Surrender of japan, in their reply, there is no qualification. President harry truman on august, 1940 five, announcing japans Unconditional Surrender following the u. S. Department of to atomic weapons, ending world war ii. Culminates with this event 75 years ago. In the midst of what is going on in the country, why is it significant to pause and never this event so long ago . Guest i do not know if it is significant, but it is interesting and that was enough for me. [laughter] significantsay was for me personally, because i, as the host of the sunday talk show, i live and breathe washingtons world today. And one of the joys about researching and writing and now talking about this book, has nothing to do with donald trump. I do not mean that either as praise or denigration. In this world that is highly polarized. A zerosum game, all of that. And it was kind of refreshing to go back to 1945, even though we were in the midst of world war ii. Because, susan, we were all on the same side. Everybody was pulling together. The country came together in common cause of to be the enemy. First the nazis in europe. And the japanese in the pacific. One of the extraordinary examples of that is the Manhattan Project, it went on for two years, the program to build the atomic bomb. It started in 1942. And finally, all of these things happens in 1945. 125 thousand people working across the country, in oak ridge tennessee and the los alamos and new mexico and in whenever utah and hanford washington and not a single word of it ever leaked. I assume we will get into at some point that harry truman as Vice President did not even know about the Manhattan Project. I cannot help but think, today, if you had a secret project, to bake apple pie, with a 24 hours, somebody would go on twitter or instagram and say, this is outrageous and immoral and im going to blow the whistle on it. It was refreshing to go back to 19 for a five. The idea tell readers started in Nancy Pelosis office. Tell me the story . Guest i have the concept for a while, to write a history thriller. To take a specific key moment in history, and try to take the reader along for a ride. You know, so much of history is written, obviously it is all after the fact. But it is written as if the reader knows it is after the fact. And why did it happen . And how did it happen . But not take me along on a ride as it is happening. The fact is, there are so many momentous events during these 116 days from when perry truman becomes president , until that promise dropped. When harry truman becomes president until the bomb is dropped. So we do not know when truman is trying to decide other to drop the bomb or invade japan what hes going to do. Alamosot know at los that people are going to try to make what they call the gadget, but they call the atom bomb, whether it will work as they tested. We do not know at the flight crew of the in the legate off to drop the bomb on hiroshima whether the aftershocks of the explosion are going to knock the plane out of the sky. Did not know not i know that is what i was going to write about write about but i thought if you can take people for a ride and count down the key moments from the beginning of the story to the climax, it could be a page turner. But i did not know what the specific a that was going to be. 2019, on the day that President Trump was going to deliver his state of the union address, nancy pelosi invited four or five of the Network Anchors over for a prebottle, and you a pre buttal, a uniquely washington event. Democratic it with president s and republican speakers and in this case a republican speaker and democratic speakers, with a brief you on everything wrong with the speech before the they actually deliver the speech. And i had covered the house for a year and a half and i not been in this room. She said this with the board of education. I was excited because i remembered from my history, that was the hideaway sam rayburn, when he was speaker in the 1940s and 1950s and 1960s, has special hideaway. Was called the board of education, where he would have people come after hours, his cronies, to gossip about politics, and plot strategy sometimes, to deliver to recalcitrant numbers of congress what their marching orders were, and also to strike one for liberty, which meant to have a bourbon and branch water. She said was in this room, and the other end of the desk from where she was sitting, that on april 12, 1945, that truman who was then Vice President , had come in. He was a regular at the board of education. And rayburn said, the white house is looking for you. So truman poured himself a drink. 1414. E dialed national he did not know what it was but knew the white house was looking for him and was put on the phone with steve early, president roosevelts longtime secretary, who said get to the white house as quickly and quietly as you can. And nancy pelosi said truman hung up the phone and said, jesus christ and general jackson. And then scurried out of the board of education. I suddenly thought that is it. That is my key moment. I did not then know it was 116 days from when truman gets the call that will eventually laid hour, that out in an roosevelt has died in his now president , to 116 days later, when they drop the bomb on hiroshima. Host on the secrecy, lets start with harry truman. What does it say about fdrs leadership he kept a secret of such magnitude from Vice President truman . Guest i would say roosevelt had gotten remember he had just been elected to his fourth term, so he is 13 years into the presidency. He basically ignored his Vice President s. He did not Pay Attention to them. We tell the story in the book his current Vice President , and 19, was Henry Wallace, who is very far to the left, and there was great concern in the party among party regulars, in 1944, that roosevelt might not survive a fourth term and they did not want Henry Wallace to be president. A lot of people around him were further and they wanted to replace him. Roosevelt does not seem to have been concerned because i think he thought he was going to live forever, at least through the end of the fourth term. So they were going to have the Democratic Party convention in chicago. The Democratic Party chair was Robert Hannigan and he and the party brokers decided we have to get wallace out of there and put 70 else in to the job put somebody else into the job. Roosevelt seems to have been largely uninvolved at this. They looked around at various names of people. Wallace wanted to stay in the job. Jimmy burns had been a former senator and Supreme Court justice and was now heading the office of war mobilization for roosevelt, he was a possibility. And truman was going to go to chicago and nominate jimmy burns, berkeley was another possibility. The Democratic Party leaders made the calculation not that truman was so wellqualified for the job, but that he would work hurt the ticket the least. Only 2 of gallup polls supported truman, but they thought he would not do any damage. So that was that. He came to chicago and did not want to be the Vice President. They finally hooked up a call in a Chicago Hotel room, so truman, they called him in, and he could overhear the Democratic Party chair, hannigan, talking to roosevelt, who was in san diego at the time. It was all set up and roosevelt said, have you got that missouri senator to sign on . And hannigan said no, he is that contrary us missouri mule have ever met. And roosevelt set if he wants to break up the Democratic Party and sync my presidency and the middle of world war ii, anyway, they put roosevelt on the phone and he protested and resisted a little bit, and finally said if the commanderinchief wants me to do it i will do it. So he was on the ticket. They get elected. They are inaugurated in january 20th, 1945. And roosevelt completely forgets about him. Truman was Vice President for 82 days. He had met with roosevelt twice in private in those 82 days. As you point out, he has sworn on aprilsident 6 30 12 tells the cabinet to stay on. They all leave and the secretary of war, henry simpson, says, mr. President , i need to talk to you. He takes him into a private room and says i need to tell you about an immense project to develop a weapon of indescribable power. That was literally, he had been Vice President for three months and that was literally the first inkling truman had about the existence of the Manhattan Project, to develop the atom bomb. Roosevelt had never shared it with him. Host so do we know of any senior members of congress, if they had been briefed on the project . Guest no. No members of congress have been briefed on the project. Trumaninteresting thing, was as keyed into all of that is possible. He was the head of the crew Truman Committee the Truman Committee, which was specifically involved and authorized to look into defense spending. And at one point, he had been poking around about an installation in washington state, which in fact was part of the Manhattan Project. And when stimson, the fact secretary of war got word of he calls943 or 1944, truman attest, listen, senator, i know all about that project. I want you to know it is ok. Truman completely backed off. And said, if you think, if that is what you say, mr. Secretary, i take your word for it. That was one of the things truman was astonished by. Because congress had appropriated 2 billion in the previous two years, but it had been all secret. And truman cannot understand how that kind of money could have been turned over from congress to the administration and they did not know what they were spending it on. Host where did the Manhattan Project get its name . Scientists, a lot of were in manhattan at the time. That inc history is, 1939, let me back up. You have a number of jewish german refugees who leave germany as hilla rises to power. They understood that as jews they were not long for this world. They go to england where they go to the United States. That includes Albert Einstein. Theres an increasing fear as we get to the late 1930s that germany, which still has a lot of brilliant scientists, may develop a nuclear weapon, and at a bomb. In the last thing any of the scientists want is to have hitlers have access to the only at a bomb in the world. 1939, Albert Einstein writes a letter to fdr, and basically says, we think this technology is out there. And the United States, the free world needs to develop it before hitler and the nazis do. 1942,elt sits on until when church a, and there were some of the signs when church when Winston Churchill, and some of the scientists in great 1942, and the scientists in manhattan. And they started dusty assigned a Major General named lesly gross to put this together. And he realizes you cannot have scientists all of the country, you have to put them together and that is the beginning of the Manhattan Project. We see three major installations, oak ridge and tennessee, which ends up becoming an enrichment, uranium enrichment site. And hanford, washington. And the real brainpower, a thousand scientists and technicians and engineers, at area ofos in a deserted new mexico, where Robert Oppenheimer, the scientific director of the project had spent time growing up as a kid. 8000. He convinced grove, lets put the Real Laboratory there. Host what did raab and Robert Oppenheimer, 40 years old, bring to the table . Guest absolute brilliance. He was a brilliant theoretical physicist. Astonishingly intelligent brainpower. He knew six lang which is. He knew six languages. He learned sanskrit so he could read a hindu devotional poem, the bhagavadgita, which later comes into the story. An interesting thing, he was seen as somewhat of a prima donna, as a lot of these scientists were. But gross decides he is the project. It was this fascinating combination of groves, this six foot 250 pound bulldozer of a 1942, and a1941 and year and a half built the pentagon. Which is the Biggest Office building in the world. And just a massive project. And built right on time. The government decides, roosevelt decides, he is the right guy to do this massive project. He then recruits oppenheimer to do it. So you have the military push and drive and discipline of groves, and this year scientific brilliance of oppenheimer, the scientific director of the program. I think oppenheimer really is the key figure here. Because on the one hand you have militarymanding discipline and security and deadlines, and a lot of the scientists were bucking out at this and somehow, oppenheimer kind of had to keep the scientists on board while on the other hand trying to meet the deadlines that groves was setting. And groves was not very patient. 8000 scientists in los alamos a bunch of prima donnas, and said he was conducting a giant opera. So it was a kind of clash of temperaments and wills, but somehow it worked. Host i was struck by the quote you had of oppenheimers reaction on the news of fdrs death. The quote was, roosevelt was a great architect, perhaps truman will be a very good carpenter. Guest treatment new absolutely nothing about the Manhattan Project and scientists knew nothing about truman. They had been working, not handing glove because obviously there was separation, and roosevelt have other things on his plate. But they knew they were working very much at the direction of the president , and that he had taken a keen personal interest in starting and funding and keeping the Manhattan Project going. Now suddenly he has gone. And this stranger is there. One thing you cannot overstate, is when roosevelt, im sorry, when truman takes over in april, 1945, the bomb does not work it. There are four months away from the first test. And there was a tremendous debate going on, throughout the government at that time, about whether it would even work. Yes they had split and out of in a laboratory. But whether you could take this atomic Chain Reaction and harness it and create a super weapon, that was very much in doubt. Admiral William Lakey was one of the top people in the nate in the navy and a chief of staff roosevelt and truman, throughout the entire 116 days and countdown 1945, leahy keeps saying this is the biggest bit of bunk i have ever heard. This thing will never work. So there was a lot of doubt as to whether it would at work. Therefore, truman had a lot of doubts about it. Host i know you spent a lot of time in the truman president ial library. What did you learn about how harry truman went about making the decision to deploy . Guest well this was one of the most interesting parts to me of the whole story, susan. I have interviewed seven president s, and spent six years covering Ronald Reagans white house in the 1980s. I like to think im a student of president ial decisionmaking. Sometimes you see it being done very well and carefully, and sometimes not so much. There were three things that impressed me about truman. First, how meticulous he was. He goes over this again and again and again. Choice i think a lot of people did not understand, and i did not fully understand this going into this, the choice was not dropped the bomb on hiroshima or whatever city it was going to be or do nothing. It was dropped the bomb, or invade japan. So there was a lot of discussion. On june 18, truman has all of the war cabinet, and this includes secretary of war stimson, some top admirals, the general of the army, george marshall. He has them all come to the oval office and have a discussion about, what are we going to do to enter the war in the pacific . By june, the nazis had surrendered on may 8. So that is the war that is left. How are we going to end that war . The japanese, far from giving up, are fighting more fiercely than ever. It is only a fairly short discussion. I think about an hour. Minutes, the first 50 it is simply a discussion of invading japan. Theone who is leading discussion is under marshall. He says, he compares the casualty rates of what had happened in the invasion of normandy and some of the islands in the pacific. And he comes up and i was astonished at this and i have read the minutes of the meeting, with a specific number of how many troops he is going to need, 766,700. That was the number he said, and the production from all of the people, that this is going to take at least a year and maybe a year and a half. Remember they are meeting in june of 1945, and they were are saying this work will go on until the end of 1946. They say we believe they are going to be a million japanese casualties, and up to a half million american casualties. Theres a long description about, first they are going to honshu,hu, and then and on and on. At the end of the discussion, they have been talking about the invasion in great detail. At the end of the discussion, and this is the second thing that impressed me about truman. He wanted to hear from everybody. He wanted to hear from people whether they agreed with the direction he was going or not. He was not scared at all of dissent. One person has been silent in this whole meeting, a fellow named john mccloy, an assistant secretary of war, maybe the most junior person in the room. But he was a very distinguished wire from the ark, from the dutch a very distinguished lawyer from new york. And he was stimsons