Meadows. She was in the room for much of the controversy that has led to indictments against donald trump and many others. Right now, she saw trumps behavior firsthand. Knows about the Text Messages sent among circles inside and outside the white house. Republicans who begged trump to do something to stop the riots but those same people would get on tv and make up a case to challenge the 2020 Election Results knowing that trump lost. And Cassidy Hutchison says trump, too, knew he lost. In an interview today, she told me donald trump would be a threat to democracy if he should win again. Take a listen. People have been holding him accountable for the past years but obviously not accountable enough because we are in a position right now where its looking more likely than not that he could be the republican nominee and hes also been indicted four times. To me, its sad were in this place as a country where were looking at somebody who has executed this horrible assault on our democracy and we are continuing to give this person a platform. Thats not what we should stand for as americans and i think that donald trump is the most grave threat that we will face to our democracy in our lifetime and potentially in american history. Again, to underscore that. The Chief Of Staff to the Chief Of Staff in Donald Trumps white house believes that donald trump is the most grave threat to democracy in our lifetimes and potentially in american history. I also asked her about what seemed to be a threat that donald trump recently made on friday to the outstanding chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, general mark millie, a combat veteran of afghanistan in iraq in a post last week referring to his phone calls to his chinese counterparts. Truth wrote on truth social in times gone by, quote, the punishment would have been death in all caps. Exclamation point. I asked her how seriously should americans take these sorts of comments by trump . Take a listen. I do believe he means it. What i would like to say to this is i think for years, we have not held donald trump accountable to the things he says and when he says those things and when he strokes those comments to people who have had profound careers defending our democracy, we need to take him seriously. There was also a moment in the interview when i asked her about the mug shot from georgia of her former boss, white house Chief Of Staff, mark meadows, with whom she was quite close. What goes through your mind when you look at that picture . I see someone that didnt have to be in this position. You know, i, i see that picture and i feel sorry for him in some ways. Because he had a lot of opportunities to do the right thing. And to come forward. You know, hes a man that has a family. Thats also another unfortunate impact of this. When youre in Donald Trumps circle and you have that loyalty to him, it impacts your life in more ways than one can imagine and you know, i, i hope that marks doing the right thing if he hasnt already been doing the right thing as what i define the right thing. In her book out today, enough, Cassidy Hutchison writes about having once been close with now Speaker Mccarthy. In the book, she refers to him as kevin. I asked what she thinks of kevins leadership today. You write about being disillusioned with mccarthy. You say i started to sense a significant shift in kevin. Whats the shift . What happened to him in your view . I think that kevin had an opportunity after january 6th as did mitch mcconnell, as did all the elected officials in congress that are republicans, to denounce what happened on january 6th and work against trump still having a stronghold on the Republican Party. Kevin was fairly outspoken in the days after january 6th about how it was wrong. But then after the former president left office, mccarthy went down to maralago and to me, that was sort of the beginning of that transformation, nothings going to change. You know, i still have a lot of respect for kevin. I hope for the best for him as the speaker. Especially as we see the chaos thats happening on capitol hill right now. But i, im not confident that hes a good leader for the Republican Party because he is a talking head for donald trump. I want to turn now to former National Security adviser, john bolton, who worked during the Trump Administration and of course was warning us about donald trump long before a lot of other people. Ambassador bolton, good to see you. You heard hutchison describing the Trump White House perhaps even more chaotic than our viewers knew. Although for you i would imagine, maybe not so dissimilar from your experience . Yeah, a lot of it sounds like another day at the office but her portrayal, i look forward to reading the book, i think is devastating. Add it to all the evidence thats out there, shows why trump is not fit to be president. He wasnt fit the first time and hes not fit for a second time. What we need is a way to persuade other republicans that the danger that trump poses. She said that trump, in her view, is the greatest threat to democracy in our lifetime. Maybe even in american history. What do you think . No, look, i think its important not to overstate the nature of the threat or understate it. Youve got to be coldblooded about it because if youre off, youre going to propose remedies that are wrong. This is a strong country. The Roman Republic didnt fall overnight. It took cataline then sula then you get to caesar. Though it gags me to think of comparing trump to julius caesar. I think we have got to have faith in the people for the protection of the constitution because the remedies some will propose will be as bad as the cure. But hutchison, her basic argument is that if trump wins again, if trump wins in 2024, he will stock his administration with no guardrails. There will not be a general millie or a general kelly or a general mcmaster or a john bolton. It will be all sycophants. It will be all Steven Millers and sebastian gorkas. Does that argument concern you . Sure. Look, i think its almost certain that the top level of the second trump term will be the bottom level on january the 20th, 2021. And then it will go downhill from there. But the consequence doesnt mean that the government will then be under his control. I think one of the greatest dangers that a second trump term brings would be constitutional crisis. Who is he going to nominate to be Attorney General . And when the Attorney General gi gives an order for trump, say prosecute john kerry for violating the logan act, and the Attorney General asks some of the career people to do that and they say no and resign. And the entire Department Of Justice begins to resign. What happens when he gives illegal orders to the career military and they start to resign . Thats, i think thats what were going to have. Its not so much the threat of trump asserting his authority as the breaking down of institutions. I think a very obvious candidate for Attorney General in the Trump Administration would be the Attorney General of texas, ken paxton. While were on the subject of these hypotheticals, on friday, trump posted to his truth social account basically an argument that outstanding chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, mark millie, in days past, would have been executed because in the closing days of the trump presidency, millie, according to press accounts, learned that china had received intelligence that trump was going to attack and he called china and said were not going to attack you. Please dont think were going to do that. Trump took offense to this. And said you know, hes invoking Capital Punishment for this and we know from the Atlantic Magazine that millie is convinced according to the atlantic, that if trump were to win, he would actually pursue prosecution against him. There are a lot of people who feel that way and do you not think that is a serious proposition, that that would actually happen . Well, i think it is a serious proposition. Youre trying to put me in jail for publishing the book. But the question is just because trump tries to do it, do you think the institutions dissolve . I dont think that happens. I think as long as you still have an independent judiciary, a lot of people may run up a lot of legal fees, but it will result in the country turning against trump and well see how this plays out. You know, hes got to get people confirmed by a senate thats going to be closely divided even if you have a majority of republicans. I think how his nominees fair, many of whom will be grossly unqualified and ken paxton may have faced his own Criminal Trial by then. Its not a fore gone conclusion that trump gets his way. I am opposed to him getting the republican nomination, but even if he does and wins, the battle goes on. Its going to be a costly battle. But i think panicking and assuming the absolute worst underestimates the strength of the constitution and our institutions. Yeah. I just think people need to be clear eyed about what is possible. I want to ask you a question with your National Security adviser and former United States ambassador to the United Nations hat on if you would. If you would humor me. Semifor has a new investigation out detailing how irans government wanted to influence u. S. Policy particularly related to the nuclear deal and the report details how some of the experts who signed on to help iran sell its case ultimately became top aides to robert mally, who ultimately became the Biden Administrations former Special Envoy to iran. How credible and how concerning do you find the report . Well, i find it credible and concerning. I know we dont have much time here. I know the administrations going to try and blow this off and just say oh, theres nothing to it. Let me just say i think based on what we know and we dont know everything, but based on what we know, we are very close to an alger hiss moment here, of somebody the establishment cant recognize as having put the country in danger. He was a harvard law graduate. He clerked on the Supreme Court for Oliver Wendell holmes. People say how can he be a Communist Spy . But he was. I think every reporter who has ever dealt with the Biden Administrations Iran Negotiating Team needs to look in the mirror and say have i been taken in. This is very serious. We need congressional hearings on it and i think if theres any possibility that the administration thinks its going to negotiate any part of getting back into the Iran Nuclear Deal, thats got to be put on dead stop. I know there are a lot of other things going on in congress but this is extraordinarily serious. Ive never seen anything like this in my own diplomatic career. Thats for sure. All right, were going to have the National Security counsel Spokesman John Kirby respond in a second. Thank you so much for your time. Appreciate it. Glad to be with you. This just in. A new york judge has found donald trump and his adult sons liable for fraud. This is part of a lawsuit brought by the new York Attorney general. The judge has found trump, his sons eric and donald jr. And others in violation of new york law. She says they repeatedly engaged in fraud by providing false Financial Statements for roughly a decade. This case will dgo to trial nex week. Coming up, how the words of Cassidy Hutchison could be used in a court of law, and calling on bob menendez to resign. 19 of his fellow Senate Democrats have said he should step down but nothing yet from one notable democrat, president joe biden. I will ask john kirby if its time for the white house to weigh in. Stay with us. To iran and the new report that appears to show the extent of the iranians government soft power and influence campaign inside the United States and europe. The Iran Nuclear Deal negotiations during the Obama Administration semifor alleges the iranian government backed Iran Experts Initiative sought to quote bolster tehrans image on Global Security issues, ta they made the rounds on various Media Outlets to push the need for compromise between the u. S. And iran. Some members of that Initiative Also appeared on cnn. This kind of effort is typical for countries trying to influence Thought Leaders and Decision Makers here in d. C. But the report goes on to reveal that three members of the group went on to serve as top aides for robert mally. Thats the Biden Administrations Special Envoy on iran who was placed on leave in june. Mally did not respond to cnns request for comment. Semafor says the information is based on documents and emails obtained and translated by iran international, a Persian Language Outlet Outside iran. As recently as last, it said one of its reporters was attacked in new york. Cnn has not been able to verify the veracity of the documents. Joining us now to discuss, white house National Security spokesman and retired admiral, john kirby. Good to see you. The state Department Spokesman was asked about the story this afternoon. He brushed it off as Quote Something that happened a decade ago. Thats a little glib. John bolton just called the report credible and concerning. He thinks there needs to be congressional hearings. Whats your response . Is the Biden Administration taking this seriously . Well, this reporting just came out today. So were reading the reporting ourselves and we havent come to any conclusion about the press report itself or its validity. I think were going to have to see where this goes and take a look further at the Press Reporting from semafor. I would add all this aside, the iran deal when signed, did set iran back by many, many months in terms of their breakout opportunity to reach a Nuclear Weapons grade capability and because the Previous Administration tore up that deal, they are now just weeks away from that kind of a breakout opportunity. So the iran deal on its face and in principle, was a good thing for our National Security. But i mean, is the white house even looking into this . Doesnt sound like theyre taking it seriously. I wouldnt say that. The reporting just came out so were just now reading this reporting ourselves. I dont want the get ahead of where were going to be in terms of looking at this Press Reporting but it just came out this afternoon. Were reading through it and i dont have anything to say or announce in terms of next steps here based on this single press report. Okay. Came out this morning. Turning to the indictment of Senate ForeignRelations Committee bob menendez, democrat of new jersey, the Justice Department report says he shared Sensitive Information about the number of american personnel in the u. S. Embassy in cairo. They have, the copies of texts, which he told his now wife and she passed it on to egyptian officials. These allegations and many others, are as of now, apparently Strong Enough for 19 of his fellow Senate Democrats to call on menendez to resign. Is that not enough for the white house to call on him to at least step down from the chairmanship of the Foreign Relations committee . These are serious allegations. We know that. We see that, too. And right now, it is an open investigative matter and were just not going to insert ourselves into that matter. We have to make sure that we can continue to meet our National Security commitments around the world and that includes the relationship we have with egypt, which is critical. So thats what were going to stay focused on. Its your Justice Department making the allegation. I assume you trust that the allegation is accurate. Do you trust that the chairman of the Senate