Its, tuesday, april 23 right now on cnn this morning, day two of testimony in Donald TrumpsHush Money Trial. But first a hearing to determine whether the former president violated the judges gag order new information about promises of a pardon made by trump in his classified documents, case and propalestinian protests erupting on College Campuses in new york and across the country. All right 6 00 a. M. Here in washington. Alive. Look at new york city on this Tuesday Morning worth first donald trump is going to be in court again today. Good morning, everyone. Im kasie hunt its wonderful to have you with us in less than four hours. Were going to have a hearing to determine whether donald trump has violated the judges gag order, possibly as many as ten times in his criminal Hush Money Trial after court adjourned yesterday, trump might have done it again. What are they going to look at all the lives that in the last Trial Court Lying In The Last trial so he got caught lying pure so the issue is that donald trump is under a gag order. He is not allowed to be talking about witnesses in the case. Michael cohen, you could argue, is the star witness that may come with its own challenges but after trumps Gag Order Hearing this morning, jurors will return to the courtroom for day two of testimony. David, the former publisher of national enquirer, will be back on the stand. He is a critical piece of the prosecutions plan to try to prove that trump acted with Criminal Intent when he tried to silence adult film star stormy daniels. Weeks before the 2016 election, our panelists here, former federal prosecutor jean rossi, chief National Affairs correspondent, jeff zeleny, Jonah Goldberg hes cofounder and editor in chief of the dispatch and New York Times journalists lulu garcianavarro welcome to all of gene, let me start with you on the schrag order or question because ive to say that the wall street journal, their lead editorial, tries to make a distinction between the jurors in the case, regular americans, we have to make a decision here. And someone like Michael Cohen, because lets Show Everyone what Michael Cohen had to say on twitter back to donald trump. Im not going to read it just because our discourses is what it is. Im not going to be the beginning of it. He just says your attacks on me, stink of desperation. You can read the rest of it. Were all hoping that you take the stand in your defense. It does seem like there should be a difference between Michael Cohen and the jury pool in terms of what trump is allowed to do, perhaps because cohen is already someone who has been dragged into this very publicly the entire time. Do you see a distinction and how do you think the judge is going to handle it . Okay. I do see a distinction practically because Michael Cohen is poking the bear and hes getting under donald trump skin and thats why donald trump had that little press conference. What bothers me is that when donald trump made that Statement Last night to his left, was his lawyer that troubles me greatly because the because the lawyer is Condoning Conduct that arguably is violating a gag order. And i guarantee you the judge merchan is going to reprimand todd blanche a little bit, but at the end of the de the judge is not going to do anything to donald trump, violate the Gag Or Porter absolutely good lawyer, youre referring to on the left . Exactly. But if it were any normal defendant, hed be cuffed or find. But because its president trump, mr. Trump is going to be a slap on the wrist. When i mean, the fact that were here says so much about i guess everything weve been through as a country for the last few decades. But what do you make of that argument here . Because i mean, nobody really can control jabal, donald trump. I mean, i guess you can hold the lawyer accountable. Yeah. Look, i think thats a microcosm of the larger dilemma his lawyers have, which is that i think the legal strategy almost entirely play is built around trumps ego and branding on this, he doesnt want to concede that he did anything wrong whatsoever, kinda reminds me of the first impeachment where he just my conversation was perfect, not like, hey, you know, maybe i could have phrased it differently. And what you much easier thing for a lawyer to defend. It was perfect, right the legal strategy going into this is trump did absolutely nothing wrong, no affair. Everything was perfect. And thats just a much higher bar with a jury to defend, but its sort of its what donald trump i think is insisting on across the board have to prove right that he actually did it. What they have to prove is that he was you had this intent. And so i am i am i am i getting this right or am i good . Right. Okay. Thank you not the lawyer here thats why just wanted problems. Youre right. What is the legal . And might not work with the public. And so he what he really needs to send a message two is like, look, this is political persecution. I did nothing wrong. Thats the message that he sending to the country. Can i just Say Something . I cant believe that these jurors who are not sequestered are not going to hear a little bit about what hes doing outside the courtroom before the trial. And after the trial. And ill guarantee you youre going to find out after a verdict if it is unfavorable to mr. Trump, youre going to hear that jurors were tainted by Newspaper Articles or things that they should not have seen. How can you cant walk down the street in new york without exactly yeah, the poster that today. But like you just got to see it, i think thats a big mistake. They were not sequestered, even put them in a hotel. They sequester jurors all the time. In this is probably going to be a sixweek trial. If were the eastern district, virginia, itd be two weeks, but its going to be a sixweek trial. They should have been sequestered definitely jeff zeleny. What do you think he is trying to accomplish politically with what hes doing outside the courtroom. Look, hes trying to do what hes been doing, pretty successfully for the last year. Every criminal case has rallied his base and his supporters so hes saying in the hallway, the courtroom, i could be in florida or georgia. The reality is, he doesnt campaign during the week. Anyway i cannot recall a time where theres been a monday Campaign Rally or a tuesday Campaign Rally. So he usually campaigns on weekends. Theres no doubt this is cutting into his Campaign Time to an extent but the bigger thing is hes just trying to again show that he is being persecuted. But what we dont know is theres a different audience now, The General Election audience is different than the primary audience. So i was watching a lot of the coverage of this yesterday on television and watching it on fox, a lot. And they barely talking about it. So Donald Trumps supporters are going to hear one thing. And that is his hallway press conference. They are not going to likely hear a lot of the rest of it. So at the end of the day, we do not know what the politics of this is going to be a for him. But he clearly is growing agitated. And this is just david never mind the other witnesses who are coming during this so do something though when you see this image of him coming out of the courtroom, i dont think this is a good image for him. I mean, this is a drab building its going to be repetitive in terms of the kinds of visuals that you have. Its always the same thing with him standing in the hallway and him looking agitated, angry, and frankly saying the same things over and over it again. I mean, i dont think that this is actually going to help him. Some people argue that this is going to rally his base further. Weve seen evidence of that, but i just dont think that its going to do him any favors in the long term, jonah, if this was televised, would it be better or worse for trump i think probably worse just because seeing him fall asleep is not a great look, right an order this rendition of it just doesnt have the same sort of impact the prosecutor reading the Access Hollywood stuff would have had more impact, but he would have enjoyed him or he may would have stayed awake if the cameras i mean, i think it was unable to. You would look at that Defense Table that is something weve never seen donald trump, at least in the last decade or so. So i agree with jonah. Absolutely worsen can i just add something last thought . Health. Six weeks is a long time. I prosecuted a lot of cases like defended the stress it puts on you as the defendant is enormous. And this is the first couple of days. He doesnt look good. He doesnt really, really given point. All right. Come on up next to your new cnn reporting on an alleged pardon offered to one of Donald Trumps codefendants in his classified documents case, plus campuses across the country disrupted by propalestinian protesters and then. Well have this Dash Cam Video of a dramatic rescue, a man trapped in a burning car on a Minnesota Highway hcm is a serious heart condition affecting as many as one and 200 people like me and me, i was still short of breath on my betablocker. So i talked to my cardiologist and asked about Treatment Advances in hcm that talk made a real difference. It gave me new hope. Talk to your cardiologist today visit atm real talk to learn more home the place where you create those special moments. We celebrate the home and the way you live in it. At threeday blinds, we help you create that special place and because we know youre busy we bring the sjogren to you at your convenience and provided design expert to help you find the perfect solution that fits your style and budget. 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According to notes from an November 2022 interview with the fbi, the former president s boat, people and quote, offered a pardon to his codefendant, walt nauta, in the event that nauta was charged with lying to federal investigators, the notes say this quote, nauta was told by Fpotus People that his investigation was not going anywhere, that it was politically motivated and much ado about nothing now was also told that even if he gets charged with lying to the fbi, fpotus former potus will pardon him in 2024. Nauta was charged last june with lying to the fbi and obstructing special counsel jack smith investigation. Our panel is back. Gene, how significant is this . Because it basically looks like they were telling him, hey, you should lie because will protect you. Absolutely. When i prosecuted cases back in the day the substantive charges were important, i used to love witness tampering. I loved obstruction of justice because i loved it because it goes through their State Of Mind in their Guilty Conscience that is an example of a State Of Mind and Guilty Conscience. Now, heres the problem. Whos people is it, is, it, is it greedo . Whos talking to bhabha, whos talking to donald trump, is there are three layers of hearsay or is it donald trump saying to this person, go tell nada, i got a pardon in my pocket for you we dont know that. Right. It seems difficult to build like a pardon in my pocket for you i mean, jonah, it does seem to suggest that they knew just how bad this was though oh for sure. I think so. I think thats right. Its also worth pointing out, like in the original constitutional debates about the pardon power and mp or the impeachment. It was giving pardons to basically cronies and henchmen for nefarious reasons was cited as one of the causes. One of the justifications for impeachment, even if its not a crime. And remember those debates about how its not a crime. You cant impeach someone for it. This was an example of a non crime that was considered impeachable at the time and it just sort of gets lost in the miasma. Yeah. Jeff, i mean, what does it signal to you about their view of how damaging this case potentially was politically for trump. Look, i think they knew that there are a few people who were more in the orbit, more than than a waltz. I mean, he was at the president side constantly here. And hes one of the examples of someone whos is still beholden to the former president for legal advice, theyre paying his cost of his legal bills. I believe still. And look im missing something that they cant deliver. They dont know that hes gonna be reelected at this point. But it clearly they were trying to, uh, he knows more than most people know because he was with them in mar lago in bedminster, et cetera. So i think thats very revealing. Gene. How does when you have cases like this . I now to sort of relative power to trump is pretty low, right now. Hes right now and so how does that kind of impact what happens with defenses . Excellent question. When you have multiple defendants at a trial and i have you always have the big, big kahuna, if you will, mr. Trump. But if you have a minnow or somebody thats lower level when a jury goes into that Deliberation Room at the end of the day. Theyre going to say, you know what i think hes guilty as sin, but were going to cut this minnow a break, but its bad news for mr. Trump because they will come compromise to let not ago or have a hung jury, but they will focus like a laser beam. Im mr. Trump at the documents trial. Yeah, of course. Thats not exactly how its playing for announces so far, but we shall see jean. Thank you very much for joining us. I really appreciate how many today. Coming up next propalestinian protests breaking out on another new york College Campus. Weve seen some across america as well. And later were live outside the new york courthouse where a hearing is about to take place to determine whether donald trump should be held in Contempt Of Court the white house Correspondents DinnerLive Saturday at seven eastern khan, cnn. Can the riva support your brain health, mary janice, hey, eddie now appraiser, franck. Frank bred. How are you . Fred fuel up to seven brain health indicators, including your memory, joined the neretva brain Health Challenge quinns, we make inexpensive, expensive thing. We know sounds like a paradox but we just flipp