Hey there welcome to the stream hi im josh rushing and you are in my home today were talking about what spills like a major shift in the movement to stop pipelines in the u. S. To quit with native americans resisting those pipelines and theyve had quite a few successes recently now hey look were in live on you tube and im hoping youre going to join us in that you to chat over there so that i can get some of your discussions and during the show. Lets go right to the issue you know in the u. S. Right now about 9000 miles of pipeline with another 12500 miles already kind of announced or in the approval process so that comes out to what 2122000 miles of pipeline just to give you a sense of what that means the earth at its circum prince is about 25000 miles around so were talking about be able go all the way around the planet just in the pipelines here in the u. S. They are often problematic particularly environmentally speaking and so there has been resistance and they often go across native lands and so that resistance has been led by the nations here in the u. S. Now some of the decisions that have come down just recently a judge sent down the Dakota Access pipeline now you might remember this one because it had the big battle of Standing Rock my colleagues at ball lines were out there for that baton heres what some of that looked like. Then i got the notice that Dakota Access was going to start working in 48 hours so i pulled up my i phone and did a small video asking people to come help. Asking each of you to come stand has said see its done. Gradually more and more tribes began to show up in the camp started to grow as the pipeline started making its way towards the river as opposition grew things came to a head on september 3rd all the women and children were along the line crying they had just got to pepper spraying everybody and i remember standing there thinking. Where and why is this america. That was 4 years ago that was 2016 but just last week a judge shut down that pipeline at least for now another huge pipeline to the u. S. Coming from canada going toward the brass is the keystone x. L. Pipeline also shut down by a judge in the last week. And then a 3rd pipeline that land it coast pipeline and this one was going to come across the appalachians and go into virginia delivering natural gas but like the backers of that would have backed out as a resistance to it has raised the the cost of it initial cost estimates there will be about 5000000000. 00 and now theyre looking through delays it be about 8000000000. 00 and theyre just deciding it may not be worth their time any more all this is set against the backdrop of any Energy Prices crashing i mean they were going down before cove it but during cover that actually reached a point where oil in the u. S. Was at a negative value meaning they would pay people to take the oil to store it so the big question here is in this time a pandemic with these rulings in their favor is this a Tipping Point kind of moment and im going to add one more spark to the flame here a limb mark ruling came out of the u. S. Supreme Court Last Week and the grip 1st oklahoma where the Supreme Court acknowledged that the native american tribes actually do own about 40 percent of oklahoma they do control and they have sovereign control over that area it is a at landmark ruling that will have to nick an outcome or maybe generations to come i like to bounce from here to bring in our guests like this the heart of the conversation ask everyone to introduce themselves jacqueline swanning us from Portland Oregon this morning can you can you tell our audience here. Yeah i am Jacqueline Keeler and im the editor in chief of pollination magazine its not news magazine that it has an all native Women Journalist as auriol board and and yet ive been covering this issue on iraq as a journalist. Well really pipeline since 2014 when i was covering the keystone x. L. Pipeline as well and so yeah and that said im based in Portland Oregon i am a citizen of the Navajo Nation and i am my father is yankton sioux and so i have relatives in both. In both areas so. Thanks jacqueline donna for the lumbee trying to bring us North Carolina can you give us a bit of an introduction yes good morning in it so good to be with you i am down at shave us im a lumbee elder here in the east im in timber North Carolina which is the s. S. True home for the lumbee. I am a founder of ah the red tailed hawk collective which is a group of academics as well as organizers who work towards making sure that indigenous indigenous voices are heard in the efforts to stop these pipelines especially since theyre coming across so many of our lands and i also serve as they say in your fossil fuel campaign or with friends of the earth so we bring together the all the groundwork as well as the allied behaviors from our environmental groups that can help us bring this to a stop and we are very happy to be celebrating the end of the Atlantic Coast pipeline. To be on the east coast to join i got to give to a special shout out here she found out maybe 20 minutes ago that she was going to do this for us standing in for another guest who had a family emergency so thank you so much for joining us last night men and then to our good fortune i mean joe you were you were there on day one of the battle of Standing Rock right. Yeah i was the 1st camp rat standing are you honey i asked a good morning my name is joy braun im a member of the Cheyenne River city tribe i am the no cant fallin no doubt bull organizer for indigenous environmental network. Morning hey good morning thanks for joining us now look our audience we have a really Large International audience it might be a little confusing were talking about sovereignty issues and nations within the nation jacqueline can you just explain that kind of the top line of that for our audience. Yeah i think that well lot of people dont realize is that native nations are sovereign and they had been sovereign before the existence United States in fact some of the 1st treaties that the United States signed the 1st with with other nations were with native nations and so we were the 1st to recognize the sovereignty of the United States while some some tribes did and my husband is his either direct descent of cheetos the proud who fought against. The american colonies and and but the but yeah the so we actually these treaties histories are being invoked now as with the bigger case noko homa and with dapple with the fort laramie treaties they actually are only treaties early and into by sovereign nations so you have to by definition be a sovereign nation to even enter into a treaty and these treaties particular trees were ratified by the u. S. Senate and so they under the constitution never mind International Law into the constitution they are considered the supreme law of the land so with the u. N. Of course you know you saw it happen every july 4th and mt rushmore the black hills and the area north steps down the rocks your education are all within the treaty boundaries agreed upon with the great sioux nation of which Cheyenne River and Standing Rock and my my dads tribe the tribe are all components of it and i know that there theres been resistance for for generations to a lot of issues but this this resistance of the pipeline that we can look back at downfall what happened there Standing Rock as kind of a key mormon in that in that movement joy can you take us back to that and then talk about the decision last week from the judge to shut it down and where where this puts us. Well the court access pipeline and the Standing Rock sioux tribe had made a request the grassroots people had made a request that we commonly help with them because the core axis was going to rule 851 for at laramie treaty and again like jacqueline said treaty is the law of the land under article 6 of the United States constitution and so we were making a stand because the water was going to going to be affected not only on standing right but my my reservation as well and also 18000000 people downstream so we werent just standing up for asked of local to people but we were also standing up for for the everyday american downstream so the kota access pipeline on decision that came down on just recently was the army corps of engineers was ordered that they needed to do an Environmental Impact statement not to not an assessment but an actual statement along the Missouri River crossing now thats something that we who are on the ground had been asking for since day one that an Environmental Impact statement completed a study be to be completed and it wasnt completed especially along the Missouri River and so they were told ordered that they needed to shut down the pipeline and Energy Transfer partners was told they need to shut down the pipeline that their study needs to be done and that consultation with the tribes needs to be done no consultation was 10 iraq Cheyenne River yanked in crow creek lower brule those those tribes along the river were never completed to begin with and that has to be done if youre talking about any major crossing along the Missouri River or any other major crossing like the analyst on for keystone x. L. Are the misery for joy its. Still is a victory here directly linked to the grassroots resistance or is it more about the illegal about it because as we know the pipeline to go forward it has been in operation for what 33 years until now. You talk a little bit of about where where this came from the roots of it well it all started with grassroots people and the grassroots people were the ones that were pushing our tribal governments to see tribal governments are very reactionary theyre not going to do anything like most governments unless the people tell them to do something great so the track the grassroots people really really stood strong and said hey we need our travel cover ments to become involved and to take on this legal battle because these are not cheap battles these are expensive battles in our tribes are not rich tribes that stand in iraq Cheyenne River pine ridge we are some of the poorest states in the entire nation and so to get our tribes to say ok were going to dedicate x. The moment dollars 6000000 dollars 1000000 dollars to do this kind of legal battle that takes a lot of funding away from other resources but it means that much to ask this grassroots people that we want to have this battle we want to take this battle on not independent of one another the being on the ground and the try it wasnt it wasnt independent the air its there closely connected to it the people want and what the tribe is willing to deal. I want to bring in some for you to community right off the bat here looking at a comment from Gerard Bracks i think misses for the next 100 years i would imagine oil is the blood of our nation weve run on a into we invent Something Else we need it if we did an economic base donna maybe you can talk about that do do we need oil and im also curious to hear from you about the Atlantic Pipeline it was a little bit of a different victory there didnt come from a court heard judge wright right actually with the Atlantic CoastPipeline Companies did energies and dominion. Decided to cancel the pipeline. And one of the things that we celebrated was the fact that it was it ringback was done in this way we didnt have to go through the expensive and legal legal battles that joy just described we actually. In many ways here on the east of the efforts to run pipelines then to have other toxic waste released into our waters. Sometimes we feel like its invisible and so part of our work was to make the visit the invisible visible by bringing attention to what was happening in terms of the. Children have a disproportionate impact in in our indigenous communities we had 4 tribes the lumbee the co hari the heroine and how was supposed to who were directly owned this pipeline and at the time that it was announced there was no awareness that this was happening there had been no consultation there had not even been any conversations with the Tribal Community so we were afraid facing some of the very same problems that youve just heard described in fact at one point yes simply was called the dapple of the east because there were so many comparisons with the number of tribal peoples impacted by it so. The organizing of the the people on the ground and especially the indigenous communities was critical in getting us to the place or way where we landed where the companies withdrew and we have a comment from the hes the president of the north Dakota Petroleum council so hes specifically referring to that the down decision his name is ron nestle like to bring him in here. Obviously were shot this morning i think that you know that the order was shut down the pipeline by a district judge and on and on washington d. C. Has no one to be questioned his authority his ability to do this and im sure hell do every cent possible but if there is a lot of backing for others the code access pipeline which carries almost a half a 1000000 barrels of high quality or kovach you know well to do what is considered the best market United States that oil. Isnt really reliable and as i said is there a lot of discussion back and forth to see if it is fire why but the reality is its got 3 plus years now of operating procedures behind it. Jacqueline good do you want to address some of those he brought up 3 safe years of operating behind him why is it judge in washington d. C. Making this decision about whats happening up in north dakota. Yeah of course judge must work has been the presiding judge over this case you know the almost the entire time and and so you know he very strongly strongly worded stated as i did then he provided lesions that have been ongoing and and i think that what this illustrates you know is the conflict between even the the the political existence in creation of states in this country right states or the creation of a state is predicated on the extinguishment or its you know the extinguishment of sovereignty of tribes and as you saw in the treaty with the fort laramie treaty you know everything you know a good a good chunk of the sea of north dakota west of the Missouri River in south that part river but is part of the greats you nation and there are other charities that also you know they claim to other parts of north dakota if those treaties were honored north dakota would look like a spider web and so the you know and this is true of many states right so what you see always is that the state is always in conflict with the tribes when the state is powerful the tribes are weak when the tribes are powerful the state is weak the very and i think that americans need to think about that like what does it mean what is there you know what is there everyone talks about states as if theyre the sort of prosaic beings that came into existence somehow or all member you know arizona ends and coloradans but what does that really mean it what does a state really need and it means the suppression of native sovereignty and the taking of resources at will and this is what what his statement is referring to is their right to do so and you have a book coming out called standoffs county rock the Body Movement and the american story of occupation sovereignty and the fight for sacred lands and i really use those to stand up to show you know where one stand up is sort of given the bundys theyre given a lot of leeway to do what they want to do but when when when an armed native people and their allies stand up you merely see that this is a military occupation because the military occupation is then made visible by the response and we even saw that just recently on the 4th of july. You know i just sat in to think. Theres much room for criticism of the trip illustration here but this is what the Obama Administration if we can show my computer this is what the Obama Administration look like its an iraq and youre right that that does look different than the bundy response and that does look like occupation joy i saw you shaking your head there when he mentioned 3 safe years of operation that you have something to say to. Him thank god boney. Has them there is really safe years of operation went north dakota did was they expanded the amount of gallons that that you actually that would leak before they could actually report it so there have been leaks along the decode access pipeline but theyve met that the new threshold which is a larger still you know so theyve left out underneath that before they even have to report it so there have been leaks among the core access pipeline most notably the around the pump station here in south dakota only about 70 miles from where i live but it hasnt been this this this wonderful thing and the other thing we have to remember is that the United States than an oil glut even before the pandemic it was in an oil glut and so right now its even more so and it could act as pipeline they go out of the way down to illinois they meet this and then they hook up onto by a bridge pipeline which goes all the way down into louisiana its export it at this little ti