Hearing . Also, the president went on his Favorite Network today and a fox news host tried harder than usual to challenge him. It didnt go over well. More on those stories later in the hour. But we begin tonight with the latest impeachment developments. In a new interview with the l. A. Times, House Intelligence Committee chairman adam schiff says that his committee has begun writing his report in the impeachment investigation against President Trump. And once the report is written, itll be handed off to the Judiciary Committee which will draft the actual articles of impeachment. But schiff hasnt ruled out hearing from more witnesses before he submits the report. Quote, were not foreclosing the possibility of additional depositions or hearings, but were also not willing to wait months and months and let them play ropeadope with us in the courts. Schiff said the committee will work both tracks on continuing to investigate while beginning to put our report together. Democrats seem to have learned all they need to from the impeachment hearings, but the same cannot be said for the president who continues to push the unsubstantiated claim that ukraine worked against him in the 2016 election. We should warn you what you are about to hear is not accurate. The fbi went in and they told him get out of here, were not giving it to you. They gave the server to crowd strike or whatever its called, which is a Company Owned by a very wealthy ukrainian. And i still want to see that server. You know, the fbi has never gotten that server. Thats a big part of this whole thing. Why did they give it to a Ukrainian Company . Are you sure they did that . Are you sure they gave it to ukraine . Well, thats what the word is. Thats not actually what the word is. I sort of feel for those guys on fox friends. Allow if you will to step back and fact check this. Quote, they gave the server to crowd strike or whatever its called. Wrong. Which is a Company Owned by a very wealthy ukrainian. Wrong. The fbi has never gotten that server. Wrong. Trump cant even seem to get his own Conspiracy Theory right. Trump went onto tell fox news, quote, ukraine hated me. They were after me in the election. They wanted Hillary Clinton to win. Lets be clear on this point, too. The Intelligence Community concluded that russia russia interfered in the 2016 election. All of this is to say that the president must not have been watching the impeachment hearings too closely this week because his comments came just a day after this woman, fiona hill, the former National SecurityCouncil Senior director for europe and russia chastised republicans for pushing this, quote, fictional narrative. Some of you on this committee appear to believe that russia and its Security Services did not conduct a campaign against our country and that perhaps somehow for some reason ukraine did. This is fictional narrative that has been perpetrated and propagated by the russian Security Services themselves. Fiona hill has no other dog in this fight. When she says its a fictional narrative, this comes from a lot of experience. Tonight the New York Times reports that fiona hills testimony aligned closely with recent Intelligence Briefings given to United States senators. Quote, american intelligence officials informed senators and their aides in recent weeks that russia had engaged in a yearslong campaign to essentially frame ukraine as responsible for moscows own hacking of the 2016 election, according to three american officials. The revelations demonstrate russias persistence in trying to sow discord among its adversaries and show that the kremlin apparently succeeded, as unfounded claims about ukrainian interference seeped into republican talking points, end quote. If that is not evidence enough that trump is pushing a Conspiracy Theory, try this. Vladimir putin himself says hes pleased that the, quote, political battles in washington have put on the back burner accusations that russia interfered in u. S. Elections. According to the Associated Press putin said this week, quote, thank god no one is accusing us of interfering in the u. S. Elections anymore. Now theyre accusing ukraine. Leading off our discussion tonight daily beast editor at large. Hes currently writing a book on Russian Military intelligence. David corn, an msnbc political analyst. He attended all three days of the impeachment hearings this week. Gentlemen, we had a fairly robust conversation before the show started on the idea that there are people, you might even call them reasonable people, educated people, smart people who continue to believe this bunk that fiona hill told congress, and she is as senior and learned as you get on this, its not true. It is a fiction. It is perpetrated by russia to have people believe that somehow ukraine, which is in a war with russia, in dispute with russia was the one involved in hacking the election or interfering in the u. S. Election. What more, michael, can you say to people who continue to believe this or perpetrate this . There are several different strands to this Conspiracy Theory. The most i hesitate to use the word legitimate, but the most kind of credible one the then Ukrainian Ambassador to the United States wrote an oped castigating donald trump for comments he made which are rather bizarre and also contradictory. Number one donald trump, then candidate trump said most crimeans want to be part of russia just legitimizing and also donald trump i believe in conversation with George Stephanopoulos if im president russia will never invade crimea even after they had done, so this was his way to get back at barack obama. Charlies oped i think published it was done publicly it is actually based on my own reporting some of the least incendiary red rihetoric used by diplomats by then candidate trump given some of the comments he made not just about ukraine but also about nato and i recall being in a european country and meeting with foreign minister of a nato member state in which donald trump came on the television and that foreign minister told me, if this candidate is elected, its the end of the west. So the point here is somebody criticized donald trump who was then a candidate which donald trump and others have then turned into the fact there was an attempt to interfere in the election. Yeah, and he did it openly. Thats the key thing. The russian attack as bob mueller characterized it was systematic and sweeping. It involved illegal activity, stealing emails, releasing them and taking over parts this was the oped. This was an oped. We have just now all three of us fallen into the trap. Were discussing it and were trying to explain whats there and isnt there and getting into details. When donald trump and i sat through this all week, jim jordan, devin nunes and the republicans on the panel and others, all they do is try to string together in a very word salad nefarious way terms and names. Steele, ukraine, meddling, opeds, tweets, money and they try to create an impression however, unfortunately its something you cant get away from because its in the mainstream now. Because the president himself is doing this. And they are just trying to create this alternative reality for people who dont want to believe the worst of donald trump, who want to believe in donald trump and they need Something Else to hang onto. And thats what theyre giving them. In the leadup to the brexit referendum in the u. K. , barack obama who was then visiting the u. K. Wrote an oped in the telegraph basically saying, guys, dont do this. Also ill advised as the american president to get involved in somebodys internal politics. However, is that the same thing as two different russian intelligence organizations conducting Cyber Espionage against a Political Party in a foreign country, then leaking the contents of their correspondence to a russian asset, in this case wikileaks, for the purposes of bolstering one candidate and diminishing the other. Is that also tantamount to running a sophisticated active measures campaign in the form of disinformation and propaganda using social media. Lets assume everything you two have just said, we take it at face value, these are different things. What this diplomat did is not the same as interference in a u. S. Election. I want to play why this is dangerous. You say wisely we fall into a trap when we discuss this. As journalists, sometimes we have to go down some of these roads. Yes. Heres where the real danger lies as articulated by fiona hill. Right now russias Security Services and their proxies have geared up to repeat their interference in the 2020 election. We are running out of time to stop them. In the course of this investigation i would ask you please not promote politically driven falsehoods that so clearly advance russian interests. Thats the rub. Therein lies the rub. As long as everybodys discussing this, Vladimir Putin has said this is fantastic. Oh, its great. And what it does is trump has never fully acknowledged that the russians attacked and that the russians attacked to help him and that the russian attack had an impact on the campaign. He cant live with that. Its a taint on his presidency. And because of that hes not been able to in the last three years as president to deal with the prospect of another russian attack. In fact, the Washington Post reported a few weeks ago that when he met i think in may of 2017 with two russian officials in the oval office he told them he was not concerned. And so what hes been trying to do for the last three years is to remove this stain, create alternative narratives. And what it does is leave the United States wide open to another attack because he cant accept the first one. And we go fast forward to the ukraine scandal which is all about what . Again, trying to do something to rig the 2020 election in his favor. So the gear we should be on here, the other line of defense republicans are using is that nobody who testified was really in the room or on the call. Which is not true because there were people there and fact witnesses and people like fiona hill who have context and are fact witnesses. But the bottom line is the people who could probably tell us the most about this did not appear to testify. Adam schiff tells Los Angeles Times that weve made it abundantly clear to the president that their failure to permit witnesses to testify and failure to respond to any of our subpoenas has only built the case against them for obstruction of congress. The fact is mulvaney, giuliani, bolton, these people can tell you whether the president told them to do something. The president and others have made it clear hes willing to throw them under the bus. So we dont know what theyre going to do. Gordon sondland responded to being thrown under the bus or threatened by throwing somebody else back. The other side of this this is assuming mr. Giuliani and mr. Bolton would tell the truth in the case of mr. Giuliani however, the idea this is democratic coup or witch hunt this is the most preposterous statement of them all. The call is coming from inside the house as they say in horror films. The people going to impeach this president are republicans. Gordon sondland, not exactly anybodys idea of the diplomats diplomat, a partisan hack, if i may. Somebody who gave a lot of money to the rnc and trump campaign. Got a position he probably didnt deserve. Comes before congress and says there was a quid pro quo. Hes a republican operative. Kurt volker, arguably tried to finesse and manage a very difficult situation. Didnt exactly cover himself in glory, has also delivered a verdict that, yes, there was something very dodgey going on here. John bolton in a record to the press i dont want any part of this drug deal. John bolton, nobodys idea of a progressive liberal democratic operative. Republicans are the ones coming forward and basically providing the noose of which this president is going to hang himself. The Devin Nunes Jim jordan line this whole thing is political conspiracy, its nonsense. Its nonsense on stilts. Ive known fiona hill for several years. Ive followed her work for a very long time. This is one of the most professional scholarly russia analysts there is. By the way, shes described often in the u. S. News cycle as a kremlin hawk. Not exactly. Very nuanced in her appraisal. Her biography, which is one of the more insightful biographies of Vladimir Putin, very cleverly its almost a postmodern analysis. She takes different archetypes of who putin and is studies them. She takes them in isolation and then creates a composite. Not just the kgb case officer but the capitalists and statist and so on. This is not someone who gets ahead of her skis with allegations. Unfortunately were out of time for this discussion but i love having it with you both. Thank you both for being with us. Coming up, lev and igor have made it into the impeachment investigation, and now levs lawyer says lev has evidence relevant to the investigation about devin nunes, the minority chairman of the House Intelligence Committee. That is next. 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Another of parnas lawyer ed mcmahn told the daily beast this week that parnas, quote, helped arrange meetings and calls in europe for representative devin nunes in 2018. Nunes aide harvey participated in the meetings which were arranged to help nunes investigative work. Mcmahn didnt testify what those investigations entailed, end quote. Betsy Woodruff Swan is still working on the story. Shes an editor for the daily beast and an msnbc contributor. Also barbara mcquaid, former u. S. Attorney for the Eastern District of michigan and an msnbc legal contributor. Betsy, what is this new information about lev parnas . I can tell you that i spoke with bondy, the lawyer you referred to earlier this evening. He told me two things that are new for me to have confirmed. The first thing that he said was that an aide to congressman nunes told Lev Parnas Nunes and team were investigated the biden family and an Energy Company called burisma where joe bidens son hunter biden was a board member. Those topics were of paramount importance to trump and giuliani. Trump and giuliani pressured the Ukrainian Government to investigate those specific topics in hopes that an investigation would benefit trump. And the second thing he told me is that a former ukrainian prosecutor named victor shulkin, an important character, told lev parnas he had a meeting with congressman nunes in vienna. Victor shulkin is a vital character in this story. He was a prosecutor in ukraine, widely accused of corruption who biden and other western leaders basically pushed out. Biden and other european leaders told the Ukrainian Government they wouldnt get a Financial Aid package unless shulkin was ousted. Shulkin now has claimed that the reason he was ousted was because he was scrutinizing burisma and biden forced him out as part of a quid pro quo. The evidence belies those allegations, but that allegation is something that President Trump appears to have bought hook, line and sinker. And it was part of what he was pressuring the Zelensky Administration to announce that they were scrutinizing back on that july 25th phone call. Barbara, as you know we study these things as journalists and people like betsey report on them. But the little we know about the law leads one to think that devin nunes was front and center in all these hearings. He was in the socalled secret hearings, the behind closed door hearings that republicans accused democrats of not letting republicans into even though devin nunes was in all of them. Eric swalwell, who is on the intelligence committee, entered betsys reporting about devin nunes into the record and said this. Mr. Chairman, youve been falsely accused throughout these proceedings by the Ranking Member as being quoteunquote a fact witness. Now if this story is correct the Ranking Member may have actually been projecting. And in fact he may be the fact witness if hes working with indicted individuals around our investigation. Now, barbara, weve had this conversation about a few people over the last several months including the attorney general bill barr. If devin nunes went to ukraine and is mixed up in this conversation one way or the other. Even if he was simply investigating by Holding Meetings with people who were sort of principles in this discussion, how does that play into the fact he is the Ranking Member, the lead republican involved in these impeachment hearings . You know, theres a lot of layers to unpack here. At one level its just as a fact finder whos supposed to be in kind of a position of serving as a check and balance on the executive branch, if he himself is involved in investigating on his own, freelancing, it seems hes got a recusal situation or conflict of interest. I dont know how the rules work there but it seems like hes intertwining a bit of his own involvement along with his role in oversight. So that seems a little strange. It also could be the case and that depends on the facts if he is involved directly in obtaining a thing of value in connection with an election. He himself could be committing crimes, Campaign Finance violations if hes assisting President Trump in getting dirt on joe biden knowing that theres no merit to the information in these investigations. So problematic at a couple of levels there. Betsey, from your reporting you say congressional records show nunes traveled to europe from november 30th to december 3rd, 2018. Three of his aides traveled with him. U. S. Government funds paid for the group os trip which cost or 63,000. You got this from public records. I dont know i heard devin nunes speak about this or speak openly. It feels like it would have been relevant to bring up in the proceedings. That said, youre getting information from the lawyer of lev parnas, a guy whos been charged with election offenses. How do we feel about the information that youre getting from the lawyer of lev parnas or the information that originates with lev parnas . Look, people are at their most credible when theyre speaking under oath. I have no reason to believe that the information that bondy has told me on the record is incorrect. But it goes without saying without question at the statements bondy has made would carry significantly more weight were parnas to say them on the record and under oath to congress. So a big question thats open right now is whether parnas will end up going before congress, taking an oath and sharing what parnas lawyer has shared with me. Now, for parnas to do Something Like that, it would be incredibly risky in part, of course, because hes been indicted in the Southern District of new york. So one possible avenue that his lawyers could potentially pursue and which lawyers sometimes pursue when they have a client who both faces criminal exposure before the Justice Department but also has information thats interesting to congress, one avenue they could look at is trying to get a specific type of immunity from congress where parnas would make a deal with capitol hill that he wouldnt face criminal liability for the particular matters that he discussed before the House Intelligence Committee. Now, its unclear to me whether such a deal will be cut, whether the House Intelligence Committee would think it was important enough to them to bring in parnas to make that kind of agreement. But those agreements have been made in the past, and its clear that parnas at the very least had significant visibility, and to many of the topics that are at the heart of the impeachment inquiry. So barbara, put your prosecutor hat on now. If such a deal needed to be made im sure congress could make it if they thought it was important to have lev parnas there. Is there some danger, given what youve heard in the last week, given the testimony of some remarkably incredible people, fiona hill and the like and we know that millions and millions of americans were glued to that testimony this week, is there some risk at getting parnas involved in this . It may be what he has to say is true and what the reporting is true, but a couple of problems with it. One is if congress or the Southern District of new york were interested in this information, his lawyer wouldnt need to be tweeting about this and having public discussions about it. It seems theyre having some public pressure to get them to bite on this information, and it seems theyre reluctant to bite either because they believe it not to be credible or it may be they just dont want to go down this road not at this moment. Maybe focus on devin nunes at this moment is distraction. The testimony has been very focused. Weve heard two weeks of very compelling witness testimony, and to now go down another rabbit hole talking about devin nunes is maybe too far a field from the relevant impeachment inquiry focusing on the conduct of President Trump. So it may be they dont want to go down that road. It gets complicated when you offer immunity to a witness to testify before congress because it could preclude charges against him later by the Southern District of new york. And they may want to continue to keep the heat on him to use that as leverage to get information about Rudy Giuliani, President Trump or others. And so there may be some very good reasons that theyre reluctant to deal with him. Its a complicated issue, did need a little unpacking. Betsey swan and barbara mcquade, thanks to both of you. Coming up, john bolton is back on twitter teasing a back story that democrats say he needs to tell in the deposition room. Thats next. Wayfairs biggest black friday blowout ever is now on. Yes score unbelievable savings. Like living room up to 70 off. Storage solutions from 9. 99. And area rugs up to 80 off. Plus, tons of limitedtime mystery flash deals. And Free Shipping on everything when you shop from thanksgiving through cyber monday. And were just getting warmed up. Our black friday blowout is happening now through december first. Shop the event of the season, only at wayfair. Com. I am totally blind. And non24 can make me show up too early. Or too late. Or make me feel like im not really there. Talk to your doctor, and call 8442342424. When you take align, you have the support of a probiotic and the gastroenterologists who developed it. Align naturally helps to soothe your occasional digestive upsets, 24 7. So, where you go, the pro goes. Go with align, the pros in digestive health. May your holidays glow bright and all your dreams take flight. Lease the c 300 sedan for just 399 a month at the mercedesbenz winter event. Hurry in today. Former National Security advisor john bolton has returned to twitter after a twomonth absence. Bolton claims that the white house is responsible for blocking his access to twitter. Tweeting, quote, since resigning as National Security advisor the white house refused to return access to my personal twitter account. Out of fear of what i might say to those who speculated that i went into hiding, im sorry to disappoint. In an interview with fox friends President Trump denied that the white house blocked bolton in any way from twitter. John bolton has just gotten back on twitter. His account for frozen for two months. Did you guys freeze his account . No, of course not. Of course not. No, i actually had a Good Relationship with john. John boltons return to twitter left many calling for him to do the right thing and testify before congress in the impeachment inquiry. Bolton did not show up to his scheduled deposition with the impeachment investigators earlier this month despite being a key witness with trumps interactions with ukraine. Joining me to make more sense of this jennifer ruben, and tim miller, the former Communications Director for jeb bushs 2016 president ial campaign and spokesman for the Republican National committee. Hes now a contributor to the bull work. Thank you for being here. Jennifer, john bolton is doctrinaire in his conservative thinking. It was puzzling to some people that he got himself mixed up with donald trump, but it suited him because hes got some hawkish views on a few things donald trump was willing to indulge. At this point it doesnt seem he has any particular loyalty to donald trump. And he seems to be signaling to everyone that hes got something to say. What do you make of this . First of all, the most interesting thing about that is he repeated one of his disputes with donald trump and that is that he resigned. When he resigned trump claimed to have fired him. And that reminds us that he has no love lost for donald trump. Its interesting he put that in there. Listen, i think john bolton has a book, and he apparently has a book deal. Hes giving speeches to Investment Banking groups and making a lot of money. So he is making money off of his story. And if he comes and tells that story for free under oath to congress, its not worth that much. So i hate to say it but i think part of this is greed. Part of this is financial greed. The notion that he has to get permission from a court is nonsense. Fiona hill didnt get permission. Gordon sondland didnt get permission, and all of these people knew any order from the white house not to testify was based on a bogus absolute immunity defense. And they came up and did their patriotic duty. So why is john bolton hiding behind fiona hills skirts . Well, part of it is money and he lives within this right wing echo sphere. These are his supporters and they donate to his super pac. Hes trying to be very cute and stay in the public eye, but at the same time hes not doing his patriotic duty. Hes not helping to get to the bottom of this. So in that case hes really enabling donald trump and indirectly Vladimir Putin. His lawyer seems to be helping him as well. John boltons lawyer in on november 8th said bolton was personally involved in many of the events, meetings and conversations in which youve already received testimony im sorry, as well as many relevant meetings and conversations that have not yet been discussed in the testimonies thus far. So i sort of get the fact hes trying to make money out of the whole thing, but he does seem to be constantly baiting somebody into saying you need to talk to me. Do you think theres Material Information that he has because mulvaney, bolton and giuliani actually know what happened. Of course theres Material Information that he has. I think hes got some really good book agents doing a great job teasing his book, and he definitely has Material Information on ukraine. But i want to put a finer point on something jennifer mentioned it was reported by you guys here at msnbc, at one of those investment banks, paid speeches, closed door meeting, he implied something that would be one of the five biggest scandals in american history. I implied the president allowed our kurdish allies to get slaughtered because of personal and business interests that he has. He made that as a throw away line in a private speech. Look, i think if this was somebody acting in good faith, this was somebody who wanted to participate with the process and he had information that led him to believe that the president was making life or death decisions based on his financial interests something literally unprecedented in modern american history, he would have gone to congress. He would have gone to an investigative reporter. There ways to get your information out. Its not at a private dinner with investment bankers. I thought that anecdote just showed where his motivation really is. And lastly and briefly he wants a future in this party. He understands if he does a full face turn on donald trump thats not there. Unlike some of the other people who i think are leaving the administration, b administration, bolton knows where his bread is buttered. Thats interesting because john bolton has been a conservative for a very, very long time. He could have a future in a party that doesnt involve donald trump. One day if republicans as you often think about, you know, fantasize about if republicans can take a party back that doesnt involve donald trump, a guy like john bolton can have a role in it. Hes not a dumb guy. He can be a bit dug in, but he knows his stuff. Whats the cost of john bolton doing this because hes got real information that was testified to by fiona hill and others where he called it a drug deal. He said that this thing that giuliani and donald trump were doing was a drug deal, meaning he knew something was wrong. I dont think he literally thought they were dealing drugs. Hes now the guy who can decide the outcome of this. I think hes betting that in the shortterm he avoids any blame, any attacks from the president. And if this all washes out, if donald trump gets either impeached and removed or he gets voted out, no one will hold john bolton responsible for having been quiet during this. So hes hoping this all washes through, and there he is standing proud and firm without dirt on his hands regarding ukraine. And hes there to pick up the pieces. I think the problem with that is two fold. One is he will be blamed for this. He was in an administration that was doing putins dirty work. And the notion that he had no idea what was going on and could not stop it i think is preposterous. So i think for his own good he needs to clear the record and cleanup the record. What did he know about Donald Trumps obsession with putin . What steps did he take to dissuade the president from going down this rabbit hole of conspiracy theories . So i think for his own credibility he needs to step away and say this is what i was doing. I was being the good soldier, i was stopping this. He hasnt done that and i think hes at risk. Jennifer and tim, hold on as were going to be right back. Great presentation, tim. 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Almost all the fortune 500 partner with us. woman when it comes to digital transformation. Verizon keeps business ready. We have breaking news. Moments ago the state Department Released nearly 100 pages of records in response to american oversights lawsuit seeking a range of documents related to the trump administrations dealings with ukraine. You might have heard rachel talking about this on her show. Those documents have just been released, and joining us now by phone is austin evers, the executive director of Watchdog Group american oversight. Thank you for joining me. Im just looking at your press release about these documents. Youre saying that among the records they include emails that confirm multiple contacts in march of this year between secretary of sTate Mike Pompeo and Rudy Giuliani, at least one of which was facilitated by the president s assistant madeleine. Tell me what youre learning . I imagine you just received these documents so you havent had a chance to go fully through them. We are still reviewing them. We wanted to get them out to the public as quickly as possible because transparency is so important for these issues. And you have them up for download. We did. Theyre available on our website, americanoversight. Org. But you summarized it well. The documents show a clear paper trail connecting not just Rudy Giuliani to mike pompeo but being connected by the oval office. President trumps personal assistant madeleine westerhouse serving as a conduit when Rudy Giuliani cant get through to pompeo through, quote, regular channels. The president s personal assistant makes that connection happen. Based on the timing which is around march of this year it looks apparent this was a connection to ensure that Rudy Giulianis Smear Campaign against a sitting u. S. Ambassador made it to mike pompeos desk. This is just the first set of disclosures american over sights litigation is going to expose. So a major message i want people to understand is that while the administration has refused to turn these documents over to congress, the stone wall is cracking and were going to get regular documents. These are documents that the congressional investigation has been asking the state department to produce . Theyve asked mike pompeo to do this. The state department has refused to hand over this information. You then sued under a freedom of information application. Thats correct. If you look at these documents you can understand why mike pompeo wouldnt Want Congress to have them and why congress has been complaining for the last two weeks that they havent received i believe the quote is, a single scrap of paper from mike pompeo. Here it is are basically his call sheets showing multiple phone conversations with Rudy Giuliani at what looks to be the beginning of this scheme to smear the ambassador. We have other lawsuits already pending and soon more to come that are going to focus on different aspects of this scandal from the omb withholding aid to contacts later in time with mike pompeo and other senior officials. So, again, these are just the first disclosures, and for our first round to connect this scandal directly to the oval office is pretty significant. When you say the first round of disclosures, have you got active other applications, freedom of information applications in right now . We do. I dont want to give you an exact count but its in the dozens of open foia requests. Ill tell you what weve been doing. Weve listened to all the testimony and read all these deposition transcripts and if a witness describes a document and Congress Says it doesnt have access, well the freedom of information act means we can get it. We can sue for it, and were going to force it out in the open. And if it takes past the Senate Impeachment trial to get all the evidence out, were going to keep fighting for it. Let me ask you this, though, the state department has some reasoning, the executive branch offers reasoning why they wont provide this to congress. For guys like me you think, wow, they must have thought this through. Someone must have explained to somebody why they cant release it. You are under obviously under freedom of information getting someone to disclose this. I want to read from your press release where you say american oversight could obtain these documents establishes that there is no legal basis for the administration to withhold them from congress. Thats a simple statement, but its kind of remarkable. If you can get them why cant our elected officials get these documents . The reason is obstruction. The only reason that a document that a citizen like me and the members of my team can get cant go to adam schiff or even devin nunes is because of obstruction. And it shows the power of the courts again coming in to tell the president and his allies that they have to follow the law even if they dont want to turn things over to congress. So, i mean, i dont know what to say about whether the state department and the administration should have anticipated this. They probably should have looked at the article of impeachment against former president clinton and president nixon. They include obstruction charges. And i think the white house should ask itself, should it be pursuing a total obstruction strategy if that obstruction of justice is not even going to be effective . And to be clear american oversight has no special standing. You are as you just described yourself, a citizen. You are a group of people pretty good litigators but otherwise thats true. You are doing this as an american citizen, as a group of american citizens asking for this information. You dont have unique standing why you should get this versus anybody else . That is correct. And now we have extracted these documents it means they belong to the American Public. They are public records. Anyone can read them, and they belong to you. When you filed this you receive the documents from the Office Manager to the secretary of state thats actually one of the emails you got. Where do you get these . Who says its okay . When you file the application who adjudicates that you are entitled to these documents . When it works well, apolitical career Civil Servants collect documents and apply the law to determine what can be made public. Is it classified, it is a privilege . And they apply redactions and they release them. And for the last two weeks weve seen dedicated Civil Servants defy orders not to testify to go and talk to congress. There are also unnamed heroes in agencies across the government who are going to apply to law and ensure the freedom of information act is not thwarted by this white houses efforts to obstruct. Frankly american oversight but the American Public writ large owes them for the work they do on this and many other issues. That is kind of incredible. I think we need to completely illustrate what were talking about here. Documents members of congress, congressional committees asked the state department for that were not turned over, you made freedom of information applications for and you have received now the First Tranche of these documents that indicate a connection between secretary of Tate Mike Pompeo and Rudy Giuliani as it related to ukraine the involving the president s assistant madeleine its a major hole in their strategy and its finally coming to pay off. Austin, thank you for joining me. We look forward to looking through these documents and more that you get. Austin is the executive director of american oversight. Jennifer rubin and tim miller are standing by. Stay with us. R are standing by. Stay with us only imagine. A peaceful night sleep without frequent heartburn waking him up. Now that dream is a reality. Nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts for allday, allnight protection. Can you imagine 24 hours without heartburn . Good morning, mr. Sun. Good morning, blair. [ chuckles ] whoo. Im gonna grow big and strong. Yes, you are. Im gonna get this place all clean. Ill give you a hand. And im gonna put lisa on crutches wait, what . Said shes gonna need crutches. She fell pretty hard. You might want to clean that up, girl. Excuse us. When owning a Small Business gets real, progressive helps protect what you built with customizable coverage. And im gonna eh, eh, eh. Donny, no. Oh. honk i hear you sister. Thats why im partnering with cigna to remind you to go in for your annual checkup, and be open with your doctor about anything you feel physically and emotionally. But now cigna has a plan that can help everyone see stress differently. Just find a period of time to unwind. A location to destress. An activity to enjoy. Or the name of someone to talk to. To create a plan that works for you, visit cigna. Com mystressplan. Cigna. Together, all the way. Visit cigna. Com mystressplan. I am totally blind. And non24 can throw my days and nights out of sync, keeping me from the things i love to do. Talk to your doctor, and call 8442142424. We have breaking news now. American oversight, a group has sued for freedom of information releases of documents that the state department has now turned over, more than 100 documents have just been turned over to american oversight. They can be found on americanoversight. Org. However, i just checked and that web site appears to be down, probably because so many people are trying to find these 100 documents, including emails that confirm contact in march of 2019 between the secretary of sTate Mike Pompeo and Donald Trumps lawyer Rudy Giuliani as it related to ukraine. One of those contacts was facilitated at least one, by the way, was facilitated by President Trumps assistant madeleine westerhout. It is on the web site so everybody in the world can download it and it appears that many people in the world are trying to download it right now. American oversight has release a statement saying we can see why mike pompeo has refused to release these to congress. It reveals a clear paper trail. If you were watching rachels show earlier tonight, they have turned the documents over now. American oversight saying they could obtain these documents establishes there is no legal basis for the administration to withhold them from congress. Jennifer reuben and tim miller are back with us. They were with me, we were in the middle of a discussion when this all happened. Jennifer, this feels like a fairly substantial development because the state department denied congressional requests, efforts and subpoenas to turn over these documents and a group of american citizens got it with the freedom of information application. Absolutely. And when my ears perked up was when he said they have dozens of these out there. So everybody subject matter we have been hearing about the last two weeks may turn over more documents. This just goes to show you that once you start peeling back the curtain, all sorts of things come out and congress is going to be very interested in all of this. I think theyre going to want to see all of these documents, theyre going to want to have hearings on some of these and they may lead to new witnesses whats so significant about this is remember what is going on in march. Rudy and his henchmen are trying to cook up all sorts of rumors to get rid of our anticorruption fighting ambassador, maria yovanovitch, in ukraine. Mike pompeo is doing nothing to prevent that. Mike pompeo refuses to put out a statement in support of that. Of his ambassador. Maria yovanovitch works for the state department and hes the boss of the state department and he wont protect his people. So is he facilitating . Is he helping Rudy Giuliani or is he objecting to it . He certainly knows its going on. Remember, that was the step, that was the predicate for then launching on this effort to essentially extort ukraine in addition to whatever other financial deals that Rudy Giuliani was pursuing. They had to get her out of the way. This puts him right in the middle of this. I think he has extreme liability. And remember, he has not even recused himself from deciding whether to turn over these documents. It took a federal court to force him. So that is completely unacceptable. Hes behaving in a completely inappropriate manner. Hes a lawyer and he should know his legal obligations. I think this is huge. I think its huge, too. This gets lost in the back and forth and mud and muck. The biggest takeaway from the sondland testimony, none of this was a secret. They all knew it was happening, mulvaney did, the president did. The only reason the administration has not just fallen back on the original mulvaney press conference answer, which was get over it, is the president will just not allow it because of his ego. So we have to go through this b. S. , this misinformation where they try to pretend there might not have been a quid pro quo, maybe this want as bad as it looks. It is as bad as it looks. Eventually the more information that comes out, well continue to see more details of that and the question is does that actually turn anyone. That is a big question. That is a big question, but these are actually documents and to jennifers point, american oversight has said, quote, this is just the first round of disclosures. The evidence is only going to get worse for the administration as its stonewall strategy collapses in the face of court orders. This is one of what he said are dozens of applications, more than a dozen documents. Thats tonights last word. The 11 hours with Brian Williams begins now. Tonight just hours after our foremost russia expert calmly and soberly warned republicans not to promote a fake story being pushed out by russia, the president does exactly that on national television. Plus, john bolton, the man who knows plenty of trump secrets today hinting the white house wants to be silence him. Hes hinted he may have a lot to say but hes not talking yet. Today a former fed is urging bolton to take his cue from the heroic impeachment witnesses and woman up. And as impeachment seems to be on the move and eventually headed to the senate, increasing indications that mike pompeo already deeply involved in this ukraine story may be heading home to kansas to convince