Joining me now live isjean lee. Shes the former Ap Pyongyang Bureau chief and current co host of the bbc podcast the lazarus heist. Thank you for being back on the programme. Whats the significance of this potential deal between two countries that are becoming even more isolated on the world stage . I think you laid it out. If the two leaders do meet and arrange a deal of some sort, this is a deal that is possibly going to help the russian resident extend that war ukraine by supplying him with munitions and in exchange possibly food that north korea needs, but beyond that, quite possibly technology that north korea needs to take its Weapons Programme to the next level and that certainly has implications that certainly has implications that have a far greater reach because it is about Nuclear Proliferation and so it may be that the leaders meet, they hold a high level summit, lots of pomp and propaganda, but it will be interesting to see what they say about the deals that come up but i have a feeling they will not admit to any kind of a Weapons Dealer which they both know would be Illicit Activity as members of the un. We are watching some footage of previous meetings between the two leaders. What would you make between another potential face to face meeting between kim jong un face to face meeting between kimjong un and face to face meeting between kim jong un and vladimir face to face meeting between kimjong un and Vladimir Putin in russia . North koreas leader rarely leaves the country. This is an interesting development. To provide context, north korea has been in isolation since january 2020 and we assume that is because of the covid pandemic but i believe the reason goes beyond that and that is because Nuclear Talks broke down in 2019 between the United States and north korea and if that is when i started to see north korea retreat, kimjong un korea retreat, kim jong un closing korea retreat, kimjong un closing up bodice, reshape the narrative and strategy and now he is emerging at a time when, frankly, this Border Closure has been so devastating to the economy. There are a couple of things out. He is setting himself up for a reemergence but also he needs to tell his people, listen, we may have been closed off for 3. 5 years but this super palette and ally russia has not forgotten about us. So really, for kimjong un, if he does make this trip, he is looking for those photos that he can take back to north korea. That is a political propaganda, part of it, but clearly that is going to be much more coming out of that meeting that we should be concerned about in the Rest Of The World. Concerned about in the Rest Of The World concerned about in the Rest Of The World. Russia seems to be seekin the world. Russia seems to be seeking weapons the world. Russia seems to be seeking weapons for the world. Russia seems to be seeking weapons for its seeking weapons for its continued war in ukraine. How effective are north koreas weapons . How much might they help russia . On the part of president putin, this is a time where he is increasingly isolated, kind of digging at the bottom of the barrel when he is looking for friends like north korea but north korea is a country that did invest in its military� s conventional weapons for many, many years. Kim jong un has been investing in nuclear weapons. His father invested in conventional weapons, a lot of conventional weapons, a lot of conventional weaponry we are seeing russia use in ukraine and so this is a time of the rare opportunity for north korea to step up and say, hey, we have something you need. North korea has denied supplying these weapons and other types of partnerships but this is an interesting moment where we are seeing this come out and us officials saying we want do know we are seeing this, we are trying to draw attention to it, we know what youre doing. We attention to it, we know what youre doing attention to it, we know what youre doing. We have seen this relationship youre doing. We have seen this relationship between youre doing. We have seen this relationship between north relationship between north korea and russia get a little bit closer. How would that tight Relationship Impact the Rest Of The World . 50. Tight Relationship Impact the Rest Of The World . Tight Relationship Impact the Rest Of The World . So, this is a traditional Rest Of The World . So, this is a traditional alliance, Rest Of The World . So, this is a traditional alliance, it Rest Of The World . So, this is a traditional alliance, it has i a traditional alliance, it has not always been so strong so seeing the restoration of this alliance also serves as a reminder of this global divide between the us and the waste and russia, china and allies like north korea on the other side, isjust deepening but i would say it really comes down to the extension of the conflict and also with this partnership it is going to be so much harder at the Un Security Council for the us and its allies and the waste to really press ahead with more sanctions to stop both russia, china and north korea. And the west. If this doesnt help north korea with its nuclear programme, we should be worried if this partnership is strengthening and it has implications far beyond the peninsula. Implications far beyond the peninsula implications far beyond the peninsula. , ~. Peninsula. Thank you so much forjoining peninsula. Thank you so much forjoining us. Peninsula. Thank you so much forjoining us. Thank peninsula. Thank you so much forjoining us. Thank you. My colleague Catriona Perry spoke with evelyn farkas, former Deputy Assistant secretary of defense for russia, ukraine, and eurasia. They discussed that kim putin meeting, plus ukraines latest Military Shakeup and the conference shes attending on putin, in tbilisi, georgia. Ifi if i can start with a story that the New York Times is reporting that kim jong un is to travel to russia to meet with Vladimir Putin to discuss weapons and to be given to russia to help with the war in ukraine in exchange for satellite and submarine technology and food aid for north korea. You have been to north korea. You have been to north korea, what you make of this breaking story . This breaking story . Well, i would say this breaking story . Well, i would say first this breaking story . Well, i would say first of this breaking story . Well, i would say first of all, this breaking story . Well, i would say first of all, it this breaking story . Well, i would say first of all, it is l would say first of all, it is sort of pathetic that russia has to rely on north korea for weapons. This one is a great superpower relying on its small, veryjunior partner, if you will, under communism, and now of course they continue to have a convenient relationship and russia is a member of the Security Council, russia was on the Security Council and voted for all of the sanctions on north korea for their Illegal NuclearWeapons Programme. The World Band North Korea from selling weapons and we dont know sanctions are perfect but this is a very public sanction busting by a Card Carrying Member of the Un Security Council so it is also another one of Vladimir Putin blatant attempt to upend the international order. Can the International International order. Can the International Community. International order. Can the International Community do i International Community do anything about the situation . Well, of course diplomatically they can and they should do everything they can to censure russia and north korea, of course north korea is aiding and abetting a genocidal war being waged against ukrainian people, against innocent civilians, by the russian government. They are of course under pressure from the waste. Trying to get attention from the world with his Weapons Programme and of course russia feels isolated. Vladimir putin is weak, he has been demonstrated to be weak on the International Stage and his Under Arrest Warrant by the International Criminal court and i could go on. And i could go on. Talking about ukraine and i could go on. Talking| about ukraine specifically, president zelensky has removed his Defence Minister as part of his Defence Minister as part of his wider investigation into corruption and that is not to say they have been any charges against oleksii reznikov, he has not been charged presently in any way but what does it mean for the current state of the warrant . I mean for the current state of the warrant . The warrant . I think it is a really positive the warrant . I think it is a really positive sign the warrant . I think it is a l really positive sign because the warrant . I think it is a i really positive sign because i have travelled Around The World, meeting with Defence Ministers from all kinds of countries, urging them to reform, to root out corruption, to make sure the Defence Ministry is are up to Western Democratic standards in many cases and, often time, if they are waging a war and they are reluctant reformers, they will use the war as an excuse and in this case president zelensky did not do that. He took the courageous move to make a move against corruption. The Defence Minister looked ready on day one to do something about it, someone with a Business Background and somewhat with experience in ukraine rooting out corruption in ukraine and privatising a very transparent fashion so i am taking a great deal of encouragement from this that president Zelensky Means but he says. He said still the anticorruption president while he is also a wartime president. Ukraine has a lot of some successes on the counter events in the past week. Does that call that into question now that the Defence Minister has been changed . I that the Defence Minister has been changed . That the Defence Minister has been changed . I think these are two separate been changed . I think these are two separate things. Been changed . I think these are two separate things. I been changed . I think these are two separate things. I am been changed . I think these are two separate things. I am here i two separate things. I am here at the Du Plessis Conference at the Mccain Institute without georgian partners, the epc. Pprc rather. And at the institute. We have had a lot of interesting conversations about the progress of the war and i think that most people believe that the war progressed this far has not been a failure, so it is not a firing because it is not going as president zelensky thought it should proceed. My sense this is truly related to corruption, although of course it is possible he thought he needed some fresh blood and fresh advising on the war as well. Blood and fresh advising on the war as well war as well. You mention you are at the war as well. You mention you are at the conference war as well. You mention you are at the conference in are at the conference in tabriz, georgia, the 15th Anniversary of Russia Invading Georgia and it continuous occupied territory there. Georgia has not impose International Sanctions on russia and in fact it has seen its trade go up with russia since the war began. Do you see that situation, that relationship continuing . Unfortunately, do not see any indications that it is going to change. Georgia now is in a grey zone of its own making, of the governments making, not the governments making, not the making of the georgian people, not the desire of the georgian people but this government is in effect aligning with Vladimir Putin because anna participating in sanctions against russia and they allow goods to flow freely and if this helps the Russian Military effort against ukraine and so that is problematic. The future of georgia is very much in question under this government. In question under this covernment. ,. , government. You mentioned the eu membership, government. You mentioned the eu membership, they government. You mentioned the eu membership, they will government. You mentioned the eu membership, they will make | government. You mentioned the | eu membership, they will make a decision on that by the end of the hour, given the small pace and hitting the goals, do you think georgia will meet that deadline . Think georgia will meet that deadline . ,. ,. , deadline . Again, our georgian colleagues deadline . Again, our georgian colleagues who deadline . Again, our georgian colleagues who have deadline . Again, our georgian colleagues who have been colleagues who have been speaking at this to please the Conference Today and tomorrow as well, they are very pessimistic and they do not believe this government will do the 12 things the European Union is requiring. Most significantly problematic is the deep oligarch isolation. I do not show up how they would do not show up how they would do that. There is one oligarch funding the Main Political Party and is basically buying off opposition and there is a Strong Civil Society pointing all of this out but whether the government has the world to turn against the man that has given them all the power is an open question and one that right now nobody is optimistic about the ansah being yes. Defeating Vladimir Putin when it comes to the warrior cane is the theme of the conference. Can he be defeated . Absolutely but i think the reason we picked defending Vladimir Putin as a theme of our conference because last year it was actually helping ukraine to victory, was a recognition that it will not be enough just to defeat Vladimir Putin or remove graffiti from the political scene but it is pertinent is or trump is, these sicknesses, these authoritarian tendencies, these authoritarian tendencies, the anti human rights regimes, and the power that they exert across the globe, putting their tentacles into democratic societies and other struggling societies and other struggling societies to try and gain advantage, whether it is in africa, latin america, europe orthe africa, latin america, europe or the United States, is what were trying also to draw attention to here. Were trying also to draw attention to here. Thank you so much for speaking attention to here. Thank you so much for speaking to attention to here. Thank you so much for speaking to on attention to here. Thank you so much for speaking to on bbc. Much for speaking to on bbc news. , ~ much for speaking to on bbc news. ~ ,. , talks between russias Vladimir Putin and turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdogan to revive the black Sea Grain Initiative have ended without a deal. Turkey helped broker the agreement alongside the United Nations in 2022 that russia backed out of injuly. Putin stated that russia would only return to the deal once its conditions are met, including removing obstacles its own food and fertilizer exports, and its lack of access to the Swift Financial transaction system. For his part, mr erdogan appeared hopeful that a deal could be reached soon. Meanwhile, ukraine has claimed a russian drone landed on romanian territory, during a series of strikes on a neighboring ukrainian city claims romania denies. During a press conference monday, ukraines foreign minister Dymtro Kuleba said ukraine has photographic evidence supporting its claim, but bbc verify has not been able to authenticate the image. Responding to the claims, romanian foreign minister Luminita Odobescu said of course, there is a risk of accidents or incidents, but for the time being, it was not the case. Its not the first time ukraine