Hardtalk. , ~ a, Espen Barth Eide, welcome you i hardtalk why hardtalk. Thank you, sarah. Why has norway hardtalk. Thank you, sarah. Why has norway decided hardtalk. Thank you, sarah. Why has norway decided to hardtalk. Thank you, sarah. Why has norway decided to recognise l has norway decided to recognise the Palestinian State now . Well, simply put because we think is the right thing to do and we also think its the right time to do it. We always wanted to strive towards a 2 State Solution with the Palestinian State side by side with israel. But until now we used to think that our bilateral recognition would have to come at the end of a process but we changed our view looking at the deplorable situation on the ground, not only everything that has happened over the last seven months, but over the last years, when no Real Progress to place a now we join all the countries in saying we want to lift the status of the palestinians to have a better balance in the final negotiations with israel will have to happen at some point. So this is a strong support for a 2 State Solution, a strong support for the moderate forces, and a strong reminder that there are still people who believe that talking is better than killing and that a 2 State Solution can be achieved on the basis of the mission of Mutual Recognition. Basis of the mission of Mutual Recognition recognition. Israels Foreign Minister 2 recognition. Israels Foreign Minister 2 history recognition. Israels Foreign Minister 2 history Will Minister Z history will remember spain, norway, and ireland decided toward a gold medal to the hamas murderers and rapists, who raped teenage girls and burnt babies. How do you respond to that . Id you respond to that . Id totally and you respond to that . I� c totally and vehemently disagree with his reading of this. We are trying to do the exact opposite. We reacted very strongly to the horrible acts of hamas on 7 october and we have deplored that in this terrible situation that have been speaking. We think the whole battle in the middle east, the violence, the terror in israel, the extreme response from israeli gaza and the sadler violence in the west bank all combined just reminds us that we have to get back to the tractor with a 2 State Solution. So this is a handshake to the moderate forces, not to hamas or the extremist, exactly the opposite. And we do this not only as bilateral recognition, but also as support to what is known as the Arab Peace Initiative, which tries to build a regional context around progress towards a Palestinian State. ,, � state. Crosstalk. He state. Crosstalk. He says state. Crosstalk. He says about state. Crosstalk. He says about peace | state. Crosstalk. He says about peace but you know hamas has welcomed this move. They say these are successive recognitions of this brave resistance and the steadfastness of the Palestinian People. Their Political Bureau member has said that. Which is why israel said that. Which is why israel said it rewards terrorism. We know and said it rewards terrorism. We know and you said it rewards terrorism. Know and you know and israel knows that this was also very early welcomed by the palestine authorities, by the plo, by that are, by all of those who believe in a Palestinian State living together with israel. These are the people we support. We also saw that there was some statements from hamas but this is actually an anti hamas move, because we disagree with macarons programme of destroying israel. We believe that those currently in charge of the state of palestine who believe the 2 State Solution is possible and those of the people we support and they are very happy they came out with rejoicing this decision. Crosstalk. You say this is about supporting other palestinians, but norway hasnt prescribed hamas as a terror group, as the United Kingdom and United States have done, has it . We have said states have done, has it . We have said that states have done, has it . Have said that what happened on 7 october is terror. It is when a Group Carries out an act of terror it is terrorism, absolutely. But norway does not have a separate list because norway believes that speaking to people you very strongly disagree with is sometimes important. Thats why we try to be helpful to release hostages, for instance, and in many cases we have been communicating messages between people who dont speak to each other directly. This is actually very little to do with this because our firm support over decades has been to the palestine authorities that came out of the plos promise, which they have kept, by the way, to lay down arms, to the violence, and work with the peaceful settlement with israel. Crosstalk. You talk about communicating. You talk about communicating. You are in communication with Espen Barth Eide . 50. You are in communication with Espen Barth Eide . Espen barth eide . So, we communicate Espen Barth Eide . So, we communicate between Espen Barth Eide . So, we communicate between several groups in the middle east, that is one of. Groups in the middle east, that is one of is one of. Crosstalk. Including is one of. Crosstalk. Including hamas . Is one of. Crosstalk. I Including Hamas . Including hamas, Including Hamas . Including hamas. Not Including Hamas . Including hamas, not on Including Hamas . Including hamas, not on a Including Hamas . Including hamas, not on a political. Hamas, not on a political level. It is helpfulfor those countries who cannot do it themselves but still want messages to be presented. There are many countries of the world, not in mm, and appreciate some people have these conversations. If. Appreciate some people have these conversations. These conversations. If, as a result of these conversations. If, as a result of the these conversations. If, as a result of the palestinian result of the Palestinian State, if hamas were elected, as they have been in the past, norway would recognise that . Well, listen, as was trying say earlier, there is now an Arab Peace Initiative which spells out several aspects of what is needed to end up with a peaceful solution, recognition of palestine is one of them, normalisation between israel and arab states, Security Guarantees for israel, Demobilisation Of Hamas and all the militant groups as part of that. And this is presented by countries who detest hamas, who really are worried about iranian interests in the region, who want to come back to a situation where you can have normal relations between moderate arab states and israel. So this is clearly a part of a process which is very much anti hamas. In my experience in the world is that many countries who have seen valence when eventually political settlements are found, people who used to be labelled as terrorists and they are re identifying later as politicians, cannot preclude that will happen here, just as in northern ireland, for instance, or in spain but it is an absolute prerequisite that nonstate armed groups are mobilising. Mobilising. One of the difficulties mobilising. One of the difficulties is, mobilising. One of the difficulties is, and mobilising. One of the difficulties is, and i. Mobilising. One of the difficulties is, and i imagine you will have known that this would be israels reaction, that recognising a Palestinian State, they say, will lead to more terrorism and more instability in the region and jeopardise any prospects for peace. Do you recognise that . So i am aware and i was aware that israel would not like this. We are in frequent contact with israel. We informed them beforehand. We wanted them to know, of course, because we want to be transparent, norway is a friend of israel, but we also openly disagree on this news, because this is really government of Benjamin Netanyahu, the most right wing Israeli Government ever, have not really lifted the finger to move towards a peaceful settlement when they have either allowed or created more illegal settlements with their contribution between their contribution between the conditioning for palestinians. So we are certain that what we are doing is coming our view, the right thing to do. Not only for palestine and also for the interests of the israeli people interests of the israeli people in the long run, because i believe, my israeli friends, when they tell me they want to remain a jewish state and a Democratic State and, to be frank, its very difficult to be both if you dont also sell the palestinian issue. fits be both if you dont also sell the palestinian issue. The palestinian issue. As far as israel the palestinian issue. As far as israel is the palestinian issue. As far as israel is concerned, the palestinian issue. As far as israel is concerned, are l the palestinian issue. As far i as israel is concerned, are you suggesting that this is also about to put pressure on Benjamin Netanyahu on the governments for the government to change . Governments for the government to chance . ~. , governments for the government to change . To change . Well, i have noticed is clearly in to change . Well, i have noticed is clearly in the to change . Well, i have noticed is clearly in the public to change . Well, i have noticed is clearly in the Public Domain l is clearly in the Public Domain that there are increasing and deep divisions even in the netanyahu war cabinet were some ministers have been saying that continuing a war without a clear idea what will happen after a political outcome is very problematic. And i agree with them. And they think that speaking, if they may also speaking, if they may also speak as a former defence minister, along with wiebes Foreign Minister, the key rule of the use of Military Forces that there always be a political purpose. Just destroying things doesnt take you anywhere. You need to have a list outcome and that seems to be lacking in the current strategy because just Exterminating Hamas and believing the terrorists will never come back will simply not work. I think most Military Experts will agree with that. So you also think about what you do next and this is what we are trying to contribute to, together with a number of other european estates and i am, by the way, that other european states will follow this example. States will follow this example states will follow this example. States will follow this examle. �. , example. Do you want Benamin Netanyahu i example. Do you want Benamin Netanyahu out i example. Do you want Benamin Netanyahu out of i example. Do you want Benamin Netanyahu out of Israels Netanyahu out of israels government . Br; Netanyahu Out of israels government . Netanyahu out of israels government . Netanyahu out of israels rovernment . J. , , government . By all means this is u to government . By all means this is up to the government . By all means this is up to the Israeli Government . By all means this is up to the israeli people government . By all means this is up to the israeli people to i is up to the israeli people to decide. You know, a campaign for my party and they allow other people to choose their leaders. But they do recognise that the current government is probably the least 2 state Solution Family we have seen in israel over the last three decades and they can say that because we have been working with all of them since the oslo accords with Yitzhak Rabin and shimon paris from 1993, there is little left of that in the Current Situation in israel. Having said that. They want to see very clearly that they have a deep empathy with the psychological state and minds of many israelis after the horrible attacks that happened on 7 october. They understand that that has brought many people will into survival mode. Having the same is happening now on the gaza strip where people are fleeing for their lives from starvation and the terrible situation. I think at this Point Friends Of Israel also friends of palestine need to try to think clearly when dax is not necessarily happening on the ground but thatis happening on the ground but that is what were trying to do in this conflict. In this conflict. Crosstalk. You will know in this conflict. Crosstalk. You will know your in this conflict. Crosstalk. You will know your actions i in this conflict. Crosstalk. I you will know your actions will unite israelis around the Prime Minister. It will be less likely that he will be asked to as a result of this. As a result of this. No, but they did as a result of this. No, but they did not as a result of this. No, but they did not say as a result of this. No, but they did not say he as a result of this. No, but they did not say he should| as a result of this. No, but i they did not say he should be ousted, that is up to the israeli. Ousted, that is up to the israeli. Israeli. Crosstalk. But you israeli. Crosstalk. But you dont israeli. Crosstalk. But you dont think i israeli. Crosstalk. But you dont think it| israeli. Crosstalk. | but you dont think it is possible under this government and if you are after peace how can you argue that what you have done and is likely to lead to peace . To peace . Well, we think strengthening to peace . Well, we think strengthening the to peace . Well, we think. Strengthening the position to peace . Well, we think strengthening the position the palestinians have of the palestine authorities, of the plo and legitimate representatives of the Palestinian People will create a new hope that an alternative to violence is possible. That is good for palestinians, that is good for palestinians, that is good for the israelis. It is my Firm Conviction and we have been working on this for decades from the norway side, working with a lot of other countries, with many friends and contracts in israel and palestine and in the region and this is our view. That view, yes, i know is different from some of the other ministers in the Israeli Government. I respect the difference, but im also open about our disagreements. Why now . Frances disagreements. Why now . Frances foreign disagreements. Why now . Frances Foreign Minister. Disagreements. Why now . I frances Foreign Minister has said france does not consider that the conditions have yet been met for this decision to have a real impact on this process, which is why they havent done what youve done. So, every country has to make its own choice, but we have joined forces here with spain and ireland deny Willow Tree Mungy back in the early 1990s there was a Madrid Conference which was a direct precursor to the late oslo agreement, so the Madrid Oslo Tract was active ben two countries that launched that, known later as oslo, to lift this to a new level, know that many of the countries are considering this and i have to see a have been speaking to the French Foreign minister about this question. They know they are also considering. But we think they should be context around it, that context is the arab police plan with increasing support of a number of european states, which sees recognition of palestine, not a separate thing, because it is absolutely true that on its own it does not solve a single problem, but in the context of regional normalisation and strengthening of the palestine authority, of Demobilisation Of Hamas and all these other elements in the arab peace plan we think that thats a good context in which this is right. Which is why spain, ireland and always they were not doing it today, we doing it next week. Things will look markedly different next week . We will have a clearer different next week . We will have a clearer picture different next week . We will have a clearer picture of different next week . We will have a clearer picture of the| have a clearer picture of the developments of this arab peace plan, and i think that we were gradually rallied more people to say that we have to get out of this horrible mess which leads to fear of terrorism in israel, extreme violence in gaza. It isjust israel, extreme violence in gaza. It is just t