Transcripts For MSNBCW Up With David Gura 20190713

To told me they were being treated well. Louisiana is bracing for Tropical Storm barry. The storm expected to make landfall this morning, but its not the wind that is of the greatest concern. The real danger in this storm was never about the wind, anyway, its always been about the rain and that remains a very significant threat. I sit down with senator and democratic president ial candidate Kirsten Gillibrand as they kicks off trumps broken promises to her in pittsburgh, pennsylvania. He is so arrogant, so selfcentered, he would never admit hes wrong, ever. Its saturday, july 13. Just a couple days ago the president had a conference at the white house on social media in which he seemed confused about his fluctuating twitter numbers. It goes up, then they take it down. Does anybody know what im talking about with this . Have you tried unplugging it and plugging it back in . Up with me this morning, clint watts. Hes a former fbi special agent. Now hes a distinguished fellow at the Foreign Policy institute. Christine quinn is the vice chair of the Democratic Party. She was the speaker of the new york city council. Lets begin with immigration this morning. Thousands of families across the country are on edge this morning, worried about the i. C. E. Raids President Trump has promised, targeting immigrants who have been given final deportation orders in at least nine major u. S. Cities. The government will move those men, women and children to Detention Centers in texas and pennsylvania, facilities not unlike the ones Vice President mike pence toured yesterday in mcallen, texas. The designated reporter traveling with the Vice President wrote in part, the stench was por rhorrendous. The cages were so crowded it would have been impossible for the men to lie on the concrete. The men wanted to brush their teeth. They looked dirty. The president tweeted this, quote, the dhs facility in mcallen is a prime example of why we need to secure our borders. The facility is overcrowded and our system is overwhelmed. It is time for democrats in congress to step up doorks their jobs, and end this crisis. Next week, many of them have already taken trips to Detention Centers in recent days. There is no need for us to overcrowd and to detain and underresource. Children being separated from their parents in front of an american flag. We do have a crisis at our border. It is one of morality. The Trump Administration dead set on sending a hatefilled message. I want to read a little more. They saw 84 men sleeping inside fences on concrete with no pillows or mats. They hadnt shouwered in weeks, wanted toothbrushes. Fed. Pence said they could brush and shower regularly. Many have not showered for 10 to 20 days. This is an incremental story. It parallels one we heard about sexual abuse. What does joshs description tell you about this story . It tells me this is a crisis that is in no way diminishing, even though you say its incremental, its bit by bit. As the debate continues on twitter, are these concentration camps, what are we doing as a country, the administration continues to keep pace with its actions. Even though Congress Gave them almost 5 billion recently to address the humanitarian needs of the people trying to cross the border, the rhetoric is still the same out of the administration, the actions being taken by i. C. E. And custom Border Patrol are still the same. So despite the outcry weve been seeing based on these sorts of images, especially from democrats and people on the left, there hasnt been any sort of corresponding change in the actions of the administration to coursecorrect. So they seem pretty content with things the way theyre going. Christine quinn, the president said yesterday in comments that he wishes he could go there, he would like to see this as well. What do you make of the photo op, so much as there was one, the Vice President going there and saying, god bless to the children whom he met there and saying it was heartbreaking to hear from children. What is he talking about . Its heartbreaking to hear from children you put in cages. Its heartbreaking to hear from children for whom you have caused great additional trauma in their life, who you have filled with fear. I mean, the man is the ultimate no surprise, but it bears repeating hypocrite. Hes created those situations and now hes, you know, blaming the democrats for it. And lets step back for a second. I used to be an elected official. When you go do these visits, lets not fool ourselves. The places you go are spitshined. You go visit a park, they pick up the garbage before you get there. Nobody thinks its not like that. That was the best mens facility they could find . God help us all. The best was it . Think about it. Tomorrow there is going to be i. C. E. Raids in nine cities, including new york city. They are predicting they could arrest and detain 2 million more people. Now, put aside for a second the outrage of picking these people up. I run a network of homeless shelters. Were terrified i. C. E. Will show up at our door but were prepared. Where are we going to put 2 million more people . Where are you going to put them . Theyre targeting families, based on some media reports. Go talk to those children when youve ripped them from the cities theyve known. It is a disgrace and he added to that disgrace yesterday. Cliff, i want to talk about that point. The i. C. E. Raids, the president started those before, he postponed them for a couple weeks. Here we are again, and you have members of the administration who say theyre not going to weigh in on whats happening because they like to keep things secret, when the president has been doing it time and time again. You throw these things out there, use it like a chess piece, and at the same time hes projecting toughness without having to do anything, which is a pretty trumplike approach in terms of how he handles the media. What is consistent with this, when you look at whats going on down at the bored we are these facilities with every single visit is what the Trump Administration does. Pushes a policy with no actual plan, right . This was completely predictable just like these raids will be. There will be thousands of people, they have nowhere to put them, they stress the system, it creates a disaster, then they have to deal with it publicly, then they try to push back on the democrats, oh, you need to solve this, right . I think its a huge opportunity in a way for the democrats as a party to say, this is what we want to do, this is what we want to carve out. However, that opportunity, i feel, is being squandered. Some of the rhetoric i hear is we need to disband whole parts of the government. Having worked in the government, its not only disrespectful to government workers who have been hearing that who have been serving their whole life. I. C. E. Was create after 9 11 because the whole system failed to do its job then. So i think somehow they have to navigate a better message about what they actually want the outcome to be, and i think its there. I think whats happening right now, particularly with the president , is going to exacerbate this problem. Its going to make it much, much worse. If he does those raids starting tomorrow, those facilities are going to be even more crowded. Quickly. From working with moms and children in our shelters and talking to staff the past couple days, theyre terrified. And we dont know who is documented and undocumented, but many of the people who are also terrified, we believe, are fully documented. So what theyre doing, even if they pull it back at the last minute, which i doubt but could happen with this president , he has caused so much fear, terror and anxiety, in my case, amongst people, and i think in most cases, who have no other choice. Ill comment on something clint brought up here, and that is you can criticize the agency. When you look at how much this administration talks about immigration, this part of the government is so illequipped from a managerial perspective. We have an active Homeland Security, we have an acting female administrator. Well talk more in the show about how many vacancies there are. That the president wants to talk about it, its woefully understaffed, and i dont know how they function. I need a flow chart to see who is in charge of the dhs these days. Theyve moved around the heads of cdp and i. C. E. And just shuffled them around so much that ive lost track of who is running what. And all of them acting. Nobody has been authorized fully by the senate to do many of the things theyre doing. Thats been pushing on what i think a lot of people have called one crisis but its really two. Two pressure points on the system both by people coming to the border, seeking asylum, which, again, is legal. Fleeing violence, poverty, et cetera, from central america. And on the other hand, people who are already in this country trying to be forced out. And those twin pressure points onto the system have strained it to an actual breaking point. This is speculation for me, but its hard to not think this is almost what they want, the ma administration. They want this buckling of the system so they can say, look, everything is broken. We have to take many more drastic steps before we can get to the point where we can feel secure as a country. Christine, lastly, to you. You talk about how youre prepared for this to happen. Hayes is talking about this pressure point, this tension. There is another one i think would work as well and thats between local governments and the federal governments as well. You see this across the country where its purportedly going to take place. Theyre prepared to push back against the federal government. That tension is probably good for them as well. I assume politically because thats the only lens they look through. I applaud mayors like Lori Lightfoot in chicago. She has stood up and said, i. C. E. , cbd, you get noa access to chicago databases. Thats why local government matters, because its our best offense when the government acts in an oppressive and outrageous way. I applaud mayors who are standing up, and i applaud the networks on sunday. Let me just say its wild how this has flipflopped over the years, and the pressure of which party is, oh, the local government is here to protect you versus the federal government is coming to take away your rights. Its interesting to see this dynamic in play. Clint, i just want to get your perspective. Does this lead to more . In other words, were talking about the Political Tension this could create as well. Do you see this as a new tack the administration will have . How are they viewing this in the longterm perspective . Its to add pressure, and its pressure through show. Were going to hear a lot about these raids tomorrow, and they will do some, but it will ultimately come back to band width and resources. Election security, this immigration border detention issue, and now weve got a Tropical Storm hurricane and probably many more to come behind it, all of dhs who has no one in charge. When you start to look at what can they really execute in terms of these plans, it falls short of whats out there. Ultimately it comes down to, how do we resolve this, and liked to see some sort of strategy. Other th other than Julian Castro, ive not heard of a plan coming forward. My colleagues have been like, what do they want us to do, then . If thats not clear, youre going to lose a lot of the middle of people who are like, you know what, we do have to have Border Security because i was around on 9 11 and the single fail point we kept going back to was immigration. We got rid of the whole administration and turned it into i. C. E. There has to be a plan thats detailed, and i like that castro is putting some of it down there, but i feel like its coming to a head and i want the team to say, this is what our immigration strategy is. This is humane. This is how we handle the issue at the border. This is how we work with the courts in terms of asylum and refugee. Put it in advance of the twitter blowback. Mayor pete and others have been doing this as well, but as you say, Julian Castro the first with a plan on immigration. Alex acosta is out in fewer than 48 hours after his case with jeff epstein. The fallout and more, up ahead. Yo, jer we gotta get to the show. I was looking for a sign. Get on the bus. I need something to believe in. Throw my hands up to the ceiling. Oh sky wont you give me a sign. Tell me will the world one day ever be mine . Jeep wrangler. Freedom to do it all. gasp singsong budget meeting sweet. If you compare last quarter to this quarter. Various mmm. Its no wonder everything seems a little better with the creamy taste of philly, made with fresh milk and real cream. Keith used to be great to roadtrip with. But since he bought his house. Are you going 45 . Uh, yes. 55 is a suggestion. Its kind of like driving with his dad. What a sign, huh . Terry, can you take a selfie of me . Take a selfie of you . Yeah. Can you make it look like im holding it . He did show us how to bundle home and auto at progressive. Com and save a bunch of money. Oh, a plaque. He later navigated northward, leaving. Progressive cant protect you from becoming your parents. But we can protect your home and auto when you bundle with us. But we can protect your home and auto compare comcast business to your current provider. My Current Service provider does not provide half of what you provide. And to know that i could save money . Id be thrilled. This sounds like a whole business package, which would be incredible. So what are you guys waiting for . Lets do it. laughs comcast business gives you a full suite of products with great performance and value. Get fast, reliable internet on the nations largest gigspeed network for less than at t. Thats 120 dollars less a year. Better, faster. I mean sign me up. Comcast business. Beyond fast. This is up. Im david gura. The ambassador announced his resignation writing, quote, the Current Situation is making it impossible for me to carry out my role the way i would like. Although my posting is not due to end until the end of this year, i believe in the current circumstances the responsible course is to allow the appointment of a new ambassador. Alex acosta, the secretary of labor, faced criticism in the jeff epstein agreement, and for a while he was despondent. Prosecutors were willing to let mhim walk away with no jail time. We found this unacceptable and they became involved. Without the work of our prosecutors, epstein would have gotten away with that state charge. It seemed the labor secretary would not step down, and on friday, there was this surprise announcement. I do not think it is right and fair for this administrations Labor Department to have epstein as a focus rather than the incredible economy that we have today. And so i called the president this morning. I told him i thought the right thing was to step aside. Cabinet positions are temporary trusts. It would be selfish for me to stay in this position and continue talking about a case thats 12 years old rather than about the amazing economy we have right now. And so i submitted my rez i go nation to the president effective seven days from today, effective one week from today, earlier this morning. Joining clint hayes, let me lay this out. These are two men and one dealt with it one way and the other handed it the other way. I think the ambassador did the right thing. The things he said about President Trump turned out to be true. He tweeted about them, and there are many times the receiving country would like the sending country to send a different ambassador. Ive never heard of it done in this kind of public and rude and, frankly, crude way. The second point, of course, was the British Government kind of throu threw the ambassador under the bus, and i think the ambassador realized that and he realized it quickly, which i think is important in these matters. He just got up and said, im leaving, and i think that was the right call and perhaps secretary acosta should have considered that before he tried to hold onto his job for several days. And clint watts, on that point, the throwing under the bus when it comes to alex acosta happened a little late. He had an opportunity before that happened right, like it is a strange sequence of events. What i also found interesting, though, is we were talking before we came on, how this scenario was played out through the week which is a focus on acosta instead of the awful things in the epstein case, right . It has also distracted us into the administration. I like that hes moved because now we can get back to the real facts of the matter which is really rich people dodging our judicial system, really rich people dodging our elective system and averting democratic institutions. Thats what is significant in this, whether its acosta, trump. These are people who operate because they have lots of money, and they get to do what they want and circumvent the system. If that situation arose for anyone else in america, he still would be in jail and probably never would have been let go. This is a guy who was allowed to work all day long, have his own private security detail bizarre. It is beyond bizarre. There was a great piece to the point hes making here. It says, the issues raised by the epstein saga and the plea bargain that acosta agreed to are systemic, rather than partis partisan. They go to the heart of the american class system and the manner in which people of great wealth and high social standing. This goes to women. Theyre girls, theyre children. Their wellbeing, their innocence, their future was less important than rubbing elbows with this rich creep that the system gave more weight to his power than the innocence of children also has to be noted, because it speaks to the ongoing systemic sexism and mysogeny that is built into the institutions in america, particularly in the criminal justice system. Ambassador hill has a smaller clack now that this cabinet has gotten larger and larger. I dont think there is a constructive gaive and take tha he has with his cabinet members. Roberta jackson, the former ambassador to mexico was appointed in politico. He said, we have gotten to a point now where it would appear diplomats cannot report to their governments accurately in any way that is going to remain confidential, and thats the essence of diplomacy. Shes right. You need to have the expectation that its not leaked. I dont think the things he said about trump were national secrets. I think most people know that about President Trump and probably in whitehall and downing street, they knew it as well. He chose to send that in, and he sent it in to a very frought political system in the u. K. Where you have an acting prime minister, i guess, kind of taking a note from the trump cabinet. Nobody seems to have any jobs anymore. And so he knew that the likelihood of this getting leaked was fairly substantial. So you have to kind of weigh that. There have been plenty of times ive been out of post and someone comes in with a juicy telegram about the prime minister, corruption or whatever. And you have to wonder, do you want to send that out in your name with the expectation that someone doesnt like you by the way, when youre ambassador, there are always people back home who dont like you because they would have liked to have the job themselves, so you have to be careful when you send this stuff in. When you talk about President Trump in those he remembeterms, surprised if someone leaks it, especially with whats going on these days. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Hes from the university of denver. Bracing for impact, the state of emergency in the gulf as Tropical Storm barry prepares to make landfall. To make landfall crabfest is back at red lobster with 9 craveable crab creations. From the new ultimate crabfest trio with three kinds of wildcaught crab to the return of crab lovers dream grab your crab crew, hurry in or order it to go im david gura. We are back with breaking news as Tropical Storm barry intensifies. Alabama, louisiana and mississippi bracing. Its packing winds of 60 miles an hour. It will dump up to 20 inches of rain in some areas to go along with an already dajngerous stor surge. Bill karins is in the Weather Center here in new york. Water can come to you from multiple angles in a city surrounded by it. What are you seeing on the ground in blackmans parish . Im experiencing that water, skpaz you said, the storm isnt even here yet, but its already impacted several areas here in louisiana. Im going to ask my camera man to pan to my left just to get a glimpse of how the water is coming. The body of water is about threequarters of a mile to my left, and you can see the sheer force of the current. The wind is picking up. You can see there are houses that are going to be threatened by that storm surge, by that flash flooding, and again, thats why authorities are urging people to not be driving arou around. People tend to think, oh, the danger has passed us and we see many of them sort of going about their day. Thats not what authorities want to see. I want to show you these sandbags over here. Yesterday i was here with the National Guard as they were putting this temporary levee in place, but its going to do little for the current. I want to show you how fast its coming down. Over 200 yards or so to my right is a highway, the only highway in and out, highway 23. Thats likely to get flooded soon, leaving communities like these completely cut off and stranded. And david, already here in louisiana, about 50,000 customers without power this morning. David . Very quickly here, i wonder how much people are talking now about what happened 14 years ago where youre standing. So much investment has made fortifying the levees and the flooding systems around new orlea orleans. What are they saying about that as this approaches the gulf coast . Reporter its still very clear in peoples minds. I spoke to the National Guard, many of them born and bred in louisiana, and they told me, we do not take storms lightly here, especially slowmoving storms, because of what happened here in 2005. There is a levee system that cost millions of dollars that was put in place, especially in new orleans, but when you come to the other parishes like this one you see theyre still completely unprotected. Still a lot of danger that could be faced by these communities here, david. Well check in with her throughout the day. I know we were looking at how high the mississippi was going to get here as we look at the 20foot height of some of those levees. That was the bottom level we were concerned with. Originally the forecast was a 19foot crest this morning, but it happened that the river started going down last night about 10 00 p. M. They called it a crest and it was only 17 feet and everybody sighed a great sigh of relief. Now we have an update from the hurricane center. Were getting close to landfall. Were at 70 miles an hour maximum sustained winds now, so one tick higher and it will be a hurricane. One band of rain is up toward biloxi and mobile right now. Cluster storms off the coast will move onshore later today. That is the main event. That is the concern with flash flooding, how much damage will be done from it. This area of pink is a high risk of flash flooding. That means if you live in this area from baton rouge, from new orleans westward, from lafayette to mccomb, mississippi, you have flash flooding where you may need to seek higher ground. As far as the rainfall totals go, we still expect a widespread area of 5 to 10 inches of rain over the next few days, and there could be an isolated spot somewhere near baton rouge that could get up to 20 inches of rain. Now weve also increased to memphis, too. We had a ways to go with this storm. We always thought the rainfall would be the biggest problem when we got the allclear in new orleans, and now well watch it throughout the day. I go to pittsburgh for an interview with Kirsten Gillibrand of new york. She is struggling to break out in a crowded field. Is there a metric you look to where, if i dont hit this mark, im stepping back . I intend to be the nominee and i intend to beat President Trump. O beat President Trump. There will be a white flower for alzheimers first survivor. Join the fight at alz. Org walk. Were oscar mayer deli fresh your very first sandwich,m. Your mammoth masterpiece. And. Whatever this was. Because we make our meat with the good of the deli and no artificial preservatives. Make every sandwich count with oscar mayer deli fresh. Who used expedia to book the Vacation Rental which led to the discovery that sometimes a little down time can lift you right up. Expedia. Everything you need to go. Expedia. Na blend of quality probiotics. And fermented whole food botanicals, expertly curated to naturally support your gut health every day. Go with align whole food blend. From the pros in digestive health. Beauty editors have tried everything. In search of a whiter smile. Their choice . Crest 3d whitestrips. Our exclusive whitening formulation safely whitens 25 times better. For a noticeably whiter, smile. Trust americas 1 whitening treatment. Crest 3d whitestrips. Democratic candidate Kirsten Gillibrand took a tour, and the goal she said is to show that trump has not made good on those promises he made to voters in key states, States Barack obama won and donald trump won. There is another goal, to pull for a candidate at the bottom of the field. She and i met up in pittsburgh on the first day of the tour for lunch, yes, for some pastries afterward on the porch in chenley. Heres what she had to say in this edition of politicians in the pastry plate. The role he played in miami in the Jeffrey Epstein memory, alex acosta, said the world is different now than it was in 2008. Maybe the world is different for him because were now showing sexual predators accountable and are no longer brushing them under the rug. I will not vote for him again. I think he should resign and i think President Trump should ask for his resignation. But again, President Trump has over a dozen allegations of Sexual Assault against him directly, and he doesnt value women, and he doesnt take Sexual Violence seriously on any level. So im certainly not going to be holding my breath for trump to hold acosta accountable. There have been calls for him to resign, and it strikes me under any other president , the call would be for him to be fired or to ask the secretary for his resignation. What does that say to you about this administration, where we are as a country, as a body politic, that we have any faith in the president . I certainly have no faith in the president that holds someone who pushed sexual allegations under the rug, who clearly should not have been treated with such a light touch. Someone who has a record of trafficking minors and Sexual Assault. It is not something i can imagine anyone should have agreed to lighthanded plea deal. Thats the problem with President Trump. He doesnt value women. He doesnt take Sexual Assault seriously and he doesnt have a cabinet that represents the American People and our values. What would you say to somebody who looks at all of this surrounding Jeffrey Epstein, the way hes dealt with, and has no faith in the system itself . Youre a lawyer yourself, practiced law. There have to be people in this country who look at this as a closs a kohl loss collosal failure, to say the least. I would say if theyre tired of being lied to, if theyre tired of the greed and corruption that runs washington, support my campaign. What is the role your campaign plays in this campaign . What should we be talking about with the president . I think its important to address the lies he told the American People. A lot of people voted for him because they expected him to blow up the system, disrupt the system, but hes not. Its why im running my campaign on the importance of getting money in politics. You look at eric wal sweswal california and he decided to step out of the race. Is there an area you look to, if i dont get this mark, im going to step back . I intend to be the nominee and i intend to beat President Trump. I intend to bring this nation together. Ive been in politics long enough to know whats exactly the problem. I can see the greed, the corruption, the wrath thats metastasized over everything that should be getting done in washington thats not. I know i have the vision to actually solve these problems and ive had the experience the last 10 years listening to constituents, finding out what their biggest worries are and what actually helps them. Christine quinn, you have so much experience in politics. She went after working class voters left behind by President Trump early in the campaign. You heard her talk about women in that part of the interview as well. Who is the gillibrand constituency, as you see it . Part of her strategy is to reach out to women, theres no question about that, and not because shes a woman, because she has a long record of success with women issues. Its challenging with mayor pete running and others who have great lgbtq records, but she has been a fighter for the lgbtq community, dont ask dont tell, other issues, so thats a fair constituency for her to be going after. I think this working class focus is something a little more new for her and not something that ive seen on such a high level before, so it will be interesting to see what the tour brings. She talked about trump directly throughout that interview. What do you make of that . As she tries to set herself apart, there are those who dont want to be talking about trump all the time, they think hes a symptom more than a cause. Right. And id be more inclined to agree with them that trump himself is not the real issue here, that its, you know, a systemic problem, that its based on a bunch of different issues that have been a part of u. S. Politics for at least two decades now. I think its interesting that she is choosing, though, rather than going after more her compatriots in the democratic race, shes saying, im looking ahead to the general. She did not answer your question at all about is there a point at which youre thinking maybe ill pull back and drop off. At this point in the campaign you wouldnt expect her to answer that honestly, which im sure her campaign actually has. The democratic nominee from my point of view at this point is going to be someone who has their own, like, base constituency but also manages to pull from others. And until she manages to loop in some of those other core constituencies, shes not going to be able to break through, i think. Clint, shes someone who said she would like to be talking about Foreign Policy. Shes on Armed Services and i just wonder if maybe stepping back a little bit here, its not something thats been talked about a lot in this campaign so far. Yes, this entire fleet of candidates, from my perspective, is weak on National Security, Homeland Security issues. If you rewind four years ago, we were talking about isis. It doesnt even come up anymore. We were talking about russia. Thats totally gone amongst the candidates. And i dont hear them sort of advocating the vision for what the future is, which they could. I think its a real opportunity if they can pivot toward that. What is the posttrump era, whether its two years or six years from now, in terms of National Security . It will not go back the same. I actually strongly disagree with former Vice President biden who thinks were going to imagimagically recreate nato an. And be trustworthy again. I think it is a way to stay the vision for the country. Im not seeing any advocacy issues that seem solid. We talked about those i. C. E. Raids we mentioned at the top of the show that the president promised will take place this weekend. Up next, lawmakers finally getting a briefing on National Security ahead of 2020. Many of them saying theyre worried. G theyre worried. The brighteyed, the brave, the visionaries. Where challenges exist, youll find them. At citi, we empower people who are out to change the world. Because tomorrow belongs to those who welcome it with open arms. Citi. Welcome whats next when you have nausea, heartburn, indigestion, upset stomach, diarrhea try new pepto liquicaps for fast relief and ultracoating. Nausea, heartburn, indigestion, upset stomach, diarrhea get powerful relief with new pepto bismol liquicaps. Theres brushing and theres oralb power brushing. Oralb just cleans better. Its the one inspired by dentists. With the round brush head. Oralbs gentle rounded brush head removes more plaque along the gumline. For cleaner teeth and healthier gums. Oralb. Brush like a pro. v. Especially when your easily distracted teenager has the car. The worst. At subaru, were taking on distracted driving [ping] with sensors that alert you when your eyes are off the road. The allnew subaru forester. The safest forester ever. I am concerned that President Trump hasnt done enough. We read lots of stories about he wouldnt even take his Homeland Security seriously when she wanted to talk about voting security. Thats a problem when you have a president that puts his head in the sand or runs away from tough facts and real realities. This is up. Im david gura. A day after lawmakers were briefed on Election Security by intelligence officials on the active threats that are out there, that briefing was a long time coming. Director of National Intelligence dan learn from mistakes of the 2016 election when the Obama Administration was flatfooted in their response to russian interference. So here we are. Clint watts knows something about this. The author of messing with the enemy. Lets start with the importance of having this briefing. It foinlly happened, what does that signify to you. The fact that republicans perhaps under some duress were exposed to these intelligence reports. They might want to know what could happen to them if theyre running for election. Its insane we havent passed basic laws, the honest ads act which says whatever we do in print, radio and television were going to do on social media. Facebook has implemented this. Google as well. Whats the argument for not doing it . No idea. Other than, the democrats pushed it. You know like thats, its so hyperpartisan. Election integrity. That we can verify the authenticity of votes so we have confidence in our institutions and democracy, thats the longrun goal of russia in terms of subverting our democracy, which now many people dont want to know if their vote kouths. Who is against this . I cant articulate it. Counts. Who is against this . I cant articulate it. When you look at the threats that would have been discussed, how is it different than 2016 . During the Obama Administration that year of 2016, they didnt understand it until it was way too late. It was way too late to react on these things. If you want to protect against hacks, hacks occur this year, 201, going into 2020, so they can dump it in the election cycle. Those things have to happen now. I am impressed with the agencies, despite having any leadership at all inside the white house, any sort of coordination, moving forward and doing good things, director wray, the Foreign Influence Task force. General nakasone, he has moved cyber further in a year than the ten years before in terms of cyber. A lot of things are going on, but im worried, its still not coordinated. You watch mcconnell, injecting fear, saying you cant trust the federal government. What is he talking about . He is the federal government. He should be helping. You agree with that . I do. Whats wild to me, kind of galling if you look back at 2016, as the Obama Administration which was caught flatfooted and did not understand what was playing out in front of them. When they did figure it out, they went to the senate and said we want, to the leadsers of the house and senate. Said we want to push this out there, we want to let the people know that russia is trying to interfere in our election and Mitch Mcconnell said do not make this partisan. Do not try to go after our nominee in this way. So the administration backed off. So they issued a state of release saying russia is attempting to influence the election. That statement dropped on the same day as the access hollywood footage dropped. It was wild to see that they had no sense of what was happening. The fact that we have not put into place the security, the fact that we still dont make it mandatory to have paper ballots as a backup to these electronic records, that just doesnt make any sense in 2019. Can i go to that quote from steve scalise, the gentleman from louisiana. It evinces this unwillingness to look at the present or look forward. Here he is talking about what happened under president obama to both of your points, worth talking about. There is this inability to look at the present and lock ahead. Theres this almost republican rule that when something is not going well, that you could as, as the republicans be addressing with the president , blame obama. When you want to just distract, blame obama. We see it over and over again. Theres such hyperpartisanship. But added to that i think the republicans almost live under a gag order that if you talk about hacking, if you talk about cybersecurity, you are insulting the president. Youre eroding the authenticity of his election. Even though it should be eroded because its inauthentic, were planning for the future so nothing happens again. Rubio is the worst example. Rubio i dont is someone who got trolled going into super tuesday and it probably affected his outcome against trump. To hear him this week go maybe we dont need this, come on, man . Are we trying to lose or what . Let me give you 60 seconds. What would you say about Election Security going into 2020 . Number one thing. We have to have verifiable audit trails, paper ballot backups, it has to happen. If anything goes wrong. We dont have power cords that show up or theres a massive hacking attack we can say okay, who actually won the election . We can verify it to the American People, thats a longrun goal we have to make sure happens. The other part is in terms of influence and social media troll farm. Were doing good stuff there. Weve got to make the public aware of it. If theyre not aware of it, they can be duped again. Were in a better position now, but the influence part is still going on. Clint, great to see you as always. We have an update on Robert Muellers investigation, the chairman of the house intel and house judiciary committees announcing that the testimony has been delayed by a week to give the testimony more time. Bob mueller testified to schedule in public on wednesday july 24. Not this coming wednesday. Once again thanks to clint, hayes, christine as well. Stick with us today and come back tomorrow. Up on sunday starting at 8 00 here on msnbc. Up next, i. C. E. Officials getting ready to round up immigrants in cities across the country. We see video of migrants in cages and squalor. 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Holiday inn express. Were there. So you can be too. Well this is up, this was the scene in mcallen, texas as Vice President mike pence and his wife toured a migrant detention facility yesterday. According to the Washington Post. There were 400 men crammed into cages, no mats or pillows, with some sleeping on concrete. We read this as we see these images days after nbc news reported on an allegation of Sexual Assault at another facility and other acts of abuse by u. S. Border agents, this is the backdrop to nationwide raids that are reportedly set to begin tomorrow. I. C. E. Will target 2,000 families in nine u. S. Cities across the country including atlanta, new york, houston and san francisco. New orleans will be spared because the storm that community faces. The roundup could include collateral deportations. Authorities may detain immigrants who were on the scene even if they were not initial targets. President trump defended his plan to do this yesterday. At the white house. It starts on sunday, theyre going to take people out and bring them back to their countries. Or theyre going to take criminals out, put them in prison or put them in prison in the countries they came from. Were focused on criminals as much as we can. One sad irony is pointed out in the Washington Post. Immigration advocates have warned that mass arrests targeting families invariably would result in the separation of some children from their parents, as many immigrants families include u. S. Citizens and individuals in the country illegally. The raids are prompting outrage from democrats and local politicians, including the mayor of the city of atlanta. Im not talked to a single mayor who wants an immigration raid on their city. This has nothing to do with crime. Our crime numbers arent impacted by illegal immigrants. He should start by asking mayors of these cities how we feel about these raids. We dont need it and we dont want it. And thats where we begin this morning. Up with me this morning, eddie glaude, a harvard professor and jacky aleny is a reporter for the Washington Post and sadario covers congress. The president is doing this, the executives of the cities, largely dont want this to happen. Theyre making changes, making accommodations so it will affect as few people as possible. Describe the tension as weve seen it laid bare here. I mean its clear that what President Trump is doing is politically motivated. Hes throwing red meat to his base. Because hes targeting particularly democratic cities. In interesting sorts of ways. So it makes sense to me that, that the executives of these cities would, in some ways put up a wall. Try to put up a wall or barrier to what hes trying to do here. And lets be clear. I. C. E. Raids have happened, they happened under the Obama Administration. And they happened in these cities. I think part of whats, whats going on here at least with democratic mayors and the like is that theyre responding to the political, the political value that is being generated in this, right . So i wish they were as vocal in their opposition to this, when the Obama Administration was doing it. And now that we see donald trump doing it for cruelty sake. I give you a quote, david. As always George Elliott from janets remittance says cruelty like any vice requires no motive outside of itself. It only requires an opportunity. And the point about this is that the point of this policy is cruelty. Is cruelty. And so i think what were see something a reaction to that. Thats the point of the i wont make you do an elliott quote, but i will ask you about what your colleagues saw at this facility. You look at the pool report here, pull back the curtain here a little bit. Our reporter goes in a small group and shares things with everybody. Devastating stuff here. The images that he conveys to us, the row action that we saw from those detained to having press there, to having the Vice President there. Contrast that with what we heard from the president , remarking on how customs and Border Patrol love these people. These facilities are beautifully run. And pences first stop supported that hypothesis, thats the reason why a lot of democratic senators, all of them declined to attend the visit. They held it as a bipartisan trip even though most had publicly said they werent going to be attending until that very morning when they finally you know announced that no one was going to be going with them. I got a letter from a white house official who was upset with a story we published that morning saying we were wrong and followed it up with saying one democratic senator who had rsvpd yes had dropped out. The concern was that Border Patrol agents were going to clean this up and whitewash it and make it more palatable and support the president s repeated talking point that the facilities were taking care of these people. In the first facility that pence went to mcallen, that seems to be the case, the second one was heartwrenching as my colleague depicted. There was a horrendous smell. 400 men packed into a cage. No place to sleep and more importantly a lot of the men had said that they had been there for over 40 days. Which obviously is not our federal policy. You know, its, it was truly shocking and these images of these white men in blazers staring at all of these people who have been attempting to cross the border and not even talking to them or engaging them it was pretty startling. You know i had spoken with white house officials prior to this visit who said that it was the president s request to open this up and make it as the most transparent visit as possible. But as josh dossier noted he had a fight with the vps office in order to secure entrance to these facilities. He could only spend about 90 seconds there. Get us up to spoed on whats happening on capitol hill. How mayors are outraged, but when it was first teased or threatened by the president , there was a phone call that the House Speaker made to the president , pleading with him not to do this. There was a twoweek extension during which they were supposed to hammer something out that coincided with the congressional recess, so Nothing Happened here. Where does Congress Stand in light of this . Theres been powerful testimony in the last few days on capitol hill about this. There has. Maybe its cynical to look at this through the political lens, thats the nature of our jobs. I had been hearing same thing from not only democrats, but woer hearing them say publicly. But even republicans behind the scenes saying these raids are essentially an attempt for the president to save face politically with his base, youll recall he has failed to secure meaningful dollars for a border wall. He has not secured comprehensive immigration reform. Reform the asylum laws, everything he promised to his base when he first ran for president on immigration he has largely failed to deliver on. This is a way for him to save face with his base. Say hey were cracking down on illegal immigration, this is something i promised when i ran for president. And this is why hes touting it in this very public way. He did bow to pressure from Speaker Pelosi. House democrats are taking lots of actions on this issue. Theyre Holding Hearings focusing on it. A lot of gutwrenching testimony. We were just talking about jerry connolly, the congressman from virginia who got no a spat yesterday on the House Oversight committee with the former acting i. C. E. Chief. So democrats are trying to put the spotlight on this issue. And they are doing it to some success. In terms of getting these raids delayed by two weeks. But it looks like theyre going to go into effect starting tomorrow. Eddie glaude, the congressman from virginia brings up on whats happening to children and says its dickensian. No access to soap and toothbrush. I want to get your perspective on it from that angle. How you view this moment and whats happening here . I mean look weve always had to grapple with the, the underside, the underbelly of who we are. Its not as if the country hasnt had historical its not as if we cant point to historical examples of our cruelty. I come out of a tradition thats rooted in that cruelty. And so the idea that we could dehumanize children. Cage people and have then for 1020 days. Some say they were there for 40 days. They correct it and say they were only there for 32 days. They cant lay down. Theyre giving absolutely inhumane conditions. We know that the discourse around them is in fact has been to dehumanize them. And what we need to conflict is this is not an aberration, this has always been a part of who we are. And weve had to confront it in order to aspire to be better. So what, i thought connolly did yesterday, which was so important, was to say we are, we ought to be better. We have to be better. And if you cant see that with regards to children, what does that say about you . So in other words, i think, we, the policy reveals at least to me, the monstrous nature of what is happening in the country. I know im being melodramatic, but its monstrous. Woer doing this to babies. And were creating enemies. Thats the key. Were creating enemies. These folks, if they return to their country, they will not think of this place in terms of ellis island. They will think of this place in terms of i thought the same thing. Let me ask you lastly, the acting head of dhs is going to testify on capitol hill this woke. Who is speaking for the administration on this issue . Weve been through this whole process with regard to the census, what the Administration Perspective is versus what the president s perspective is how much do woe care what kevin m m mcaileenen is going to say on capitol hill . He said twag it was going to waste of manpower. All the people know the raids are starting on sunday. Not because of the press, because of the president. Exactly. This sometime around because the New York Times story. All these people now know cope their doors closed, i. C. E. Agents cannot enter a house without a warrant. This is, this is all about the president , which i think really further supports the idea that this is purely political posturing. But i think what eddie says is right. There are reports coming out yesterday that there are now being children born in these facilities, who are being separated from their mothers. That is just an unbearable reality and i think bodes pretty poorly for whats, the future of of this policy. And more, the country as well. The growing number of major trump departures, adds one more to its list, alex acosta heading for the door as the fallout over Jeffrey Epstein continues. Welcome back to up, the list of Trump Administration departures is long and getting longer. Labor secretary alex acosta has resign over his role in the plea deal for Jeffrey Epstein who faces new charges of sex trafficking, dozens of girls, some as young as 14. Acosta made the announcement yesterday outside the white house. It would be selfish for mow to stay in this position and continue talking about a case thats 12 years old and so i submitted my resignation to the president effective seven days from today. Effective one week from today. Earlier this morning. Acostas decision to row sign raises a lot of questions. Lawmakers knew of his involvement in the nonprosecution agreement during the confirmation process, after the miami herald published a series on Jeffrey Epstein focussing on that deal, he was under more scrutiny. President trump defended acosta and insisted he did not ask for acostas resignation. I want to let you know, this was him, not me. Alex was a great student at harvard. Hes hispanic, which i so admire. Because maybe it was a little tougher for him. And maybe not. But he did an unbelievable job. As the secretary of labor. Eddie glaude holding his head there. Theres no hispanic man or woman in Donald Trumps cabinet. This is the headline on the show. Goldbergs latest column in the New York Times. The Caligula Administration Lives on. Jeffrey epstein remain as reminder of the corruption and misogyny that continue to swirl around him. A columnist accused President Trump of sexually assaulting her. An accusation he denied saying quote, shes not my type. There are other former and present Trump Officials whose treatment of women have come to light. Andrew pudzer. Aizations of abuse. Rob porter, the former white house staff secretary accused of abuse by both exwifes. To recap those Trump Administration departures, next friday is his last day, for acosta. Last month Patrick Shanahan withdrew his name from consideration to be defense secretary. Sarah sanders has come and gone, so has john kelly, sean spicer, jeff sessions, am rosa, the list goes on and on. Hans nichols, let me turn to you, he covers the white house here for us at nbc news, learning more about what led to the departure of acosta yesterday. Walk us through what we know so far. There was the press conference that took place at the Labor Department earlier. Consensus seemed to be that that had bought him some time. The consensus seems to be it was a passing grade, he spoke on wednesday trying to explain what he did in the 200le plea agreement. What surprised me about this departure, is that listed the speed with which it happened. Because we woke up yesterday morning, alex acosta, no hint that he would be coming out with the president , when the president walked out on to the south lawn he had acosta with him. My first thought this is a show of support. This means that the president is doubling down. I asked the first question of the president , how he thought acosta did. He praised him. And it was only after the second or Third Exchange with the president , it was clear that acosta was submitting his resignation. That gives you a sense of what the president wanted to do. He wanted to praise acosta. The difference between this departure and all the other ones, aside from the velocity of it, right, the speed. The main difference is that theres a stronger nexus between acostas controversy and the president s controversy. The president s relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. The president trying to put his relationship with epstein in the past and hes doing that by parting ways with his labor secretary. Well see how successful that strategy is they clearly wanted to move on and they moved on quickly. David. Let me get your perspective that the nexus that hans is describing. You had the president saying i didnt go to that island. Beginning to rolely hem and haw about his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. Forged here in new york and palm beach. How much is this all about that . Do you think . I think this is mostly all about that. Which is a pretty unfortunate. Because would you think it would be about you know the administration, the appearances of defending someone leaning in on a serial child abuser, the president was friends with Jeffrey Epstein until they had a falling out 15 years ago. The president is on the record saying positive things about him. And the reason, i mean the white house officials i spoke to after acostas performance to explain his role in the case. Their criticisms were that you know, acosta did not do enough to distance the president from epstein. He made little mention, he made no mention of bill cloy who also has a relationship with epstein. And just didnt put an end to the conversation and criticized the media for trying to loop in the president into you know, this whole fiasco. And that ultimately is the problem here. The president has obviously as you pointed out, he, they have not done good job at vetting these candidates. Most very unusually large number of his appointees, his cabinet officials and what not, have had experiences with sexually assaulting women or just you know, really questionable personal lives. And that just exas baits the president s problems. And going into the election, especially if trump is hemorrhaging support with women right now. Thats not the appearance that the white house wants. Andrew picking up, i saw reporting about this that they havent vetted. They hadnt vetted him in advance when the president pick himd and had to do this. I saw him referred to in jackies paper as the accidental member of trumps cabinet. Lets step back and talk about how small this cabinet is now. I think there are 13 cabinet members who have departed in the last 30 months, that was in the Washington Post as well. Where does that leave things . Theres a lot of dysfunction, suffice to say. How are things able to operate at even a base level given how people they have in positions confirmed . Its difficult and the image we had up on the wall of faces and names who have departed. That makes Senate Republicans shriek in horror. One of the few things that makes them go on record and criticize the Trump Administration is these vetting fail, these nomination fails. Ive heard republican senators use the term nomination fatigue so often these days, because they are tired of having to hold confirmation hearings all the time. Take up almost all their time on nominations and then like the case last year with ronnie jackson. Forgot about ronnie. And those nominations end up failing because the vetting wasnt good enough. And this wasnt just a vetting fail from the white houses perspective. Ill note that around eight Senate Democrats voted for acosta, this issue of the Jeffrey Epstein plea deal was ohm mentioned once in his confirmation by tim kaine who is running around saying i told you so. It was not a vetting fail on the part of the white house, it was a vetting fail on the part of the senate committee. I think its an important context here. One of the few things that gets Senate Republicans on the record to criticize the president , because they do not like this even the appearance of dysfunction at these cabinet agencies. Calculated dysfunction. Trump seems to understand on a level. That effect of this cavalcade of scandal isnt cumulative. Instead each one eclipses the last. It was not a resignation with fan fare, it was a resignation with fan blades, where theres a helicopter and youre struggling to hear what the president has to say. Speak to that, his effective deployment of imposed fatigue. Thats a wonderful column by michelle goldberg. Didnt e. Jean carroll wasnt that two or throw weeks ago . The president was accused of rape and weve, weve moved on. I think its an extraordinarily effective way of deforming our intention. Theres a way in which the formation of intention, this is the deformation of our attention. Woe arent allowed to focus in on something for too long. And it has an effect of just simply wearing us down. Here it goes again. Here its happening again. So think about this. You have the issue with acosta and epstein and you see trump gave him the godfather kiss of death. I support him. We know as soon as he says that the person is about to be gone. And you know Mick Mulvaney wants him out because hes not deregulating at the rate that Mick Mulvaney wanted him to and you have barry bearing down on new orleans and the gulf coast. You wonder will fema be up and running. You tweeted this. What, will this administration have the withwithall to respond to what is happening on the gulf of mexico to a genuine crisis, you have a gaggle of incompetence, a narcissist as president and you have a country that no one seems to be at the wheel. Except for people who are pursuing their selfinterest. Then were weary. All hell breaks loose. Hans nichols thank you very much for joining us an update for something wove been covering for months. Hailed as a total defeat by the Trump Administration by dale ho, who was a guest last week. The president announcing hes abandoning the fight to put the controversial Citizenship Question on the 2020 census, the president is not done. Were not backing down on our effort to determine the citizenship status of the United States population. People who are not proud to be citizens of the ones who are fighting us all the way. President trump has ordered his administration to gather citizenship data from existing federal records. Instead something the Commerce Department announced last year. The aclu says including the Citizenship Question would have deterred the immigrants from participating in the census, leading to an undercount of millions, which could have had a profound effect on democratic representation. Tropical storm barry prepares to make landfall. Bill karins will join us next. I cant tell you who i am or what i witnessed, but i can tell you Liberty Mutual customized my Car Insurance so i only pay for what i need. Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Monitor their blood glucose every day. Which means they have to stop. And stick their fingers. Repeatedly. Today, lifechanging technology from abbott makes it possible to track glucose levels. Without drawing a drop of blood, again and again. The most personal technology, is technology with the power to change your life. Life. To the fullest. Breaking news this morning, Tropical Storm barry gains strength, approaching the gulf coast. Louisiana, alabama and mississippi are bracing. Packing winds of 70 miles per hour, drawing closer to hurricane conditions. Bill karins joins us with the latest on barry. Hes in the Weather Center. Woer talking last hour about the wind versus the rain. Whats the latest you can tell us about where the storm is. Let me give you my lift of concerns. The storm surge is in the minor category. Its happening in places that can dole with it im not too concerned with damage from that. The winds, well have minor power outages. Downed tree limbs, it will happen this afternoon. The historic to possibly extreme is going to be the flooding situation in central louisiana. I was just looking at latest river projections in central louisiana. Going back to 2016, throw years ago they had a horrific flod, they called it the once in a lifetime flood in central louisiana. 13 people died, 1015 billion dollars in damage. Some people are still in fema trailers, the river forecasts in that region are supposed to equal or exceed what they just did three years ago when all of that happened. Thats what the residents around baton rouge are facing. Talk about heartbreaking . Theyre sitting there on pins and needles looking at the skies, just praying that rainfall predictions dont come true. Heres the forecast right now. Its making landfall shortly. Along the coast now. It may be a hurricane, it may be a strong Tropical Storm. Thats not the headline. The headline is this, the highrisk of flash flooding in this region. The next 48 hours is when it pours, sunday night through wednesday is when all the water clegts, head tloug the rivers, thats when well find out what the crests are. So woer just starting the main event of the storm. Heres the rainfall predictions. This is exactly where the horrific flood three years ago occurred. Central, southcentral and central louisiana into southern mississippi. I hope its not as dire and extreme as it looks. The river forecasts are what they are theyre supposed to be at or higher than you know, a 15 billion weather disaster. Thats the potential. As we watch the storm in the gulf of mexico. A line in the New York Times, the intense rains expected this weekend and the deluge of floods that have engorged the mississippi are consistent with the effects of Climate Change in which a warmer atmosphere holds more moist and can release it in thrashing downpours. President trump praised his administrations environmental record. A speech in which he never mentioned the phrase, Climate Change. We want the cleanest air. Crystal clean water and thats what were doing and thats what were working on so hard. I think the world needs to look at your leadership. Look at what youve done. Today we have the cleanest air on record and we are a Global Leader for access to clean Drinking Water. Contrary to those comments, the New York Times reports the president is taking credits for trends that preceded his administration or actions mandated by courts, left unaddressed were his efforts to weaken Environmental Standards by rolling back regulations and his record of putting into power former energy executives. The president s speech coincided with major rains in our Nations Capital on monday, leading washington governor and president ial candidate jay inslee to say its fitting that President Trump is promoting his awful environmental record on the same day that the white house is flooding after an historic storm. If this werent real life it would be a headline in the onion. Joining us in coral davenport. A climate and Energy Reporter with the New York Times, thank you for being here. Talk about why this speech happened this week. Why the president , why the administration decided this was the time for a speech on what it sees as its environmental record. Well the push for this speech came from the president s reelection campaign. He has pollsters and strategists looking at internal polling numbers that found two key demographics. Within the Republican Party were concerned about the president s environmental record. Millennials and republican suburban women. These are groups that might have otherwise supported the president , but his environmental record, his administration has already weakened or rolled back more than 80 environmental existing environmental regulations, was troubling. So the strategists were saying look youve got to talk about this, youve dot to address it and do something about it. Its kind of hard to do that, given that this president has in fact really embraced the idea of promoting the fossil fuel industrying, of rolling back regulations, he republican on that hes meeting those campaign promises, but the flip side of that is that theres measurable harm to the environment there are more emissions, more pollution emerging as a result of the president s policy. I talked to an expert, policy expert who said this speech was the quintessential 1984 moment. For perhaps the entire administration. Where the idea that the president was putting forward and the facts of the policies that hes put forward were, were sort of sl 180 degrees apart. What was this thing in the end. As you sat through it and watched it unfold, i called it an accounting a moment to go. What was it, help us understand what he said. The president did not as you said mention the issue that is viewed by most policy experts as the overarching environmental threat of our time. Climate change. And this president has, has sort of been extraordinary, viewed as an extraordinary figure around the world in rolling back u. S. Policy on Climate Change and withdrawing the u. S. From the global Climate Change accord. So what did he talk about . He talked about kind of a grab bag of smaller policy issues. He talked about the epas work on cleaning up super fund sites. Industrial Hazardous Waste sites, its absolutely accurate that under President Trump said theyre reprioritizing this issue. The president talked about the fact that the u. S. Is ranked number one in terms of access to clean Drinking Water. That is true, unmentioned was the fact that at the same time, the president is rolling back clean Drinking Water act protections, on pollution in streams and wetlands. And that his administration has proposed moving forward with opening up the entire u. S. Coastline to oil and gas drilling. The president also talked about efforts the administration has made to clean up ocean debris. This is plastic straws, you know sort of a commitment to oceans. Again, not talked about was opening up oceans for drilling, the president presented himself as a conservationist. As a lover of public lands. Did not mention the fact that he signed the largest rollback of protections of public lands in u. S. History. So it was the, he did absolutely sort of reach for a few facts that were true. Some of the other facts that he mentioned, u. S. Carbon dioxide emissions, Greenhouse Gas emissions are going down. Thats true, as a result of policies put no place before he got no office and Market Forces that dont have anything to do with this. The policies that hes putting forward right now are, willing increase Greenhouse Gas emissions, theres not a question about that. So it was, it was a strange moment in a strange speech. Coral davenport who covers climate for the New York Times. Up ahead, more of my discussion with 2020 president ial contender, Kirsten Gillibrand. I just won by 18 trump counties in my own reelection. I can win pennsylvania, i can win michigan, i can win ohio, i can win wisconsin, i dont know that many other blue state democrats can say that. This is up. Senator Kirsten Gillibrand is taking on President Trump directly in a new tv ad and a Campaign Swing through pennsylvania, ohio and michigan, called the trump broken promises tour. Starting in pittsburgh, where i sat down with her at a restaurant for the second part of this edition of politicians and the pastry plate. On the issue of immigration the president is teasing these raids, roundups of people for deportation. Its unconscionable. We dont know who the target of these raids are going to be, we dont know if these are daca kids, dreamers who came here through no fault of their own with their parents who are now serving in our military. Or going to college or working in our communities. He is indiscriminate. He also doesnt want to protect the men and women in our military who might have a Family Member who is undocumented. Theres always been a view that you will not disturb the family of a Service Member because theyre fighting for our country. And theyre sacrificing everything. But not under President Trump. Im concerned about who hes going to round up. Who hes going to send away and what basis he has. We used to believe in asylum in this country. Under President Trump, seven children have died in his custody. Dozens of children have still not been reunited with their parents, i cant believe the stories and the things ive seen with my own eyes. Children behind cages, with no clean clothes, no soap, no baths new york city medicine. No opportunity to even lay down because theyre on a concrete slab. Its morally wrong. And it infuriates me. As president i would do it all very differently. Theres been a lot of conversation around political history, personal history of candidates. Joe biden, the former Vice President among them. Your positions have evolved on some of these issues, what is your perspective or belief on how a politician can grow or evolve in a job . They certainly should. Well it shouldnt be so hard to apologize first of all. But ive changed my views on guns, immigration, ten years ago. Ten yoers ago when i became a senator for the state of new york i recognized i needed to represent everybody and i learned pretty quickly that my experience and my perspective needed to change. I think we need a president who has the humility to recognize when theyre wrong. Who has the wisdom to listen to his or her constituents, to feel and understand whats going on in their lives and have the courage to change your view and lead from there. That is what i have done for the past ten years. So i know my record is strong. And i think we deserve a president who is Strong Enough and courageous enough to recognize when youre wrong and then lead. And thats such a difference between trump. Trump is so arrogant, so selfcentered. He would never admit if hes wrong ever. And he would never have the humility to change his view and grow and learn and listen. And thats why hes such a weak president. Who comprises the gillibrand constituency now . Im curious how much thats evolved over the course of this campaign. You started out focusing on women in particular. Now youre looking at workingclass parts of this country as well. Is there a core constituency . How do you identify who voters are likely to vote for you . For me, Public Service is about listening to everyone. That it doesnt matter who you are. Or where you live. Or who you love. You need a voice for you. And in washington, to go up against special interests that are harming you and your family. I think for most people as a right health care is the highest priority. Having access to affordable housing, food, shelter, clean air, clean water. These are basic human rights you will fight for as president. Fight for everybody. Thats who i am. I do well in all areas of new york. I represent the red places, blue places, purple places, my first House District was 21 republican. I won it twice, the second time with a 24point margin and ive never lost those ten counties since, in my last election percentage. I won back 18 counties that went for trump. My vote percentage. Higher than anyone who has run for senate or governor, ever. Because i represent everyone. Thank you very much. Thank you. She got on the bus, left after that. Eddie glaude let me ask you what she had to say about apoll joysing. She had to reckon about her personal past history in the same way as joe biden had to. She talked one way about immigration, now its different. She speaks positively to that evolution. What have we learned in the last few weeks, months about that. About having core beliefs, saying my core beliefs have changed. What have we learned about political evolution . It seems to me that the previous political wisdom is that you had to be principled and you couldnt, you remember the flipflops from previous campaigns. But it seems to me if were being true and not to ourselves, we evolve as human beings, right . The bloefs that i held as a 15yearold r1 15yearold arent the same or shouldnt be the same that i hold as a 50yearold. Because of experience. That should be evident in the people that represent us. Its often held against folk as opposed to being thinking agents were supposed to be these fixed creatures who hold principles and the principles are supposed to be static as opposed to evolving with the circumstances of our lives, if you still hold the view that people had about women in 1950, in 2019 . You should be held accountable for that. In very clear ways. Jackie, we were talking last hour about her constituency, who might support her. I want to return to that. Whats your read on that . You studied the polls day in and day out and write about how all of these folks are doing. Where do you make of wither she stands, in light of the experience she brings to bear. She hasnt had a breakout moment yet. Whats your read on where she sits in this democratic field. She hasnt broken in the top tier. Didnt have a bump from the debate. I believe she has qualified for the next debate. And potentially the third. It is an uphill battle, theres been numerous pieces written about why she is struggling to gain traction, because she is right, she does appeal to a constituency thats a constitue different from the rest of the candidates and as evidence that moment that went viral this week when she gave the response to a question in rural ohio about while privilege and provided a really nuanced response that was perceived pretty well. But, you know, this election, i dont believe, is really about necessari necessarily attracting those crossover voters. For someone like kamala harris, shes attracted the obama coalition. That is what people are coming to terms with. In order to beat trump, you just need to turn out voters. Traditionally democratic voters. Jay inslee will join us on monday. Now to alexandria ocasiocortez responding to reporters after making comments insinuating that the House Speaker nancy pelosi may have racist animus to democratic progressives. Take a listen. Its stupidly untrue, she said. She is a principal in a clash between moderate democrats and progressives in the house of representatives. A standoff between House Speaker nancy pelosi in a group called the squad which includes aoc. That tweet seemed to widen the gap between the two lawmakers. According to aoc, Speaker Pelosi had been disrespectful, singling out newly elected women of color in the day since other lawmakers and the president have come to the House Speakers defense, help us understand this to the extent it is something that the House Speaker is worried about, the progressives in the party should be worried about. Oh, boy. Okay. So in the broadest sense, this has been brewing for a while. Pelosi in these interviews shes done in press conferences has been making the offhanded comments that the squad has made within the Democratic Party more generally. And i think over the last couple of weeks, two of the things weve seen in particular come to a head. The first is that border bill where the speaker acquiesced to the senate because they felt it didnt have enough protections for my grants. The second thing i think is this brewing angst over pelosis inaction on impeachment. That is a big litmus test for progressives within the House Democratic caucus. And i think, you know, we saw with that bizarre tweet last night that the House Democratic caucus put out going back to an old tweet that aocs chief of staff had put out and, you know, trying to say that he was targeting native american women or Something Like that. Its been brewing for a long time. Im looking at the daily news cover right now. People are not afraid to go after aoc because she is crossing nancy pelosi who has been leading the Democratic Caucus for a while now. A lot of people are saying this is a generational divide. Pelosi doesnt know how to deal with them. She hasnt experienced someone like this before coming at her in this way. It will be difficult to manage and its not going to subside anytime soon. Does four members of a squad a caucus make . Do we im bu those four with more power and influence than they might have . Is this overblown, i guess, is what im asking you . Theyre not the freedom caucus. Its not overblown. Its not overblown. But let me just say this really quickly. Please. If Speaker Pelosi thinks that this is the way to respond to people who represent the progressive wing of the party, if she thinks her major concern should be just simply to appease the moderate wing of the party so that she can keep her gavel, shes going to end up losing her gavel. Were in the middle of a change cycle. And the folk out here who want washington to change, its not simply a republican thing. Right . You have folks who are committed to the frame. Theyre committed to the corporate frame. They just dont like the person running it. And then you have folks who are critiquing the frame because theyre catching hell at the bottom. And if nancy pelosi thinks she can side with the frame and those folks who are supporting it, shes going to go the way of all these other folks. So im saying that as someone who is a progressive, right, she thinks this is a strategy, shes going to lose. Maybe im now im going to get it all on twitter. Talk to me, dont do this to me on twitter, what is the quality of that dialogue . Then maybe the House Democrats an account that every single tweet has to be approved by her office shouldnt be attacking aoc staffers on a friday night. This strategy seems very counterproductive, seems to only be drawing more attention to the situation at hand. And i also think its, first of all, the squads influence is unparalleled. Secondly, nancy pelosi not too long ago was in a is he similar position where she was struggling to be taken seriously. She was under attack by her gender by everyone in her party. I dont quite understand why shes treating younger women in this manner. History with some rhyme. Thank you so much, my panelists. Coming up at the top of the hour, joy read has more on the Vice President going facetoface with caged migrants being held in deplorable conditions on his visit to texas. On his visit to texas. Crabfest is back at red lobster with 9 craveable crab creations. Like crab lovers dream with crab. Crab. And more crab. Or for those who want it all. New crabfest surf turf. Grab your crab crew, hurry in or order it to go here, hello starts with hi mple. How can i help . A data plan for everyone. Everyone . Everyone. Lets send to everyone [ camera clicking ] wifi up there . Ahhh. Sure, why not . Howd he get out . a camera might figure it out. That was easy glad i could help. At xfinity, were here to make life simple. Easy. Awesome. So come ask, shop, discover at your xfinity store today. That does it for me. A. M. Joy with joy reid starts right now. I want to show you these sandbags over here. Yesterday, i was here with the National Guard as they were putting this temporary levee in place. But its going to do little to with stand the sheer force of the current. There is a levee system that costs millions of dollars that was put in place especially in new orleans. But when you come to the other parishes like this one, you see that theyre completely unprotected. Good morning and welcome to a. M. Joy. We are watching a ton of news, as you just saw. Were keeping an eye on Tropical Storm barry which is threatening to hit the gulf coast later today. We will keep you posted on any developments there. However, there is another deeply disturbing story that were watching pretty much in horror. The fallout has just begun to unfold from registered sex offender Jeffrey Epstein who infamous skated with a sweetheart deal on previous charges of abusing teenaged girls in 2008. But who now faces federal charges for allegedly running a sex trafficking operation that lured dozens of underage girls, some as young as sh to