and this is particularly egregious. rishi sunak has crossed whatever line was left to be crossed, and i hope my former boss and former cabinet secretary gus o'donnell said whoever is in charge of the next government, the treasury should simply say no, we cannot do this, we will not allow civil servants to be abused in that way. that is something that both parties have done and misused in the past, i thought what happened last night was particularly bad, but hopefully this is the last time. i particularly bad, but hopefully this is the last time.— is the last time. i picture emily thornberry _ is the last time. i picture emily thornberry about _ is the last time. i picture emily thornberry about whether - is the last time. i picture emily thornberry about whether all l is the last time. i picture emily| thornberry about whether all of is the last time. i picture emily - thornberry about whether all of this matters, because what the conservatives did successfully was planted the seed in the minds of voters that labour is a party that would raise taxes, and labour are clearly refuting those allegations today. the conservatives say they stand by those numbers. what it has done is plant that seed, and whether accurate or not, straightaway it has
they not? you have identified now two ma'or they not? you have identified now two major flaws — they not? you have identified now two major flaws in _ they not? you have identified now two major flaws in that _ they not? you have identified now two major flaws in that strategy. | two major flaws in that strategy. the point i am trying to make is that the doctrinal flaw was the biggest by a long way, because if we had had a flu pandemic, we still would have had the problem of no plan in place for lockdown, no prep for how to do one, no work on how best to lock down with the least damage. i understand deeply the consequences of lockdown and a negative consequences for many, many people, many of which persist to this day. the problem that we faced was that the consequences of not locking down was much worse, and we need to be able to... i thinkjohn edmonds is excellent in his evidence, and gus o'donnell, saying we need to have a way to calibrate as early as possible, what with the damage be if we did not... mr hancock. _ damage be if we did not... mr hancock. i'm _ damage be if we did not... mr hancock, i'm going to pause you
how does it work? well, it's 2a hours. so we were, obviously, with the announcement of the death of gorbachev yesterday evening, straightaway we're thinking about which guests we're going to book for the podcast the following day. we already had this interview with gus o'donnell lined up. but, you know, it's news, you have to react. we have to be reactive. and that's what people expect from daily news podcasts. so we arrived in the studio this morning at 9:00, started working through, you know, we don't have a script, we don't have a running order, it's conversational, but we talk it through, and then we hit record. we might do a couple of takes, then we record the interview. i mean, we had, asjon alluded to, we've had a really great interview with gus o'donnell, which has got some news lines. so we're going to push those out. and, yeah, we cut it and get it down to about 30 minutes and put it out within, kind of, two hours after we finish recording. well, we're grateful for you making half an hour to speak with us in the middle of all of this. that'sjon sopel and dino sophos, here with us for the programme. alsojoining them are
i mean, you know, alastair had a job to do and jonathan haslam, when he was with jon major and gus o'donnell, had a job to do. and they did theirjob to the best of their ability. and they're going to say, "i think you got the story wrong. " and you say, thank you very much for, you know, and you listen to why and you think, well, do i believe that? do i think that squares with the the contacts i've had with various people? if it does, i'll take it. and if it doesn't, i will ignore it. i think much more serious today is the problem we have with fake news, where absolute falsehood can take hold via social media that i think whether a spin doctor is a bit aggressive or not seems to me kind of yesterday's story. and on that point, i should say thatjamie angus, a former senior bbc news executive, on the issue of emily maitlis' monologue for which the bbc, the bbc retracted, said senior managers and news could see immediately why it couldn't be allowed to stand and they would have withdrawn it, even if number 10 had not complained. now, on the issue. hold on now, alastair, i'm going to bring in nosheen here. 0k. sorry, nosheen. because you've talked about the prism through which all news exists.
well... ..or across most of the media. well, you're right. you won't hear the word "liar" on the bbc, though i would say that there are many circumstances i can think of where it's been pointed out that something the prime minister has said is not true. let me ask you a broader point, particularly alastair and adam, but, jon, i'm interested to get you to think back to your experiences in washington and westminster of the daily pressure, adam, that governments try to exert on journalists and news organisations. the idea that that call that came in after emily maitlis monologue, that it wouldn't be unusual for the government to call up the bbc, would it? no, and it's it actually dates back to a certain extent, in my experience, to alistair's period, where there was a more hands—on dealing with the media and a willingness to take up complaints, which i don't think we necessarily experienced either, when gus o'donnell
explaining before we came on air, you are just signing off your second episode. give us a 30 second spin through a day producing a news podcast like the news agents. how does it work? well, it's 2a hours. so we were, obviously, with the announcement of the death of gorbachev yesterday evening, straightaway we're thinking about which guests we're going to book for the podcast the following day. we already had this interview with gus o'donnell lined up. but, you know, it's news, you have to react. we have to be reactive. and that's what people expect from daily news podcasts. so we arrived in the studio this morning at 9:00, started working through, you know, we don't have a script, we don't have a running order, it's conversational, but we talk it through, and then we hit record. we might do a couple of takes, then we record the interview. i mean, we had, asjon alluded to, we've had a really great interview with gus o'donnell, which has got some news lines. so we're going to push those out. and, yeah, we cut it and get it down to about 30 minutes and put it out within, kind of, two hours after we finish recording. well, we're grateful for you making half an hour to speak with us in the middle
i mean, overthe time i was there at the bbc, they accrued 85 million downloads. so i think what i created at the bbc was successful and has enabled us to launch what we're doing here on the news agents. and just quickly, you're sitting here, you were just explaining before we came on air, you arejust signing off your second episode. give us a 30 second spin through a day producing a news podcast like the news agents. how does it work? well, it's 2a hours. so we were, obviously, with the announcement of the death of gorbachev yesterday evening, straightaway we're thinking about which guests we're going to book for the podcast the following day. we already had this interview with gus o'donnell lined up. but, you know, it's news, you have to react. we have to be reactive. and that's what people expect from daily news podcasts. so we arrived in the studio this morning at 9:00, started working through, you know, we don't have a script, we don't have a running order, it's conversational, but we talk it through,
sitting here, you werejust explaining before we came on air, you are just signing off your second episode. give us a 30 second spin through a day producing a news podcast like the news agents. how does it work? well, it's 2a hours. so we were, obviously, with the announcement of the death of gorbachev yesterday evening, straightaway we're thinking about which guests we're going to book for the podcast the following day. we already had this interview with gus o'donnell lined up. but, you know, it's news, you have to react. we have to be reactive. and that's what people expect from daily news podcasts. so we arrived in the studio this morning at 9:00, started working through, you know, we don't have a script, we don't have a running order, it's conversational, but we talk it through, and then we hit record. we might do a couple of takes, then we record the interview. i mean, we had, asjon alluded to, we've had a really great interview with gus 0'donnell, which has got some news lines. so we're going to push those out. and, yeah, we cut it and get it down to about 30 minutes and put it out within, kind of, two hours after we finish recording. well, we're grateful
i would say that there are many circumstances i can think of where it's been pointed out that something the prime minister has said is not true. let me ask you a broader point, particularly alastair and adam, but, jon, i'm interested to get you to think back to your experiences in washington and westminster of the daily pressure, adam, that governments try to exert on journalists and news organisations. the the idea that that call that came in after emily maitlis monologue, that it wouldn't be unusual for the government to call up the bbc, would it? no, and it's it actually dates back to a certain extent, in my experience, to alistair's period, where there was a more hands on dealing with the media and a willingness to take up complaints, which i don't think we necessarily experienced either, when gus o'donnell was representing jon major or previously with bernard ingham. i think we knew where they came
and then we hit record. we might do a couple of takes, then we record the interview. i mean, we had, asjon alluded to, we've had a really great interview with gus o'donnell, which has got some news lines. so we're going to push those out. and, yeah, we cut it and get it down to about 30 minutes and put it out within, kind of, two hours after we finish recording. well, we're gratefulfor you making half an hour to speak with us in the middle of all of this. that'sjon sopel and deano sophos, here with us for the programme. also joining them are adam boulton, of course, a giant of sky news for many years now with a new show on times radio. also nosheen iqbal, presenter of the guardian's today in focus podcast, and alastair campbell, who, of course, worked with tony blair for many years. he's now a writer and co—presenter of the rest is politics podcast. and we're going to talk about news podcasts and why they're different and how they're changing how we all get news in a minute. first, though, let's reflect onjon�*s co—presenter in his new podcast, emily maitlis and her mactaggart speech last week, which certainly got a lot of attention. it painted a picture of the bbc,