Transcripts For MSNBCW MSNBC Live With Katy Tur 20180416

Cohen, his lawyers, and attorneys for President Trump, a separate one for Michael Cohen, are all going to get together inside this courtroom in manhattan. Stormy daniels, as well, who was paid off by cohen to keep quiet about an alleged affair with mr. Trump. It is all setting the stage for a highly unusual courtroom confrontation between all of them right now. And this will be cohens First Court Appearance since fbi agents raided his home, office and hotel room last week. The agents seized Electronics Devices and an untold number of documents that both the cohen and trump legal teams want to stop investigators from seeing. As i just said a moment ago. In the last 24 hours both have filed motions with the court. Cohens team is demanding the appointment of a special master who would review seized documents before investigators, and that person would determine what is protected by attorneyclient privilege. They are arguing the special master will protect the integrity of the governments investigation from the toxic partisan politics of the day and attacks on the impartiality of the Justice Department and the u. S. Attorneys office. We should note, no one has attacked the Justice Department more viciously than cohens primary client, the president of the United States. Still, that is what cohens team is arguing. The filing by the president s lawyer goes much further. In a move some legal experts have called unprecedented with be they have asked that the president himself be allowed to review material before investigators. The request came hours after this angry tweet by the president. Attorneyclient privilege is now a thing of the past. All lawyers are deflated and concerned. The big question that we are asking today, what is the president worried investigators might find . What the president is requesting, what cohen and the president are requesting, is really unheard of. Its signaling that theyre very afraid of what the government is going to see in those materials. Fbi, department of justice would have had to have had compelling evidence of potential criminal activity for them to conduct this type of surveillance against an individual who has worked closely with mr. Trump over the course of many years. What do you think is going to happen with Michael Cohen . I think Michael Cohen is in a lot of trouble. While we monitor whats happening inside that courtroom, lets bring in our reporters and analysts. Nbcs jeff bennett at the white house. Danny savalos, criminal defense attorney and msnbc legal analyst. Jonathan lamier, an msnbc political analyst. Paul fishman, former u. S. Attorney for the district of new jersey. Danny, how rare is it for the president s legal team to say, hey, no, the president of the United States, y should look atl these materials first before investigators get hold of them . To use a legal term, it is superduper rare for this to happen. These cases are rare to begin with. As it is, trump is not a party or subject in this case. Hes intervening on in the underlying matter. So in other words, cohen could arguably make this case for trump, but their interests are not perfectly aligned so trump comes if had and says, hey, im a potential victim here of these documents that are seized so i should be allowed to be heard so there is a question whether or not trump even has standing to intervene. If he does have standing, complaining about taint teams is, well, its done before. Courts have expressed their concern with the use of a taints team. But on the whole, taint teams have been approved, albeit grudgingly by the courts. So theres nothing about the taint team itself that is, per se, unconscionable. And it couldnt heradoesnt herf the attorneyclient relationship. Because to get to this stage, the government has had to make such a showing of probable cause that at least a judge has concluded that this warrant is warranted. So, paul, the attorneys for Michael Cohen are arguing because this is so highprofile, because this is so unprecedented, because there are all these attacks on the judicial system, attacks on the department of justice, that there should be somebody else thats overseeing all of this. That the as danny will call it the taint team theres got to be a better teamfilter t. Filter team. That theyre not necessarily going to be impartial enough. They need a special master, special prosecutor is maybe how you would like to think of it in your head considering we are already dealing with another one of them, who would look at this first and say, im totally independent here, im going to decide what is attorneyclient privileged and what is not. Given that, how likely is it that this judge is going to say yes, maybe a special master is a good idea . First of all, one thing the judge is not going to do is revisit the substance of the search warrant. The magistrate judge has found theres probable cause that a crime was committed, and probably cause that theres evidence of that crime or those crimes. In all of the locations that were searched. Which dont just include Michael Cohens office, but his house, his hotel room, his phones, and even his safe deposit box. Thats the first thing. The second is that this sort of thing that happens, dannys right doesnt happen every day but it is not all that unusual for the Justice Department to search a lawyers office. Lawyers commit crimes and sometimes they help their clients commit crimes. There is this procedure thats been set in place for a long time where the Justice Department, fbi agents and prosecutors who are not actually part of the Investigative Team are the ones who conduct the search. The people who went to all those locations were not people actually working on the case. Then they segregate all of that material so that the people who are doing the investigation dont get tainted, which is why it is called a tainting, by stuff that theyre not supposed to see. And it does happen a lot. Danny is right, sometimes judges dont love it so much. But the alternative is a special master, a special master is a lawyer often or another judge appointed by the court who will go through all the documents, him or herself, and then decide whether they are privileged or not privileged. Often with input from both sides. The downside of that from the governments perspective is its very time consuming. It takes a long time. Its very involved. Special master doesnt know very much about the case at all, so it can be quite pains tataking quite contentious. Defense lawyers on the other hand are worried about bias and speed, the taint team wont know whats privileged and whats not. But the way this usually gets work out is a dialogue between the u. S. Attorneys office and the defense lawyers, those representing the lawyer or the subject of the investigation or the clients, who have conversations about what might or might not be protectable. There was also reporting today that said that federal investigators said that Michael Cohen doesnt do that much legal work, that he has a handful of clients, only three of them could be considered clients in a lawyerly capacity. And that, all told, he has been acting more as Something Else as an advisor, maybe, but not necessarily as a lawyer. Does that make it easier for the judge to say, hey, listen, this is a bit overboard to ask for a special master. A filter team can go through this. It is a very significant point. And look today for cohens team and trumps team to build the case that Michael Cohen is a lawyer, someone who represents a lot of clients. It is in his interest to do so because hes perceived as practicing law, the more that privilege will apply. If instead he is a lawyer who happens to be a lawyer but is primarily a businessman and that will be the governments position here then theres very little attorneyclient privilege that will attach. Leading cases in this jurisdiction deal with the concern that attaches when a raid is executed on, for example, a criminal defense attorney handling a number of criminal defendants. And a concern is that the government would use this as an end runaround actually discovering things about targets or subjects of investigation. And instead just get into the Attorneys Office and find all the privileged materials. Thats not the case here. Cohen is not a criminal defense attorney. Cohen, arguably, the government will make the point, that he isnt that much of a practicing attorney at all, and therefore, there is very little concern about privilege. Paul, i want to get something clear though. Is it likely that the judge is going to scoff at this idea that cohens legal team is saying we want to keep this impartial because of the way the Justice Department has been impugned, the way the Justice Department has been attack in a partisan way considering that the president is the one thats attacking the Justice Department, cohens own client is the one attacking the Justice Department . There is some irony there, i think at the very least. And, look, danny makes a really good point about the purpose of the search and what cohens dealings were. If you look at the governments brief, what it says is that they are primarily looking at cohens financial dealings. It doesnt really talk about his relationships with his clients or his relationship with the president. They have already searched Michael Cohens emails. Before this whole ker if you havele over the search of his office. They say there were no emails they saw at all between the president and mike the cohen. Jonathan, lets get the politics of this. The president sis unnerved by this investigation, even more specifically than the Mueller Investigation. Hes lost his cool on twitter more about this investigation going into his lawyer than he has in the past, or at least a little bit more frequently than he has the special counsel. Why is he so nervous about Michael Cohen . It is because of who Michael Cohen is and what hes done and what he might know. Its exactly right. Our reporting indicates that trump advisors both inside and outside the white house, the president himself, are more unnerved by this than they are of the ongoing russia probe. The sheer amount of exposure. He likes to call himself ray donovan for donald trump. Hes someone beyond making bad stories go away, whether it is a payoff to Stormy Daniels or perhaps working with the National Enquirer to catch and kill an unflattering story about the president , he also was sort of one of the lead dealmakers for the Trump Organization in some shadowy markets, some shadowy overseas markets who knows things about how certain deals were done win the Trump Organization which impacts not the president but his adult children. And i think there is a concern among trump allies that Michael Cohen, who is selfproclaimed as loyal as he can be to the president , who has said he would take a bullet for donald trump. At the same time we have seen rick gates, mike the flynn, others, take deals. Weve got some reporting that people around cohen who cohen has expressed some nervousness that he could be a fall guy. And there are people close to the president who feel like at some point cohen might pick his family and his newt and not want to spent decades in prison rather than protect donald trump. Well see about that. Jeff, you are with the president in florida. You are not at the white house. Whats going on down there . Is this court case today or this hearing today coming up at all among the president s team . Not publicly. But one imagines the president will be paying close attention to what unravels inside that court for the many reasons weve talk about so far. Hes here hosting the Prime Minister of japan for a week. Theyre going to talk about north korea, about trade. One imagines this might have been an intentional scheduling distraction, given that the white house knew that this week was also going to be the expected book tour blitz by james comey. But to jonathans earlier point about Michael Cohen, white house officials choose their words very care from i when asked about all of this. You remember on friday, Sarah Sanders wouldnt even say for sure whether Michael Cohen even still represents the president given now that we know he is still the subject of a criminal investigation, according to the Justice Department. This is the thing the president s been seething over. This is the real Inflection Point causing the president to erupt and the talks ongoing by his team and the special counsel team broke down all over this. Its just one indication of the president s anger and fury over those fbi raids. Paul, what are you going to be watching for today . Im going to want to see what the judge ultimately does here. What i expect she will do is come up with some sort of compromise. Shell let the government proceed but insist i think that the government consult, as they already offered to do, with defense counsel to try to make sure this comes out right as quickly as possible. It is in everybodys interest at this point for obvious reasons to make sure this is done exactly right but to also make sure it is done quickly and efficiently. Guys, thank you very much. Slippery, out of whack, not smart. That was just in one of the president s many tweets about james comey. But could the fired fbis director new tellall book help prove obstruction by the president . Thats coming up next. People said it just made a mess until exxonmobil scientists put it to the test. They thought someday it could become fuel and power our cars wouldnt that be cool . And thats why exxonmobil scientists think its not small at all. Energy lives here. You know whats not awesome . Gigspeed internet. When only certain people can get it. Lets fix that. Lets give this guy gig really . And these kids, and these guys, him, ah. Oh hello. That lady, these houses yes, yes and yes. And dont forget about them. Uh huh, sure. Still yes xfinity delivers gig speed to more homes than anyone. Now you can get it, too. Welcome to the party. We are still watching the courtroom in Downtown Manhattan where the president s attorney, Michael Cohen, Donald Trumps attorneys, and Stormy Daniels are all this hour there for a hearing. Cohens attorneys are arguing that materials seized in last weeks raids are protected by attorneyclient privilege. Well keep watching this and bring you in me developments as they happen. Youve probably seen a lot of Michael Cohen on tv today but youve also seen a lot of james comey speaking out about the release of his new book. There are no indispensable people. Firing me didnt change the nature of the fbi. Those folks will pursue the truth. If that were to happen, it should be a wakeup call, a blaring alarm for everybody, regardless of your political affiliation, that that is something the American People, and their representatives, should care deeply about. Because that is an attack on who we are. In that last clip from usa today, hes talking about what should happen if. President tries to fire Robert Mueller. I dont buy this stuff about him being mentally incompetent or early stages of dementia. He strikes me as a person of aboveaverage intelligence whos trabi i tracking conversations and knows whats going on. I dont think hes mentally unfit to be president. I think hes ethically unfit to be president. Morally unfit. He lies constantly about matters big and small and insist the American People believe it, that person is not fit to be president of the United States on moral grounds. One of the Big Questions folks are asking today is did the president see that interview. White house says he only watched bits and pieces and the president himself was mum when pressed by reporters outside of the white house this morning. Did you watch the interview, mr. President . Did you watch james comey . But as is often the case, there was a tweet oh, theres always a tweet. Comey drafted the crooked hillary exoneration long before he talk to her, lied in congress to senator g, then based his decisions on her poll numbers. Disgruntled, he, mccabe, and the others, committed many crimes Kimberly Atkins is a chief white house reporter, washington reporter for the boston herald. Also an msnbc contributor. Bobby ciccone is a former special agent for the fbi. The book tour is not going to go away. President is clearly very, very angry about james comey. Hes going to be front and certain on tv and radio for weeks. Youll see headlines about this book. How is the president going to handle it Going Forward . Had. I think we have an idea about how he will handle it if we look at how he reacted to Hillary Clintons book tour. He was frequently on twitter, finding new names to call Hillary Clinton and other people within her orbit, including james comey, someone who factored into the election. So clearly hes unhappy. We knew he was unhappy when he fired off a string of tweets yesterday before the interview even aired just in reaction to the excerpts from james comeys book thats coming out. And given from what were hearing from james comey, someone who is former fbi director, really talked about wanting to stay out of of the political fray, hes on tv talking about everything to the most salacious details of the infamous dossier to the size of the president s hands. I mean those are the triggers that are clear, very likely to get the president very angry and be taken as a personal attack and make him attack back. Kimberly, well use you in your dual role as reporter and lawyer for a moment. How should the president s lawyers tell him to handle it . Or how are you president s lawyers telling him to handle it . Well, what they should do is what they should have been doing for a long time, to tell him to keep quiet with respect to anything involving the ongoing to Mueller Investigation because the things that he says on twitter can be used as evidence against him, can be used to impeach his credibility, can be used in a number of ways. But hes not doing that. Hes keep his own counsel and deciding that hes his best messenger. Either he is not being told this or hes not listening to his lawyers advice. In that case, this is no different. Speaking of the Mueller Investigation, here is what james comey says about Donald Trumps relationship with russia. Do you think President Trump has been compromised by the russians . I dont know. These are words i never thought would come out of my mouth about an american president , but its possible. Im not saying it is likely. I dont know the honest answer is its possible. He wont criticize vladimir putin, even in private, even in a meeting with three people in the oval office, sitting with the person in charge of countering the russia threat in the United States . Privately not being willing to do that . That always struck me. Bobby, you worked with james comey. Whats it take for a former fbi director to say that on National Television about a sitting president whos currently under investigation . Well, i think this has moved beyond this being the former fbi director. I think this whole thing has gotten very personal between comey and trump. So i think comeys kind of put himself beyond the pale of an fbi director. Talking about the size of trumps hand and how he treats women. This is all beyond what an fbi director should or could competently discuss. The fact that hes saying now its possible or he doesnt know whether he colluded im sure Robert Mueller is not very happy with that. If he is in fact a potential witness in the ongoing probe, even for obstruction of justice or anything else, you want your witnesses out of the public eye as much as possible, creating as little impeachment material on cross examination for potential Defense Attorneys in the future as possible. So i dont take this as the former fbi director saying that the president he cant tell whether the president colluded with russia or not based on his limited amount of contact. So i think this has gone comey himself has put himself beyond this being louis freeh against bill clinton type situation. What do you think is the perception of the investigation . What does this do . Comeys book, these interviews he is doing, do to the perception of this investigation, bobby . Well, i always like my investigations to be kept as quiet as possible for as long as possible. I like my defense counsel to know as little as possible for as long as possible. And so this brings it back front and center. It drags the fbi back into this political discussion about the behavior of certain things in the fbi. I think it would have been best served had he not pub accomplished the book at this time. As long as he goes to a prepublication review with the fbi, follows the policy and rules he is free to do whatever he wants. But pie own personal feelings i wish he had not pub accomplished the book now. Im pretty sure Robert Mueller and members of Robert Muellers team probably wish he hadnt publish the book at this point. This kind of plays, kimberly, into what the white house wants to say about james comey, that hes a showboat, you cant really listen to him because he is just trying to make money off a book hes writing about the president. I think thats right. Even people who support james comey who believes he is telling the truth are saying that hes coming off as sort of an arrogant guy who has a personal bone to pick with President Trump more so than a former fbi director whos explaining his side of the story of what led up to his firing and what possibly happened afterwards. And, look, anybody has the ability anybody can have an opinion about a president s fitness for office or about some of the other things that james comey is talking about. But at the end of the day you have both the Trump Administration and Hillary Clintons Campaign Camp coming after him and assailing him. It seems that james comeys giving them all the ammunition that they need to make the claims against him. Yeah. Kimberly atkins, bobby ciccone, thanks, guys. James comey will sit down with pie colleague, rachel maddow, for a live interview at 9 00 p. M. Eastern thursday. Next to the weekends air strikes in syria which President Trump called mission accomplished. But is there a mission . Or, for that matter, a longterm strategy in syria . W you were saving other home s. Neighbors helping neighbors and strangers alike. This is what americas about. Sometimes its nice to see all the good thats out there. Bringing folks out, we have seen it in community after community. Yes or no . Gin. Do you want the same tools and seamless experience across web and tablet . Do you want 4. 95 commissions for stocks, 0. 50 options contracts . 1. 50 futures contracts . What about a dedicated service team of trading specialists . Did you say yes . Good, then its time for power e trade. The platform, price and service that gives you the edge you need. Looks like we have a couple seconds left. Lets do some card twirling twirling cards e trade. The original place to invest online. Where were changing withs . Contemporary makeovers. Then, use the ultimate power handshake, the upper hander with a double palm grab. Who has the upper hand now . Start winning today. Book now at lq. Com. Handcrafted layers of clean food you can give your kids. Tomatoes. Even the picky ones. Panera. Food as it should be. Now delivered. Mission accomplished. Yes, were back to this. Over the weekend the president tweeted, without irony, mission accomplished, after fridays strikes on syria. But heres the question what exactly was the mission . Was it just the strikes . Is the president saying assad will no longer attack his own people with chemical weapons . Im joined now by nbcs hans nichols at the pentagon and leo shane, Deputy Editor for the military times. Leo shane iii. Not the third Deputy Editor. I think i said that wrong. Hans, start with you. Mission accomplished. What exactly is the mission and what was accomplished by those strikes . Is the white house or the pentagon saying that assads attacks on his own people, done, no more, not going to happen again . No, katy, they certainly arent going that far. From the pentagons perspective the onty was accomplished. They had three different targets, all their cruise missiles landed on target, they did it internationally with support. They feel like theyve established this mode, this international norm, that violations that chemical weapons cannot be used. So the white house has been saying a little unclear on this. From the pentagon theyve been saying very clearly that theyve tackically achieved their goals and have the ability to maneuver and escalate if assad uses chemical weapons again. They respect claiming he will use them again nor that they destroyed his chemical weapons capability. Only that theyve degraded them. So whats the strategy Going Forward . If youre talking about fighting isis, the strategy remains to continue to fight against isis. How long you stay there, you get different views. The white house has had to walk back an clarify that themselves. Most recently Sarah Huckabee sanders said they wont stay long term, just in syria, 2,000 troops, in Eastern Syria until the job is done. In terms of what you do with the assad government, officially the policy has not changed. Theres no policy of regime change. Theyre simply saying they are enforcing international norms. Leo, what did these strikes end up accomplishing . Thats the question. Frustration up on congress is what is the full strategy here. All the questions you are asking are the questions lawmakers are asking right now. Was the president authorized under the existing military force usage to take this action, and whats the larger strategy . Even folks up here who say they support the president s attack and support his position on this, are saying but it has to be accompanied by better strategy here. Whats going to go on, whats the next step. Weve heard from the white house the mission is still to combat isis. Not to get involved in the civil war but this seems to be an escalation of that. Where do we go from here . If there is another chemical weapons attack, does that mean there will be another u. S. Attack . Even though there was a strike in syria, even though this was if reaction to something that the u. S. And our allies say assad did to his own people, you cant decouple it from russia and from vladimir putin. So leo, tell me how they factor into this and tell me how this administration can dance that delicate dance. Yeah. And it is a tough one because the concern is, with russias support for syria, is there the chance for Collateral Damage here, is there the chance that russia reacts in a way that escalates this to another step. Most of the opposition you heard on capitol hill ahead of the strikes was that fear, that if there is a strike, if there are Russian Troops in the wrong place, if there is not the appropriate deconfliction, could this go to a strike for chemical weapons deterrence to a strike that leads to world war iii between the russia and u. S. Whats russia next mo of . Obviously theres the back and forge at the u. N. , rsh shaussiag this was an illegal action, the u. S. Justifying it. But again it goes to the strategy question. What does the u. S. Go from here. Nikki haley said yesterday this administration is going to enact more sanctions on russia in response to whats happening in syria. In response to their veto of the u. N. Resolution. The president though now according to the Washington Post, hans, is saying, no, were not going to do this, were not ready to do this yet. Nbc has not confirmed the Washington Posts reporting but i would note that nikki haley yesterday said sanctions would be rolled out by the treasury department. It is the middle of the afternoon and we dont have additional economic sanctions on russia as was promised, as was clearly telegraphed by this administration, by nikki haley who is effectively speaking as secretary of state with that position currently unfilled. The Washington Post cited anonymous officials saying there was a shift around the president cited on sunday he didnt want to go quite that far. Well watch treasury closely to see if there are indeed these promised economic sanctions or if theres been a shift from the president. This does come after Washington Post reporting. Other reporting that the president was furious about the amount of diplomats that the u. S. Expelled compared to the amount of diplomats expelled Russian Diplomats expelled by european countries. So we should mention that as well. Seems to dovetail into this. Nbcs hans nichols and military times Deputy Editor, leo shane iii. Are Rod Rosensteins days and Deputy Attorney general numbered . Folks close to him say, no, absolutely not. Still, there hasnt been any action by President Trump. But could that change as often it does . Well dig into that. Also keeping an eye on manhattan courthouse where a hearing is under way with Michael Cohen and Stormy Daniels. If developments break, you will see it right here. Millions of you are online right now, searching one topic. That will generate over 600 million results. And if youve been diagnosed with cancer, searching for answers like where to treat, can feel even more overwhelming. So start your search with a specialist at Cancer Treatment centers of america. Start with teams of Cancer Treatment experts under one roof. Start where specialists use advanced Genomic Testing to guide precision Cancer Treatment. That may lead to targeted therapies and more treatment options. Start where theres a commitment to analyzing the latest research and conducting clinical trialsto help each patient get the personalized cancer care they deserve. Start at one of the Cancer Treatment centers of america hospitals near you. The evolution of cancer care is here. Learn more at cancercenter. Com experts oh, look. Another antiwrinkle cream in no hurry to make anything happen. Neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair® works in just one week. With the fastest retinol formula available. Its clinically proven to work on fine lines and wrinkles. One week . That definitely works rapid wrinkle repair®. And for dark spots, rapid tone repair. Neutrogena®. See whats possible. As we keep an eye on Michael Cohens court hearing, a reminder that it was Deputy Attorney general Rod Rosenstein who, according to our reporting here at nbc news, directly approved the application for the search warrant ahead of the raids of cohens office, hotel and home. Last friday nbc news reported that rosenstein had made his peace with getting fired by donald trump but, as of today, he is still employed. In an interview with usa today, fired fbi director james comey praised rosenstein. I think the Deputy Attorney general has performed in a good way since my firing. And i dont know this, but i suspect part of it is to make up for what he did in connection with my firing, but what ive seen him do, which is stand up for the rule of law and the Justice Department and the need for independent Law Enforcement to resist the president saying prosecute that person, dont prosecute that person, dont come after me, has been really good and really important. Lets be clear though that Rod Rosenstein, according to reporting, has said that he believes history will deem his justified for recommending that james comey be fired to the president of the United States. Will Rod Rosenstein still be employed by the president of the United States tomorrow . Heres the president s advisor, kellyanne conway. I just answered that. The president alone makes the personal decisions. Is he at the moment, lets bring in harry litman, former u. S. Attorney and Deputy Attorney general during the clinton separatio administration. I was talking to somebody in rosensteins orbit just before i came on the air and they were saying a lot of this is just hype, only talked about in the media. That the reality is the president and rosenstein have a decent relationship and the job is working. Hes working in the job as hes always worked in the job. Is that the way it looks to you . I dont know about that. I dont think they theyre hunting partners for anything. My sense is that trump would dearly love to get rid of him, that he faults rosenstein for having the two things that most irk him now, the appointment of mueller and the referral of the cohen materials to the southern district. But i dont think its i will bet hell still be employed tomorrow. Because its just not easy to get rid of him. There are many ways to think about it. He could directly discharge him. But besides the political firestorm that two surely ensue, its not clear that two really do the job of easing up the pressure of the probe. So i think he, for some time, has wanted to get rid of him. But hes had to stay his hand because it might not be effective, and because of the political consequences. Even if he did fire Rod Rosenstein and tried to fire Robert Mueller, what would that mean for the investigation in sdny, the Michael Cohen investigation . Short answer is not a thing. Sdny operates independently. They now have all of the cohen materials and those are extensive. Right . Ten years of all the operations, fixing things for the president , his cell phones, his laptops, his safety deposit box. And the short answer is thats all in their hands now. Perhaps if they find things germane to the Mueller Investigation, as they might. Things involving russia, for example, they can share it with him. But he could be fired rosenstein could be fired tomorrow. Mueller could be fired tomorrow. Wouldnt mean a thing for the sdny investigation, and that means cohen is in it for the long ride. What will it mean for the special counsels investigation though if Robert Mueller was fired . Does it get put on hold . If muellers fired what would it mean for muellers investigation . Yeah. So it two depend on how it was done and im sure that mueller and rosenstein have thought about this. The quick answer is, no, it would not be put on hold. It would be an extreme additional measure for trump not only to fire rosenstein, but order the whole the locks changed on the doors. Absent that, this is an ongoing investigation, ongoing evidence. A grand jury has been convened. It just doesnt dry up and disappear. Former u. S. Attorney harry litman. Thank you very much. Thank you. Theres one person whose job may be safer right now than Rod Rosensteins epa administrator scott pruitt. Unbelievable is next. Im on the move all day long. And sometimes, i dont eat the way i should. So, i drink boost to get the nutrition im missing. Boost high protein nutritional drink has 15 grams of protein to help maintain muscle and 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d. All with a great taste. Boost gives me everything i need. To be up for doing what i love. Boost high protein be up for it if yor crohns symptoms are holding you back, and your Current Treatment hasnt worked well enough, it may be time for a change. Ask your doctor about entyvio, the only biologic developed and approved just for uc and crohns. Entyvio works at the site of inflammation in the gi tract and is clinically proven to help many patients achieve both symptom relief and remission. Infusion and serious allergic reactions can happen during or after treatment. Entyvio may increase risk of infection, which can be serious. Pml, a rare, serious, potentially fatal brain infection caused by a virus may be possible. This condition has not been reported with entyvio. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, experience frequent infections or have flulike symptoms or sores. Liver problems can occur with entyvio. If your uc or crohns treatment isnt working for you, ask your gastroenterologist about entyvio. Entyvio. Relief and remission within reach. Its been more than six months since the Washington Post first reported that epa administrator scott pruitt was flying in charter and military flights at taxpayer expense. In those last six months, the hits have kept on coming. The travel, the d. C. Condo he rented below market value from the wife of an energy lobbiest, reports from the atlantic that he used a legal loophole to give two top aides raises, bulletproof desks, leatherbound notebooks, and that 43,000 soundproof booth in his office, to which i ask yet again who did he think was listening . Those pesky koalas, theyre so nosey. Just today the Government Accountability office determined that pruitt violated federal spending laws when he used taxpayer money on that booth without first notifying relevant congressional committees. The epa had argued to the Government Accountability office that the booth is analogous to other functional items an employee might require to do his job duties, such as a highspeed computer, or television. What exactly does a 43,000 copier look . A 43,000 television . Does it have smellvision . Despite todays s continues to attract scrutiny from both sides of the aisle, increasingly, in fact from the right. They have sent in requests for Additional Information and maybe prompting more scrutiny there. Also from the epa inspector general. And the Government Accountability Office Investigating some of them. I think some of the support for him likely stemmed from questions that republicans had about how difficult it might be to confirm a successor to him. Well now that the senate has confirmed a deputy for him there, there might be fewer concerns in that regard. In other words, if he were to be fired or step aside, there would be someone who was a Senate Confirmed political appointee, this guy, Andrew Wheeler arc former colobbyist, who could step in. That might start eroding some of the republican support that there had been for pruitt. Is this about the agenda he is pursuing, the rolling back of regulations . Yeah, there is definitely something to that. He is seen as one of the few folks on the cabinet who has been able to successfully push that dereg la tory agenda. Its something that republican donors in particular are very enthusiastic about and have pined for for years all throughout the obama administration. So there is some support from the sort of conservative elite donor class and sblel jensia, but i dont think that he has exactly a ton of support from the base and that the base is clamoring or that the base would sort of rise up and rebuke President Trump if he were to fire scott pruitt. So its tough the really see there being a ton more Political Capital that folks around trump are willing to see spent on protecting scott pruitt. Ken, what is the message being sent by the administration, that so long as hes doing what the big name republican donors want him to do, he can do anything he wants with taxpayer money . There certainly is an element of double standard. We have seen cabinet secretaries forced out for much less. Tom price, hhs. Shulkin at the v. A. There were questions about taxpayer the stewardship of taxpayer money that in my mind seemed to be less significant than what we are seeing with the mounting questions around pruitt and pruitts spending of taxpayer unin. Yeah, it does seem to be one where he has protected status, maybe a little bit of a double standard but potentially one that we might see fall away as there is potentially a successor in place. With this successor, are we likely to see more republicans coming out . And where exactly does the outrage lie in this . Is it mostly just from democrats at the moment. I mean it was largely from democrats. But i think we are seeing it more and more with republicans. There is guy by the name of kevin who i think you and i both encountered on the campaign trial. He was the head of advance for trumps president ial campaign. Obviously republican with unimpeachable republican credentials a. Trump guy. He was the deputy chief of staff at the epa. He objected to some of this spending and was among the several folks who were forced to side as a result of or at least in their minds as a result of raising some of these objections. So you see the sort of grounds for republicans having d you know, reaching the conclusion that scott pruitt is to the doing a great job at the epa. And then finally, how much money so far has scott pruitt spent on these extras . I mean its tough to know. There was a 5,000 cat that cabinet secretaries have for redecorating their offices. Cap and scott pruitt went above and beyond that by finding different ways to categorize spending. Including a 43,000 soundproof booth. He claimed it as a security measure. He claimed a giant American Flag that cost 5,000 and put that on another officials budge at the epa. Bought a standing desk. Had a very ornate desk refinished that was already in the government warehouse. So he certainly has spent a lot on some of these trappings of the office that dont necessarily seem to be directly related to actually fulfilling the functions of the epa administrator. Ken vogel of the new york times. We will be watching for your buy line, ken thank you very much. We are still watching the Michael Cohen hearing in doent manhattan. We should get news out of there relatively soon. Hopefully any moment, joining us, harry will itman and paul fishman, former federal prosecutors. In looking at this cohen hearing, what would you consider a win for Michael Cohen to be . A win for Michael Cohen is the judge doing anything to disrupt the process that the government proposed for a tape review. If they can get the judge to say in particular that the president and his lawyers get to look at the documents first, that would be an extraordinary win. But even giving Michael Cohen access to the governments before the government had them would be a win for coan. I think what the judge may well do is say im going to let the government look at them now and give a complete set back to cohens lawyers and let both sides look at them simultaneously. I think if the judge does anything that deviates from what the government proposed it will be that. Harry, this is talk in this latest filing that cohen put through, which is that he had a third legal client. There was the president of the United States, david bradentony, and a third legal client that didnt want to be named. They were trying to argue that he shouldnt have to be named, that this is Attorney Client privilege, that these are extraordinary circumstance asks by virtue of Michael Cohen being investigated it would be unfair and embarrassing for that third client to have to be named. Whats the likelihood that the judge is going to say sorry thats not the way this works, you have to name your third client. That is if you want to get any relief. And if you want me to judge whether that client has any business in being here and whether there is standing i agree with paul. This happens of dozens of times a year. And a victory for cohen here would be almost anything other than judge woods saying we are going to handle nitd the normal course the way this is always done. Anything other than that would both a slow down the process and b give some kind of creedens to the notion that legally speaking, this is some exceptional situation warranting special slit attitude to the president. And really it shouldnt be. There is no special reason that his stad us as president harry, we can confirm nbc has confirmed inside that courtroom that the third client, Michael Cohens third client is sean hannity. Wow. Paul, this is yours first. I mean, now we have the whole the whole kind of stew that happened in the libby case with an overlay of First Amendment concerns. And now this really is anommalo anommalous. Paul, what do you think . It doesnt seem to me from the point of view to cohens standing to stop the music that hannitys presence changes anything. Tom winter is outside of the courtroom. Tom, what happened . So, katy, in court, both sides were arguing back and forth about the clients that Michael Cohen has. And so already this morning, he disclosed that President Trump is a client of his. We know that. This morning he disclosed that i will yot bradentony was a client. That was in court filings. But the third client wasnt disclosed. The judge wanted cohens team to disclose the name. That persons name is is sean hannity. He has been identified as a client of Michael Cohen in the last two years. This is important. This is gist for clients of his from 2017 and 2018, this current year. Sean hannity has been identified as a client. How do we know this is sean hannity who is an anchor person at fox news versus sean hannity that just works down the street . Before this Michael Cohens defense attorney that he was a prominent earn approximate he desired he not be named but he was a wellknown public figure. Do we know exactly what shawn happenity needed cohens representation for . That hasnt been disclosed in court. They are still going back and forth as to what documents the government may be able to review, whether or not there is going to be a special master, whether or not there is going to be a privilege team, highly technical arguments. But we havent heard whether mr. Hannity may have used mr. Cohens Legal Services for. No, that hasnt come out in court. Last answer to you, paul . Well, thats an Extraordinary Development it. Im really interested in hearing what services he provided for handi. We know what services he seems to have provided for the other two. Harry, how about you . Ditto. My best sense of this is it will be lurid and complicate things politically newswise. It shouldnt change the legal landscape. U would, guys, thank you so much for helping us sort through that. Tom winter thank you as well. Thank you. That will wrap things up for me this hour. Dont go. Ali velshi. Left field. I want to ask questions. That is unbelievable. That is unbelievable. So there are three highprofile clients. Its worth noting in Court Last Week choens lawyer argued that the reason they shouldnt be looking at all of these documents and how many, that was a response that says thousands, the judge said how many. Ten clients, sev