i also spend the last three days traveling along the conflict line, in the eastern ukraine, in the region of the donbass, talking to quite a lot of people there. today, the russian parliament voted for and ask vladimir putin, the president of russia to recognize the breakaway territories, churned russian control for the last eight years, to be recognized as sovereign and independent. it s a quiet escalation. in other circumstances, we also would say that it could be used to provoke ukraine. it s not yet recognized, but the rest stops and those on this side also believe that if these things happen, they might happen exactly there, in the region of the donbass, even if this situation de-escalates a bit. know that it s hard to believe that nothing would happen, at least at that area. because it woulds a give not an exit strategy, it s either an
exit strategy for vladimir putin or a good place to start. and coming up on the eighth anniversary of that incursion. the last time i was able to speak with you was late in january, about three and a half weeks ago. you were talking about how people were calm and there weren t a lot of signs of panic, such as hoarding groceies or filling up gas tanks. how has the situation changed or has i changed since the last time i was fortunate enough to speak to you? so, it was like that for quite a long time. and since then, i also traveled to different parts of the country and talked to a lot of people. moreover, people were even less shocked and more resilient, more prepared, because they were confident that the russian that ukraine is unconquerable. even though russia is a formidable force, ukraine would still resist. however, those last dates were very tricky, because the also, the announcement, the
let s return to the russia, ukraine crisis. i am joined by chief foreign affairs correspondent andrea mitchell who has been talking with top former officials about this. what s the thought about what it would take to deter putin, make him look for an exit strategy? lester, one word, deterrence. what the former national security official said, they have to do what biden tried to do in a speech yesterday, drive home the cost to russia if putin invades. we should be communicating to individuals in moscow that life is going to be very, very tough for you if you go into ukraine. you may be able to get all the way, push the government out of kyiv. at the end of the day, we re going to make life hell for you if that is the case. then you have the question if insurgency arises, what is the role of the united states.
on the government s plans to end all covid restrictions in england, which the prime minister is due to outline in a statement to the house of commons later this afternoon. joining me now is nick powdthavee who is a professor of behavioural science at warwick business school. you must have had such an interesting time in the last couple of years watching how british people behave during a pandemic and how it compares with other countries. all kinds of lessons from that. what about coming out of a pandemic, because that is a different challenge again? because that is a different challenuaeaain? ,, ., challenge again? needless to say i m cautiously optimistic challenge again? needless to say i m cautiously optimistic but challenge again? needless to say i m cautiously optimistic but when - challenge again? needless to say i m cautiously optimistic but when my - cautiously optimistic but when my colleague and myself were thinking about the exit strategy two years ago now, really, we
leave ukraine for some time. the infrastructure was better in terms of an exit strategy. i m not sure that there s that much more that we can do than has been done on that front. is there? no, i don t think there is. what is interesting, we re threatening financial sanctions in that if russia invades, we can cut them off from the global financial system. if we do that, i think russia knows all we ll do is at one point push russia in to the arms of china. you can have a fraction of that system. we have a lot of power now. if that crack happens, it s bad for america, bad for our leverage and power. russia might say i don t think the u.s. will use that bludgeon against us because we just go to russia we ll go to china. now we fractured this financial