Her record as a secretary of state. Benghazi. Boko haram. Syria, russia. Please, tell us in your expert opinion. What does that say about benghazi and about her leadership abilities . Benghazi. Benghazi. Benghazi. Given the month she just had, i actually doubt very much whether she actually will run for president in 2016. They want to scare Hillary Clinton out of the race. Engaging in cheap shots is not going to back off Hillary Clinton. Its going to be very hard to scare her. She has seen it all. Their strategy is backfiring. This is a resilient woman. She was raised to be resilient, and all of this talk will only serve to strengthen that backbone of steel. Good evening. Im ari melber in for lawrence odonnell. At a private fundraiser tonight president obama summed up the republicans 2014 plan. He said, the debate now is about what . Benghazi . Obamacare . It becomes this endless loop. The House Republican campaign arm admits they are running on benghazi in 2014, saying, we always advise candidates to do what fits with their position on the issues and represents their district, but clearly benghazi is just another example of why we need a check and a balance on this administration. It appears secretary clinton is playing an increasingly prominent role in the benghazi conspiracy theory. Do you know where the idea for this video originated . Do you know who it was that came up with that . Do you have any idea who found that video and decided to use that . And the answer to that is mrs. Clinton. Folks. Nobody knew at the time that it was part of the strategy to create the video as the blame for everything that would happen in the middle east on that day and night. It was terrorist activity and all that. And even so, after learning that they still sent susan rice out on the five sunday shows to lie and still focus on the video. That might be okay if it was confined to rightwing radio. But republican senators have also decided they want their own select committee devoted completely to benghazi and the conservative credibility that would come with a highprofile witch hunt on president obama and Hillary Clinton. In an extraordinarily weird press conference last thursday, one you really have to see to believe, South Carolina senator lindsey graham, who is facing, we should mention, a primary battle on june 10th, said hes going to demand answers from susan rice about . About Hillary Clintons health. If you believe susan rice, it was a request of secretary clinton to appear on tv. She declined. And if you believe susan rice, it was because secretary clinton had a grueling week. Is that important . I think it is. I am very suspicious of this statement. I think most of us who know secretary clinton understand shes a very energetic lady, been through a lot. Quite frankly a tough person. But lets just assume for a moment thats true. What does that say . About benghazi and about her leadership abilities. What does that say . Hes not joking. Now, senator grahams comments come in a context here. The karl rovesparked speculation that Hillary Clinton may have brain damage. Dr. Rove was grilled about that again, actually, on fox news yesterday. This one may be too much for fox news. It was Chris Wallace with an assist from the fox news political panel. Let me just ask a question. Do you really have doubts about her physical capabilities . No, no, no. I dont. Im not questioning her health. What im questioning is is whether or not its a done deal that shes running. He says hes not bringing up mrs. Clintons health, but you are bringing it up. I brought up her you are i didnt question i did not say she had brain damage. It wasnt a matter of parsing karls words. It was the impact was Hillary Clinton may have suffered brain damage yeah, it was implicit in what was said. Thats fair. She suffered no longterm damage from this. Its mustsee tv right there. Joining me now, richard wolffe, executive editor of msnbc. Com and karen finney, host of msnbcs disrupt with karen finney. Welcome to you both. Hey, ari. Thanks, ari. Richard, where do you want to begin . Lets start with the fact that as i mentioned, this is too much of an antihillary conspiracy for fox news. Look, im not questioning karl roves judgment in any way, shape, or form. Im just wondering if hes lost all his clients and needs to defend his reputation given that his last client took the country into a disastrous war. But thats not saying anything about his political judgment right now. At all. I just want to make that clear. Karen, dr. Finney, what do you think . Well, remember, he was we thought he was bushs brain . So you know, now it seems like hes a little scrambled. But this is what rove did, it was very intentional. He knew exactly what he was doing. He essentially has done this throughout his career. So we shouldnt be surprised. You know, he mainstreamed this piece of gossipx then you kind of try to say i didnt say i think i loved the first answer, which was i didnt say brain damage. I said serious, you know, trauma or Something Like that. Right. You know, we know exactly what hes doing. Yeah. I guess what is slightly different here is i do think theres an accountability mechanism and it can be a good thing to actually put this up and make him answer for it. His answers have been weak. Take a listen, though, to other republicans including bill kristol whos known if nothing else as a guy who thinks about republican strategy all day long. He doesnt think this is working. Take a listen. You know karl rove pretty well. Was this a shrewd move by karl or did he kind of overstep . I dont think this was a particularly shrewd move. I mean, well see how secretary clintons health is. Shell be out there campaigning presumably. Shell i imagine her health will be fine. But in any case, people can see for themselves. So theres no reason for karl rove to speculate about it. I agree with bill. I think your point, i dont think it was helpful for a political operative as opposed to journalists to begin this whole story. But i also think in a funny way it will work for mrs. Clintons benefit. When peggy talks there about mrs. Clintons benefit, part of the issue is if you take something that might have a legitimate version, pressure on a candidate to release health records, for example, and you muddy it up this badly, you may scare a lot of your other potential allies out of it. Yeah. Look, its a personal attack on a candidate who technically isnt running and doesnt have a press operation to push back on this. I guess this ridiculously early stage it can win some sympathy for secretary clinton. But more importantly, if you are a republican ideologue, strategist, call him what you like, what do you think youre positioning your party for . What are you running on . You may be running against a candidate who hasnt declared raising questions. But that is not an affirmative agenda for a party going into the midterms or someone laying the predicate for president ial change of tone and direction. And thats what republicans need to do right now. Go ahead. I was just going to say, you know, basically what hes done, this is like the birther stuff, right . So now theyve set it up that, well, she can just answer these questions by, you know, releasing those records, right . So that becomes part of the story. And then if you also listen to what rove was saying, he was saying, you know, shell have to be forthcoming. So its not just about and i do think those are the kinds of messages that do seep in. So its not just about her health. Hes also now made this about shes got to release the records to answer this very simple question, and maybe she would have had to anyway. But then its also this question of will she be forthcoming with the information . And that is a narrative weve heard from them before. Sure. And that brings us back to my Favorite Senate press conference in a while, favorite in a bad way, which was lindsey graham. Hes supposed to be this serious wing of the republican Foreign Policy circles. He worked with senator mccain to rewrite our rules at guantanamo. He is not a random house member. And hes going deep down what jon stewart called the benghazi rabbit hole to pull at her health in this theory, richard. I think he may have been auditioning for a part in the next series of house of cards. Because theres no rational explanation. Heres someone with National Security expertise who is now pandering to the worst parts of the Rightwing Echo Chamber about the deaths of three people engaged in active Foreign Service and Diplomatic Service for this country. Im astonished. But you know, you made a play there saying its because hes in a primary. Well, hes going to win his primary. He does not need to do this. He doesnt need to curry favor with some parts of fox news. I cannot explain why hes doing it. Right. And look, you mentioned the fox news and their concern about this. Theres a strategic break there with one of their star commentators and also part of the republican leadership. Before we go, karen, take a listen to Reince Priebus explaining his role and his qualifications on the issue raised by his friend karl. Take a listen. Sure. The issue of her health and her age is going to come up. Do you think she suffered some sort of brain injury that raises legitimate questions about whether shes healthy to serve as commander in chief . Im not a doctor. Karen . Again, reince knew exactly what he was doing. Although one of the things i like to remind people if were really worried about age, remember, women live longer than men. And people are living longer lives. Somebody said yesterday on my show, 70 is the new 60. So if were really questioning whether or not she will be fit to serve, its a little ridiculous. And they not only live longer, something richard and i were discussing, theyre always smarter. Always. I dont know if you knew that. Im glad you guys know that. Karen finney and richard wolffe, thank you for joining me. Going down the rabbit hole a little bit. Coming up, republicans hope they dont end up with an extreme candidate for the senate race in georgia tomorrow night because democrats, turns out, have a pretty strong challenger of themselves. Joy reid joins me next on that. And the movie Dallas Buyers Club has inspired colorado lawmakers to do something interesting. They want to let sick people get more access to experimental drugs before those drugs get fda approval. And later, the u. S. Says it has proof now that china is illegally hacking into our companies and our businesses. That is straight ahead. Mine was earned in korea in 1953. Afghanistan, in 2009. Orbiting the moon in 1971. [ male announcer ] once its earned, usaa Auto Insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. Because it offers a superior level of protection. And because usaas commitment to serve current and former military members and their families is without equal. Begin your legacy. Get an Auto Insurance quote. Usaa. We know what it means to serve. Today announcing that the Bank Credit Suisse has been forced into pleading guilty to criminal charges. The company will pay over 2. 5 billion in penalties. The charges are related to tax evasion. And it will have to terminate some selected employees according to regulators in new york. Credit suisse would be now the largest bank to plead guilty to a criminal charge in over two decades according to the doj. Next up, we will look at a different kind of accountability. Tomorrow its go time for some Tea Party Challengers taking on the republican establishment in several states. Weve got your briefing ready for super tuesday. All stations come over to mission a for a final go. This is for real this time. Step seven point two one two. Verify and lock. Command is locked. Five seconds. Three, two, one. Standing by for capture. The most Innovative Software on the planet. Dragon is captured. Is connecting todays leading companies to places beyond it. Siemens. Answers. Looking towards tomorrows midterms super tuesday primaries Establishment Republicans are closing ranks in georgia where Tea Party Candidates have been splitting up some of the hard right vote but the incumbents are already arch conservatives there. Congressman Jack Kingston is in the running for a promotion to the senate and he hasnt been noticeably hurt by suggesting that lowincome kids who are eligible for a free lunch should at least pay something for it like sweeping up their cafeter a cafeteri cafeterias. Why dont you have the kids pay a dime, pay a knick toll instill in them that there is, in fact, no such thing as a free lunch. Or maybe sweep the floor in the cafeteria. Yes, i understand that that would be an administrative problem, and i understand that it would probably lose you money. But think what we would gain as a society in getting people meting the myth out of their head that there is such a thing as a free lunch. Youve got to do that. Youve got to get that myth out of their little heads. Kingston is squaring off against conservative karen handle. She stepped down from the susan komen charity after a controversy over the group pulling funding from planned parenthood. Theyre both behind frontrunner david purdue. Purdue is very conservative, has the backing of many Establishment Republicans. A candidate needs 50 of the vote to avoid a runoff. The republicans need to elect a formidable candidate if theyre going to beat Michelle Nunn, who is a pretty strong democrat thats emerged there. Nunn is the former ceo of president george h. W. Bushs points of light organization. Shes also the daughter of longtime georgia senator sam nunn. If elected she would be the first female senator from georgia and the first democratic senator there since max cleland left in 2002. Joining me now, the host of msnbcs the reid report, joy reid. She interviewed Michelle Nunn over the weekend. Im going to play some sound from your interview. But first tell us what you found out. Its interesting because you have a lot of georgians who the last time they voted for a democrat the name was nunn. Sam nunn was a pretty popular sort of middle of the road democratic senator. So that name i. D. Is helping Michelle Nunn. You also of course have a carter on the ballot running for governor. So you have a lot of familiar names on the democratic side which is actually seen as very helpful. And what Michelle Nunn is essentially doing is shes running as a very inoffensive type of democrat. Shes not an obama democrat. She doesnt even say shes a democrat in her ads. And if you look on her website, she lists a lot of her priorities, Campaign Finance reform, getting georgia families in order. She does not list the Affordable Care act. Not a word about it on the website. So shes not running affirmatively as the kind of democrat you would think wouldnt do well in georgia. Right. And that goes to where the National Politics differ from the state politics. Bush one, if we look at the Georgia Election history, you won in 2004 by 17 points. That swung 12 points when obama came in, obviously altering the turnout universe. And yet these are the midterms as we all know, its a very different environment. Lets play some of your interview to get a sense of Michelle Nunn. Im in southwest georgia. They tell me we have one of the highest premiums in the country. So we need to add more affordability for families and individual. I think we need to extend tax credits for small businesses. Because our state did not expand medicaid, which i think was a mistake, but we need to make sure to repeal the cuts that are happening or could happen to our rural hospitals. And then i think we need to build up on the things that are working. I talk increasingly to people who come up to me and say i have health care for the first time. I had a preexisting condition and i now have access to real health care. Whoever the republican is that faces you in november, theyre going to run against you on the obamacare. Are you going to run affirmativeaffirmativ affirmatively on the Affordable Care act . Im going to say we need to put people ahead of politics and focus on what do we need to do to expand medicaid and to actually build upon things that are working and change the things that arent in terms of health care. So more medicaid than obamaca obamacare. Yeah. And of course medicaid being a state issue. So shes essentially running on the things that georgians want. Georgians actually pollingwise prefer to expand medicaid. Its something that they want done that their state is not doing currently. And shes running on the parts of the Affordable Care act that are popular. You see she mentioned the rural hospitals. The cuts for people who do not for states that dont expand medicaid, their associated cuts are really hurting rural hospitals. Shes hitting that and shes hitting the parts of the Affordable Care act that are popular without embracing the entire law. Thats really the way you run on the Affordable Care act in a red state. Right. And theres nothing wrong with that. Its arguably a nuanced policy approach as well. I want to give a little shout out here to Jack Kingston. My heart goes out to him a little bit. Because he is by all accounts one of the most conservative members of congress and the voting records and all that. Hes with the tea party on everything. And yet in this bizarro Georgia Tea Party world he gets attacked for surrendering to president obama, which is news to everyone. Take a look at this ad from phil gingrey. Georgians can send a true conservative to the senate. But will we condone karen handlells vote for youth pride that promotes teenage moment homosexuality . Or david perdue championing common core with obama, taking education decisions away from parents . Or Jack Kingston siding with liberals, surrendering to obamacare. I mean, thats got to burn you up if you vote for repeal 40 times and then they still say you surrendered. And Jack Kingston is not considered the frontrunner right now as you mentioned, David Perdues ahead of him, whos got sort of a mitt romney problem where hes run these business thats have lost like 8,000 jobs. But in this race those three candidates are considered the establishment. There are actually people even further to the right. Youve got paul brown who said that evolution is a lie straight from the pit of hell. Thats one of our also rans. Then of course you also played phil gingrey who said that todd akins legitimate rape comments, they might not be so far off. So there are people actually far to the right of kingston. So his problem now is hes looked at as the establishment because hes an elected official from evil washington. And thats a bigger point, and it will be interesting when we watch these returns tomorrow night, is does it matter what happens to these Tea Party Candidates or have they so fully scammed their fiscal austerity conservatism on the establishment that theyve already won in that sense . Joy reid, thanks for being here tonight. Thank you. Appreciate it. And you can tune in as i mentioned tomorrow at 10 00 p. M. Eastern for special coverage of tuesdays primaries. Chris matthews will be here. Coming up, the Dallas Buyers Club and colorados controversial idea to help sick people get drugs they say they need. Thats next. Cars are driven by people. Theyre why we innovate. Theyre who we protect. Theyre why we make life less complicated. Its about people. We are volvo of sweden. Ugh. Heartburn. Did someone say burn . Try alka seltzer reliefchews. 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Check your speed. See how fast your internet can be. Switch now and add voice and tv for 34. 90. Comcast business built for business. Roger thompson. This is my patient. Youre treating these people . Theyre treating themselves. With what . Vitamins, peptide tea, ddc, anything but that poison youre hucking. You ever wear any color . Seems like every time i see you all i see is white. White coat, white shoes, white i am telling my patients to stay away from here. Why . Life may be imitating art in colorado. Tonight governor John Hicken Looper just signed a right to try law, which makes colorado the first state to allow terminally ill patients to participate in certain Clinical Trials using medications and device thats have not been fully approved by the fda. One of the cosponsors has since dubbed its Dallas Buyers Club bill the name taken of course from last years oscarwinninging film about an aids patient who smuggles in treatments from mexico to help himself and others. The real inspiration in colorado came from nick auden, a father of three with stage 4 melanoma who died while unsuccessfully lobbying two companies to use an experimental drug outside of traditional Clinical Trials. I think i can be a case study for this drug and to show how it works. What they need actually is someone with melanoma whos fit and strong. I have melanoma, and im fit and strong. And with that drug i can defeat this. My dad is so strong that he can get better. Meanwhile, similar right to try bills await governors signatures in louisiana and missouri while arizona voters will vote on the issue directly in november. Proponents of these laws say they add a bit more flexibility for people fighting for their life or for at least a little more time. But many opponents, including some physicians and ethicists argue that however well intentioned the policy maybe the science suggests this kind of experimentation can not only breed false hope but even potentially hurt the very patients its designed to help. Joining me now on this important topic is dr. Zeke emanuel, a former Health Policy adviser to president obama and chair of medical ethics and Health Policy at the university of pennsylvania and frank burrows, founder of Abigail Alliance for better access to developmental drugs, which has helped push for some of these right to try laws after his daughter died before getting an experimental treatment. Welcome to you both. Nice to be here. Nice to be here tonight. Thanks for the invite. Of course. Frank, let me start with you. Why do you think this law is the right thing to do in this case for terminally ill patients . Weve been working the Abigail Alliance for better access to developmental drugs has been working on this for 13 years. And its important that people have a chance to fight for their life. And let me start off with something thats really profound and says so much. Every drug for cancer and other serious lifethreatening illness that the Abigail Alliance has pushed for earlier access to in our 13year history is now approved by the fda. Not one drug failed to make it through the Clinical Trial process. Zeke, let me bring you in there. Youve argued that there are both professional and ethical problems with some of these proposals. Why is that . So you know, theres a reason we have the fda and we have a very strict way of approving drugs and testing them out in humans. Its Snake Oil Salesmen and drugs that harm people and we find out after the fact because we didnt do the proper trials. Look, im an oncologist. Every single patient who dies is a tragedy and its very painful for everyone, the family, the doctor, everyone involved. We want to get drugs to trial to the public. We want to get them as fast as possible. The best way to do that is to go through the Clinical Trials process, not to do a oneoff here and a oneoff there where we dont get data. Plus, if we do these trials early, i mean, if we just experiment with people early, were not actually getting data that allow us to critically and scientifically assess a drug. This is going to actually slow down getting drugs to patients, not speed it up. Zeke, let the last thing i would say is most drug reputable Drug Companies dont want to release their drugs to haphazard trial like this. They want to do it orderly. So zeke, lets dive in on that point and then im going to go back to frank. On the point about the trials, when you say data, that can sound sort of in the clouds. I think what youre driving at is thats important because that is a predicate to getting these things approved so they can actually go to market on a mass scale. Its a predicate for knowing whether the drug actually works or doesnt work, is simply not helping a patient or actually harming a patient. And unless you have the data, you cant really know that. And just releasing it to one person doesnt tell you whether a drug works or doesnt work. You need lots of people and you need an orderly process. Theres usually a threestep process to actually testing out a drug and seeing whether it works. And then you actually have to follow lots of people in the public after you release the drug to make sure its not causing some rare but very serious harm. All of that is overseen by the fda, who i think has done in general a good job here. Not perfect but a very good job. And we shouldnt disrupt that. Weve gotten a lot of new drugs over the past few years precisely because we follow this orderly process. And also, we have a lot of therapies for aids precisely because we follow this same orderly process. So frank, let me get your thoughts on that. And also speak to what the fda says here, which they already allow access to these kind of investigative drugs. Outside of Clinical Trials they have something as you know that they call the expanded access or compassionate use provision. And it basically allows for access to experimental drugs outside of a Clinical Trial. The patients must have a lifethreatening disease or condition and no therapeutic alternatives. A manufacturer and the doctor then would make special arrangements. Why isnt that enough if thats current federal law . Well, weve got two questions there. So ill try to go with the first one. And first of all, no one was listening to what i was saying when i first spoke tonight, and that is every drug weve pushed for is now approved. What weve been talking about is promising investigational drugs, drugs that show promise. The other thing is that you can have the fda doing careful studies, at the same time granting earlier access to people whove run out of options in their battle to live. And speak to the ill go to you in a second, zeke. Speak to the statefederal point. Some people say this is a lot of false hope because the states dont regulate the way the fda does. Again, were talking about promising this is a good point, though. Let me put this in. What we have found in 13 years, we hear from patients all the time, theyre not after just any drug. They are looking after drugs that they have found on the internet, theyve worked with their doctors, and that show promise in early Clinical Trials. They want something that has some hope. They are a lot more savvy than a lot of people give them credit for. So again, were talking about promising investigational drugs. And remember, every drug we push for is now approved. Thats what were talking about here. And you can have that at the same time youre having a careful Clinical Trial evaluation. Zeke, briefly. That is false. Lets make three points. If you make the drug available without entering a Clinical Trial, you will thats not what i said. That is not what i said. You will siphon off people who would enroll in the Clinical Trial. You will make it slower to actually assess whether a drug works or doesnt. And you will then slow down getting the drug to many more people. Thats not thats absolutely not true. And if second point. This is very important. Theres nothing in these laws that can force a drug company to release the drug to people. Drug companies have to want to do this. And typically they dont want the reputable ones dont want to release it. And i think that gentlemen, i think thats a big im going to jump in, zeke, because were out of time. Zeke, i have to gentlemen, im jumping in because we are out of time. We wanted to have the conversation because its important. I appreciate the points raised. And end of life issues require even more time than we have, i admit. But we are going to go and hopefully talk to both of you about it again. Zeke emanuel and frank burroughs. Thank you for your time tonight. And coming up with so many people lately saying disparaging things about race, Michelle Obama says actually something inspiring. That is next. And for the first time members of Chinas Peoples Liberation Army are indicted on hacking charges against the u. S. Of a. Honestly, the offseason isnt really off for me. Ive got a lot to do. Thats why i got my surface. Its great for watching game film and drawing up plays. Its got onenote, so i can stay on top of my todo list, which has been absolutely absurd since the big game. 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Historically we felt it enough to simply comply with local laws regarding the open or concealed carrying of firearms because we believe that it is not fair to put our taemt members in the uncomfortable position of asking that customers refrain from bringing guns into our restaurants. However because of display of guns in our restaurants has created an environment that is intimidating or uncomfortable for many of our customers we think its time to make this request. Well see if people honor it. Now, up next, two extraordinary speeches on one very difficult topic race. Dorian warren joins me next. Cut [bell rings] this. Is jane. Her long day on set starts with shoulder pain. And a choice take 6 tylenol in a day which is 2 aleve for. All day relief. Hmm. [bell ring] roll sound action add brand new belongings from nationwide insurance. And well replace destroyed or stolen items with brandnew versions. We put members first. Join the nation. 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And we do it all for this very experience. This very second. This exact moment. [woman] thats good. I know right . Cheers to that. Gevalia. 150 years of rich, never bitter coffee. You all take the diversity youre surrounded by for granted. You probably dont even notice it. And then when some folks got all worked up about a cereal commercial with an interracial family you all were probably thinking, really . Whats the problem with that . But remember, not everyone has grown up in a place like topeka. See, many districts in this country have actually pulled back on efforts to integrate their schools, and many communities have become less diverse as folks have moved from cities to suburbs. So graduates, the truth is that brown versus board of ed isnt just about our history. Its about our future. First lady Michelle Obama spoke to graduating students in topeka, kansas on saturday in the School District that was integrated by brown, the Landmark Supreme Court case. It was the 60th anniversary of that famous Supreme Court decision. And the Obama Administration sent out two very prominent faces to mark the anniversary, the first lady and the man at the center of some of the administrations most farreaching civil rights reforms, eric holder. The biggest threats do not announce themselves in screaming headlines. They are more subtle. They cut deep. And their terrible impact endures long after the headlines have faded, the obvious ignorant expressions of hatred have been marginalized. And these issues go well beyond the walls of our schools. We know that today in america too many folks are still stopped on the street because of the color of their skin. Or theyre made to feel unwelcome because of where they come from or theyre bullied because of who they love. The attorney general also directly cited the recent controversies around Donald Sterling and cliven bundy but cautioned against taking too much satisfaction in the condemnation of those rants. Instead he argued that systemic racism in our Justice System and our economy is far more important. And holder emphasized three specific areas where more real reform is needed. In criminal sentencing, where the Obama Administration has been changing harsh sentencing rules and mandatory minimum drug laws that discriminate by race. In voter protection, where he cast the overwhelmingly republican efforts to limit the right to vote as a modern moral failing. And in the erosion of civil rights protections at the Supreme Court, where he singled out chief Justice John Roberts decision that argues that ignoring race is the best remedy for racism. That approach, holder said this weekend, incorrectly presupposes that Racial Discrimination is at a sufficiently low ebb that it doesnt need to be actively confronted. When in fact, holder argued, courts should continue their historic role of actively scrutinizing and striking down laws that discriminate. Joining me now to reflect on the anniversary here is Dorian Warren a columbia professor who studies inequality in politics, also an msnbc contributor. Good evening to you. What do you take from these twin speeches on this anniversary . I think there are two ways to think about both of these speeches. The first is that we cant imagine anyone in the Obama Administration in the first term talking as explicitly about racial inequality. So theres been a noticeable shift to both attorney general he can eric holder, first lady Michelle Obama, giving these significant speeches about race and race sxmz racial inequality. Thats the first notable thing. Secondly, and i am a nerd, and so i love this, there is social Science Research embedded in these speeches. So this is evidencebased policy making at its best. They are citing studies about the resegregation of public schools, about the disproportionate impact of sentencing laws on africanamericans. So theyre undergirding these speeches is evidence around what is the current state of racial inequality in america that i think is quite important for this administration to in many ways educate the American Public about the continuing problem of race. I think that rings true. I also think to some degree they did a division of labor. Yes. They coordinate these things as i know from working in politics. Theyre not going to do the same speech. But michelle came out and did the heart, whereas eric holder came out and really did the system. Let me play Michelle Obama talking about the heart, passive racism, and what is in our minds. Take a listen. Now, our laws may no longer separate us based on our skin color, but nothing in the constitution says we have to eat together in the lunch room or live together in the same neighborhoods. There is no court case against believing in stereotypes or thinking that certain kinds of hateful jokes or comments are funny. So the answers to many of our challenges today cant necessarily be found in our laws. These changes also need to take place in our hearts and in our minds. Thats certainly inspiring and true. Although it is also some of the language that sometimes is coopted by conservatives to suggest we dont need to do things. I want to put up on the screen some of eric holders reforms which he spoke of in his address that are quite concrete. Drug sentencing disparities reduced in the crack and cocaine context. Drug clemency criteria changed to deal with that and to deal with a lot of black men serving time that they literally wouldnt have been serving if they were just white and doing drugs. A smarter sentencing act is a proposal hes officially backed to do that on a wider scale. I should mention bipartisan and also changing mandatory mims. These are things the administration is already doing. But as i talk about that division of labor, they dont always, to your point, talk about it as racial systemic reform. Until now. And that is the shift that were seeing because he did attorney general holder in that speech did talk about those things as you pointed out and there was a division of labor. So the first lady did talk about hearts, and essentially we might think of that as cultural change. What other cultural change is needed to address racial inequality and racism . But then if we look at attorney general holders speech he says explicitly talk is not sufficient to deal with the challenge. It has to be about actions and policies. And i think by pivoting from the cliven bundy and Donald Sterling and the spectacle, as he called it, of focusing on peoples words, he helped pivot us back to what are the policies that are having a racially disparate impact on communities of color in particular . And where do you think the first lady fits in . Because as you mentioned this is a shift and she is one of the more popular people in the administration, although it wasnt always that way. I think she was talking to the Younger Generation after millennials and saying i know you that dont think these are big issues because you dont live in the world that our parents did or your parents did and grandparents, but by the way, there are still things that you have to do. And in fact, she used the word complexity, which i also appreciated, to say to the next generation, you have to figure this out. Now, were doing our job, but you have to figure this out as well. Yeah, its striking and its funny because sometimes people say what are the point of all these anniversaries, even the big ones . Her speech both made to students and with such an intergenerational focus really made for an interesting reflection on brown, which is a high point in american law. Quickly. And the administration in some ways could not avoid talking about race on these anniversaries. The 60th anniversary of brown, 50th anniversary of the 1964 civil rights act. And as Martha Stewart would say, that is a good thing. Professor Dorian Warren, thanks for being here today. Thanks, ari. Appreciate it. Absolutely. Coming up next the u. S. Says it has proof of chinese citizens conducting cyber warfare against American Companies. S you on you. You wouldnt have it any other way. But your erectile dysfunction it could be a question of blood flow. Cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be Ready Anytime the moments right. You can be more confident in your ability to be ready. And the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. Tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. 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Comcast business built for business. The nba has officially begun the process of forcing Donald Sterling to sell the l. A. Clippers. The nba released assertions today claiming that sterling engaged in conduct that has damaged the league and its teams, disparaged africanamericans, and mr. Sterlings actions damaged the nbas relationship with its consumer base, its fans. Sterling has until may 27th to respond and can then make his case to an nba board. Up next the u. S. Justice Department Says it has proof chinas attacking American Companies in cyberspace. And tea parties. Ill have more awkward conversations than im equipped for, because im raising two girls on my own. Ill worry about the economy more than a few times before theyre grown. But its for them, so ive found a way. Who matters most to you says the most about you. At massmutual were owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. Ready to plan for your future . Well help you get there. Marge you know, theres a more enjoyable way to get your fiber. Try phillips fiber good gummies. Theyre delicious, and an excellent source of fiber to help support regularity. Wife mmmm husband these are good marge the tasty side of fiber. From phillips. There was a boy who traveled to a faraway place where villages floated on water and castles were houses dragons lurked giants stood tall and the good queen showed the boy it could all be real avo whatever you can imagine, all in one place expedia, find yours today we are announcing an indictment against five officers of the chinese Peoples Liberation army for serious Cybersecurity Breaches against six american victim companies. These represent the first ever charges against known state actors for infiltrating United States commercial targets by cybermeans. This is a case alleging economic espionage by members of the chinese military. That was attorney general eric holder today announcing unprecedented charges against five members of the Peoples Liberation army for allegedly hacking into the Computer Systems of American Companies located in western pennsylvania. Companies include u. S. Steel, alcoa and Westinghouse Electric company. According to the indictment, the hackers stole information and trade secrets that could directly benefit chinese competitors. Chinas Foreign Ministry did deny the accusations and said its actually the u. S. Thats in the wrong saying for a long time its been obvious that the relevant u. S. Departments have been carrying out largescale organized cyber theft and cyber surveillance on foreign dignity ri dignitaries, corporations and individuals. China is the victim of u. S. Cybertheft and cybersurveillance. Currently the u. S. Doesnt have an extradition treat qi with charges leaving many skeptics wonder field goal these charges mean much of anything. The attorney general, however, doesnt think so. When a foreign nation uses military or intelligence resources and tools against an american executive or corporation, to obtain trade secrets or sensitive Business Information for the benefit of its stateowned companies, we must say enough is enough. Joining me now is michael lighter, former director of the National Counterterrorism center as well as an msnbc cybersecurity and National Security analyst. Good evening. Hi, ari. How are you . Im good. Walk us through the National Security implications here. Youve got a country that is at times a partner, obviously a keert, a competitor, and now engaged in allegedly what we consider criminal if not warlike activities. The. The key here is the u. S. Is distinguishing between traditional espionage, spying on a country for defense secrets, figuring out how they build their missiles or their tanks, and those countries, in this case china, who are using spying and the state power to spy and in this case cyberespionage to steal economic secrets from u. S. Companies and hand those over to Chinese Companies to advance those economic interests. And from a National Security perspective this is obviously very serious, as was noted in the press conference. It results in an enormous disadvantage to u. S. Companies, an advantage to Chinese Companies, and that can lead to u. S. Companies losing market share, having to lay people off and the like. So this is an ongoing fight between the u. S. And china and this is a serious escalation today by the United States. Right. And yet michael, walk us through some of the Foreign Policy dynamics because whether you think the chinese governments view here is right or wrong, it would seem to be earnestly held, that they actually dont buy our big distinction between business and government. And they say hey, if were going to talk, as the statement refers, if were going it talk about this, your government, the u. S. , is doing all sorts of Cyber Espionage and the like. And let me read one more point from the Washington Post where it says Chinese Intelligence Services are eager to understand how washington works. Hackers are often searching for the uchb seen forces that might explain how the administration approaches an issue, experts say. Many chinese officials presuming reports by think tanks or news organizations are secretly the work of government officials. Much as they would be in beijing. Break that all down for us. Well, i think its clear there is a difference whether or not theres a difference is open to debate. And what i mean by that is the u. S. Does not steal secrets, for example, from frances airbus and give to boeing so boeing can sell more aircraft. And that is what china is doing here. As you said, the chinese officials both deny that theyre doing any of this, and second, they say the u. S. , youre doing the same thing. And from my perspective there really is a difference. But if youre china and you have all stateowned enterprises, the government owns these economic levers, then that distinction is lost. What i think is key is china is an outlier in this activity. This isnt just a u. S. Versus china. This is largely not entirely but largely the world versus china. And it is only china that is doing this sort of activity at this scale really on a global perspective. And why do you think the Obama Administration decided to go so hard on this now . This has been going on for really many years. The indictment itself notes that some of this activity goes back to 2006, 2007. So this has been slowly escalating. It started to peak a little bit last year when the National Security adviser and president obama met with their chinese counterparts and said this has to stop. Really nothing changed. Some of it was publicized. The chinese slowed down, but ultimately nothing changed. So this was the next step to try to build additional pressure on the chinese. I dont think that this activity, certainly these individuals wont ever see a u. S. Court. And i dont think this initial act means a lot in terms of stopping china. But i do think it is an important step in trying to create more of a global effort to say to the chinese well keep spying on each other for defense and security reasons but there has to be a line drawn at these economic interests. Yeah. And if nothing else, regardless of what the indictments lead to with the court process, its interesting to see this public case made. Obviously, theyre trying to do something with that and have that be accountable for the worlds eyes. Micha michael leiter, thanks for your time tonight. Good to be here. As i mentioned earlier in the broadcast be tomorrow night there will be an Election Special report at 10 00 p. M. Eastern. And chris hayes is up next. Good evening from new york. Im christ hayes. It is primary night eve in america. Voters preparing to go to the polls in arkansas, georgia, idaho, oregon, and pennsylvania. And with the tea parties dominant. The stakes are high and the fight for victory has gotten downright nasty this evening. It is nasty in idaho, where the incumbent governor