Main event is now over. So that does it for us from hamburg tonight. Rachel will be back on monday, and i will see you again next friday live from iraq where we will take you to the front lines for the final push to drive isis out of the city of mosul. Now its time for the last good evening, richard. Thank you for all that reporting. But you go, i do want to ask you given everything, do you think putin got what he wanted out of President Trump today . I think he absolutely got what he wanted. I think he came in with this intention to have a long meeting. I think he wanted to overwhelm the president , presenting him lots of options, lots of things they could discuss, put some meat on the table for them to start digging right into it and hoping this will lead to more discussions, more followon, and a tighter relationship. Interesting. Richard engel, thank you very much. Absolutely. I am ari melber live in new
york for lawrence odonnell. Now for months, people have been watching to see if donald trump would pivot. Today it happened. President putin and i have been discussing various things, and i think its going very well. Weve learned the president did, in fact, confront putin for meddling in the u. S. Election. They had a very robust and lengthy exchange on the subject. Sergey lavrov coming out and saying that President Trump accepted putins denial. Translator he accepts the things that mr. Putin has said. One Administration Source is telling me that is not accurate. Bear in mind that unless it was tillerson himself, that person was not even in the room. Just yesterday, President Trump cast doubt on the allegations regarding russia. Nobody really knows. Nobody really knows for sure. It was only the russians, and they did so i have aggressively and effectively. At this point, lets talk
about how do we go forward. Yeah, lets. This idea of putting it behind us, i think, is a bit of a fantasy. There was a very clear, positive chemistry between the two. President putin is never going to be your friend. We need to treat him with extreme caution. The meeting is over. President trump and Vladimir Putin held that first meeting today eight months of course after an election that the u. S. Government determined was targeted by russia. And this is the easy part, the talking part. Any president would be expected to lay down a rhetorical marker in the first meeting with an adversary after attempts to interfere with our democracy. And a president who ran on putting America First, a logical application of that slogan obviously requires putting america before russia. But the Trump Administration instead offered a very mixed message, suggesting that donald trump talked to putin about russian interference, but that
and its too important to not find a way to move forward. Too important to not find a way to move forward. Notice that tillerson is treating his ideological conclusion as some kind of universal preference as if everyone thinks russia is such an important partner that its attacks on the United States must be just swallowed. Of course most american leaders have not taken that kind of approach as a given, from President Reagan to president obama, most leaders have not rejected american intelligence and called its conclusions into suggestion just to smooth over relations with this adversary. Mr. Secretary, can you say if the president was unequivocal in his view that russia did interfere in the election . Did he offer to produce any evidence or to convince mr. Putin . The russians have asked for proof and evidence. Ill leave that to the Intelligence Community to address. The answer to that question. And, again, i think the president at this point, he pressed him and then, you know, felt like at this point lets talk about how do we go forward. Thats weird. Tillerson is literally saying the u. S. Intelligence community should answer the russians questions about evidence like our spies are answerable to the people they spy on, and they should provide evidence to the opponents theyre accusing of these attacks. Why would you want to give the russians any clues about how the Intel Community knows what it knows . In court, sure. American citizens have a right to see the evidence against them. This isnt a court. The russians arent honoring our rules. Theyre breaking them. And if this is if this is any road to cyber war, something dick cheney himself suggested, well, you dont publicly tell your own intelligence officials, who of course risk their lives in these kind of wars, to brief the potential enemy. As for tillersons key word
tonight, question, the government he serves already has the answer. Russia meddled in the election. The last administration announced it and acted on it. Congress, in a bipartisan manner, has acted on it. And trump apparently brought it up today while also sowing more doubt about it. Illogical, that position. But perhaps predictable. Shes saying russia, russia, russia, but i dont maybe it was. I mean it could be russia, but it could also be china. It could also be lots of other people. It also could be somebody sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds, okay . She doesnt know if its the russians doing the hacking. Maybe there is no hacking. Once they hack, if you dont catch them in the act, youre not going to catch them. They have no idea if its russia or china or somebody. It could be somebody sitting in a bed someplace. Joining me now is David Filipov from hamburg, germany, michael mcfaul, and julianne smith, former National Security
when he read it out. He didnt say President Trump said i was concerned. Are we overreading that . Ive seen that observation because its noticeable, but is it a problem . You know, i worked at the white house for three years. I was in these meetings with both Prime Minister putin at the time and president medvedev. I never remember a kind of construction like that. I never remember a construction where it said it was noted, right, past tense. It was noted that the senate was concerned about this. Why isnt President Trump concerned about this . Right. I just think by answering it that way, this idea that were just going to move along after our sovereignty has been violated, thats not in the american interest. That is a weak response to what putin did last year. Julianne, what did putin get out of this, and why was the meeting so long . Well, i think he wanted to get a smile. He wanted to extend the meeting so that theyd come out afterwards. There would be a lot of questions about what was discussed. There would be some confusion over whos reporting what. He wanted this to look like a Fireside Chat with some old friends. He needs that photo opportunity. He wanted to show that he could basically play President Trump, and i think he did just that. I think trump came in unprepared. I dont think he was well briefed. I dont think his team readied him for this meeting, and i think the end result is that putin got just about everything he wanted from that meeting, including a very, very light touch on russian meddling in our election last fall. And thats a shame because this issue is not going to go away, or this tactic on the part of the russians. Theyre going to do this again. They did it in france most recently. They will likely do it in germany this fall. And i would assume that theyre going to do it in 2018 and 2020 in the United States again. David, you know the old saying, dont know much about history. Rex tillerson bringing up the
chemistry between these two men for whatever reason. Take a listen. The two leaders, i would say, connected very quickly. There was a very clear positive chemistry between the two. I think, again and i think the positive thing i observed, and ive had many, many meetings with President Putin before is there was not a lot of relitigating of the past. David, would you consider it relitigating something that the two men have never discussed before . Thats what we call a leading question, but i dont know how else to ask it. Well, i mean obviously the point of all this was to put all this behind everybody and have a nice picture moving forward, right . So the American People see this picture of, you know, President Trump behaving in a dignified way with President Putin. Now were all going to move forward and not think about this stuff anymore. This whole calculation is great
for russia and maybe great for people in the rest of the world. Americans who are really interested, like my two colleagues here on this panel, didnt get any answers. We didnt get any answers whatsoever. Is putin going to have to answer for what he did . Does President Trump really believe that this Election Hacking happened . But for the people who dont care, they got a great picture of them kind of like wrapping it up. Okay, that was too bad about that. Lets move on. I mean i guess, i mean, ambassador, yeah, some people dont care by definition. Then i guess well, they should care. They might not see the photo in the first place. But last time i checked, the American Public does have issues with russia. I suppose some of the partisan lines of this are changing if putin is a standin for the republican party, but that shift
hasnt completely occurred. And this would be odd ball in the extreme to suggest its a win for a u. S. President to back off an adversary. And lets be clear about when secretary tillerson is saying the two leaders said, we should just move on and forget about the history, forget about the agenda, what is that agenda . That agenda is created by Vladimir Putin. Hes the one that intervened in our elections. We didnt do that. He did that to us. Hes the one that annexed territory in ukraine. He created that as an agenda item. We didnt do that. Hes the one that doubled down and tripled down in his support for assad in syria. Half a Million People have died there. That agenda is created by him. So surprise, surprise, he wants to move on. That is not smart diplomacy. Diplomacy is not a popularity contest. Right. Diplomacy is about defending Americas National interest and defending international interest. Thou shall not interfere in elections in other countries. Thou shall not annex the territory of thy neighbor. We cant forget about those
events. We have to make sure they dont happen again. Julianne, the Russian Foreign minister basically stakes out this dramatic ground. This was headline breaking this afternoon with some pushback as weve noted but saying, oh, yeah, and trump took putin at his word. Take a listen. Translator President Trump has said that he has heard clear declarations from mr. Putin that russian leadership and russian government has not interfered in the elections, and he accepts the things that mr. Putin has said. Whats going on there . Well, this doesnt surprise me at all that we have two conflicting versions of the meeting, and thats why the u. S. Team, everyone should have agreed to bring in more staff, note takers. I know mike mcfaul when he was part of the administration as ambassador or as senior director for russia, he himself would be
in a meeting like that to provide a readout to the press afterwards. We now only have the four principals that were in this meeting with two translators. The two translators are obviously not going to share their notes. So were left with a question. Whos telling the truth . Do we believe the u. S. Administration, President Trumps version of the story, or President Putins version of the story . And neither one of these guys are known to be honest abe. Right. They both have trouble with the truth obviously. Honest vladimir. A Subsidiary Question are what are the Foreign Policy feeling that they can lie about the word of the president of the United States, apparently unconcerned about any reaction, which again if youre for America First and being tough, i would assume one of the benefits of being tough is countries dont get away with lying about what you said moments after you said it. David, going back to you, this is how the New York Times put
it, that they were trying to prevent exactly this kind of thing. I guess maybe it didnt work. Quote, the russians had agitated to include more staff in the meeting. Trumps team had insisted the meeting be small, avoid leaking and competing accounts later. And that was someone speaking on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity, but we have competing accounts, month . Yeah, we obviously were thinking all day about what was going on there. You know, ivanov also threw out american reporters from that briefing like myself even though the thing was broadcast live on russian channels. You know, theres an attempt in Vladimir Putins presidency to whitewash the past, to make things a lot smoother, to present a view of the world that, hey, russia is just a country thats trying to get along. Were not really trying to interfere in anybodys elections. And these Press Conferences really played toward that. Why President Trump needs that is something that is harder to
understand. But what the russians were trying to do was push this whole thing forward. That statement by ivanov, basically saying we confirm there was no hacking and the u. S. President agrees with it. And well be asking everybody we in washington, did President Trump really accept this . Did he really say that . It sounds Out Of This World that he would just go and put it away like that with the entire country interested in this investigation. Ambassador mcfaul, i have the final question for you. It may be the hardest to answer. Going forward, is the Trump Administration taking the position that russia either didnt meddle or it barely mattered, so its all good, or is there a view that to the extent they meddled, it was to help trump . So he doesnt really need to prevent it because it could help him again in the reelect. I dont know the answer to that obviously. I wasnt in the meeting. By the way, i used to negotiate who would be in those meetings, plus one, plus two, plus three. I had assumed that the russians kept the americans out. If this reporting by the New York Times is true, that raises serious doubts about the relationship that the National Security adviser, h. R. Mcmaster has, that the president doesnt even want his National Security adviser in the room for fear of leaks. Thats a big problem. Right, because he wouldnt be leaking if its working. Theres only three people. I mean that to me is very disturbing. I hope we learn more about that. To your question, i dont know the answer with respect to how President Trumps thinking. But i do know the answer with respect to how russia is going to behave. It is naive beyond imagination to assume that the russians or the chinese or somebody in the future is going to only hack is going to only interfere in our elections on the side of the republican party. Right. That is crazy. So rather than debate about, you
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introducing Xfinity Mobile. A new kind of network designed to save you money. The president opened the meeting with President Putin by raising the concerns of the American People regarding russian interference in the 2016 election. Just a day before donald trump, according to Rex Tillerson, was prettying Vladimir Putin on the russian interference in the election, he was publicly the u. S. Intel agencies, who of course as we all know concluded unanimously that russia did in fact interfere. I agree. I think it was russia, but i think it was probably other people and or countries, and i see nothing wrong with that statement. Nobody really knows. I remember when i was sitting back listening about iraq. Weapons of mass destruction. How everybody was 100 sure that iraq had weapons of mass
destruction. Guess what. That led to one big mess. They were wrong, and it led to a mess. That kind of set of comments may be habitual for trump, but it doesnt make it normal. Sally yates, a doj career prosecutor who was Acting Attorney General at the start of the Trump Administration before she left over a travel ban debate, wrote this impassioned response. The president s inexplicable refusal to confirm Russian Election interference insults career intel pros and hinders our ability to prevent it in the future. Joining me now for more is evan mcmullin, a former cia operative, cofounder of stand up republic. Im also joined by david corn, the Washington Bureau chief for mother jones and, apparently, david, a founder of nothing. Its on my bucket list. Well, get on in. Then again evan is a patriotic and physically courageous man which i always admire because its not something i ever knew how to do. David, youve covered this russia story a lot. Talk to us about when you see that kind of response from someone like sally yates. Well, i think shes reflecting what many people are thinking inside and outside of the Intelligence Community. The president also, in recent days said it was only four Intelligence Agencies that came up with this conclusion. It was really the ones that count, the nsa, the cia, the fbi, and joined by the office of the director of national intelligence, which oversees the whole community. So whenever he gets a chance, and you saw this in the readout with Rex Tillerson today. They diminish and dismiss the significance and the importance of this. He says hes honored to meet putin, the guy who attacked this country. He was talking this morning in a tweet about john podesta not giving dnc servers to the cia. All that is wrong. It has nothing to do with this. Isnt this part of the
problem. So then folks are trying to clean it up. So were talking about 17 agencies versus four, and you get the feeling that this is a person who is a master of pettifogging, a master of parsing. How do you think the factual community should deal with that . Thats why youve got to stick to The Big Picture in terms of facts. Its quite clear that trump, from the very beginning, throughout the summer and since then, hes aided and abetted putins campaign by denying or diminishing it or saying it didnt happen at all. Again and again and again. And i think so we can make fun and say why is he doing this, but theres a reason why. And you have to keep presenting that bigger context. I think its kind of disgraceful that even today he was not defending Americas National interest when it comes to sitting down with putin and also joking with the guy about the media. And this is a guy who leads a regime where journalists are killed. You know, its easy to go on and
on and be outraged about this, but sometimes outrage is factual. Thats right. Look, i think what we saw in this European Visit or what weve seen so far was what you would expect to see based on trumps signaling during the campaign, that he was going to align with Vladimir Putin. That speech in warsaw was full of ethno nationalism language, talking about our culture, our civilization, not about democracy, not about liberty and equality, but it really is a term to describe ethnicity and describing a battle of civilizations between what we have in the west and other cultures, namely, i think, islam. So then he goes and he meets with Vladimir Putin, and all of a sudden the hacking isnt an issue. All of a sudden, were making a commitment not to interfere in
which protects him in the house still strong, still doubting what theyre hearing from the Intelligence Community. As long as he can do that, then hes protected politically. This is now a political game, and thats what i think hes doing. David, listen to james clapper, of course, who used to be the head of dni, the agency you were mentioning here, talk about this and morale. It certainly isnt moralebuilding, ill put it that way. I do think, though, that the Intelligence Community will continue to convey truth to power even if the power ignores the truth. And thats one of the great strengths of the Intelligence Community and the superb men and women who are in it. David, it may be a great strength of the Intel Community, but it is a little more depressing than the optimism hes trying to find because the main client of the Intel Community is the president. Its a sad statement. Evan can probably speak to this better than you or i could. But people who work for the cia, case officers, often have to take tremendous risks, and they have to put their agents often in harm a way. Now, if they all think that the guy at the top doesnt care about them or think theres part of a deep state allied against him, are they still going to take those risks . Are people going to leave . Morale is important in the epa. Its important in the state department, every place else, but its very important for people who are taking those risks. Sure. Ultimately at the end of the day, a president can only make good decisions if he has good information and cares about that information. You know, trump is undercutting that whole premise, and that could lead us into even deeper and darker trouble. Evan, you get the last word of this segment, and also is any of this going to potentially change based on the results of bob muellers investigation . Look, i would say this. What david corn just said is correct, but i think the issue
Mitch Mcconnell and the Trump White House have a special plan for a blitz. Our panel will explain next. Noo introducing the easiest way to get gillette blades text blades to gillette on demand text to reorder blades with gillette on demand. And get 3 off your first order we are live here on friday night, and sometimes the breaking news comes in on friday. As i can tell you im holding a Washington Post report out tonight that were discussing for the first time on air on season that the white house and Mitch Mcconnell are planning a whoooo. Youre searching for something. Like the perfect deal. On the perfect hotel. So wouldnt it be perfect if there was a single site where you could find the right hotel for you at the best price . There is. Because tripadvisor now compares prices from over 200 booking sites. To save you up to 30 . On the hotel you want. Trust this birds words. Tripadvisor. The latest reviews. The lowest prices. Fixodent plus adhesives. Theres a Denture Adhesive that holds strong until evening. Just one application gives you Superior Hold even at the end of the day fixodent. Strong more like natural teeth. Flourish Spray NoiseFlourish Spray NoiseFlourish Spray NoiseFlourish Spray Noise the joy of real cream in 15 calories per serving. Enough said. Reddiwip. Flourish Spray Noise share the joy. [brother] any last words . [boy] karma, danny. Karma [vo] progress is seizing the moment. Your summer moment awaits you, now that the summer of Audi Sales Event is here. Audi will cover your first months Lease Payment on select models during the summer of Audi Sales Event. The new idea, the new strategy according to the post tonight is a deadline before the august recess. And key players in the strategy, according to this new report in the post, are mike pence and ted cruz. Mitch mcconnell allegedly relying on them to shake up and try to get a consensus among republicans. The idea is that cruz can be a conservative firebrand and bring it all home. Congress returns on monday. That means, according to this report, there would be just 14 days to pass trumpcare before this new selfimposed deadline before the august recess. I should note the obvious that you may know even if you are watching politics here on a friday night, and we welcome it. Not everyone else is as focused on this in august. Im going to talk to my panel in a second about why that might be part of the strategy. Meanwhile, senators openly questioning whats in the senate bill. Senator jerry moran at a Listening Tour in kansas. We dont want to just go through the motions of some kind of legislation that we say is going to solve the problem when im not and others are not yet
convinced that what path were on is going to actually make a difference in the cost to you, your family, and your businesses. Now, why would a republican from that Deep Red State be potentially wobbling on the bill . Heres some of what Senator Moran is hearing. Americans dont work hard all their lives to have an American Dream and get somewhere just to say, oh, okay. Yeah, you can have all my taxpayer money, and im going to go over here and Curl Up And Die because you think i dont deserve health care. Joining me now, a washington columnist for the boston globe, and also joan walsh, National Affairs correspondent for the nation. Joan, andy card used to say, you Dont Roll Out a big product in august, or at least not a product youre excited about. Not something you really want to sell. You want to wait until the fall when youre excited about something. I remember that too. This is crazy. Also the idea of ted cruz as pitchman. I mean i know hes doing some weird ideological shapeshifting by suggesting that maybe they cut not cut but actually leave the taxes, some of the taxes in place. Hes trying to act like, you know, the firefighter on the scene, but hes widely despised by his colleagues. I mean al franken, you know, joked that i know what youre going to say. I know. You know, people hate him more than i do, and i hate him. So this is a very, very weird situation. Also people like jerry moran are home and hearing about why people are afraid of what theyre trying to do. Right. So i have no idea what theyre doing. They should have talked to andy card. Well, it has a patina of panic, but it may be a reflection that they think in the light of day, in the fall, you know, open season, the bill has no shot. So maybe august is the only shot. Now, indira, im going to put it to you straight here. I aint that old, but im old
enough to remember when if you got a bad cbo score on a piece of National Policy legislation, the response was to reform the underlying legislation to get a better cbo score. I mean people in both parties said, okay, we care about the numbers. If the thing is too expensive or has too many negative consequences, well fix it and go back to the cbo. Instead let me read, quote, the goal will now be to counter the nonpartisan cbo analysis of the legislation which shows 22 million fewer people would have insurance coverage, and to counter it to show from conservative groups and other republicans who say there are more benefits and less disruptions should the bill pass. Translation, they dont want to fix anything that the cbo found. They want to point to alternative sources that make the bill look ostensibly better. Well, alternative sources sounds an awful lot like alternative facts, ari. The problem here is that as you say, in the past the idea was to Fight Fire With fire. If the facts were that the cbo said this doesnt work, then you tried to find a way to fix it and make it work. This Trump Administration and also the Republican Leadership in the senate dont seem to want to try to fix it. They want to counter it and say, no, thats fake news. Thats not true. Lets just counter it with our own information. But what you said, i thought, was really interesting, that there was a tinge of panic or a patina of panic in the air, and they have ever good reason to be panicked, and why . An analysis that came out of m. I. T. , and these are people who understand math unlike most people in america, and i would say that includes most of us. They analyzed of all the polls of looking at attention to, you know, legislation over the last 30 years. This is the least popular piece of legislation in 30 years. Wow. You know, last month it was polling at 12 . I mean wow because its not like every other piece of legislation that an unpopular congress has ever talked about is also beloved. So thats really saying something. I did say patina of panic, and thats because i like alliteration. I have a simple mind and it helps me remember things. We are going to fit in a quick break. When we come back, Vladimir Putins controversial joke to donald trump. What if we pull Customer Insights from the data in real time . Wait, our data center and our clouds cant connect . Michael, can we get this data to. . Look at me. Look at me. Look at me. You used to be the yes guy. What happened to that guy . Legacy technology can handcuff any company. But yes is here. So, youre saying we can cut delivery time . Yeah. With help from hpe, we can finally work the way we want to. With the right mix of hybrid it, everything computes. Anticipated meeting between donald trump and Vladimir Putin, there was something caught on tape. It was a joke, and it was a joke about journalists. This was right after the official photo opp ended. News camera crews were just starting to break down. Thank you, everyone. These are the ones, lol. But its actually not that funny. When you think about the fact that of course both these men have tangled with the press. And while no prosecutor has ever accused donald trump of criminally violating the first amendment, he has of course been roundly criticized for everything from publicizing false stories to mocking an american journalists handicap, to allegedly threatening to impugn journalists who want call and apologize to him for their coverage. There is no moral equivalence between that kind of conduct and Vladimir Putins track record. Thats why it was shocking to see an american president laughing with putin, who
according to reports like this one in Business Insider has been accused of being involved in the deaths of more than two dozen journalists in his own country. Indira and joan are back with us. Joan, your thought watching that exchange between them. It was kind of horrifying. You know, putin is obviously trying to cozy up with trump. Trump is trying to cozy up with him. But the idea that these two really authoritarians are making common cause around, you know, the free press, the allegedly free press, is scary. And trump needed his backing. I mean trump is kind of like the odd ball at these global meetings now. Hes sort of an outcast because hes behaved so abominably. Putin showed up today like he was going to be the one that protects the odd kid from the bullies or other kids. Thats what it felt like when he was like, this is whats going on with the theyre bonding over something. Over that. Over something really kind of awful. Indira, joan calls trump the odd ball. Others said it sometimes looked like g19 plus one. Put this exchange about journalists in that context. Heres the larger context. The larger context is that since 1993, 60 journalists have been murdered in russia. So whether Vladimir Putin was directly involved with those murders or not, certainly the russian regime has shown no love for journalists or the free media. It jails them. It, you know, has certainly been responsible for the murder of many of them. It is a very serious problem to try to conduct any kind of independent journalism in russia. Its just not possible. And our president has cozied up not only to Vladimir Putin as an authoritarian leader who has no respect for the press, but also turkeys leader, erdogan,
egyptian leader sisi. Hes made very flattering remarks about the philippine leader, duterte. All of these men who are strongmen, who have cracked down on the free press at home, its appalling that these comments would be made in a country that is supposed to be setting an example. In warsaw, he also made comments that, you know, were attacking the free press. Were supposed to be out there as a beacon for the rest of the world, and it is disturbing that someone would make a joke on this. I want to say why would Vladimir Putin do this . Lets not forget he was the head of the kgb. He was the head of the state spy and security service. He knows very well how to do Personality Profiling to know how to appeal to someones weaknesses and strengths, and he knows this appeals to trumps ego. Trump is obsessed with the press. Appeal to him. Cozy up to him by saying Something Like this. And to undercut any potential future u. S. Statement about the treatment of journalists in the country, which would just dredge up that video which, to some
eyes, would be embarrassing. Thank you as always. I appreciate your insights tonight. Thank you, ari. While trump was abroad, the top ethics watchdog for the federal government resigned. Well tell you why next. Im going to break down his new msnbc exclusive interview. No, please, please, oh shrieks in terror Heavy Breathing and snorting no, no. The running of the bulldogs . Surprising. Whats not surprising . How much money aleia saved by switching to geico. Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. Nits softer than ever. New charmin ultra soft is softer than ever so its harder to resist. Okay, this is getting a little weird enjoy the go with charmin
youre searching for something. Like the perfect deal. On the perfect hotel. So wouldnt it be perfect if there was a single site where you could find the right hotel for you at the best price . There is. Because tripadvisor now compares prices from over 200 booking sites. To save you up to 30 . On the hotel you want. Trust this birds words. Tripadvisor. The latest reviews. The lowest prices. So find a venus smooth that contours to curves, the smoother the skin, the more comfortable you are in it. Flexes for comfort, and has a disposable made for you. Skin smoothing venus razors. The illegal. If there is an argument its probably not illegal were doing it. If its if the illegal were going to do it np thats a standard that can lead to you all sorts of terrible, dangerous, unethical behavior, if the only thing you care about is literally not become ago felon. In most Large Organizations and Government Agencies there are some lawyers. And they say whats legal. Then there are other people who decide whats good policy, whats fair, what is ethical. Now the man that you just heard paeg is walter schwab, the top dog among federal ethics bureaucrats. He resigned early before his term is up. Tonight he explained in detail to Msnbc Chris Hayes the reason. He says the Trump White House didnt care about ethics. Id say the Ethics Program has been a very serious disappointment in the white
house. Because its a Risk Management program its become clear they have a higher tolerance for risk than we do. For instance we have a lot more control over president ial nominees. They have to get our signoff before they can get a hearing and come into government. White house appointees are in government long before we get the Financial Disclosure reports and were almost doing a postmort emto see if there was a conflict of interest. Where with nominees we work to prevent them in advance. Adopting a higher level of risk is inconsistent with how we run the program. Because people have been asking me is there definitely a violation or can you definitively say there is no violation in well if were the Prevention Mechanism once that violation has happened weve already failed. And so its incumbent upon a direct of the Office Of Government Ethics or my staff as a whole to object before we reach that point because were supposed to be running around preventing that from happening. Now up next im going to speak with don fox process. He previously ran the same Ethics Office he will react from
the new statements from his colleague who resigned. woman vo is now a good time to refinance . man vo yes Mortgage Rates just plummeted. The time to refinance your home is right now. Get started at lendingtree dot com. The only place you can compare up to five real offers
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ds to let the Office Of Government Ethics so much as as see those. Agreements. When weve worked on the Financial Disclosure statement weve asked for information and its like pulling teeth. The departing head of the Office Of Government Ethics speaking ton. Im joined by don fox who was a former director in the same office good evening to you. Good evening, ari happy to be here. Your thoughts on this position taken here by mr. Schwab who left and says the Trump White House doesnt care about ethics. Its just so profoundly disappointing that this is where we find ourselves. I dont blame walt at all for the course he decided to take. And thinking that he can be more effective now on the outside. Because this is just unprecedented in the seven administrations during which the Office Of Government Ethics has existed to have this lack of cooperation and taking the program seriously. You know, we filed a foia and asked for moefl dealings with the Trump Officials he was more concerned about the
extraordinary assertion that many ethics regulations would be the inplikable he told them that was incorrect and that their Letter Site Nod legal basis its critical white house employees be held to the same standards as other Executive Branch employees. Was he right in the Trump Officials wrong about that . Walt is absolutely right. The whole discussion about what applies and doesnt apply as a technical matter is a lengthy one. But the fact of the matter is that no previous Chief Executive has ever acted as though all of the standards did not apply to him. Why do you think people already quite wealthy many of whom are advanced stage of their career seem so concerned about continuing to carry on business and make more money . I dont know if you listen to lilly wayne the rapper but he said too much money aint enough money. Is it simple greed or inexperience. For those of hughes spent our professional lives working for
the government, whether on active duty in the military or as a civil servant, frankly it really is hard to understand. Its also difficult to understand simply from the standpoint that Government Jobs and particularly senior jobs are very demanding. Its like what are you paying attention to, the private business or the peoples business. You put it well, especially when the folks have so much power at their disposal. Don fox thank you for joining here on friday night. Youre very well. Appreciate it. I am ari melber this is the last word. You can fine me on facebook. I post articles and soon ill be posting updates there about mynyly new msnbc shows which aires 6 00 p. M. Eastern. The 11th hour is next. Face to face President Trump goes there with Vladimir Putin. Face to face President Trump