Listen wherever you get your podcasts closed captioning is brought to you by skechers. Go walk pads skechers go on. Pants are breathable and flexible with a comfy, soft feel, plus they have front and rear pile i gets including a hidden zip security bucket. Try sketches affordable, go walk pants good evening. Welcome to cnn special primetime coverage. The trump hush money trial, the first ever criminal trial bill, former president , theres a lot to bring you from a truncated but busy day six. That saw the judge wanted Defense Attorney. Hes losing credibility. Also testimony from david pecker, the former tabloid publisher, who became the Trump Campaigns, eyes and ears. And tonight new reporting and discussions are underway about what to do if the former president is actually jailed for contempt quite a de, a lot to get to judge merchans warning came as trump attorney todd blanche tried to answer prosecution evidenced during Contempt Hearing with the jury, not present, the judge saying, quote, youre losing all credibility with the court, but making no decision on the matter. Then testimony continued from david pecker, who took jurors deeper into the world of catch and kill, detailing how his National Enquirer or sought out stories that might damage the Trump Campaign in order to catch them and then bury them. Afterwards, the cameras rolling viewers watching the former president s spoke out about not being allowed, he believes to speak out a gag, order, which to me is totally i got situation or im not allowed to talk with people are allowed to talk about me so they can talk about me, they can say whatever they want, they can live but im not allowed to sit back look at my conflicted, judge, me to have a table. I dont think anybody is will nor has anyone seen what might happen if hes jail for violating that order, which to be fair does not yet appear to be on the table. Seems unlikely that said theres Breaking News on discussions underway on how that might work. And well bring that to you in our special coverage tonight, joining us this criminal Defense Attorney, are there 1 bestselling author and former federal prosecutors, jeffrey toobin, cnn anchors Kaitlan Collins and abby phillip. Cnn senior legal analyst, elie honig, and cnns kara scannell, who watched the proceedings today from inside the courtroom. Caroline, start with you. What was like donald trump was there at the Defense Table again, this time sitting across from his longtime friend, david pecker, who was getting into the actual heart of this testimony because the day before he was setting the table to explain to the jury what the National Enquirer was and what they did. And today, it was its really bringing them into this alleged conspiracy this august 20 meeting where donald trump, david pecker, Michael Cohen, all hatch this catch and kill scheme and made the decision that they were going to bury some stories, promote negative stories made up, stories about some rivals, all to help Donald Trumps campaign and david pecker really the underscored that today. And then of course getting into some of these these two of the three catch and kill deals, both the one involving the doorman, one involving Karen Mcdougal and all throughout the time, david pecker was very composed think a credible witness. He was im being specific in his testimony, and he was addressing the jury for most of the time. At the time, donald trump was variously intently watching david pecker and then otherwise looking, appearing to either be staring off or looking at this monitor in front of him, which actually gives a feedback as the Video Feedback that plays in the Overflow Courtroom and so hes kinda watching himself, watched the trial, so to speak. Thats come surreal i mean, its actually the david pecker was made the point several times today that they were he was doing this to benefit the campaign. He wasnt he didnt say he was doing it to benefit to protect Donald Trumps family. It was to benefit the campaign thats the theory. Thats the prosecution theory, and thats what theyre really trying to establish that this was not about helping donald trump preserve his marriage. This was a conspiracy to get donald trump elected president. The question is, and i think it was a coherent theory about all the ways that pecker was going to help donald trump wheres the crime . Thats the question is a Magazine Editor helping someone get elected president . Thats what magazines do in this country. The expenditure of money is allegedly the crime, but you can be sure that im on crossexamination. Pecker is going to be talked to. Theyre going to say, you know, youre just supporting the candidate you wanted. Thats what magazines do, right . Kaitlan, how do you think it did . Im not sure thats what all magazines do not its if people would like to have a word, but i think its watching all this play out. Its fascinating to see david pecker sitting there and testify in this way, and theyre laying the groundwork to get to something bigger. Obviously, with all of this and with his relationship with trump. But he met marla. He met trump, visited maralago, met him in the 80s, worked with them in the 90s, worked with him when the apprentice became a show, trump would send him Apprentice Ratings and they would publish them. And the National Enquirer and david pecker was kind of saying it was this mutually beneficial relationship between the two of them, this twoway street. And then you he was helping promote trump. And then when he got closer to the election, he was helping berry negative stories she had never he talked about. It, never done that before. Ive never paid anyone for a story related to donald trump until it was the door man who has shopped chocolate, the shopping around an untrue story about Trump Fathering A child out of wedlock. But still, they were worried about it and mainly he kept making the point. I only wanted to keep it out of the press and so did Michael Cohen until after the election action and so that was the key point that they really got david pecker to make today, which was saying things were different as we got closer to the 2016 election, are there what did you think of pecker . Well, i mean you got to just backup before even takes the stand. The prosecutor opens Opening Statement this is a conspiracy. And whos in the conspiracy while trump, pecker and cone. Now, there is no Conspiracy Charge. They could have easily charged some form of a conspiracy if they could have figured that out. But one of the reasons why i dont think they tried to even charge of conspiracy is you have three people and conspiracy two of them are gonna be witnesses. Once a defendant why usually its one cooperator and two defendants, not the other way around. Additionally, anderson, he got immunity not a cooperation agreement. Immunity, which goes to jeffries point. I think there is really no we havent spoken about a crime yet. There is no crime at this point. Everything hes talking about, theres nothing in the Penal Law Catch And Kill Theory is criminal. So thats obviously in summation, the process, the defense is going to focus on who this guy is and where hes all about. But heres what they have to get out in crossexamination isnt it true, mr. Pecker, that one point, mr. Trump said in addition to the Campaign Millennials need to hear about this. Its only need is for that m ms. Yes, he was concerned about melannie. He was concerned about baron because its gotta be that the expenditure is 100 for him to become president of the United States. Im sorry, thats wrong. Thats just not the law. It does not have to be 100 . I see jeffries agreeing with me. It does not have to be 100 campaign related. Those campaigns should be both. I wanted to predict the campaign, but also i was worried about my wife. Yes. The campaign has to be a substantial factor, does not but three, 100 and nobody would ever be able to prove that my view of david pecker today as he was a rock solid start for the prosecutors. Youre not going to win your case that the first witness, its a mistake to try to do that. I agree that if the case ended right now, wed have no crime made out. So hes sort of setting the table exactly what i think he did. That was really the interesting is he took the jurors inside this cd unseemly world of catching kill and what happens behind the scenes at the National Enquirer, he painted a very vivid picture, even just following along with the updates as we were doing real time, it was riveting and he explained how this world works. He explained who the key players are. He explained what the relationships are that Michael Cohen is sort of Donald Trumps lieutenant and dylan howard was his lieutenant. He explained the chains of communication, so im not gonna win at all with one shot right off the bat. But i think its a good start by the way prosecutors should not be highfiving in the beginning, middle, or end of direct. Its all about cross because then youre going to have a good defense are like arthur aye dollar trying to tear you down and the will score points. I got asked you this question. If heres the problem with this, okay. We dont exactly know what that secondary crime is. Right . So you and i are talking about election law. Were not talking about whether he fully sulfide. I think its opening shock pace that he puts something in his books that warrants wasnt accurate. But what if he put down i bought this suit to be present to run for my prints president ial campaign but he was going to wear it also to a wedding. He cant write that off. Its not a campaign expense. Its gotta be Campaign Expenses are this is my Campaign Headquarters on paying rent for it. And im only running my campaign out of it. He cant say im running my campaign out of it and im doing some real estate. But its not a campaign. But if they were had this meeting theres now infamous meeting with Michael Cohen and pecker and trump in 2015. And the whole purpose of the meeting was, what can i do to help your campaign . Isnt that setting up the framework for what they still work gets them to intent and thats the secondary part of the crime. Trump is charged with falsifying business records, but with the intent to conceal or commit another crime, and prosecutors were talking about this in court today with the jury out of the courtroom. This thats what theyre trying to prove with david pecker that the intent was to violate new York State Campaign finance laws, which is just to promote a candidate. Its more artful than that, but but thats the essence youre spending money to influence a campaign. There are laws that regulate how that money can be spent. Is that is that what youre saying . Thats how much you can give. First of all, weigh less than 130,000 and that you have to report it. And i think its worthwhile to step back and just reflect on what exactly the charges are here. And i think arthurs doing an effective job of showing where some of the questions are going to be raised. But the core charges here, you have to start with falsifying business records. So this goes to what we were just talking about. They paid this money to Stormy Daniels to hush her for the election and the allegations they falsified the payments they may try to make it look like an attorneys legal fees retainer and the argument is theres the falsification and you have to tie that to donald trump, which is not gonna be easy. And then the back half of it is you have to show that the motivation was political, not 100 , but that is substantial portion of the motivation was published. And this is where i think that the nature of David Packers relationship with donald trump changing in time 2015 is going to be critical information for the jury. They were friends for a very long time. They were in this cdd york world, donald trump was as someone put it, a friend of peckers they had that close relationship, but it wasnt until 2015. Thats suddenly david pecker was talking to Michael Cohen every single day, almost trying to give them advice about where the story, the bad stories are there, the nature of the relationship changed when trump started running for president , which suggests that the motivation was the election that was right there. And what we learn today that was also different than what i had remembered being characterized at the time when there was a lot of reporting the Wall Street Journal whatnot when we were covering the white house was it was written that august 2015 meeting that pecker had gotten said, what can i do to help your campaign . But what he testified to today was that trump sought this meeting with him, that Michael Cohen set it up. Then when they went to the meeting, they asked how david pecker could help with the campaign, that it was the reversal they were asking him how he could help not him asking them. Theres a history here which makes the prosecutions case i think even a little bit stronger the relationship between pecker trump was one of hero worship period. I mean, it pecker revered trump i wrote about, i wrote about pecker in 2017 in the new yorker. This was no, right . Well, before which i reread the other day and we yes, it was a trip down memory lane, but one of the odd facts that i always remember from that story is that you mentioned it briefly. He actually published a vanity magazine called trumps style, which when you checked into a trump hotel, it would be there with a gideons bible that you got you got a free copy but it was so over the top in its praise of trump in his style and his wealth and his glamour. And that was how pecker saw trump. But in 2015, he took that hero worship in, turned it to the campaign and it makes sense. And its its really beneficial because pecker talks about, they surveyed the audience of the National Enquirer about a trump run. And it was overwhelmingly positive trump was a fixture in that magazine, but the viewership wanted to hear about trump two in a positive way, perhaps not. So i went in the new yorker, you cite an example. I dont know if you were listening in on the call of a of a call in the among National Enquirer editors about stories. There is a Story Pitch Meeting and thats how the piece opens up their pitching a story about i think Melania Trump not holding down from his hand or something. And david pecker says on the call, well, i didnt see that. And then they tried to pitch the story again, which was a negative story about trump occur again, says, i didnt see that and theyd get this sense. Move on. Right . Well, and i went to editorial meetings of the National Enquirer where they decided what was on the cover every week and pecker was very active in this. It was all about the cover for all about the cover and they had lists of who sold and who didnt Jennifer Anniston sold Jennifer Lopez didnt sell. I dont know why, but thats true. They also had words that sold or didnt sell on the cover. Tragic last days, always sold. Also the light stays live. I live in clinton were elected, but trumps sold. That was the thing that in addition to this this may come out and Cross Examination that in addition to the fact that that pecker wanted to help trump that during the campaign 2015, 2016 trump was good for the inquire. Thats what youre suggesting abbe in the sense that it was mutually beneficial because when they put him on the cover, its sold and david pecker said that today. He said we needed it at the time yeah coming up next, ill look at the Trial Transcript that we just got some of the key and detailed moments from inside the courtroom and more would david pecker said about the catch and kill scheme designed to protect the man he said was known as the most eligible bachelor also, what Karen Mcdougal, one of the women who story he caught and killed, told me about the deal sciutto, what is the point of the lawsuit smile. You found it the feeling of findings, psoriasis cant filter out the real you. 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