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Organizational Allen Weisselberg described as trumps fm gatekeeper was granted immunity by federal prosecutors in new york for providing information during the Michael Cohen investigation, thats according to multiple people with knowledge of the matter. The timing of when this immunity happens still remains unanswered and according to Stormy Daniels attorney Michael Avenatti, the answer could suggest where federal prosecutors are headed. In if immunity was granted to mr. Weisselberg late in the process, and it appears that it was, that is very telling. Now, the only reason, then, that they would give immunity to mr. Weisselberg is that they were looking beyond Michael Cohen. They would need potentially his testimony in cooperation to look at someone else higher up the food chain, if you will. Theres only one person that that is likely to be, and that is donald trump. All right. This comes right after a New York Times bombshell report that the Manhattan District Attorneys Office is considering pursuing criminal charges against the Trump Organization. And two Senior Company officials in connection with hush money payments made by cohen along with another report from the Associated Press that says the National Enquirer, at least the boss of the National Enquirer kept a safe containing documents on hushmoney payments and other damaging stories that it didnt run leading up to the 2016 president ial election. The president did not answer any questions on these breaking stories as he headed to ohio to spend the night with his supporters. Lets start the hour with nbc news investigations reporter tom winter. A lot of developments here and we have to try to keep them straight. The issue regarding Allen Weisselberg. He is the money man in the same way that Michael Cohen was the fixer and the lawyer, a guy who sort of saw and knew of everything that happened. No money came and went without weisselberg knowing about it . Thats correct. And we only have to look at the criminal information that Michael Cohen pled guilty to to know that. Because right in there there are statements that are made and that are quoted that specifically state exactly what was to be done with the repayment to Michael Cohen for that Stormy Daniels payment back in 2016. So its very clear from the Court Documents, from what were able to get following proceedings on tuesday exactly what it was that executive one, who we now have learned and confirmed issalen weisselberg, exactly what he was aware of in early 2017 as it related to these payments. Now, theres going to be all sorts of questions that come up as far as did he actually know that this was a payment for Stormy Daniels or not . What was his particular knowledge . We dont necessarily have that from the Court Documents. But we do know that he was definitely involved in this particular deal, count eight in the criminal information that Michael Cohen as i said before, pled guilty to on tuesday. Earlier i talked to Michael Avenatti. And what he said, its interesting, he said if this deal, this immunity for weisselberg came late in the dealings with Michael Cohen, its interesting. Because they obviously wouldnt have needed him if Michael Cohen had already said what he said. He had on the tape that hes that hes disseminated, that he is telling donald trump that hes already talked to Allen Weisselberg about setting up this payment. The issue is whether if this deal was made later, that prosecutors might be after something else, something they dont already have from Michael Cohen. I certainly appreciate where hes coming from. There are certain parts of what he says that makes a lot of sense. But the district dern office from the Southern District of new york, theyre not commenting on this. Were not getting a lot of information as far as the scope and when and where, your basic five ws that we use in journalist, who, what, where, when, why. Exactly when it was that he got this immunity, exact whether i it was that he may have provided information, whether it be before a grand jury, whether it be just in conversations with prosecutors and the fbi. That type of information, that granular detail we dont yet have. You know, and so that takes us to the next point that Michael Avenatti races which is is this a backward looking for forwardlooking immunity. Right. In other words, is it something that was specific to the Michael Cohen investigation . Obviously now hes pled guilty so that kind of ends the process. Or is this something where hell be able to provide information Going Forward . It kwo appear to me, ways talking to some former prosecutors about this, that if this was forward, more corroboration Going Forward from here, that this might be memorialized a little bit of a different way. It may be a nonprosecution agreement, may be some sort of a Cooperation Agreement in lieu of charges. It may be a little bit more than just an immunity that he was granted. So were going to have to just follow this over the next couple of days. Right. Take a little bit a closer look at the Court Documents and see where this goes. But at that point we dont have an indication as far as whether or not this is something that has ended. Weisselberg did what his job was. Or that they want more stuff. Or that they want more out of him and theyll get more that could lead down other paths. At this point i would say its more likely he provided help in the past but well wait and see where the story goes. Lets go to Geoff Bennett in Columbus Ohio where the president has an event later today. The president didnt talk to reporters on his way to columbus, ohio. Any feedback from the white house on this particular this particular development about weisselberg . Reporter not on that specific issue. We can tell you for a president under siege coming to ohio is a bit of a sanctuary in the say state that he won the 2016 election. He still has a 91 Approval Rating among Ohio Republican voters, according to latest pole. So of course the question were all wondering is if hes going to say anything at all about his legal troubles. Theres one distinction worth pointing out. Had is not a typical trump rally set to happen. This is an annual gop party fundraiser. So that would suggest at least in some ways that President Trump might stick to the vipt but weve been wrong before. Prosecutors are Digging Deeper in President Trumps company and his charity. As we mentioned at the top of the show, nbc news has confirmed that Trump Organizational officer allen wiess he will brg got immunity for providing information we believe on the Michael Cohen investigation. This is the big deal because weisselberg is the money guy and on a secretly recorded trump he told trump that he spoke to weisselberg by buying the rights to playboy Karen Mcdougals story. I need to open up a company for the transfer of all of that info regarding our friend david, so that im going to do that right away. Give it to me. And ive spoken to Allen Weisselberg about how to set the whole thing up with what are we funding. Yes. This comes after a New York Times report that the Trump Organization and two Senior Company officials could be the next target of a criminal investigation. According to two officials familiar with the matter. Lets take a look at what we know about the case. According to Court Documents, Michael Cohen paid Stormy Daniels, stephanie clifford, 130,000 through a Wire Transfer on october 26, 2016. Take a look at this on the screen with me. Cohen told the court that the payment was for the principal purpose of influencing the election. This was on october 27, 2016. Now, on november 1st, just days before the election, daniels lawyer sent a signed nondisclosure agreement, an nda back to cohen. The wall start journal reported on this payment but without anyone involved talking the story flew under the radar, donald trump was elected a few days later as president. As the president elect who was preparing for the inauguration, cohen smaltd bill to the Trump Organization itemizing the hush money, the 35 Wire Transfer fee, and 50,000 listed aztec services, which were still trying to figure out what this 50,000 is. The executives at the company decided to gross up cohens 180,000 to 360,000 because after paying taxes hed end up with the amount that he paid out on behalf of trump. Cohen then submitted a fake invoice on valentines day listed as a retainer for services to a person named in the criminal information as executive number one. Nbc news has now confirmed that executive one is Trump Organization cfo Allen Weisselberg, thats according to a person with knowledge of the matter. Weisselberg forwarded the fake invoice to executive number two who approved the payment. Over the course of 2017, cohen submitted more fake invoices and each month the company paid him 35,000. The New York Times notes that the pent for making a false business entry with intent to defraud is a misdemeanor, but, if its done to commit or conceal another crime, then its a felony. Nbc news reached out to the Trump Organization for comment but has not received one. Lets bring in the experts. Joining me now, jill former assistant Watergate Special prosecutor and msnbc contributor Barbara Mcquade former District Attorney for the Eastern District of michigan and also an msnbc contributor. Barbara, let me start with you. What do crow make of this latest depu development . It cant be underscored that the didnt you u country didnt know the name of weisselberg, first got familiar with that name when the recording was released in which he talked to donald trump about consulting with weisselberg. What do you make of the fact that he now has some sort of an exmunt agreement . I think its very significant when immunity agreements are granted, they are not usually specific to one particular target like Michael Cohen in this instance. Its usually for any and all crimes that you have knowledge of. And so my guess is that weisselberg is talking about who his executive two, who else in the Trump Organization might have been involved in these payments, and could even incriminate the Trump Organization itself. So the fact that he thought he needed immunity suggests that he believed he had some criminal exposure himself. So this is a real gift to prosecutors because if they want to build a case now against other executives in the Trump Organization or trump himself, they dont need to use Michael Cohen as a witness who has a lot of baggage. In fact, that could explain why there was not a Cooperation Agreement along with his plea agreement that was entered the other day. Lets talk a little bit about the fact that new york state is now involved, the attorney general for new york is looking into has a complaint with the Trump Organization. This obviously complicates matters for the president because he keeps dangling these little pardons out there. Obviously he doesnt have pardon power over things having to do with the state. Tell me about how new york state and the feds are likely cooperating on this. Obviously the state has gotten the information from the investigation in the Southern District of new york and they are pursuing it. And you are correct, it is something that donald trump cannot pardon anyone for. So its significant. But i want to go back to something barbara said, because i think theres something really significant in the fact that they grossed up the amount. That shows that they knew that they were paying a sham invoice. If they had been actually reimbursing him, he wouldnt have to pay taxes on it because it would have been it would have been an expense. Exactly. So the only way they had to gross it up was because they were reporting it as income to him and they knew it wasnt really income, so they wanted to pay the taxes on it. So thats pretty clear proof that the Trump Organization is guilty. And, it also would be make the crime at the state level a felony because theyre concealing another crime. So i would say theres a couple of watergate analogies, which is what did the president know and when did he know it . Which is a question we know he knew before the payment because of that tape recording. But we need to know if he knew that the Trump Organization was doing all this illegal stuff. And, as barbara said, i think with weisselberg, there could be so many more crimes uncovered. And if hes smart and has a good immunity deal, he ought to get it all out now while he has immunity. And that could really lead to the downfall of the Trump Organization. And, barbara, lets talk about immunity. You then once youve gotten immunity deal, you cant then not testify about something and invoke the 5th amendment at that point because theyre not going to prosecute you, you are sort of compelled to say nefrg you know. Yeah, generally. Now it depends on what kind of immunity agreement they have. Sometimes its a Letter Agreement where they negotiate specific terms. Sometimes there is use immunity where you get a compulsion order from a court. Depends a little bit. But, yes, generally the idea is i have immunized you, you agree to talk to me, tell me everything you know, i agree not to use any of those statements against you uburr giving i your 5th amendment rights not to fef and incriminate yourself. I get to ask you anything i want to about any topic whatsoever. It would likely not be specific to one specific investigation for example Michael Cohen, but of any crimes that he knows of. As jill said, theres a real incentive in that situation for someone like weisselberg to volunteer everything he knows under that umbrella because he gets protection for everything that he talks about. Any crime hes ever committed, any crime he knows of, this is his moment to get it off his chest because theyre not going to use these statements against him. So, jill, whether youre talking about the mob or whether youre talking about corporate crimes like enron or things like that, generally speaking, once you have the key adviser, lawyertype and the money person, you can sort of piece the whole story together . Absolutely. And this is a reminder to me, i started out as an organized crime prosecutor at a time when the rack tier influence corrupt Organization Law just had passed. And im looking at a Rico Corporation right now. There are so many things that we could learn from weisselberg if he sticks to his immunity and goes forward. And barbaras right, it depends on whether he has specific transactions that hes immunized for or for just whatever he says. Either way, hed be smart to come forward with everything and to reveal what we all have wanted to know. And this might be the time finally for us to get the tax returns. Thats what we need to see what the president knew and when he knew it and what he did. Jill, good to talk to you. Thank you so much. Jill wine banks former assistant watergate prosecutor. Barbara mcquade is a former District Attorney for michigan. Coming up, im going to be jointed by a swror from the Paul Manafort trial. She says she owns a make America Great hat and that the Mueller Investigation is a witchhunt. But she whole heartedly believes that manafort is guilty. First, john mccain, as you herd is distipping treatment for the aggressive form of brain cancer hes been battling over a year. His family announcing the decision today. Well talk about the war hero, five time senator, and one time president ial candidate. Ive been making blades here at gillette for 20 years. Theres a lot of innovation that goes into making americas 1 shave. Precision machinery and highquality materials from around the world. Nobody else even comes close. Now starting at 7. 99. Gillette. The best a man can get. Inkporable. I fell in love with my count u cant when i was a prisoner in someone elses. I loved it not just for the many comforts of life here, i loved it for its decency, for its faith, and the wisdom, justice, and goodness of its people. I was never the same again. I wasnt my own manny more. I was my countrys. [ applause ] that was arizona senator john mccain when he accepted the republican president ial nomination in 2008. Today we learn that the longtime law maker and war hero has decided to end treatment for brain cancer. His family said in a statement, our family is immensely grateful for the support and kindness of all his caregivers over the last year, and for the continuing outpouring of concern and affection from johns many friends and associates and the many thousands of people who are keeping him in their prayers. Joining us now to talk about this is nbc chief Foreign Affairs correspondent Andrea Mitchell who has covered mccain for many years. Andrea, its something that people dont even know how to think about with john mccain because the guy is defined by the fact that hes a fighter, he was a war hero, he was captured, beaten, tortured. He continues to be a thorn in the side of anybody on any party whos the president. So the concept of him saying the end is near, this is not a fight im going to continue, is kind of hard to imagine. It is. And its not something he would willingly discontinue. But the fact is that the ravages of the treatment for the brain cancer and also his age and Everything Else that hes suffered, we know that hes had several attacks of very serious melanoma in the past. So he has fought through all of this. And fought through also the disability, really, that he ignored as best could. You know he can barely lift one arm. All the things that happened to him in that prison, when he refused Early Release, his father was the admirable in charge of the whole operation in the south pacific, and he refused Early Release that he was offered because that would be against against the moral code. Yeah. The military code. The fact that he was shot down, he returned to active duty after being after his plane and he were and his colleagues were on the deck after that fuel tank explosion earlier in the war, and continued with some 20 or 30 more missions. Its unbelieve able. This man has simply been unbelievable in all of his life. Weve all had our scraps with him, weve seen the ups and downs, he could be contanker russ, but never more gracious than in defeat, in conceding defeat to barack obama in 2008. There was a town hall which always stands out to me, the town hall in which a woman asked a question that was circulating in large part because of donald trump, but a question circulating about bah brack obama citizenry and birth. I got to ask you a question. I do not believe i cant trust obama. I got it. I have read about him and hes not hes not hes a hes an arab. He is not. Nom. Nom. No . Nom. Nom. Hes a hes a decent, family man, citizen that i just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues. And thats what this campaign is all about. Hes not. Didnt go over well with everybody that he didnt sort of go along with what this woman had to say about barack obama. But john mccain was his own man then and hes had some missteps in his political career, but he has largely been defined by being his own man and saying what he believes. And never more so than in that moment when the election was still very much in play and never more so than in his final big speech on the senate floor. Were talking about july 25th, back in 2017, it was only a few weeks after had he been diagnosed. He returned to the senate and he gave that searing speech chastising his colleagues for being so partisan and said dont listen to the television and radio and internet, do what is right. Reach across the aisles. And he really chided them. It was a searing speech and then three days later he voted the decisive vote against the repeal of boehm car of obamacare. Theyve had a contentious history starting back in the primaries. We thought in that very first debate when donald trump said that john mccain was not a hero because had he been captive. Yeah. Or earlier in an interview have some donald trump went to unveil the defense spending bill named for john mccain and didnt say john mccains name once in that presentation. He in fact renamed the bill the National Defense authorization act rather than calling it john mccain defense act. It had been named for him in honor of him and it was a tribute to john mccain. They know how ill he is and been is trying struggling. Joe biden, his son died from the same brain cancer. Teddy den e kennedy and someone across the aisle with whom john mccain worked on defense bills. John mccain was close to Hillary Clinton because she traveled with him on congressional delegations to iraq and afghanistan. Hes worked with dick durbin and Amy Klobuchar and other liberal democrats because hes found ways to agree. We all know about Joe Lieberman and that relationship. This is a painful moment for friends, admirers, and perhaps a teaching moment that john mccain, from his generations of military service, four generations in this family. Hes a man well regard even by his adversaries and his opponents. Thanks very much. Up next, ill be joined by a juror from the Paul Manafort trial. A fierce supporter of President Trump who says just one juror was the hold out on those ten deadlocked charges. Well take you inside that jury room. Youre watching msnbc. George woke up in pain. But he has plans today. So he took aleve this morning. Hey dad. If hed taken tylenol, hed be stopping for more pills right now. Only aleve has the strength stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. Tylenol cant do that. Aleve. All day strong. All day long. Now introducing aleve back and muscle pain, for up to 12 hours of pain relief with just one pill. Mom okay we need to get all your School Supplies today. School. Grade. Done. Done. Hit the Snooze Button and get low prices on School Supplies all summer long. Like these for only 2 or less at office depot officemax. Special Counsel Robert Mueller and his team have until wednesday ton decide whether to retry former Trump Campaign chair Paul Manafort on the ten charges that ended in a mistrial. Earlier this week a federal jury in virginia found manafort guilty on eight of the 18 charges. But what happened in the jury room . Why couldnt they reach an agreement . One member of the jury said they would have convicted manafort on all charges if it hadnt been for one holdout juror. The woman who said that, paula dunk can, joins me now. Thank you for joining us and thank you for your service to the country adds a juror. Had is something so many people do we dont generally get to talk all that much about it. I know you spoke to my colleague, ken dilanian. You have a make America Great cap in your car. Youre a strong donald trump supporter. I have a donald trump supporter. And i dont think that had any bearing on my ability to be a juror. There are people who say that it might have, but it didnt obviously because i found Paul Manafort guilty on all 18 counts. So the hold out insisted she had reasonable doubt. The other 11 jurors put information in front of her again and again and she still said she had reasonable doubt. We came to an impasse where nothing was going to make a difference. She was she had her mind made up and we finally just said, okay, were going to have to be hung on those ten counts. What do you think about the judge, ts ellis . There were a lot of people who thought at the beginning of the trial he didnt favor the prosecution, he he was working against them. And he definitely shared a view of yours well, at least a view that youve articulated that this maybe wasnt all about Paul Manafort, there may have been something here to do with donald trump sfl at the beginning the trial started out that way. The prosecution again and again would bring up the russian oligarchs which manafort had worked for and tried to tie it into the russian issue with trump. And i think the judge just got really fed up and hed had nu enough, so he laid down the law, so to speak and they then from that point on focused as judge ellis said, sharply focused on the issues that manafort was being charged for. You didnt go in there thinking or necessarily having decided as a jury should, shouldnt decide, you were willing to give manafort the benefit of the doubt. You were prepared to find him not guilty . Oh, absolutely. As a swror itjuror its your responsibility, as judge ellis said, to assume that the defense team and the defendant is innocent of all charges. He has the presumption of innocence. Then, you apply with Due Diligence all of the information that youre provided, your thoughts, your impressions, and you make a judgment. And thats what we did. Did you the prosecutions star witness, rick gates, youre saying that he didnt have that much of an impact on you . No. Most of us just threw that whole witness out because he had something to gain by saying what he said and we thought that didnt make him a credible witness. We didnt like it that he took a plea deal and so, yeah, we threw that one out for the most part. But his name was all over the paperwork. But you really relied on the paperwork. You relied on the evidence more than the testimony . We did, ali, and there was a lot of it. There was a lot of paper. Four full paper boxes of evidence. Yeah. I as a republican, and a republican president President Trump, i i really hoped that Paul Manafort was innocent, and he wasnt. Do i think trump knew that when trump hired him . No, i dont. I think trump hired him because he was great at his job, and all the witnesses said that. They said he was brilliant as a political strategist and its just a shame that he thought he was above the law. No one is above the law. Ive taken a lot of heat because i chose to present myself as a trump supporter and i did that because i thought it was important for america to know that its your civic duty to be a juror and an unbiased juror. And thats what i was. And our nation is so divided anymore, and we need to come together and support one another. You know, i propose we have a cap that says make america kind again. We just need more tolerance. And we talk about tolerance, but we need to practice it. Make america kind again. Paul, lets make that cap and you and i will have the first two to wear it. I will have it ready to go from make america kind again. Thanks very much for your service. Thanks, ali. Paulas iowas a juror in the Paul Manafort trial. President trump has just arrived in columbus, ohio for an event tonight. Up next were going inside the echo chamber that the white house memo accuses former aides to former president obama accusing Trumps Administration of ill be joined by the National Security adviser to president obama who the memo quotes is likely the brains behind this operation. Youre watching msnbc. craig and sheila broke up. What, really . Craig and shelia broke up . No, craig . What happened . I dont know. Is she okay . Craig and sheila broke up craig and sheila . As long as Office Gossip travels fast, you can count on geico saving folks money. Craig and sheila broke up what . Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. Its a revolution in sleep. The new sleep number 360 smart bed is on sale now, from 899, during sleep numbers biggest sale of the year. It senses your movement, and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable. It even helps with this. So you wake up ready to put your pedal to the metal. And now, all beds are on sale. 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Decrease alcohol use while taking chantix. Use caution when driving or operating machinery. The most common side effect is nausea. My favorite role so far . Being a nonsmoker. No question about it. Talk to your doctor about chantix. President trump regularly kris criticizes former president barack obama and members of his administration. Now were getting a new look at how the Trump Administration officials reportedly view their predecessors. The new yorker obtained a memo reportedly circulated inside the white house in early 2017. It describes a group of basically Administration Officials as the, quote, echo chamber. If accuses them of trying to undermine trumps foreign policy. The memo said the group was led by former deputy National Security adviser ben rhodes and collin cal, vice Vice President National Security adviser. All the people named in the memo held top jobs in the white house, National Security counsel, or the state department. Rhodes and cal denied the allegations and say that no such artion girts. Joining us now is ben rhodes, the alleged ring leader of the echo chamber who is now an name contributor. Hes also the author of the world as what are you hiding . Im coming to you from deep in the mountains where im leading this effort. Look, the concerning thing about this is this was written like a National Security document. Apparently emanating from the National Security council. A serious document. Yeah. Its not supposed to be a Political Agency at the nsc. Youre supposed to coordinate the government, politics is supposed to be out of that. The fact of the matter this they had people sitting around spending their time who are supposed to be keeping our country safe, instead coming up with these conspiracy theories, its concerning that thats what people are doing who are supposed to be protecting america, that mindset is so deeply embedded inside the white house weve seen in other things, and frankly it mirrors the type of investigation that we learned the firm black cube did into my family and Collins Family thats razz questions about whether the Trump White House was behind hiring a foreign intelligence entity to dig up dirt on its predecessors. Its very bizarre. So heres where the line becomes difficult to understand. You guys were all National Security officials who worked for an administration, so there are things around which you may be like minded or things around which you came to be like minded because you worked on particular policies. Whats the line here . Is this the deep state argument . Is this the since you all worked for obama on National Policy issues, this is the evidence that theres you know, what are we what do you think it is . Whats the point . Well, this is whats strange about it. Look, obviously we all worked in the obama white house. We all have our own views. We all speak our mind when we leave the white house. Thats clear. And people can see us doing that. Some of those friends of mine have podcasts that a lot of people listen to. Whats strange about this is it constructs this kind of deep state network where all were doing, were in touch with each other. Were brainwashing the media around certain narratives that potentially were working with who are still in government to undermine trump. This Conspiracy Theory mindset that sees normal opposition discourse. Right. As something much more nefarious. I think it connects directly to what we saw with john brennan where just people leaving government speaking their mind is somehow not welcome in this country. And frankly, that mental maps us out the same way that i read memos that mapped out terrorist organizations. So theyre defining as an enemy of the american government, normal dissent, and, again, giving us much more agency than we normally have. Normal dissent becomes a lot more nefarious when you associate it with the deep state. Good to see you. S a a former security adviser in the obama administration. Up next, has this week given the impeached Trump Movement a sfwhooft one of my next guests says yes. But hes been leading the charge to get trump out of the white house for months. Youre watching msnbc. I wanted to fight back. My doctor and i came up with a plan. It includes preservision. Only Preservision Areds 2 has the exact nutrient formula recommended by the National Eye Institute to help reduce the risk of progression of moderate to advanced amd. Thats why i fight. Because its my vision. Preservision. Also, in a greattasting chewable. So, howell. Going . We had a vacation early in our marriage that kinda put us in a hole. Go someplace exotic . Yeah, bermuda. A hospital in bermuda. A hospital in bermuda. What . What happened . I got a little overconfident on a moped. Even with insurance, we had to dip into our 401 k so it set us back a little bit. Sometimes you dont have a choice. But it doesnt mean you cant get back on track. Great. Yeah, great. Id like to go back to bermuda. I hear its nice. Yeah, id like to see it. No judgment. Just guidance. Td ameritrade. If your moderate to severeor crohns symptoms are holding you back, and your Current Treatment hasnt worked well enough it may be time for a change. Ask your doctor about entyvio®, the only biologic developed and approved just for uc and crohns. Entyvio® works at the site of inflammation in the gi tract, and is clinically proven to help many patients achieve both symptom relief and remission. Infusion and serious allergic reactions can happen during or after treatment. 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And if it seems like weve said that almost every day this week, its because, well, we have. Heres a quick reminder of everything thats gone down. On tuesday within minutes of each other the president s former personal attorney Michael Cohen pleaded guilty and the president s former Campaign Chairman Paul Manafort was convicted. On thursday news broke that trumps close friend and head of the National Enquirer david pecker got immunity for information on payments to cover up alleged affairs and other bad news. And earlier today we learned trumps long time Financial Officer of the Trump Organization Allen Weisselberg also got immunity for his cooperation. So as the walls close in on the president , the word impeachment is on the tip of more and more tongues, even the president s. I dont i dont know how you can impeach somebody whos done a great job. Ill tell you what. If i ever got impeached i think the market would crash. All right. Weve already gone through that, thats not a reasonable conclusion. But joining me now is tom, a man whos been publicly calling for the publics impeachment for nearly a year and Gathering Signatures to get that done. Im also joined by Roland Martin, my old friend and the upcoming podcast rolandmartinunfiltered. Tom, you and i have been talking about this a lot. Has something changed in your world of an attempt to convince people that donald trump needs to be impeached in the last week . Well, ali, weve seen evidence of this president s lawlessness for a long time. What changed this week was the evidence was certified by the American Court system. We had his Campaign Chairman be convicted of eight felony counts and we had his longtime personal lawyer plead out to eight felony counts and implicate the president in two of those felony crimes. So its not that the news is new because weve seen lawlessness from this president on virtually a daily basis. But what is new is the courts are saying this you can take this to the bank, it absolutely happened. So, rolland, there are a lot of democrats in congress and grattic leaders who dont go as far as tom does. Theyre cautious about having conversations around impeachment and maybe theyre hoping in the midterms the democrats will take the house and that in 2020 donald trump will be will be thrown out of office or not elected again. Whats your take on whether or not people should be focussing on impeachment . It will, its a slow build. What immediately came to mind for me is the late football announcer keith jackson. Whoa, nelly. Because its one after the other. And see, every time trump lies, ive been using the trumpliesmatter since the election. So now what we have is not just well, cohen said something in a television and then trump lying in a tweet. Now we have someone standing before a court saying, yes, i was directed to do this. And so then we play the tape. Trump on air force one saying, oh, no, i didnt know anything about it. He talks to fox news, well, i knew about it later on, but i paid out of my own money as if thats a totally different deal. Every time he opens his mouth he is simply making it easier so thats really what is going on here. And so you do reach a point where even not necessarily your staunchest supporters, look, man, youre making it hard for me to keep defending you if you keep lying and you get busted lying with tapes and with evidence. Yeah. Tom, let me ask you this. Do you find it frustrating that when you speak to democrats in office and others, theyre not on this ride yet . Well, ali, who i really speak to is actual american voters. I actually dont spend any of my time talking to elected officials. Actually what were doing is collecting signatures from american citizens and ive been on a 30city town hall tour of america talking to voters about this president and this administration. So what i really see is a very dramatic break between american citizens and the washington establishment on this thats a problem, right . You were at an event in the last few weeks there were senators and other people up there, and they werent they werent sort of latching onto your idea that the work to be done is to get the president impeached. Well, i do read the papers, ali, and i can see the washington establishment en masse saying, we dont want to talk about this president s lawlessness. We dont want to talk about the corruption that is so much a part of his life and his administration. But i dont think we can deal with the real issues facing americans until we get rid of a dramatically reckless, dangerous and lawless president and get on with our lives. Ali, what this is doing, what tom is doing forget the folks in d. C. , okay, because theyre going to always be cautious. Thats why ideally their messaging doesnt matter. Its what happens in individual congressional districts. What is happening here are youre seeing americans who are saying integrity matters, okay. At some point it cant be, well, thats just trump being trump. No. When you constantly lie, every single day, media folks are starting to say, this is a lie. Calling those things out. He chastises the media for holding him accountable. At some point people of conscience go, this is not how i want a president to behave, a president to act. And then again when he says one thing and heres the tape, heres what you said, here is this, now you have cohen, now you have the cfo, now youre going to have david pecker. When you see folks getting immunity deals thats a whole different deal than i got interviewed. What tom is doing is forcing people to say, return to a nation with a president has integrity. Obama eight years, zero indictments. Zero convictions. Nearly two years of trump, how many indictments . How many convictions . Case closed. All right. Well leave it there, guys. Thanks very much. Tom good to see you as always. Tom steyer founder of next gen america. Efforts to impeach donald trump. Rome martin host of upcoming podcast Roland Martin unfiltered. Cant say that without smiling. If anybody has seen Roland Martin unfiltered, please tweet me. I can kus, just kidding. Lets talk about this. In hawaii, the place getting battered by hurricane lane. The category 2 storm has dumped nearly 2 feet of rain in some areas triggering catastrophic flooding and landslides. Were live in maui after the break where some are without power. Forecasters are saying no one there is safe. Youre watching msnbc. I get unlimited 1. 5 cash back. Its so simple, i dont even have to think about it. So i think about the details. Fine, i obsess over the details. Introducing chase ink business unlimited with unlimited 1. 5 cash back on every purchase. To me, hes, phil micwell, dad. O golfer. So when his joint pain from Psoriatic Arthritis got really bad, it scared me. And what could that pain mean . 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Go to priceline to get deals you wont find anywhere else. Ive been making blades here at gillette for 20 years. Theres a lot of innovation that goes into making americas 1 shave. Precision machinery and highquality materials from around the world. Nobody else even comes close. Now starting at 7. 99. Gillette. The best a man can get. Hurricane lane is now category 2 storm. Its dropping dangerous amounts of rain on hawaii. One island got as much as 35 inches of rain in 48 hours. Lane is still packing winds of up to 110 Miles Per Hour as it slowly makes its way north toward the main islands. Nbcs Steve Patterson joins us from the harbor on maui where conditions will are getting worse. Steve . Reporter ali, nobody should be fooled. This is the beginning stages of this storm. As we sort of been mentioning, the winds picking up, the rain now significantly starting to fall. Well get into pockets where it kind of lulls a little bit and hits us in the face pretty good. Behind me, i dont know how well you can see, but the surf is rolling in pretty good. The waves are coming in smacking the shoreline at a significant rate. You will still see surfers and people sort of still out here. The locals not too affected by whats happening now. But it will be a Significant Impact here on maui. In the meantime, this storm has already been striking big island hard, as you mentioned, some pockets 10, some pockets 20, some pockets 30 inches of rain in a very short amount of time. That is cause for concern for emergency officials who are now cautioning people to get ready, to hunker down for a significant amount of time. Were talking up to 14 days making sure youre stocked up with food, making sure youre stocked up with water, and thats because of how slow this storm is moving. Thats not a good thing. This storm started moving as it started at about 7 miles an hour, then it significantly slowed to 5 miles. Now its estimated to be moving at 2 miles an hour. That is a slow, slow, slow storm. That can mean a significant rain total which is the most dangerous part of this storm. The amount of rain, the torrential rain, the flooding, flash flooding, storm surge, all of that could cause a whole lot of problems as this storm moves on into the weekend and lingers causing even more problems, ali. All right. That is always the danger when it is a slowmoving storm. It gives more time for the damage to be done, for the wind to blow and the rain to fall. Steve, thanks very much. Well continue our coverage from hawaii with Steve Patterson. That is it for me for this our hour, though, ill see you back here at 9 00 p. M. For the Rachel Maddow show. Have a great weekend. Deadline white house with Nicolle Wallace starts right s hi, everyone. Its 4 00 in new york. My heart and thoughts and prayers are in arizona. Senator john mccain has chose enz to stop all medical treatment for brain cancer. He bravely shared with the world a year ago, friends and family are traveling to arizona. The Statement Reads in part, quote, john has su partly sunny r passed expectations for his survival, but the progress of disease and inexorable advance of age render their verdict. He has chosen to discontinue medical treatment. John mccain is a giant in american politics, having run twice for president under the banners of the straighttalk express and country first. Seto