This. That was independent candidate ross perot during the second of three residential debates in 1992 talking about the u. S. Debt. The alexion biz the taxes businessmen won 19 of the vote. He ran a second independent president ial campaign in 1986. Tonight, he is our focus on the contenders. Thanks for being with us. We are doing this series as a way to look at American History through the lens of president ial candidates who failed in their quest for the white house but had an impact on American History. Ross perot is our final 14 people we are profiling. Tonight, joining us for our discussion is historian and biographer Doug Brinkley. As a person who has done a number of powder fees on 20thcentury political figures, what interest you about ross perot . He has a pioneer spirit in him. He harkens back to the 19th century. He is not politics as usual. He cares about the country. Patriotism has become a cheap word. Ross perot is a super patriot. He is less interested in money and politics than he is in doing what is right for our country. This comes from his Naval Academy background, Constant Service to his country, looking for pows in vietnam. The clip you just ran tells you the National Debt. I think we were like 3 trillion in debt. Today, we are at 15 trillion. When he was talking about the sucking sound of jobs leaving america due to nafta, it is probably on the left, the issue that most disturbs the middleclass americans is that jobs have gone overseas, many of our towns in the midwest, south are languishing right now. The issues he talked about are being echoed by the Tea Party People on the right and the occupy wall street people on the left. Exactly. He is a centrist. You cannot look at ross perot into the paradigm of typical politics. We often want to label people right, left. He is something out of an older american fiber of the wagon trains out west or world war ii or korean war heroes, soldiers, explorers, inventors. That is what ross perot is really about. His entering in 1992 is not about politics as much as it was public service. You have to say this about ross perot, he put his considerable amount of money where his mouth was. Every season, we have people flirting with thirdparty runs. Ross perot did it. It is quite extraordinary to get that 19 of a vote. It is kind of unprecedented. It came from middleclass people all over america. It is interesting to think back on this united we stand movement that ross perot kind of unprecedented. It came from middle class people all over america. Interesting to reflect on this whole united we stand ross perot ran on in 1992 and with the reformed party in 1996. There going to be a third party person. That might ebody enter the mix in 2012. If you look at his platform in 1992, he seems to have been right on key issues including border problems, drugs, violence texas mexico border. Violence, the need for Public School education. He has very controversial things like putting a gasoline tax on but all of these issues, if we ross perot, his legacy invigorates the current debate. Was perhaps peoples introduction to ross perot but he had been on the National Stage for a while. In the late 1980s, he began to speak out about these issues he was concerned about. We looked in our Video Library and our first coverage of ross perot was back in 1987. Here he is speaking before the American Bankers Association that year. Lets look at where we are. Lets take off the rose colored glasses. I think weve had enough dr. Feelfield. I think were tough enough to take bad news and i think its facts. Look at the we have a trillion dollar debt by 1988. Significantly funded by foreign nations at this point. Greatest nation in the history of man doesnt even have national o pass a budget. We continue to pass continuing resolutions that put us ever deeper into debt and we have given up trying to live within our means as a country. There is no correlation between taxes paid in and money spent. Were losing an International Business competition. Some of our banks have problems. Savings and loans have serious problems. Wall street is bouncing all over the place. Our personal spending habits of our people are as bleak as our federal spending habits. People spend everything they make. All they can borrow and they have no savings. 1987, 24 years ago, and except for upping the numbers and the fact that americans are now saving because of the 2008 crisis almost every one of these issues could be talked about with the same words today. Yeah, you know, thats absolutely correct. Remember why ross perot could give that speech. He was a genius really at operations. He understood the corporate world. In 1962 he created Electronic Data Systems and ended up it a few years before that speech in 1984 to general became the rguably richest person in texas. E was on the cover of fortune magazine. So he knows how to take a startup business. The importance of data collection, of companies, he one point invested in apple with steve jobs at one point. He worked, of course, for ibm when he was a young man, so he really wanted the United States in his adult life to be the great country it was of his childhood. The country that fdr brought us through in the Great Depression ii, that cando spirit, it fills him up and the fact that were losing in the 1980s to japan a lot. Of course, today, our problems are competing with china and the fact that so many people in congress seem to be bought and for. The lobbying in washington in getting rid of lobbyists and corrupt politicians was at the core of the perot message. This Contender Series is a callin program and you make it very interesting and well in a our phone put numbers on the screen so you can be involved in the conversation about ross perot, the issues he was involved in then and his legacy in our politics today. In 1993, this book was published. Perot and his people, dispute disrupting the balance of power. Carolyn barta, a long time texas journalist was the author of our book and shes joining us for the rest of our program from her texas. You knew ross perot as a texas journalist long before Many Americans knew about him. Can you tell us about his upbringing and what shaped the we knew on the National Stage. Well, perot was from texarkana. He had a very average texas childhood. He lived in a strong stable middle class family. As a boy, he broke horses. He traded horses. He was an eagle scout even in i think that he kept all the traits of the eagle scout. Objectives for himself, goals, and then try to pursue those goals. He was very much in the texas tradition of the day, and as he grew, he went to the naval started his own businesses. Represented, as doug said, cando spirit of texas. His vision was big. The state was big. Opportunityoundless here. The sky was the limit, sort of thing. He really sort of played into what was sort of the texas mythology, with texas politicians, who were larger life. Very successful businessman who made a fortune here. They were risktakers. They were not afraid to fail, and that was the sort of spirit that he had, that i think got him into this thing. Its worth noting that at the academy ross perot was president of his class his last on, he showedearly leadership traits and the ability to galvanize people under his leadership that we would see later in life. Just a quick overview of his business career, lets take a look, after the Naval Academy, navy after four years and went into business as an ibm salesman where he quickly became the top salesman. In 1962 he founded his own company, which was Electronic Data Systems. In 1984 he sold eds to general for 2. 4 billion and stayed on the board for a number of years afterwards. In 1988 he founded Perot Systems and in 2009 sold that company to Dell Computers for 3. 9 billion. Source of his great wealth. He also he and his family, are known as fill philanthropists. Can you talk about that side of his family. An fortune to ve all sorts of charities here in dallas. Nd mr. Perot himself has made many anonymous contributions in small ways. Hes helped individuals without people even knowing about it. But there is a hospital here named for margo perot, his wife. Hes give and let of money to the boy scouts. Endless. Their philanthropy. Quickly, you mentioned earlier his involvement with the vietnam p. O. W. s. Can you tell us more about what you know of his interest in that issue and also how it created a divide between him and a later president. He e just mentioned graduated from the u. S. Naval academy in annapolis as the president. I mean, thats a big deal, and he was the sort of person in the navy who believed youre only as good as the guy left behind. Great leader. A during those years when he was in the navy, he sometimes would soldiers that get were on leave or got drunk in a foreign town and get them back on the ship and it became sort of a hallmark of his life. Never leave anybody behind. He was very upset during the vietnam war. Rightfully so. That the United States, we issue push the p. O. W. Mia enough, and ross perot stepped very, at fray and did very dramatically, went to back hannel negotiations with vietnam to say we want every one of our guys back, and hes become really a hero of the u. S. For his veterans constant concern about our soldiers and our troops. Recently, i gave a talkdown for veterans day in dallas and it was a group called daughters of world war ii. These are the daughters of the world war ii veterans and there were hundreds of world war ii vets there and i got to talk to ross perot over dinner one night. One of the most Amazing Stories was that recently when our seals team killed osama bin laden, they shipped him, they thought so much of him, or special forces, they shipped him, and he subsequently went to pierce, florida, to the seal museum, which people should ininitely go visit if youre florida over the holiday because i think our naval seals should be times people of the year but perot had the stick there with all the seals in attendance of bin laden. Tribute to how conscientious he is about getting jobs for former service in his companies, helping veterans whenever he can, and particularly with the special which he thinks represent the best of the best of the american spirit. Visited his boyhood home in texarkana. Were going to show that you and at that. Looking actually, i would like Carolyn Barta to talk about his involvement at the behest of the texas governors about issues including the war on drugs and education reform in his home state. Appointed to a couple of task forces. By former governor bill one nts, and then another by former governor mark so republican, white succeeded him as a democrat. They both tapped perot and asked him to serve. One was on education reform, and i think it just points out how mr. Perot was always one to speak his mind. To say what afraid he thought, and he thought that, in the Public Schools, there should be special classes for talented kids and for the brightest kids, they should go to better classes. And some of the parents, texas parents thought, well, thats elitism, and maybe we dont want that in our Public Schools so just very sarcastically said, okay, lets put all the fat girls on the drill team, lets have everybody be the quarterback. And so, it was just sort of an example of how he always spoke mind. But he was never reluctant to if he was asked to do a job like that, for a couple of governors, it showed that the democrats and republicans both liked him, and for years, his mentioned as a potential candidate for something in texas because he was a leader. And he was also sort of in the time texas old politicians. You know, people like speaker sam going back even to sam houston, doug, in the republic of texas, that kind of a speaker sam eader, governor john conley, i dont have clements, who certainly was one to speak his mind, governor ann richards, who was in a class by herself as well. He was so much like some of these older texans who would just tell it like it is, and didnt mind doing the hard work, if he thought it would help the state or help the country, he didnt mind doing the hard work to do it. Let me jump in at that point. One more bit of the perot biography building. We want to put this on the creen before we get to his campaign in 1992. Workers a number of eds were held hostage. Mr. Perot was personally involved in the rescue of those, something that was later captured in a book by ken follett, on wings of eagles, it became a National Best seller and later a movie on television. Can you talk about how this, and youve watched a lot of politicians, building the personal biography through the telling of stories like this and how he did it effectively. This is an amazing story. Was 79 jimmy carter president. You had the beginnings of an iranian revolution, and two of his workers for his company for Electronic Data Systems had been held captive. And he wanted them sprung free. He went in and hired a former special forces people to go in find a way to get them loose, and he ended up they ended up using an anti an Ayatollah Khamenei rally, not just for his two employees who were released, but about 10,000 Political Prisoners got release had a rendezvous and got a very dangerous trip where, dagger kind ofnd story, but they were eventually able to smuggle out through turkey. So this was a highly successful extraction, you know, maneuver of getting in there and getting and it gets back to what i said earlier, p. O. W. s and mias, ross perot believes in loyalty first and foremost. If you work for him and youre loyal in his company, hell do anything for you. If you listen to people who know number one ts the trait. Personal loyalty to people that he believes in. Weve got a great photograph from that period, of mr. Perot crenna, actor of richard who played ross perot, that was on national lly network television. The beginning of the month of set the stage for us about george h. W. Bush candidacy, his bid for reelection and how the public was feeling about him. Remember George Herbert walker bush, number 41, had record in pressive berlin affairs. He saw the berlin wall coming down, reaction of noriega in panama, and in 1991, the gulf war, which most people thought was a Great Success of ousting Saddam Hussein from kuwait but the economy was stagnant and pat buchanan was going after president bush, having a silver spoon in his mouth, was elite, and there was a populist revolt within the Republican Party. Spring you had another insurgent jerry brown coming in. Of course, bill clinton gets the nomination, so youve got the new Democrat Bill clinton and you have George Herbert walker bush, and suddenly ross perot goes on larry king on cnn and look, im going to run as an independent if i can be on states. Ot in all 50 im if im drafted. Im not going out to run the typical campaign, but the people want my ideas and once we talked outset, at the particularly balancing the budget and the stopping of outsourcing of jobs but also he was opposed to the war in iraq. The gulf war, because he thought that it was going to be a mistake, and instead, special forces should have gone in and killed Saddam Hussein. But he launched this amazing third party run and started soaring in the polls and became the darling of the summer of 1992, and then well pick up the rest of the story in a little bit. Lets show that larry king live february 20th, 1992, interview, when ross perot his willingness to run. Lets go down to grassroots people are e the hurting and everybody is saying why are we in this mess . Allfirst thing i would like of america to do is look in the mirror. Were the owners of this country. The owners. Like we act like white rabbits coming washington. Is there any scenario on which would you run for the president . Can you give me a scenario, okay, im in. Number one, i dont want to. I know, but is there a scenario . If youre that serious, you, the people, are that serious, you register me in 50 states, and if youre not willing to organize and do that, then this is all just talk. Wait. Im playing to the ordinary folks, if youre dead serious, then i want to see some sweat. I want to see some sweat. Why do i want to see some sweat . I said it earlier, i you want in the ring. Carolyn, let me ask you about ow much of a surprise was it when that announcement was made in february 1992 . Surprised most people, but the truth of the matter was, he had been out making speeches for, you know, years, but, and particularly leading up to the larry king live interview, he had, in fact, just a couple of before that, he was in tennessee to speak to a business group, and he was interviewed by a reporter there, and he told him virtually the same thing. That if he saw some skin in the get in theople would ring and get him on the ballot, that he would think about doing it. Well, nothing much came of that it was published. Nothing much came of it, and perot was talking to a man in tennessee and another one in florida, who were sort of activists and trying to draft him to run and jon jay hooker in pennsylvania, a flamboyant businessman, kept calling him, talking to him, and trying to get him to run, and it got to the point where they started talking about well, where should i announce . Considered conventional sources, New York Times, l. A. Times, wall street journal, liked larry king live. In fact, throughout the campaign, he liked going on talk shows where he could talk, you know, and get his message out. So, anyway, as i was told the John Sigenthaler called larry king live, and im not whether he set it up o