Statement was a way to contradict what barr said publicly . That montage was like drinking from a public water fountain. The dispute with barr and mueller. Barr says sub stantively there wasnt obstruction. Mueller says from the start, we knew we could in the charge obstruction and we gathered facts and let other people figure it out. We knew from the beginning we were never going to charge obstruction. Mueller and barr, although they have a long working relationship together, are never going to agree. Legal analyst danny cevallos, thank you. At the top of the hour, live reports on the top story. At least 12 are dead after a man opens fire at a building in Virginia Beach. Shaving has been difficult for me. I have very sensitive skin, and i get ingrowing hairs. Oh i love it. Its a great razor. It has that fence in the middle. It gives a nice smooth shave. Patients that i see about dry mouth. They feel that they have to drink a lot of water. Medications seem to be the number one cause for dry mouth. I like to recommend biotene. It replenishes the moisture in your mouth. Biotene definitely works. [heartbeat] whats going on . Its the 3pm slump. Should have had a p3. Oh yeah. Should have had a p3. Need energy . Get p3. With a mix of meat, cheese and nuts. This season, tmobile is partnering with Little League, to make sure every kid can feel like an allstar. With tmobile, parents across the country can share the action, the highlights and the lowlights. And the stars of tomorrow get a chance to shine today. From Little League to the big leagues, tmobile has you covered. Now connecting 99 of baseball fans. Tmobile. All right. That wraps up this hour of msnbc live. Im phillip mena. It is time for alex witt. Thank you. Welcome to weekends with alex witt. A gunman leaves 12 dead. Officers take action. We were able to locate