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Repaired. this is the tribal arab region, the sunni conservative heartland of the middle east where isis tends to thrive. so for me whats extraordinary about this allegation or this news reporting is that baghdadi has gone to a place that frankly hes not all that welcome in. the place that the u.s. has announced it was going to withdraw from until donald trump rather precipitously said, no, were doing an about face, were actually going to come back into syria to guard the oil wells, this is the ...

There is a huge protest movement against the central government, and particularly against iranian-backed militia groups in iraq. isis has the most potential to reorganize and to resurge in a place like iraq rather than syria especially now the americans have decided to come back into syria. its very strange. you know, i dont doubt that the reporting has been credible. i dont doubt that, in fact, baghdadi was, indeed, targeted there based on credible intelligence. but frankly, as somebody who has...

Donald trumps precipitous decision to withdraw from syria, a decision, by the way, which has now been reversed. we wont get into that. but a deal between ankara and moscow was to carve up the region of northern and northeast syria, yeah. and the most important thing for the russians is to ensure that idlib is no longer a stronghold or a safe haven for jihadist organizations that are looking to attack russias primary military base, which is just to the west of idlib province. so idlib is the cent...

This is idlib province. idlib province, the most predominant jihadist faction of al qaeda. whats important to keep in mind here is al qaeda broke from the organization that has become isis in around 2013, 2014. so baghdadi does not have many friends in idlib. now, its true there might be some isis sleeper cells or isis factions that have infiltrated into idlib in recent months or years. but this is not hospitable at the ra terrain for him. the most hospitable terrain is where the u.s. announced ...

If al qaeda, as is widely known, is the predominant jihadist organization in idlib, is still in control of that province -- which i am not under any, you know, indication that its not -- its very strange that baghdadi would go to that area of northwestern syria. again, the area that isis has thrived in has been jazeera, which is the eastern, mostly central and southeastern syria. this is the area that is the gateway, the border lands between syria and iraq. remember, isis -- it came into its own...

So it could be that he was, he was there on his way to turkey, coming out of turkey, looking to hide, to get out of the country. as you were just talking about, idlib is a place where a lot of hard liners, a lot of isis members have been falling back to. he would have been falling back to a group of his core supporters right there as the islamic movement, the hardline islamists from the al qaeda factions and isis had really nowhere to go after they were defeated in this -- defeated in their so-c...

Being made on the side lines here that do not, frankly, involve the united states. principally between turkey and russia. so, you know, when i first saw evidence on social media that there was a raid into northwest syria, the allegations being made then were it was actually the turks that were invading in idlib province to mount some kind of special operations raid against al qaeda in idlib. now the reporting seems to suggest this is a u.s. raid targeting baghdadi. this is very strange, given th...

Unsurprising. that transit rutta cross the turkish border into the idlib province is a route that islamic extremists have been using for years now. a well-known smuggling route. >> richard, what do you believe is the state of isis right now if baghdadi is, in fact, dead? >> well, this is very -- its a blow to the group, but the group was so much in flux. and actually toward the end, right in the end, baghdadi had lost some of his, some of his shine. he had lost some of his popularity because eve...

Status that he had once had when he was declaring his own caliphate. when he stood in -- and he did this physically when he stood in mosul and declared himself to be the leader of all muslims. that was his peak. he was -- he was in charge of an organization that was spreading and that was attracting recruits from around the world. and now, again, he apparently was targeted and killed. he was a fugitive on the run, trying to rebuild. he was at an extremely low point compared to where he had been....

So much. please stay on the phone with us as we may go back to you in just a little bit. we have someone else joining us. richard engel who is live on the phone with us from northern syria. richard, what can you tell us about these recent updates? >> reporter: so, were hearing as well -- im hearing from my sources, too, saying there was this raid that they believe baghdadi was the target and one of them saying they believe baghdadi was, in fact, killed in this operation. that it took place right...