Transcripts For CNNW CNN 20240704

For first time in this countrys history a former president of the United States has been charged with felonies committed while he was president. This one is about the threat to our democracy. Targeted, obstructing a Bedrock Function of the u. S. Government. The government has had three years to investigate this and now they want to rush this to trial in the middle of political season. What does that tell you . He oversaw or directed the activity of those involved supposed to protect our country, support our country, support our constitution and protect our constitution. This indictment goes to the heart of our democracy. Behind the scenes hes very angry, much more rattled than hes projecting. Politically motivated and election interference at its finest. We need to recognize that he needs to be held accountable. Donald trump failed the country and put his own interests over those of the United States. As you can see theres so much to get to this morning, were glad youre with us on cnn this morning. History was made in another indictment in the former president. This one is different. No question. Regardless of how you land on what it entails. This is story today, the historic third indictment of the former President Trump. Were covering all of the angles, the details of the indictment. The new defenses by trumps team. When will we see a trial . Lets begin with caitlyn. You were reading this during the break. Theres tomorrow. We look ahead to what happens tomorrow if trump will appear in person, what this hearing will be like . Poppy and phil, it will be start of the case formally in court now that this indictment is unsealed and we have it. U. S. V. Trump in the u. S. District court, were still waiting on some sort of de about exactly hoth is going to play out in court l donald trump be appearing in person, we believe he very well would because thats what happened in Southern District of florida where he was charged separately related to classified documents. But in this situation he has a Court Appearance tomorrow, hes being summoned to court and hes going be appearing before magistrate judge, a judge thats only going to be listening to him and hearing from him for the initial process of this court case and then the case gets into the heart of the proceedings as it leads up to trial, it goes to a different judge, the Federal District judge who will oversee this to trial out of d. C. You were the first one to key on from what i saw yesterday, of her importance and what shes done on the past on specific issues related to the foer president. The judge is a very wellknown, espected judge in d. C. But shes also a judge with a reputation as someone who has become a very harsh sentencer specifically relating to january 6th rioters. The reason is that many judges in the d. C. District court do believe that the rioters on january 6th deserve to face significant consequences and that theres a role that the judges play to prevent another attack, specifically looking forward to 2024, shes talked about 2024 and the threat that these Rioters Po Bore and during sentences. Shsaid to one rioter, she said he didnt go to u. S. Capitol out of any love for our country, he went for one man, one man in that sentence would be donald trump. And so, she not only had has handled these cases, she has handled a case from donald trump before, trying to stop his records from his white house going to house congressional investigators and he said he absolutely couldnt do that. She handled that drove of information. There are six coconspirators, alleged, we know the identity of five of them, were also hearing from some. These six different individuals we have identified five of them. The names youre very likely to recognize who were working with donald trump after the election. To Carry Forward this Disinformation Campaign that hes now criminally charged with conspiring to do and those people are Rudy Giuliani, jo eastman, sidney powell, kenneth and jeffrey clark, a lawyer and also a Justice Department official, those individuals not only were working to Carry Forward the disinformation but take on aspects that donald trump was alleging to use different aspects, they were all involved in different aspects of what donald trump was trying to do after the election. The sixth coconspirator is not named at this time. We dont know the persons name. All of these people are not charged, however that doesnt mean that this investigation has ended. Heres what jack smith the Special Counsel said yesterday. Since the attack on our capitol the Department Of Justice has remained committed to ensuring accountability for those responsible for what happened that day. Our investigation of other individuals continues. So the investigation is ongoing, clearly a signal to some of these conspirators they could face charges in the future and john eastman sending out a statement acknowledging that hes indicted he will go to trial. Thank you for the reporting. Lets walk through the indictment with ellie honig. Lets start with charges. We have an indictment. The january 6th case as shorthand. If you look at the way jack smith has charged this case its so much more about what led to january 6th, 2021. Three separate conspiracconspir. Conspiracies an agreement between two or more people to violate the law. Defraud the United States here of a free and fair election, the same law that prosecutors sometimes use to charge someone who has stolen money from the United States government, from Social Security or from the irs. Then we have this conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding. Here, thats the electoral vote count. Finally, this conspiracy against Constitutional Rights that we discussed. That right was the right to cast your vote and to have it counted. This is really taking a very broad view and vast majority of this indictment focuses on the leadup to january 6th. Take us inside the indictment itself. The indictment breaks down into five chapters and it all starts with the false claims of Election Fraud that indict alleged trump disseminated his claims. The indictment puts donald trump at head of that and cites two coconspirators Rudy Giuliani and sidney powell. Chapter two, sevenstate strategy to pressure state and local officials in these states, put together this slate of fake electors. They tried to weaponize the Justice Department. Another cocon spore or the jeffrey clark. To open up phony investigations of claims and to pressure states as well. Chapter four, of course, they tried to pressure mike pence to unilaterally throw out electoral votes. Finally the actual attack on the capitol. The indictment said donald trump exploited the attack in order to redouble his efforts to try to pressure congress. Thats the way the indictment tells the story. Its been about 17 hours, please detail the calendar. Well be using this graphic a lot. The manhattan d. A. Case, the statelevel case for payment of hush money is scheduled for late march, through to april. The other federal case, maralago, is scheduled to may, carry through june july. I dont see a lot of space for this is to go, this is fluid. Very high stakes. This morning, new reporting on how conversations between trump and pence, his Vice President at time, provided really key evidence for prosecutors. You see it through this indictment. Asking the judge to rule that the Vice President had the authority to reject electoral votes, the indictment said quote,he Vice President responded there was no constitutional basis for such authority and that it was improper and in response the defendant told the Vice President , quote, youre too honest. Lets bring in Maggie Haberman who knows trump world better than anyone. Whats the feeling from the former president this morning in trump world . Theyre pretty angry, which should not surprise anyone. Weve seen get progressively angrier as these indictments have been coming. In this one particular theres a sense of indigs you around it. Theyre looking at how they can maximize this politically if nothing else. Maggie the biggest question i have, mark meadows the former white house Chief Of Staff was not an unnamed coconspirator, references to him, some new things tied to him in the 45 pages its not clear whether or not hes cooperating, the big question, wherats your sense where mark meadows sits in this. A huge question. Not just for us but for people around trump and trump has had a lot of questions about whats going on with mark meadows as well. Youre correct, clearly shades of meadows in various pieces of this indictment. Meeting your legal requirements and then theres cooperating being a fullblown witness whos aiding the case in a certain way, i have no reason to believe that meadows is doing that and theres not a ton that he was doing that. The absence of him is certainly notable. A lot from mike pence. You see him in various places. Notes provided t d by him under subpoena. You speak a little bit more about the role former Vice President mike pence played in this indictment. In the indictment, theres new stuff there about his interactions with the president and what the president said to him and what the president said to other people about basically i got it. Ill handle pence. That, that to me is one of the most interesting pieces of this indictment, you have trump saying this was new information, trump saying to someone else who said should other people go talk to mike pence, and trump said, i ive got it, im paraphrasing, im talking to the Vice President. That was interesting. Much of what we know from the pence trump conversations has been out either through the House Select Committee or media reports but there were more details, notes that this was based on that pence provided under subpoena, you have pence saying to trump in one conversation that he doesnt have the authority to do what trump wants and trump is noted saying youre too honest, that was in pences book last year, lots of detail about trump calling pence at various points. Maggie a default sense this will help the former president in the republican primary a huge boon to his fundraising efforts. Over the course of the last several days the significant costs these indictments have brought in terms of legal fees and the fact that hell have to run in a general election, how does the campaign feel about how sturdy they are at this point . Look, theres a concern about money around trump. Its been going on for quite some time. Hes not doing a lot of rallies among the reasons theyre incredibly expensive, running a different kind of campaign this time he cant use Campaign Fees for lawyers as far as i know i believe that most Campaign Finance experts say you cant do that at the moment. Theyre starting a Legal Defense fund. Youre right this has been a huge drain of resources generally, theres concern about it. You know, were less than six months from the Iowa Caucuses if trump is the nominee they believe theyll get the money they need. Everything with trump is about surviving increments of time. Maggie, stay with us. Want to bring in the panel. After the break well bring in the panel. Jack smith is looking for a speedy trial for donald trump, more on when that could take place. Well discuss with our group of experts. Right after the break. Stay with us. Chevy sisilverado has what it takes to do it all. With up to 13 cacamera views. And the z71 offroad p package. You ok . Yeah. Any truck can help you make a living. This one helps you build a life. Chevy silverado. My most important kitchen tool . My brain. So i choose neuriva plus. Unlike some others, neuriva plus is multitasker supporting 6 key indicators neuriva think bigger. Birds flyin high, you know how i feel. Breeze driftin on by. You know how i feel. You dont have to take. [coughing]. Copd sitting down. Its a new dawn,. Its a new day, its time to make a stand. And im feelin good. Start a new day with trelegy. No oncedaily copd. 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[ applause ] the day you get your clearchoice dental implants changes your struggle with missing teeth forever. It changes how you eat, how you feel, and how you enjoy life. It changes your smile and how others smile at you. Clearchoice Network Doctors have changed over 100,000 lives with dental implants, and they can change yours, too. Because a clearchoice day changes every day. Schedule a free consultation. Our focus is on the fact that this is an attack on free speech and political advocacy and theres nothing thats more protected under the First Amendment than political speech so at the end our defense is going to be focusing on the fact that we have now is an administration that has criminalized the free speech and advocacy of a Prior Administration during the time that theres a political election going on. That was trumps current attorney in this case slamming the Special Counsel jack smith and his team of prosecutors over this latest indictment of President Trump, hes scheduled to appear at federal courthouse tomorrow for his hearing. We have elle honig here and Scott Jennings and van jones. Also with us again, cnn political analyst and senior the New York Times political reporter Maggie Haberman. Where this goes from here is question of timing, what it means for the election, what stands out to you most from this indictment that you didnt know before . Well, its interesting. Okay, theres a lot that we knew before and thats notable. Most of whats presented in here is information that has been in the Public Record for quite some time. It was always criminal. The simple fact is its now put in a legal document. A few things, one, about how were now criminalizing speech which is the defenses defense. Now, if youre thinking of this indictment as the january 6th indictment, this is all about criminalizing the events of that day you could make an argument its about the speech the president gave, but no, this was an effort stretching back months and seven states in which there was an effort to undermine an entire american election. Thats not speech, thats a crime. And its a very easy argument to say that, well, now, were being so weaponizing and criminalizing the president as a candidate. Its far more than that. I think its a really important point. The charge is here he is continuing to spread the fraud. Not about incitement and some of the republican candidates i should say have tried to sort of use the i think misleading argument theyre trying to punish him for his speech on the ellipse thats not the case, this is about fraud and c cons conspiracy. To that point, they could have charged Seditious Conspiracy or inciting a mob, they would have been incredibly difficult to prove. And legally shaking, having a difficult time saying the president conspired with rioters to hinder american law. This was a much tighter document. Scott, i understand you dont work for him anymore, Senate Minority leader mcconnell hasnt said anything. Im pretty sure he has internet wherever he is, to get something out, but i thought of throughout the day yesterday was his speech after the second impeachment, the president was not convicted in the United States senate where he made very clear he didnt believe constitutionally it was possible to impeach a former president out of the office but thats what the Justice Department is for. Lot of republicans have shifted on that stance. Why . Its interesting, theres an emerging argument on the right, even the antitrump right, wall street journal, national review, these are all people who have said we want to move on from trump, nominate someone else, trump is bad, he shouldnt hold this presidency again, emerging idea that this indootment isnt very strong, that this is dangerous based on what. It criminalizes speech. In other instances even in the past or in the future is this a blueprint for criminal idesing the speech of people who say, i dont know, want to toss out of the electors for george w. Bush or a future election, im surprised to read it to be honest, some of the voices prominent conservative voices urging the party to move on. To come out against this indictment was stunning to me. Indicative of where most republicans are or theyre seeing something in this that tells them according to their own values this is a step too far. They all still argue that donald trump shouldnt be anywhere close to the oval office. I suspect some of the politicians you referenced would say the same. Count four, count four says is about rights, conspiracy to violate rights and the rights hes talking about s the right vote count, you know, African Americans stand in very long lines to vote. We the idea that somebody is just going to throw our votes away which was what trump was trying to do, he didnt want to lose office or face, its an after front, someone stood up on that front, your votes matter and count. Now, this mix theyre trying to do on the right to say, well, you know, youre punishing somebody for speaking, listen, speaking is part of any crime, right, go kill my neighbor, im just speaking, all im doing is speaking. No, what youre doing is speaking into existence acts that are criminal. Everybody has to go to class, got to get a law degree, all this stuff, why, because donald trump is carrying us into territory that the founders and framers never thought wed be in. Maggie, john laro knows that there are limits to the First Amendment. Is it going to be the same argument in court . I think thats going to be part of the argument, also going to be an argument, a few that he laid out one of which he said something to the effect i would be interested to see a jury prove Beyond A Reasonable Doubt, or convinced Beyond A Reasonable Doubt that trump didnt believe there was widespread fraud. I think this is going to be laid out in court. Im not sure how compelling an argument this is free speech is going to be because the there has always been limits on free speech. Mindset theyll lean into pretty heavily and that depends on what other evidence the Justice Department has. We have no idea. We dont know what evidence they have. A lot more about that going forward, publicly and politically, youll hear this free speech argument, its something that excites the base and a lot of republicans feel like they can come and defend a lot of this for republicans has been bluntly contorting themselves, im talking about elected officials and some pundits to contort something they condemned in realtime as terrible isnt actually crim criminal. 36 mentions of knowingly, i heard from people last night who said we didnt necessarily see anything brand new that gets to that point in terms of evidence or what prosecutors collect zmrd im a paper guy, another word that appears in there, the word deceit is where the allegation is to trick other people. Page 30 of the indictment references the point at which donald trump said i think we have to hand this over to the next guy. The guys who won the election. Hes acknowledged that he lost. Our colleague Alyssa Farah Griffin has testified that he said, i cant believe i lost to this guy. The attorney general, the head of director of National Intelligence all of whom put the president on notice that he lost, what you start is buildig a case reckless disregard. New this morning the first look at trumps Legal Defenses. We talked about it a little bit there as he heads to court for his first appearance tomorrow. One of his former attorneys will be with us. Rsv can be a dangerous virus. [sneeze]. For those 60 and older. Its not just a cold. And if youre 60 or older. You may be at increased risk of hospitalization. [coughing]. From this highly. Contagious virus. Not all dangers come with warning labels. Talk to your pharmacist or doctor. About getting vaccinated against rsv today. With 30 grams of protein. Those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks uuuhhhh. Here, ill take that woohoo ensure max protein, 30 grams of protein, 1 gram of sugar. Enter the 10,000 powered by protein max challenge. Bridgett is here. She has no clue that im here. She has no clue whos in the helmet. Are you ready . Im ready alright. Xfinity rewards creates experiences big and small, and onceinalifetime. Want to go to trial so that instead of debating the issues against joe biden that the President Trump is sitting in a courtroom, how is that justice . The American People want to talk about the issues. What they dont want to do is relitigate the 2020 election. That was just moments ago trump attorney John Lauro Representing the president in this case. Just moments ago on the today show. The Justice Department will seek a speedy trial for former President Trump. With us now is former President Trumps former attorney who played a key role in classified documents. How strong do you see this indictment as being . You know, when i read it through really the key element to me is knowledge. Whether he knew that the claims of fraud were false and i didnt see anything in that indictment that really spoke to that point. You know, it was kind of more of a detailed version of what the January 6th Committee tried to do to say, well, he was told certain things by certain people but he was told thats not true by other people and so therefore we wanted him to believe these people but not those people. Tim, to that point, knowingly appears 36 times throughout this and theres specific instances in this where hes detailed in meetings for example one meeting 17 days before the inauguration of joe biden where hes talking about an issue hes being advised not to deal with, well leave that to the other guys, just one of many examples that jack smith outlines here, im interested in your view of what john lauro has put forward in the defense of the former president. Here he was. Our focus is on the fact that this is an attack on free speech and political advocacy and theres nothing thats more protected under the First Amendment than political speech. Mr. Trump is entitled to a defense that government has had three years to investigate this and now they want to rush this to trial in the middle of a political season. John lauro knows theres a limit, theres a limit to free speech and it does not, it does not protect you from committing something thats criminal, is this the argument theyll make in court . Apparently thats what hes saying, i never personally saw the First Amendment issue here because, you know, free speech does have limits and when free speech is tied with an intent to defraud thats criminal. But, you know, for me it always comes back to, was that speech knowingly false . Or was he saying things he believed at the time . Later determined to be false, the question is, you know the night of january 5th, morning of january 6th, did he at that time believe it . So, you know, even when you go to people, Alyssa Farah Griffin who said right after the election. I cant believe i lost. But thats back in november. And a lot happened between november and january, a lot of briefings that he received from his legal team, and so whatever he believed in november isnt as key here as what did he believe on the morning of january 6th. Well, ill just note on page 30 of this indictment the meeting i was referring to with the chairman refers to january 3rd, three days before that when the president said youre right, its too late for us, were going give that to the next guy meaning president biden. Speedy trial . That may be acknowledgment that the Election Efforts arent going to succeed and and its going be a change of power. What i was expecting them to find was some specific evidence, you know, some admission on early january that he knew there was no fraud and i didnt see that. Jack smith made a point to say in his Statement Last night that were going to have a speedy trial here, when do you expect that this case will be heard . You know, a case of this magnitude i dont see it Possi Possibilitily going to trial before the election because they included the civil rights count. Theyll have to produce evidence and discovery of basically all of the fraud claims and showing, you know, the defense and then showing the jury that all of these claims Beyond A Reasonable Doubt werent true, that the election, you know, was completely free and fair and just from a volume perspective, you know saying nothing about the other constitutional issues here. I dont see how they can get this case to a jury before the election. Its 15 months away. Trumps legal team can fight things like the prosecutions success leading up to this when it came to accessing certain documents, memos, et cetera, thats one example. Strategically if this were your case would you want this tried fully before the election or n not . The election is kind of you know, as a criminal attorney its kind of a sideshow, because id look at this case purely from the criminal aspects and am i willing to waive certain motions and waive certain constitutional arguments because i want to rush it before an election . No. The reality is, the criminal cases in the federal system they dont go to trial in 15 months. I think the defense would have to actively forego certain strategies in order to get this case to go before the election. Tim, what does tell you about the six alleged coconspirators in this indictment are for now unindicted. That was surprising to me, you know, youd pect they would indict allf the coconspirators unless they specifically already have some form of cooperatioagreement, what indicated to me was that this indictment was rushed you know, they probably didnt have all of the evidence to be able to indict the other six and, you know, quite f i know that they have Witness Interviews that are scheduled for the next few weeks that go to this knowledge. To bring the indictment yesterday struck me as ill illtimed. I dont know whats going on with this, part of the superseding indictment. I dont know. Its interesting. Definitely an anomaly. John lauro representing the president said he thinks this could have been rubberstamped, his word, a year ago. Tim, thanks very much for the time. Thank you. I do disagree with his assertion at the end that this indictment was rushed. The reason why they didnt charge the six people, give them the chance to flip. To tims point about timing theyre trying to streamline it. If you load up this case with seven defendants you have zero chance of getting it tried before the election. If you limit it to one person you have a Fighting Chance to get it in. Getting inside someones head, as to what he believed at the time versus what he think he believed is the central challenge that the prosecutors are going to have to to your point do you agree with him, he thinks jack smiths team didnt do a good job of getting to intent youre going to have to prove he believed something at the time. Not just that it happened. I think the defense has a plausible argument there, im not saying it wins. Hes naming what will be a central part of the Defense Strategy and thats okay. Guys, stick with us. Well talk about capitol hill lawmakers on both sides of the aisles, not holding back their thoughts on the newest indictment on the former president. Behind the scenes with House Republicans pretty fascinating. Well tell you about that coming up next. [baby crying] wherever you go. Wherever you stay. All you need is one key. Earn and use rewards across expedia, hotels. Com, and vrbo. We got the house you did pods handles the driving. Pack at your pace. Store your things until youre ready. Then we deliver to your new home across town or across the country. Pods, your personal moving and storage team. This morning lawmakers on capitol hill divided along party lines over former President Trumps unprecedented third indictment in their january 6th investigation. The democrats supporting the four federal charges. Meanwhile, republicans blasting the indictment as partisan justice and an attempt to distract from Hunter Bidens ongoing legal issues. What we have seen throughout the first two indictments. Lauren, Behind The Scenes the coordination with the trump team in advance of this that caught my eye, the preparation, trying to keep everybody together inside the republican conference. Reporter phil, if it feels familiar at least the statements themselves, its because they are. We have seen very similar sentiments coming from House Republicans over the course of the last several indictments that trump has fac. Youre right, Behind The Scenes ordition is so compelling here, because it wasnt just a couple of hours of conversatio it was weeks in the ki, thats because Donald S Team knew or guessed tha was coming in short order and they continued to shoreup support making sure they had that robust defense coming yesterday from the House Republicans. I want to take a minute to point out what we saw from House Republicans is different from what we saw from Senate Republican leaders. This isnt just about this moment or this indictment. Its also about who in the Republican Party is going to be the face of the party moving forward and you see republicans senators wanting to turn the page a bit and thats coming from republican leader Mitch Mcconnell, john thune who didnt put out statements last night supporting former President Donald Trump and you pointed it out a few times this morning. Ill point it out once again, after mcconnell voted to acquit donald trump in February Of 2021 when they were moving through that Impeachment Trial in the senate he came to the floor and he gave a speech talking about the fact that despite the fact he voted for acquittal there was nothing in the Justice Department and Law Enforcement that barred trump from potentially seeing some kind of implications for his actions in the future. I want to point out even though we havent heard from mcconnell we can think about that statement he made back in 2021. Lauren, for clarity, if the Senate Minority leader wanted to make a statement he could probably do that, right in. Exactly. No Internet Connectivity issue. I just think that this is what weve seen time and time again, he does not talk about Donald Trumps legal issues but if he wanted to support the former president he certainly could do that. Lauren fox, thanks so much. Youre very concerned about connectivity issues of leading republicans at this point. I care. I want people to talk and converse. Theyre not going to be in session for a while. They can put out a statement. I know. Their words carry a lot lot of weight. The criminal indictment places former President Trump at the center of multiple conspiracies to keep himself in power. Well be joined by former republican congressman Adam Kinzinger who was leading the january 6th commission, how his party is reacting to all of this in the indictment. When moderate to sevevere Ulcerative Colitis takes you off course. 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That call took place at the same time as Rudy Giuliani was on the phone with republican senators encouraging them to contest Election Results and the prosecutors allege that allegation confirms more specific detail what cipollone told the house January 6th Committee. Lets play that. If your question is, did i belief he should concede the election at a point in time, yes, i did. With us now is one of two republicans who served on the house January 6th Committee, Adam Kinzinger, thank you for being with us. You spent so many months, so much detailed work and credit to you guys for pushing a lot of this forward. I wonder what you read in this indictment, what stood out to you that you didnt know. Well, not a ton i didnt know. Our committee was able to get down to the bottom of a lot of this. I think bringing out the unindicted coconspirators is very interesting. That, to me, is interesting to see. Some of these people, i think that doj was able to talk to, of course, people that resisted the committee. So there will be some information in a lot of the details. But for me its satisfying to actually see because Mitch Mcconnell wrote down what he said at one point. He said when he didnt vote to remove trump. He said trump didnt get away with anything yet. We have a criminal Justice System in the country and former president s are not immune. Yes, he escaped justice when it came to impeachment because there was lack of courage on the political side to see that he is coming under justice now is important for the country. Congressman, poppy referenced this at the top. I was not aware of the timeline that is detailed between about six and eight p. M. When the former president and Rudy Giuliani were continuing, after the attack on the capitol this started to finally get under control, be put down, were continuing with phone call after phone call after phone call to lawmakers asking them to continue to delay the events. Were you aware of that . Because that struck me, and, frankly, was slightly enraging as somebody who is in the capitol. Did you know those calls were occurring . Not all the details and how many. We knew during the attack, Rudy Giuliani was still making calls. We knew he was making that effort. I dont know when he called, and they said i cant talk, i am hunkered down here. He is like, okay, well, you know, calls the next person. So, yeah, its kinda cold because you think of Rudy Giuliani, you know, americas mayor after 9 11 thats not only not caring about this really craziest attack since 9 11 to happy in happen in the count he is fueling it. And i think this will come out more when we get all the details, is during the 100 some minutes, 187 minutes that donald trump that the attack on capitol was happening, donald trump isnt just he is not just sitting there doing nothing. He is proactively resisting not just temptation, but demands from people to stop this. You know, donald trump is not very good at resisting, like, kind of his emotion or resisting what the last person says to him. He, for three hours, sat there and actively didding in until he saw that the attack was not gonna work. When he saw that Law Enforcement had actually tipped the scales in favor of Law Enforcement, only did did he begrudgingly say go home. Until then he was waiting to see if this would succeed. Could we talk about mike pence . We will have marc short, who advises mike pence, on the program next hour. On Squ January 5th marc short witnessed trump growing so frustrated with the Vice President because he wouldnt do what he believed was and is unconstitutional and that his Chief Of Staff was so concerned about pences safety that he alerted the head of pences security detail. The central role of mike pence in all of this, what stands out to you from this indictment . Look, you know, the Vice President did a good job on that day. I mean, it was his job. So its not he basically did his job on that day. And he did resist temptation, sure. He resisted that pressure from the outside. But since then, i mean, everything the Vice President says is like walking this line between and watch it, every comment, he and even marc short make, he is walking this line of, like, i dont want to tick off the trump people and i also want to appear fairly reasonable. When he talks about this indictment, its in the perspective of i cant way if this is criminal, sure, its wrong. Look, i am not lawyer. Of course, you could say if its criminal. There is a lot of lawyers out there commenting about hunter biden and joe biden that feel okay to say whether things are criminal or not. Of course you can say if its criminal. Mike pence had the opportunity to, i think, a hero to the Republican Party, to be the guy that stood by the trump agenda, but then had enough on january 6th. And i dont know where he stands today. He put out a decent statement. He did a great job that day. But hes got to be the one that leads this party with others away from this insanity. Right now its Chris Christie is the only one thats out there saying the truth. Asa hutchinson, yes, and will hurd. Chris christie is powerfully putting it back to donald trump. Mike pence can play that role, too, but he is not. Its like middle ground. You cant be lukewarm, mike. You have to be hot or cold. And i think thats where we are at as a party right now. Adam kinzinger, we will be talking about the former president mike pences key advisor in the next hour. Appreciate your time, sir. Thank you. You bet. See ya. Well be right back. In higt afford essential school supplies. Subaru and our retailers are there to help by giving millions of dollars in funding along with School Supplieies students need. We call it the Subaru Love Promise and wewe are proud to be the largest corporate supporter of adoptaclassroom. Org. Its just one of the reasons forbes ranked subaru the number one automotive brand for social impact. Subaru. More than a car company. The chase Ink Business Premier Card is made for people like sam, who make everyday products, designed smarter. Like a smart coffee grinder, that Orderfresh Beans for you. I need a breakthrough card. Like ours with 2. 5 cash back on purchases of 5,000 or mor plus unlimited 2 cash back on all other purchases. 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