Transcripts For CSPAN House Oversight Committee Hearing On 2020 Census 20240712

And whether to extend the statutory deadline. S hearing. Pursuant to house rules, some members will appear in person, and others will appear remotely via webx. Since some members are appearing in person, let me first remind everyone that pursuant to the latest guidance from the house attending physician, all individuals attending this hearing in person must wear a face unless they are talking. Members who are not wearing a face mask will not be recognized. Let me also make a few reminders for those in person. You will only see members and witnesses appearing remotely on the monitor in front of you. When they are speaking in what is known in webx as an active speaker view. A temer is visible in front of you. For timer is visible in front of you. Let me remind everyone of a few points. For members appearing remotely, i know you are familiar and here are the points. First, you will be able to see each person speaking during the hearing, whether in person or remote, as long as you have your webex set to active speaker view. If you have any questions, please Contact Committee staff immediately. Second, we have a timer that should be visible on your screen when you are in the active speaker, with thumbnail view. Members who wish to pin the timer to their screen should contact staff for assistance. Third, the house rules require that we see you, so please have your cameras turned on at all times. Fourth, members appearing remotely, not recognized, should be muted to minimize background noise and feedback. I will recognize members verbally, but they maintain to receive recognition verbally. In regular order, members will be recognized in seniority. Betly, if you want to recognized outside of regular order, you may identify that in several ways. You may use the chat function to send a request. You may send an emailed to the majority staff, or you may unmute your mic to seek recognition. Obviously, we do not want people talking over each other, so my preference is members use the chat function or email to facilitate formal verbal recognition. Committee staff will ensure i am made aware of the request and i will recognize you. We will begin in just a moment when they tell me they are ready to begin the livestream. Do i need somebody to tell me . Pardon me . Are we ready . The committee will come to order. Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare recess of the committee at any time. I now recognize myself for an opening statement. Good morning and thank all of you for joining me today, especially our witnesses. This past april, the Trump Administration asked congress to pass urgent legislation to extend several key statutory deadlines for the 2020 census for about four months. This request was based on unprecedented delays caused by the Coronavirus Crisis. The president personally advocated for these extensions. Thinkd, and i quote, i enough. Isnt nearly quickly, responded bypassing these extensions on may 15, because of the heroes act. I also introduced standalone legislation, the fair and active census act. In the Senate Introduced a companion bill. However, on july 28, the Trump Administration seemed to reverse course. The Commerce Department told the Census Bureau it needed to deliver data to the president by the end of the year. And the senate has failed to act to pass the time delay. As a result, Census Bureau workers were forced to rewrite carefully considered plans over the course of a weekend. They had to cut Field Operations by a month and they had to slash the Data Processing operations from five months to three. Ant week, i released internal document. This document, showing that Census Bureau officials warned the Commerce Department about how these cuts would significantly damage the 2020 census. Quote, andned that, im quoting from this report, eliminated activities will reduce accuracy. They highlighted that the compressed schedule creates r isk for serious errors not being discovered in the data. Errors,y warned, these may not be fixed because of the lack of time. There is strong partisan support for extending these deadlines bipartisan support for extending these deadlines, so why has the Trump Administration seemingly gone back on this request . Why did they ask . They asked for the extension. And then why did they reverse themselves and drop it . And why cant we give the Census Bureau professionals the time that they need for an accurate and complete count of everyone . Have the full story. But the white house chief of staff stated the reason for this change, and i quote, his quote is, the democrats just want to control the apportionment, and we are not going to let them do that. Forgettement seems to that it was the Trump Administration that asked for this change in the first place, that asked for this extension, not democrats. There also seems to suggest donald trump will not be president next year, so the administration wants to control apportionment this year while he is still in office. But there is a much bigger problem with this statement. An undercount will directly harm states, and therefore people, across this country, including states with large populations who vote republican. An undercount will reduce the amount of funding these estates are entitled to receipt these statesare in theses are entitled to receive. Federal trillion dollars payments to states based on census numbers, and if the numbers are not correct, then the payments to the communities are not correct or fair. This is not a theoretical risk. Today, i am releasing several Staff Reports showing the negative impact on states with particularly hard to count populations. Alabama, arizona, florida, montana,kentucky, North Carolina, south carolina, texas, and utah. These estates, and others these states, and others, could be directly harmed by the president s rushing and inaccurate count by december. Thats why a number of republican senators have come out in support of extending the deadlines. Thate quote from a letter senator steve gaines from montana sent to Mitch Mcconnell and chuck schumer, urging them to pass legislation to extend the deadlines. En wrote, and i quote, giv the rural nature of montana and the additional challenges brought about by the covid19 pandemic, reverting the deadline back to september 30, 2020, will leave tens of thousands of montanans unaccounted and underrepresented at the federal level. Nearly half of the households in the state have yet to be counted. It is critical that a full and accurate census is completed and every montana is counted. This should not be a partisan issue. Senatora republican from montana. He supports the extensions because people from his state will lose federal funding to which they are entitled. Saturday,y, this past a federal judge issued an order temporarily halting to end the senses early. This is good news census early. This is good news, but we should not wait for the courts. Last month, four former census directors, one of them here with us today, warned that we cannot have an accurate census using the current schedule. The Coronavirus Crisis has made that impossible. If you support full funding for your state, if you support providing your constituents with health care, wellfunded schools, hospitals, even road and bridge repair, then you should support these extensions. They will ensure your states are fully counted. [inaudible] sorry. S back, should i go back . You should go back. To where . To montana. Shes going back. I regret that the sound was dropped, so i am now going back. We had a technical problem. Not a partisan issue. Ok, this is ok. This is not a partisan issue. Let me quote from a letter that senator steve daines from montana sent to Mitch Mcconnell , urging themumer to pass legislation to extend the deadlines. He wrote, and i quote, given the rural nature of montana and the additional challenges brought about by the covid19 pandemic, reverting the deadline back to september 30, 2020, will leave tens of thousands of montanans uncounted and underrepresented at the federal level. Nearly half of the households in the state have yet to be counted. It is critical that a full and accurate census is completed and every montanan is counted. This should not be a partisan issue. This is a republican senator from montana. He supports the extensions because people from his state will lose federal funding to which they are entitled. Over 1. 5 trillion is distributed every year based on census numbers and formulas to our cities and states and to our people. On saturday, a federal judge issued an order temporarily halting efforts to end the census early. This is good news, but we should not wait for the courts to determine the fate of the senses. Last month, in this room, four former census directors, one of then, john thompson, is here with us today. They warned that we cannot have an accurate census using the current schedule. The Coronavirus Crisis has made that impossible. If you support full and fair funding for your state, if you support providing your constituents with health care, wellfunded schools, hospitals, even roads and bridges, then you should support these extensions. They will ensure your states a estate is fully counted. This debt senate should do what the Trump Administration originally requested and what people at the Census Bureau need, pass legislation to extend these deadlines and ensure a full and fair and accurate census for our country. Thank you for your indulgence. I will give the Ranking Member extra time, should he require it and want it. Recognize the wrecking member Ranking Member for his opening statement. Thank you, chairwoman maloney. I appreciate you calling us in today, even though we got in 22 minutes late. Let me begin by saying, unequivocally, the 2020 census has challenged every resident in the United States, regardless of citizenship status. Any assertions to the contrary or scare are scare tactics. The census is underway now. I want to encourage all people to complete the census form. Onsus takers are knocking doors to not responding households. I encourage everyone to engage. If you are concerned about them coming to your door, you can complete your 2020 census online now. [indiscernible] instead, democrats have once launched a partisan investigation into the 2020 census. Surprise attack. Hearing is supposedly about the accuracy of the 2020 census. However, no witnesses from the bureau have been invited. Why arent we hearing from the Census Bureau about the senses . Census . Well, its because democrats dont like what they have to say. In transcribed briefings, three officials stated that as of now, the 2020 senses could be accurately and fully completed by september 30 of this year. These stats contradict the democrats narrative about the 2020 senses, so they just wanted to ignore them. The truth is that technological improvements have made it impossible to gather information more info more efficiently than ever before. Here are the facts, according to career Census Bureau officials. As of september 8, 2020, nationwide, 88. 8 of all households have been counted in the 2020 senses. Followup, 66 of the has been completed. Have counted 90 or more of all households. All states have counted 75 or more of all households. They are working at a more productive pace than expected. The000 are working across country with another 69,000 in training to begin later. These are the real facts about the senses that all americans should know. The democrats know these facts but are choosing to ignore them. President trump took a very important step to ensuring equal representation under our constitution. The president enacted the secondary of commerce to [indiscernible] which in excludes nonlegal residents, including Illegal Immigrants. Includeicans should [indiscernible] including Illegal Immigrants only dilutes representation for all americans and makes a mockery of our basic rentable of one person, one vote. The president s action restores the concept of government provisions by the constitutions. Constitution. [indiscernible] representation should matter to everyone. Its a simple question of fairness. Predictably, the democrats leftwing allies have already filed lawsuits. I have no doubt the information gathered in the partisan advanced investigation will be linked to their leftwing friends. [indiscernible] the legal questions about the president s actions are likely to end up at the Supreme Court. Coordinated Pressure Campaign against chief Justice Roberts and the other Supreme Court justices. The democratic minority, leftwing allies are all working together to undermine the 2020 senses. I urge that we all focus on the task at hand. Census bytion of the september 30, 2020. Thank you, and i yield back. Thank you. I now recognize my good friend, mr. Raskin, who is the chairman of the subcommittee on civil rights and Civil Liberties for an opening statement. Thank you so much, madam chair, for holding this hearing and being such a great champion for the census. Toanted to take a second remind my friend that the Trump Administration must a case to challenge it in the Supreme Court. It has already rejected their efforts to post graffiti all over the census. Look, its difficult enough in a normal year to conduct the senses of all the American People. Its infinitely harder in the middle of a pandemic and the intricate plans and military like schedule that was a decade in the making had been completely unended upended by this Coronavirus Crisis and the incompetence and indifference of the Trump Administration, thereby creating an unprecedented challenge for the bureau despite the herculean effort and theres still a shocking amount left to do to meet the mandate. Least 3 ofday, at households had not given counted in florida, North Carolina, new mexico, south carolina, louisiana, arizona, mississippi, montana, and georgia. At the bottom is alabama, where the bureau still has not enumerated 20 of households. That doesnt seem like much, perhaps, but 1520 are not counted, more than 12 million americans will be missed. The threat of an inaccurate cap is no more of a blue state problem then covid19 is a blue state problem. Of those 10 states at the bottom of the barrel in numeration, seven republicans represent in them or on this committee. Republicans. By more than half of those states have all republican delegations in the senate. This is a problem not for blue states or red states, but people of the United States. The census is important for two main things, money or power. If you dont care, dont worry about the senses. If you do, pay attention. I have the honor of serving on the subcommittee. Many dont realize how crucial the census is to our covid19 response and the ability of the government to meet the needs of the people. Act, which established the relief fund, required it be distributed based on population data. Callus studies tracking the prevalence have relied on census data and our understanding of the disproportionate impact on communities of color is also based on census data. The census is used two determinate to determine hospitals, where to set up shop, and to help cities and counties determine where to build roads that will help carry workers and consumers to businesses. The senses cannot become a hostage, once again, to a political fight perpetrated by this administration and their allies in congress. It is foundational to the american constitutional system and to representative democracy. There will only grow in importance as we use the data to fight the pandemic and rebuild our devastated economy. This is not the time to rush things in the interest of some partisan advantage. It is time to get it right. The pandemic has not only made the count itself harder. It has made post in numeration data integrity even more compelling and essential. In a normal year, the bureau counts everyone as close to april 1 as possible. This year, it has been stretched for many months, six or seven months. Six or seven months with people scattered around the country. College students have abandoned their dorms. Laidoff workers are moved in with families. Medical professionals are shuffled around the nation to hotspots. Essential workers quarantined themselves away from normal family members. Loved ones who have been counted on april 1 sadly succumbed to the disease before their household was enumerated. I need not remind my colleagues we have lost more than 190,000 americans to this nightmare. The chances seem higher than ever before that a lot of people are going to be missed while others may be double counted. This calls for a more comprehensive, robust, and elongated post in numeration data review process. But instead, the bureau cut its schedule by 40 from 150 days to around 90 days. The bureau knows this is not enough time. We all know this is not enough time. The bureau has been asking for an extension since april, when it first concluded it could not meet the current steps to redistricting while still delivering the high quality counts. The house has already agreed to this common sense plan, but the heroes act, which granted the extension the administration requested, still is not law. This has left the bureau stick scrambling and caused the agency to abandon its carefully crafted Data Processing schedule for a seat of a plan cobbled together in a couple of days. This is not how an efficient modern government operates. This is what happens in failed states, not functioning democracies. Every census expert, including the bureau excelled, agrees it is unattainable and unsustainable and inconsistent with the constitution. Toall upon my gop colleagues give the bureau the time it says it needs to do the census right in 2020. I dont believe anyone here wants their constituents to go uncounted. Nobody wants their constituents to be missed, so lets make sure it doesnt happen. Lets pass this common sense extension and make sure that we have a comprehensive, full, and accurate census we will have to live with the result of it for a decade. And if 2020 has taught us anything, everything depends on getting things right the first time. With that, i yield back to you and thank you for the time. We would like to introduce our witnesses. We are grateful their attendance and expertise. Thompson whojohn h served as the census director from 20132017. And then christopher men, the managing director of the Strategic Issues team at the Government Accountability office. Then we will hear from steven lewis who serves as the governor of the indian river community. Director ofecutive the North Carolina Counts Coalition. Finally, our guest who is a senior legal fellow at the heritage foundation. We will swear the witnesses in. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help you god . Enteredshow witnesses in the affirmative. Your written statements will be made part of the record. Mr. Thompson, you are recognized for your testimony. You want to turn in your mic . Sorry, good morning. Drinking chairwoman. Thank you for this opportunity to testify regarding providing the bureau with time to produce a complete and accurate census. I am concerned the actions to byncate 2020 activities affect the0 could accuracy of the 2026 it 2020 census. Testimony,owing oral i will present an overview of these concerns. The Census Bureau will not followup effective to households who do not respond. Million households did not respond to the 2020 census. The operation to enumerate these households is what the bureau refers to as nonresponse followup. Then the magnitude of nonresponse households, to achieve an accurate count for all populations in areas. The Census Bureau took action to revise Data Collection. U was scheduled to conclude by october 30, 2020. In august, the your announced the bureaued have to take steps to complete it more quickly than planned given they had already lost more than a third of the schedule developed under the original plan. These adjustments were steps they may include not making sufficient enumeration attempts in hard to count communities. Hard to count communities have a significantly lower level of self response and a correspondingly larger portion under not fall making proper attempts will lead to a higher proportion of incomplete responses. The Census Bureau will have to rely on more approximation than in previous since ezs. Censuses. Proxyer proportion of enumerations will increase error. The bureau will be forced to onplete nrfu by relying administrative records to a greater extent than planned. It is not representative of immigrant and minority. It will increase result in undercount of these populations. Limitations imposed the truncated schedule will force a higher proportion of enumerations, resulting in the to a greater extent than an previous since in previous censuses. Actions are actually what is being implement it by the bureau, it is clear quality is being sacrificed to meet the september 30, 2020 deadline. The schedule for post data. Ollection has been truncated raising concerns of undiscovered computer errors. The initial schedule allowed five months for the post data Operations Prior to the release of the portion that counts. In itssus bureau issued request for an extension of the deadlines, there were six months allocated to the post Data Collection processing. Under the current schedule, there are only three months available. Bureau has released Little Information about how it plans to address the limited time frame. For example, there is no discussion of how it plans to remove duplicate enumerations. The bureau has stated the time allotted for subject Matter Expert review and Software Mediation has been compressed by cutting 21 days from the schedule. This is alarming because the welldeveloped plans for this phase were based on extensive planning. The likelihood of a serious computer error that goes undetected is very high. In conclusion, thank you for this opportunity. I look forward to answering any questions you may have. Thank you for your testimony and your service as a census director that help develop this plan that is being compressed. I would like to call upon mr. Mim. You are now recognized. Think you him chairwoman. Thank you, madam chairwoman. It is a great honor to be here today to talk about the status of the 2020 census. I have the privilege of talking colleagues have been doing. Our bottom line is like the rest of the country including the congress, the Census Bureau was forced to respond to the covid19 national emergency. It undertook a series of changes that resulted in delays, compressed time frames, untested procedures. We believewhich could undermine the quality of the count and escalate costs. Our statement is based on the report entitled 2020 census, recent decision to compress, poses a risk to accurate count. The bureau announced it would and Data Collection by september 30. Dateseptember 30 cut off is one month earlier than the bureau had planned. Would shortens it first. In order to meet statutory deadlines. Incomments will cover issues both of those areas. First in regards to field Data Collection. The good news is as of september 8, the bureau is about 70 complete following up on household where it did not have a census form. This is ahead of the goal to be at 62 . On the other hand, not progressgly, census varies markedly. Localnsus is inherently and some areas are lagging from the National Average. High rates of covid19 and some areas, weather events such as hurricane laura, wildfires affect the bureau to visit households. As of september 1, 49 of the 248 local census offices had not met followup goals. To bureau planned to hire up 435,000 enumerators. However, as of september 8, they only 355,000. Seven offices were below 50 of their goal in terms of the number of enumerators. Address staffing shortfalls, they bureau is providing incentive awards based on productivity and hours worked. The bureau made operational adjustments. As of mentioned, september 5, the temporary restraining order was issued that enjoins the Census Bureau allowing any actions as a result of the shortened timelines. The ability to continue with adjustments, it is unclear at the time. We will continue to monitor and follow up on these operations. Regards to this the mind streamlined process, the agreement says as director thompson mentioned, the bureau has less time to collect Data Collection opportunities. During census response processing, the bureau checks for duplicate and incomplete responses. More appropriate uses of records to supplement data. The bureau expects this processing in midoctober astead of january, 2021 previously planned. This means activities planned for 150 days will have to be completed 90 days. Plans may change because of the similar september 5 restraining order. About conclude on a point public participation. There is still time to fill out the form. There is still time to cooperate with the census taker. The National Need is to have an accurate census. This concludes my statement. I would be pleased to take any questions you may have. Thank you for your testimony. Many timesstified before and we appreciate it. Next, we will hear from governor lewis. He will be by remote. Good morning. Congressman. Members of the committee. For going to thank you holding this important and tiny hearing. I am the governor of the Gila River Community. Our reservation covers 372,000 acres. The committee has 14,000 tribal members residing on the reservation. I want to state the Community Supports this effort to legislatively extend census operations through october 31st, 2020. The statutory deadlines for reporting deadlines were effective. An accurate census is critical to Indian Country. It is not an exaggeration to say an accurate census can be a matter of life or death in tribal communities. The program impacted by a census count affects delivery of health care. Youth, violence against women grants, and other programs that sustain tribal communities. We have a reason to be concerned an accurate count will not occur if the Census Bureau ends Field Operations. During the initial stages of the coronavirus pandemic, the Census Bureau temporarily suspended operations. The commerce secretary announced a plan to extend operations through 2020. And seek 120 days for apportionment and redistricting. However, they changed the deadline to september 30. They are no longer seeking an extension for reporting. This is troubling to the Gila River Community and other tribal leaders and organizations i have spoken to. Indian country was the most undercounted demographic. That was during a regular census cycle. Rateurrent self response is 10. 1 . 10. 1 . That means if the census were to end today, i could only be certain to thousand 200 of our would be a National Rate of 65. 5 . We are not alone. If you look at the chart, you will see of 19 responders in arizona, 72 are below a 50 Response Rate. 33 responsea rate. These rates are staggeringly low. Many tribal communities like the gila river, in person contact is the only method to make sure our households are counted and that was not possible this year. We are in the midst of a global pandemic. Indian country has the distinction of being the most affected population. The reasons can be tied back to programs relying on census data like housing. If a structure. Elder care, to name a few. The circumstances that created the interruption could not have been predicted or prevented. Aat can be prevented is rushed count. Censusempt to cut off operations during the pandemic with the understanding it will result in such a significant undercount for Indian Country is is anly irresponsible, it breach of the responsibility between the United States and tribal nations. At the Gila River Community, our reservation has been in shoulder at home status for all but four weeks since march. My executive order to acquire a mask was one of the first in the state. I did that because as a leader, it is my responsibility to put the health and safety of my people and all those in the reservation first. The gila riveran community gave up our rights to be counted. The stakes are too high. We have the right to adequate federal representation and congress and for our voices to be heard. The tribal members of the Gila Community count. 574 tribal of all nations must be counted. Tribalg other than the is unacceptable. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. I am happy to answer questions. Thank you for your testimony. You are now recognized, ms. Carlos. Maloney, Ranking Member and members of the committee, i am an executive and see Counts Coalition is an nonprofit ananization to achieve accurate count for North Carolina. We believe accurate census data is essential for north carolinians. Outrage on the ground is connected to North Carolina communities. Covid19 is disrupting this operation. About 3. 8 million individuals are missing from North Carolinas count, putting North Carolina at risk of missing out fundingllion in federal and not gaining our expected 14 seat in the house. Carolina have self responded. This is below the 65. 5 National Average and the self Response Rate of 64 four. North carolina has 100 counties. The 2010ave surpassed self Response Rate. Hasently, census track raised proportions of residents that identify as american indian, black, or latino. These populations have been hit hard by covid19 and felt the impact of hurricanes. Other factors include low internet access, college and military communities, and census tracts with a High Percentage of children under five. North carolina needs an extended timeline. We are concerned North Carolina is on the verge of a failed 2020 census. On july 14, the Census Bureau announced it would begin a multiple questionnaire program. Some counties were considered highrisk counties. 12, staff30 to august were discouraged from working in ounty with more than half we are concerned about the accuracies of nonresponse followups due to allegations of adequate training, reports of terminated employees, and accounts of enumerators not knocking on doors. Our organization dropped off information in low responding tracts. An enumeratorrved placing a form at the doorstep without even knocking on doors. Share one example of an instance that has raised red flags. We hear from current and past staff concerns they have about census operations. We are concerned about the quality of data being collected through the nonresponse followup operations. The current timeline, it will be nearly impossible for enumerators to knock on doors of households that have yet to respond. We are concerned about the current nonResponse Rate. We are focusing on addresses where homeserate allow for easier enumeration versus deploying resources to low performing census tracts where black and brown families actually reside. I have provided you that to illustrate our concerns. We understand the impact this enumeration will have on communities for the next 10 years. Our children need a complete and accurate census. Our seniors need a complete and accurate census. Paramilitary Community Needs a complete and accurate census as they fulfill their commitment to serve our country. It is our commitment to serve them. Our organization has done our accountget out the across North Carolina. We need more time. The constitution gives congress the responsibility for getting the census right. If there is any hope, the deadline must be extended to at least october 31, 2020. Thank you very much for your testimony. Air final speaker. You are now recognized. Can you hear me, madame chairman . Yes, thank you. Quite excited appreciate the invitation to be here. It is essential the Census Bureau follow precedents and andect data on citizens informationusing the president has supplied. That data is important not only for apportionment and redistricting, but the enforcement of the Voting Rights act. It was is within the authority of the chief executive to direct collection of citizenship data. It is also necessary for a consensus on National Immigration policy. Without data, it is not possible to have an informed debate about what policy should be. This edison the Census Bureau has been collecting data since 1820. It currently collects it through the American Community survey. However, since it is only sent out to 2. 5 households, it does not collect complete data. The executive order ensures the Census Bureau has access to all available records. The limited citizenship data is routinely used by the department enforcing section two of the Voting Rights act. Ensuring minority voters have the opportunity to elect representatives of their choice. The remedy to a section two violation is to draw a district in which minority voters citizens constitute a majority such they can elect their candidates of choice. Citizen population data is essential to drawing effective population data. Use oftice department this can be seen in numerous complaints used by both democratic and republican administrations, but it is hampered by limited data. In totalportionment data that includes illegal aliens is unfair to american citizens and dilutes and diminishes the value of their vote. Trumpy 21, president issued a memorandum saying illegal aliens be excluded from the population used for apportionment. This is within his authority. Since the first census, we have not counted every individual physically present in each state. As is the normal procedure, this quote, citizens in vacation or business trips are not counted. The u. S. Supreme court pointed out the key phrase concerning the number of persons quote in each state can and this is a quote mean more than physical presence. It has been used broadly enough to include some element of allegiance or enduring tie to a place. Illegal aliens like tourists have no element of political allegiance. They cannot be called for jury duty or drafted for military service if we had a mandatory draft because they owe their political allegiance to their native country. Illegal aliens have no enduring tie to any state since they are a legally present. They can be picked up and detained by authorities and removed from the u. S. That is excluding individuals who have no allegiance or tie to a state. Thats within the resident set by a court. As the court said in reynolds v , achieving a fair and effective representation of all the basic aim of legislative apportionment. Illegal aliens are not citizens. The fact that they might be temporarily or merely living in a state does not make them inhabitants who must be counted for apportionment purposes. Distorts them unfairly the Political Representation of states. Fundamentals the current leadership has testified it has the time and resources to count as itaccurate has in numerous prior counts. That includes a complete count of citizens and noncitizens. Much for yourery testimony. Of our participants today. I recognize myself for five minutes for questions. I want to address my questions to the two people here from states that could lose millions of dollars in federal funding as a result of a rushed undercount. Carlos from North Carolina. From arizona. This will not just happen in democratic leaning states. It will happen in states with Republican Voters and representatives, too. Are lagging states behind in your census counts for a variety of reasons including the Coronavirus Crisis. Right now, the National Average of response is 88. 8 . Carolina is only at 82. 9 . Worse at 80. 8 . Words, North Carolina is six Percentage Points behind the National Average. Is eight Percentage Points behind. Meansdiscuss what this for federal funding for your states. Report we issued this morning, we estimated how much funding your state would lose within undercount of just 1 . Based on that estimate, North Carolina could lose more than 99 million in federal funding. That includes funding for health education,training, transit, and much more. And that is for just one year. Over 10 years, that would be nearly 1 billion. And thefederal funding, people of your state, the people of North Carolina are entitled to under the law, but they will not get it if they are not counted. What does right and that mean for your state. For your question, and yes, that is correct. Carolina is the fourth fastestgrowing state in the country. Our state needs every dollar we are entitled to for infrastructure, resources for our growing population. I think it magnifies importance of how programs relate back to the senses. Right now in North Carolina there are one million utility customers that would as well as application for Food Assistance programs has increased by 15 and unemployment is high. North carolina is going to need every dollar we are entitled to two recover from the financial hardships of this pandemic. Governor lewis, according to our estimates, and undercount of just 1 in arizona could mean reduction of federal funds of over 60 million. Again, thats just for one year. Decade, which is what the senses number stand for, complete 10 years, that would be over 600 million. And there is another factor, as you testified, arizona has large tribal and rural areas in their accounts are far below even the states average right now. So governor lewis, federal funding helps not only the tribal communities who desperately needed, but the entire state of arizona. These are funds that the people of your state are due under these federal programs, that they wont get it if things continue like this and go on as is planned. Isnt that right, governor lewis . And can you elaborate . What will not getting a full and accurate count of everyone in arizona mean to your state . Maloney you, chairwoman , for bringing attention to the state of arizona. What the report shows, if its the same percentage as the committee survey, the population is both at risk for underfunding and also the most honorable populations, hispanics, asian americans, young children, and over 19,000 american indians. Each of those numbers represents an individual who wont be counted for purposes of education, health care, elder care, Food Security and other programs. There is an individual, family and Community Behind each of those numbers that will be by theably harmed undercount anticipated. And it is much greater given the pandemic interruption of operations. In a realworld scenario, i dont have a specific dollar amount but i can provide an example that came about as a result of a allocation of trouble really fun and the cares act. The Treasury Department used in large part the population from the Block Grant Program to distribute those funds. And undercount of approximately 8000 tribal members insulted in tens of millions of dollars allocated to our trouble government to tribal government during the pandemic. They received little or no money to combat covid19 from the population allocation. This will be with us for decades, not just one year or one decade. Ask one lastke to question to each of you and that you both respond. You both have republican senators represent your states. Senator mcsally represents arizona and senator tillis and senator burke present North Carolina. Id like the two of you to please explain, take a moment and tell your senators whatever you want about the need to extend the census deadlines and what it will mean for the people of your state if they fail to act. All we are asking is to extend deadlines. Governor lewis, lets start with you. If senator mcsally were listening right now, what would you want to say to her about the need for an accurate, full census count . Madam chair, i would tell my the samen delegation thing i would tell all congressional members. The senses should not be a political or partisan issue. The census is too important to all tribal nations, state and local governments who rely on funding to provide for the basic needs of our citizens. The low Response Rates that are currently being afforded are just as detrimental to those states deemed red states or blue states. The ranking of state responses placed more red states then blue states. We have to make sure there is an accurate count. It is in everyones interest that the census is accurate. Our tribal citizens are relying on it, and frankly, every member of congress should be relying on it, because the census determines representation and school representation, and that bible in Indian Country as i represent my Tribal Community for its tribal trust relationship, madam chair. To thees right underpinnings of our constitution. What would you say to the senators from North Carolina . Senator tillis and senator burke, i urge you to support a later deadline for the 2020 census operation. 44 billion and essential data to help guide allocation of resources and services for north carolinians across our state. Senator tillis, you advocated for North Carolinas soldiers and marines to be counted as residents of the state, regardless of whether or not they were deployed abroad. Unfortunate, the counties that are home to military families are underperforming, leaving military families at risk for losing resources that would help support luke perry personnel and their families. Lets not let the work we put going bang. Lets do everything we can together to report a complete and accurate 2020 census count for our state. Thank you, i hope they are both listening. The rankingto thatr who has designated congressman gosar is next. I recognize him for questions. Is there a technical problem . There seems to be some technical problem. I now yield to congressman heise. You are now recognized. Thank you, madam chair. Can. E begin with you if i im sure you are aware of the recent stats that the bureau has come out regarding the nonresponse followup, is that correct . Yes, sir. Im getting a little different type of in onetion, because regard, we are like 70 ahead of the game, but in other ways we are not. Autumn line, would you consider the bureau ahead of projections, or behind . As i mentioned, sir, there is good news, and that is that they are ahead on the nonresponse followup, but where their goal would be at this point, the challenge they have, and weve seen this in every single census, its getting that last few Percentage Points of the population, and that is still something they need to work on and that will will be very difficult for them to do, but they are ahead of their schedule, according to their plan at this point. I would imagine every census has problems on difficulties getting the last handful to respond. Nonrespondents are nonrespondents, it doesnt matter which census we are talking about. Bottom line, we are ahead of projections, i think that is incredible news. In light of that, districts like mine, just for example, the tent district of georgia, largely rural, we are reporting less again come the bureau estimated there would be 60 of self respondents, and yet in our district we have certain areas of our district that we dont even have 60 counted yet. So we have technological advances, we are using ipads, laptops, weve got a lot of things going on, and yet in some rural areas like mine, we are still struggling to get the numbers. My question is, whats the problem . Is it technology, is it the pandemic . What is the issue and some of these more rural districts . In some cases its almost a perfect storm. Certainly the pandemic has wreaked havoc on the bureaus ability to first, in terms of recruiting people, they are having also problems with turnover. The turnover estimates were about 10 would come into running, its actually over double that. They are also having trouble obviously with people being willing to open the doors and talk, even though they practice ppe and are keeping a six foot distance away from that. The big challenge the Census Bureau runs into is getting that last couple of 2 or 3 of the population. For a 10 week operation nonresponse followup, its not uncommon for the last four weeks to be going after 2 of the population. That is the important point because we want everyone counted and we make sure those hardest account and enumerate communities are actually included in the census. Here, do real problem you feel comfortable that we will get 97 in the real problem will be getting that last 3 or so . That has typically been the challenge the bureau faces. Obviously its even more compressed this time, but if they end up with 3 without being fully enumerated, by all historical standards and the standards of the professionals at the bureau not a complete and accurate count. So that would be a major defeat, institutional defeat for the Census Bureau. So would less than 20 days or so remaining for the Field Operations, right now the Biggest Challenges will stretch for our rule districts obviously Internet Connectivity is somewhat of a problem, but one of what are the Biggest Challenges you are facing as we approach this deadline . First, making sure we have enough enumerators out there, and that they are working enough hours. Thats part of what the incentive pay program the Census Bureau has put in place to try to address, to get the enumerators to work more hours. Thats probably one of the biggest things. Having thething is public cooperate and participate with the Census Bureau. The bureau has continued its Community Outreach programs because they know in a lot of areas around the country having trust in local voices speak up and talk about the importance of the census, as a couple of the witnesses here have done, is very important to convincing people to participate in the we dontnd hopefully have other coronavirus spikes and other related events that would certainly derail the Census Bureau if any of that happen. We areyou feel like going to make the deadline, is that correct . Im not trying to parse words here, but the Census Bureau will complete a census. Its a question, the risk is what will be lost . Will it be a less than historically acceptable count in terms of completeness, in terms of accuracy, and thats the big word that i think everyone faces. You, i healed. I yield. Congresswoman norton, you are now recognize. Thank you, madam chair, for this important hearing. I want to get a sense of what we are talking about here. When we hear that the time has been cut from five months to explainnths, could you how the Census Bureau develops timelines for Data Collection and processing, so we will understand what this reduction in months means. Certainly, congresswoman, im delighted to respond. So the Census Bureau began their 2013, and weam in conducted a number of tests, did a lot of research, understanding the time that was available to conduct the 2020 census. And based on that extensive planning and preparation, they developed a schedule. Allowed for five months of post Data Collection processing. Thats basically how its been done. Is certainly not an arbitrary timeline. To me further ask, in order process this data on a shortened bureau havell the to alter or eliminate some of the processes you have developed to ensure a complete and accurate census . A court suitin filed, the Census Bureau said it plans to cut 21 days from the schedule by compressing the time , subject for subject Matter Expert legal and software creation. Does the change increase the risk of an inaccurate or incomplete data . If so, why . Congresswoman, that is also a good point. What that operation entails is for the Census Bureau subject Matter Experts to look at preliminary tabulations of census data and compare them with wellknown benchmarks and understand what is causing differences. And then they have to go back and if they find a difference and understand is this a computer problem or is it involving census counts or what. So its very important that they carry out this operation because thats one of the ways in which they find that there are errors in their computer programming, and then they can fix those errors. If they dont fix the errors [indiscernible] heres another change mentioned. The change described is that the 11sus bureau will eliminate Quality Control steps. Does it change getting accurate and complete data, and if so, why . The Census Bureau, on a lot of their operations including nonresponse followup interviewing, they have quality checks that they build in to the enumerators are doing highquality work. So if those quality checks are reduced, that introduces the enumeratorat more fabrication might occur and not be detected, and put more error into the system. Concerned that 92 days will not be enough time to ensure that the census is as accurate and complete as possible . As ive testified, im very concerned that the effect of the truncated schedule on both Data Collection and post Data Collection processing on the accuracy and quality of the 2020 census. Thank you, madam chair. Jordan, you are now recognized. Thank you, madam chair. Ago on august 28, the deputy director, chief operating officer of the nine site Census Bureau said we will be able to produce a complete and accurate census by the deadline. 27, 2020, again, two weeks ago, to most in, associate director for Field Operations said yes, we are on track to get this done on time. 2020, the associate for the Census Program set all the indications are that we are on track. So three professionals each said they are on track, and yet chairwoman maloney said we need arension, and there Witnesses Today saying we need an extension. So i just have a simple question, should we trust the partisan democrats on this committee and those who come the peopley, or are actually doing the job career professionals at the Census Bureau, who do you think we should trust . I think i would go with the professional career Senior Leadership at the Census Bureau. They are the ones who have planned, implemented, supervised, and directed the entire Census Program, and my experience both as a Government Employee and elsewhere is that they are the ones that ought to be trusted. I should point out those statements made just two weeks ago a part of the democrats investigation, this is democrats bringing these individuals in under oath and the individual said we are on track to get the census done on time. Weve got people coming who are not part of the census saying we need an extension, yet we have the folks doing the job saying we are going to be done on time. 80 of households have already been counted in the 2020 census. Citizen deluded when the illegals are counted in the . Number they are, by including them in the proportion account, those evaluating individual citizens, but plus youre cheating a particular state out of congressional representation in the house when other states get more representatives because of individuals. So like tourists, arent supposed be counted during census for apportionment for a visit. Is common sense, in the case you cited in your opening statement. Thats right, and most andrtantly, the front versus massachusetts case gives the president some discretion in determining with the Commerce Department and the Census Bureau who should be considered in tab inhabitants of the state. That made it clear that having allegiance and other ties to estate is an important consideration. That is exactly what is behind the president s july 21, 2020 where he said count toryone but provide a number the president and use that number for the enforcement of congressional seats, is that right . That is absolutely correct. And everyone understands thats how it should work. Common sense, the only people who are against that are democrats. Isnt that amazing . To determine the number of members each state had in the house of representatives. To me its frightening that that is their lack of logic that goes against common sense, goes against the memorandum, goes against what any person you go out and talk to on the street say needs to happen. If you count everyone, we need to know the number of legal residents and citizens in this country. 100 . Gree with that madam chair, i yield back. Thank you so much, madam chair, for holding this important hearing. Let me say to director thompson, so good to see you again, and we had a great working relationship during the 2010 census, and you and i know that the census is a once in a decade government function enshrined in the constitution and conducted since 1790. I would hope this would not be the census taken in our long history that would be followed incomplete butas not a full count because of selfish political reasons. Thompson, and lets be very clear about one thing. Andges to the apportionment redistricting deadlines was first requested by the Census Bureau and the trump the trumption before administrations sudden reversal. Prevent a serious undercount or in incomplete sentences from occurring at this stage of this process . Thank you, congressman. At this point, the Census Bureau itsly needs more time to do Data Collection and to do its post Data Collection process. So for example, the Census Bureau had announced that as of september 11, which is tomorrow, they were going to go to what they call close up in the entire country for the nonresponse follow up operations. To get a lastle attempt of basic bear information on households. Maybe they only get that the household is occupied. Thats tomorrow. Censusre are some areas offices that the Census Bureau is publishing data for that are under 50 complete would nonresponse follow up, i would think that would be pretty scary, to me. So the Census Bureau needs more time to do the Data Collection and they certainly need more time to do the Data Processing. And that is why it is so important that we extend the delivery date, is that correct . Exactly. Mihm, why was it so important for the bureau to conduct census operations after the outbreak of the coronavirus . Like the rest of the country and certainly like the congress, the Census Bureau had to in , nott shut down nationally just in local areas. The spiking of the cases meant that it was very difficult to get people on board. This would be the census takers that would be actually doing the work. They were quite certain they would not be able to get the participation from communities, they had to stop a lot of there in person Partnership Programs and theres only so much you can do over webex and zoom. So the Census Bureau concluded that there was just no effective way and at the peak of the covid outbreaks at least, that they could carry on operations. They went through a very disciplined process in june and a very thoughtful one, using criteria of which offices would reopen when based on local Health Conditions and the availability of ppe for census takers. So now they are open nationally. On july 8, 2020, the associate director for the millennial Census Program, referring to the december 2020 deadline stated, i quote, we are passed the window of being able to get those by those dates at this point. Do you agree with the bureaus Public Statement that the bureau is past the time where they can produce complete and accurate census data by their current deadlines . I know him well, i talked to him often. Utmost respect for them. It will be an enormous challenge for the Census Bureau to deliver counts that meet the historical demands for accuracy and completeness. Each census has gotten better than the previous one, and that has been a big achievement in an environment in which society continues to change, the willingness to participate has gone down, but we are doing better with each census. The great worry now is if whether or not this will be a census that takes a step back if we do the compressed time frames due to covid19 and the other challenges they are running into. I thank you for your responses. I yield back. Thank you so much for your thoughtful questions, and in line with your questions, without objections i would like to place into the record this internal document from census professionals that i released along with the other democratic members last week. In it the professionals say they need more time, they say this compressed schedule creates risk for serious errors that would not be discovered from the data. I ask without objection to put this in the record. I recognize congressman grossman. Thank you very much. Can you hear me . Yes, we can. I have a couple of questions, and a followup on what jim jordan had to say. One of theent reasons people want to extend want to find more people, and particularly they want to find more Illegal Immigrants. Do you get that sense here . I do not know about that. Like everybody else, i want an accurate count. Important is very that aliens here illegally not inincluded, not be included redistricting. We know the number of noncitizens, in order to effectively enforce section ii of the Voting Rights act is an important statute. I think it is interesting and what we have seen so far in this people wantarently to extend it and feel people have not been counted. I do not know how you can avoid being counted because it is so difficult. The you think one of the problems is if we let this drag on, we will have people double counted as they move about the country . That has always been a problem with the census. I would bring up history, over the past few decades, every census we have had there have been cries and criticism saying it will not be accurate, people will be undercounted. In every one of those that has proven not true. I am thinking of over Accounting College students, people who move, do you think that is a worry . Studentsecause so many have left their colleges and gone home. Many of them were still there on april 1, and may get double counted. Is it possible if you look for people in october, september that you will get people who were already counted in august, people who have moved since then . Most certainly given the high mobility of the american populace. Do you think people who should not be here at all are particularly mobile or there is a danger they could be over counted . I am under the impression that a lot of times they do. Seasonal work. They may want to obey the law or leave the country. The think it is a problem with people who are here illegally . Yes that is a big risk because people tend aliens tend to move or leave when they see in the press that there are enforcement efforts going on by the department of Homeland Security in their area. If we are worried about double counting and allow the census counting to go on into october, do you think disproportionately we will be over accounting Illegal Immigrants . I do not have enough i think that is a substantial risk. Again theou explain effect of accounting Illegal Immigrants, what effect this will have on individual states who may be aggressively trying to recruit Illegal Immigrants, states that have a disproportionate high number, california being obvious one . States thateans is incentivize illegal aliens to come to their states by putting in century policies are using those populations to get more congressional seats than they are entitled to at the cost of other states in the country that lose congressional seats, which they are to have because they do not have those large numbers in their states. It distorts what should be equitable distribution of the u. S. House of representatives. I suppose that is true. Does it create a reverse incentive for century policies theng we want to foil immigration laws because we want more illegal people in our state . That is what it is encouraging . Yes, i think that is exactly what it does. Thank you. I will yield the remainder of my time. Thank you. Congressman lynch, you are recognized. , madam chair. Thank you for having this hearing, and i think the contribution of our witnesses. Thei gently suggest questioning, we went into this hearing or an hour 50 minutes before we had questions. I know we had technical difficult these, but if i could suggest we might be able to streamline these a little bit, it might be helpful. I know how hard our staff works, but that is a long time. Myill be an hour late for next hearing, and there are other members on the committee in that position. If we could figure that out, especially getting into the normal flow of business again, it will be problematic. Me a little time and everybody else, let me associate myself with the articulate remarks of the gentleman from maryland, mr. Raskin and his summation. I agree wholeheartedly with the concerns he has raised, and i appreciate the energy and intellect he has put into those remarks. A smalllike to take piece of the problem and trying to get at that in my question. With the congresswoman representing the boston area, we both represent the city of boston. We have a huge number of universities and colleges here in the Greater Boston area, cambridge and all of that. You might be the best person to answer this question. We have not been able to studentsup until now who are normally counted. These are not students on campus, but those who live off campus. We have not been able to get them in the count. Part of that is we are not getting the full cooperation because of the pandemic that we normally get from the universities. Also the curtailment of going out and getting these in theonse followups tally. Thoughts you have regarding how we might be better . There are a lot of College Towns all across the country that are having the same problem. That particular difficulty, do you have any recommendations how we might best count that demographic . Gao, we have also heard from the Inspector General offhe gao, concerns that Campus College students are being undercounted that is what we are finding in our area. I would ask the witnesses if they can help us out on that. What is a better way to get those people in the tally . Thank you for that question. I think one thing that could be done is a more concentrated toort on reaching out colleges and universities and their administrations to not only make sure they are consistently sharing the message for offcampus students to make sure they are being counted, they have a lot of things going on. If you give them the message to disseminate so they can tweet it out or email, that would make a world of difference, but that has not been done to date as far as i know. Very briefly, there are two issues. One is the enumeration of students living on campus housing, there are about or a thousand of those nationally. The bureau was able to reach out universities to get what they feel is an ok count on that of response for those. The bigger challenge is for those living off campus and attending the university. The Census Bureau does not have access to all that information. What they did in the middle of june, sent a letter to different universities saying, can you help us with the count . They got some good response, but said some uneven response. Some universities said they will not participate or cooperate helping get a count of students offcampus. To the extent we can urge those universities to participate to my that would be hopeful. And the issue that has been discussed throughout the theing, it is one thing if census takes place when students are residing on campus, it is an easier intellectual point to say this is the usual residence. If they have been home for weeks and are still home, this is where they would live outside the university, it gets tougher. You can see heather would be you can see how they would be missed in their towns. My time is exhausted. I want to say it is wonderful to see you on the call. You look great, and i yield back. Thank you for your remarks. We recognize representative gosar. Congressman gosar, you are recognized. I believe he is trying to unmute. Mr. Gosar, would you like help unmuting . Sorry about that. Can you hear me now . We can hear you now. Thank you very much. Census data reported as of arizona is88. 8 of enumerated. This is below the majority of states. A few days prior to this report, the Census Bureau said arizona was 76. 2 enumerated. This is a productive spike in a short number of days. Mr. Mihm, do you think the decision to remove enumerators to the southwest and southeast, portion where a large has contributed to the increase in my state . I am not able to speak specifically to that case. I can say as a general rule the bureau with each census has moved census takers to areas where they have been having problems recruiting or have a high nonresponse workload. It is not something that they like to do, it can be costly, and there can be data quality concerns. It is something that has been tried and true is an enumeration technique and showed as successful, so it could be a situation in your case as well. Said, what role does technology play in the Response Rate, 5 higher than the bureaus goal . Been a great advantage to the Census Bureau, and a credit to them for pulling it off. In terms of the initial response, the internet auction Internet Option worked without a hitch, convenient, easy, very helpful to the bureau, reduces paper and all the rest. That was an important improvement. And to use technology in enumeration as a nonresponse followup is proving to be valuable. Instead of technical glitches that take place, but overall that is proving to be valuable as well. Notwithstanding continuing concerns with the use of technology, but one in terms of fundamental bedrock enumerations is the use of technology will be a generally positive story. It really supports broadband throughout the country . I will take your point, it is not my brief, sorry. Strategic issues Team Released a report outlining concerns of the count. Getting the large enumerated rates, operational changes made by the bureau, halting staff deadline, allhe seniorlevel nonpolitical census officials, do you stand by your teams report . Yes, sir. , and it is anll important data point. Their ability to produce counts. Our concern are the risks entailed in that. Does that mean they will not present a count at the end . Of course not, i think they will. The challenge will be, is it going to be a better count than we have gotten in the past, because each census has gotten better on that, and will it meet the standards for an accurate and complete count . That is the risk entailed in that. They could easily do it, but it will be an enormous challenge for the bureau. Regards toowup in counting native american tribe members, which are large in my state. The Navajo Nation was locked down, is it easier to get a hold of people in lockdown, or was it harder . Issue withhole, the enumeration in tribal communities has been a historical challenge for the Census Bureau. Some of it is dealing with recruitment problems, initial Response Rates have tended to be low. One of the areas the Census Bureau is most concerned about is the nomination Navajo Nation, and a high workload for the followup as well as experiencing recruiting problems. There has traditionally been problems there. We heard the governor talk about the enormous challenges of how covid has been devastating to many tribal communities. That makes things more difficult for those communities and the Census Bureau. Thank you very much. I yield back. [indiscernible] thank you very much. I thank you for your diligence on the subject. We are glad to have you back, you have been in our prayers. Let me begin by saying i find references to human beings as illegal aliens as offensive. I do not believe that language ought to be part of our discourse today. Demings human beings and makes them things rather than humans that they are. Their status may be up in the air. That has been the case historically. Thompson, what. Does the constitution say with respect to who gets counted in the census . Mr. Thompson, director thompson . Thank you, congressman. I am not ame state constitutional lawyer, but the advice i got when i was at the Census Bureau and as director from good attorneys was that the purpose of the census was to count everyone residing in the United States regardless of immigration status. You do not need to be a constitutional lawyer to read the words, correct . Yes. It does not say, except for those who lack the proper papers . Yes. Has it been the practice of comply withureau to the words of the constitution and count all persons . In my long experience with , they alwaysreau did their best to count everyone in the United States. It is interesting to hear votesalk about diluting of those illegally in the United States. I would like to hear from them. I look forward [indiscernible] and purging voting rolls, making it harder to vote, eliminating early voting, changing precincts arbitrarily to make it hard for people in minority communities to vote. Those vote suppression issues are to be condemned. And mr. Thompson, it has been the practice of the Census Bureau to try to get data early to states that undertake redistricting. Two that come to mind are my home state of virginia, and new jersey. Inhave legislative elections 2021. It has been the practice of the Census Bureau to get our data early so we can undertake forstricting appropriately those elections next year. How might the actions being proposed now in terms of , orailing the census wrecking it up early, how might that affect the ability of the Census Bureau to get accurate data to the states . You. Ank as a resident of virginia, this is an issue, an important issue for me personally. Bureau, wethe census understand they will come out with a plan in the next couple of days as to how they will deliver the redistricting data. One of the tradeoffs they are the amount of time available, to get the apportionment ada, they are focusing only on apportionment data. Other data is important for redistricting. It is needed at all lower geographical level. That is something they would provide a plan in the next few days. That is something we will be looking for, and we will keep your office informed on any observations we have. I think it is important to underscore some states are more affected than others. Thank you so much for that observation. I yield back. Thank you very much. We now recognize mr. Palmer. Thank you. I too welcome you back to the committee. Want to point out as we talk about the unauthorized population, the unauthorized immigrant population stabilized over the last decade or so. They also found a consistent amount of people coming in and out of the country, staying for a short amount of time, then returning to their country of origin. 20 are here less than five years. 40 are here less than 10 years. That does not include noncitizens who are here illegally shortterm such as College Students and guestworkers. I have some questions that i would like to ask. Should we allow noncitizens to run for office . The constitution would not allow noncitizens to run for office. I know what the law is. These are yes or no questions. Should we allow noncitizens to run for office . Uphold thehould constitution. Should we allow noncitizens to make Campaign Contributions to political candidates . No. Should we allow noncitizens to vote in our elections . No. Same questions, should we allow noncitizens to run for office . Is he still with us . I am. Thank you, congressman. , we native american leader have a history of not being considered citizens. Sir, i am asking you a straightforward yes or no question. Should noncitizens be allowed to vote . Should they be allowed to run for office or make Campaign Contributions . I would defer to the constitution. What the constitution says. Thank you for that. Native american heritage, so i appreciate you being here. I would also ask that to mr. Thomas. Should we allow i think everybody will say no. Is that 30 say . That fair to say . I think so. If we do not allow them to run for office or make Campaign Contributions and do not allow them to vote, why would we count them for proportionate particularly considering the transient nature of so many of them . 20 are here for less than five years, over to money and people, millionting over two collegenot counting noncitizens and guestworkers. Does it make sense we would count them when so many of them will not be here . That would be so disruptive of our system of apportionment that we literally would deny representation to citizens who are here legally. Could you respond to that . I agree with you, they should not be included in apportionment. If they cannot vote, which i do not believe they should, if they cannot make Campaign Contributions are run for office, there is no reason to include them in apportionment. I might point out in 2015 Congressional Research service did a study saying apportionment after the 2010 census had been based on citizen population where they included noncitizens in the louisiana, missouri, montana, North Carolina, ohio an virginia would today have additional seat in the u. S. House of representatives. Toi want to suspend my time ask how much time 24 seconds. We will be liberal with that. You are always very kind to me and i am grateful. The reason we do not allow noncitizens to participate in our elections is because it could have a dilatory us impact deletorious to represent ourselves as a republic. That is the reason we should not count noncitizens for apportionment. Because it will have a very negative impact on our ability to continue this great experiment in representative government. I again thank the chairman for extending my time. Your kindness is noted and appreciated. Thank you for those interesting questions. I will recognize myself for my five minutes. Director thompson, i want to start with you. Cavalierle seem to be at least to my ears about losing 3 of the population in a census count. How many people is 3 of the American Population . Now theresman, right 350 Million People in the United States. 3 would be millions of people. Around 10 Million People. Dir. Thompson if you look at our committee, i think 10 Million People is more than 16 of the states represented in our committee. I saw alabama would be left. Dakota, kentucky, south south carolina, tennessee, texas, West Virginia, wisconsin, the district of columbia, on and on. Deal, not seem like a big but of course we know lots of elections are settled by 3 . What do you think about the proposition that a group of decides in these states . 10 million is more than the combined population of tennessee, north dakota. What do you make of the proposition that it is no big deal and we should blow the whistle and stop counting and run the risk that millions might not be counted . I think that miss thateally bad to many people, especially at the national level, and i would say it wouldnt be the same in every state. It would vary considerably. The issues at greatest risk chairman raskin chairman raskin it would hit all of our states. Dir. Thompson it would affect every state, some more than others. For those states with low completion rates, i think they are at great risk right now. Chairman raskin let me follow up with this. I feel like we have been speaking past each other today the way we sometimes do, but most of the experts we have heard from, as well as this document that the chair referred to that was released by the 3, it bureau from august says the Census Bureau needs more time to do an accurate count. Our colleagues on the others of the ill come back and say we shouldnt be counting undocumented aliens. Isnt that changing the subject . Regardless of where you stand in terms of statutory law on their argument that in future censuses undocumented aliens should not be counted for the first time in american history, regardless of your stance on that, isnt that an irrelevant distraction from what we are talking about today, which is whether the Census Bureau needs more time to count millions of americans who may be lost if we dont give an extension . Chairman raskin i think that is the interpretation you are making, congressman. Chairman raskin its definitely the interpretation i am making, but i am saying, is there anything logically connected between the two . I could go to some of the other witnesses who might feel free to opine on that. I dont know. Let me continue. Lets see. The Census Bureau document that was referenced by chairwoman 3, and was dated august census officials warned commerce secretary wilbur ross that the push to deliver census data before december 31 would cause Data Products to be negatively impacted. They said that the loss of activities eliminated under the new schedule would reduce accuracy. It would create risk for serious errors not being discovered in the data. Mr. Mihm, let me come to you. Analyses independent showed that the compressed procedures in the midst of this accuracywould reduce and create the risk of serious errors not being discovered. Mr. Mihm yes, sir. We are concerned from the pressure put to get out of the field, their reduction from one month, october to the end of september, and the reduction of 150 days to 90 days to do the processing. Both of those, either one of them would be a difficult left. The two of them together could be an extraordinary one for the Census Bureau. You were mentioning about the 10 million. Obviously, the salient point is it is not evenly distributed across the country. If it were, we could probably live with it, and census geeks like mr. Thompson and myself would worry about it, but the problem is it is not evenly disturbing did. It is disproportionate in certain communities, geographic and demographic areas, so that is the big challenge in terms of distribution of federal funds. Chairman raskin i got you. We arent going to lose an entire state, but we could have a state lose an entire Congressional District, and it could affect state legislative redistricting. Let me ask you before i turn it do you. Comer agree the contested question about whether people should be counted even if they cant vote like undocumented people or children or prisoners, that that question doesnt need to be resolved in order to deal with the analytically distinct question of whether the Census Bureau needs more time to count all americans . Mr. Mihm the short answer to that is yes, sir. A support agency to the congress. We dont have a position on the policy question of who should be included. Chairman raskin its a separate issue. I appreciate that. Chairwoman maloney congressman ruda is now recognized. Mr. Comer wanted to defer to another Democratic Congressman. We can hear you. Know,ssman ruda as we the impact of the census are wide reaching. Data affects congressional representation and the allocation of trillions in federal funding. Earlier this year, we learned the damage that could be done to our communities by just a 1 undercount. In orange county, my district, we learned there is a 1 undercount of low income students. 250,000ould lose over in federal funding. In a 1 undercount of low income workers, and means a loss of approximately 160,000 in federal funding for job training programs, apprenticeship programs, and career counseling. Rushing to complete the census and eliminating crucial data could have real consequences for students and workers across the country. Its not just the distribution of federal funds that could be impacted by an incomplete 2020 census. The area that has the most devastating effect is on american businesses, and the Business Community has come out in favor of extending the statutory deadline for completing this census. In an august letter, 87 business groups and companies wrote that population and Demographic Data from the census is vital to businesses across america to promote economic development, identify potential customers, and create jobs. It went on to say that rushing the census would drastically undermined the quality of the data we rely on so dearly and harm every state, every business, and every industry in the country relying upon resulting data. I ask unanimous consent to have this letter entered into the record. Chairwoman maloney without objection. This letterrouda specifically mentions the America Community survey and Economic Census as two programs on which it directly depends. Is the data used for both of these programs . Dir. Thompson the data is used somewhat for the Economic Census, but it is critical for the American Community survey to be fully representative. The census data are carried forward each year in terms of population estimates, and those data are used to make sure the American Community survey is representative. If the census data were to have a 10 undercount, for example, that would be carried forward, and that 10 representation would be reflected in the American Community survey for 10 years. if we dontouda get this right, businesses across the United States, Small Businesses who are relying upon the quality of this data be incorrect would be making Business Decisions that could be wrong because the data is wrong, which could cost cities and states millions of dollars in tax revenue . In addition, it could put these companies at risk of making poor decisions. Is that correct . Dir. Thompson that is correct. Uda thats why chambers of commerce from across the country, the California Chamber of commerce, the ,innesota chamber of commerce joint of this letter to express their concerns about a rush and inaccurate census. Governor lewis, would it be fair that a rushed census stands to have a negative impact on businesses in your communities . Gov. Lewis yes, definitely. For the indian community, we rely on our businesses for 75 of our community, and that was especially critical as we are moving through the pandemic. This would have a devastating effect on the nationbuilding economy we are trying to maintain through this pandemic, and of course, the numbers are going to be for a decade. This would have a devastating effect, not only to the indian community, but tribes across Indian Country. I would confirm with the other witness. It would have a devastating effect on North Carolina. Our Business Community relies on accurate census data in regards , houses, and plans for growth in our community. It would have a devastating impact. just anotheruda manufactured crisis by this administration, and i will yield the back. Congressman Mahoney Maloney im going to another Democratic Congress person. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, you are recognized. Please unmute yourself. Shes working on it. Schultz oman wasserman im sorry. That wasnt the problem. [indiscernible] ok. Thank you so much. Florida, we face an uphill battle confronting the Trump Administrations focus on minority communities. Florida ranks 43rd among states in terms of population in new. The self response in south Florida Communities are not near of what they were in 2010. Especially in the aftermath of the covid19 pandemic. The gao raised concerns about the risks created by the late Design Changes to the 2020 census. In particular, the report states we have previously reported that Design Changes can ,ntroduce new risks implementation of untested procedures, and continuing challenges such as covid19 would accelerate census counts. In your view, was the decision in august to cut a month out of Field Operations and two months out of data operations a Design Change . Dir. Thompson yes. Congresswoman Wasserman Schultz what are some of the risks of the Census Bureau making these changes in august . The reduction in fieldwork by one month and the reduction in over 60 days of the processing at the back end to make sure there are no errors or problems with the data that could be corrected before the apportionment counts go out. Those were the two major areas we expressed concern. Schultz oman wasserman by contrast, i want to ask about why congressional action to extend the deadline is a different subject. Mr. Mihm im sorry, maam. I didnt hear the first part of your question. Congresswoman Wasserman Schultz what i said is by contrast, i would ask why congressional action to extend the statutory deadline is a different type of change . [indiscernible] certainly, the Census Bureau has told us, to the extent they would get additional time, that was certainly the plan they had been operating on until the end of july, very first part of august, that they would have an additional four months. That would allow them to be into the field through the end of october as planned. It would allow them to have the process run into january as they had planned on that. Congresswoman Wasserman Schultz it sounds like youre more detailed answer is no. [indiscernible] the late Design Changes, the ones that cause concern are those that and up compressing the time or introduce new and untested procedures. To the extent that they have some more time, that would give them the opportunity to go through the data, to have additional time in the field, and that had been the plan the Census Bureau had been operating under for a number of months. Congresswoman Wasserman Schultz [indiscernible] im sorry, congresswoman. I didnt catch what you said. Congresswoman Wasserman Schultz [indiscernible] chairwoman maloney debbie, we cant even hear you. You are going in and out. I think the gentlewomans time has expired. Congresswoman miller, you are now recognized. Can youwoman miller hear me . Maloney yes, we can. Congresswoman miller thank you for being here today to discuss the census. Could have been a representation of how difficult it can be to get an accurate count. Four of my 18 counties in the district have 100 of the population living in hard to count neighborhoods. Ive spent the last two years visiting each of these counties, and i can tell you from firsthand experience how rural they are. West virginia is one of the states that is a Success Story for the Census Bureau, and their nonresponse followup operation, after having one of the lowest self Response Rates in the country, West Virginia has had over 97 of all households enumerated, ranking second among all the states, with 21 days left to finish the enumeration, the census workers in my state are doing a fantastic job, and i applaud the Census Bureau for diligently completing this duty in a particularly difficult area to count. However, instead of giving the Census Bureau the time needed to implement its strategy, this committee seems to have spent our hearings attacking our president and his constitutional and lawful actions to protect the census, our elections, and accurately apportioning congressional seats. It would directly affect me. American citizens deserve fair and accurate representation, and it is the duty of the federal government to ensure apportionment is completed correctly. Counting People Living in the United States illegally in apportionment is an attack on our Democratic Institutions and seeks to take away the voice of the american citizens. I strongly support what President Trump has done in trying to protect the sanctity of our apportionment process, and i urge my colleagues to stop hindering the census any further. Why should americans be concerned about vote dilution . Vote dilution is something that all americans should be concerned about. Filed all of the cases under the Voting Rights act over the last three decades, in particular when it comes to redistricting, have been vote dilution cases. We dont want the votes of individual americans, no matter their race or ethnic background, from being diluted and devalued and to have less of a value than that of other voters, but that is exactly what happens when you include noncitizens, when you include aliens, not only in the apportionment process but also the redistricting process. This is particularly true. You can see the importance of this in the lawsuits that have republicanby both and democratic justice departments to enforce section two of the Voting Rights act. When they are coming up with a remedy which is often a majorityminority district, they try to use citizen voting age population, because otherwise they arent going to be able to put in an effective remedy. That is why it is important that the population count, yes, be accurate, but we also have an accurate count of citizens and noncitizens. Miller hown did the president s actions mitigate vote dilution . Hes issued two memorandums. One is directing the executive branch to forward all records on the status to this it Census Bureau. That we arent going to count aliens in this country illegally, but they should not be included in the apportionment process. It is within his Statutory Authority. Quickly inst say response to an earlier comment, the term illegal alien is the correct legal term. That is a term used in federal immigration law, and its a term used in u. S. Supreme court decisions. Congresswoman miller what issues do you see arising because the administration was blocked from asking the Citizenship Question . Will theg issue is, records produced by the executive branch produce enough information to give us an accurate count of the noncitizens in the country . From everything ive seen, i think the answer to that is yes. Its amazing how much data and information the federal government has on the American Population already and individual citizens and noncitizens. The initial estimate is they would have information on citizenship status for 97 of the publishing, and they have been working to get that to as close as 100 as possible. Chairman maloney the gentlelady yields back. Congressman sartre, you are now recognized. appreciatesarbanes the hearing. Obviously, a number of us as you can tell are alarmed at the prospect of shortening this time for the nonresponse followup from the end of october to the end of september, and also the transmission, collection and transmission of apportionment data, where we and the Trump Administration in its original posture felt extending those deadlines to the end of april and end of july respectively made a lot more sense. Heres the question. Help me understand this, mr. Thompson. Of keeping downside the collection or the response effort underway through the end what is theand downside or risk associated with the extension in terms of the apportionment data being collected and analyzed and transmitted at those later dates in 2021 . Anybody point to a significant risk or downside to allow for the nonresponse followup to continue through the end of october, or to allow the apportionment data to be transmitted at those later dates. Mr. Thompson, do you see any significant negatives associated with that . Dir. Thompson dir. Thompson thank you, congressman. No, i dont see any negatives. That in fact was the initial plan the census burea, career staff had the Census Bureau career staff had planned. Congressman sarbanes do you see any negatives for extending that . Mr. Mihm i agree with mr. Thompson that that had been the bureaus plan to extend the months, and was behind a request for legislative relief. The only downside or something we have urged the bureau to make sure they consider is the notion of recall bias. The farther you get away from census day, the problems of memory and recollection about where people may have been residing and who else is in the household may become an issue. We think that ought to be looked into, but as mr. Thompson said, the bureaus plan was to have that additional time. That was on balance the appropriate way to go. Sarbanes the original timeline in terms of collecting the data, having the questionnaires responded to was the end of october, so it is certainly within the window of what was needed from an accuracy standpoint. Movement from the end of october to the end of september, correct . Mr. Mihm yes, sir. Congressman sarbanes if you look at the ledger, the side of the ledger that says downsides and risks associated with carrying the followup effort through to the end of october and making sure the apportionment data goes according to that more extended deadline, under that column in terms of risks and downsides to that approach, there is nothing in that column. And the other column in terms of risks and negatives and challenges posed by trying to ave these deadlines up in significant way, you have a whole litany of things that mr. Thompson, you have detailed. Mr. Mihm you detailed some of those as well. Its not even a close call in terms of how we should be handling it, and its clearly a call the administration recognized when it initially asked for that extension in terms of the apportionment data. Sometimes, censuses are in a president ial election, and sometimes, they are not. This is in the midst of a president ial election. Whenever you have that, the day after the election, regardless of the case if the incumbent stays in or there is a new president coming in, theres is always a lot of changeover of personnel. People who have been there for four years decide to move on, etc. It strikes me that this is the andt time to be taking time flexibility away from the Census Bureau in view of that particular dynamic. We all of those reasons, need to keep that deadline for the response followup. We need to have that extended through the end of october, and we need the collection of the apportionment data and its transition to be extended into 2021, which is what we are trying to do to make sure the census is conducted in a fair and accurate way. I yield back my time. Congresswoman maloney congressman comber, you are now recognized. My questionsomer mr. Referred to [indiscernible] you are an expert on constitutional and Voting Rights law. Census bureau staff have told the committee and transcribed briefings that as of now, the 2020 census can be completed accurately by september 30. This staff can ensure an accurate census. I wish we would support the hard work of the men and women of the Census Bureau. This is a coordinated assault on the 2020 census with the democrats and allies suing the administration. Californianorthern issued a temporary injunction preventing the administration from executing a complete census count by september 30. Are you aware of this . I am. Congressman i do not. Was goinge judge outside of her very limited jurisdiction in her particular district in california. Has strictent deadlines for providing account to the president and filed to the states. Enacted in the president has not signed legislation given these deadlines. What legal basis is there to challenge the current statute when congress is not active in changing the statutory deadline . I do not think there is one. I think that is why this judge is not acting in a way that is justified but the facts or the law she has in front of her. Judge issues a longerterm injunction, it would mean the senses bureau itself will be invalidating the law. That is right. You see a lot of legal interest in the 2020 senses, including aensus law against heading a Citizenship Question. What did the Supreme Court recently ruled with regard to the constitutionality of a Citizenship Question being asked on a questionnaire . That decision was misinterpreted by a lot of media. The Supreme Court said that it is both constitutional to have a Citizenship Question on the census and that the executive branch as the Statutory Authority to ask a Citizenship Question. The only thing they decided at the end was they had not gone through the correct procedures under the administrative procedure act to explain why they were adding a Citizenship Question. I think that was an error. , you can have a Citizenship Question on the census. Infact, we had one starting 1820. That is a very important point, and that is counter to several of what might colleagues on the others have been saying throughout these hearings. I appreciate you doing that. Do you leave the Supreme Court ruling on administrative process [indiscernible] i think it is very problematic. I agree with the dissent written saidarence thomas when he was the majority majority determined it was constitutionally legal, that should have been the end of the analysis. I think he is right about that. One last question. The decision say for [indiscernible] thinkhink it does, and i it is a misinterpretation of the apa. The American Community survey, which the Census Bureau sends out each year, it currently has a Citizenship Question on it. There have been so many different segments between the republicans and democrats on this congressional reinforcement issue. I personally supported it. It is a is it a fair statement to say [indiscernible] tending toward congressional saying that sanctuary cities would be afforded rewarded with more representation. Yes, that is clearly the case. That is a big difference between the republicans on this committee and democrats on this committee. I appreciate your testimony here today i think you again for being here. With that, i go back the remainder of my time. Congresswoman spire, you are not recognize. Thank you, madam chair. I think that old adage about not changing the spots on a leopard applies here. From januaryseen from trump from his january 2016 but he refused to make that apparent to the American People to his efforts cdc,dermine the fda, the and the Intelligence Community and spend their decisionmaking to his interests has taken many professionalre in positions within our various departments. Either they become whistleblowers or they been to the president s wishes. The fact that on august 3 a memo to secretary ross is provided that says the accuracy and completion of the census will be jeopardized if we speed up this process should give all of us because that might colleagues on the republican side feel compelled not to focus on what the issue of the day is but on a and reapportionment. The processing has taken 140180 days. This administration will reduce it to 92 days. , in your analysis, is cutting 60 days out of Data Processing schedule going to increase the risk of the inaccuracy and incompleteness of the census . The shorter answer is yes. One of the things to keep in mind. Mr. Thompson talked about this earlier is the importance of the subject matter review process within the Census Bureau. This is where experts that know the data within individual states have an opportunity to step back and see if there are any anomalies. To the sex ratios look bad . Is the repopulation change that cannot be explained . There were 46 reruns that they had to do of state data out of 52 states and territories in 2010. They also use this opportunity to clean up the data. One of the things they do is they look where there are multiple responses from the same household. That is an important part of their Data Strategy or making sure they get complete and accurate data. Had 14 million Housing Units that had to be deduplicated. These are not just numbers along the margin taking place. These are very important steps. Much of the Data Processing and cleanup there at the end as to be sequential in nature. The of it can be done at same time, but a lot of it has to be done sequential. This times puts compression does increase the risk. That being the case, what is the motivation in your estimation . Maam, i cannot speak to the motivation. We look at operational decisions or implications of decisions being made and motivations for how and why things get done is beyond my remit. I understand that. I am trying to understand why we want the census data relied on for the next 10 years to be , andplete or inaccurate how does that help us, any of us , republicans or democrats alike . Is there a basis on losses will then be brought when it becomes apparent that it is incomplete and inaccurate . What i can speak to is one of the risks in the Data Processing at the end as i have been discussing, there are issues that are the known unknowns. They find something and say this is an anomaly. They need to make sure they could explain it and they try to to do the root cause. The second is could there be things to show up that they will not know in real time, make a determination and try to find out what the story is that we will not find out until we do the post enumeration survey, which is the big check on the accuracy of the data. That does not come out until 2022. There are two buckets of concerns we have there. It could very well be [indiscernible] that is not something i can speak to. In the past, there have been challenges politically and through the courts to the accuracy and completeness of the census data. Madame chair, i cannot tell how much time i have. Has my time expired . The gentlelady you expect. Congressman keller, you are not recognize. Keller. Keller, sorry. Thank you, madame chair. ,ccording to Census Bureau i have of housing been enumerated nationwide. This leaves the rest [indiscernible] of the [indiscernible] remaining data. Can you explain what is meant by Housing Units . What do the figures i just mentioned indicate about how much of the country has been counted . By housing unit, im assuming they are referring to households, whether they are living in a singlefamily residence or an apartment or condominium or Something Like that. Could one housing unit be a building that might have 100 apartments in it . The assume so, but all of figures i have seen on where the Census Bureau is saying how much they have completed, they talk about households. In one housing unit, there might be 100 households. So, as far as Housing Units, do we know how much of the country as been counted as far . S individuals, what percentage 90 Housing Units, but what does that refer to as far as the population being counted . I haveof the figures seen it referred to the number of households that have been counted. Ok. Are there any communities we may have missed . Thehat is a problem that is getting to people in more remote areas of the country, particularly out west, and that is something that they elaborately planned for. A newnot as if that is problem or new phenomenon. It is something the Census Bureau takes into effect. That is something they take into account when they are planning how they are going to carry out the census. [indiscernible] hearings. T [indiscernible] to be someems confusion about that. It is not. The population used for apportionment is not the same total population counted by the u. S. Census bureau. Ok. The Census Bureau is on track to complete operations on time and produce an accurate account. I would like to switch gears. Ihm. Nt to talk to mr. M the area i represent in the commonwealth of pennsylvania would buy census standards be hard to count. I understand technology has played a big part in the 2020 census. Can you speak to how using technology and has there been any takeaways that might inform our Data Collection Going Forward . Think that there is good use of technology on two levels. It is part of the initial theeration that is allowing Internet Option this time around. That has overall been a very positive story that tens of millions of americans used that option in order to respond to the census. That is much cheaper for the Census Bureau in terms of paper and processing and it helps ensure more accurate data. On the backend that is in the follow on where they do not have a response from a household, the enumeratorss, the are using technology so they do not have the paper registers they have they had in the past. This allows them to collect data and get it into the system immediately. Trackingllows easier of the taker productivity, making sure theyre going to wear they are going to where they should be going. There is something called curb stoning. Ismaking sure that pretty much eliminated. The gentlemans time has expired. And q. , you areoman kelly recognized. Chair. K you, madam the wide reaching impact of census data cannot be overstated, but among the most important goals of the census is to accurately determine the apportionment of seats in the house of representatives. It is very important to be clear about something here. This is not about political gains or games. It is not about one party trying to come out on top. Is enshrined in the constitution to make sure every citizen in the United States receives a representation in congress. The urban Institute Release protections that 4 Million People could be uncounted and 2020 census and can lead to the wars undercount of black and latino populations in the United States since 1990. At the time the projections were released, your quoted in an article saying these horrific estimates may be a little bit on the conservative side. Given all that has happened since those projections were released in 2019, do you think the Census Bureau faces a higher risk and undercount in black and latino communities . Opinion thate there is a great risk that people in all communities, including black and latino will see undercounts undercounts that were larger than in previous censuses. Why do you think communities of color are often undercounted in census data . If you look at the current situation, you notice in the low self responding areas the united ,tates census tracts tracks the black and latino populations are more represented in those tracks. They are overrepresented in those low responded responsive census tracts. They were to get a complete count for those communities will be harder than it is in other committees because there is a much larger not a much larger nonresponse workload to carry out. Consequences of being undercounted in terms of congressional representation . Forever abouton the importance of the census, but it is issued for so many important components of our democracy, including representation, allocation of funds, planning for business by making sure surveys are represented. Undercount between your underrepresented and you are not receiving your full share of those benefits. Right, and i know in my area is 1400 per person undercounted every year for 10 years. In addition to congressional representation, census data is determined to use local boundaries for things Like City Councils and school boards, correct . Congresswoman, that is correct. For populations undercounted they not only stand to lose a congressional state seat but also at the local level as well, correct . That is correct. So black and red communities brown communities have a lot to lose if we are not counted. I just want to thank you, mr. Thompson. The stakes could not be higher. Founders knew we should not risk depriving citizens of the representation guaranteed to them by the constitution. We should give the Census Bureau the time they need to conduct a complete and accurate census. With that, i yield back. You. Ank i am filling in for chair maloney. I recognize myself for five minutes. Knowf the things that we is discount is extremely 10 households4 in have yet to be counted. This will likely lead to an undercount to historically undercount of populations, immigrants of color, and urban areas. Communities like the one i represent are to be undercounted. My Congressional District so far is only at 50 . Self Response Rate and enumeration rate combined, so i am extremely concerned. The people in my district are also concerned. Despite four former Census Bureau directors warning us that in early deadline would result in an incomplete enumeration in many areas across the country, the Trump Administration has dramatically accelerated the census for vertical gains. This many to be at three top officials from the Census Bureau. The First Official stated, more time is always a good thing. The second official stated, i quote, anytime you have more time, it reduces risk, and that will have reduced our risk. The third official said, absolutely would ask whether he agreed with the first two officials. Doquestion is, mr. Thompson, you agree with these officials . I know those officials pretty well, and i agree with the statements. Why is that . Now, there simply is not enough time in my opinion to complete a really good and accurate Data Collection and there is not enough time to process the data after the Data Collection ends and do it in an accurate way. Variousthose rays concerns, and not raise very serious concerns and i do tell those i might testimony. Declaration, the associate director of the 2020 census stated that if a federal court to stop the bureau from proceeding with its latest schedule, we would evaluate all changes we have made for the reply and schedule i determined which to reverse or modify. We would go through each and every aspect of remaining operations and determine how best to use the remaining time to madura maximize the accuracy and completeness of results. The Census Bureau sounds ready to on price it schedule. As Congress Gives it the time it needs, it can decide how to do that. Mr. Thompson, do you have confidence in the Census Bureau has the ability to make use of the extension if past . I think the Census Bureau could make great use of it. Censuses,past three the bureau as needed five months portioningly deliver at a redistricting data. Is that correct . At least five months. At least five months. What is the preferred amount of time . I think thecensus, preferred amount of time is the time the bureau developed when expensingthe basis of extensive planning and research, which in this case would be five months. Thompson, white would be important for the bureau drive adequate processing time for data . If you do not have adequate amount of time, the problem is you can make computer errors. They would probably carry through into the reapportionment , the redistricting. There is a high risk of computer errors. I appreciate your answers. One of the thing we heard from my colleagues on the other side of the break ill is the other side of the aisle is there, leading two things. Undocumented immigrants should not be counted too. We should not extend the deadline. If we extend the deadline to get in the republicans and the president are trying to back out undocumented immigrants, i would not understand why they would not extend the deadline unless they would want american citizens not to be counted as well. I have suspicions the motivations of this administration when it comes down to the Citizenship Question was rejected by the Supreme Court. Judge roberts rejected it flatly as something that was contrived. With that, i urge my colleagues on the other side of the break aisle ide of the. I yield my own time i would like to recognize ms. Porter for five minutes. Ms. Porter . Yes, hello, i apologize. Do not worry about it. Technical difficulties. Ms. Porter, you are recognized for five minutes. Mihm, is that it would be important to get Accurate Accounts of College Students. At the Professor University of california irvine before being elected to congress , and my district is home to a university with more than 35,000 students as well as a number of smaller colleges. Where are College Students normally counted . Normallye students are counted at their university, either in their dorm or if they are living off campus. What time of year . It would be at or around census day. This time it wouldve been in the spring. Around april [indiscernible] when campus is shut down and students went home and were not contacted. If we are missing a bunch of graduating seniors, that could be as much as 25 of students in school. To we feel if we fail calculate seniors . Maam. Sorry we can adapt missing them or end up having them double counted both at the university and back home. We will not know that until much later. You said annual report that the Census Bureau has requested administrative data from about 1400 colleges in larger towns and cities. Report, publish that only 51 of colleges have agreed to share that information. Where is that number now . I do not have an update on that now but i will check and get that to your office. A couple of weeks ago we were at half of all colleges being counted. I went to turn to mr. Johnson now and as if there is not an extension of the census, what does that mean for hard to count areas . You, congresswoman. That will be the areas would be affected the most by not allowing the Census Bureau the proper time that they requested initially to complete their work. Those communities have lower Response Rates and therefore they have a greater amount of work to do and not a response followup. That is with the greatest challenges are in getting a complete and accurate count. Those communities would be affected the most. I think some people it might be surprised to learn about what are hard to count areas. We often think of them as rural areas, places without broadband access, places where there might be language barriers. I want to show people an example. S is a picture of california. Hard to count . There are certain rural areas getigsur that are hard to to. I have been there for a while. There are portions of it that would be hard to count. So the self Response Rate in 35 . Beautiful area was california are almost 100 spanishspeaking. [indiscernible] i also wanted to ask you about does this look like a hard to count area to you . Sans sent clemente clemente, california. There are areas in Southern California that show up on the bureaus hard to count area. I would have to study a little more of each of that. Helps immigrants and that explain why the Response Rate is below 60 . If they do not do counted the local School District loses registration. This is the university of california irvine. Is this a hard to count area . I would think any area with a large student population will face challenges and getting an accurate enumeration simply because of over disappointment displacement of College Students. That is one component of what is going to be difficult. Help in extra time these hard to count areas with something that is an accurate count . It certainly would. Thank you very much. I yield back. Thank, member porter. I recognize [indiscernible] thank you very much, mr. Chairman. I hope i can be heard at this time. Emily available and i available am i available . I have her discussion about the plan and operations related to rural areas and toot native american tribes. James tucker, vice chair of the u. S. National Census Advisory Committee said we are probably looking ahead to make historic undercount. It is not going to be enough time. Census bureaunior officials said they are struggling. The associate director for Field Operations stated in india country, particularly montana, arizona, new mexico those are the three primary states where we have challenges where specific governments have shut preventthe public to the horrible outcome of coronavirus. My first question is to you, governor lewis. You have given testimony to us. Tribal nations are considered hard to count even when a census is not taking place during a pandemic. Can you explain why that is . Yes, first of all, [indiscernible] there was discussion about technology and the Internet Option. Leasts not the case, at for Many Community where we are still trying to distribute , andband infrastructure this was brought to a more critical point during this pandemic as well. Know howor, do you many families are without the percentage of families without broadband or even spotty broadband . 2200 households on the community, and we have identified hundreds of households that do not have access to broadband because of their location. We are south of phoenix but we are in a very remote area in the desert. Not only notified connectivity but the infrastructure available for broadband. That has hampered our areas as well. Reality righthe now on indian reservations. It has to do with street addresses versus po boxes. We have a number that our post office boxes that are members have versus street addresses. Those been a barrier for you have to because have that geographic locator number. If you do not have a street address, it is hard and that has contributed in the past to the best undercounting of native americans. Even early on in this latest 2020 census, some of my enumerators have come, and they just put the information on the and they have been blown away. House. E near their those are the realities. Number of those two logistical barriers. Listen, i understand. The Virgin Islands, we are just now it still giving street names to areas where people live. Boxes. Have post office there are streets that are not named. Unfortunately for those of us at the smaller territories, we are not even able to do the census online. There is no online dropbox for the Virgin Islands or go on or samoa. Or american an area that has the inequities we have in federal funding is going to be even greater. My time is about to run out, and i wanted to ask mr. Thompson, why are areas that are rural hard to count during a normal census and what are the countsed risk to the real under a truncated schedule . Thank you, congresswoman. Rural areas have unique challenges. You have two have a deep understanding of the rural area to properly counted. You need to understand what is a road, a driveway, a logging trail for example. You have to be accepted by the rural community. You have to understand how to approach people in the right way. There are a lot of unique features that rural areas have debate many of them hard to count. Thank you. And, it takes time. Overnight. Happen it takes a lot of hard work, because you have to travel over greater distances and the like. Thank you. I recognize mr. Lee for five minutes. Thank you i know so many of my colleagues are politicizing this and making this about apportionments and representation in congress. I someone who represents the third poorest Congressional District in the country, it is about the federal money that gets distributed and the fact that even during the pandemic, if anything it exposes the fact that my district, my state saw 40 of the africanAmerican Population impacted directly by covid with jeffs. With deaths. The number of my neighbors make up 40 even though they make up the total population of the state at 15 . State chip programs are so critically important to my district. I want to be honest. I listen to many of my colleagues, and i am taken aback by the fact that we are getting asked a lot about our undocumented immigrant neighbors , apportionment, and help Congressional Districts are made up but we never talk about the people that rely on this data and this information for their services. When you think about mobile testing during covid, they look at the census. Public health research, to look at the census. Class sizes, they look at the census. Director thompson, when they decide to shorten this, does it not impact majority communities of color . Those are some of the communities that are certainly affected as the previous congresswoman noted. Rural areas can also be particularly challenging. That would be for both people of color and people that are not of color. Hard to count communities, which contain people of color are certainly affected by a shorten timeframe. What i hear from my colleagues, i do not think they want people who look like me counted. Some of the most vulnerable populations represent, those are the people that will be left out. What i am hearing from mike colleaguesis my shortening the time it is ok. Brown and black folks are not going to get counted. [indiscernible] do you feel that way . Congresswoman, definitely. What will be lost . What will be lost are numbers from our underserved communities , and it just to go into some of the time frame, i am aware that the Census Bureau will generally return to areas where anomalies are in the count. Given the condensed timeframe due,porting is to do the bureau only have to qualify for Quality Control instead of the normal six month period. Common sense indicates that there is not adequate time for a return to verify accounts in undercounted areas to perform Quality Control and provide apportionment and redistricting reports in three months. But you are not even thinking about Congressional Districts. If are thinking about resources. You are thinking about how do i make sure my folks are not left out. Most of my neighbors, my residence are not asking me about that. They are saying we need to make sure we get counted because we know there are thousands of dollars that come to our city that we do not get access to when we do not get counted. About their worry services, at their nutrition services. I am thinking about my children, our children going to the schools both on the reservation and off the reservation that will be affected as well from this undercounted. And for 10 years, we will be living with this drastic undercounting. Ms. Stacy, if you are still youre being asked a lot of these questions about constitutional law. The first thing i kept thinking about is i am sorry . [indiscernible] ms. Corliss, i am so sorry. Most of the questions asked of werearlier in the hearing very alarming. I went to ask you one very directly. Do you think people that look like you and i that it is intentional on the part of reducing the timeline that it is intentional to make sure people that look like you and i are not counted . I do think it is somewhat intentional. Has been impactful in making sure black and brown people are counted as well as the Great Pyramid to make an outreach that does not allow messengers to build appropriate relationship effort to reduce our time to connect with Community Members is intentional. Thank youu so much so much. I yield. I went to take a moment to thank our witnesses for testifying today. Without objection, members will have five legislative days to submit a range of questions is questions for the witnesses to the chair. I asked our witnesses to respond as promptly as you are able to. This hearing is now adjourned. Should be right around the corner. Since that hearing, a federal court in the Southern District of new york moved to block mps latest effort instructing commerce secretary wilbur ross to collect data on undocumented immigrants in order to exclude them from population totals in the finals and the threejudge panel found the president s memo was unlawful and violated the constitutional responsibility to count the whole number of persons in each state. You can read more at politico. Com. This morning, American Conservative Union share matt schlapp chair matt talks about the reelection strategy. Washington examiner political reporter salena zito looks at the 2020 battleground states. An republican strategist rick tyler discusses the future of the