Deon willich and e. J. Presidency and is President Trump to blame. And now on to toronto. One nation after trump. Two pairs of terrific debaters and let this house assemble and get these people in their seats and we will have a terrific toronto fordowntown the debate on the crisis of american dempsey. Im your moderator and i organized these debates and our debateors over the next hour and a half. Give us a couple of moments and get this the mumpings debates on the crisis of american democracy. Back to you live momentarily. Operate better. The canadians you cant take it away. Barack obama has rebuilt the trust of the world in our willingness to work through the security council. You must not talk to anybody in the world. Call this a mafia state, it is a disaster. If i were very immense. Indiscernible] i wont let you do this show me the words. You can keep screaming it. We dont want pity but opportunity. Its an appalling slander to me to the muslim religion. I demever said the word muslim. It is that kind of restraint, hat kind of soberminded inintelligence that obama represents. Canadianment canadian. [applause] good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Good evening. Wow to begin with, i want to welcome he canadianwide audience on Canadian Broadcast Corporation and across the continental United States live right now on cspan. A warm hello to the online audience watching this debate from Facebook Live to bloomberg. Com and debate to have you as participants and hello to you, the 3,000 people for yet another munching debate. We salute your interest and desire for informed public discussion for big issues of the day. Of the ty to bring to worlds sharpest minds to this stage to the city of torpto to debate those issues that are on our mind and would not be possible without the generosity of our hosts tonight, peter and melanie munching. [applause] i would be remiss if i did not on behalf of a grateful city also thank you petter and melanie for your gifts to the million donation hat will save lives. [applause] we are mere moments now from getting our two debaters and going to be tackling the resolution tonight be it resolved american democracy is in its worst crisis in a generation and one man donald j. Trump is to blame arguing in favor of the resolution is the editor, the father of the modernday blog and and ladies. D gentlemen, Andrew Sullivan [applause] andrews partner is author and scholar at the Brookings Institution and a mustread columnist in the Washington Post. Ladies and gentlemen e. J. Dionne [applause] one team of great debaters deserves another. Lets welcome back to this stage, the former speaker of the u. S. House of representatives d the author of the recent bestselling book understanding rich. Newt gring [applause] time debater tonight is a celebrated wall street jourm columnist, ladies and gentlemen, straussel. [applause] a few more housekeeping details before we go to opening statements. And those of you watching online and join onto the online debate and we have a online poll where people will be voting on your kk ormance at munchinggates and for each of the segments, and closing statements we are going to put a clock up that will count down the minutes of the presentation. When that clock reaches zero join me in a round of applause and our debate on time. So, lets now find out, this audience of 3,000 people here coming into this debate how did you vote on our resolution, be it resolved, american democracy is in the worst crisis in a generation and donald trump is o plame. 68 agree, 3 agree. This debate is very much in play maybe more than our debateors thought about it here in downtown toronto. How fluid is the debate. Could you potentially switch your vote depending on what you hear in the next hour and a half. A this audience in play, 87 , very openminded group hire tonight. This is going to be fun. Second vote at the end of the evening and which one of these teams wins the debates. Lets begin the opening statements. And apped drew sullivan, your six minutes starts now. Thank you for having me. I come here to tell you something that in your hearts you already know. [laughter] the United States is in a state of emergency. This emergency began on january 20 of this year. It began because we have a president uniquely unfit to hold the office that he does. He represents a threat, the core values of american dempsey and the stability of the country, a threat to the National Security of the United States and to the world. Those are big words, i know. Let me briefly tell you why i passionately and sincerely believe that statement. The first is that this president has waged a war on the truth from the minute he took office. And throughout the campaign beforehand he lied and he lied and he lied and he lies. The Washington Post counted 1,300 falsehoods that he has uttered since he became president of the United States none of which he has retracted from the i had on the chiropractic claim that his you can see by aerial photographs is simply not true. To eli some dangerous that three million voted illegally in the last election, something that attacks the heart, core and integrity of the democracy itself. He is unfit because he was violated and has no respect for the rule of law. This is a president who has told police to abuse suspects as they arrest them and told the military that they should torture suspects if they are npt or not. He has encouraged violence who he is dared to protect and offerings to pay the legal fees to those who commit crimes. General y his attorney ne of the most hard core republicans recused himself from a campaign in which he was involved. He asks, the f. B. I. Director to declare his personal loyalty to trump, not the rule of law but to trump and when he refused, he fired him and he went to l on brag. Is is a man who has no understanding. A man who despises the First Amendment and he the owner of the Washington Post with an antitrust action, this week said he would remove the license of nbs because it dared to report the truth and his secretary of state called him a month ron. On National Security, this is a man who is like a school yard kid, a dictator with Nuclear Weapons. Not in control of himself but who is in control of us. I wish this were not the case. There are many problems in america that predate him and many since on the left in overreacting to him. Excesses andl tral elite that refuse to understand that on the american working class. All of that is true and none of that is perpt. This debate is about the worst possible response and those legitimate feelings. This is about a man who has abused those feelings. And one thing, his own effective self agran diesment. He disgraced the United States of america and should be removed by all constitutional measures by the 25th amendment by those around him who know the threat that he is. [applause] andrew, a very opening statement. Kimberly, you are next. Thank you for me. I would like to introduce a new word here tonight, i have three children before i left. I was telling them about this debate and the resolution and i asked them, how mom, tell me why you think donald trump has been bad for democracy and they have several reasons why. And my sixyearold used her favorite word she said hes bad poopoohead. Nd andrew used firey words and that is why my opponents, they dont like him because he is a pmpomp opmpomp ohead and will argue he has violated all the political norms and has no respect for his office. And will say he has undermined his relationship with the rest of the world and largely they are right, but that has nothing to do with democracy. Democracy is not just what we continue like someone. Democracy is a very formal concept. It is government for the people and by the people and in the United States, its even something more specific in the minds. Its documents, the declaration of independence, life, liberty nd the pursuit of happiness, free from a government that overregulates. Its the constitution and its the saying that we are a government of laws and not of men that we have separation of powers, the Congress Makes laws and the judiciary interprets them. Donald trump was elected because his predecessor violated that Constitution Day after day. And the backlash that grew in the United States put him in office because he ran as the law and order candidate. It was his predecessor who was frustrated when he cannot get people confirmed and declared the session out of senate because the Supreme Court voting 90 because that was egregious and barack obama who came to office with ageppeda programs like Immigration Reform and he acknowledged that he needed congress to change the laws and when they didnt do it. There was barack obama who was secretary of state who didnt have to follow the laws of public oversight the way everyone does and destroyed her barack obama as [crowd booing] was that good . I hope that was good. This was the prior government that seized assets and taking 5 trillion that sicked the i. R. S. And on a witch hunt. And this was a former government that recently we have been talking in the last few days and apped drew mentioned saying the president threatened to after nbc. Sticks and stones can break my bones. The president makes a lot of threats. The measure is whether or not he has done anything. [applause] he is still having some trouble with that legislative agenda. What donald trump has threatened is nothing with barack obama who had his attorney germ see and fox hrough the emails of news. Donald trump has put people in office that ran against these campaigns. They are law and order candidates and are there to make sure we restore democracy. By getting regulations, with a new tax code that doesnt reward hose and only those. This is about fundamental change and restore of the rule of law. And you know what . You dont have to take my word for it. It was funny ap i saw an article that appeared in the Washington Post and the headline was how donald trump is saving our democracy. And why am i flying to canada when he has agreed to me. Even on the basis of what e. J. And apped drew that our president is could rose i have, they think there could be benefits and pay more attention than in the end we could end up with a Stronger Society than we have now. But again, this is a president who was brought to office by americans who cant to see a return to law and order. And if anyone suggests that isnt happening. Its only interested in all the bright and shining things that donald trump says and what the administration is doing behind the scenes. Thank you. [applause] i ask you to send a signal to those americans that the threat that donald trump poses to our democracy. Want to say [applause] its a great honor to be a guest on the longest undefended border of the world. May it stay that way. May there be no walls between the United States and canada. We have stood with each other, but perhaps we have learned from each other. Everyone wants a neighbor who embodies decency and we americans are lucky to have you. And as you can tell from my last name, my family headed south from quebec [speaking french] and i want to salute the courage of our opponents to show up tonight [laughter] after the week that donald trump has had and has a commitment to the idea that the show must go on. This is a week in which donald trump challenged the very idea of a free press. It bothered him that people can like whatever they want, which sound like the First Amendment to me. He threatened a network he didnt like with removing their license, which had two problems with it, which is Network License in the first place dr and the other is threat of using president ial power with people you disagree with is not the mark of a democrat but an ought cat. [applause] and he told our fellow sit serns in puerto rico that he might just walk away and allow them to suffer and yes, i salute the briferery of our citizens. But throughout this debate, they ll cling to one bees of this resolution like a life raft and talk about all the problems that the United States has had for 5, 10, 20 years and andrew will not dispute that we didnt have problems. They will try to plame everything thats wrong on liberals or barack obama or on hainthaint. They will do everything in their power to avoid the central issue because deep down i think they know so much that donald trump does and says is indefensible and blame Everything Else for a crisis that donald trump has created. We did not talk about george w. Bush or barack obama. Yes, we are talking about the collapse of the norms of democracy. We did not talk about that before donald trump. We are talking about and andrew outlined it. We did not talk about this before donald trump and yes, we are talking about senator corker needporter, a president in of a an adult day care center. We never had a president who from his very first day in office he had no business to be president. Andrew talked about our threats to our liberty and i want to talk about norms. Norms are the things that you need people to live by because you cannot write rules for everything. We could start with the most basic norm. The great reporter for the toronto star just reported that President Trump got a new personal record for the most analysis claims in a week. Thats an amazing record by daniel days account. He clocked in at 40. D 1,300 lies or misleading statements amendment amounted to five statements a day. That is quite a record. Please do not let our records. I know they hold democracy to a that higher standard and i hope we can per wade them tonight to stand up for our dem kick life. Trump arouse is anger and fear, fear about whether our institutions can survive and prays is strong men abroad and ees them as a broad model. The United States hasnt faced a reater theft for many decades. Onald trump is to blame [applause] i want to pose a problem for all of you and a real problem for free society. Ow would you know. The fourstar general in the son wentrps who lost a to the press corps and said so much of what you report is false. But it is an enormous problem. John fourstar germ, kelly, serving as secretary of defense, said yesterday, the media reports about trump wanting to have a 10fold increase in Nuclear Weapons are falls. They become trumized and no longer know the truth. But you may decide that a great deal of what you believe is total holewash, and news immediate yeah and in its own way of keeping score it doesnt have a clue what donald trump is doing and captain think objecttively. His speech in wausau is comparable to reagan and i say with that knowledge because the speech writer said, anything reagan ever said, but if you are on the left, tv idea you would defend western civilization is prove that there is something wrong. Read reagans speech which has a core argument, but its not trivial. Says, the base of freedom starts with sovereignty. If the sovereign countries who reesm agreements is useful. We are moving towards a globalization with a bureaucratic legal is particular system which our nations are subordinate, parts of this larger thing and stunningly dangerous. I dont know about you, but i headed along with George Mitchell studied the united nationses. The idea that the General Assembly should replace the canadian parallelment or the American Congress as an authority. Look who belongs to it. And if you are not a tyrant or a dictator, you are not allowed on. Israel should be condemned. Srael is condemned 100 times a year. Venezuela want to and wouldnt want to consider what the chinese are doing. In which they are now tracking every cell tone in china. That would be inappropriate. So i think what trump is saying is very profound. U can agree or degree, he is following the law and i know my riends who claim about democracy. The great numbers of executive orders were signed by barack ama and not signed by donald trump. The america cap people rebelled. This is not a local thing. Heaping in the city of austria and roman cat loan yeah. Captain blame all of those things. Merkel had the worst election. People are unhappy in the planet and the source is washington and wanted someone to kick under the table. Heres where we are. Es draining the swamp. The alligators and they are defending him. [applause] lets here from the two hungry alligators and go into proside and the first and apped drew for your rebuttal. Im very glad to. Im going to take specific points that were made to address them. The first is that everything i cited is some invention of the liberal media. Everything i cited is in the public records on television, his quotes are bad, track to look at and examine. There is nothing here that is spin and everything i cited here was facts. One thing that ought cats wag do is mix facts. And they present tend the people and ought cats do this, that a free press is the real danger to society. And a free press is essential and we have a conservative press and conservative media and liberal press and liberal media. The facts decide on the liberal side. And i will concede that barack obama did commit and execute executive orders that were out of line. He did so because he was subjected by the insane publican partys to obstruct everything this man did [applause] when he was inhernting the worse economy. And now, they are proposing to borrow more money to pay the tax cuts not for the middle class but the wealthy and they claim it will did he keys the deficit. I will note that yes, when you look on paper, people can write peeches. Idea. Ur i also listened to the inaugural fear. Of hatred and popular er he lost the vote. [applause] he is rightly president because our Constitutional Republic has ruled that requires him to be president and i accept his legitimacy but thos