Millions along to you i said did you agree with that assessment of i mean this is serious stuff we could law for 23000000. 00 on pools of amphitheatres in a country where half the population lives on less than 5. 00 a day you accept a net and lets use no its not a question of accepting or not accepting part of the challenge that we have is that part of that is actually Government Property which was actually for purposes of ensuring that there are Health Facilities nearby for the president to be able to be looked after or any of the stuff in 2016 there was a Landmark Constitutional Court ruling that said. Jacob zuma should pay some money but it also ruled against the National Assembly that you were speaker saying you would quote fail to fulfill its constitutional obligations to hold the president accountable thats a thats an indictment of you years a speaker of parliament is not an indictment of an individual because the individual actually does not determine the position that parliament or the National Assembly actually end up taking. Democratic alliance versus speaker of the National Assembly shall you because i am their leader and therefore on behalf of the institution i become the person who is quoted do you believe you are a neutral impartial speaker. Then why is it that you as a neutral impartial speaker you had to apologize for calling an Opposition LeaderJulius Malema a cockroach at an a. N. C. Rally is not a neutral impartial. Not in parliament so lets not go see you only neutral in part. I said but even you know political context i was in the north where id had to apologize you dont sound very apollos it was not correct for me to call another person a cockroach whether im. Just looking forward south africa has a new president who claims to be determined to stamp out corruption even though he himself has been accused of Misleading Parliament over a Campaign Donation and even though out of 21. 00 corruption scandals during the 25 years in office just one senior party figure has been brought to account in terms of going to jail how can anyone have confidence in the current government to clean things up when only one person went to prison i think you have seen the excellence of the president. How he has dealt with the issues of strengthening the institutions of governance strengthening in particular the Justice System bringing in people who are going to act differently people who are going to have the courage and to do things focused on correcting what has been wrong in the system just on the one person who was sent to prison this was the former chief whip tony who was sent to jail for fraud i believe you accompanied him to the prison gate how is are not putting your party and your alliances above the interests of parliament in the country accompanied. Me because i did not believe in what he was being said to have done and i accompanied him as a complete so you dont accept the courts verdict in a democratic so im not saying that im just telling you that company. And i dont feel guilty for that you dont can you tell our viewers what position tony and danny this ex convict was appointed to by the mc last Year Position he was appointed to chair of the working group on corruption. One thing how you personally went to prison. On corruption in the a. N. C. Political lives. We look at things sometimes not exactly the way other people like there and agree with. Lets go to our panel who waited to come in im joined by mco seacoast a former m. P. Who resigned from the party in 2017 after calling for president zuma to step down following corruption allegations in your view macos and you were there for a lot of this period did the a. N. C. Fail to hold president zuma to account did the speaker fail to hold the president to account in your view of course yes i think they did fail to hold him to account and in fact some of us that were speaking out against what we saw is an attack on the constitution and on to social contract where persecuted and especially. Is somebody that i held in high esteem is somebody who will molded me as a young person and as a feminist i expected to date or to have receive some kind of support from her so from that point of view i honestly do think it in terms of into tisha snus leadership in treaties justness i think they have to prove themselves if they are to people lived did you fail to give them a cosi the support she needed to let it out i didnt let it down she and i had a Quick Exchange outside just to agree that we have stuff to catch up on and we will do that ok i mean im all for you catching go but just for the purposes of the people watching around the world in this room do you want to deal with the point you made it down as a feminist as an m. P. Trying to hold the president you were there to back her oh i was there to back up when she needed security i made sure that we should look into the issues of what kind of support parliament had to ensure she had and we did. Well to with that very fairly very focused said lee. Kalani is the executive chairman of south African Business abroad a member of the a. N. C. Do you think people have faith in the sea to deal with this corruption issue thats been festering on their watch especially given the current president has his own Campaign Donation issues going on where local South Africans have a huge feat in the African National congress you must remember that we inherited a situation where we have an infrastructure that was not capable to assist our people hospitals were only designed for the privilege the majority of black people were able to attend hospital if we were only 2 universities they were not there catering for black people so all that the government of the is have done so much for the south African People it is for that reason the low that they keep voting for them but i must add Something Else the fact that i am having this privilege to have this discussion with you in the United Kingdom it is also that the government of the n. C. We were not allowed of black people to be able to see the talk free me it was a criminal offense for me to be here the last thing i wanted to see it come to the corruption issue very briefly when it happens in africa we label it as corruption but it happens in the hours of come on m. P. Is out came into houses and we call it a scandal but when hes in africa as corruption charges make will receive a. Thank you i thank you let me bring in Andrew Feinstein is another former sea m. P. Resigned back in 2001 these are all 3 of after the party a personal journey inside the a. N. C. Is now director of corruption watch u. K. And you said you left the a. N. C. Because the government at the time refused to investigate corruption properly how bad has the corruption issue become for the South African government not just on the tab mbeki but jacob zuma and the polls. 1st of all many i think that kalani is point is very well taken i think that we mustnt lose sight of what has been done in 25 years of democracy nor lose sight of the fact that what we inherited was a systemically corrupt system the biggest problem has been however that our only to ship including comrade and better whos been a very important leader of our liberation struggle and of our democratic era have not been prepared to call out colleagues in leadership who have engaged in corruption and that started all those years back with the arms deal that i tried to investigate in which south africa spent 10000000000. 00 on weapons that we neither needed no barely used and the primary reason that was done is because around 300000000. 00 of bribes were paid and unfortunately then president tabo mbeki was prepared to undermine our institutions of democracy including parliament that he and many others that sacrificed so much to bring about in order to cover up corruption if that had been stopped then. I dont think we would have gone on to the state capture crisis the in canada cry let me put that point to did you never feel the need to call out your jacob zuma or did you just feel you couldnt you were in the big 6 in the leadership of the party you know there is a tendency to be even hiring for things to be damned positions to be taken against people before the actual investigation has been down but youre acting like this is just popped up now as these things were happening you were being criticized you dont just get a report from someone and they declare whatever they say whatever they believe you must do and you just hash off and do it you go to app apply your own mind into whatever people see ok right under just right to come back in very briefly and these are constitutional bodies there was a report from the Auditor General about corruption in the arms deal in 2000 parliament decided unanimously to conduct a multiagency investigation into it it was the leadership of the a. N. C. That stopped that investigation because leadership of the a. N. C. Would themselves complicit and this is been the problem time after time the information has been there from constitutionally mandated bodies another big topic thats in the news especially right now in south africa in recent months your country seen an increase in violence and a phobic attacks foreign owned shops run sacked protests and chants of foreigners must go back to where theyve come from how worried are you about the this rise in violent racism we are very worried. And they have been statements not only from the president himself both in south africa and in a neighboring countries for instance when he went to prison mugabes funeral he took the opportunity to apologize and put a perspective on what had happened it was not only foreign nationals that we cute many South Africans were also. Victimized in that public violence our minister of International Relations has actually been having a meeting with all. Embassies or m. Ambassadors will you say that youre worried you say the president s worried and yet a. N. C. Ministers have kind of helped escalate this crisis you have the deputy minister of police a couple years ago saying we foreigners of taken over the city centers in johannesburg he said we fought for this land we cannot surrender it to foreign nationals but then the Health Minister blamed overcrowded hospitals and diseases on foreigners this is the kind of far right xenophobic rhetoric that we see in other parts of the world leading to violence this is not helpful we nor recently at a meeting we had as the National ExecutiveCommittee Led by the president in the top 6 weve all our branches in johannesburg discuss these issues and we took a leadership position that said we must correct whoever is involved so you say you say when i want to Branch Leaders did the a. N. C. Premier of how david macor did he not get the memo because he said this year some specific crimes are committed by specific nationalities drugs there are specific nationalities how do we have so many drug duns that are operated by nigerians is that helpful rhetoric when people are being not heard fooled by does also true. Its true whats true in certain cases people have been found to be guilty of running dry or no juries in this is sam nigeria literally. You said there are many South Africans also im cousin you can where you stand on the one hand youre saying we shouldnt single them out on the other hand youre saying its true what he says when years im out it is true when it is true its true but i do condemn a statement that makes it sound like all nigerians are doing all they criminality is in johannesburg when in fact we ourselves are also involved because because they are worried are you the truth about what is currently happening is that you have a quantico corrupt Police Service if you know that there are people that attack trafficking or doing something why are you not a listing them because that is a crime but at that specific nation ality it is enough for pick because you are basically inciting the communities to rise against for the nice because they would start looking at for the night is the people that appearing in tribes when they tried trafficking is happening in collusion with the police. And do you agree with or disagree with the well meant i must take this opportunity to once again my president have turned this inside out and i think. The guests have turned to the to apologize even to any other ordinary african here or a latino with an African Heritage topologies on behalf of the sort of indians in the sport of whatever but when theres a criminal element lets be able to point them out by race nationality i didnt say that i mean even though its a lot of out of human activity with respect i need to learn when former president he said in september yes the truth of the matter is that there are nigerian criminals who are involved in drug dealing and thats true. There is no South African that goes around chasing nigerians because they are nigerians is are not denialism of the problem by me give you more in all or if you agree with that so here i have to give you what the polls that have said what you have said by the stars test it and the report says to us now 16 people have passed away on the recent incidents that are out of the 16 theres no way of know theres no one from nigeria 14 a South African oneness or milo why are we not talking about that as facts ok let me bring that under feinstein its not a problem theres no issue with. The 1st is that a key roots of this problem are the levels of economic inequality that you mention in south africa and these have to be addressed id like these have to be addressed by our leadership the 2nd problem is a lack of accountability of leaders when they make statements like you mention from the premier of the how tang province that is completely unacceptable that is the language of trump and for raj that is not the language that should be coming from the leadership of the Liberation Movement with the proud tradition and history of the African National electorate rudely they. Should stop using the lead language of trump and fraud that those are his with and im asking if you agree with them xenophobic it is it is if it is people in your house guilty of xenophobia some people are not all senior people some. Senior people yes. Im glad we can agree on that on that note its time for a break after a very lively 1st half join me after the break for part 2 of head to head where well hear from our very patient audience here in the oxford union and continue our discussion of the andes legacy. To strengthen the good you have to do good all the more with the fight against corruption. Heroes like new who are about to be refused a 15000000. 00 brian the achievement of heroes like him to showcase by the international. It shines a light on these heroes because your best way to fight a dark used to shine the light lets make a router bit to please. Your anti corruption. Counting the cost the 7. 00 word tweet the prove. How china silence his critics that eyes access to its 14 trillion dollar economy the cost of hiring at oil tanker is soaring for the lazy and fishermen are facing financial losses counting the cost. Hello im Lauren Taylor none of the top stories on ars are lebanons Prime Minister saad hariri has given rival groups in his government 72 hours to unite and get behind his reform plans hes addressed the nation in mass protests over Economic Conditions at least 2 people have died during the demonstrations protesters are demanding the resignation of the government they accuse their leaders of looting and bankrupting the country which is in a severe economic crisis the latest protests were triggered by new taxes including a fee to use whatsapp that was scrapped but people are still out on the streets. Board. I am giving our partners in the government a very short deadline 72 hours to give us a solution like and visit us and the people in the streets and our International Partners violent protests are taking place in barcelona after hundreds of thousands of people descended on the city in a show of support for 9 jailed cattle and separatist leaders right police fired rubber bullets at several 100 people who surrounded the National Police headquarters and set fire to the streets spains acting interior minister has warned violent protesters they faced up to 6 years in prison the rest follows a day of largely Peaceful Demonstrations more than 500000 people converged on the catalan regional capital in a mass show of support for the politicians they were handed like lengthy jail sentences for their role in catalonia failed independence bid 2 years ago. The turkish president richard one says the offensive in northeast syria will resume quote within minutes if kurdish fighters dont abide by the terms of the cease fire the 5 day truce is largely holding so far theres been some unverified reports of sporadic fighting a cease fire agreed by the United States and turkey is supposed to allow kurdish led s. T. s fight is to leave areas controlled by turkish forces. At least 62 people have been killed in an explosion at a mosque in afghanistan the attack happened in the House Community street to the east 9 the hard times where shippers had gathered in a mosque for friday prayers explosion caused the buildings roof to collapse injuring dozens more no one has claimed responsibility for the attack those were the t