Winner, and one year to the day since the first report out of china that a new and virulent respiratory virus had been discovered. Tonight donald trump who still refuses to publicly concede his loss has fired chris krebs. Hes the Homeland Security official who vouched for the reliability of our 2020 election and who repeatedly knocked down allegations that the count was tainted by fraud. Krebs is a veteran of the bush 43 white house. He worked for microsoft in the private sector in the interim until being named as a trump apinty who then ran the Cyber Security division of Homeland Security and led successful efforts to help state and local governments protect their election systems. That was his job. By all accounts he did it well until being fired on twitter tonight. Late last week Homeland Security issued that statement calling our 2020 election, quote, the most secure in american history. Well, perhaps thats what set trump off because the idea of an historically secure election goes against his current story line. Trump indeed took to twitter tonight with more baseless claims writing in part, quote, the recent statement by chris krebs on the security of the 2020 election was highly inaccurate. In that there are massive improprieties and fraud. Therefore Effective Immediately chris krebs has been terminated as the director of the Cyber Security and infrastructure security agency. It was just eight days ago that trump fired his defense secretary mark esper. Today came the move that esper repeatedly and reportedly had counseled against. Trump is ordering American Forces in afghanistan cut by roughly half from 4,500 to 2,500 by january 15. That would be five days before the inauguration. Same troop reduction will also take place in iraq. The decision was announced by the new acting defense secretary. This is consistent with our established plans and strategic objectives. Supported by the American People and does not equate to a change in u. S. Policy or objectives. Mo moreover, this decision by the president is based on continuous engagement with his National Security cabinet. Senate republican leader Mitch Mcconnell who has shown his willingness to say and do anything for donald trump spoke out against this decision. Its extremely important here in the next couple of months not to have any earth shaking changes with regard to defense and Foreign Policy. The troop reduction sets a kind of Foreign Policy and military booby trap for joe biden already forced to come up with workarounds because trump isnt allowing a transition to take place. Biden still not getting the classified Intelligence Briefings that hes now entitled to as president elect. So today his team put together his own briefing with experts of his choosing. Im not being critical but just stating it obvious. You know ive been unable to get the briefings that ordinarily would have come by now, and theres no president ial responsibility more important than protecting the American People. Though we should continue to point out this is not joe bidens first rodeo and he knows his way around the world. Meanwhile there are still efforts underway in key swing states to somehow invalidate bidens victory. In Michigan Republican members of the wayne county board of canvassers initially refused to certify the result. Hours later, though, the fourperson board voted unanimously to certify the results of the election. But the uncertainty did give the Trump Campaign something to talk about. And in pennsylvania trumps personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani was arguing in federal court to try to prevent pennsylvania from certifying bidens win there. By all accounts it did not go well in court. Today the New York Times reported rudy wants the president s campaign to pony up 20,000 a day to him for his efforts. Keep in mind this is all taking place in a nation now engulfed in coronavirus. All 50 of our states are now feeling the impact of the pandemic as we move even nearer to a quarter million american lives lost. The virus in our country has never been stronger than it is right now. Nbc news has obtained a report from the nominal White House Coronavirus task force to the states dated november 15. It warns of, quote, aggressive unrelenting Broad Community spread without evidence of improvement but rather further deterioration. Mitigation efforts are inadequate and must be increased to flatten the curve to sustain the Health System for both covid and noncovid emergencies. The upcoming holidays can amplify transmission considerably. Tonight senator Chuck Grassly of iowa is in isolation after testing positive. Hes 87 years old. As Senior Member of the senate hes third in line to the presidency. And pfizer is moving forward with a pilot Delivery Program for its experimental vaccine in four states initially rhode island, texas, new mexico, and tennessee. But dr. Anthony fauci is among those worried about how ongoing delays in this transition will further hamper efforts to contain this pandemic. I would like to see the interaction with people who might be coming in and be doing the things that are being done now by the task force and by the people in the Health System. Obviously theres no doubt that it is better to have a smooth transition. With that, lets bring in our lead off guests on this tuesday night, all three returning veterans. Peter baker, chief White House Correspondent for the New York Times. Clint watts, distinguished Research Fellow at the Foreign PolicyResearch Institute and our National Security analyst. Hes also the author oof the recent book messing with the enemy surviving in a social media world of hackers, terrorists, russians and fake news. And were happy to welcome back dr. Celin gounder at the nyu school of medicine and bellview hospital in new york. She was recently named to president elect bidens coronavirus advisory board. Good evening and welcome to you all. Peter baker, lets look at the president. No concession, but actions that are consistent perhaps with a guy on his way out. The partial decapitation of the intelligence community, troop movements overseas, further firings, a threatened attack on iran. Now hes canceled plans to go to florida for thanksgiving perhaps fearful theyre going to take his stuff. Whats your reporting from inside the west wing on the current mindset . Well, look, this is white house that knows the end is in sight even if it doesnt want to admit it. And i think theyre taking this next 60 days to do what they can to satisfy the president s whims whether it be as you point out decapitating certain agencies with leadership that in his view has not been sufficiently loyal, most recently of course chris krebs who dared to say the election was actually secure and waged in a fair and freeway. And hes trying to achieve a few last policy, you know, accomplishments. The drawing down of troops in iraq and afghanistan is something he has talked about from the beginning, and he would like to get done before he leaves office. This has been a subject of great tension between his white house and the pentagon over the last few months. Youve seen it kind of erupt in person outloud in public between robert obrien, the National Security advisor and general milly, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. The military of course very concerned about these plans. This would pulldown troops in places they still feel theyre needed and could still do some good. Theyre not exactly in active warfare, but they are stability agents they feel like, and give america an ability to keep on top of whats happening in places that have been problem spots for National Security for many years. So theres a lot of tension right now and we know especially about a president whose actions are unpredictable and who isnt really listening to a lot of his key advisers at the moment. Doctor, to your bailee whick just in terms of the pandemic what does the delay in this transition do to endanger our Public Health . Doctor, im afraid youre on mute. Is it on your end or our end . There. Can you hear me now . There we go. Lets try from the top. So imagine you were on a train thats going 100 miles an hour in one direction and youre trying to jump from that train to another train that is going 100 Miles Per Hour in the opposite direction. That is a very difficult maneuver to make, and thats what essentially the biden team is being asked to do with transition right at the time of inauguration. Thats simply impossible. There needs to be a period of handoff, of communication, of understanding just as with any other National Security threat. What are the detailed, granular information on things like supply chains, on Vaccine Distribution plans . We cant be picking up those plans on day one and really be truly prepared to execute on them. We need time to make those plans. So this is really going to cost american lives if this if the Current Administration continues to drag its feet. Hey, clint, how do you wrap your head around the following . A guy like krebs puts out a Statement Like the one he put out trying to assure the American People that the election we just witnessed, all the yammering to the contrary was the most secure in our history . The president of the United States comes out and says, oh, no, thats terribly inaccurate because, again, that doesnt match his plot line, krebs is fired for it . It just is a steady trickle, brian, of the death of the administrative state. If we rewound this four years ago you would hear steve bannon, the president ial advisor, talking along side the president how we need to roll back any sort of president ial state. And here the roll back is occurring all it way into inauguration here in january. When we think about this the thing weve been worried about for four years is we did not want a replay of 2016 where people were uncertain whether their vote counted. People were uncertain about the integrity of the vote or were they changed possibly by the russians which influenced the outcome of the election . Thats why we have this position. Thats why we built this position, and now were seeing it removed, and were getting a replay. But this time its coming from within the white house not from overseas. Peter, i have a tweet i want to read you, and it is its from our mutual friend natasha bertrand. She writes one way this could backfire for trump, as a Government Official krebs had been forbidden for speaking to the biden transition team. Nothings stopping him from doing so now, and he has a lot of Institutional Knowledge that isnt necessarily classified. This is a tough one for democrats, peter, as you know. Trump gets more intransigent when hes told that he has something of value and that when he thinks the keeping of said thing is getting him attention. On the other hand, joe biden could go all the way to january 20th without an actual sit down briefing. This is a guy who if you hand him a blank map of the world im guessing can fill in more than half the nations on it. Yeah, look, you know, the Biden Administration has an advantage that other new presidencies coming in wouldnt have which is they were only gone for four years. Almost everybody in his inner circle has been there before. They know where the bathrooms are. They know how the lines of authority work. They know where to go to get information once they are in there. But, you know, that doesnt mean there arent important issues as we were just saying about covid where coming on january 20th without understanding the Distribution Plan is obviously a hindrance and is obviously a hindrance for a president not to have the National Security briefing a president elect would be having at this time, without the kind of detailed knowledge of the threats and risks and the operations going on around the world particularly if the president is, you know, rattling sabers with regard to iran at the same time hes talked about pulling back troops from iraq and afghanistan. Thats a very volatile mix of possible actions just in the last 60 days of this presidency to have a next president come in without being ready for it has obvious consequences. He could always talk to a chris krebs. I dont know how much use that will do for him on a lot of important topics. There are other people who have left government not that long ago including mark esper for instance who might be helpful to the new president coming in. And one thing President Trump keeps doing is validating people on the way out the door. By firing all these people hes helping restore their reputation so people who might have otherwise been black listed by a new administration is going to have some credibility going ahead as people punished for telling the truth as they saw it. Clint, i ask you this knowing youre a west point educated u. S. Army veteran. Were conditioned as a society appropriately so to cheer the phrase, bring the troops home anytime we hear it. However, so many questions have been raised about the president s pentagon policy. Is there in your view as a veteran of this area the possibility that this president even the new acting sec def doesnt understand the Strategic Union in uniform in either of these operations . I think you saw the alarm in his face and hes rightfully so because weve been here before. If you rewound this calender ten years we were talking about how to get out of iraq, and we did a rapid draw down from a sizable number. Just a few years later they were back in mosul trying to liberate under awful conditions with an iraqi army taking massive casualties. Whether its afghanistan, iraq or somalia, the other theories theyre talking about these have been hard won battles. This is place Everyone Wants to draw down, but to do that responsibly. You dont want to be the last 2,500 people in afghanistan right now trying to negotiate with a taliban that knows youre going to leave and knows theres a vacuum in leadership, that there will be a gap between those two president s. Theres no way that incoming President Biden can now redeploy troops very quickly and establish a plan to renegotiate. This hands all the cards really to the taliban. And dr. Gounder, along the same lines id like to give you the last word. Maybe not an inauguration day, january 20th but in your view knowing what you know and knowing the president elect as youve come to what changes will americans feel on mitigation efforts on this pandemic maybe january 21, 22, 23 and down the road . I think the first couple of things youre going to see, youll see the president elect invoke the defense production act, one of the measures that many of us on the front lines including myself who have been seeing patients during this entire pandemic. Weve been pleading with the Current Administration to invoke the defense production act, to scaleup production of the personal protective equipment we need on the front lines, the masks, the gloves and so on. And unfortunately, weve been living in rationing mode for months now, and its only getting worse with this newest surge of cases. So thats going to be the very first things youll see. The other thing youll see is a very different tone on testing. The Current Administration has been actively discouraging testing saying were doing too much testing. The challenge with coronavirus is many infections are asymptomatic so thats a big part of the iceberg under water thats invisible to us. The small part is the part thats hitting the hospital, all the people dying. But there are many more people infected and testing is the only way to find all those people and control transmission. So nice to have these three starting guests tonight. Peter baker, clint watts, dr. Celine gounder, were in your debt. Thank you all three of you for starting us off. Coming up that sound you hear, the last gasps of an outgoing president. Our next two guests will walk us through in some some cases around the roadblocks popping up on that road january 20th when he loses power at 12 00 noon. And later a history making presidency. Hows the book . All of it and more as the 11th hour is just getting under way on a tuesday night. Hour is just getting under way on a tuesday night we look at how much youve saved, how much youll need, and build a straightforward plan to generate income, even when youre not working. A plan that gives you the chance to grow your savings and create cash flow that lasts. Along the way, well give you ways to be tax efficient. And you can start, stop or adjust your plan at any time without the unnecessary fees. Talk to us today, so we can help you go from saving. To living. Talk to us today, damom, look get sare you okay . . Head home this holiday with the one you love. Visit your local mercedesbenz dealer today for exceptional lease and financing offers at the mercedesbenz winter event. Can you clarify this conversation you had with the secretary of state in georgia . Did you or did you not ask him to throw out votes . No, thats ridiculous. I talked to him about how you verify signatures. Whys a senator from South Carolina calling the secretary of state of georgia anyway . Because the future of the country hangs in the balance. Tonight the secretary of state in georgia says the official audit of Voting Machines found no evidence of fraud. He stood by his allegations that that man Lindsey Graham who happens to represent the state of South Carolina has suggested over the phone excluding some ballots. Graham says thats not true, but theres a problem with grahams account. There were Staff Members on the call including a top deputy to the secretary of state who confirms his boss account of the conversation. Two more returning veterans with us tonight Eugene Robinson, pulitzer prizewinning columnist for the Washington Post. And john heilemann, author and journalist, our National Affairs analyst, cohost of the circus on show time which is currently in an unwarranted and inexcusable hiatus. In his spare time john remains executive order of the recount. Gentlemen, its great to have you both. Eugene, same question. My friend garret haake asks linda graham what do you think a senator from your home state of South Carolina is doing nosing around an election recount in georgia . Hes up to no good, you know. Look, he has no reason to meddle in the election return counting affairs of the state of georgia. Yeah, its a neighboring state, and yes, he is head of the Senate Judiciary committee but thats not relevant to this case. He has no business calling around you know, calling like this. And apparently, you know, hes implying at least the secretary of state of georgia drew the inference he was trying to get him to throw out legitimate votes for joe biden so that donald trump potentially could win the state. I mean, thats what he seems to have been trying to do. And its absolutely outrageous. I hope there is a thorough investigation of senator graham and what hes trying to do. Theres already a discrepancy. Graham said he also called the secretary of state of a couple other states. One the official and he said he called in arizona, apparently immediately denied having spoken with him at all. So we need to get to the bottom of this. But this is wrong. This is one of many, many things that are going on now with republicans that are deeply wrong. And john heilemann, where does this fit in the known book of Lindsey Graham . There was nothing too severe that he could say about trump back in 2016. Now theres nothing he wont do or say for donald trump in 2020. We saw him fist bump the incoming Vice President today on the floor of the u. S. Senate while he, again, is sticking his nose in a recount in georgia. Where do you place this on the time line of Lindsey Graham . Brian, i think i place it exactly where i place everything on the time line of Lindsey Graham which is that true north for Lindsey Graham is whatever is in Lindsey Grahams interests at that moment. There is no true north Lindsey Graham other than selfinterests. So if you think about the career i think its really helpful to think about his behavior throughout his career. Whoever has been in power at the moment theyve been in power Lindsey Graham has tried to cozy up to, cuddle up to and seek favor from. Its hard to believe there is a time and you could talk to Obama Administration officials who remember the period after barack obama beat Lindsey Grahams great friend john mccain in 2008 when Lindsey Graham hung around the Obama White House and tried to curry favor with barack obama. He you know, donald trump was his enemy in 2015 until he got shellacked in the republican nomination fight. And all of a sudden donald trump became the path to power for him, he became slavishly devoted to donald trump. And hes going to stay slavishly devoted to donald trump until the day donald trump leaves office. Hell do whatever donald trump asks, what he wants. In some respects trump remaining loyal to graham is part of the explanation why Lindsey Graham got reelected. If donald trump had turned on Lindsey Graham in South Carolina he almost certainly would have lost the race in a primary or potentially in the general. The moment that donald trump is out the door we are going to see the Lindsey Graham whos been captured on video crying over what a great guy joe biden is. I promise you well see that guy in a few months time and itll be as if joe biden was the best guy in the world, yooalways said nice things about him and could you please invite me to movie night at the white house . Its coming. The Washington Post has tweeted out just the most unfortunate photograph of Lindsey Graham. I dont know much about masks but im pretty sure hes doing it wrong here. Last night for all the wrong reasons he was trending on twitter. He remains cemented to the news through this news cycle. And john, i want to play for you some of the words from the other man in the news and that is this georgia secretary of state. Well play what he said. This has to do as much with trump as anything else. 24,000 people did not vote in the fall either. They did not vote absentee because they were told by the president dont vote absentee its not secure. But then they did not come out and vote in person. He actually suppressed his voting base. So, john, do you find that plausible that the prest he was warned contemporaneously by republicans on the ballot, look, be careful what you wish for here, this could hurt the home team. Yeah, i mean, we have not done the proper analysis of this yet, brian, but its always been my view as we got closer and closer to election day that donald trump would then end have committed one of the great political own goals against himself by telling his voters in the middle of a pandemic that voting by mail or voting early, voting absentee, any of the above were all going to be considered considered illegitimate in his eyes. Historicically speaking theres no republican you and i know early vote historically has benefitted republicans over democrats. Democrats were taking the pandemic more seriously because of other things donald trump had done over the course of the last seven months in downplaying the importance of the pandemic. But theres no doubt in every battleground state donald trump cost himself votes by telling republicans to that they had to vote on election day. And as the virus surged in the final two weeks of the campaign theres no doubt some republicans decided im just staying home. Both of these gentlemen are under orders not to move a muscle. Were going to fit in a break. When we come back an uncheck Public Health crisis, sudden u. S. Troop movements, a lame duck president who has stopped taking questions. Its a lot. Well tackle some of it when we come back. L tackle some of it w come back. S. doorbell rings s. Thanks splitsies . Oooh. You meant the food, didnt you . This is the feeling of total protection now that we protect your identity, and mobile phone, as well as auto home and life youve never been in better hands allstate click or call for a quote today our own hopes and dreams. Well pass many milestones. Moments that define you. And drive you. To achieve even more. So, celebrate every one. Because success isnt just about where you want to get to. Its also about how you get there the all new 2021 cadillac escalade. Never stop arriving. Its also about how you get there listen to what every strain. Every twistoof and every backache is telling you you cannot do this. Pain says you cant. Advil says you can. I think its extremely important here in the next couple of months not to have any earth shaking changes with regard to defense and Foreign Policy. I think a precipitous drawn down in either afghanistan or iraq would be a mistake. It was straight up revolutionary that Mitch Mcconnell went that far today, bipartisan outcry over the president s decision to draw down troops in afghanistan and iraq is growing louder today. Democratic senator and Army Veteran Tammy Duckworth who nearly lost her life when her chopper was shot down in iraq summed up the president s lameduck military actions this way. Ive been talking about this and the threat to our National Security posed by President Trump actually firing secretary esper and hollowing out the top levels of the pentagon. And now we know why he did it. He did it so he can make this really rash decision which will put our troops in harms way. President trump literally wants to blow everything up as he goes out the door. We are back. John heilemanns with us. To be completely honest well have some signal difficulty with Eugene Robinson. Were working on that. Hey, john, this of all the issues appears to have spread out some seedlings of intestinal fortitude among republicans. When you think of the last four years of all the things republicans could have grown a pair and reacted to why this, why now . Well, brian, you know i think well recall maybe in the course of the four years there was the one time when republicans overrode the white house on the question of sanctions against russia. I think thats maybe the only example i can think of in the same bucket, a similar bucket which is to say National Security. And i dont want to give them too much credit. Intestinal fortitude probably overstates the case. But i do think what it really speaks to is Mitch Mcconnell some of of these other republicans are seeing the writing on the wall and trying to summon some some, a modicum, a minuscule dollop of their old selves and trying to think about something other than purely their partisan power. I think its something they think theyll be able to get away because its a matter of policy and not a matter that goes to his ego and not a matter that goes to the question the fantasy that he actually won this election they think maybe they can get away with crossing him without paying the kind of electoral or political penalty that they fear if they went up against him in other areas. Eugene, youre back in time to hear me quote one of my favorite writers by the name of Eugene Robinson of the Washington Post who writes in his most recent column. This is becoming like greek tragedy. The nation is on fire with covid19. Cases and hospitalizations are soaring to Unthinkable New highs and our leader does nothing but rage and moan about his own punishment at the hands of cruel fate. If it is true that those whom the gods would destroy they first make mad, then President Trump is finishing his sham balk term in office as mad king donald. As you look at the next 64 days is there to your fear an unlimited panoply of things the president could yet to do . Yeah, i mean im very worried, brian. Im very worried about these next 60 days because this is already totally unhinged. Hes determined to take revenge against officials who were not fishily loyal. He just fired chris krebs, the Election Security official who had the temerity to do his job and to report this was a very safe and secure election that was not affected by undue influence, that was very clean. And he gets fired. He fired the secretary of defense who didnt want to who objected to what he wanted to do in afghanistan in iraq and also was seen as insufficiently loyal in general in the last few days. I wondered what would happen to the chiefs of other agencies. Gina haspel of cia, chris wray at fbi. It is not clear to me that donald trump wont continue with what can only be called a purge. And its a purge simply being carried out for revenge. Revenge against perceived enemies. I think were going to see a lot of this. I think were going to see a lot of erratic and perhaps dangerous behavior. And frankly, january 20th cant come fast enough because i think this is a very precarious and dangerous period were going to have to go through between here and there. A purge of those with expertise doing their jobs. To our guests Eugene Robinson and john heilemann, our thanks for coming on tonight, gentlemen. Coming up for us, up next our next guest calls president ial memoirs a fools errand. Thats important because we heard something about a new president ial memoir just out today. A new president ial memoir just out today. If you have postmenopausal osteoporosis and a high risk for fracture, now might not be the best time to ask yourself, are my bones strong . Life is full of make or break moments. Thats why its so important to help reduce your risk of fracture with prolia®. 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And ask your doctor if biktarvy is right for you. If youre living with hiv, keep loving who you are. To use your vision benefits before the years up. This is us making sure you dont. Use em before you lose em, backed by our 100day guarantee visionworks. See the difference. When panhe doesnt justs mmake a pizza. He uses fresh, clean ingredients to make a masterpiece. Taste our delicious new flatbread pizzas today. Panera. You called the book the promise land. Im sure there are multiple titles that you went through but you landed on promise land because because it captures that sense that i believe there is a promise land out there, and this goes back to this american idea. The stakes in making america work are not just important for americans but for the world. The president s highly anticipated new book a promise land was released just today. A review by nate marshal in obamas hometown paper the Chicago Tribune says, quote, the obama that shines through the text is certainly brilliant and analytical but with little philosophical or ideological heft. One moment of genuine insight is when obama remarks upon his own deification. He reacts with a sort of bemused confusion at the news he has been awarded the nobel peace prize. Were happy to have nate marshal, a writer, educator, playwright and more. Hes also the author of the multiaward winning book of poetry wildhundreds. I concar with yur with you on president ial memoirs. I think the last good one might have been ulysses s. Grant. You have written very praise worthy things about this president before. Hows the book . Its fine. You know, i think you could skip it. Its also 45. Its more money than most books out there. I think youre fine if you dont read it. Oh, come on, you cant leave it at that, can you . So this is the thing, right . Hey, nate, weve lost your audio and i dont think you could be on mute because your hands have been free and in the frame the entire time weve been on with you. Lets keep trying and see if our control room can bring nate marshal back up. How about now . We dont have Nate Marshalls audio. Oh, there was so much to discuss. Nate, im crestfallen over this development. Well take a break. We will endeavor to get it back knowing were wasting valuable time. Well come back hopefully with nate marshal who we can see and hear. Te marshal who we can see hear we are back. Im told we can hear nate now, and we left the conversation with me somewhat incredulously asking him how someone could just skip this book even given its cost of 45. Nate, its all yours. Yeah, you know, theres a lot of books out there. I think there are better ones probably written by this president and will be written about this presidency. The president ial memoir has always been a sort of fraught form when a president is writing about their legacy in the white house, but in particular when were talking about someone who who has been in this moment of social media, this moment of the 24 hour news cycle, we were there, we know what happened. In many ways i think president obama is not writing to us but to a moment of posterity. I would have been fine if it he wrote it and stuck in his liz library for students or scholars to pick up 24 years down the line. Is there anything structurally that rubbed you the wrong way . Is it too tangential, too pan dettic, too slow . I know its a door stop of a book physically. Yeah, i think the physical dimensions of the book, if you will, having a 700 plus page book that is only volume one of a two volume set is a lot. And i think for me that sort of points to a president that needs a bit more of an editorial eye, right . And he says it about himself when he talks about his sort of early failures on the stump in debates he has this tendency to overthink and articulate and i think you see that tendency on display here. He himself writes, quote, his supporters turned his likeness into a vessel for a million different dreams. I think thats a good line. I think it has the added advantage of being true. But something Something Else has happened. He has the legacy of a smart as i say often pedantic, often very cautious, always proper scandalfree twoterm presidency that has only been burnished every day hes been out of office by comparison to our current president. Youll concede that that has happened without his doing to his legacy and our memory of him. Oh, absolutely. When we talk about this moment in history if there is a history that talks about this moment, were going to talk about the obamatrump legacy. I think that that is the era that we have been living through and living under. And hes always for better and for worse going to be tied to the presidency of donald trump as well, right . If only as a kind of Counter Point as you said, right . Would you have had it another way . If youd been in charge would have wanted him being more vocal violating that kind of theyve all been gentlemen but the gentlemens agreement about former president s not criticizing those in office . And do you think the freedom of a book tour, the pressure of a book tour and being more of a public figure will free up barack obama to say more about what he has really made of these past four years . Yeah, thats a good question. I think that it wont i think itll be fine, right, particularly this is going to be a book tour on zoom much like the book tour ive been on for the last couple of months. But and so that is a different kind of beast than, you know, doing the sort of stadium tour that michelle did with becoming so thats a different piece. But i think that president obama is a really thoughtful person, right . But i also question in some ways like what has been the kind of moral center of his presidency and of his sort of leadership style even in a postpresidency moment, right . I dont begrudge him for talking trash about donald trump. I think theres plenty of trash to be talked and frankly more than him or you or me could say on the time weve allotted on the rest of the planet. So, you know, talk on, but, yeah i just think i wish hed done more and i wish he would continue to do more, right . I get it. And you hear that from a lot of folks. Nate marshall, thank you for your forbearance, your patience with us. Thank you for coming on. Its great to have the viewpoint of a fellow chicagoan and a long time obama watcher. And as your backdrop makes clear this time of year the mountains of chicago look beautiful. Nate marshall has been our guest tonight. Thank you so much. Coming up, trump tells the bad guys what hes planning to do and the bad guys celebrate. When we come back. Guys celebra. When we come back. How about no no uh uh, no way come on, no no nnnnono only discover has no annual fee on any card. Lexus has been celebrating driveway moments. Heres to one more, the lexus december to remember sales event. Lease the 2021 rx 350 for 419 a month for 36 months and well make your first months payment. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. Transitions light under control. Upbeat music transitions signature gen 8, available now in 4 new style colors. Transitions. Look at this human trying you know what he will get . Muscle pain. Give up, the couch is calling. I say, its me, the couch, im calling. Pain says you cant. Advil says you can. This is exactly what President Trump said he would never do, that he would never telegraph to the enemy u. S. Troop movements. Which brings us to the last thing before we go tonight. Not for nothing hes our chief Foreign Correspondent in part because Richard Engel pays attention. He was reporting tonight on overseas reaction to the news that trump has now told the world how many troops were taking out of afghanistan and iraq, when were taking them out and how Many Americans in uniform that will leave behind. He has not only telegraphed a plan, he has meticiously laid it out in public for the world to hear. As if to spike the ball in advance terrorists rocketed the green zone today and killed a child in downtown baghdad. This is what happens when you tell the enemy your plans. And trump repeatedly warned us about exactly what he did today. We need unpredictability. Were like bad checker players. Why dont you tell us exactly what youre going to do in syria, what were going to do in iraq. I said i dont want to tell you. I hate those questions. You know why . Because i want to be unpredictable. I dont want to tell isis what im going to do. Obama gets up. We will leave iraq, and he gives a date. I would never have given a date. I might have said were going to stay there for 20 years, were going to stay there for eternity. We have to be unpredictable a little bit. We cant keep talking were going to do this, were going to do that. Remember the great generals called the element of surprise. Im saying i dont want to tell you. They said oh, you dont know the answer. I dont want the enemy to know all this stuff, right . Trump Administration Today said the troops will be out of there by january 15th. That was donald trump on how to do Foreign Policy. Sure enough he did it today leaving an enormous challenge for the next president who assumes office at 12 00 noon on january. Thanks for being with us on behalf of all my colleagues at the networks of nbc news, good night. Rachel is still quarantining after a close contact tested positive for covid19. She is fine and she will be back as soon as possible. Were going to start with news thats just broken in the last couple of hours, but i want to give you context here. First, as you know, president