Doesnt understand memorial day. He has no connection to memorial day. He doesnt know that it began as Decoration Day in 1868, when we honored our war dead by decorating their graves at Arlington National cemetery. Memorial day didnt become an official federal holiday until 1971, but the tradition of decorating war graves never stopped. I did it when i was a little kid in boston. My daughter did it. When she was a girl scout. And her group planted small american flags at a los angeles Veterans Cemetery in westwood. I called my mother from that cemetery, knowing that she would want to know what her granddaughter was doing there, was planting those flags. And when my mother thought about the people that she lost in world war ii on that phone call, she cried as if it were yesterday. Many of us have someone we think about on memorial day. Some veterans have many people they think about on memorial day. I think about my cousin johnny. He was the biggest of all of us in every way. I idolized him when we went to west point to watch him play football. Ill never forget his last visit to us in boston, after he graduated from west point, and before he shipped out to vietnam. Where he had very big shoes to fill, because he was john t. Coraly, jr. , and everyone knew his father was general john t. Coraly, who was by then something of a legend in the army having won eight silver stars in comebat but hedon think of himself, he was the son of eye require immigrants and stayed lucky finding his way to west point and stayed lucky through two wars, world war ii and korea. My cousin johnny earned a silver star, in four months in vietnam on september 8, 1968 the day he was killed in action an his funeral in fort jackson in columbia, south carolina, was the First Military funeral i attended. Tragedy has many faces but none quite like the general crying saluting his sons coffin. And thats what i think about. On memorial day. And so i never say happy memorial day. Donald trump can say it because no one in the trump family has ever searched rved in the milit that. Is also why donald trump could Say Something like that this about john mccain. Hes not a war hero. Hes a war hero. Five and a half years. He is a war hero because he was captured. I like people that werent captured. Donald trump has no personal connection to what memorial day means. And he is trying to have no personal connection to what memorial day means in 2020, when we now have more dead from the coronavirus than we lost in the korean war and the vietnam war combined. Joe biden understands memorial day. Joe biden left his delaware home for the First Time Since the lockdown began. To lay a wreath at the delaware Memorial BridgeVeterans Memorial park. And joe bidens first appearance outside of his home, he and his wife jill biden followed the delaware rule of wearing a mask. And donald trump attended the traditional wreath laying ceremony today at Arlington National cemetery, he did not wear a mask. Ohios republican Governor Mike Dewine this weekend said this about wearing masks. This is not about politics. This is not about whether youre a liberal or a conservative, left or right, republican, democrat. We wear the mask and it has been very clear, studies have shown, you wear the mask not to protect yourself so much as to protect others. And this is one time when we truly are all in this together. North dakotas republican governor became emotional on friday, when he pleaded with people not to divide themselves over wearing a mask. If someone is wearing a mask, theyre not doing it to represent what Political Party they are in or what candidates they support, they might be doing it because theyve got a 5yearold child whos been going through cancer treatments, they might have vulnerable adults in their life, who are currently off covid and fighting. If someone wants to wear a mask. There should be no mask shaming. The doctor at Louisiana StateUniversity Hospital has been keeping a video diary of life and death in new orleans. Were about ten weeks into it here in louisiana. Our first covid19 case was march 9th. Two weeks after that, we had about 1500 case, and 34 deaths. Thats the point at which governor edwards implemented the initial stayathome order. Our latest numbers show over 37,000 coronavirus cases in the state. Over 2500 deaths. But a closer look at the numbers show that were trending in the right direction. Hospitalizations are down 50 . Use of ventilators in our state is down 75 . Compared to ppe. But we need to know the success in our state. Principle avoidance of large gatherings. Maintenance of social distancing. And the continued use of face masks while in public. Each day, we learn more and more about this virus. Every day, science gets us closer to an answer. Answers such as a good antiviral. The latest data on remdesivir is extremely positive. A 30 quicker recovery. A 40 relative decrease in mortality. More and more doctors are using the convalesce ent plasma from recovered patients. Many companies are in advanced trials, looking at vaccines, vaccines that can hopefully one day give us an effective true immunity. This is what time can give us. This is why its so important to keep that curve flat. Science is going to get us to the other side. We just each need to do our part million we get there. Leading off our discussion tonight is, dr. Vin gupta, a pull none ologist and Global Health policy expert, he is an nbc news and msnbc medical contributor and also jonathan, columnist for the daily beast and msnbc political analyst. Dr. Gupta i want to begin where dr. Masri just left off. He was giving us a kind of a survey from his seat in the emergency room about what is happening there in america with the development of possible treatment, possible vaccine, down the road, and why we have to try to hold the curves down, between now and that end of the road where there might be a medical intervention that actually works here. What is your sense of what we see out there tonight in terms of the way the curve seems to be trending in the right direction in the northeast at least, as opposed to the rest of the country . Thanks. Always good to be with you. What i would say, just to amplify dr. Masris point, the perspective of an intensive care unit, actively caring for patients here in seattle is different from what you hear from our elected officials. There isnt that much wiggle room in our icus here to extend the resources if more patients end up coming into our Emergency Rooms because were easing social distancing. We dont have multiple beds. We might have one crash bed as we call. It so there isnt that. There is a huge gap of us between those of us on the front lines and see the day to day realities and what youre hearing from President Trump. That all is well. From Governor Kemp down in georgia. Lets open up. There is a huge gap. And i think the one thing, so all of the things, remdesivir, i would actually say, we feel guarded optimism about remdesivir, i have multiple patients on that medication, in the icu, and you know, and improved recovery by four days, you could potentially get out of the icu a little quicker but we dont know if it actually saves lives, we dont know if it actually beats out the virus, does it actually combat it, we dont know that. There is still a lot of unknown. And the vaccine, all of the optimism on the vaccine, it probably just cautious optimism at most at this point. Still very early. Only eight Patients Enrolled in the phase one study a lot of unknown. Which means we have to hold the line on masks. The fact of the matter here is that masks, universal masking protects those who cant escape to the hamptons or cant go and do telework. It is really going to impact our front line workers. Our Grocery Store clerks. Our nurses. Our respiratory therapists. Those who are, by the way, predominantly women, who are predominantly people of color, thats who it is going to protect, so i dont understand why masks has now become this cultural war, this trigger word for so many people, these are basic things that we all need to hold the line on and build consensus on and if a president is not going to message on it, we need to. Jonathan, there is a news media challenge in this now, now that we have varying degrees of compliance with the guidelines that have been issued, because the tv news cameras love to go to the spot where people are crowding and people are violating social distancing, but the truth of the matter is, the overwhelming majority of americans are staying away from that, and the tv cameras seem to find every spot where its happening. I think thats right. Because its turned into a kind of a culture war question, lawrence, which is not healthy, for dealing with the real war, with covid. So trump has politicized the whole thing. Hes politicized masks. Which is really kind of insane when you think about it, because it is his government that has issued guidelines saying that when people go out, they should use masks. Not all the time. But they should think about using masks, and social distancing. And for him to send a very different message, crowd the churches, no mask, im not going to wear a mask, so im not going to model any behavior that you need, and to say that the media wants me to wear a mask, as if this is about owning the libs, owning the media, not about Public Health, and so we have a situation where the president of the United States is now really acting in a way thats contrary to Public Health. Not only is he not doing what he should do in a positive way, developing a plan of action, making sure that we really do have the testing, and the supplies, and the protective gear that we need, which he fell down on the job, you know, months ago, we lost as many as 40,000 americans as a result, but now, not only is he not doing what is necessary, he is actually doing things that are harming efforts to try to contain this disease. Dr. Gupta, i want to read a passage from the Washington Post about the kind of, the geography of the virus now. It says as the death toll nears 100,000, the disease caused by the virus has made a fundamental shift in who it touches, and where it reaches in america. According to a Washington Post analysis, of case data and interviews with Public Health professionals in several states. The pandemic that first struck in major metropolises is now increasingly finding its front line in the countrys rural areas, counties with acres of farmland, cramped meat packing plants, and out of the way prisons and few hospital beds. Dr. Gupta, how is that new geography of the disease affect the ability to respond to it . It challenges us, ssues that have been combatting the last 20 years. Much longer. Since the truman administration. Which is durable equitable access to health care. The truth is, if youre an exurban or rural county, you cant get a test for covid19 unless you have somebody prescribe it or unless your employer says were going to do a drivethrough. How Many Employers are doing that in the Rural Counties you mentioned, in eastern tennessee, or in south dakota. None. Because we just dont have the infrastructure. So this is where longstanding policies, inequities in health care access, that largely affect the indigent, that largely affect those people of color, women, on the front lines, are rearing their heads. And here is a quick fix if folks in the senate are listening. To even access telehealth care, to get a test through telehealth, you need a san antonio you need a simomart phone and we should make it available through talking, and we should have that available now. An extraordinary story from china about their capacity to respond to outbreak, the central chinese city of wuhan according to the the wall street journal has said today it has collected coronavirus swab tests from more than nine million of its 11 Million People, just over the past 10 days. Most of those nine million samples have already been processed, according to their records. And so jonathan, thats that second wave that they fear, in wuhan, as soon as they had a handful of cases, they run out and do, right away, about ten million, nine million tests in ten days. Look, the contrast between donald trump and his failed leadership and that and the rest of the world could not be more stark. And i hope that, you know, on this memorial day, we, as the lawyers say, we memorialize certain facts about the way this whole thing unfolded, and the testing failure that started in january, and february, you know, which we thought was going to be a temporary problem, because every expert knows that testing is the only way you can get on top of this thing. That failure continues to this day. So while this president , you know, is playing golf and basically declaring mission accomplished, not only is covid19 not being controlled, but the mechanism for controlling it, testing, has not been put into place. And i think people kind of are, some people are sort of assuming that this is, you know, such a big country, we cant possibly do all these tests, china puts the lie to that. And i think our own history puts the lie to that. So in terms of getting people to do the Contact Tracing and the other testing thats necessary, the Antibody Testing and covid testing, we need a testing army, and frankly, roosevelt, when we were in crisis during the depression, he wanted 250,000 young americans, mobilized, in a civilian conservation court, he did it almost overnight in three months. We could have gotten a testing army that was something we could have accomplished if we had the right kind of president ial leadership. Dr. Vin gupta, and jonathan, thank you very much for starting us off tonight. When we come back, we are just 162 days away from the president ial election. David from will join us with his new book about the Trump Presidency which shows us what the Trump Presidency has taught bus the strength and weaknesses of our institutions. Thats next. Some Companies Still have hr stuck between employees and their data. Entering data. Changing data. More and more sensitive, personal data. And it doesnt just drag hr down. It drags the entire business down with inefficiency, errors and waste. Its ridiculous. So ridiculous. With paycom, employees enter and manage their own data in a single, easy to use software. Visit paycom. Com, and schedule your demo today. If you have a garden you know, weeds are low down little scoundrels. With roundup sure shot wand you dont need to stoop to their level. Draw the line. The sure shot wand extends with a protective shield to pinpoint those pesky bedfellows. It lets you kill whats bad right down to the root, while comfortably guarding the good. Draw the line with the roundup sure shot wand. Roundup brand. Trusted for over 40 years. In a series of tweets this morning, donald trump threatened to move augusts Republic National convention out of North Carolina if roy cooper could not guarantee quote full attendance in the arena in charlotte. The atlantic statement, trump since his bankruptcies in the 1980s, trump contrived scams to keep his creditors at bay for the next 24 hours. Thats how he has managed the Coronavirus Crisis each day. He devised some new fantasy in the hope of fulfilling his supporters of lulling his supporters and boosting financial indoe sis. Joining us is the Senior Editor from the atlantic and former speech writer for george w. Bush. Thank you for joining us and congratulations on the new book. The title i just stumbled across is what . Trumppocalypse. I can say it. This has been a test kitchen for many ideas that became this book. I thank you and im very glad to be here tonight. Great. So this is classic trump situation with the republican convention. Theres probably no safe place in america. We know there is no safe place in america to assemble a full arena full of people elbow to elbow the way a political conventi convention normally is. That will not be safe anywhere in the country this summer. Do you think donald trump will find a state, alabama, will find a place somewhere where he can make that happen and take all those Public Health risks in the same room . Well, im guessing he pushes in that direction only to have it blow up in his face at the last minute. The reckoning really is here and for three years, people have wanted some master scheme, brilliant plan. The apocalypse is here. When i wrote the book, i thought the apocalypse would take the form of recession because of the trade war, shooting war with ir iran. Instead we got a neglected pandemic and this administration is cokareeming toward electoral disaster and it will take them with it. The question were all going to face is what then . Because what donald trump has shown and what weve talked about so often here in the evenings is there is an important minority in this country who is not reconciled to the basic rules of the Democratic State and youre not going to change their minds. Weve asked that again and again. What does it take to change their minds . Youre not going to. How do you safely govern a country around them and change a country in a way the veto matters a lot less . And how do you do that, david . Well, what you have to understand and this is the thing many people watching the show understand very well that the american system of government is built to treat some people more as more important political actors than other people. If people in california had to live for three minutes the way sorry, if people in wyoming had to live for three minutes the people in california do, they would think they are very ill used. How do you even it out so californian haves a few more rights than people in wyoming can claim . And that means practical, feasible reforms. No fantasies like eliminating the Electoral College to even things out. I give a couple examples in the book. Democrats will do well at the state level in 2020 and there will be a census in 2020 and redistricting afterwards. In states like North Carolina and wisconsin where democrats will have an advantage that are contestant states, democrats produce two maps. A fair map and map that is what the republicans did in 2010 and then turn to republicans in states like georgia and texas and say we can do it your way or a fairway. If you go fair, well go fair. If you go hard, well go hard. And look, its crazy politicians write these maps, thats really wrong but if they do, we have to have something more like a National System for holding them together and we need a new Voting Rights act, as well, to correct the mistake the Supreme Court made when it basically retired from the job of policing Racial Discrimination and voting. David, what are you expecting from donald trump as this president ial campaign wears on . Hes now trying to become the hero of conventions, probably knowing in his probably knowing its very unlikely they will have a convention in an indoor arena with people sitting and standing on top of each other but he wants some sense of hero wisdom about he tried to do that. What other pointless quests will he submit the president ial campaign to . Well, im guessing that six or seven months from today, this show and shows like it will be consumed with the question is the president legally entitled to pardon himself . Is the president legally entitled to pardon himself . Should he lose, he will look for the exit and escape plan. Hell have legal jeopardy gathering around him. Vice President Biden made news saying vice President Biden would not pardon former President Trump so if vice sorry, Vice President , future President Biden does not do it, who will, donald trump must ask . Thank you very much for joining us. The new book is trumpocalypse, which i can say. Its easier to read it silently. Well need you to hang around later in the program. When we come back, well look at the latest polls in the race for president and weve been having struggles with Laurie Garretts camera but i believe, i believe Laurie Garrett will be joining us to answer your questions how you can stay safe as the states begin to reopen as we promised you show would be here and we think thats going to work right after this break. We think thats going to work right after this break refunding our customers a portion of their personal auto premiums. Learn more at libertymutual. Com covid19. [ piano playing ] hey mama, whats up . I only see one price on my phone bill. Youre on tmobile, taxes and fees are included. Why cant all my bills be like this . I dont know mama. Umph with tmobile, taxes and fees are included. And when you switch your family, get 4 lines of unlimited for just 35 a line. Because i trust their quality they were the first to have a vitamin verified by usp. An independent organization that sets strict quality and purity standards nature made, the 1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand the 1 pharmacist recommended when you think of a bank, you think of people in a place. But when you have the chase mobile app, your bank can be virtually any place. So, when you get a check. You can deposit it from here. And you can see your transactions and check your balance from here. 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Donald trump simply wasnt prepared for that. I promise you i will be. Less than two hours after that donald trump of course, took to twitter to defend golfing trump style as quote exercise. While attacking joe biden and former president barack obama. Stewart stevens who was 12 top strategists in that president ial campaign wrote on twitter, when you make political ads, half the fun is wondering if the other guy will be dumb enough to take the bait. Trump never disappoints. That dog chases every car. A National Poll shows joe biden leading donald trump by 11 points. Joining us now is senior director of progressive programming, how to heal our liberal divide. The president spent the weekend in a golf cart after urge urging his followers to spend their sunday mornings shoulder to shoulder in church. Donald trump didnt go anywhere near a church of course and this is apparently the way hes going to play it. What is interesting is his base of supporters is older, white voters, voters currently going through these hot spots that were the result of people going out the first few weeks of may without the appropriate ppe. I cant think of an electoral strategy that involves killing your potential voters. I do not understand the strategy hes doing. But i think that part of what is on display despite the fact that im baffled by the strategy in terms of the math of it, the president has always been a walking, talking national sex cu Security Threat from day o e Security Threat from day one. Now were living this greatest fear. The thing that is bothering the most. In quarantine we are still obsessed with his personality and were focused not just on personality traits and lashing out of the folks but the sheer incompetence of the federal response and there are real tangible things that you can point to and say 36,000 americans would be alive today potentially if he made better choices as president. I think that hes just really worried. Maybe thats why he stays on the golf course, he doesnt know what to do in this moment. Jonathan alter, she mentions this issue about why would you put your own voters at risk as donald trump seems to be doing with his anti. That poll that we sited with the 11point biden lead shows a 10point lead for joe biden among seniors. There isnt a Group Donald Trump can point to in that poll and say lets make sure we take very good care of them at this point, anyway. Right. The only constituency that he really still has a Real Advantage with are white men between the ages of 40 and 60. So people arent quite old yet. Maybe they think that theyre invulnerable to covid. They see this as kind of a cowboy state versus the nanny state. There arent enough of them to win a president ial election and if hes not careful, he could be in danger of getting blown out. The constituencies he got the last time are rapidly eroding. For instance, older white women that went with trump, they didnt like hillary for whatever reason, they like joe biden. They think hes a nice guy. And they are tired of trump and want to change the channel on him. So trump now has a big problem with older white women and the real question for him is how does he get support back . There are two things you have to do, not lose support if youre behind, not lose more support but also figure outweighs to get back on track with various constituencies and i dont see the entrance ramp to that expressway for donald trump. I dont know where he gets the votes, so his only hope is to depress turnout on the other side. Thats why hes threatening the post office, absentee ballots and it becomes a turnout election and democrats have to understand this. Its not about persuading more people to be against trump. There are already enough of those people. Democrats just have to get turnout in gear. David, its so striking to see that very, very powerful Biden Campaign ad made this weekend about things happening this weekend in the Trump Presidency. There is such a rich archive that we would normally think of as relatively recent news that the Biden Campaign hasnt even touched for example, north korea. It was mentioned the fear of donald trump kind of tweeting us into a nuclear exchange. I think we were all very nervous about the way donald trump was dealing with north korea at the beginning then he fell in love publicly declared his love for kim jongun who this weekend, kim jongun reemerged at a meeting in north korea, which was about strengthening north Koreas Nuclear capability. The Biden Campaign hasnt even touched any of that yet. The trump north korea what happened to north koreas nukes, why is north korea now reenergizing their new clear approach . I think the Biden Campaign is focused on one simple met trick. The highest unemployment ever suffered by a president to be reelected was president obama in 2012. At the end of the year 2012 unemployment was 7. 8 . The second highest was Ronald Reagan in 1984 at the end of 1984 unemployment was 7. 7 . In both cases, the job situation had improved in the 12 months before the election. I had improved moderately in 2012 which is why president obama got moderately reelected and dramatically in the 12 months before 1984 which is why Ronald Reagan got dramatically reelected. There isnt that time for improvement before voting day 2020 and if there were time, the magnitude of the unemployment problem is so enormous, so mind boggling and Great Depression like that even if you were to bring millions of people into work in the next few months, there are 38 million or there were last week 38 million unemployed and more by the end of this week and i think the biden people are focused on that crushing economic weight and its impossible to imagine how President Trump gets past that. Its such a good point that this campaign now is the coronavirus and coronavirus unemployment campaign. Its very, very hard to get the electrets attention on to anything else but if the Biden Campaign ever does, theres a massive amount of material for them to work with. Oh, yeah. Donald trump was doing poorly as president before the pandemic. One of the things i dont want us to walk away from this horrible moment in American History with is this idea that the pandemic is what destroyed donald trump ees presidency. Right before the new year, we impeached this president and went to christmas. He was indicted in the trial but not convicted, obviously and then we went to the new year and we were worried about war with iran. I mean, i dont think that this presidency has been particularly solid. I would like to have a little less anxiety but at this particular moment, this is the culmination of the president s incompetence and on full display in the worstcase scenario. So what i think Going Forward is joe biden needs im glad to see him outside modelling the mask wearing because it i think the mask wearing is more than just im a tough guy, you know, and im not going to wear a mask thing. I dont think its so much that. I think it actually has to do with the fact that donald trump cannot admit when he is wrong and that is a quality that we need in a successful president. We need a president who is goin. Joe biden modelling mask wearing because thats the only thing that is going to ensure that we do not have a second wave that is worse than the current wave because were not in the second wave yet. My dad is a scientist and talks about the fact we cant jump ahead and talk about the current upticks in certain parts of the country like in alabama as if thats part of a second wave because were very much still dealing with the initial impact of this virus. Lets take a look at something that donald trump said on april 10th, april 10th about the coronavirus and about the number of deaths that we are approaching tonight. Lets listen to this. Well see what it ends up being but it looks like were headed to a number substantially below the 10,000, that would 0,e the low mark. There will be a biden tv ad at some point that rattles off every one of these trump statements about the numbers when he said we had 15 cases and we were going to go to zero. He kept coming out with and attaching himself to specific kn number predictions like that that look pretty dark when you look at them tonight. Well, its just so stupid on his part. You know, anybody should know that you want to under promise and over deliver so that if he had said look, we could have 300,000 deaths and then it comes in at 150, then he looks better. What hes trying to do is instead of, you know, dealing in an up front way with the situation as it is, hes trying to turn it into another kind of statistic to normalize it so essentially say look, we have a lot of deaths from auto accidents. He started with the flu. He wants to make it something like, you know, its just part of American Life. And so its really up to all of the rest of us and the press to make sure that we memorialize, not normalize. We actually put markers down. These markers, this branding of the utter failure in february, march, april and now may, it doesnt happen by itself and this is part of the blocking and tackling of politics, so im reminded of in my research for a book i wrote about Franklin Roosevelt, Everybody Knows about herbert hoovers, the central park. They were called hoovervilles, an effective way of roosevelt pushing hoover out of office in 1932. That didnt just come up out of nowhere. That was the creation of the Democratic National committee, and they threw a lot of things against the wall before hoovervilles stuck. I think biden is off to a good start with golf, but it has to be just one of the first of many, many attack lines because, you know, as you know better than anybody, lawrence, politics and bean bag, you got to stay on the offensive all the way from now until the election. I guess one of my worries, a little bit about biden is i want him to be a little more realistic. Want him to go after trump a little harder and i think it will pay off for him if he does. David, when you look at the polling numbers, its hard to see what the Biden Campaign is doing wrong. It doesnt matter what they would be doing wrong. Years and years ago, i was tracking a senior politician in the company of a loud mouth junior politician running against an incokucomeincome. He said stop talking all the time. Two questions, youre not a couck. This will be a referendum on the Trump Presidency and well have 20 to 30 Million People out of new york in novemb work in november in the best, best circumstances. The question for people around biden and soon for all of us, what will the future of the country be like . Its not like trump voters are going to go away. Its not like its going to be easy to change their minds about things. How do you build a political system a third of the country is able to do less damage and how do you begin to renew the bonds in a way you betwdwigin to find commonalities between the alienated 30 and the majority that lives in the most dynamic areas of the country. Thank youall for joining our discussion and coming up later in the hour, we have a very special last word tonight. You will hear someone sing who you have never heard sing at the end of this hour and coming up, many of the questions that you sent us about the coronavirus, about how to keep yourself safe and keep your family safe this summer, youre going to get your answers. Laurie garrett will join us. Im told her camera is working. She will join us to answer your questions, next. Ng she will join us to answer your questions, next. So you only pay for what you need [squawks] only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Your cells. Trillions of them. 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On twitter we asked for your questions about the medical and social impacts of the coronavirus and how thats affecting you and to get your answers, were joined now for those answers by Laurie Garrett. Shes a politzer prize winning reporter covering global pandemics and the msnbc science contributor. Laurie, thank you very much for joining us. Im glad we got your camera working. I wasnt going to be able to answer these questions without you. So lets start with this first question from delia. She says, do you have serious concerns after observing the activities this weekend that we could have a coronavirus second wave all over the country or some hot spots with uncontrolled spread . Yes. I am concerned. I am seeing all kinds of images and frankly, i see behaviors right here in new york that make me very, very anxious. Im worried that well, let me put it this way. I was in the ebola epidemic, of course, in 2014 in west africa and i atetended Church Services in liberia. Ebola is a lot less contagious than this covid virus, a lot less contagious. And yet, in liberia, people went to church but understood you entered one person, then another person, not a crowd going in. You sat 12 feet away from each other in the pews and you staggered in the pews. Everybody had sanitizer. This is in liberia. And i look at the images from this weekend all over the United States and i see behaviors that no one in liberia would have been doing in the middle of an ebola epidemic. To see crowds gathering, shaking hands, you know, high fiving each other, sharing drinks in a pool, hanging out in ways that just obviously put them at risk of acquiring an airborne virus from another person, a contact virus from another person its just appalling to me and it means that people really dont understand that we are walking steak. We are meat on wheels for a virus and theyre just covid virus is looking for another happy Hunting Ground and were making it very easy for this virus. Lets go to the another question. This is a practical question. I need to travel from washington to arizona in july for family medical urgency. I am planning on driving. Is it safe to stay at hotels for two nights along the way and then isolate in an airbnb when i get there . So a lot of companies are going to Great Lengths to demonstrate they have sanitized their facilities, theyve made it possible for you to go through all the check in and the check out and everything without any physical contact with another human being. Theyre trying very hard to convince you that they will make it very safe. And without specifically going in and inspecting what each individual hotel is doing and what the nature is of the precautions that theyre taking, i cant give you the kind of assurance on a specific level. What i would say generally is that it still is risky to travel. And its probably still best to avoid it, if possible. You say you have a medical emergency that requires your travel, then i would say all right, but lets be sure that you minimize all form of contact with strangers and thats not just when you reach your hotel but across your travels. As you reach your destination, just tremendous caution. Well, laurie, youve kind of answered the next question in what youve just said but this question is worth asking because i get this from people all the time. It says what precautions should people be taking in airports and on airplanes right now asking for a friend who intendes to go on vacation with her extended family next month. Well, depending on where you live and where youre planning to fly to, a month might buy us a fair amount of additional safety. But thats not necessarily an absolute and there certainly are parts ocho tf the country that still just Getting Started in the first wave of this pandemic and certainly locations around the world where the pandemic is just starting to take off. Consider the situation for example in brazil and russia. But lets assume youre staying inside the United States and going from one place to another where the epidemic is roughly the same stage. Then again, the Airlines Just like hotels are doing Everything Possible to convince you that they have sanitized, that theyve changed the way theyre operating. Theyre not going to jam you in shoulder to shoulder, thigh to thigh with strangers. Well see. I should caution that dr. Joseph fair, a good friend of mine and friend of msnbc acquired infection of covid, just recently got out of hospital after a long difficult bout with the disease and he thinks he acquired it through his eyes on a flight and, of course, the fluids of your eyes can indeed absorb viruses and you can be infected through your eyes so doctors that treat covi did pd patients wear very tight goggles and leave incidents on their cheeks at the end of a shift. This is tough. I personally would not at this time get on an airplane. Lets do one more before we go to a break here. This is a question that says the social impact i find hard to grasp, will we ever be able to return to mass shared experiences like sporting events, movies, concerts, et cetera . Is this going to be similar to a post 9 11 where the world we knew was dramatically different . I really appreciate this question because ive put eight years of work into a book called i heard the sirens scream that documented the way 9 11 changed the way we live in america and not just 9 11 but the anthrax mailings that came on the heels of the 9 11 attacks and i think we are going to go through far more profound change that will affect much more of our lives than did 9 11. 9 11 lets remember really two places were hard hit and then fortunately, in pennsylvania a relatively unpopulated location. In this case, everywhere in the world is hit at the same time. Every human being on the planet is facing some degree of risk and threat simultaneously. When 9 11 happened, it urged a tremendous economic catastrophe but nothing compared to what were going through now and what were going to face. And of course, 9 11 and the anthrax attacks constituted basically three months of difficulty for direct threat for americans particularly in new york and washington. This is only at its beginning and we will be experiencing rounds of infection and of threat and concern all over the world for at least another three years. So i think that the level of change that were going to experience in everything, in how we view the arts, what is entertainment, what is going out for a meal, what constitutes necessary travel, essential travel . Constitutes okay, i can do it at home or okay, i can go to the office . All of this is going to get completely reconsidered, rethought and frankly, whatever conclusions we reach by july will change by october and perhaps again by next april. And so we must all have somehow the where with all within us to be resilient, to adapt to constant new information, new changes, whatever are the absolutes you hear about this virus today and about the risks for today, you must be prepared for new understanding, deeper innovation, deeper science that gives you yet another, you know, permutation of concern, another way of viewing the problem. And i would just add one other thing. I think that we all have to be careful not to be overly persuaded by what wall street wants. The virus is not wall street, and wall street is not the virus. All right. Were going to squeeze in a quick break here and laurie, when we come back, well have more viewer questions for you but well begin with my first question, why do you put a threeyear frame on the challenge were currently facing and the way were facing it. Well start with that when we come back after this break. Well be back with Laurie Garrett. R this break well be back with Laurie Garrett. Ects. Weve seen you doing your part. So, farmers will keep seeing you through. With fifteenpercentreduced personal auto premiums and immediate savings through our signal app, which gives a discount for safe driving. And then well do the next thing, and the thing after that, until this is another thing weve seen and done. If you have a garden you know, weeds are low down little scoundrels. Draw the line with roundup. The sure shot wand extends with a protective shield to target weeds precisely and kill them right down to the root. Roundup brand. Trusted for over 40 years. I am totally blind. And non24 can make me show up too early. Or too late. Or make me feel like im not really there. Talk to your doctor, and call 8442342424. And were back with Laurie Garrett answering your questions about the coronavirus. Laurie garrett is of course, a politzer prize winner. Let me go back to something you said before the commercial break, which is you put a threeyear time frame on what you described as this kind of challenging world were living in now before we get to the post coronavirus world, whatever thats going to be. What is your why do you have a threeyear time frame on this . Lawrence, three years is my best case scenario. Not mycase scenario. It will come three years to have vi viable vaccine, mass production, get it out there and deal with the resistance against vaccination and deal with the questions associated with decisions about who should have access to it, where the priority should be and keep in mind, if we went on the hyper speed timetable that the white house is now pushing, as one very dear friend of mine is one of the great vaccine experts on earth put it, oh, rushing a vaccine to be distributed across america just before the election, what could go wrong . And i mean, really is amazing that were going at this speed with the leading candidates for rapid vaccine use being of a type never previously used, not only in human beings but in animals. One is mrna based vaccine and another is a dna based. Both nuclaic acids. Im told one has to be stored on dry ice, not just a cold chain, not just a refrigerator, dry ice because its so unstable. We could be rushing into a real mess. Meanwhile, i think in reality, if we want true safety profiles, if fda doesnt get pressured by the white house to give the green light on something that is inadequately tested, both for its effectiveness and safety, then we could be out to this Time Next Year before we really are even thinking about vaccinating people outside of test subjects and we would only begin to be receiving longterm test results on our initial volunteers who went through phase three test trials. Lets go to another viewer question. This is from sid. It says given the importance of accurate reporting, can a different reporting mechanism be established more specifically keeping it in scientific circles, by passing political players and use this data to help find answers and or solutions to the fact that black people are impacted at three times the rate . This is such an important question, lawrence, because it goes to the heart of every single problem we have right now with this epidemic. Its about trust. Do we trust the data . Do we trust the policy decisions . Do we trust advice handed down by the president , by the cdc, by our governor, by our mayor . Who do we trust . At the core of that is do we trust the numbers . Somebody giving us at least the straight how many got hospitalized yesterday . How many have died . How many have recovered . Is t what is the rate of infection in my community . Percentage of my friends and neighbors might be carrying this virus . How dangerous is it to be around them if they are . We need solid basis of trust in order for people to make the kinds of decisions that really matter and in particular, when we see a racial divide as we do quite acutely, quite acutely with covid19 right now its latinos, native americans and after condition americans are all at higher risk of both infection and more importantly, of death if infected and a lot of different theories have been put out. A lot of different ideas about why this is so but we dont have any real definitive solid Scientific Answers about why its so. Theres just a lot of people leaping to their, you know, boiler plate issues in national politics. I have consistently pointed out that one of the, really, the only factor that coincides 100 with likelihood to succumb to coronavirus is a history of improperly treated or untreated hypertension, high Blood Pressure, and if you have high Blood Pressure, youre at great risk of a fatal outcome. Well, high Blood Pressure runs in precisely those three groups, african americans, native americans and latinos. Laurie garrett, thank you very much for joining us. We have a stack of questions we havent gotten to. Well get to them in another hour on another night, thank you. When we come back, as we wonder when we will ever get to the other side of this coronavirus story . Historian john will us to consider why history gives us hope. John mechum is next. Hope john mechum is next. So you only pay for what you need [squawks] only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. I want to be a welreal tattoo artist. Scott did this. Is that a cocker spaniel . No, thats my daughter. You dont get to act crazy your whole life just cause dad died, ok. Your dad was a hero. And heros are necessary. [ cheering and singing ] i feel like everybodys always disappointed in me. Thanks for listening, youre one of the few people who treat me like a person. Youre welcome. But if you look to the land, its a whole different story. From farms to backyards, wheels are turning. Seeds are being planted. Animals are getting fed. And grass is growing. And families are giving their all to the soil because no matter how uncertain things get, the land never stops. So to all those linked to the land, we say thank you. Were here for you because we all run together. The Great Depression, world war ii, the poll owio epidemic, 1918 influenza pandemic, the American Life was changed by each of those unprecedented events. Politzer prize winner and author john meacham is viewing the pandemic through the lessons of these events and finding hope through examples of american political leadership, scientific ingenuity and resilience in his new pod cast hope through history. Joining us now is politzer prize winning historian and msnbc contributor john meacham. Hes the author of the pod cast hope through history. The title is perfect. Its something i attempt to do occasionally on this program. Im glad it is now finally a formal course that we can all take on our iphones. Where do you begin in your lessons of hope through history on this memorial day weekend as we approach 100,000 deaths from coronavirus . As bleak and difficult as this moment is, were a lot of us are still here. We still believe in the promise of america, which is that the sentence that Thomas Jefferson wrote in june of 1776 on a desk made by an enslaved person so you didnt have to look hard for irony in American History, all men were created equal. The country is strongest and come to the moments we celebrate and commemorate when we more broadly apply the implications of that sentence. So there is still an enormous legacy that is living and breathing that we have to defend and perpetuate. It is incredibly difficult, and my only argument is that its always been incredibly difficult, and if we look back we fall pray to a kind of narcissim, which is that somehow or another the problems of the past, the problems of jamestown, the problems of the revolution, the problems of the 1790s, the first president who was threatened with inpeachment was George Washington in 1795. You know, we are the beneficiaries of generation upon generation of sacrifice and resilience and memorial day is obviously set aside for a particular kind of common ration for the people that gave the last full measure of devotion. Lets not look back and think you know what . They had it easier. Our problems are uniquely oppressive because it doesnt do justice to what they fought for and what they fought against and it creates a sense of narcissim on our problem, about our problems and if we cant look back and learn, what is the data set in history . What kind of social science is used except the past to figure out what we can do to move forward . There is so much just in the fdr years, which i know youve written a book about. When you look at the Great Depression and Franklin Roosevelt comes into office as the president who has to try to deal with this and people really did not know what tools to use. He and others in the administration went to work trying to figure out what those tools were and how to do it. They were confronted with something no other policy makers had been confronted with before. Right. All the banks were closed, right . There was a run on the banks. There was a bank holiday that fdr declared almost immediately that was the first action of the first 100 days and it was a sense that we had to have what fdr had called a spirit of bold persistent experimentation. If we try a method, if it fails, admit it frankly and try Something Else but above all, try something. That was the roosevelt insight. But nobody knew if any of it was going to work. The line we all remember, right, is the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. Name is unreasoning fear that paralyzes our best efforts and converts advance into retreat. Fascinating, isnt it, he used the word paralyzed because he himself overcome paralysis. Thats the line we remember. The line that got the biggest cheer on march 4th, 1933 was when he said i might require wartime like executive powers as if we had been invaded by a foreign faux and the crowd roared and mrs. Roosevelt wrote in her diary that night it chilled her to the bone because it felt the people might be ready for a dictator. In the 1930s, Democratic Capitalism was very much until the dock. There was no guarantee it would survive the decade, and roosevelt basically by insisting that the american experiment was not going to end on his watch, very much the same way Winston Churchill nine years later would say british freedom is not going to end on my watch. He called on what lincoln called our better angels. Our spirit of generosity and enabled us to stagger through that decade. Lets not be sentimental. We cant be thsentimental. The Great Depression lasted until the beginning of the second world war. But he put but he put the public sector, he put the government at the center of the fight and redefined the relationships between the individual and the state in a way that has shaped our politics ever since. You can argue with the specifics of what he did, but fundamentally nobody really doubted that frankly roosevelt had the american experiment in mind and the endurance of that as his main goal. Jon meacham, thank you very much for joining us tonight. The podcast is hope through history history. Its on my phone. You should get it on yours. And, jon, join us whenever you can to give us some hope through history. We really appreciate it. Thanks, lawrence. Thank you. And when we come back, a very special last word in song to commemorate this memorial day. Personal auto premiums. Learn more at libertymutual. Com covid19. [ piano playing ] so heres to the strong, who trust in our performance and comfortable, longlasting protection. Because your strength is supported by ours. Depend. The only thing stronger than us, is you. Unlike ordinaryrength iwmemory supplementsr . Neuriva has clinically proven ingredients that fuel 5 indicators of brain performance. Memory, focus, accuracy, learning, and concentration. Try neuriva for 30 days and see the difference. Its just that its. Lavender, yes it is. Old spice, its for men. But i like the smell of it. [music playing] on this memorial day, the last word goes to bob kerrey, who was awarded the highest military decoration that exists, the medal of honor in 1970. Bob kerrey was a navy seal who lost a leg in vietnam. He was elected governor of nebraska before he ran for the United States senate and won in 1988. On that Election Night with five of his navy s. E. A. L. Teammates on the stage with him, bob kerrey ended his victory speech with a song that was written during the vietnam war looking back at the devastation of world war i through the eyes of an australian soldier with a message for all of us about all wars. That does go like this. When i was a young man, i carried me pack and lived the free live of the rover from the murrays green basin to the dusty outback i waltzed my matilda all over then in 1915 my country said son its time to stop ram blinn, theres work to be done they gave me a tin hat and a gun and sent me away to the war and the band played waltzing matilda as our ship pulled away from the key and the flag waving and tears, we sailed off to gallipoli how will i remember that terrible day, the bloodstains and the water and how we were butchered like lambs to the slaughter he chased us with bullets and shells. And in five minutes blood, he kicked us all to hell nearly chased us clear back to australia and the band played waltzing matilda and we stopped to bury our slain the turks buried theirs, and we buried ours and we started all over again. For ten weary weeks we kept ourselves alive in a mad world of blood, dealt, and fire for ten weary weeks i kept myself alive while around men the corpses piled higher then a shell knocked me ass over ed and when i awoke in my hospital bed, i saw what it had done and wished i were dead never knew there were worse things than dying and the band played waltzing matilda joekz around the green bush far and near a man needs both legs, no more waltzing matilda for me they collected the wounded, the legless, the maimed the poor wounded heroes. The legless, the armless, the blind, the insane and shipped us all back to australia and our ship pulled into the key, i looked at down where my legs used to be and thanked christ there was nobody waiting for me to mourn and to grieve and to pity and the band played waltzing matilda as it carried us down the gangway and nobody cheered, they just stood and stared and turned all their faces away and now every april i sit on my porch and watch the parade pass before me i watch my old comrades how proudly they march renewing old dreams and lost glory the old man launched proudly all bent stiff and sore, the poor tired old men from a forgotten war and the young people ask what are they marching for . And i ask myself the same question. And the band played waltzing matilda, and the old man answer the call year by year, their numbers get fewer someday no one will march here at all waltzing matilda waltzing matilda who will go waltzing matilda with me and their ghosts can be heard as they pass by the bill i bo bong who will go waltzing with me well waltz tonight and move tomorrow. Thanks very much. Bob kerrey, who im very proud to call a friend, gets tonights last word. Ari melber is up next. Good memorial day to you. I am ari melber and we have a special show for you right now as america honors those lost to wars fought often far from home, we are also honoring the nearly 100,000 american whos have now died right here at home from this virus. Its larger than the american death toll in the korean, vietnam, and gulf wars combined. Today the president was at Arlington National cemetery while the first time in months, vice President Biden and his wife jill made an appearance paying respects at a war memorial