Up . Right there. When we talk about the swamp, were referring to that mur cue aky and mysterious natu our politics. Were only seeing part of it. We dont know the full extent of what money was spent and we certainly dont know who spent it. During the 2018 midterms we saw firsthand how Campaign Spending records were shattered. With a total of 5. 7 billion spent. You can go through all of this and name every Single Person who works in that building and show how much money is spent on them by outside groups. It makes you wonder whose interests do they have in mind . The voters who put them into that office . It is time to put strict limits across the political spectrum, everyone says there is too much money in politics. Billionaires are buying elections. Ive got a lot of questions about where all that money came from and how it benefitted the people it was spent on. The obvious first step is to see if i can set up a meeting with any senators to talk to me about it. Jacob calling from msnbc. Sure. Soboroff. Its a pass . Hey, max, calling from nbc. Will he be willing to talk with us about that . Okay. Thanks, bye. What do you know . Its not that easy to get a member of the senate on the phone. As jacob tries to get at least one senator to meet with us, i want to dig deeper into a type of political funding where the original donors are almost impossible to trace. Its known as dark money. And there is one group whose name has become synonymous with that term. Americans for prosperity. Americans for prosperity is registered with the irs as a nonprofit social welfare organization. But its actually the nerve center of the most influential Fundraising Network in the country. Jane literally wrote the book on dark money and the controversy surrounding these groups. Americans for prosperity spent Something Like 60 million just on its own in dark money. They have built up this network of nonprofit groups that dont look overtly political that push their political point of view. Their mission, to advance the conservative libertarian agenda of americans for prosperitys founders, billionaire industrial brothers charles and david koch. So who are the Koch Brothers . Explain it to me. They are owners of the second Largest Private Company in america. Probably everybody has some product from Koch Industries in their life. Like what . They make everything from stain master carpet to dixie cups to Georgia Pacific lumber. But they are huge proprietors of oil. Are they representing the interests of a wide group of the American Public or are their interests, can they boil down to how much money it makes them . The kochs would say that what they are pushing is something that they think is good for all americans. But if you take a look at it, what you find is its especially good for the kochs. The kochs declined our request for an interview. But the reporting shows how americans for prosperity used money from like minded donors to help shift u. S. Policy and politics in their favor, promoting huge tax cuts for the wealthy, supporting antilabor candidates, funding efforts to crush Renewable Energy and almost all of the money came from untraceable donations. Flowing through the kochs complex dark money network. So you might see an ad and its funded by one of those groups, but you wouldnt necessarily know that group had anything to do with david or charles koch. Because a lot of groups have these very bland names, America Future fund or americans for job security. Who is that really . What you would realize if you go through the paperwork, it was like a daisy chain of money. And if you were able to trace it back, a lot of it would come from this group of 400 of the richest, most conservative people in the country who work with the kochs and funded it. In may of 2019 the koch network rebranded with a new name, stand together. And in this incarnation, it says its open to supporting democrats who are pro dreamers antitariff. No matter what the name and reported orientation, it is sure to remain a potent political force. After dozens of phone call, im basically striking out. Okay. Its a no. Okay, thanks. Bye. So far its not going so good. The reason so many members of congress probably dont want to talk about this is because money equals power in politics. And to bite the hand that feeds you is probably not a good proposition to the people who work in that building. Conservative fundraising giants like the kochs are committed to giving their side the edge. But they are not alone. If there is one thing thats bipartisan in washington, its rampant political spending. Mega donors like financier george soros and Michael Bloomberg gave millions to Democratic Candidates and causes in the past year. Then there is tom steyer, billionaire founder of next gen america and need to impeach. A former Hedge Fund Manager turned liberal activist, tom steyer committed millions to three issues he sees as critical to americas survival, clean energy, Voter Registration and removing President Donald Trump from office. My name is tom steyer, im running for president. Now he announced he is running for president himself, joinings the crowded democratic field. And he said he plans to spend 100 million of his own money, months before his candidacy he accepted my invitation to speak on camera. And i thought a certain well known Washington Hotel would be the Perfect Place to talk to a man trying to get a president impeached. Im so interested in people like you because you do have such a giant platform to influence american politics with the size of just frankly your checkbook. When you decide to spend money, are you doing it in a truly altruistic way . Well, im doing it because i think look, i think what were doing is consistently, intentionally, solely to push for, you know, a broader democracy. Almost 80 of americans, almost 8 out of 10 americans believe that our system has been purchased by corporations. They believe money is a problem. And i agree with that. So someone asked you whats the difference between you and david or charles koch, what do you say . I say were transparent. Theyre not. They have pushed very, very hard for things that are extremely good for their bottom lines, and that is a complete difference. So you dont stand to make money off any clean energy. No. Because what i did is i said if i have any clean money investments, ill put them in a foundation. If they turn out to be good investments, then i have to give the money away and i can never touch it legally. He says hes not profiting personally, but is a billionaire trying to bank roll the impeachment of a president really democracy . If the American Public wanted to impeach the president of the United States, they will put significant political pressure on their elected officials. Thats our total belief, too. Thats our belief. But what do you say to those who hear that and they say to you, hey, youre one person putting a ton of money into politics. Im still uncomfortable with that. Look, im uncomfortable with it. Im in favor of federally funded elections. Are you in favor of Campaign Finance reforms . Absolutely. Yes, yes, yes. Are you part of the problem . Am i one of the people who have disproportionately benefitted . Definitely. Im figuring out how to push that system back so it gets back to justice, a working democracy of by and for the people . Yes. Tom steyer and the Koch Brothers are making their presence felt on the biggest stages of politics. But to see how the swamp is affecting people on an increasingly local level, we need to leave washington and head west. Explain to me why all of your neighbors dont have solar like you do . Because dark money succeeded in electing the regulators they wanted to have regulate them. E wanted to have regulate them cut. Liberty mu. Line . Cut. Liberty mutual customizes your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. Cut. Liberty m. Am i allowed to riff . What if i come out of the water . Liberty biberty. Cut. Well dub it. Liberty mutual customizes your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Upbeat musieverything was so fresh in the beginning. [sniff] dramatic music but that plug quickly faded. Upbeat music luckily theres febreze plug. It cleans away odors and freshens for 1200 hours. [deep inhale] breathe happy with febreze plug. I am totally blind. And non24 can make me show up too early. Or too late. Or make me feel like im not really there. Talk to your doctor, and call 8442342424. Here, it all starts withello hi . How can i help . A data plan for everyone. Everyone . Everyone. Lets send to everyone wifi up there . Uhh. Sure, why not . Howd he get out . a camera might figure it out. That was easy glad i could help. At xfinity, were here to make life simple. Easy. Awesome. So come ask, shop, discover at your local xfinity store today. With money flooding our elections like never before, the impact of political mega donors is being felt throughout the country. From washington, i headed to arizona to see how this ramped spending is affecting peoples lives on a daily basis. This is one of two Water Treatment facilities in tempe, arizona. Whats obviously most notable is all this solar. It turns out not just in tempe, but in arizona solar is the exception rather than the rule. Only 6 of energy in arizona comes from solar, the sunniest state in the union. And that is directly related to the spending of dark money here. In 2014, a sudden surge in untraceable Campaign Donations changed the course of Energy Policy in the state. That money, more than 3 million, helped get two antisolar power candidates elected to the commission that sets arizonas energy policies. As the new commission began rolling back solar power incentiv incentives, raising rates for thousands of solar customers, many believe the states largest private Utility Company aps was the source of that dark money. Why . Because solar power threatened their profits from Nuclear Energy and natural gas. At the time, aps would neither conform, nor deny if they were behind the mysterious Campaign Contributions. But for one local politician, the answer was clear. We have to get closer to the sun. The vice mayor of tempe, arizona, is a long time solar advocate. Solar energy isnt just a political powerpoint, it is how she powers her home. Explain to me why all of your neighbors dont have solar just like you do. Because dark money succeeded in electing the regulators they wanted to have regulate them. And so you have to pay some kind of fee in order to have this today. Im grandfathered in for a few more years, but yes. Any new solar adoptions, they need to pay in my territory about 50 a month. Is it fair to say that in one of the sunniest states in the union that dark money has prevented solar power from proliferating through residential communities . I think thats true. After seeing the impact of dark money firsthand, she was determined to find back. In march of 2018, she got together with other local officials at Tempe City Hall and led a successful bipartisan evident to get dark money out of her citys elections. So you were able to do something that not many people have done across this country, which is you have legislated or mandated the disclosure of dark money in tempe. We call it the sunshine ordinance because it was about transparency. I worked on a working group with the mayor and another council member. This is something the entire counsel supported. We voted unanimously to put it on the ballot. Thats when our citizens supported it by 91. 44 . Thats enormous. It was an unbelievable statement that voters want to be informed. They want to know who is behind the messages they see on tv and in the mailers. They want to know who is trying to influence their elections. After passing their initiative by more than 90 , she was confident other cities would quickly follow suit. But in april of 2018, less than a month later, the republican majority Arizona StateLegislature Passed a bill banning local governments like tempe from disclosing dark money donors. That bill was drafted in large part by the American Legislative Exchange council, a conservative think tank that gets funding and guidance from fossil fuel heavyweights like the Koch Brothers and arizonas private Utility Company aps. The reality is as of today, as of this moment, if there is dark money spent in tempe, you are not necessarily going to know who is behind it, right . Well, the problem is Legislature Passed a law to preempt it to interfere with it. Theyre telling us it is against the arizona constitution. So were expecting to have a legal battle soon. We havent yet. But were fully expecting that to happen. Despite the long road ahead, she has vowed to continue to shine the light on dark money. The First Amendment protects free speech. But what our dark money disclosure said is there is no right to hide behind that speech. In march 2019, private utility aps finally confirmed what they suspected all along. Under threat of subpoena from newly elected energy commissioners, aps disclosed they were behind donations benefitting antisolar candidates in 2014. The utility giants revealed it spent more than three times more than what was previously thought for a total of nearly 11 million. With dark money flooding into places like arizona, the swamp just keeps getting deeper. But it wasnt always this way. To get that story, im heading back to washington. What is the difference between what you are describing and Money Laundering . Not a whole heck of a lot. At chevy, were all family. Were a festive family. Were a fourlegged family. Were a getupandgo family. Were a ski family. Were all part of the chevy family. And as we kick off the new year, wed like you to be a part of ours. Because our chevy employee discount is Still Available to everyone. The chevy price you pay is what we pay. Not a cent more. So happy new year, and welcome to the family. The chevy family the chevy employee discount for everyone ends soon. The beat goes onp for Heart Failure look like . It looks like emily cooking dinner for ten. The beat goes on it looks like jonathan on a date with his wife. Ladiladidi entresto is a Heart Failure medicine that helps your heart, so you can keep on doing what you love. Entresto helped people stay alive and out of the hospital. Heart failure can change the structure of your heart, so it may not work as well. Entresto helps improve your hearts ability to pump blood to the body. Dont take entresto if pregnant; it can cause harm or death to an unborn baby. Dont take entresto with an ace inhibitor or aliskiren, or if youve had angioedema with an ace or arb. The most serious side effects are angioedema, low blood pressure, kidney problems, or high blood potassium. The beat goes on ask your doctor about entresto for Heart Failure. Ask your doctor about entresto for Heart Failure yeah entrust your heart to entresto. The beat goes on that will makeout washington insiders very uncomfortable term limits. You and i both know we need term limits, that congress shouldnt be a lifetime appointment. But members of congress, and the corporations whove bought our democracy hate term limits. Too bad. Im tom steyer and i approve this message because the only way we get universal healthcare, address Climate Change and make our economy more fair is to change business as usual in washington. Made it myself. I love this place made that myself, too. Order up. Fries on the side. Right where i like em. Dont forget the grease fire. Burn, baby wait, what . [ alarm beeping ] i said grease fire. What are you doing on the counter . When owning a Small Business gets real. Sorry. Can i get a togo box . Progressive helps protect what you built with customizable coverage. Aah how do you figure out if donald trump has conflicts of interest . It is one big giant swamp. Drain the swamp. Youre watching msnbc. After seeing how even the sun drenched desert is drowning in the swamp, i joined katie in washington to figure out how we got to this point. It is hard to believe now, but there was a time not that long ago when it seemed Like Congress had a handle on this thing. In 2002, democratic senator Russ Feingold got together with republican senator john mccain to introduce the first major bill addressing Campaign Finance abuses since the watergate era. Well, there was this law in place, the federal elections law for 20 or 30 years, but a loophole had been created that was undermining the contribution limits that had been created by the legislation. So what it meant was this spigot wheel where wealthy individuals could give unlimited amounts of money. Did you feel like it was a soft form of bribery . Without a doubt. In fact, we called it legalized bribery. So john mccain and i decided we had to at least get rid of this loophole. It also prohibited corporations and other groups for paying for tv ads in the run up to primary and again elections. Real reform. But eight years later, the law would be all but wiped out by one of the most Controversial Court cases in american history. My name is david bosse and im president of citizens utilitied. A conservative nonprofit called Citizens United produced a docket umentary called hilla the movie, which slammed Hillary Clinton and planned to air it on cable tv just before the 2008 primary season got started. But a District Court ruled that the film basically amounted to a feature length attack ad against clinton and airing it so close to the primaries would violate mccain feingold. The films producers appealed to the Supreme Court and in a decision few saw coming, the court agreed with Citizens United, ruling 54 that corporations had the same rights as individuals. The court also ruled that political spending was a form of free speech. Were you surprised by the decision on Citizens United . I was shocked. I hadnt heard anybody really say that that was a legitimate thing to do. And, yet, the court went ahead and did it. The flood of political money unleashed by Citizens United led to the rise of what we now know as super pacs. A super pac can accept Unlimited Money from basically anyone, including corporations, labor unions and billionaire mega donors with two important restrictions. Donors names are disclosed and super pacs are not allowed to work directly with a candidate or campaign. Do you think theres evidence that contributions to a super pac are correcting . I dont think there is any question. Its all a wink and a nod. These are former Staff Members who know exactly what to do. So the idea that somehow this is separate, that its independent is an absurdity. This is why disclosure is so important. The record is built. People can follow the money. At least super pacs are required to disclose the names of the donors so we know where that money is coming from. Sheila is executive director of the center for responsive politics, a nonpartisan Research Organization that tracks political spending through its website opensecrets. Org. According to her, the money unleashed by Citizens United has also flowed freely into nonprofit social welfare groups that are not required to make their donors public. We think of a group like planned parenthood or the National Rifle association, which has a social welfare purpose. They are not organized primarily to influence politics, but theyre allowed some political activity. There has been a huge spike in politically active social welfare groups. Many are legitimate but some seem to have no purpose other than to allow dark money to flood into the political system. They sometimes are spending tens of millions of dollars, but they have no bricks and mortar. They operate out of p. O. Box. Their money spikes in election years and drops off during nonelection years. These are the trademark qualities of a political committee. What is the difference between what youre describing and Money Laundering . Not a whole heck of a lot. We have tracked these money flows going through these very complex networks to in part erase the footprint. As if this isnt bad enough, these groups can can donate their money to anyone they want, including a super pac and still keep the original donors secret. Because it is anonymous, how can we be assured that its even domestic . We have evidence that Foreign Countries would love to meddle in our elections. What you are describing are all things that are threatening our democracy. A donation is not a bad thing. It is a perfectly legitimate way to get engaged with your political system. The problem is that there are wealthy corporations, nonprofits, for profit that have far greater resources and are far more interested in using that money to get what they want out of our political system. After learning more about Citizens United and its impact, i thought it would be hard to find someone who actually thinks this is a good thing. But i was wrong. Bran smith is a former chairman of the federal Election Commission and a staunch advocate for even less Campaign Finance regulation than we have now. To get his take, i asked smith to meet me where money speaks loudest, the new york stock exchange. So you agree with Citizens United. Doesnt the decision effectively say if you have more money, you have more free speech . If you have more money, you have more ability to go out and speak. I dont think there is any way that one can say that thats not the case. What the Supreme Court had long said is that the government cant limit the speech of some people in order to try and enhance the voice of someone else. You dont want the government saying, you, george soros, you guys have spoken enough. Just shut up. But you people, you need to talk more. Thats exactly what we dont trust the government to do. But the disparity of wealth between people, it has gotten larger and larger and larger over the years. So the people who truly have the money and truly have the power, it is a Smaller Group of people compared to everybody else. Im not sure that is true at all. But beyond that, lets think again. Were also not comparing the system to some pie in the sky ideal. We understand that democracy is a messy business. And we understand that the best way so hear is a lot of voices. Nobody should be shut down. Watch a sitcom or a news program or turn on your television. Every ad you see is from an outside group talking about a candidate. These ads increase voter knowledge, helps them know more about the candidates. A lot, though, are completely untrue. I dont know that you can say that. And, again, the question is, you know, do you want government making that decision . Do you want government making the decision on whats fake news . Do you want it making a decision on what ads are legitimate . Its hard to argue against more free speech in a democracy. But as jacob and i were about to see, in the heat of an election cycle, free speech isnt really free. So people with the most money have the most free speech . Now people who can afford free speech have free speech. Phones down. We need a solution. Introducing. Smartdogs. The first dogs trained to train humans. Stopping drivers from liking. Selfieing. And whatever this is. Available to the public. Never. Smartdogs are not the answer. But geico has a simple tip. Turn on do not disturb while driving mode. Brought to you by geico. Ive always loved and im still going for my best, even though i live with a higher risk of stroke due to afib not caused by a heart valve problem. So if theres a better treatment than warfarin, ill go for that. Eliquis. Eliquis is proven to reduce stroke risk better than warfarin. Plus has significantly less major bleeding than warfarin. Eliquis is fdaapproved and has both. Whats next . Sharing my roots. Dont stop taking eliquis unless your doctor tells you to, as stopping increases your risk of having a stroke. Eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. Dont take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. While taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily and it may take longer than usual for any bleeding to stop. Seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. Eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. Tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. Eliquis, the number one cardiologistprescribed blood thinner. Ask your doctor if eliquis is whats next for you. You sureyes. Ut this . [ suspensful music playing ] no we need to keep moving. The whole things coming down. Come on i cant see. I cant see you need to trust me. Jump on the Hawaiian Island of kauai the search is over for seven people on board a helicopter that crashed during a sightseeing trip. Search crews found wreckage of the chopper on friday after it went missing thursday. Officials say there are no survivors. And a winter storm is sweeping across the Northern Plains and mid and southwest. It could bring headaches for holiday travelers. Snow accumulations of 1218 inches are expected. In american politics a Campaign Finance arms race is escalating with no end in sight. Jacob and i want to see how super pacs and dark money groups turn their cash into action. These shadow campaigns dont literally buy votes or hand money over to candidates. But they do spend billions to sell their preferred candidate to the widest audience possible while tearing down their opponents. And the weapon of choice is the attack ad. Matt rosendale would make washington worse. To get a crash course in this dark art, we invited a veteran political strategist to our new york city headquarters. Citizens united changed everything, made campaigning the new battleground for corporations and others to express their points of view without limitations. So people with the most money have the free speech. Now people who can afford free speech have free speech. Is the goal to manipulate the American Public . I mean, what is the goal . The goal sometimes is to manipulate. The goal other times is to make sure people you dont want to turn out dont turn out and people that are angry turn out to make them do what you want to do. Is it ever to educate . All ads that work are not about education and political campaigns. They are about emotional response to particular conditions that are made clear in those ads. This is from florida. How far out is Andrew Gillum . Hes on another planet. He wants a government takeover of health care. Youd lose the coverage you have and you could even lose your doctor. Were losing radio contact. He supports closing our Immigration Enforcement agency. Dangerous. Planet andrew, come in. If you look at this, they got him in green. Not the best look. The imagery makes him foreign. They come up with arguments that people are afraid of that can be tested well. And they use it in a way that creates fear among people so they have to take action. In the case of gillum, an ad like that goes to health care. In the state of florida you have an aging population and you have an immigrant population that people are afraid of. Take two or three factoids that may or may not be related and create sense of fear and anger and you got it. It also comes in triplets really where you say hes a dog, a chicken and a horse. You can defend against one or two, but you cant defend against three. After meeting with hank, it was pretty clear the super pacs will spend whatever it takes to get their message out. Nowhere was this more apparent than the 2018 midterms. Of the record shattering 5. 7 bm billion spent on congressional and gubernatorial races, almost 3 billion of that went to tv ads. Why dont you yall get out and fire ted cruz . Yall hear me . To find out who the biggest spenders were, i went back to d. C. To dig deeper with our nbc politics team. The reason i want to bug you guys is i would get these regular emails from the campaign and it looked like you were tracking every ad on television. What did you do . Lets show you. This software tracks every single ad that airs by topic, how much money has been spent on individual ads and every day basically in realtime we would get updates of what was airing throughout the country. This allows us to get a good picture of what they were spending in these races. Outside spenders on both sides waged an all out warfare air political ads a mind numbing total of 3. 5 million times during the 2018 cycle. But at the end of the day, it was democrats who went into overdrive, outspending republicans by more than 70 million. Think about outside money in particular. For whatever reason in my mind i think republicans, the Koch Brothers, unlimited spending. But democrats spent more this time around. It is a case you saw it reflected in the election results. About 80 to 90 of these races, the candidate who spent more money won. Thats wild. I mean, you guys have tracked this for multiple election cycles. How is it changing . More and more money every election . It is more and more money and of course the age of the super pacs where we start to see so much. This will be existing in the 2020 and it will take new laws or a new Supreme Court ruling to really change the terrain here. For his part, president Trumps Campaign says theyre planning to raise 1 billion for his reelection. The more katie and i learned, the more keeping deep pockets and dark money out of our elections was feeling like a lost cause. But we heard that 2,000 miles west, there was actually signs of hope. Next stop montana. How do you drain a swamp . How do you eat an elephant . One bite at a time. T an elephan . One bite at a time Liberty Biberty cut. Well dub it. Liberty mutual customizes your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. I am all about livi g joyfully. Hello. The united explorer card hooks me up. Getting more for getting away. Rewarded going new places and tasting new flavors. Rewarded traveling lighter. Rewarded. Haha, boom getting settled. Rewarded. Learn more at the explorer card dot com. And get. 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Con Liberty Mutual solo pagas lo que necesitas. Only pay for what you need. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. With a wave of candidates starting to fill their war chest for a 2020 president ial run, the swamp of big Money Politics continues to rise. But far from the spotlight of washington, d. C. , one state is taking matters into its own hands. With the governor committed to transparency and some of the strictest Campaign Finance laws in the nation, montana is fighting back against the corrupting forces of political spending and winning. Over the course of this journey that katie and i have been on to look at the influence of money in politics has been pretty depressing, but everybody says, go to montana and talk to the governor. Why are people saying that to us . I think because we have showed in montana that at the end of the day we could still make it so elections are about people. We experienced what happened in our history. If youre not going to stand up to corporate spending. Montanas fight to get big money out of politics goes back more than 100 years. At the turn of the 20th century, mining magnates known as the copper kings used their corporate coveffers to literall buy and sell political offices until the people of montana demanded change. In 1906, the corporations shall control the people or the people shall control the corporations. So all of that was the Tipping Point where montana had said enough. It was called the corrupt practice act of 1912. It made it so corporate treasuries couldnt spend or contribute in any of our elections. That law stood for nearly 100 years until it was struck down, reopening the flood gates to corporate spending and a tidal wave of dark money. Every other state more or less said game over after the Citizens United decision. Every other state ended up getting knocked down by the Supreme Court saying there is nothing more than we can do. But the governor was determined to make sure montana knew who was trying to buy their elections. In 2015, bullock, a democrat, teamed up with state legislatures on both sides of the aisle to make montanas Campaign Finance with most transparent in the country. Its called the disclose act. It says if you are going to spend in our elections you got to tell us who you are. During the last 90 days, you have to tell us who you are and where the money is coming from. When i was running for election in 2016, americans for prosperity were putting all kind of postcards talking about what a horrible human being i was. 90 days out, they stopped. If we could stop afc and the Koch Brothers in montana, we can stop them anywhere. How do we get out of the swamp . How do you eat an elephant . One bite at a time. How do you drain a swamp . Maybe its one bucket at a time. Lets take some of the steps. Transparency at least, adding sunshine. And its something states can do and the federal government could do if they had the will. The governor, who has also thrown his hat into the president ial ring hasnt been alone in his efforts to fight dark money. Montana has a citizen legislature. All elected members have fulltime jobs outside of politics. Hey, man. Are you a member of the senate . Yes. So are you in session right now . We just finished. What is your other job . I work on the university of montana campus doing a Leadership Development program. Its not just the fact montanas legislatures have day jobs that sets them apart. Im a boilermaker by trade. Im a chemist for the state of montana. They have also got the lowest individual political contribution limits in the nation. I just finished running for reelections and i raised 47,000. 180 at a time. Thats our limit. Raised less than 7,000. Knocking on doors of my neighbors. Mine was the biggest spender. The two of us were the big spenders. What was yours . I raised about 45,000. How about you . 22,000. I mean, i think the people that hear us have this conversation say, but, yeah, corporate influence in politics is so big and so strong, it will never make a difference raising 180 at a time. I think here in montana because of the huge transparency measures, we have been able to push back on that. Some of these larger pacs and corporations dont even engage in montanas politics anywhere because they dont want to go through the strict scrutiny we have set and you have to go through now. The agency keeping watch over all political spending in montana is just across the street from the state house. This house might be a lot smaller, but the responsibilities of those inside are huge. As the one and only commissioner of political practices, jeff mangin, along with his chief counsel are tasked with enforcing montanas tough Campaign Finance laws. So all the money that goes into the elections in the state of montana funnels through this little house . It passes through on paper or electronic form. Each and every day through here. How much money are we talking about . It depends on each election cycle. But i would say hundreds of millions of dollars. Probably. But its not just enforcing montanas laws, its defending them when they come under attack. We have ongoing litigation. I have a u. S. Supreme court brief case on my desk right now. Talk to me about that case. Its a challenge to the disclose act thats made its way up to the u. S. Supreme court. We actually have two up there this season. In addition to the disclose act, several conservative groups have challenged montanas contribution limits law. Both challenges were crafted by james bob jr. , the same lawyer who successfully argued Citizens United before the Supreme Court in 2010. If the Supreme Court hears these rules, individual campaign limits of 180 bucks, then the disclose act, other states may very well move forward and do what you you did here. Right. They could breathe a sigh of relief. Not long after i left montana, the Supreme Court decided not to review the challenges to montanas Campaign Contribution limits or the disclose act, meaning both will remain the law in montana. Now the question is will other states follow montanas lead on Campaign Finance reform . And more importantly, will congress . Would you support getting rid of all dark money, all super pacs in elections . Ce, so you only pay for what you need. I wish i could shake your hand. Granted. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. When you take align, you have the support of a probiotic and the gastroenterologists who developed it. Align naturally helps to soothe your occasional digestive upsets, 24 7. So, where you go, the pro goes. Go with align, the pros in digestive health. I need all the breaks, that i can get. At liberty butchumal cut. Liberty biberty cut. Well dub it. Liberty mutual customizes your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Here, it all starts withello hi . How can i help . A data plan for everyone. Everyone . Everyone. Lets send to everyone wifi up there . Uhh. Sure, why not . Howd he get out . a camera might figure it out. That was easy glad i could help. At xfinity, were here to make life simple. Easy. Awesome. So come ask, shop, discover at your local xfinity store today. With some of the strictest Campaign Finance laws in the nation, montana is winning the fight to keep big money out of their elections. But back in washington, d. C. , when it comes to protecting our democracy from being sold to the highest bidder, theres a lot more talk than action. In fact, weve been talking about it for more than 200 years. Hi. Hi. Some of the earliest writings to tackle the subject are held here at the library of congress. Thanks for having us. Today we know them as the federalist papers. So, there were three authors. We have James Madison was one of the authors. John j. And alexander hamilton. James madisons copy actually has annotations by James Madison. It says right here, mr. Madisons copy. One of James Madisons essays, federalist number 10, addresses the dangers of what he called factions and is often cited by people on both sides of the Campaign Finance debate. Okay. Thanks. Federalist number 10 . He is leaving us alone with the federalist papers. Among the advantages promised by a wellconstruct ed union, none deserves to be more accurately developed than its tendency to break and control the violence of faction. Faction can be read as what . Special interest groups. So this is basically talking about money and influence and Large Organizations . There are two methods of curing the mischiefs of faction, the one by removing its causes, the other by controlling its effects. By removing its causes, how do you do that . You cant remove the causes of human nature. Human nature or faction. Right. I think you can control its effects. Yeah. Today the men and women entrusted with controlling the effects of money in politics are our elected leaders. We didnt have much success trying to get members of the senate to meet with us. But we were still determined to get some answers on where they stand on Campaign Finance reform. Can we ask you questions about Campaign Finance reform . Were in an interview right now. Oh, you are, its two questions. We have questions about Campaign Finance reform. Can we talk to you about Campaign Finance . Lets do it, real quick. We want to talk to you about Campaign Finance reform. Good. Would you support getting rid of all the dark money on super pacs in elections . Ah, i dont know. Would you guys support any Campaign Finance reform . There is always ways to make Campaign Finance reform to make it better than it is today. When we finally got some senators to stop and speak with us, just about all of them thought the system could be improved. But nobody, republican or democrat, seemed prepared to disavow outside money all together. Someone wants to advocate on the issue, you can contribute funds and i dont think there is anything wrong with that. I dont mind it so much if money goes in provided you know every second where it is. Im okay with a discussion on how we disclose it can have better disclosure. Do you think there is any plans for Campaign Finance reform . The biggest hurdle is Citizens United. I dont like the decision. I think we have ample authority as legislative bodies to control how Campaign Finance is run. Do you have any chance of it being overturned . No, i dont think so. Two of the contacted did invite us to meet with them, Michael Bennett from from new york. Both later became democratic hopefuls. You decided not to take pac mo inin your campaign. Why . How come . Yes. Corporations already have an outside influence in politics and i believe that our politics need to be returned to the people. Would you tell the mike bloom bergs and george soros to stop spending outside money . If we have publicly funded elections. You cant say all the do gooders, you cant spend any money and all the other was want to continue the current framework can, thats absurd. What would you say to people that call you a hypocrite if you stand up and say i dont accept pac money in my campaign . I think there should be Campaign Contribution limits. I dont believe money is free speech. I believe in publicly funded Direction Campaign limits on contributions. Why did you agree to sit down and talk to us about this . Because i think that if we dont fix our broken Campaign Finance system, were not going to address all the things that americans need us to address in this country. Are you optimistic it will ever get fixed . Im optimistic on everything. But i think it will be hard to get this fixed with the current cast of characters in this place. There is a strong sense here that people dont want to unilaterally disarm money thats come in as a result of Citizens United, which makes it very challenging. What i want to say that it will not fix itself. This has to be an engagement by american citizens in their democracy. Which brings us back to the Core Principles this nation was founded on or as James Madison wrote, who are to be the electors of the federal representatives . Not the rich more than the poor, not the learned more than the ignorant. So what theyre saying is we dont want to be ruled by a lorded aris tlord ed aristocracy. We will create a nation for the people by the people and protect this government against our worst instinct. Yeah, it wont alms business protected. It wont always work and sometimes it needs to be fixed and today again might be one of those days. We just dont know how exactly they would want it to be fixed. I cant imagine they would foresee anything that we have today. Would James Madison be on twitter . Oh, definitely. Eric. It was a pleasure. Thank you so much. While the founders understood the danger of money in politics, they also knew that the right of people to form groups advocating for their interests was the hallmark of a truly free republic. What they couldnt have known was just how much power those groups and all that money wield today. Which is why we, the people, need to stay informed and vigilant if were ever going to reclaim our democracy and get out of the swamp. Coming up on american swamp vote of no confidence. Is american democracy failing . As we head into the 2020 elections, can Americans Trust the system . Or is the swamp too deep . Drain the swamp i never thought in Elementary School growing up learning about elections in america that one day i would be talking about the worlds greatest democracy, vietnam. Vietnam has the best voter turnout. They put us to shame. Vietnam, dominica, uruguay, malta, seychelles, ecuador, turkey, then on page, basically at the end, its the United States. Keep going. Keep turning the page. The United States is between bosnia, herzegovina, and singapore. Bottom line, is we have some problems