Partied with donald trump in the rose garden after thursdays votes are returning home to face their constituents and theyre finding out that the partys over. Joining me now is nbc senior politics editor beth and ozzy, Senior Reporter for politico. Thank you for both joining me this morning. Beth, the reality in terms of politics is that this has not helped the republicans, at least in what were seeing as they return home. In many ways, its cemented some of the damage of their going after this bill, because it does threaten where states can opt out of reexisting conditions and other things that could lead to people losing their health coverage. Thats right. I was up at this town hall meeting that you just showed on your air just now. It was in upstate western new york. The congressman has served about five terms. He does town meetings regularly, which unlike other republicans, we were trying to find republican members of congress doing them this weekend after this vote. He was the only one we could find. So we went up there. He got a real ear full from his constituents. The meeting were packed. This is a very republican district. Its a district that went for trump by 15 points. But the congressman was followed. He did three different meetings and was followed by many of his constituen constituents at all at least places. These are rural areas. There were 150 at the first, maybe 200 at the second. By and large, it was antithis health care bill. The preexisting conditions was the biggest thing people wanted to talk about. People with children with special circumstance v special needs. People who had been cancer survivors. Opiate addiction is a problem there. And congressman reed was pressed on this. How can you do this . How can you vote for a bill that would threaten my ability to buy Affordable Health care. And ozzy, this is a reality, because were not this has nothing to do with whether youre pro trump or pro democrat or pro obama. The reality is that preexisting conditions is threatened by this bill. So give me then, is this the reason, you think, that the President Trump and et al decided to have this celebration to try a act like this was a big deal and great for american and also to kind of put some shade on the fact this is not even law yet. It has to go through the senate. It was a preliminary victory party. Right. It has to pass through the senate. So theyre celebrating before anything is done. Right. With donald trump having so many failures in his first 100 days, he needed a victory. He promised to repeal and replace obama care. He couldnt get his immigration executive orders held up. He was talking about changes to the tax code which so far has been just talk. And when he Warren Buffett came out blasting his tax code. Right. And when donald trump said im going to come in and change washington and get things done, his Party Controls both houses. When he has failure after failure, he needed to show something. This was the only thing he was able to get done, and the its not done. It has to go through the senate. But the fear that people have is that if republicans wanted to vote for Something Like this, you now have members in the congress who are going to have to stand up and face their constituents to say i voted to take away essential health services, to weaken preexisting conditions, and it is not clear if the constituents of Congress Members are going to actually be better served under this version of the bill. Isnt that the political reality that congressmen and congresswomen that you went to the town halls with faced that in giving a victory at least in the optics to President Trump who has had no real victories to show in the first 100 days, im signing onto something that is going to stick to me that could hurt my reelection . So you are really asking people to sacrifice their political future or at least put it in jeopardy for you to have something that really is a false celebration, because they havent passed anything. This has not gone before the senate. What are you really asking me to do if im a republican congressman, President Trump . What are you really saying here . Again, the point that tom reed was the only republican member of congress having a meeting about the the bill tells you everything. If they were proud of this and felt like constituents were going to be excited and they were happy to go out and be talking about it, and they were going to be met with people that were proud and excited that the change was made, all would have been town hall meetings. I asked tom reed about it. I said why arent your colleagues talking about this . He said this has been on my schedule for a long time. Props to him that he went ahead and did it anyway facing the reaction that he got. But the silence really spoke volumes to me. These guys were not out there selling this. If they were willing to go stand in front of the white house and do that ceremony, why are they not talking about this with their constituents at home . They had to know the it was a liability. Since they had flak, youd think theyd want to go back and see. Ozzy, when you look at the fact that even the deficit hawks, the right wingers in the congress, they added 8 billion here which is furthering the deficit. I mean, so youve got even those on the far right saying wait a minute. What are we doing here . How is this bill better than obamacare in the terms of the debt side . If you look at it down the little on the left or the right, theres no real win here. They are having a celebration by themselves in the rose garden. They were celebrating for donald trump. He got a victory out of this. I dont know if the people who voted for it did. The vote came before the independent Budget Office was able to give a final determination as to what it will cost. In 2009 when the House Speaker was complaining about what obamacare was going to cost and why there was question marks about that, he now in 2017 is doing the same thing. Having a vote before that final tally can be heard, so members of congress knew exactly what they were voting on. So we see that the cbo has not even given the cost. Ryan wanted to deal with saying the cost of obamacare runs out there before we could get a cbo count that speaks volumes that were looking at more cosmetics than we are about dealing with health care for america. Its hard to know. As you said, we dont have that cbo score. I think what the congressman was trying to say to his constituents that i saw, he was echoing a complaint that many people have about the aca. There are problems with it. People have high premiums, those are things that need to be fixed. You can tweak it out doing this, but thank you, beth, and ozzy for joining me this morning. Coming up, President Trump is making it easier for churches to suppor political candidates but could that backfire on him . jessica i love beneful healthy weight because the first ingredient is chicken. riley man, this chicken is spectacular jessica i feel like when he eats beneful, he turns into a puppy again. You love it, dont you . You love it so much vo and now try new beneful grain free, simply made with wholesome ingredients, and no grain. I mwell, what are youe to take care odoing tomorrow 10am . Staff meeting. Noon . Eating. 3 45 . Uh, compliance training. 6 30 . Sams baseball practice. 8 30 . Tai chi. Yeah, so sounds relaxing. Alright, 9 53 . I usually make their lunches then, and i have a little vegan so wow, you are busy. Wouldnt it be great if you had investments that worked as hard as you do . Yeah. Introducing essential portfolios. The automated investing solution that lets you focus on your life. The shlike a bald penguin. How do i look . [ laughing ] show me the Billboard Music awards. Show me top artist. Show me the top hot 100 artist. They give awards for being hot and 100 years old . Well take 2 [ laughing ] xfinity x1 gives you exclusive access to the best of the Billboard Music awards just by using your voice. The Billboard Music awards. Sunday, may 21st eight seven central only on abc. For too long the federal government has used the power of a state as a weapon against people of faith. Bullying and even punishing americans for following their religious beliefs. That is why i am signing, today, an executive order to defend the freedom of religion and speech in america, the freedoms that weve wanted, the freedoms that you fought for so long. That was President Trump thursday celebrating the First National day of prayer of his presidency. With a new executive order that loosens a 63year prohibition of tax exempt organizations like kpurjs actively vouching for or against a political candidate. The irony of this order is not lost on yours truly as i was endorsed by at least two churches during my 2004 president ial run, and you can believe that the irs went after them with the quickness while President Trump got to look the part of defending religious, quote, freedom, this week, this one could come back to bite him. Because weve seen churches across the country defy this administration on everything on sanctuary for immigrants for the proposed travel ban on muslim immigrants. With us the Senior Pastor of First Corinthian Church and from washington d. C. , writer for the investigative fund. Sara, you first. This came out as a weaker proclamation than expected, so much so the alcu said theyre not swinging. They thought it was going to be geared more toward the Lgbtq Community in terms of what some of the religious institutions are raising against having access to them or fairness for them. Yes. It is a much more scaled back version of a leaked executive order draft that i reported on back in february. And despite the fact that a lot of people are saying its a big nothing burger or the aclu decided not to sue on it right now, i think it does raise cause for concern not only the provision that purports to reveal the Johnson Amendment, the part of the Internal Revenue code you were just discussing. While he cant do that by executive order, because its part of a statute, it does signal what hes going to tell his Internal Revenue service to do or not do with regard to pastor endorsements or nonendorsements of candidates. Let me stop you. Reverend, early the morning of the signing you called me. We are Early Morning risers. And we talk. And you raised that this could backfire on him. Let me show people what he said that brought me right back to this reverend. There is no greater example than the historic role of the African American church as the agent for social progress, sparing our nation to greater justice and equality. Over 60 years ago the irs went after one of the greatest leaders in history, reverend Martin Luther king, junior. The it is a sobering reminder of the need for vigilance. Now, you pa or tstor probabl Fastest Growing church in this region. You have been political and progressive. And people got in trouble for endorsing or even having people like me and others in their pulpit if we were running for office or even dealing with a cause. Youre saying that even though this may have been weak, it may send a signal to the irs, they cant mess with progressive ministers. What he seeks to do is lessen the attack that irs can make on religious organizations which could backfire. For example, we all know the problem is that people are fearful that churches can become partisan or a pawn in partisan politics, but it can create a space where pastors can be more direct in their support or endorsement of candidates. And that could mean you could have pastors who could be vocal in the opposition from the pulpit in the political way against President Trump. That could backfire. If we think about the role the African American church plays in African American communities as a center socially, politically, spiritually, and people in some ways take their direction in their spiritual leaders. If pastors have the opportunity to speak freely without retribution, it could backfire on President Trump. The its a signal to the irs that you cant mess with them, or if you do, youre going against the president s executive order. This could have impact on a lot of the social movements we see and the med term election. In the 63 years since the the Johnson Amendment, only one religious organization has lost their tax exempt status. And so it could. But the irs doesnt go after religious organizations vigorously except for certain cases like when you ran for president. I wonder why. But at the same time, it may backfire, we still need to be careful of the intent here and what the right wing is going to try to do. Because i dont want to give people a rosy picture. There is some light in the clouds here, but theres still a lot of clouds. Well, certainly i dont think President Trump was really thinking about even though he referenced the role of African American churches in politics and social justice issues, he was primarily thinking about the white evangelical megachurch pastors who endorsed him with no consequence during his 2016 campaign. Enforced him from their pulpits. In some cases. So this is really hes really doing the bidding on the religious right who has claimed with this red herring that their free speech and freedom to religion rights are being infinnaged upon by the Johnson Amendment. The Johnson Amendment merely says if you want to maintain your tax exempt status, you cannot use your tax exempt dh s dollars to endorse political candidates. Or the case that the reverend referred to, not endorse a candidate. But the irs has not been enforcing this, and they have not been investigating even pastors you know, reverend, i always say the christian right needs to lead the right chis christians. Now the threat, some of your colleagues in pastoring, i preach everywhere, but you pastor with a major church, they cant even say to y im afraid what the irs may do. Thats gone by the optics. If the its really relaxed, this is regulatory relief, if the its relaxed, it gives some pastors a right to step into it even more. I heard one person say what the president said on thursday was an elaborate photo op without a real outcome, but the language the can free up spaces. Frankly, African American churches have been people speaking for years. Few have done direct endorsement from the pulpit. Like when i ran. The thinking is they might not go after the white evangelicals, but they will come after the African American churches that breech the Johnson Amendment. I know you have to get to church and sara has to get to work. Thank you both Senior Pastor of first corinthian and sara pozner. Thank you for joining me. Up next, dr. Ben carsons house call. You wont believe what he had to say about public housing. And later, new developments in the case of jordan edwards, the 15yearold killed by a police officer. Ill talk to the familys attorney. Everything your family touches sticks with them. Make sure the germs they bring home dont stick around. Use clorox disinfecting products. 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And as carson toured our hud subsidized ohio neighborhood last week, made several comments that fit right in with his, quote, by the boot straps philosophy. He asked the with pets were allowed. He seemed pleased a homeless shelter stacked bunk beds together and had no televisions for residents. And he joked that a complex housing veterans were so nice that it lacked only pool tables. Secretary carson, i respect you. But i suppose i cant blame you for focusing on the pennies after all, your boss has called for a 13 reduction in your departments budget. I leave you to ponder that paradox, but i will drop a few jewels of wisdom. One, pets make people, especially kids, feel good about giving them something to love. A television can give a disconnected person a connection with the wider world. And three, a rhetorical question, is a pool table that much of a luxury when youre struggling with ptsd from defending our nation . 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Thats the power of and. This week we saw several disheartening developments in the ongoing conversation about race and Law Enforcement. It began with the Police Shooting death of dallas area teenager jordan edwards as the 15yearold was leaving a house party. The officer alleged to have fired that fatal shot, roy oliver, has since been fired from the Police Department, and on friday was charged with murder. At just 15 years old, jordan is the thus far the youngest casualty of Police Shooting this year. But certainly not the only one. More on that later. Joining me now from dallas is lee merit, attorney for jordan edwards family. Thank you attorney merit. Let me ask you, you and i talked earlier this week. Explain exactly as you know it and as the family knows it, what happened that night. I mean, 15yearold unarmed astudent, and all of a sudden shot and killed where were told they were leaving a party. The first claim by police was they were backing up in a threatening way. A videotape showed the exact opposite. I mean, how are they even explaining this, attorney merit . Well, the family and the community are grasping for an explanation. We know the facts. We know that jordan was leaving a party. Two of his brothers and two friends got in a car. They heard gunshot in the area so they decided they should take off. As they began to take off, they heard profanities and seconds later he began shooting rounds into this car full of teenage kids. This was no real explanation, like you mentioned, initially they came out to say the car was hurling toward an officer in a dangerous way or aggressive way. That turned out to be not true. And they recanted that statement. But they offered no real explanation of what motivated this officer to begin shooting at the car. So there was some shooting in the area not related to where jordan and his friends were at all, and thats why, in fact, jordan and them were leaving. They were not part of it. They were reacting and it was somewhere in that area. And were mindful of police. There were policemen killed there, and you operated with balance here saying wait a minute, im in touch with Law Enforcement. Lets see what happens before we hit the streets, so to speak, and as you said that to me when we talked, and there was a charge of murder. How do you see this Going Forward now that the prosecutor has, nfin fact, made a charge. Thats a hopeful sign. Its been a long time coming. We would love to see a faster reaction from Law Enforcement when the evidence is clear. When theres no explanation for a Police Shooting and when the shooting appears to be unjustified. And there exists probable cause to make an arrest, it should not take longer to arrest a Law Enforcement officer than it does an average citizen, but it is encouraging to see that an arrest was made and that the appropriate charge is being pursued. What we must do is to stay focussed and see it through a conviction. Its been almost 50 years since a Law Enforcement officer has been convicted of a murder in the state of texas as it relates to on the job shooting. I repeat, we are very concerned about this and Police Shooting around the country that weve been involved in, and were very concerned when police are killed like what happened in dallas. Were just as outraged. Any innocent lives being lost needs to have equal protection under the law in a balanced way. I think you made that message clear, and ive tried in my activities. Thank you for being with me this morning. Again, give our condolences and prayers to the family, even as we mourn this loss of jordan edwards, we want to thank you for being with us. We also learned this week that the Justice Department will not pursue charges against the two baton rouge, Louisiana Police officers who shot and killed alton sterling last year. I was active in sterlings familys fight for justice and spoke at his funeral, and the decision attributed to the lack of evidence that sterling eegs civil rights were violated. It comes despite video from the scene that showed sterling was incapacitated by the two officers when he was killed. As tragedies like these continue to occur, the question now is will the Justice Department respond in the trump era . Well, the Jeff Sessions has flat out said the administrations prior theity is boosting police morale, even if it means dismantling measures to curtail incidents like these. In other words, dont go expecting too much justice from this Justice Department. With me now from colombia, south carolina, is marquez clacston, a 20year veteran of the new york Police Department. And david love who writes commentaries. Dave, youve covered a lot of this and a lot of activities through the years. The trial is starting in tulsa, oklahoma. This week im going to join the family there wednesday. I mean, it is a clear signal from our meeting four or five of us civil rights leaders that i joined with meeting with sessions that this Justice Department is saying were not pursuing these cases and alton sterling was the first direct evidence of that. Yes. Very true. I think we knew before sessions came into office that he was going to be a disaster. Definitely no friend of civil rights. I think this is all playing out right now. This is a man who said he is for racial profiling. Hes for stop and frisk. He does not believe in a Consent Decrees against Police Departments because he thinks that its going to harm police morale. We look at the federal government as a last resort when local municipalities, government entities, are not willing or able to do the job. But its pretty clear that in the age of trump, we cannot depend on the Justice Department to defend the defenseless, to defend people who are really looking for their rights to be upheld, and its unfortunately the new normal, but we have to be vigilant and make sure that we get the rights that we deserve. Mark, you know, the whole question of Consent Decrees that was raised by day, people need to understand that these are done after extensive investigations by the Justice Department. When he sees he wanted to delay the Consent Decree in baltimore, it was the Justice Department that hes now over that investigated this and found a practice. You as a former police officer, i mean, arent we really talking about undercutting what is fair and just when we say im not going to even go by what the evidence shows, maybe the pat ebt a end and practice of bad policing. Absolutely. Jeff sessions is supposed to be in charge of making sure justice is applied equally across the board. Its quite clear and its been said many times in the past that elections have consequences, and this election for this election, this consequence is Jeff Sessions who is a police apologist. Who believers in aligning with Police Officers and behaviors, even the most egregious behavior. These things are in place because people did something wrong. There is a problem or a situation thats going to cross the Nation Police department that Police Department that needs to be addressed. And Jeff Sessions has decided its hands off of police because hes more concerned about morale as opposed to justice. Dave, when we hear the Sterling Family say now that they are seeking the state attorney to come in, i go back to your point, because youre so right on a historical note. There was a time even all the way into this era where we call on the department of justice to interfere. That was where we would go from the days of doctor king all the way through, and now thats not open to us. In new york weve been able to get the governor to have a special prosecutor outside of the local county politics on police killings. Can this be the duplicate around the country now that youre going to have to now put pressures on local state legislators and local governors to have some other place to go if we cant depend on the Justice Department to fairly in a balanced way look at these cases . Yes. I do think that we do have the to the look at the local level. Sessions is not going to do anything. Someone who has support from the police as well as white supremacist groups. Last year the movement for black lives without out a policy paper. It speaks to the need for local involvement, for Community Control of the Police Hiring and firing. You need accountability. You need all of these things in place to make sure that the people on the local level have control over the police. But at the same time we still have to fight for everything that the federal government should do, but i do agree that on the local level, we do need there are a lot of things we need to change. And i think thats an important point. We shouldnt let the federal government off the hook while we organize locally. Which many of us have done in the civil rights community, and it goes back to your point. Elections have consequences, because where prosecutors are facing elections and there can be a lot of organizing and real mobilization around that. Yeah. Absolutely. And these issues should be addressed at a local level, of course, but there is the expectation, and quite frankly, given the history of local prosecution, local level prosecutions across the nation, its not stellar. Theres always been a hope or expectation that through the Civil Rights Division there would be recourse or redress for individuals who feel that their civil rights have been violated. We cant accept that now. Thats no longer our real thety. And it also points to a larger call for overall criminal justice reform, and Police Reform specifically. Unfortunately under Jeff Sessions both of those things seem unlikely. We must keep the pressure on because the it is the right way as we organize on the local and state level. Thank you very much mark and david. Thank you. Coming up, i sat down with msnbc host chris hayes. In his new book he argues when it comes to law and order, there are really two americas. Thats next. Whats it like to be in good hands . Like finding new ways to be taken care of. Home, car, Life Insurance obviously, ohhh. But with added touches you cant get everywhere else, like claim free rewards. Or safe driving bonus checks. Oh yes. Even a claim satisfaction guaranteeeeeeeeeee in means Protection Plus unique extras only from an expert allstate agent. Its good to be in, good hands. Tidy cats lightweight with glade clean blossoms. 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Your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. Side effects may include diarrhea, nausea, upper respiratory tract infection, and headache. Tell your doctor about all the medicines you take, and if youre pregnant or planning to be. Ask your dermatologist about otezla today. Otezla. Show more of you. The National Conversation were having right now about race and policing has been going on for decades. But in the aftermath of ferguson and the election of donald trump, the its more important than ever. Its the focus of a new book by my colleague chris hayes. Earlier this week i sat down with chris to discuss his book, a colony in a nation. Thank you for being with us this morning. Its great to be here. Thanks for having me. This book has been a New York Times bestseller, and the conversation around the country. Big part of our topic at National Networks convention. This week it takes on a new meaning because we saw this week the Justice Department announce theyre not coming in on the alton sterling case in baton rouge, louisiana. We saw the plea of guilty in North Charleston around walter scott. We see the case in tulsa, oklahoma starting this week. It brings us back in mind of what happened in ferguson, which you really deal with not the personalities, not the drama, but really the intrinsic problems that these Police Issues come to the surface. And in ferguson, one of the things thats important. You have a Police Department that was working on predatory way for the purposes of extracting revenue from them. That was going on for years with no one stopping them. It was only the presence of protests in the wake of Michael Browns death, and the entrance of the doj on to the scene that produced some level of accountability for that Police Department. The its not a big Police Department. Its about 55 cops. The thing that kept coming to mind when i was in ferguson watching talking to people and every sickle person i talked to complaint after complaint about how they were treated by the police, was how many more fergusons are there . The its just a town. The reason it became so important. I was in ferguson from the beginning when the family called. When we were demanding the doj come in and went to washington and helped to meet about that, we had no idea about what was later uncovered about the predatory part of making money. So its really a good question that you raise, and the term you use of colony, how many type colony situations are like that everywhere . Its not just the issue of is somebody being shot. But a systemic kind of predator policy thats there. As the doj they found in the report use of the Police Department fundamentally is a source of practice in pattern that they found, now you have an attorney general saying i dont want to do Consent Decrees which are based on patterns and practice. Consent decrees is not just those of us that come in and march. Thats an investigation in finding a pattern. And its a america anymore of accountability for Police Departments that dont have other mechanisms of accountability. No one was bringing the Ferguson Department to heel before the do doj came in. In big cities there may be other mechanis mechanisms, that it is just vital to have a department of justice that can act as some kind of accountability above just a Police Department. Otherwise who do you appeal to . The thing that was very interesting to me, and thats why i want everybody to really look at this book in light of this new administration and these new circumstances. The thing that was striking to me is how people just went along with it. Because this man has even been reele reelected, the mayor. You cant just march. There has to be real organizing. That mayor has been reelected. And part of it is just about the power of the politics of the side of the the town on the mayors side. Right . Because when we were there, and when i was reporting you had the protests but also the backlash. And what this book is about in many ways, and it was formed of a period of growing up in this city. You were a public figure and i was a teenager and it was about the power of the politics. You grew up in the bronx im sorry in the bronx. I think everybody is from brooklyn, but all right. You were the one that got away, but what made you come back and write this and what did you hope people when they finished reading a colony qwest that they walk away with. And i hope that people, and i have to say this, particularly white people think about what is being cultivated in them when politicians talk to them about law and order, when politicians talk about who they should be afraid of, when theyre cultivating that fear and that sense that a politician can promise you that if you build this wall then youll have order. Youll be protected. We have created the largest incarceration system in the world democratically. Thats the dirty secret about it. It wasnt some special Interest Group the bank lobby, didnt make it, right . Thats right. Democratic politics and even in the city of new york, liberal new york city where i watched the politics be implemented and the appeal to them be introduceded and not country, not west virginia, not the rust belt, new york city when those politics were so potent that i want people to think about the brain circuitry being cultivated in them when politicians are making those appeals and choose to elect leaders and to work towards a system of justis that they would want to see used on people they loved if the people they loved were the ones accused. Lets not forget you grew up in new york as i became i public figure and donald trump is from new york. So the administration were talking about is new york bone an born and raised. I the central park kids. In the early 90s. He is a product of new york at that peak period of high crime, a sense of decline and the sense of people of color particularly were coming out of the borders and that was the wilding thing, right . And he took those politics and he was able to take them from new york city in the 808s and 90s and export them to the entire country and thats where we are now and we have to read a colony by a kid that was watching all of that. Thank you for being with us. Thank you, reverend. Be sure to pick up chris new being boo, a colony in a nation. Up, next, my final thoughts. Stay with us. Microsoft and its partners are using smart traps to capture mosquitoes and sequence their dna to fight disease. There are over 100 million pieces of dna in every sample. With the microsoft cloud, we can analyze the data faster than ever before. If we can detect new viruses before they spread, we may someday prevent outbreaks before they begin. Slimy, wet lidocaine cowhen you move or sleep. Ff but now there is blueemus lidocare. The only lidocaine patch that is waterfree and a parabenfree patch that stays in place. Pain relief you can wear, that wont go anywhere. Get blueemus lidocare now. Will your business be ready when growth presents itself . American express open cards can help you take on a new job, or fill a big order or expand your office and take on whatever comes next. Find out how American Express cards and services can help prepare you for growth at open. Com. As i head to tulsa, oklahoma, to join the family of Terence Crutcher this week for a prayer rally for the opening of the trial of the officer that killed him i woke up this morning before sunrise and was happy to see the Nigerian Government announced that bock on haram had released 82 school girls. There were many that have raised this issue. Women activists and young women activists in this country and my own daughters, dominique and ashley were the ones who told me about it. Tamika nowry and others have stood up and said these girls were brought home and they got Michelle Obama on it. Im glad some of them are on their way home. That does it for me. 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