coconspirator one. conspirator one we know now is rudy giuliani, a one time political star, his reputation has fallen far for the man once known as america s mayor. 360 s randy kaye has more on the rise and fall of rudy giuliani. what happened to there s no black america, there s no white america, there is just america? what happened to it? reporter: rudy giuliani at the 2016 republican national convention. this was not the kid from brooklyn that america had come to know. giuliani had earned a reputation for being tough on crime as a young assistant u.s. attorney. at 39 he was appointed u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york, zeroing in on organized crime and white collar criminals. after becoming mayor of new york city in 1993, giuliani took credit for making manhattan safe. then came 9/11.
anybody and he had me thoroughly confused. i think when he was talking about collusion, is it a crime or not, he almost appeared like a law professor. that s not where we are in the realm of law. this is about a political kangaroo court that the swamp is operating and we need to approach it and fight it like a political fight. this is a political cage match. this isn t about criminal law. so i think to me, he confused the issue there, and we need to continue to telegraph what the president has for many, many months. no collusion. and if there s no collusion, then they don t have a political case to usurp what we did in 2016. bakari, is that what it boils down to, to no collusion? again, giuliani today seemed to move the goal post saying, well, collusion is not a crime. so indicating, well, if there was collusion, it s not a crime. no, and i don t know what theoretical law is. somebody s going to have to explain that to me. i will tell you there are two tracks the white house is on
collusion is not a crime, he oddly said that trump was not physically present at the trump tower meeting. to me, that may be where giuliani was trying to draw a very fine line that trump may walk. i certainly think that warrants some more follow-up on what ehe meant by saying he was not physically present. it s very important about this meeting, there s no indication that it was anything other than a nothing-burger. the white whale in this case as you referred to before the break is some sort of conspiracy with the russians to commit a crime and hack these e-mails. so far we have zero, zero evidence of that. but the time line is certainly very suspicious, in which trump says he would preview a speech about hillary clinton that didn t materialize. then he continues to call on the russians to hack [ overlapping voices ] one at a time. nobody knows. i m just saying the time line is very suspicious. that s why we re in the middle of an investigation. do you think he was openly